Reading an old article about Channel 4's rather good reporter, Lindsey Hilsum, I was rather struck by here conclusion to the interview. So do you agree with her ?
The article is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2006/may/28/features.magazine17 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2006/may/28/features.magazine17)
Quote
Lindsey Hilsum
Foreign correspondent, 47, London
The Observer, Sunday 28 May 2006
Having grey hair is a good thing. I am taken more seriously, partly because it's obvious you've been around a fair bit. The notion that television only likes young women is not true.
My first story came from Central America. I wandered over by myself, typed it up and posted it to The Guardian. It was published several months later because it took a while to get there.
The process of growing older is of forcing yourself to remain open-minded. The easiest thing to be is close-minded, to think that you know it all because you've been there. Some people drive me mad. They sit and theorise, finding a story to fit their beliefs. That's totally wrong.
To go out and start reporting is much more difficult and dangerous than it was. Iraq is the most dangerous conflict any of us have covered.
What gets me about Iraq is that everybody I knew there before the war wanted it, because they said nothing could be worse than living under Saddam. We had a government minder called Mohammed. He was very happy when the Americans came into Baghdad. Within a day he had to save the life of a little girl who had been shot by the US Marines. In December 2004 he was kidnapped as he was preparing for his wedding. I haven't heard from him since.
I dealt with those early days in Rwanda at the start of the genocide on my own. That taught me that I can cope in an emergency by myself. You witness the depths of what humanity can do and you know it's nothing to do with race or religion, it's a deeply human thing.
The worst journalists are people who go to places knowing what's right and what's wrong, which side is good and which is bad. You have to be prepared to have your expectations overthrown.
Under pressure, people will murder their neighbours because they are told to do so. Few people will resist that. People would say, 'Gosh, if you'd been one of those Hutus in a village do you think you would have been the one to stand up and say no?' As an article of faith you would have to say yes, you believe you would've stood up and done the right thing. I didn't need psychological help, I needed philosophical help, because that left me completely blank.
If you see lots of really dreadful things it distances you from people who have not.
I recently told my taxi driver I'm off to Paris because I'm fed up with visiting tough places. He said: 'You really are the chief person of horrible visiting.' I thought: that's my epitaph, isn't it?
I have a Rwandan friend who is a survivor of the genocide. Her whole family was murdered. She did a course in counselling students. I asked her how she could cope with students whingeing about their boyfriends and so on. She said, 'There is no hierarchy of pain. You mustn't judge that somebody else has suffered more.' One tries to learn from such an amazing outlook.
Journalism only scratches the surface. Certain things can only be expressed in, say, poetry or drama. Frequently I'm in situations where I see human dilemmas and if I had the ability to write poetry I would be able to express this much better.
Working as a foreign correspondent is like being unfaithful - I feel guilty about stories and people I leave behind. Iraq most of all. Rwanda too. I don't forget, but essentially journalists move on. It's always a search for something new. Now I'm uprooting and going to be Channel 4 News's Beijing correspondent. So I'm starting from scratch again in China. I have a knot in my stomach, but maybe it's good to be frightened again.
Psychologically I'm quite optimistic and philosophically I'm quite pessimistic, which sort of means one carries on. Politically, things can be done, genocide can be prevented and individuals can learn from history. Fundamentally, though, humankind is pretty crap.
Quote from: mongers on August 29, 2011, 06:47:38 PM
my taxi driver
Personal driver or had she just been running her mouth a lot on the trip? :hmm:
I concur. It's crap.
Quote'There is no hierarchy of pain. You mustn't judge that somebody else has suffered more.'
Sure you can.
Sounds like the person has a guilty conscience. Find a different line of work.
'Certain things can only be expressed in poetry'?
This person represents everything that is wrong in the world.
Lefty bitch full of herself.
As a Christian, sure, my positiion is that we're all sinners, else why would we need a saviour?
To keep the opium flowing.
Quote from: Zoupa on August 29, 2011, 10:03:20 PM
To keep the opium flowing.
Sometimes your Europeanism makes me throw up in my mouth.
Quote from: dps on August 29, 2011, 09:58:18 PM
As a Christian, sure, my positiion is that we're all sinners, else why would we need a saviour?
I think you're approaching the question from the wrong angle.
Fundamentally, humanity is all we fucking have. People who are down on humanity are spending too much fucking time worrying about other fucking people, and not enough time solving their own problems. Hullman needs a Dr. Phil moment.
Humanity is pretty crap compared to what exactly?
That's the kind of profound insight I'd expect from a slightly inebriated first year university student.
Quote from: Jacob on August 30, 2011, 12:11:39 AM
That's the kind of profound insight I'd expect from a slightly inebriated first year university student.
I'm not drunk.
Quote from: mongers on August 29, 2011, 06:47:38 PM
Psychologically I'm quite optimistic and philosophically I'm quite pessimistic, which sort of means one carries on. Politically, things can be done, genocide can be prevented and individuals can learn from history. Fundamentally, though, humankind is pretty crap.
I can't but agree. Of course, I don't see genocide as a negativism, but other than that? Sure.
I've come to the conclusion that for all my cynical bluster, at heart I am an unbridled optimist. I was taken aback the other day when a new colleague responded to my assertion that since we'd
made an agreement of course I was going to hold up my end of it, with "I don't know you, so how can I trust you?" I realize that since I work from the assumption that others are trustworthy until proven otherwise, I also expect them to hold the same expectations of me.
That said, I skipped to the end so I don't know what else she said. :D
Quote from: Scipio on August 29, 2011, 10:20:09 PM
Fundamentally, humanity is all we fucking have. People who are down on humanity are spending too much fucking time worrying about other fucking people, and not enough time solving their own problems. Hullman needs a Dr. Phil moment.
And what if other people are the fucking problem? (as is usually the case)
Life is pretty violent and nasty.
Humans though are amongst the nicest animals out there.
Quote from: dps on August 29, 2011, 09:58:18 PM
As a Christian, sure, my positiion is that we're all sinners, else why would we need a saviour?
Yes, but we are also higher than the angels (at least potentially) and also made in the image of God. We are flawed, but as Scipio says, also the only game in town. Without humanity there would be nothing beautiful either made or observed, just a stupid dumb machine. I think it's very easy sink into the negativism quoted in the piece, might even agree with her on a bad day, but my considered view (after a cup of tea and my stocks are up) is that humanity is terribly flawed but also very precious.
Quote from: Tyr on August 30, 2011, 02:27:07 AM
Humans though are amongst the nicest animals out there.
TheBrain will disagree.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 30, 2011, 02:58:56 AM
Quote from: dps on August 29, 2011, 09:58:18 PM
As a Christian, sure, my positiion is that we're all sinners, else why would we need a saviour?
Yes, but we are also higher than the angels (at least potentially) and also made in the image of God. We are flawed, but as Scipio says, also the only game in town. Without humanity there would be nothing beautiful either made or observed, just a stupid dumb machine. I think it's very easy sink into the negativism quoted in the piece, might even agree with her on a bad day, but my considered view (after a cup of tea and my stocks are up) is that humanity is terribly flawed but also very precious.
It's obvious that you've never played World of Tanks.
Quote from: Scipio on August 29, 2011, 10:20:09 PM
Fundamentally, humanity is all we fucking have. People who are down on humanity are spending too much fucking time worrying about other fucking people, and not enough time solving their own problems. Hullman needs a Dr. Phil moment.
And life isn't short, it's the longest thing you'll ever experience.
It's still relative.
Life is too short to waste on meaningless things, even if it's the longest.
Similarily, since most people are morally corrupt, humanity as a whole is flawed.
I've always found the argument "it's the best we've got" to be terribly insipid. "We can stop trying because we haven't achieved anything better yet." Jesus. Fucking. Christ. Where is your goddamned ambition, you cretinous fiends! :mad:
Quote from: Razgovory on August 29, 2011, 11:26:03 PM
Humanity is pretty crap compared to what exactly?
Bonobos know how to live.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 29, 2011, 11:26:03 PM
Humanity is pretty crap compared to what exactly?
Compared with what it could be. Or should be.
Quote from: Monoriu on August 30, 2011, 04:34:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 29, 2011, 11:26:03 PM
Humanity is pretty crap compared to what exactly?
Compared with what it could be. Or should be.
Everything is crap compared to a non-existant ideal which is imaginable. That's not a very useful stance to take though.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 04:23:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 29, 2011, 11:26:03 PM
Humanity is pretty crap compared to what exactly?
Bonobos know how to live.
The fuck everything that moves, yes.
Quote from: Neil on August 29, 2011, 07:06:13 PM
'Certain things can only be expressed in poetry'?
This person represents everything that is wrong in the world.
Life itself is poetry. But, unfortunately, like written poetry a lot of life can be pretty shitty & painful to sit through. In the end, we're all left with the choice of dwelling on & bitching about the shitty stuff or admiring (and helping create?) The Good Stuff. I think that most of us would like to say that we prefer #2, but this forum itself illustrates how fun #1 can be -- sort of our own MST2000 for the shitty poetry of life & shit. Or something...
:ccr
Quote from: Tyr on August 30, 2011, 02:27:07 AM
Humans though are amongst the nicest animals out there.
That's bullshit.
You know, Tyr, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2011, 05:13:16 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 30, 2011, 02:27:07 AM
Humans though are amongst the nicest animals out there.
That's bullshit.
You know, Tyr, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage.
:lol: animals are full of jealousy and agression just like we are.
I am not sure that our chimpanzee-like nature is the most optimal to build a civilization (eg. wolves might have been better, if given proper limbs and speech), but the differences aren't dramatic
Quote from: Martinus on August 30, 2011, 03:04:23 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 30, 2011, 02:27:07 AM
Humans though are amongst the nicest animals out there.
TheBrain will disagree.
Where did these rumors come from anyway? :hmm:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 30, 2011, 06:40:36 AM
Where did these rumors come from anyway? :hmm:
Scientific research into animal communication.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 30, 2011, 06:40:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 30, 2011, 03:04:23 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 30, 2011, 02:27:07 AM
Humans though are amongst the nicest animals out there.
TheBrain will disagree.
Where did these rumors come from anyway? :hmm:
Do you really want to know or are you just making conversation?
Quote from: Martinus on August 30, 2011, 05:05:36 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 04:23:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 29, 2011, 11:26:03 PM
Humanity is pretty crap compared to what exactly?
Bonobos know how to live.
The fuck everything that moves, yes.
Yes, but chimps are really ugly. I don't want to have sex with chimps.
Quote from: The Brain on August 30, 2011, 07:12:25 AM
Do you really want to know or are you just making conversation?
Yes.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 07:16:29 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 30, 2011, 05:05:36 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 04:23:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 29, 2011, 11:26:03 PM
Humanity is pretty crap compared to what exactly?
Bonobos know how to live.
The fuck everything that moves, yes.
Yes, but chimps are really ugly. I don't want to have sex with chimps.
Bonobos (pan paniscus) aren't chimps (pan troglodytes).
That doesn't negate my statement. Besides, aren't all animals in the genus Pan chimps?
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 07:43:49 AM
That doesn't negate my statement. Besides, aren't all animals in the genus Pan chimps?
The point is, we should live like bonobos.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 07:46:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 07:43:49 AM
That doesn't negate my statement. Besides, aren't all animals in the genus Pan chimps?
The point is, we should live like bonobos.
Why? I don't want to live in a Matriarchy, have sex with chimps, fence with my dick, or get eaten by Africans.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 12:13:28 AM
Quote from: Jacob on August 30, 2011, 12:11:39 AM
That's the kind of profound insight I'd expect from a slightly inebriated first year university student.
I'm not drunk.
Not you, the article.
Um yes humans do horrible things but tons of people also do good and noble things. I guess if you focus on one you can come to either conclusion.
I mean few of the Rwandans who resisted the genocide are around to talk about it, after all.
I agree that sometimes humans do in fact do horrible things, like writing the piece quoted in the OP.
Fundamentally, humankind is pretty fucking awesome. :)
I don't think people are very qualified to judge in this matter, we have a personal bias.
Ducks, wolves, and elephants do pretty horrible things as well. Even cats sometimes eat their own babies.
Humans are the only species with the cerebral capacity and the galls to create this abstract worldview that they should hold themselves to a better standard than other animal species, rather than accept that we have aggressive behaviors driven by instinct. We wouldn't survive without that instinct.
OK, Seduction Community.
Draks was a great post.
Quote from: Jacob on August 30, 2011, 12:11:39 AM
That's the kind of profound insight I'd expect from a slightly inebriated first year university student.
I am not sure first year students are as self absorbed as this.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 04:23:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 29, 2011, 11:26:03 PM
Humanity is pretty crap compared to what exactly?
Bonobos know how to live.
Dammit, we should cover you in a full body wig and throw you in a cage at the zoo already. :lol:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 30, 2011, 01:46:20 PM
Draks was a great post.
Oh, bullshit.
We have survived by repressing that instinct; in fact, we've thrived by surpressing it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2011, 06:11:54 PM
Oh, bullshit.
We have survived by repressing that instinct; in fact, we've thrived by surpressing it.
:huh:
We've
channeled that instinct, not repressed it. Instead of clubbing people on the head, we think up weapons that can kill millions in one shot.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2011, 06:11:54 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 30, 2011, 01:46:20 PM
Draks was a great post.
Oh, bullshit.
We have survived by repressing that instinct; in fact, we've thrived by surpressing it.
Besides Drakken is more than just a great post. He is a member of a species that sits atop the evolutionary ladder looking down on the rest that didnt quite make it to the top - yet.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 30, 2011, 06:17:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2011, 06:11:54 PM
Oh, bullshit.
We have survived by repressing that instinct; in fact, we've thrived by surpressing it.
:huh:
We've channeled that instinct, not repressed it. Instead of clubbing people on the head, we think up weapons that can kill millions in one shot.
We have repressed it. Just think of how many of Marti's posts you have read then consider the fact he is still here to continue posting
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 07:54:43 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 07:46:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 07:43:49 AM
That doesn't negate my statement. Besides, aren't all animals in the genus Pan chimps?
The point is, we should live like bonobos.
Why? I don't want to live in a Matriarchy, have sex with chimps, fence with my dick, or get eaten by Africans.
Okay, we should live like Bonobos, but keep our guns and colonialism. The hirsute man's burden.
Still don't know why you say that.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 30, 2011, 06:17:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2011, 06:11:54 PM
Oh, bullshit.
We have survived by repressing that instinct; in fact, we've thrived by surpressing it.
:huh:
We've channeled that instinct, not repressed it. Instead of clubbing people on the head, we think up weapons that can kill millions in one shot.
:huh: Do you know what the word "instinct" even means?
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 06:35:11 PM
Still don't know why you say that.
Because sex is more fun and generally more constructive than violence, unless aircraft are involved.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 07:27:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 06:35:11 PM
Still don't know why you say that.
Because sex is more fun and generally more constructive than violence, unless aircraft are involved.
Wait, aircraft involved in violence, or involved in sex?
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 30, 2011, 07:46:06 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 07:27:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 06:35:11 PM
Still don't know why you say that.
Because sex is more fun and generally more constructive than violence, unless aircraft are involved.
Wait, aircraft involved in violence, or involved in sex?
I think he's saying he'd rather be in a fight than join the mile-high club. Must think the bathrooms are too small.
All the killing and other nastyness is just life. Humans as animals, are prone to it just like 99% of other animals out there.
Humans however are quite unique in overcoming our base instincts.
Sure, we`re bloody good at killing when we do do it, which of course leads to all the crap about humans being particularly evil, but we`re pretty unique in controlling our selfishness and need to kill and whatnot. You don`t see wolf packs signing peace treaties with each other, its an eternal battle there.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 07:27:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2011, 06:35:11 PM
Still don't know why you say that.
Because sex is more fun and generally more constructive than violence, unless aircraft are involved.
Bonobos engage in violence.
Quote from: grumbler on August 30, 2011, 07:12:50 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 30, 2011, 06:17:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2011, 06:11:54 PM
Oh, bullshit.
We have survived by repressing that instinct; in fact, we've thrived by surpressing it.
:huh:
We've channeled that instinct, not repressed it. Instead of clubbing people on the head, we think up weapons that can kill millions in one shot.
:huh: Do you know what the word "instinct" even means?
It means a bad smell on the inside. :)
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 30, 2011, 01:46:20 PM
Draks was a great post.
Too bad he never evolved to a great poster. :(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2011, 06:11:54 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 30, 2011, 01:46:20 PM
Draks was a great post.
Oh, bullshit.
We have survived by repressing that instinct; in fact, we've thrived by surpressing it.
hells yeah.
Quote from: Tyr on August 30, 2011, 02:27:07 AM
Life is pretty violent and nasty.
Humans though are amongst the nicest animals out there.
I am not an animal.
Quote from: Siege on September 01, 2011, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 30, 2011, 02:27:07 AM
Life is pretty violent and nasty.
Humans though are amongst the nicest animals out there.
I am not an animal.
You're certainly not a plant or a bacteria. I think 'animal' is an appropriate grouping.
I am a human being!
Wonder if siege read the thread title before posting . . .
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 01, 2011, 08:53:07 PM
Wonder if siege read the thread title before posting . . .
Something about a foot in Vancouver?