http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/index.html
Found this on a friend of a friend's facebook page. I'd heard about the initiative, but had not actually read much on it. Now, having read their debates and a bit on their push to include zygotes as human beings, I'm sorry I ever did. :yuk:
Law-talkers, what is the chance that this law - should it pass - would make it through the Supreme Court?
Every sperm is sacred (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk)
Quote from: Brazen on November 07, 2011, 07:59:11 AM
Every sperm is sacred (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk)
beat me to it :lol:
Quote from: merithyn on November 07, 2011, 07:45:52 AM
http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/index.html
Found this on a friend of a friend's facebook page. I'd heard about the initiative, but had not actually read much on it. Now, having read their debates and a bit on their push to include zygotes as human beings, I'm sorry I ever did. :yuk:
Law-talkers, what is the chance that this law - should it pass - would make it through the Supreme Court?
These people are advocating violence against doctors. Thanks for posting the link to crap like this. :yuk:
It's as if Slargos posted a link to some neonazi website advocating gassing of Jews and asked the "lawtalkers" about whether such law should be passed. Wtf were you thinking?
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2011, 08:12:51 AM
It's as if Slargos posted a link to some neonazi website advocating gassing of Jews and asked the "lawtalkers" about whether such law should be passed. Wtf were you thinking?
Another Martinus analogy! Thanks for adding some humour to the thread. :)
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2011, 08:12:51 AM
Quote from: merithyn on November 07, 2011, 07:45:52 AM
http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/index.html
Found this on a friend of a friend's facebook page. I'd heard about the initiative, but had not actually read much on it. Now, having read their debates and a bit on their push to include zygotes as human beings, I'm sorry I ever did. :yuk:
Law-talkers, what is the chance that this law - should it pass - would make it through the Supreme Court?
These people are advocating violence against doctors. Thanks for posting the link to crap like this. :yuk:
It's as if Slargos posted a link to some neonazi website advocating gassing of Jews and asked the "lawtalkers" about whether such law should be passed. Wtf were you thinking?
What we need, is an indicator on top of the forum to know wether you are having a good day or a bad day. Then, if you are having a good day, we know you are silent. If you have a bad day, we will just imagine a shit-spitting post by you in every thread.
Much more efficient for everyone involved.
Quote from: Brazen on November 07, 2011, 07:59:11 AM
Every sperm is sacred (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk)
And now you face a demographic collapse.
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2011, 08:12:51 AM
Quote from: merithyn on November 07, 2011, 07:45:52 AM
http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/index.html
Found this on a friend of a friend's facebook page. I'd heard about the initiative, but had not actually read much on it. Now, having read their debates and a bit on their push to include zygotes as human beings, I'm sorry I ever did. :yuk:
Law-talkers, what is the chance that this law - should it pass - would make it through the Supreme Court?
These people are advocating violence against doctors. Thanks for posting the link to crap like this. :yuk:
It's as if Slargos posted a link to some neonazi website advocating gassing of Jews and asked the "lawtalkers" about whether such law should be passed. Wtf were you thinking?
You advocate violence against people all the time. Christians, Jews, Muslims, people who don't wear enough perfume...
Quote from: merithyn on November 07, 2011, 07:45:52 AM
http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/index.html
Found this on a friend of a friend's facebook page. I'd heard about the initiative, but had not actually read much on it. Now, having read their debates and a bit on their push to include zygotes as human beings, I'm sorry I ever did. :yuk:
Law-talkers, what is the chance that this law - should it pass - would make it through the Supreme Court?
A leap forward in birth control is needed now to nip this in the bud. No accidental pregnancies: no problem.
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2011, 08:12:51 AM
These people are advocating violence against doctors. Thanks for posting the link to crap like this. :yuk:
It's as if Slargos posted a link to some neonazi website advocating gassing of Jews and asked the "lawtalkers" about whether such law should be passed. Wtf were you thinking?
And once again you show your lack of knowledge of US law (and the use of viable analogies). By the way, this isn't a fringe group in Mississippi. There is a law being bandied around in that state legistlature to do exactly as this website advocates, from what I understand; hence my question.
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2011, 08:50:03 AM
A leap forward in birth control is needed now to nip this in the bud. No accidental pregnancies: no problem.
I'm pretty sure texan teens are as irresponsible as non-texan teens.
Quote from: Viking on November 07, 2011, 12:06:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2011, 08:50:03 AM
A leap forward in birth control is needed now to nip this in the bud. No accidental pregnancies: no problem.
I'm pretty sure texan teens are as irresponsible as non-texan teens.
You would be wrong. They are far more irresponsible, at least according to teenage pregnancy rates.
Quote from: merithyn on November 07, 2011, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2011, 08:12:51 AM
These people are advocating violence against doctors. Thanks for posting the link to crap like this. :yuk:
It's as if Slargos posted a link to some neonazi website advocating gassing of Jews and asked the "lawtalkers" about whether such law should be passed. Wtf were you thinking?
And once again you show your lack of knowledge of US law (and the use of viable analogies). By the way, this isn't a fringe group in Mississippi. There is a law being bandied around in that state legistlature to do exactly as this website advocates, from what I understand; hence my question.
Your understanding is wrong. It's on the ballot tomorrow because the legislature refused to bring it out of committee in either house.
In my campaigning for justice court judge, people have only been interested in one thing: what do I think about prop 26 (the personhood initiative)? As an ethical, responsible libertarian pro-life Orthodox Christian attorney, it is wholly (morally, legally, fiscally, ecumenically, etc.) irresponsible to pass this amendment to our state's constitution.
It's an unconstitutional restriction on the privacy rights of persons engaged in the use of birth control, IVF, and abortion; it's an undue burden on abortion, under the current standard post-Casey; and finally, it's legally unenforceable. You're creating a legal standard of personhood wherein a person is not detectable by science except through highly invasive diagnostic procedures for a period of up to six or eight weeks. A lot of shit can happen to a fetus during that time, when the woman may not even know she is pregnant.
I look forward to my taxpayer suit I've got ready to go to free all incarcerated pregnant women from jail in MS, because the state can't afford 14th Amendment mandated prenatal care. Additionally, any pregnant illegal has an anchor fetus.
This is gonna be awesome. Nay, it'll be OSSUM.
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2011, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: Viking on November 07, 2011, 12:06:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2011, 08:50:03 AM
A leap forward in birth control is needed now to nip this in the bud. No accidental pregnancies: no problem.
I'm pretty sure texan teens are as irresponsible as non-texan teens.
You would be wrong. They are far more irresponsible, at least according to teenage pregnancy rates.
Turns out that having sex while practicing abstinence is not the most effective birth control method. :hmm:
An anchor fetus would be awesome. Something out of a horror story.
Quote from: Scipio on November 07, 2011, 12:55:48 PM
Your understanding is wrong. It's on the ballot tomorrow because the legislature refused to bring it out of committee in either house.
Only slightly wrong. It isn't a fringe group if it's made it onto the ballot and it's been bandied about in legislature. :contract:
Quote
In my campaigning for justice court judge, people have only been interested in one thing: what do I think about prop 26 (the personhood initiative)? As an ethical, responsible libertarian pro-life Orthodox Christian attorney, it is wholly (morally, legally, fiscally, ecumenically, etc.) irresponsible to pass this amendment to our state's constitution.
It's an unconstitutional restriction on the privacy rights of persons engaged in the use of birth control, IVF, and abortion; it's an undue burden on abortion, under the current standard post-Casey; and finally, it's legally unenforceable. You're creating a legal standard of personhood wherein a person is not detectable by science except through highly invasive diagnostic procedures for a period of up to six or eight weeks. A lot of shit can happen to a fetus during that time, when the woman may not even know she is pregnant.
I look forward to my taxpayer suit I've got ready to go to free all incarcerated pregnant women from jail in MS, because the state can't afford 14th Amendment mandated prenatal care. Additionally, any pregnant illegal has an anchor fetus.
This is gonna be awesome. Nay, it'll be OSSUM.
Very pleased to hear this. Question regarding your campaign: how is your response being taken by the constituents? Are they pleased to hear your stance or no?
Anyone with a lot of money can get something on the ballot in Missouri. You just have to hire a bunch of people to take signatures.
Quote from: merithyn on November 07, 2011, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: Scipio on November 07, 2011, 12:55:48 PM
Your understanding is wrong. It's on the ballot tomorrow because the legislature refused to bring it out of committee in either house.
Only slightly wrong. It isn't a fringe group if it's made it onto the ballot and it's been bandied about in legislature. :contract:
Quote
In my campaigning for justice court judge, people have only been interested in one thing: what do I think about prop 26 (the personhood initiative)? As an ethical, responsible libertarian pro-life Orthodox Christian attorney, it is wholly (morally, legally, fiscally, ecumenically, etc.) irresponsible to pass this amendment to our state's constitution.
It's an unconstitutional restriction on the privacy rights of persons engaged in the use of birth control, IVF, and abortion; it's an undue burden on abortion, under the current standard post-Casey; and finally, it's legally unenforceable. You're creating a legal standard of personhood wherein a person is not detectable by science except through highly invasive diagnostic procedures for a period of up to six or eight weeks. A lot of shit can happen to a fetus during that time, when the woman may not even know she is pregnant.
I look forward to my taxpayer suit I've got ready to go to free all incarcerated pregnant women from jail in MS, because the state can't afford 14th Amendment mandated prenatal care. Additionally, any pregnant illegal has an anchor fetus.
This is gonna be awesome. Nay, it'll be OSSUM.
Very pleased to hear this. Question regarding your campaign: how is your response being taken by the constituents? Are they pleased to hear your stance or no?
Everyone who's asked me about it has been against the initiative.
Life begins at 50.
These people are hilariously insane:
http://www.ajc.com/news/gwinnett/fetus-dolls-at-trick-1219703.html
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2011, 01:01:29 PM
An anchor fetus would be awesome. Something out of a horror story.
Oh, whoops, I fell down the stairs again... and oh.. drat.. I aborted this time. Then there was the chick that drank draino.. recreationally and surprise surprise, she aborted.
http://www.salon.com/2011/11/08/personhoods_mississippi_moment_of_truth/
In other news, our local talk radio supernetwork, which is rabidly GOP, has a facebook poll on Prop 26, where 5500 of their 8200 fans have voted on it; it's about 60/40 against.
And their loudest and biggest host is bloviating on Prop 26 in a horrendously stupid way. Sigh.
Voter turnout is fucking huge, though. Right now, based on non-partisan polling conducted by the social scientists at USM, I am essentially neck and neck with the GOP guy.
But polls are unreliable at best. I hope my public position against Prop 26 is helpful to me.
Incidentally, is "abortion tourism" popular in the US states that restrict abortion? In Poland (which has one of the stricter abortion laws in Europe), anyone with enough cash simply travels over to Germany or Czech Republic and gets the procedure. I wonder if this is also the case in the US (assuming you actually have strict abortion laws there, and all of this is not just a constant failed attempt by the religious reich to overturn Roe vs. Wade)?
Quote from: Martinus on November 08, 2011, 01:00:16 PM
Incidentally, is "abortion tourism" popular in the US states that restrict abortion? In Poland (which has one of the stricter abortion laws in Europe), anyone with enough cash simply travels over to Germany or Czech Republic and gets the procedure. I wonder if this is also the case in the US (assuming you actually have strict abortion laws there, and all of this is not just a constant failed attempt by the religious reich to overturn Roe vs. Wade)?
I know of a few girls who drove from Iowa to Nebraska years ago for an abortion. Not because the laws were all that different, but to avoid any chance their parents would find out. Plus, it was a little cheaper. I would guess that, depending on where a person lives, this isn't unusual. Especially now that some states require under-aged girls to have parental consent to get an abortion.
Quote from: Scipio on November 08, 2011, 12:38:05 PM
Voter turnout is fucking huge, though. Right now, based on non-partisan polling conducted by the social scientists at USM, I am essentially neck and neck with the GOP guy.
But polls are unreliable at best. I hope my public position against Prop 26 is helpful to me.
Good luck, Scip. I truly hope you make it this time. :)
Quote from: Martinus on November 08, 2011, 01:00:16 PM
Incidentally, is "abortion tourism" popular in the US states that restrict abortion? In Poland (which has one of the stricter abortion laws in Europe), anyone with enough cash simply travels over to Germany or Czech Republic and gets the procedure. I wonder if this is also the case in the US (assuming you actually have strict abortion laws there, and all of this is not just a constant failed attempt by the religious reich to overturn Roe vs. Wade)?
It's not prohibited in any US state.
Referendum failed. :)
Quote from: Razgovory on November 08, 2011, 03:50:07 PMIt's not prohibited in any US state.
It doesn't really answer my question. I assume abortion laws differ between states?
Common sense won in Mississippi last night. Who knew Mississippi had it in them?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2011, 06:52:59 AM
Common sense won in Mississippi last night. Who knew Mississippi had it in them?
No one, not even them.
Welcome Back CashDuke.
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2011, 06:23:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 08, 2011, 03:50:07 PMIt's not prohibited in any US state.
It doesn't really answer my question. I assume abortion laws differ between states?
Abortion is legal in every US state, but some states have laws designed to make it more difficult to get one than others. Roe v. Wade essentially forced all states to allow abortion.
Quote from: Caliga on November 09, 2011, 07:25:01 AM
Roe v. Wade essentially forced all states to allow abortion.
Fetustard.
Scipio - how'd you do?
Quote from: Barrister on November 09, 2011, 10:28:52 AM
Scipio - how'd you do?
If I found the right results, Scipio lost.
If he wants to win in Mississippi Amscip needs to change his name to something that doesn't make him sound like the Antichrist in a Christian rapture novel.
What does a District Supervisor do?
I lost, but so did personhood, so I don't feel so bad.
Quote from: Caliga on November 09, 2011, 07:25:01 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2011, 06:23:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 08, 2011, 03:50:07 PMIt's not prohibited in any US state.
It doesn't really answer my question. I assume abortion laws differ between states?
Abortion is legal in every US state, but some states have laws designed to make it more difficult to get one than others. Roe v. Wade essentially forced all states to allow abortion.
There are no restrictions e.g. on the age of the fetus? Can you abort an 8 months old fetus? If not then you are prohibiting abortion to an extent and that's my point.
That procedure is very rare. I'm not sure most clinics can even do it. Calling it an "abortion holiday" would be deceptive. It would be like traveling to a different part of the country to get a rare cancer treated and calling it a "Cancer holiday".
I think I read somewhere that there are like 3 doctors left in the country who perform late term abortions.
Quote from: ulmont on November 09, 2011, 10:34:22 AM
Quote from: Barrister on November 09, 2011, 10:28:52 AM
Scipio - how'd you do?
If I found the right results, Scipio lost.
his local paper has him losing 3 to 1 in votes
Did the Personhood Initiative deal with the issue of twins?
The issue being that identical twins split after conception. Do they share personhood? If one can aquire personhood after conception, can a flesh golem or frankensteins monster be a person?
Quote from: Viking on November 11, 2011, 07:03:53 PM
Did the Personhood Initiative deal with the issue of twins?
The issue being that identical twins split after conception. Do they share personhood? If one can aquire personhood after conception, can a flesh golem or frankensteins monster be a person?
Why would it? It's not even law.