History being made!
Just watched Duke beat Michigan St., handing coach K his 903rd career victory to pass his old mentor Bobby Knight and put him at #1.
Congratulations coach K. :cheers:
Haven't seen any NCAA basketball on bar TVs here, but I share your goodwill even if I don't know what it means. :)
Yeah, that is very cool. Heard the end of the game on the radio driving back from my son's practice.
Coach K is a d-bag. And Duke is the most righteously despised franchise in all major sports.
Leaving for NYC in a couple hours for Coaches vs. Cancer tournament. Taking Jake with me, it will be his first time at a college basketball game...
Ah the sweet smell of envy.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 16, 2011, 01:06:38 PM
Ah the sweet smell of envy.
Oh please. People don't despise UCLA, and they have more NCs than anyone. They don't despise North Carolina, or Kansas, or Florida.
Has nothing to do with envy, and everything to do with Coach K and the overwhelming douchebaggery that is Duke.
I imagine if they were not as successful as they are, nobody would care though.
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 01:04:08 PM
Leaving for NYC in a couple hours for Coaches vs. Cancer tournament. Taking Jake with me, it will be his first time at a college basketball game...
:thumbsup: I'm taking Tommy to his first college hoops game in a week & a half. I've taken him to 6 or 7 college football games, but hadn't gotten him to a basketball game yet.
Going to see Arizona play St. John's?
Quote from: Valmy on November 16, 2011, 01:19:42 PM
Going to see Arizona play St. John's?
Yep, and then the finals or consolation game the next day.
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 01:13:42 PM
Has nothing to do with envy, and everything to do with Coach K and the overwhelming douchebaggery that is Duke.
I agree. Your view does have everything to do with Coach K. He now has the most victories. If only Arizona had such a douche :(
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 16, 2011, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 01:13:42 PM
Has nothing to do with envy, and everything to do with Coach K and the overwhelming douchebaggery that is Duke.
I agree. Your view does have everything to do with Coach K. He now has the most victories. If only Arizona had such a douche :(
:lol: I don't think Berkut's irritation with Coach K has to do with Coach K's victory total (I remember hearing him hate on Coach K and his douchebaggery back when he wasn't the leader in wins). I also don't think Berkut would swap Olsen's years for Coach K's.
Personally, i don't have a problem with Krzyzewski. To have 11 final-four appearances in 31 years is impressive. He's no Wooden, and never will be, but he gets results and hasn't been touched by scandal.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 16, 2011, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 01:13:42 PM
Has nothing to do with envy, and everything to do with Coach K and the overwhelming douchebaggery that is Duke.
I agree. Your view does have everything to do with Coach K. He now has the most victories. If only Arizona had such a douche :(
That makes no sense, which I guess has become pretty normal.
Coach K was a douche even before he was the leader in wins. I imagine now Dukedom will be even worse, because we will have to listen Dookie V. spooging about that in every single broadcast as well, but I've thought Duke was contemptible long before he reached 903.
And I would not trade Arizona's legacy for Duke ever. Arizona has nowhere near that level of success, and nowhere near that level of douchebaggedness either.
Actually, Arizona football did have almost as big an asshat as Coach K - Stoops certainly acted like a great big crybaby just like K. Never had anywhere near that kind of success with it though...
Your hatred runs deep that is certain. But that only means the envy has been their for years. This is just the lastest reason.
What makes K a douche, Throbby?
When I think of coaches who are douches I think of guys who are constantly screaming at their players, like Pitino and Whatshisface at Kentucky.
Maybe all Italian coaches since Rollie Massimino. :hmm:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2011, 02:37:41 PM
What makes K a douche, Throbby?
When I think of coaches who are douches I think of guys who are constantly screaming at their players, like Pitino and Whatshisface at Kentucky.
Maybe all Italian coaches since Rollie Massimino. :hmm:
He is a total prima donna. Screams at officials, demands that he gets calls, acts like an asshole in press conferences, and just the entire Duke sense of entitlement and "Oh, look at us, we are so white and such winners! Aren't we special!"
Coach K taking a season off when his team sucked doesn't help. Coach K being one of the biggest whiners towards officials there is in college basketball, and largely getting away with it, sure doesn't help either.
I hate that he is held up as this paragon of "the right way" when if you actually pay attention, he is a complete asshole. He treats people like shit, but only when he is in a position where they cannot harm him. He is a complete phony.
Some of it is because it is just plain fun to hate Duke - and they always get the most easily despised players in college basketball, just the little prima donna twerps like Reddick and Wojo and Laetner.
And finally, of course, there is the media which fawns all over Coach and the precious Dookies every year. Vitale alone accounts for at least 30% of my contempt for Duke. Why do I have to hear about Duke in games that Vitale is covering that don't even fucking involve Duke?
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
He is a total prima donna. Screams at officials, demands that he gets calls, acts like an asshole in press conferences,
Damn-- there are a lot of douches coaching college basketball, then.
Yeah, it seems to me the coaches who work the officials far outnumber those who don't, and K is not a particularly egregious example of the breed.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2011, 03:00:29 PM
Yeah, it seems to me the coaches who work the officials far outnumber those who don't, and K is not a particularly egregious example of the breed.
But he is - he is well known as being one of the most foul mouthed assholes on the court, at least amongst officials.
There are others like him, of course - his mentor Mr. Knight is a fine example, but the difference is that those others are also well known as being louts. While Coach K is held up as some kind of paragon of class and virtue.
Quote from: derspiess on November 16, 2011, 02:52:39 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
He is a total prima donna. Screams at officials, demands that he gets calls, acts like an asshole in press conferences,
Damn-- there are a lot of douches coaching college basketball, then.
True, but none have perfected the art like Duke and Coach K.
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
And finally, of course, there is the media which fawns all over Coach and the precious Dookies every year. Vitale alone accounts for at least 30% of my contempt for Duke. Why do I have to hear about Duke in games that Vitale is covering that don't even fucking involve Duke?
They know what school drives ratings. They smooch the hand that feeds them.
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 01:40:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 16, 2011, 01:19:42 PM
Going to see Arizona play St. John's?
Yep, and then the finals or consolation game the next day.
Sounds fun...except the weird morning start times. Does this happen every year? Because we have games starting at like midnight and crazy stuff like that this year. Maybe it has always happened and I just missed it but it just seems wrong for some reason.
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 03:07:53 PM
But he is - he is well known as being one of the most foul mouthed assholes on the court, at least amongst officials.
Foul mouthed I can see. I still chuckle when I think of that clip of K yelling "fuck you, Dean."
But I would be interested to know where you picked up that refs consider him an asshole.
Quote from: Valmy on November 16, 2011, 03:12:54 PM
Sounds fun...except the weird morning start times. Does this happen every year? Because we have games starting at like midnight and crazy stuff like that this year. Maybe it has always happened and I just missed it but it just seems wrong for some reason.
The midnight games are usually for the first permitted day of competition.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
The midnight games are usually for the first permitted day of competition.
Midnight practices sure...for the traditional midnight madness.
But yeah this was probably just a gimmick to start the season.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2011, 03:14:58 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 03:07:53 PM
But he is - he is well known as being one of the most foul mouthed assholes on the court, at least amongst officials.
Foul mouthed I can see. I still chuckle when I think of that clip of K yelling "fuck you, Dean."
But I would be interested to know where you picked up that refs consider him an asshole.
You don't watch much Duke basketball, I take it?
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 03:35:12 PM
You don't watch much Duke basketball, I take it?
You take it wrong.
It sounds to me Throbby that when you see K working the refs, and his face scrunches up like a Slavic concentration camp guard and the veins in his head start throbbing like Gary Williams, you think to yourself that it would be particularly unpleasant to be the recipient, and therefore the refs must hate it too.
The worst ref is a ref with a chip on his shoulder. :P
I think the general impression of Duke douchebaggyness(and Berkut's hardly the first person I've seen mention it) most likely stems from the fact that they're both from an academically prestigious school(with all the insufferability that comes with that) and have successful teams. Ivy leaguers don't have much room to put on airs about their sports teams.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2011, 12:57:54 AM
Ivy leaguers don't have much room to put on airs about their sports teams.
Harvard will always have its 1989 Ice Hockey National Championship though.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2011, 12:57:54 AM
I think the general impression of Duke douchebaggyness(and Berkut's hardly the first person I've seen mention it) most likely stems from the fact that they're both from an academically prestigious school(with all the insufferability that comes with that) and have successful teams. Ivy leaguers don't have much room to put on airs about their sports teams.
Stanford often has good teams and they don't seem insufferable.
Stanford has plenty of championship teams in sports nobody cares about. Winning the Pac-10 4 times in 50 years is nothing to crow about. Also, they're in San Francisco, so probably attract a more laid-back student body than most.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2011, 12:57:54 AM
I think the general impression of Duke douchebaggyness(and Berkut's hardly the first person I've seen mention it) most likely stems from the fact that they're both from an academically prestigious school(with all the insufferability that comes with that) and have successful teams. Ivy leaguers don't have much room to put on airs about their sports teams.
Exactly. Envy. They are good on every level - especially their coach.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 17, 2011, 11:57:22 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2011, 12:57:54 AM
I think the general impression of Duke douchebaggyness(and Berkut's hardly the first person I've seen mention it) most likely stems from the fact that they're both from an academically prestigious school(with all the insufferability that comes with that) and have successful teams. Ivy leaguers don't have much room to put on airs about their sports teams.
Exactly. Envy.
That's hardly exactly what I was saying. I'd guess Duke students & alumni are as prone to behave in certain ways because of their school as observers are to misjudge them because of their school.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2011, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 17, 2011, 11:57:22 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2011, 12:57:54 AM
I think the general impression of Duke douchebaggyness(and Berkut's hardly the first person I've seen mention it) most likely stems from the fact that they're both from an academically prestigious school(with all the insufferability that comes with that) and have successful teams. Ivy leaguers don't have much room to put on airs about their sports teams.
Exactly. Envy.
That's hardly exactly what I was saying. I'd guess Duke students & alumni are as prone to behave in certain ways because of their school as observers are to misjudge them because of their school.
You said people hated them because Duke is both great both as an academic institution and a sports institution. Isnt that envy?
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 17, 2011, 12:38:13 PM
You said people hated them because Duke is both great both as an academic institution and a sports institution. Isnt that envy?
I suspect it's not so much how great Duke is but the belief that Duke people try to rub it in their faces more than most.
How so?
From what Berk said he is most upset that others talk about how great Duke is. But if an institution is as great as Duke shouldnt people talk about them?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 17, 2011, 11:50:56 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2011, 12:57:54 AM
I think the general impression of Duke douchebaggyness(and Berkut's hardly the first person I've seen mention it) most likely stems from the fact that they're both from an academically prestigious school(with all the insufferability that comes with that) and have successful teams. Ivy leaguers don't have much room to put on airs about their sports teams.
Stanford often has good teams and they don't seem insufferable.
Indeed. Stanford is far and away more athletically successful than Duke, but they don't come across like a bunch of pretentious douchebags.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 17, 2011, 12:58:31 PM
How so?
From what Berk said he is most upset that others talk about how great Duke is. But if an institution is as great as Duke shouldnt people talk about them?
Right, that is nothing like what I said.
Which of course is pretty "duh" at this point when it comes to you and responding to posts from those you've decided need your special brand of attention.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2011, 11:56:01 AM
Stanford has plenty of championship teams in sports nobody cares about. Winning the Pac-10 4 times in 50 years is nothing to crow about. Also, they're in San Francisco, so probably attract a more laid-back student body than most.
Indeed - nowhere near the level of douchebag that you see out of Duke.
UCLA is at the same prestigious academic level as Duke, and even more success than Duke in basketball, and yet you don't see people hating on UCLA. Because they aren't a bunch of pretentious douchebags led by a self important money grubbing asshole who treats people like shit.
Quote from: Berkut on November 17, 2011, 03:47:34 PM
UCLA is at the same prestigious academic level as Duke, and even more success than Duke in basketball, and yet you don't see people hating on UCLA. Because they aren't a bunch of pretentious douchebags led by a self important money grubbing asshole who treats people like shit.
Really? I bet tons of people hated UCLA when Wooden was still coaching.
Quote from: Valmy on November 17, 2011, 03:50:21 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 17, 2011, 03:47:34 PM
UCLA is at the same prestigious academic level as Duke, and even more success than Duke in basketball, and yet you don't see people hating on UCLA. Because they aren't a bunch of pretentious douchebags led by a self important money grubbing asshole who treats people like shit.
Really? I bet tons of people hated UCLA when Wooden was still coaching.
Perhaps, because some people really do just plain have envy issues.
But I bet it was nothing like the contempt people have for Duke. And of course, Wooden actually was a class act, instead of being an asshole.
Could you imagine Wooden swearing at officials like some kind of howler monkey, or telling reporters they are stupid for asking him questions after they lose a game? Or quitting on his team because they aren't going to win a bunch of games that year, then asking the NCAA to place those losses on your assistant coach rather than your own record?
I don't think so.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2011, 11:56:01 AM
Stanford has plenty of championship teams in sports nobody cares about.
I bet people from Stanford care about them though, and it hasn't turned them into a bunch of insufferable twats.
Quote from: Berkut on November 17, 2011, 03:44:13 PM
Right, that is nothing like what I said.
Poor Berk, the memory is the first thing to go.
QuoteAnd finally, of course, there is the media which fawns all over Coach and the precious Dookies every year. Vitale alone accounts for at least 30% of my contempt for Duke. Why do I have to hear about Duke in games that Vitale is covering that don't even fucking involve Duke?
I suppose your envious hatred of Duke has blown a vessel in your brain.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 17, 2011, 04:24:02 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 17, 2011, 03:44:13 PM
Right, that is nothing like what I said.
Poor Berk, the memory is the first thing to go.
QuoteAnd finally, of course, there is the media which fawns all over Coach and the precious Dookies every year. Vitale alone accounts for at least 30% of my contempt for Duke. Why do I have to hear about Duke in games that Vitale is covering that don't even fucking involve Duke?
I suppose your envious hatred of Duke has blown a vessel in your brain.
Yeah, because a comment that starts with "And finally..." and rhetorically includes "30%' is obviously what I am "most upset" about.
Whatever CC. You keep taking your personal beef from thread to thread, I think I am going to just start ignoring you, it simply isn't worth the effort anymore.
I agree with Berk - his brain blood vessels can handle 1000 times more pressure than Duke puts on them.
Quote from: Berkut on November 17, 2011, 04:38:08 PM
Whatever CC. You keep taking your personal beef from thread to thread, I think I am going to just start ignoring you, it simply isn't worth the effort anymore.
You claimed you never said anything like that. In fact if you back through your anti Duke rants you will refresh your memory as to your hatred of people talking about how great Duke is because in your rather petty view Duke isnt as good as people say they are. It really irritates you the coach K gets all this, in your view undeserved, adulation.
Well you are going to have to live with it. Coach K will be mention for a long time to come now that he has the most wins in history.
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
Some of it is because it is just plain fun to hate Duke - and they always get the most easily despised players in college basketball, just the little prima donna twerps like Reddick and Wojo and Laetner.
This.
Nothing really against Coach K, but the program is just plain fun to hate.
As for those who suggest envy in play - that is part of it - everyone not a Duke fan probably has some moment when their Duke hatred crystalized, and it is probably some moment when some Duke team crushed their team's title hopes. But most fans have many such moments caused by many teams over the years - yet somehow that intangible air of smugness and insufferability that accrues when Duke does it sticks in the craw differently.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 17, 2011, 06:02:48 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
Some of it is because it is just plain fun to hate Duke - and they always get the most easily despised players in college basketball, just the little prima donna twerps like Reddick and Wojo and Laetner.
This.
Nothing really against Coach K, but the program is just plain fun to hate.
As for those who suggest envy in play - that is part of it - everyone not a Duke fan probably has some moment when their Duke hatred crystalized, and it is probably some moment when some Duke team crushed their team's title hopes. But most fans have many such moments caused by many teams over the years - yet someone that intangible air of smugness and insufferability that accrues when Duke does it sticks in the craw differently.
It is because Duke is just that good. Which is a very good thing when one grows up a Duke fan. :D
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 17, 2011, 06:04:44 PM
It is because Duke is just that good.
See that is a good illustration what we are talking about.
Duke hasn't been any better than UNC over the years and Coach K is no greater a legend than Dean Smith. Yet UNC doesn't attract the hate.
Quote from: Berkut on November 17, 2011, 04:22:30 PM
I bet people from Stanford care about them though, and it hasn't turned them into a bunch of insufferable twats.
People from other schools care too, but only if they or a close friend is on the team. Or they're Valmy. I didn't mean nobody literally.
But winning an NCAA volleyball championship isn't the kind of thing likely to make one obnoxious around a water cooler.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 17, 2011, 06:12:45 PM
See that is a good illustration what we are talking about.
Duke hasn't been any better than UNC over the years and Coach K is no greater a legend than Dean Smith. Yet UNC doesn't attract the hate.
But here you are talking about bandwagon fans, who don't have anything to do with the school. The assholes among them will gravitate to Duke (like their NFL counterparts gravitate to the Raiders and their college football counterparts gravitate to Florida State), but I am not sure how responsible you can hold Duke for their ignorant fans. As you say, there is no reason to choose Duke over UNC, and several reasons to do otherwise (UNC being much less elitist and snobbish, despite being as good a school overall). Assholes do like to associate with Duke, though.
So WVU had been 5-1 in their last 6 games, including a win over Georgetown and the loss being a hard-fought game against UCONN. They were poised to jump into both Top 25 polls for next week, so of course last night they lost to a lousy 8-11 St. John's team last night :rolleyes:
More importantly, they needed that game to cushion their conference record which is sure to take a beating with Cuse, Louisville, Marquette, and Notre Dame (twice) coming up in the next few weeks.
Sad that the Big East as we know it will end soon. It's a fun conference to watch, particularly at this point in the season.
My Wright State raiders are a sucky 10-12, but at least Butler is only 12-9. Fuck Butler.
John Wooden rolling over in his grave? (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/magazine/02/28/ucla/index.html)
The rebirth of the Hoosiers pleases me.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 29, 2012, 07:20:19 PM
The rebirth of the Hoosiers pleases me.
Agreed.
Syracuse's switch to the ACC less so.
I was in a quandary about this Saturday's MSU-Ohio game, until I realized that I could hope for MSU to lose, without necessarily hoping that Ohio would win! :D
If Michigan can win out (which they should) and OSU beat MSU, Michigan will have a share of the B10 title for the first time in 26 years. Thank you, Indiana!
And the stars align for Michigan once again; first B10 MBB championship in 26 years.
This is a great time to be a Wolverine!
Wyoming won 20 games, after years of horrible coaching a new (old) face reappeared in Laramie in the person of former Gator's Asst Head Coach Larry Shyatt (who was the Wyooming head coach for one year 13 years ago). Despite losing the top two returning players from last year they did well enough, including one win over a top 25 team.
I am not sure how to handle the rise from basement to mediocrity...
Arizona lost to ASU, of all things.
Hard to be too upset though, having watched the game. Arizona played very well, but ASU just wanted it a lot more - beating Arizona means they have had a successful season, and it showed in their play tonight. Shot 90%+ from the FT line, had some nobody shoot 7/8 threes, and just managed to score no matter what kind of defense was played. I don't know how many times they jacked up a desperate three as the shot clock expired that banked in off the glass. It was baffling.
Arizona I think will make the NCAA tournament anyway...although winning a couple P12 tournament games might not be a bad idea to cement that...
The way the sportswriters and analysts are slamming the Pac-12, only way 4th place Zona makes the Dance is by winning the Tourney.
Quote from: grumbler on March 04, 2012, 08:05:51 PM
And the stars align for Michigan once again; first B10 MBB championship in 26 years.
This is a great time to be a Wolverine!
Glad one of your WVU coaches worked out okay :)
Speaking of WVU, I'm probably less excited this March than I have been for several years. WVU got off to a good start (RPI of 11 and projected 3rd seed in January) but then got chewed up in its second half of Big East play. Had to upset South Florida this past Saturday just to finish 9-9. I think they're in the tourney at this point, but it would definitely help to win at least their first Big East tournament game. With all the freshmen, I guess I can call it a rebuilding year.
I suppose I'll miss the Big East, but then again I think I've already moved on. I found myself watching Big 12 basketball a lot more this season than Big East.
Doing shit like this is just self-destructive stupidity, no other way to put it.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ys-syracuse_basketball_investigation_drug_violation_030512
QuoteSources: Syracuse basketball program repeatedly violated internal drug policy
By Charles Robinson and Pat Forde, Yahoo! Sports 7 hours, 53 minutes ago
SYRACUSE, N.Y. – During a decade in which Syracuse basketball reached the pinnacle of national prominence, the program was awash in positive drug tests and, in many cases, failed to adhere to its internal drug policy while playing ineligible players, Yahoo! Sports has learned.
Over the course of a three-month investigation, four sources with intimate knowledge of the Syracuse men's basketball program told Yahoo! Sports at least 10 players since 2001 have tested positive for a banned recreational substance or substances. The sources said all 10 of those players were allowed to practice and play at times when they should have been suspended by the athletic department, including instances when some players may not have known of their own ineligibility. The four sources said Syracuse violated its drug policy in at least two areas: failing to properly count positive tests; and playing ineligible players after they should have been subject to suspension.
A fifth source, a former Syracuse basketball player, told Yahoo! Sports he was questioned by the NCAA regarding the school's drug testing policy. Syracuse officials released a statement Monday evening about two hours after Y! Sports' report was published, saying the university has self-reported potential violations to the NCAA and the inquiry doesn't involve current players. However, four sources said the breadth of potential violations could apply to Syracuse seasons as far back as 2001 and include the 2002-03 national championship season.
"We self-reported issues with drug testing to the NCAA, and there is currently an ongoing inquiry," Syracuse said in the statement. "The inquiry does not involve any current SU student-athletes. To ensure the integrity of the ongoing process, we are unable to comment further at this time."
The NCAA also released a statement Monday night confirming Syracuse "appropriately" self-reported the violations "several months ago." The NCAA said its investigation is ongoing.
Hall of Fame coach Jim Boeheim, who has guided the current Syracuse team to a 30-1 record and No. 2 national record, had earlier declined to comment when contacted by Y! Sports.
"I don't know anything about it," Boeheim said. "I would not comment on anything like that. Good luck with your story."
Asked if he had any knowledge of an NCAA investigation, Boeheim again declined comment.
"Obviously, I'm not going to talk about anything at all," he said.
If Syracuse knowingly violated its own drug policies, it could trigger the NCAA's "Willful Violators" clause, which allows the association to bypass its four-year statute of limitations in favor of levying sanctions as far back as the first in a series of continued infractions. A willful violation is considered one that occurs during a pattern of deliberate or intentional rule-breaking.
Beyond statute-of-limitations issues, Syracuse could also be charged with lack of institutional control for failing to adhere to its own drug policy, similar to sanctions recently levied against Baylor University. A wide-ranging NCAA inquiry into the Bears' basketball program in 2005 revealed the athletic department failed to follow its established guidelines by concealing positive marijuana tests for three players. A report released by the NCAA's Committee on Infractions after the Baylor investigation stated: "The failure of the university to follow its own [drug testing] procedures demonstrated a lack of institutional control."
Yahoo! Sports reviewed Syracuse's student-athlete drug policies dating to the 2000-01 school year. They detailed the athletic department's protocol for handling positive tests, including a penalty structure for a player's first, second and third offense.
Each penalty called for the head coach to be notified and, in turn, alert a player's parents or guardians. After the first offense, an athlete was required to attend drug counseling and rehabilitation sessions. In addition, the policy called for the offending athlete to be tested on a regular basis for the remainder of his or her eligibility.
Penalties for a second positive test included automatic suspension from practice and playing, plus mandatory drug counseling, and a player could not return to the team without being cleared by a counselor as being drug free. For a third positive test, a player was subject to termination of eligibility and expulsion from school, barring special intervention by the athletic director.
The policy stated that after a third failed test, the athletic director had the option of extending a "one-time conditional grace period" in which the athlete was subject to specific terms and conditions for corrective action during a predetermined period of time.
Two sources told Yahoo! Sports that of the 10 players, at least one player continued to play after failing four tests and another player played after failing three.
NCAA member schools are not required to have their own drug-testing policy, though most choose to do so because of potential legal and disciplinary ramifications. The NCAA itself tests at championship events, and will be conducting random testing in the NCAA basketball tournament that begins next week, but otherwise schools are left to police themselves for drugs on their own terms.
However, the NCAA alerts member schools that when setting internal testing procedures, the ability of the school to follow its own guidelines is subject to NCAA oversight and sanctioning. This is the regulation which puts Syracuse at risk for potentially failing to follow its own policies.
There is no uniform national drug policy, nor do most conferences have a set testing protocol or penalty structure for their member schools. In fact, Big East associate commissioner for compliance Joseph D'Antonio told Yahoo! Sports last week that he doesn't even know what the drug policies are from school to school within the league. Syracuse is a member of the Big East.
Should Syracuse come under NCAA scrutiny for drug-testing failures, it would be the latest in a sometimes tumultuous decade for Boeheim's program. Multiple players have had legal or disciplinary issues over that span, including Billy Edelin, Eric Devendorf, Jonny Flynn, Rick Jackson, Josh Wright, Dayshawn Wright, Scoop Jardine and Fab Melo. A previous Yahoo! Sports report also found that a sports agency secured a $50,000 loan for the uncle of then-guard Donté Greene, in hopes of signing Greene once he departed for the NBA.
Most recently, Syracuse assistant coach Bernie Fine was accused of sexual molestation by a former Orange ball boy and his brother. While charges were not filed against Fine, he was ultimately fired from his coaching position.
Contact Yahoo! Sports investigative reporter Charles Robinson at [email protected]. Contact Yahoo! Sports national college columnist Pat Forde at [email protected].
Bleh. WVU blows a 7-point lead late in the game with stupid turnovers and an inability to hit a shot, and loses its last Big East game in OT against UCONN, which is now technically 40% of the way to repeating last year's unlikely 5-game Big East tournament run that won the championship.
GU advances past Pitt to meet Cincy and will play for a chance to meet Cuse.
Katmai. OSU. Seriously?
Quote from: Berkut on March 08, 2012, 09:30:21 PM
Katmai. OSU. Seriously?
It is end to perfect shitty season.
the most amazing nonsense is all the talk in Seattle is Ross and Wroten leaving as both are being told by their hangers on they will be 1st rd picks. Not looking to hot for UW next season, nor do i expect them to be in dance even with winning the regular season title.
:punk:
Auburn's boned
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/08/report-auburn-guard-investigated-for-point-shaving/
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 09, 2012, 01:09:22 AM
Auburn's boned
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/08/report-auburn-guard-investigated-for-point-shaving/
:yes: Yep, they will get in at least as much trouble as they did for paying to get Cam Newton on campus.
Quote from: katmai on March 08, 2012, 10:13:49 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 08, 2012, 09:30:21 PM
Katmai. OSU. Seriously?
It is end to perfect shitty season.
the most amazing nonsense is all the talk in Seattle is Ross and Wroten leaving as both are being told by their hangers on they will be 1st rd picks. Not looking to hot for UW next season, nor do i expect them to be in dance even with winning the regular season title.
Yeah, and that is why I don't really like the Pac-12 tourney, even though it is Arizona looking to capitalize on it now.
Arizona (or OSU or whoever) wins the tourney and gets the bid, and Washington stays home even though Washington won the regular season title and is the Pac-12 champion?
That isn't right. The conference championship is more important than the tourney championship - MUCH more important, in fact.
Important enough that I certainly would not say Washington had a shitty year. They won the conference. Short of a deep run into the NCAA tournament, which I am sure *someday* Washington will experience, it is the biggest prize.
I actually enjoyed watching a Texas Basketball game last night. This year's team has been so frustrating I was actually sort of looking forward to the season ending so I would not be tempted to keep tuning in and watching them suck...but suddenly they have 20 wins and are almost a lock to make the tournament. I guess I should be happy that Big 12 had a down year (A&M and Tech? LOL) so Rick Barnes' worst team actually ended up having a decent year.
I agree berkut but it is a bit of a fluke based on how bad the pac-12 is this year. If uw misses the tourney it will be the first time a "major conference" reg season champ will ever have missed out.
Quote from: Valmy on March 09, 2012, 09:51:07 AM
I actually enjoyed watching a Texas Basketball game last night. This year's team has been so frustrating I was actually sort of looking forward to the season ending so I would not be tempted to keep tuning in and watching them suck...but suddenly they have 20 wins and are almost a lock to make the tournament. I guess I should be happy that Big 12 had a down year (A&M and Tech? LOL) so Rick Barnes' worst team actually ended up having a decent year.
I'd say they definitely played their way in yesterday. Would be nice to see them knock off Mizzou tonight and get another shot at Baylor this year.
Speaking of Baylor, WTF is the deal with the green highlighter uniforms? :huh:
Quote from: derspiess on March 09, 2012, 10:57:06 AM
I'd say they definitely played their way in yesterday. Would be nice to see them knock off Mizzou tonight and get another shot at Baylor this year.
Speaking of Baylor, WTF is the deal with the green highlighter uniforms? :huh:
THey were horrible weren't they? If basketball was played outside they would have been visible from outer space. People were discussing those horrible unis almost more than the actual tournament this morning. I mean their colors are green yes but not bright-lime green.
I think their chances are at about 90% in getting it at this point. A win against Missouri will solidify it. Heck it is almost an annual tradition to make it to the Big 12 Tournament title game and lose to Kansas (four times in the last six years) and it would be nice to make that five out of seven.
Quote from: sbr on March 09, 2012, 10:22:21 AM
I agree berkut but it is a bit of a fluke based on how bad the pac-12 is this year. If uw misses the tourney it will be the first time a "major conference" reg season champ will ever have missed out.
True, and honestly I don't think they are going to miss anyway.
Cal is in, UW is in, and if someone other than Cal wins the conference tourney, they will be in as well.
I think Arizona has a shot at a bid if they win today and lose in the conference final. But that will depend on how other bubble teams do.
I heard an interview with the bracketology guy that was taped before the uw osu game and he thought a loss could knock the huskies out, fwiw.
Quote from: derspiess on March 09, 2012, 10:57:06 AM
Speaking of Baylor, WTF is the deal with the green highlighter uniforms? :huh:
They have another set of alternates they're also going to be using in the post season that are the same design. They're darker, but it makes the weird camouflage (:huh:) pattern is easier to see.
http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030612aae.html
I would like to see the tournament expanded so that conference tournaments become larglely irrelevant. If one more round is added all the regular season winners get in easily and there is still room for the teams that upset the favourites in the tournaments.
Win Win.
TV gets its revenues from the conference tournaments and the big dance and everyone who has a shot at the title makes it in.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 09, 2012, 02:35:24 PM
I would like to see the tournament expanded so that conference tournaments become larglely irrelevant. If one more round is added all the regular season winners get in easily and there is still room for the teams that upset the favourites in the tournaments.
Win Win.
TV gets its revenues from the conference tournaments and the big dance and everyone who has a shot at the title makes it in.
Meh. I'd like it scaled back to 64. More teams dilutes the value of making it in.
Or 32
Quote from: derspiess on March 09, 2012, 02:37:08 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 09, 2012, 02:35:24 PM
I would like to see the tournament expanded so that conference tournaments become larglely irrelevant. If one more round is added all the regular season winners get in easily and there is still room for the teams that upset the favourites in the tournaments.
Win Win.
TV gets its revenues from the conference tournaments and the big dance and everyone who has a shot at the title makes it in.
Meh. I'd like it scaled back to 64. More teams dilutes the value of making it in.
What value is there in that? The value is making it further into the tournament.
What you are really saying is that you dont want to see some schools have their recruiting potential diluted but I dont see how that harms the game.
64 (or 68 or whatever) feels right to me. If the regular season winner loses the tournament, either they can get in at large or they can STFU and wait for next year.
BTW, what does it take for a conference to lose an automatic bid?
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 09, 2012, 02:39:00 PM
What value is there in that? The value is making it further into the tournament.
For big schools, yes. For a lot of mid-majors and below, simply making the tournament (particularly with an at-large bid) is a big accomplishment.
Plus, expanding the NCAA tourney dilutes the value of the NIT, of which I'm a pretty big fan.
QuoteWhat you are really saying is that you dont want to see some schools have their recruiting potential diluted but I dont see how that harms the game.
I'm not talking about recruiting potential. I'm talking about school pride, bragging rights, etc. Schools that have made the NCAA tourney have banners in their arenas displaying the years they made it. It's part of the culture of college hoops. Diluting the value of making the "Big Dance" eliminates a lot of late-season excitement.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 09, 2012, 03:15:13 PM
64 (or 68 or whatever) feels right to me. If the regular season winner loses the tournament, either they can get in at large or they can STFU and wait for next year.
BTW, what does it take for a conference to lose an automatic bid?
Don't all Division I conferences get the automatic bid?
Quote from: derspiess on March 09, 2012, 03:16:57 PM
Diluting the value of making the "Big Dance" eliminates a lot of late-season excitement.
I guess we put importance on different things. I think the regular season is important - not just a preliminary to when the excitement starts. I also think that the tournament would be just as exciting. After all you would drop to the same numbers as now after just one game.
The late season excitement would still be there. Nobody would want to have a low ranking going into the tournament.
Quote from: derspiess on March 09, 2012, 03:18:15 PM
Don't all Division I conferences get the automatic bid?
Do they? I thought I read somewhere that if they don't win a game for X years they lose it. Could be wrong.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 09, 2012, 03:22:27 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 09, 2012, 03:18:15 PM
Don't all Division I conferences get the automatic bid?
Do they? I thought I read somewhere that if they don't win a game for X years they lose it. Could be wrong.
Yeah, I thought that too, but I have to admit I dont know the specifics. Berkut will likely know.
No, every D-1 conference gets 1 automatic bid, of which there are 31 last count.
Quote from: Berkut on March 09, 2012, 03:53:03 PM
No, every D-1 conference gets 1 automatic bid, of which there are 31 last count.
My knowledge of D-1 is pretty murky once you get down past the mid-majors :Embarrass:
Quote from: Berkut on March 09, 2012, 03:53:03 PM
No, every D-1 conference gets 1 automatic bid, of which there are 31 last count.
And they voted to make that the tourney champ, not the regular season champ, for what that's worth (though they may have changed that - I haven't been following the rules much).
The clear advantage to that is that there is only one tourney champ, while there are often multiple regular-season champs (see: the B10 this year). The disadvantage is that the body of work doesn't count so much for the bubble teams.
You have to pick your poison.
I am almost certain it is each individual conference's choice as to who receives the auto bid. I heard that the Ivy league is the only one that still sends their regular season champ to the NCAA tourney, I assume that means they don't have a post-season tournament but I;m not sure.
sbr is correct, it is everyone's choice.
It used to be that the Pac-10 was one of the few conferences left that sent their regular season champion as the auto bid, but apparently someone figured out that conferences were getting more teams into the tournament (and hence more sweet, sweet cash) by leaving the possibility open that someone gets hot and wins the tournament and gets a "extra" spot for the conference.
Now only the Ivy League, who does not have a post season conference tournament, is the only D1 conference that still gives the auto bid to the regular season champion.
I don't see any problem with the multiple champions issue, surely even the B1G has a tie breaker?
Quote from: Berkut on March 09, 2012, 09:41:03 AM
That isn't right. The conference championship is more important than the tourney championship - MUCH more important, in fact.
Important enough that I certainly would not say Washington had a shitty year. They won the conference. Short of a deep run into the NCAA tournament, which I am sure *someday* Washington will experience, it is the biggest prize.
I'll ignore the shot at can't get past Sweet 16 <_<
It will be a down year for Huskies if they don't get in Tourney. Which will happen if any one other than Cal wins the Conference Tourney. Like I said before 'Zona need to win it, making it just to final won't be enough.
Colorado upset Cal to make it a Colorado-Arizona final.
And pretty much seals it that UW won't be picked.
The winner or the Colo-Arizona game and Cal will be the only two Pac-12 teams picked on Sunday most likely.
Quote from: katmai on March 10, 2012, 01:47:23 AM
Colorado upset Cal to make it a Colorado-Arizona final.
And pretty much seals it that UW won't be picked.
The winner or the Colo-Arizona game and Cal will be the only two Pac-12 teams picked on Sunday most likely.
UW may not be picked, but I think it doesn't work that way.
The selection committee does not say "The Pac-12 gets 2 based on how strong they are, so we are taking X and Y".
Rather they will pencil in the tourney winner, then say "All right, Cal is in on record and SoS. UW...hmmmm, bubble, who else is out there on the bubble?"
I don't think Arizona making it (for example) hurts Washington's chances at all, except insofar that it is one bubble team that took a spot away. But they are taking away 1 of 30something total spots, not 1 of 2 Pac-12 spots.
Sadly enough, UW losing actually hurt Arizona chances...sort of.
Had they won, and then Arizona beat them, a loss to Cal in the final could have had Arizona in a bubble spot.
But beating OSU probably hurt our RPI even more, and now playing another terrible team in Colorado RPI wise means we cannot lose to them and have any chance, since that would hammer our RPI even more.
I think it is entirely possible that after winning the Pac-12 tournament, Arizona's RPI could be LOWER after those three games than when the tournament started!
The Pac is so very, very bad this year...
Quote from: Berkut on March 10, 2012, 02:18:16 AM
UW may not be picked, but I think it doesn't work that way.
The selection committee does not say "The Pac-12 gets 2 based on how strong they are, so we are taking X and Y".
Rather they will pencil in the tourney winner, then say "All right, Cal is in on record and SoS. UW...hmmmm, bubble, who else is out there on the bubble?"
I don't think Arizona making it (for example) hurts Washington's chances at all, except insofar that it is one bubble team that took a spot away. But they are taking away 1 of 30something total spots, not 1 of 2 Pac-12 spots.
No, no, no I meant that Cal has better RPI and SoS, so will beat out Washington and the league down as whole it will be lucky to get more than two bids.
Quote from: Berkut on March 10, 2012, 02:25:56 AM
Sadly enough, UW losing actually hurt Arizona chances...sort of.
Had they won, and then Arizona beat them, a loss to Cal in the final could have had Arizona in a bubble spot.
But beating OSU probably hurt our RPI even more, and now playing another terrible team in Colorado RPI wise means we cannot lose to them and have any chance, since that would hammer our RPI even more.
I think it is entirely possible that after winning the Pac-12 tournament, Arizona's RPI could be LOWER after those three games than when the tournament started!
The Pac is so very, very bad this year...
Just beat the Buffs and don't fret over it :P
I think Colorado has won more Pac-12 tournament games in 5 days than ASU has won in 15 years.
Quote from: Berkut on March 10, 2012, 10:55:56 AM
I think Colorado has won more Pac-12 tournament games in 5 days than ASU has won in 15 years.
If one gives any credence to Joe Lunardi the bracketology guru for ESPN the Pac-12 bids will be winner of the final and UW, so here's hoping he's right :P
Quote from: Berkut on March 10, 2012, 10:55:56 AM
I think Colorado has won more Pac-12 tournament games in 5 days than ASU has won in 15 years.
Their record in their 15 years in the Big 12 9-15
Arizona should have no problem with those chumps
Texas getting whipped by Missouri means they are back on the bubble...hope they make it. Hate to see their 14 year streak end.
Joe Linardi has UDub in first four out. :ph34r:
Seminoles just nipped Duke.
Hey Throbby, is there some super secret barber shop only basketball refs go to? They all seem to have amazing hair.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2012, 05:44:31 PM
Hey Throbby, is there some super secret barber shop only basketball refs go to? They all seem to have amazing hair.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Quote from: Berkut on March 10, 2012, 11:16:18 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2012, 05:44:31 PM
Hey Throbby, is there some super secret barber shop only basketball refs go to? They all seem to have amazing hair.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I am sure that that is what you
have to say. But tell us: if this non-existant secret barber shop
did exist, where would it be?
Uggh, I did some AAU games today, and completely fucked up the end of my last one.
Sigh. I don't know if I should be happy it was just an AAU game I made such a huge screwup in, or terrified that if I can lose focus like that in an AAU game, it could happen in a varsity game or even college if I decide to go that way.
UPSET CITY BABY
Florida St. over NC and Vandy over Kentucky.
Sparty and Fuckeye down to the wire.
All putative #1 seeds have lost their conference tournies.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 11, 2012, 02:13:53 PM
UPSET CITY BABY
Florida St. over NC and Vandy over Kentucky.
And those rare words are uttered: 'SEC Champion Vanderbilt'
Yes Berkut I know the tournament winner is not the real champion.
Anyway Texas made it in so streak intact. Pretty good for a team that returned 3 players (not three starters...three players and all of them backups).
Is there a Languish MM bracket on Yahoo yet, or are we able to automatically rejoin last year's? I get confused between how Yahoo and CBSSportsline work.
Set it up, if you did it last year will get email.
and NIT, NIT!
Meh not surprised at all by omission, the only annoying part is having to hear how first time since 50's one of the "power six" conference regular season champs didn't get invite.
I'm in :)
And nothing wrong with the NIT. If your team goes all the way & wins it, they can give the finger to the NCAA tourney selection committee all along the way.
I did get a kick out of some delusional Marshall fans who had apparently thought they were on the bubble & then complained about getting a 5 seed in the NIT. Be happy you got invited to a post-season tourney this year that you didn't have to pay to get into, Terd fans.
Nice to see WVU, although a 10 seed, playing in Pittsburgh. If they get by Gonzaga in the first round, I'm so there for the second round vs. Ohio State.
The four big cheeses at ESPN went went out on a limb and predicted the #1 and #2 to meet in all four brackets.
I think a nice dark horse is Louisville starting with a 7 seed. They have amazing team speed and quickness and a scary press.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2012, 02:33:16 PM
The four big cheeses at ESPN went went out on a limb and predicted the #1 and #2 to meet in all four brackets.
I think a nice dark horse is Louisville starting with a 7 seed. They have amazing team speed and quickness and a scary press.
That is going out on a limb since that has never happened.
Louisville is hot but these days you have to figure at least one of the Regional Champs is going to be a team that has been off the national radar all year.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2012, 02:33:16 PM
I think a nice dark horse is Louisville starting with a 7 seed. They have amazing team speed and quickness and a scary press.
They're definitely hot right now (they're a 4 seed, btw). They had an ugly few games around the middle of the season but they've been hitting on all cylinders.
But they burned me the last couple years. I know if I pick them to go deep, they'll pull their third straight first round loss.
Val, I think Texas has a good chance to knock off Cincinnati. UC is a streaky team and may not recover from Saturday's demoralizing loss.
Quote from: derspiess on March 12, 2012, 02:50:07 PM
Val, I think Texas has a good chance to knock off Cincinnati. UC is a streaky team and may not recover from Saturday's demoralizing loss.
Texas is as well as they go as J'Covan Brown goes. When he is on they can beat anybody...when he is off they lose to Oregon State.
That is really anybody's game.
Quote from: derspiess on March 12, 2012, 02:47:25 PM
(they're a 4 seed, btw)
Not that dark then. Must find darker!
Does anyone understand the point of the 12 seed and 14 seed play ins?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2012, 05:57:20 PM
Does anyone understand the point of the 12 seed and 14 seed play ins?
Ratings. Those teams are more likely to be from major conferences than the 16 seed play in.
QuoteObama, Cameron, to attend NCAA March Madness basketball tournament in Dayton, Ohio
FUCK. Traffic is going to be shitty there.
Quote from: katmai on March 12, 2012, 11:37:16 AM
Set it up, if you did it last year will get email.
and NIT, NIT!
Meh not surprised at all by omission, the only annoying part is having to hear how first time since 50's one of the "power six" conference regular season champs didn't get invite.
I didn't get an email and I was in last year wasn't I?
BTW, heard on ESPN that Joe Linardi correctly called all but one of the field this year. He had Drexel in and Seton Hall out (or vice versa).
Why the fuck couldn't Loyola be this good when I went there? Oh yeah, it was a College back then. Now it's a University. Now it can recruit black guys.
I am so gonna laugh my balls off if the Jesuits teabag Ed's Fuckeyes.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 13, 2012, 07:03:26 AM
Why the fuck couldn't Loyola be this good when I went there? Oh yeah, it was a College back then. Now it's a University. Now it can recruit black guys.
I am so gonna laugh my balls off if the Jesuits teabag Ed's Fuckeyes.
I'll laugh too, since I don't follow Ohio State basketball.
Yeah his missus would kick his hiney for not supporting Hoosiers.
Without Bobby Knight, the hoosiers just don't have the pizazz I crave.
I'm trying to slander your good name sir, I'll have none of this rational discourse!
Quote from: katmai on March 13, 2012, 09:02:35 AM
I'm trying to slander your good name sir, I'll have none of this rational discourse!
Harumph!
I didn't get a harrumph outta that guy.
Quote from: PDH on March 13, 2012, 09:28:00 AM
I didn't get a harrumph outta that guy.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FohDc5.jpg&hash=b9fbe611991fd2ae1d30b4f6bf51458199423bee)
work, work, work ,work
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 13, 2012, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 13, 2012, 07:03:26 AM
Why the fuck couldn't Loyola be this good when I went there? Oh yeah, it was a College back then. Now it's a University. Now it can recruit black guys.
I am so gonna laugh my balls off if the Jesuits teabag Ed's Fuckeyes.
I'll laugh too, since I don't follow Ohio State basketball.
I don't care, I'm going to do it anyway.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 13, 2012, 09:32:19 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 13, 2012, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 13, 2012, 07:03:26 AM
Why the fuck couldn't Loyola be this good when I went there? Oh yeah, it was a College back then. Now it's a University. Now it can recruit black guys.
I am so gonna laugh my balls off if the Jesuits teabag Ed's Fuckeyes.
I'll laugh too, since I don't follow Ohio State basketball.
I don't care, I'm going to do it anyway.
Do it. Ed should be called to account for his inconsistent fanhood :angry:
Maybe if Thad Matta started wearing sweater vests.
Quote from: derspiess on March 13, 2012, 10:28:04 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 13, 2012, 09:32:19 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 13, 2012, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 13, 2012, 07:03:26 AM
Why the fuck couldn't Loyola be this good when I went there? Oh yeah, it was a College back then. Now it's a University. Now it can recruit black guys.
I am so gonna laugh my balls off if the Jesuits teabag Ed's Fuckeyes.
I'll laugh too, since I don't follow Ohio State basketball.
I don't care, I'm going to do it anyway.
Do it. Ed should be called to account for his inconsistent fanhood :angry:
You could try, but I'd ignore you people. I cannot be judged by the plebs.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 13, 2012, 06:13:57 PMYou could try, but I'd ignore you people. I cannot be judged by the plebs.
You've got 4 pairs of eyes judging you all day anyway. Watching. Judging.
Anyway, with the news of Syracuse's monster center being declared ineligible for not doing homework or some shit, my Final Four is UK, OSU, Mich St and DA DIAPER DANDY HOYAS SNEAKIN IN BABY.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 14, 2012, 06:21:46 AM
Anyway, with the news of Syracuse's monster center being declared ineligible for not doing homework or some shit, my Final Four is UK, OSU, Mich St and DA DIAPER DANDY HOYAS SNEAKIN IN BABY.
Freddy Mercury was not that much of a contributor on offense so I think Syracuse won't be hurt that much.
As to the Hoyas, JT3's record in the Dance is miserable, so I'm keeping my hopes down. Maybe two wins.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 14, 2012, 02:59:41 PM
As to the Hoyas, JT3's record in the Dance is miserable, so I'm keeping my hopes down. Maybe two wins.
They've got the D to run the bracket, and they match up well with the inconsistent offenses in their bracket. Just can't lose their heads early.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 14, 2012, 02:59:41 PM
As to the Hoyas, JT3's record in the Dance is miserable, so I'm keeping my hopes down. Maybe two wins.
They get me every year. But I just cannot help myself I always pick them to go deep.
I'm also not that crazy about Ohio St. Sullinger looked very predictable and stopable in the games I watched.
Quote from: Valmy on March 14, 2012, 03:04:33 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 14, 2012, 02:59:41 PM
As to the Hoyas, JT3's record in the Dance is miserable, so I'm keeping my hopes down. Maybe two wins.
They get me every year. But I just cannot help myself I always pick them to go deep.
Yeah, there's a name for that: it's called the "Gonzaga Syndrome".
Looks like Tim has taken advantage of this year's opportunity to enter two brackets into Languish Tourney Madness :yeahright:
Anyway, we need more people in. My 2012 trophy won't be as impressive with such a small group of people.
Isn't it too late with the play in games already played?
If not, tell me how to sign up.
And I'm talking thawed out caveman directions.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 14, 2012, 03:15:57 PM
Isn't it too late with the play in games already played?
If not, tell me how to sign up.
And I'm talking thawed out caveman directions.
I can still edit mine, so I think you'd be okay.
Let's see if this works. If not, Katmai will have to send you an invite. You'll need a Yahoo ID if you don't have one already.
Go to this link and sign in: http://tournament.fantasysports.yahoo.com/t1/register/joinprivategroup_assign_team?GID=125435&P=bubble
The Group ID and password are in the URL above, but just in case it asks you again:
Group ID#: 125435
Password: bubble
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 14, 2012, 03:15:57 PM
Isn't it too late with the play in games already played?
If not, tell me how to sign up.
And I'm talking thawed out caveman directions.
If Derspeiss merely wants to feel more important I'd be happy to fill out a bracket too. I mean I've never actually watched a NCAA basketball game in my life, but I've picked up enough from watching TSN over the years...
Thanks Derspicy, i was trying to find that info all you need are that id and password to join iirc.
Got all the way to creating my account and bracket, then when I clicked on my bracket name to make picks "cannot open site blah blah aborted."
Tried it twice, which is why there are two "HoyaDoin" brackets with no picks. :(
Hmm, if it let you join, then it should have let you set your picks. I wonder if there's a browser plugin missing or something.
El presidente has UNC, Kentucky, Mizzou and Ohio St. in the Final Four.
I'll throw a bracket into the pool when I get home.
I'll go with Kentucky, Syracuse, Kansas, and Louisville in the Final 4. Then Kentucky over Syracuse and Kansas over Louisville. Wild Cats over Jay Hawks.
I like Duke, but I don't think anybody's getting past Kentucky this year.
East is probably the softest bracket.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 14, 2012, 03:13:18 PM
Yeah, there's a name for that: it's called the "Gonzaga Syndrome".
Did you peek at my bracket?
If WVU's freshman decide to actually contribute and the burly Turkish power forward doesn't foul out, Gonzaga ain't advancing. That's a pretty big if, though. Looks like Zags are favored by 1, FWIW.
Quote from: sbr on March 14, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
I'll throw a bracket into the pool when I get home.
Done, in about 7 minutes.
My Final Four: Baylor, Mizzou, Florida State and North Carolina.
Tarheels beat Mizzou in the NC Game. :D
Man, fuck all that new Yahoo/Google/Facebook sign-in bullshit.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 14, 2012, 07:28:20 PM
Man, fuck all that new Yahoo/Google/Facebook sign-in bullshit.
It's the new thing, all the cool kids are doing it.
You know you want to too.
They can kiss my black ass.
Fantasy sports are for Timmays.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 14, 2012, 07:31:44 PM
Fantasy sports are for Timmays.
Picking winners is not fantasy sports, it's for manly men.
I sneer at your pussy brackets.
And Arizona caps the worst season in a couple decades off by losing to Bucknell, at home, in the first round of the NITs.
Can't say I am exactly surprised.
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2012, 12:00:01 AM
And Arizona caps the worst season in a couple decades off by losing to Bucknell, at home, in the first round of the NITs.
You know, I was flipping channels tonight and I saw that game was on, and thought to myself, hey I don't remember seeing Arizona in my bracket. And then I realized it was the NIT. And I lol'd. Heartily.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 14, 2012, 09:05:57 PM
I sneer at your pussy brackets.
:rolleyes: Such a European.
Speaking of NIT, losing in the first round to Middle Tennessee State shut up a majority of Marshall fans and mostly ended their delusion of having been a bubble team. Now they're saying their coach, who brought them to the NIT after a 20+ year drought, is on the hot seat. I think he's actually too good of a coach to be at Marshall. He's no Billy Donovan, but he could end up coaching in one of the top 6 conferences.
Quote from: derspiess on March 14, 2012, 03:14:35 PM
Looks like Tim has taken advantage of this year's opportunity to enter two brackets into Languish Tourney Madness :yeahright:
Anyway, we need more people in. My 2012 trophy won't be as impressive with such a small group of people.
It let me fill out two, so I did.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 15, 2012, 08:48:34 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 14, 2012, 03:14:35 PM
Looks like Tim has taken advantage of this year's opportunity to enter two brackets into Languish Tourney Madness :yeahright:
Anyway, we need more people in. My 2012 trophy won't be as impressive with such a small group of people.
It let me fill out two, so I did.
I know. Didn't you do like 15 total last year? :)
On an unrelated NBA note, anybody else surprised that Carmelo Anthony is the biggest walking team cancer since Christian Laettner?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 15, 2012, 09:27:09 AM
On an unrelated NBA note, anybody else surprised that Carmelo Anthony is the biggest walking team cancer since Christian Laettner?
He hasn't reached AI status yet.
Southern Miss just fucked up my bracket, you worthless pieces of shit.
Me too, I had south miss in my sweet 16.
Asheville and Cuse running neck and neck. Orange don't look like they miss Fabricio much though.
Louisville's African looks like a war criminal.
4 for 4 so far.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 15, 2012, 09:27:09 AM
On an unrelated NBA note, anybody else surprised that Carmelo Anthony is the biggest walking team cancer since Christian Laettner?
I'd like to see John Starks come out of the fan relations office and kick the living shit out of 'Melo.
Well, UNC-Asheville almost pulled it off, but not quite.
People are going to bitch about the refs rigging the game for Syracuse, but that out of bounds was a clear foul, and the lane violation was the guy sticking his foot in early, not the other guy running down from the foul line.
The missed gold tending was a clear bad call though.
TruTV desk dudes/some official they have on there are saying lane violation was good, out of bounds thing was bad. Doesn't really matter either way though.
Looks like the only game on now is New Mexico - Long Beach? I could have sworn Harvard was playing Vandy on another channel but I'm not seeing it now. :hmm:
e: Nevermind, there it is. Vandy is pulling away it seems. For some reason my "last four" channel selection got fucked up and had ESPN on there when that wasn't one of the four I was watching.
Yeah, Mr. Head of Officiating was on and said unless you're on the lane, you can't come crashing down until the shot hits the rim. Same thing applies to the shooter.
7 out of 7 and unless epic Vandy Collapse will be 8 for 8
Now I have lost an elite 8 team in Wichita State.
Iowa State has been face-fucking UConn for a while now. Huskies need to pick it up or I might be forced to go find the remote.
UNLV kinda ran out of gas there at the end. Nice comeback attempt though.
Quote from: derspiess on March 15, 2012, 09:09:39 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 15, 2012, 08:48:34 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 14, 2012, 03:14:35 PM
Looks like Tim has taken advantage of this year's opportunity to enter two brackets into Languish Tourney Madness :yeahright:
Anyway, we need more people in. My 2012 trophy won't be as impressive with such a small group of people.
It let me fill out two, so I did.
I know. Didn't you do like 15 total last year? :)
Yeah, but I've so busy this year I only made those two.
Greyhounds had a decent showing, all things considered. A for Effort.
My South bracket looks like Sherman just went through it.
WELP
GU escapes the first round. :weep: :worthy:
Bye, bye Mizzou?!
:lol: I had them in my NC Game.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 14, 2012, 04:04:44 PM
El presidente has UNC, Kentucky, Mizzou and Ohio St. in the Final Four.
:nelson:
Lehigh is hanging with Duke.
Quote from: katmai on March 16, 2012, 05:41:38 PM
Bye, bye Mizzou?!
Wahoo! So long suckas!
Kidding....actually seriously fuck them.
Quote from: Valmy on March 16, 2012, 07:40:33 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 16, 2012, 05:41:38 PM
Bye, bye Mizzou?!
Wahoo! So long suckas!
Kidding....actually seriously fuck them.
I couldn't really gloat as Pac-12 is sucking ass except for the Big-12 entrance :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on March 16, 2012, 07:40:33 PM
Wahoo! So long suckas!
Kidding....actually seriously fuck them.
You're an emotional roller coaster dude.
Duke is losing to Lehigh. Two #2's going down in the first round.
Lehigh has a cheerleader shaped like a bowling ball.
And no more Maize and Blue in Tourney either.
And Duke is out! :yeah:
Go <Lehigh Nickname>s!
Quote from: katmai on March 16, 2012, 08:35:03 PM
And no more Maize and Blue in Tourney either.
No real surprise there. Dunno where Trey Burke and Tim Hardaway have their heads right now, but it hasn't been in the game for four games now. If they don't perform, Michigan can't win (except against Penn State).
Quote from: grumbler on March 16, 2012, 08:53:45 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 16, 2012, 08:35:03 PM
And no more Maize and Blue in Tourney either.
No real surprise there. Dunno where Trey Burke and Tim Hardaway have their heads right now, but it hasn't been in the game for four games now. If they don't perform, Michigan can't win (except against Penn State).
Overachieved late last year, crashed and burned late this year. :alberta:
Quote from: sbr on March 16, 2012, 08:43:13 PM
And Duke is out! :yeah:
Who will I bandwagon onto now? :cry:
Zags are leading Ohio St. at the half. Another 2 seed in danger. :ph34r:
Hey Throbby, if you read this I could use an explanation of the five second rule please.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2012, 03:00:59 PM
Zags are leading Ohio St. at the half. :ph34r:
:unsure: Ohio State is winning by two.
E: Five second rule? The closely guarded one or something else?
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on March 17, 2012, 03:09:51 PM
:unsure: Ohio State is winning by two.
Quit stalking me.
QuoteE: Five second rule? The closely guarded one or something else?
The closely guarded thing.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2012, 03:11:59 PM
The closely guarded thing.
Oh, it seems to be just a way to get the ball moving around to other players. If a defender is within a certain distance (4-5 feet? A real ref will know the actual distance, assuming there is one) of the dude with the ball, they start a count. If the defender backs off, switches with another defender, the guy with the ball passes it, or gets by the defender, the count stops until the defender moves back into his face.
There's probably more to it, but that's the general idea as far as I know. I always turn it off in video games. :P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2012, 03:00:59 PM
Hey Throbby, if you read this I could use an explanation of the five second rule please.
A player on offense can't stay in the key longer than 5 seconds, that's what the ref is waving his arm off when he does that wrestling-style count. I think.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 17, 2012, 03:36:37 PM
A player on offense can't stay in the key longer than 5 seconds, that's what the ref is waving his arm off when he does that wrestling-style count. I think.
Lane violation is 3 seconds, Superfan.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2012, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 17, 2012, 03:36:37 PM
A player on offense can't stay in the key longer than 5 seconds, that's what the ref is waving his arm off when he does that wrestling-style count. I think.
Lane violation is 3 seconds, Superfan.
SON OF A
Then maybe it's icing. I dunno.
:lol:
Commodore 64's out.
Cyclones/Wildcats keeps oscillating between a close game and a blow out. I gave 10 points and feel pretty good about the bet.
Well the Baylor - Colorado game was awesome, then Baylor went absolutely nuts. :blink:
Edit: The "Big 12 Rejects" chant starts.
Georgetown out. Oh well.
Lehigh up 33-18 over Xavier! :o
Damn, Tim. It's only 37 - 33 Lehigh now at the half.
The taint is strong with that one.
Wow, and in only 3 minutes too! :lol:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2012, 03:00:59 PM
Zags are leading Ohio St. at the half. Another 2 seed in danger. :ph34r:
Hey Throbby, if you read this I could use an explanation of the five second rule please.
This is the closely guarded count.
Once a defender is between an offensive player and the basket, and withing 6 feet playing defense, the covering official starts a 5 second count.
When the offensive player:
Starts to dribble
Pick up his dribble
The count is re-started. This means you could have up to 15 seconds closely guarded - 5 seconds on getting a pass, start dribble, 5 seconds there, pick up dribble, 5 more seconds.
If the offensive player passes the ball, gets by the defender, or the defender is more than 6ft away, the count stops altogether.
If the count ever gets to 5, it is a turnover.
Basically it is a way of keeping the offensive player from just standing there and refusing to move/dribble/pass (and hence place the ball at risk).
Obrigado.
Seems kind of a gyp to get a five count if you're dribbling.
Jayhawks just squeaked past Purdue. My final four are all still alive!
My South and Midwest brackets look like Atlanta 1865, but my East and West have only 1 and 2 losses respectively.
Stoopid Hoyas. :mad:
Cuse beats The Cheese by one to advance to the round of eight.
4 Big East teams and 3 Big 10 teams left.
4 teams from Ohio left.
Louisville past Sparty with room to spare.
There's my dark horse. :punk:
I missed both games tonight, though I guess I had Wisconsin beating S Miss not Syracuse. I am happy to see Sparty lose, normally I like MSU hoops but a Spartan fan annoyed my on another forum so I was a huge Louisville fan tonight.
Spartan fans being annoying? There is a shocka.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 08:53:48 PM
Louisville past Sparty with room to spare.
There's my dark horse. :punk:
Damn! I've backed them for years to go deep, and the one year I don't they do this to me! <_<
The play in this tourney has not been great. Some close games to at least make it interesting but that is about it.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2012, 04:20:56 PM
The play in this tourney has not been great. Some close games to at least make it interesting but that is about it.
Syracuse & Wisconsin was a well-played game. As was Norfolk State-Mizzou, surprisingly. UK-Indiana should be a good one tonight.
But hell, any tourney where Duke gets knocked out in its first game is a great one in my book.
Current Languish standings (too lazy to copy, paste, & reformat):
http://tournament.fantasysports.yahoo.com/t1/group/125435/standings
The bracket I put in to mock Tim is in first place for the moment.
I have the highest potential points!
Fucking tourney.
Basketball is bullshit.
Ohio is taking UNC down to the wire. :o
I'm surprised Ohio didn't win, I have unc in the title game.
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2012, 04:34:12 PM
Current Languish standings (too lazy to copy, paste, & reformat):
http://tournament.fantasysports.yahoo.com/t1/group/125435/standings
The bracket I put in to mock Tim is in first place for the moment.
What was so Timish about it?
Louisville and OSU into the Final 4.
Did anyone else put baylor in the final four? I wonder if I still have a shot if they win tomorrow and unc wins it all.
If Kentucky wins, I win my ESPN bracket. Barely. By 10 pts.
I've got 3 teams in the Final Four.
Jawhawks front line played a great game against UNC.
Washington and Minnesota are in OT (NIT tournament) on ESPN2 if you're looking for a late week night hoops fix.
Are these fears legit or way overblown?
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7744477/john-calipari-anthony-davis-kentucky-march-final-four-means-college-basketball
QuoteKentucky's Death March
They're going to win. And what happens next will be really bad for college basketball.
By Chuck Klosterman on March 28, 2012
Kentucky might lose this weekend. Better teams than the Wildcats (UNLV in '91, Georgetown in '85, UCLA in '74) have lost in the season's last weekend, and college basketball is built for meaningful, memorable upsets. But if this happens, I will be shocked. I would be less surprised if they beat Louisville by 15 and Kansas by 20. Jayhawk Thomas Robinson is usually described as the best player in the country, but Anthony Davis is already better (and improving in real time, right in front of our eyes). He'll go no. 1 in the NBA draft. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist might be the second pick. Every guy Kentucky puts on the floor looks like some version of a pro: They're all highly skilled and weirdly unselfish. It's not unfair, but it feels that way. So I expect Kentucky to crush everyone. I expect them to win for entirely predictable reasons. But then I will sit in my dark living room on Monday night and wonder: What happens now?
I'm not going to take any shots at John Calipari, because I'm starting to think he's a pretty decent dude. When CBS interviewed Calipari and Davis the day after the Cats obliterated Indiana in the South Regional, they displayed a rapport that suggests Calipari is simply unlike the vast majority of men who spend their adult lives screaming at 19-year-olds for failing to box out. What makes him different, I suspect, is that he cares about "young people" more than he cares about The Game Of Basketball. And that's a deceptively complex perspective.
I'm sure every coach in America would claim they care more about their individual players than about the sport itself, because it seems draconian to place a game above a human. Yet part of the lesson of sports (or at least what we always tell children) is that individuals must subjugate themselves to the team — and not just to win, but to show some level of amorphous "respect" for the game itself. I'm not sure I still believe this, or even if I ever believed it at all. But I do know that people who devote their lives to basketball tend to value it in a manner that transcends the involvement of all those who participate temporarily. In the specific, it's easy to view Anthony Davis as more important than a random SEC game; in the abstract, whoever plays power forward for Kentucky is really just another impermanent pawn, contributing to a physical art form that will exist long after the death of everyone reading this column. If you love basketball, part of your mind (conflicted though it may be) needs to recognize and understand that kind of philosophical invention. But Calipari does not think that way, and that's why guys like Bob Knight won't even utter his name in public. Somehow, he's both a good person and an amoral contrarian. He's more important than he probably realizes.
Calipari has professionalized college sports,1 which is great for him and good for his recruits. It's just discomforting for anyone who likes NCAA basketball, assuming they're drawn to the same game that lives within their memory. He's built awesome teams for seven consecutive seasons, usually by overhauling his entire roster with transitory superstars who are only attending college because there's no reasonable alternative. He's completely up-front about this strategy, and it's irrefutably effective. In his three years at Kentucky, he's never lost a home game. But here's the rub: Every season, something goes wrong at the end — and that validates his critics. While coaching Memphis in the 2008 final, Calipari had the superior squad, but they couldn't make free throws and lost in OT.2 At Kentucky in 2010, he had an obscene collection of talent (four of his starters went in the first round of the draft), but they self-destructed in the clutch, just as everyone who hates Calipari always insisted they would.3 It's like there's this indefinable weakness to his system that everyone4 hopes will eventually emerge; somehow, we want to believe that the way Calipari conducts business is intangibly doomed (because that reinforces the traditional view of what team sports are supposed to represent). It's not unlike the way most NBA observers are predisposed to root against the Miami Heat: You should not be able to succeed in this way. You should not be able to arbitrarily construct a Super Team that automatically achieves Super Greatness. It cheapens the experience. It feels cold and uncreative. That's why traditionalists are always relieved when Calipari's template collapses: It suggests there's some inherent flaw to his philosophy that even he cannot see. It balances the system.
But not this time.
It does not appear that Kentucky will lose a game by choking at the line (they made 35 of 37 versus Indiana) or by imploding in the closing minutes (oddly, they inevitably seem more mature than the veterans they face). They play prison-yard defense and swing the rock. Anything is possible in a single-elimination tournament, but these Wildcats looks less prone to self-induced injury. So let's assume Kentucky succeeds. Let's assume they rampage through their final two games. It will disprove a lot of lingering suspicions about what does (and doesn't) work. It will mean that winning a title with freshmen and sophomores is not only plausible, but logical and inarguable. That realization will knock the system out of balance. Right now, there are always two foolproof arguments against the Calipari ideal — it reflects badly on the university, and it breaks down in moments that matter most. No one is going to emulate a program with a bad reputation if the end result is the same as doing things the way they've always been done. But that argument evaporates the moment Calipari climbs a ladder and cuts a net. If Kentucky is simultaneously the most straightforward finishing school for future professionals and the best place to win a national championship, there's no reason for a blue-chip high school senior to go anywhere else. Calipari will dynastically dominate with a revolving door of sheer horsepower, and the only way other schools will be able to respond is by becoming exactly like him.
Now, I'm not suggesting that every single college will turn into a clone of Kentucky, because that's impossible. There aren't enough good players in America for that to happen. But Calipari's scheme will become standard at a handful of universities where losing at basketball is unacceptable: North Carolina, Syracuse, Kansas, UCLA, and maybe even Duke. These schools already recruit one-and-done freshmen, but they'll have to go further; they'll have to be as transparent about their motives as Calipari is (because transparency is the obsession of modernity). If they resist, they will fade. And the result will be a radical amplification of what the game has already become: There will be five schools sharing the 25 best players in the country, and all the lesser programs will kill each other for the right to lose to those five schools in the Sweet 16. It will skew the competitive balance of major conferences and split D-I basketball into two completely unequal tiers. Final Four games will look more and more like sloppy pro games, and national interest in college basketball will wane (even if the level of play technically increases).5 In 10 years, it might be a niche sport for people like me — people who can't get over the past.
Kentucky totally deserves to win. But I sure hope they don't.
QuoteGeorgetown in '85,
I don't want to talk about it.
Raging 2nd half comeback by Kansas to beat OSU. Best game of the tournament for my money.
And now we're done.
Bland tourney really.
Homo.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 02, 2012, 11:16:42 PM
Homo.
Glad to see all those years at Harvard paid off with that retort.
Final Languish Tourney Madness Standings:
Rank Bracket Points
1 Huggins Heroes 148
2 No Cats? 127
3 CK 113
4 Valmy's Bracket 111
5 *kat's who cares 110
6 Alexander's Bracket 70
7 Pullin' a Tim 66
8 Strix are for Kids 65
9 Ninjas they're out to get you 64
10 Puerto Rican Ninja Attacks! 56
11 sbr 47
12 Plaiceholder 3
13 HoyaDoin 0
13 HoyaDoin 0
Quote from: katmai on April 02, 2012, 10:51:45 PM
Bland tourney really.
I agree, the early rounds were not that great. But the final four was fun to watch and the final game was a real treat. Davis is getting a lot of comparisons to Russell. High praise but it just might be right.
Two 15 seeds and a 13 won. What more do you want from the early rounds?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 03, 2012, 09:26:06 AM
Two 15 seeds and a 13 won. What more do you want from the early rounds?
Good Basketball?
By chance I caught the last 40 seconds of the championship game. Glad the SEC team won.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 03, 2012, 09:28:02 AM
By chance I caught the last 40 seconds of the championship game. Glad the SEC team won.
The Big 12: foiled again :weep:
Heh actually Kansas has nothing to be ashamed of. Nobody was going to beat Kentucky.
And as expected the top two scorers from Huskies team are leaving early (one Sophmore and one Freshman) for NBA as both are being told will be top 20 picks.
I smell NIT in future!
Quote from: katmai on April 03, 2012, 07:40:23 PM
And as expected the top two scorers from Huskies team are leaving early (one Sophmore and one Freshman) for NBA as both are being told will be top 20 picks.
I smell NIT in future!
So status quo after losing the best two players, nice.
Quote from: sbr on April 03, 2012, 08:28:26 PM
Quote from: katmai on April 03, 2012, 07:40:23 PM
And as expected the top two scorers from Huskies team are leaving early (one Sophmore and one Freshman) for NBA as both are being told will be top 20 picks.
I smell NIT in future!
So status quo after losing the best two players, nice.
No more like I'll be happy if we get that far next year :P
Quote from: katmai on April 03, 2012, 07:40:23 PM
And as expected the top two scorers from Huskies team are leaving early (one Sophmore and one Freshman) for NBA as both are being told will be top 20 picks.
By my count, there are now 214 top-20 NBA picks for the upcoming draft. That new math is something!
Man how bad must Washington be to not even make the NCAA tournament despite having two of the best amateur players in the world?
Valmy this years huskies were totally against type of team Romar has cultivated in regards to defensive pressure and harassing opposition and creating fast break points.
Only other time in past decade they had such a team was the year of their other one and done hyped freshmen in Spencer Hawes...which just so happened to be the last time they failed to make NCAA in last 8 years.
I was more mocking the ridiculous number of guys from even mediocre college teams that leave early for the NBA draft. You would think there were 100 teams.
Well the two guys leaving will be NBA players. They both have talent to dominate games in college, but have enough stuff that coming back and spending year would have benefited them, but just not the way college ball works these days.
Half of Texas' team leaves early for the NBA every year. I guess a few of them are riding the pine someplace but man it sure gets hilarious. How can these first weekend exiting teams be so rich with NBA talent?
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2012, 10:09:04 AM
How can these first weekend exiting teams be so rich with NBA talent?
Isn't that pretty obvious? It happens constantly.
The criteria to get drafted in the NBA does not necessarilty translate into being a great college basketball player in your first year out of high school.
But the NBA prizes potential above almost all else, so plenty of guys who may very well be good NBA players go into the draft even though they may not really have dominated at the college level as freshman.
Quote from: Berkut on April 04, 2012, 10:11:04 AM
But the NBA prizes potential above almost all else, so plenty of guys who may very well be good NBA players go into the draft even though they may not really have dominated at the college level as freshman.
And many guys who do so will never play a minute in the real NBA.
It certainly can be argued that a player who gets on an NBA team, even in the D-league, will probably get better coaching, conditioning, and practice than he will by spending another year in college. That translates into a better chance to make a team, because teams would rather have a year-younger guy than a guy with a year more college experience, all else being equal.
I think we will see less and less of this in colleges in general, as teams like Kentucky become more and more explicitly NBA farm clubs for the one-and-done crowd, and teams like Washington become unable to compete for those kinds of players. Anyone with one-and-done talent would be foolish to not go to the one-year-NBA-farm-club college teams.
Quote from: grumbler on April 04, 2012, 08:58:46 AM
Quote from: katmai on April 03, 2012, 07:40:23 PM
And as expected the top two scorers from Huskies team are leaving early (one Sophmore and one Freshman) for NBA as both are being told will be top 20 picks.
By my count, there are now 214 top-20 NBA picks for the upcoming draft. That new math is something!
Seems to increase each year.
Whenever WVU has a guy who gets drafted (at any spot) I expect him to crash & burn in the NBA and end up playing in Italy or Turkey. I think Joe Alexander, who went 8th in the draft a few years ago, is stuck playing in Russia.
Ever since Jerry West, Rod Thorn & Hot Rod Hundley it's been pretty bleh.
Quote from: grumbler on April 04, 2012, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 04, 2012, 10:11:04 AM
But the NBA prizes potential above almost all else, so plenty of guys who may very well be good NBA players go into the draft even though they may not really have dominated at the college level as freshman.
And many guys who do so will never play a minute in the real NBA.
It certainly can be argued that a player who gets on an NBA team, even in the D-league, will probably get better coaching, conditioning, and practice than he will by spending another year in college. That translates into a better chance to make a team, because teams would rather have a year-younger guy than a guy with a year more college experience, all else being equal.
I think we will see less and less of this in colleges in general, as teams like Kentucky become more and more explicitly NBA farm clubs for the one-and-done crowd, and teams like Washington become unable to compete for those kinds of players. Anyone with one-and-done talent would be foolish to not go to the one-year-NBA-farm-club college teams.
All true.
I am curious to see how Arizona adapts. They are a school that can and has certainly recruited at the level to attract NBA talent, but has not really embraced that "Yeah, we are here to send you off to the NBA" culture that you see at Kentucky - I wonder if that means
A) Arizona will have to accept that if they want to return to the elite level in results, or
B) Arizona will focus more on tier 1B talent that is more likely to stick around a couple years in the hopes that a more balanced team with some leadership even if it isn't quite super star talent will win out over the freshman phenoms, or
C) All these predictions about the Kentucky model being the way to win turn out to be a bit over-stated, and really overall relying on freshman, no matter how talented, is not a recipe for consistent success, present results notwithstanding.
I do think the extreme of the Kentucky model is bad for the NCAA, bad for the NBA, and bad for the players as well (excepting the rare legit talents that it serves). The NCAA gets crappy basketball, the NBA gets a bunch of unproven kids, many of whom are just going to find out in the NBA that they are not quite as good as they thought instead of in college, and for every legit freshman who is going to get drafted and have a great career, there are a bunch of guys who THINK they are legit but are not, and end up screwing up their careers on the bad advice of others (or their own).
Not sure if there is a fix though.
Considering the minimum salary for an NBA player will easily pay for 4 years of college and that there's a chance of career-ending injury any time a player steps on the court, I don't see the down side to getting drafted as soon as the NBA wants you.
Berk,
When they instituted the one year rule what was the rationale for having only one year and not the full four years?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 04, 2012, 11:38:22 AM
Considering the minimum salary for an NBA player will easily pay for 4 years of college and that there's a chance of career-ending injury any time a player steps on the court, I don't see the down side to getting drafted as soon as the NBA wants you.
Greg Oden = LUCKIEST MAN ALIVE.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 04, 2012, 11:40:45 AM
Berk,
When they instituted the one year rule what was the rationale for having only one year and not the full four years?
I wish it was like college baseball where you can go to the pros right after high school but if you go to college you have to stay until you are 21 (or play three years whichever comes first). Requiring everybody to play one year is pretty stupid but hey it worked for Kentucky I guess.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 04, 2012, 11:42:17 AM
Greg Oden = LUCKIEST MAN ALIVE.
The Blazers make the Bengals look like draft masters.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 04, 2012, 11:40:45 AM
Berk,
When they instituted the one year rule what was the rationale for having only one year and not the full four years?
IIRC, it was more a matter of what they thought they could get away with than anything else - I think everyone would rather it be 2 or even 3 years, but it is not likely they could make that hold up in court when the players sue them.
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2012, 11:48:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 04, 2012, 11:42:17 AM
Greg Oden = LUCKIEST MAN ALIVE.
The Blazers Andy Dalton and AJ Green make the Bengals look like draft masters.
Fixed that for you :)
According to Valmy they have the rule in baseball although high school students can be drafted directly.
Was basketball different because the Universities wanted to ensure they would get at least one year of every NBA bound player?
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 04, 2012, 12:14:58 PM
According to Valmy they have the rule in baseball although high school students can be drafted directly.
Was basketball different because the Universities wanted to ensure they would get at least one year of every NBA bound player?
The history of the NBA eligibility requirements are somewhat complex.
Basically, it is the NCAA and NBA against the playes. Both the NBA and the NCAA would like to see players play in college for longer, and players don't want to be required to do so (for obvious reasons).
Right now, the rule is basically that you cannot be eligible for the draft until you are 19, and you cannot be eligible for the draft until you have been out of high school for one year. So there isn't any technical requirement to go to college for a year at all.
Wouldn't it actually be in the players' union's interests to require the up-and-comers to wait longer? I mean, sure they can empathize with the young guys, but they'll be taking their spots...
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 04, 2012, 12:14:58 PM
According to Valmy they have the rule in baseball although high school students can be drafted directly.
Was basketball different because the Universities wanted to ensure they would get at least one year of every NBA bound player?
There are alot of differences between the sports: 1. Baseball has a massive minor league system to park talented (and many not-so-talented) prospects. 2. Baseball has 30 teams and a 50 round draft so basically anybody worth a crap gets drafted. 3. Only the first round draft picks (most of the time) get any kind of money on draft day.
So the gamble is...do you go ahead and start the long and hard path through the minor leagues? Or do you go to College and see if you can hit pay dirt three years later with a high draft pick? Another important factor is there are few scholarships for male athletes outsides of Football and Basketball so unless you are some huge super star you are going to be paying for the privilege of playing College Baseball.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 04, 2012, 01:17:51 PM
Wouldn't it actually be in the players' union's interests to require the up-and-comers to wait longer? I mean, sure they can empathize with the young guys, but they'll be taking their spots...
Well, the union expresses the interests of the players, and plenty of the players emphasize with the up and comers - they were up and comers themselves, right?
But yeah, given that the total number of spots is fixed, it seems pretty obvious that it is not in anyone interests (players as a group included) to have more and more people eligible for those spots, such that the selection process simply means that more people will try for those spots, faill, and then no longer even be eligible for college basketball.
The problem is that it seems pretty hard to come up with a legal case for being able to tell particular people that they cannot play professional basketball.
The nfl made a pretty convincing one to Maurice clarett and mike Williams.
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2012, 01:29:24 PM
There are alot of differences between the sports: 1. Baseball has a massive minor league system to park talented (and many not-so-talented) prospects. 2. Baseball has 30 teams and a 50 round draft so basically anybody worth a crap gets drafted. 3. Only the first round draft picks (most of the time) get any kind of money on draft day.
Also, the potential career length of a baseball player is longer, so both players and clubs can wait that extra two years. In basketball, those two years represent a quarter to a fifth of the nominal NBA career.
I don't get the argument that one and done gives an unfair advantage to "Calipari type coaches." Are other coaches turning down potential recruits that are NBA-ready? Are they locking their freshmen in their dorm rooms on eligibility declaration day?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 04, 2012, 05:47:57 PM
I don't get the argument that one and done gives an unfair advantage to "Calipari type coaches." Are other coaches turning down potential recruits that are NBA-ready? Are they locking their freshmen in their dorm rooms on eligibility declaration day?
I don't think there is an argument that there is an unfair advantage, I think the argument is that the Kentucky/Calipari system, which is to basically just abandon even a pretense of there being anything academic or even collegiate about their basketball program, is an unfortunate direction for college basketball.
And if in fact that becomes the model for success, then of course others schools will either have to follow suit, or accept that in general they will not be able to compete with those schools that are willing to change the culture in that manner.
Abandoning this pretense will mean what in practice?
Less time studying maybe.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 05, 2012, 12:35:56 AM
Less time studying maybe.
Isn't academic eligibility imposed by the NCAA?
So they crack a few books first semester, blow off second semester, go to NBA. Coach looks other way at missed study sessions.
I'm not sure that's such a huge advantage. What is a big advantage is ability to recruit players who have no business being in college in the first place, let alone a best-in-state university.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 04, 2012, 11:42:17 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 04, 2012, 11:38:22 AM
Considering the minimum salary for an NBA player will easily pay for 4 years of college and that there's a chance of career-ending injury any time a player steps on the court, I don't see the down side to getting drafted as soon as the NBA wants you.
Greg Oden = LUCKIEST MAN ALIVE.
He's also the oldest young man alive.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 05, 2012, 12:39:40 AM
Isn't academic eligibility imposed by the NCAA?
Yes, but the assumption of the NCAA requirements is that the player is trying. The year that it takes to fail the NCAA eligibility requirements and exhaust all appeals is the only year the player will be pretending to be a student. By the time the player is definitely academically ineligible, he is ineligible by reason of not being an amateur.
The problem is the lack of a proper minor league system for the NBA. Calipari isn't the problem; he is a symptom.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 05, 2012, 01:15:52 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 04, 2012, 11:42:17 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 04, 2012, 11:38:22 AM
Considering the minimum salary for an NBA player will easily pay for 4 years of college and that there's a chance of career-ending injury any time a player steps on the court, I don't see the down side to getting drafted as soon as the NBA wants you.
Greg Oden = LUCKIEST MAN ALIVE.
He's also the oldest young man alive.
Yeah-- he looked like he was 40 when he was in college.