Reading Peter Green's Alexander to Actium. Maybe the best work of history I've ever read.
Looking for something similar on Italy up to the Late Republic, anything on any period of pre-Islamic Persia, and anything on pre-Mongol China. I'm also buying everything I can find by Green on Amazon.
Suggestions?
Quote from: Queequeg on July 12, 2011, 03:51:27 PM
Suggestions?
Stop reading so many history books? :P
Armada from Athens. Has all the fun stuff. Wacky Athenians to cheap ass Spartans.
http://www.amazon.com/Armada-Athens-Crossroads-world-history/dp/B0006C4WOM
Which kind of history within those areas interests you the most?
Quote from: The Brain on July 12, 2011, 04:14:35 PM
Which kind of history within those areas interests you the most?
In Italy, cultural, ethnic and military. Interested in the formation of a Roman ethnicity, the founding of the city, kingdom and Republic, assimilation of Etruscan culture and Samnite fighting styles, etc...Anything great on the Etruscans would be a godsend.
Actually, if anyone knows anything interesting on any pre-Roman Anatolian polities (the Hittite Kingdom, Pergamon, Pontus, Lydia), that'd be awesome too.
China and Persia, more cultural, religious and economic.
A couple of years ago I read Cornell's The Beginnings of Rome: Italy and Rome from the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars (c. 1000-264 BC). It was totally OK IIRC, books about that period are not as common as I would prefer so I found it informative.
Edit: A problem here is that it includes quite a bit of Roman political history.
Edit 2: Meh, not that much. I say it seems pretty nice for you.
Not in your categories, but I've recently been enjoying Tarn's The Greeks in Bactria and India.
Quote from: citizen k on July 12, 2011, 05:35:01 PM
Not in your categories, but I've recently been enjoying Tarn's The Greeks in Bactria and India.
Oh holy fuck. You know how long I've been looking for a book on Bactria?
Somebody's pants is a dairy factory.
:lol:
Psellus is kind of lame. If I go to the Books section on Amazon and type in Bactria - that Tarn book is the first hit. :huh:
It was also published in 1966..
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2011, 08:18:52 PM
Psellus is kind of lame. If I go to the Books section on Amazon and type in Bactria - that Tarn book is the first hit. :huh:
It was also published in 1966..
I doubt Bactria has had a lot happening since 1966, so that is probably okay.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 12, 2011, 08:26:51 PM
I doubt Bactria has had a lot happening since 1966, so that is probably okay.
On the other hand, scholarship has advanced in many areas since then.
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2011, 08:34:48 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 12, 2011, 08:26:51 PM
I doubt Bactria has had a lot happening since 1966, so that is probably okay.
On the other hand, scholarship has advanced in many areas since then.
If I am going to read books about antiquity centered in that part of the world, I'm not so concerned about a somewhat old date of publication. The instability has kept away a lot of the archeology, so the scholarship is somewhat frozen in time.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 12, 2011, 08:38:37 PM
If I am going to read books about antiquity centered in that part of the world, I'm not so concerned about a somewhat old date of publication. The instability has kept away a lot of the archeology, so the scholarship is somewhat frozen in time.
You're right. There have been no discoveries in remote areas since the '60s. Nor have their been any shift in attitudes that may help or hinder understanding of what we do have in archeological records.
Anyway, before we went down the rabbit hole, I should have stated that my issue with the date was more in line with how hard he has been looking for a book. Top hit by keyword on Amazon and was published 45 years ago. :P
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 12, 2011, 07:57:55 PM
Somebody's pants is a dairy factory.
Bactria growth can be right nasty.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 12, 2011, 08:26:51 PM
I doubt Bactria has had a lot happening since 1966, so that is probably okay.
Ai Khanoum would have been unknown to Tarn.
I always wanted to find a good book on Cortez and the fall of the Aztecs. Everything I find is about how evil Europeans crushed a beautiful native culture. Bleh.
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2011, 08:18:52 PM
Psellus is kind of lame. If I go to the Books section on Amazon and type in Bactria - that Tarn book is the first hit. :huh:
It was also published in 1966..
This is fair, actually. Given the near-total dearth of literature on Sassanian and Parthian Persia, I presumed that the literature on the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom was similarly limited. Seems that was flawed.
I've seen a lot of books on Alexander's campaign, but few on Bactria before. Now I'm getting two for my birthday, I think.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2011, 11:41:09 PM
I always wanted to find a good book on Cortez and the fall of the Aztecs. Everything I find is about how evil Europeans crushed a beautiful native culture. Bleh.
It's not like Cortez has a great deal of stuff in his favor. :P
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2011, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 12, 2011, 08:38:37 PM
If I am going to read books about antiquity centered in that part of the world, I'm not so concerned about a somewhat old date of publication. The instability has kept away a lot of the archeology, so the scholarship is somewhat frozen in time.
You're right. There have been no discoveries in remote areas since the '60s. Nor have their been any shift in attitudes that may help or hinder understanding of what we do have in archeological records.
It isn't that they are remote, it is that they are dangerous. I'm reading a book on Elam (mostly Iran, but also parts of Iraq), and the archeology basically ended about 30 years ago. That may be more extreme than Bactria, but I doubt Afghanistan, Pakistan, and some of the sketchy-est parts of the former USSR had a lot of digs going on.
As for a shift in attitudes, that isn't such a big deal. Bactria is an obscure enough topic the number of researchers is probably quite limited anyway, and the books are going to present a sizeable chunk of archeological evidence. You can come to your own conclusions, especially if you are familiar with current thought on the general era (as I assume spellus is).
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2011, 11:44:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2011, 11:41:09 PM
I always wanted to find a good book on Cortez and the fall of the Aztecs. Everything I find is about how evil Europeans crushed a beautiful native culture. Bleh.
It's not like Cortez has a great deal of stuff in his favor. :P
He won.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 12, 2011, 11:53:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2011, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 12, 2011, 08:38:37 PM
If I am going to read books about antiquity centered in that part of the world, I'm not so concerned about a somewhat old date of publication. The instability has kept away a lot of the archeology, so the scholarship is somewhat frozen in time.
You're right. There have been no discoveries in remote areas since the '60s. Nor have their been any shift in attitudes that may help or hinder understanding of what we do have in archeological records.
It isn't that they are remote, it is that they are dangerous. I'm reading a book on Elam (mostly Iran, but also parts of Iraq), and the archeology basically ended about 30 years ago. That may be more extreme than Bactria, but I doubt Afghanistan, Pakistan, and some of the sketchy-est parts of the former USSR had a lot of digs going on.
As for a shift in attitudes, that isn't such a big deal. Bactria is an obscure enough topic the number of researchers is probably quite limited anyway, and the books are going to present a sizeable chunk of archeological evidence. You can come to your own conclusions, especially if you are familiar with current thought on the general era (as I assume spellus is).
Right, well have fun with those delusions.
Quote from: garbon on July 13, 2011, 12:23:14 AM
Right, well have fun with those delusions.
What delusions are those?
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2011, 11:41:09 PM
I always wanted to find a good book on Cortez and the fall of the Aztecs. Everything I find is about how evil Europeans crushed a beautiful native culture. Bleh.
Did you read
The Conquest of New Spain by Diaz?
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2011, 11:44:55 PM
It's not like Cortez has a great deal of stuff in his favor. :P
He had God on his side. :pope:
The cannons didn't hurt either.
QuoteI'm reading a book on Elam
Name? Any good?
Anybody got a recommendation for books on the Foreign Legion?
Quote from: Queequeg on July 13, 2011, 09:10:30 AM
QuoteI'm reading a book on Elam
Name? Any good?
I'm kind of interested as well. There's very little written about Elam. Is their language even translated?
Quote from: Queequeg on July 12, 2011, 11:41:58 PM
This is fair, actually. Given the near-total dearth of literature on Sassanian and Parthian Persia, I presumed that the literature on the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom was similarly limited. Seems that was flawed.
I've seen a lot of books on Alexander's campaign, but few on Bactria before. Now I'm getting two for my birthday, I think.
The Parthians left behind almost no written documents, I believe, so all we know of them comes from Romans and Indians.
A dearth of information on the Sassanids is more puzzling.
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2011, 11:44:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2011, 11:41:09 PM
I always wanted to find a good book on Cortez and the fall of the Aztecs. Everything I find is about how evil Europeans crushed a beautiful native culture. Bleh.
It's not like Cortez has a great deal of stuff in his favor. :P
It is still rather lazy to make him and the Spanish 2-dimensional. It is not like they built the first ever empire built on blood and steel. Heck Spain itself had been conquered by a few of them.
I rarely see books about Julius Caesar so intellectually lazy.
I have a question for Spellus. Well anyone can answer, but I thought he might know. What exactly is a "clay nail". I've read about things written on clay nails but I'm not sure exactly what they are.
The clay nails were apparently embedded into walls of structures and were inscribed to attest to their foundation and to what deity the structure belonged to. It was a Sumerian practice and also used by the Egyptians in some form. :elvis:
http://www.etc.cmu.edu/projects/i4i/photos/nail.html
Quote from: Queequeg on July 13, 2011, 09:10:30 AM
QuoteI'm reading a book on Elam
Name? Any good?
It is actually a textbook: the archeology of elam. :blush:
That is the only book I could find on the topic. It is good for what it is.
Raz, I haven't made it that far into the book, which is arranged chronologically, and I haven't made it into the period where a full writing system was developed. But with the proto writing system in Susa, the view seems to be that Susa not so separate from Sumerian culture. But I think things may be different in later periods, as their culture was differentiated by migrations/conquest of Susa from the Iranian plateau.