QuoteStrauss-Kahn Case Seen as in Jeopardy
By JIM DWYER, WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM and JOHN ELIGON
This article is by Jim Dwyer, William K. Rashbaum and John Eligon.
The sexual assault case against Dominique Strauss-Kahn is on the verge of collapse as investigators have uncovered major holes in the credibility of the housekeeper who charged that he attacked her in his Manhattan hotel suite in May, according to two well-placed law enforcement officials.
Although forensic tests found unambiguous evidence of a sexual encounter between Mr. Strauss-Kahn, a French politician, and the woman, prosecutors now do not believe much of what the accuser has told them about the circumstances or about herself.
Since her initial allegation on May 14, the accuser has repeatedly lied, one of the law enforcement officials said.
Senior prosecutors met with lawyers for Mr. Strauss-Kahn on Thursday and provided details about their findings, and the parties are discussing whether to dismiss the felony charges. Among the discoveries, one of the officials said, are issues involving the asylum application of the 32-year-old housekeeper, who is Guinean, and possible links to people involved in criminal activities, including drug dealing and money laundering.
Prosecutors and defense lawyers will return to State Supreme Court in Manhattan on Friday morning, when Justice Michael J. Obus is expected to consider easing the extraordinary bail conditions that he imposed on Mr. Strauss-Kahn in the days after he was charged.
Indeed, Mr. Strauss-Kahn could be released on his own recognizance, and freed from house arrest, reflecting the likelihood that the serious charges against him will not be sustained. The district attorney's office may try to require Mr. Strauss-Kahn to plead guilty to a misdemeanor, but his lawyers are likely to contest such a move.
The revelations are a stunning change of fortune for Mr. Strauss-Kahn, 62, who was considered a strong contender for the French presidency before being accused of sexually assaulting the woman who went to clean his luxury suite at the Sofitel New York.
Prosecutors from the office of the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., who initially were emphatic about the strength of the case and the account of the victim, plan to tell the judge on Friday that they "have problems with the case" based on what their investigators have discovered, and will disclose more of their findings to the defense. The woman still maintains that she was attacked, the officials said.
"It is a mess, a mess on both sides," one official said.
According to the two officials, the woman had a phone conversation with an incarcerated man within a day of her encounter with Mr. Strauss-Kahn in which she discussed the possible benefits of pursuing the charges against him. The conversation was recorded.
That man, the investigators learned, had been arrested on charges of possessing 400 pounds of marijuana. He is among a number of individuals who made multiple cash deposits, totaling around $100,000, into the woman's bank account over the last two years. The deposits were made in Arizona, Georgia, New York and Pennsylvania.
The investigators also learned that she was paying hundreds of dollars every month in phone charges to five companies. The woman had insisted she had only one phone and said she knew nothing about the deposits except that they were made by a man she described as her fiancé and his friends.
In addition, one of the officials said, she told investigators that her application for asylum included mention of a previous rape, but there was no such account in the application. She also told them that she had been subjected to genital mutilation, but her account to the investigators differed from what was contained in the asylum application.
A lawyer for the woman, Kenneth Thompson, could not be immediately reached for comment on Thursday evening.
In recent weeks, Mr. Strauss-Kahn's lawyers, Benjamin Brafman and William W. Taylor III, have made it clear that they would make the credibility of the woman a focus of their case. In a May 25 letter, they said they had uncovered information that would "gravely undermine the credibility" of the accuser.
Still, it was the prosecutor's investigators who found the information about the woman.
The case involving Mr. Strauss-Kahn has made international headlines and renewed attention on accusations that he had behaved inappropriately toward women in the past, while, more broadly, prompting soul-searching among the French about the treatment of women.
The revelations about the investigators' findings are likely to buttress the view of Mr. Strauss-Kahn's supporters, who complained that the American authorities had rushed to judgment in the case.
Some of Mr. Strauss-Kahn's allies even contended that he had been set up by his political rivals, an assertion that law enforcement authorities said there was no evidence to support.
Mr. Strauss-Kahn resigned from his post as managing director of the International Monetary Fund in the wake of the housekeeper's accusations and was required to post $1 million bail and a $5 million bond.
He also agreed to remain under 24-hour home confinement while wearing an ankle monitor and providing a security team and an armed guard at the entrance and exit of the building where he was living. The conditions are costing Mr. Strauss-Kahn $250,000 a month.
Prosecutors had sought the restrictive conditions in part by arguing that the case against Mr. Strauss-Kahn was a strong one, citing a number of factors, including the credibility of his accuser, with one prosecutor saying her story was "compelling and unwavering."
In the weeks after making her accusations, the woman, who arrived in the United States from Guinea in 2002, was described by relatives and friends as an unassuming and hard-working immigrant with a teenage daughter. She had no criminal record, and had been a housekeeper at the Sofitel for a few years, they said.
Mr. Strauss-Kahn was such a pariah in the initial days after the arrest that neighbors of an Upper East Side apartment building objected when he and his wife tried to rent a unit there. He eventually rented a three-story town house on Franklin Street in TriBeCa.
Under the relaxed conditions of bail to be requested on Friday, the district attorney's office would retain Mr. Strauss-Kahn's passport but he would be permitted to travel within the United States.
The woman told the authorities that she had gone to Mr. Strauss-Kahn's suite to clean it and that he emerged naked from the bathroom and attacked her. The formal charges accused him of ripping her pantyhose, trying to rape her and forcing her to perform oral sex; his lawyers say there is no evidence of force and have suggested that any sex was consensual.
After the indictment was filed, Mr. Vance spoke briefly on the courthouse steps addressing hundreds of local and foreign reporters who had been camped out in front of the imposing stone edifice. He characterized the charges as "extremely serious" and said the "evidence supports the commission of nonconsensual forced sexual acts."
Mr. Strauss-Kahn's lawyers, Mr. Brafman and Mr. Taylor, declined to comment on Thursday evening.
The case was not scheduled to return to court until July 18.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/01/nyregion/strauss-kahn-case-seen-as-in-jeopardy.html?_r=1&hp
Ok, after everything, especially the "perp walk", if the case is dropped, heads should roll in a lot of high places.
I wonder if this means DSK could reenter the French presidential race. I may be wrong about the French, but I would expect this actually may make him more popular at home.
Oh, btw, if these charges are dropped, I can be totally racist, sexist and classist about it, right? Because I plan to. :cool:
That would imply you haven't been in the past, wouldn't it?
Quote from: Martinus on July 01, 2011, 02:13:22 AM
but I would expect this actually may make him more popular at home.
Beating a rape rap in the US? You betcha!
He can run on a ticket with Roman Polanski. :)
Or, one could suggest the DA and NYPD to have acted a tad more diplomatically in their handling, thus avoiding the apperent backlash hitting them now.
I presume that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, even if he is a filthy European and French to bbot :D
V
If he beats the rap will the New York DA scream "KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN"? :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on July 01, 2011, 05:40:19 AM
If he beats the rap will the New York DA scream "KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN"? :hmm:
That would be worth putting up with Euros crowing.
Here we have a saying regarding bad winners as well as bad losers.. the NYPD and alot of US commentary were bad winners win they caught him.. I bet they are bad losers as well now :D
V
Quoteinvestigators have uncovered major holes in the housekeeper
:w00t:
I believe Strauss-Kahn discovered those same holes. :frog:
Quote from: Martinus on July 01, 2011, 02:13:22 AM
I wonder if this means DSK could reenter the French presidential race. I may be wrong about the French, but I would expect this actually may make him more popular at home.
After re-checking, it's almost too late. He has to apply between June 28 and July 13.
I hope he manages to get on the ballot and is elected. It would be an awesome FU to Americans and their retarded system of "justice".
I also wonder if this would hurt Sarkozy? Considering the timing of elections it may seem like too much of coincidence. Are there any conspiracy theories in France that Sarko may have orchestrated this?
Mart, have you considered that this might simply be an OJ Simpson redux? Overenthusiastic prosecution tries to ram a conviction through only to find unrecoverable major holes in their case too late?
Sure, we've got innocent until proven guilty, but that applies to false charges, too- nothing in the article says that she wasn't raped, just that she's turned out to not be a credible witness.
It's telling that they're expecting an attempt to plea bargain a misdemeanor- they still believe something happened, just that they can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
It's unfortunate if he would be released. I think this case was a good example of how US justice applies to everyone, and it would be a shame to waste that example.
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 07:46:52 AM
It's unfortunate if he would be released. I think this case was a good example of how US justice applies to everyone, and it would be a shame to waste that example.
Plus we can't release him now. He probably takes a dim view of the American way at this point, and if becomes president France may not support us on our next stupid military adventure, or close the McDonalds on the Champs Elysees.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 01, 2011, 08:06:00 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 07:46:52 AM
It's unfortunate if he would be released. I think this case was a good example of how US justice applies to everyone, and it would be a shame to waste that example.
Plus we can't release him now. He probably takes a dim view of the American way at this point, and if becomes president France may not support us on our next stupid military adventure, or close the McDonalds on the Champs Elysees.
How would we tell the difference?
I wonder if the maid was convinced to become unreliable after getting a couple of sacks with dollar signs on them, with money inside.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2011, 09:07:54 AM
How would we tell the difference?
When the golden arches no longer tower over the champs elysses, we will know.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 01, 2011, 09:18:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2011, 09:07:54 AM
How would we tell the difference?
When the golden arches no longer tower over the champs elysses, we will know.
They don't really support us on military adventures. The whole Libyan thing was their idea.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2011, 09:20:06 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 01, 2011, 09:18:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2011, 09:07:54 AM
How would we tell the difference?
When the golden arches no longer tower over the champs elysses, we will know.
They don't really support us on military adventures. The whole Libyan thing was their idea.
:frusty: I know this Raz. My post wasn't serious.
Quote from: Martinus on July 01, 2011, 02:25:27 AM
Oh, btw, if these charges are dropped, I can be totally racist, sexist and classist about it, right? Because I plan to. :cool:
You've never displayed class before, so perhaps this is a new thing for you.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 01, 2011, 09:22:45 AM
:frusty: I know this Raz. My post wasn't serious.
You should know, Raz is extremely literal minded. This has caused problems before.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2011, 09:29:54 AM
You should know, Raz is extremely literal minded. This has caused problems before.
:thumbsup: No problems.
Quote from: Martinus on July 01, 2011, 02:13:22 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/01/nyregion/strauss-kahn-case-seen-as-in-jeopardy.html?_r=1&hp
Ok, after everything, especially the "perp walk", if the case is dropped, heads should roll in a lot of high places.
I wonder if this means DSK could reenter the French presidential race. I may be wrong about the French, but I would expect this actually may make him more popular at home.
Heads have already rolled. The head of NYPD's sex crimes unit has already resigned for reasons unknown.
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 09:11:32 AM
I wonder if the maid was convinced to become unreliable after getting a couple of sacks with dollar signs on them, with money inside.
She is deemed unreliable because they have discovered that she consorts with a drug dealer currently in prion for possession of hundreds of pounds of marijuana, owns several cell phones, and has significant amounts of money transiting from that guy in her bank account, despite her working as a mere hotel maid. Plus, she has lied to immigration in her asylum papers.
She has links with the criminal underworld that she hadn't revealed to the police in the past, and possibilities of her conspiring to blackmail DSK for money. It's understandable they don't want to present a victim who is capable of committing perjury. Doesn't mean she hasn't been raped. After all, whores, molls and drug addicts do get raped. However, it seriously undermines her credibility in what amounts to a "he said, she said" cause.
My prediction : plea bargain.
Moral: Don't get raped by someone with powerful connections.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 01, 2011, 11:39:45 AM
Moral: Don't get raped by someone with powerful connections.
or did get involved with drug trafficers, launder money, and otherwise help them out or you wont be believed.
Quote from: HVC on July 01, 2011, 12:00:12 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 01, 2011, 11:39:45 AM
Moral: Don't get raped by someone with powerful connections.
or did get involved with drug trafficers, launder money, and otherwise help them out or you wont be believed.
And if you must still get raped, for the love of everything that's holy, don't discuss over the phone how much money you can squeeze out of this. :lol:
Quote from: Slargos on July 01, 2011, 12:14:06 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 01, 2011, 12:00:12 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 01, 2011, 11:39:45 AM
Moral: Don't get raped by someone with powerful connections.
or did get involved with drug trafficers, launder money, and otherwise help them out or you wont be believed.
And if you must still get raped, for the love of everything that's holy, don't discuss over the phone how much money you can squeeze out of this. :lol:
well yes, but that's a given whether or not you're into illegal activities :P
I can't help but think that Strauss-Kahn is getting off because he's rich and powerful. Poor people in US don't get off on a rape charge just because their victim lied about the whole thing.
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 12:19:48 PM
I can't help but think that Strauss-Kahn is getting off because he's rich and powerful. Poor people in US don't get off on a rape charge just because their victim lied about the whole thing.
What about those Duke Lacrosse players.. Oh wait.
Kobe Bryant? Nevermind.
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 09:11:32 AM
I wonder if the maid was convinced to become unreliable after getting a couple of sacks with dollar signs on them, with money inside.
That was my first thought.
Not that I think.
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 12:19:48 PM
I can't help but think that Strauss-Kahn is getting off because he's rich and powerful. Poor people in US don't get off on a rape charge just because their victim lied about the whole thing.
His status certainly helped in having his bail conditions softened in a make-up gesture, at least.
That said, the charges still stand. So either the prosecution has an ace up their sleeves, or the attorney-general wants to go all-in on this case.
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 12:19:48 PM
I can't help but think that Strauss-Kahn is getting off because he's rich and powerful. Poor people in US don't get off on a rape charge just because their victim lied about the whole thing.
On the other hand, why shouldn't he get of based on her lying JUST because he is rich and powerful?
he is French, if there had been ANY way possible to convict him, despite being rich and powerful, I'm sure they would have found it :D
The whole stage show around his arrest, court appearance, and subsequent cries of her lilly white life, made my stomach churn, and surely had he been a mere wall street banker none ofthis would have been blown this far out of proportions.
For that alone I can't help to feel a little glleful that the case is unraveling.
Still if he has raped her, then medical examinations should show it, she was examined mere hours after the deed, and physical evidence on her dress shouldat least prove intercourse. And as such he should be convicted and condemned. but not on a public gaol, and certainly not until the judge has spoken.
V
V
Quote from: Drakken on July 01, 2011, 12:57:26 PM
That said, the charges still stand. So either the prosecution has an ace up their sleeves, or the attorney-general wants to go all-in on this case.
Prosecution can't dismis now. if they do they are saying the wrongfully ruined a mans life. if they prosecute and win they come out as "hero's" for the everyday men and women how go after the rich as the y would the poor. if they lose then people who think he's innocent will be comforted the justice won while those who think he's guilty will blame his money but fall back on "at least justice tried". there is no going back.
Quote from: HVC on July 01, 2011, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: Drakken on July 01, 2011, 12:57:26 PM
That said, the charges still stand. So either the prosecution has an ace up their sleeves, or the attorney-general wants to go all-in on this case.
Prosecution can't dismis now. if they do they are saying the wrongfully ruined a mans life. if they prosecute and win they come out as "hero's" for the everyday men and women how go after the rich as the y would the poor. if they lose then people who think he's innocent will be comforted the justice won while those who think he's guilty will blame his money but fall back on "at least justice tried". there is no going back.
That tactic certainly didn't work for Mike Nifong.
I don't think prosecution did anything wrong. Given the information they had at the time, they did the right thing. They were also the ones who uncovered discrediting evidence against the alleged victim, so they can't be blamed for trying to railroad DSK at all costs. The perp walk thing was silly and distasteful, but it's silly and distasteful in every circumstance, not just in cases of wrongful arrest, and prosecutors aren't even in charge of that.
ya, but nifong went a hell of a lot further then just prosecuting. the only one who wins in this scenario is the american rish business man who decides to go to france and ends up raping someone.
oh, and i'm not saying the did anything wrong either, i'm just saying they're stuck. dismiss and piss off everyone, go ahead and only piss off half the people (and by losing pissing off even less people, i think)
Quote from: Valdemar on July 01, 2011, 01:29:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 12:19:48 PM
I can't help but think that Strauss-Kahn is getting off because he's rich and powerful. Poor people in US don't get off on a rape charge just because their victim lied about the whole thing.
On the other hand, why shouldn't he get of based on her lying JUST because he is rich and powerful?
he is French, if there had been ANY way possible to convict him, despite being rich and powerful, I'm sure they would have found it :D
The whole stage show around his arrest, court appearance, and subsequent cries of her lilly white life, made my stomach churn, and surely had he been a mere wall street banker none ofthis would have been blown this far out of proportions.
For that alone I can't help to feel a little glleful that the case is unraveling.
Still if he has raped her, then medical examinations should show it, she was examined mere hours after the deed, and physical evidence on her dress shouldat least prove intercourse. And as such he should be convicted and condemned. but not on a public gaol, and certainly not until the judge has spoken.
V
V
Oh so now it is the media's fault?
Quote from: garbon on July 01, 2011, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: Valdemar on July 01, 2011, 01:29:58 PM
On the other hand, why shouldn't he get of based on her lying JUST because he is rich and powerful?
he is French, if there had been ANY way possible to convict him, despite being rich and powerful, I'm sure they would have found it :D
The whole stage show around his arrest, court appearance, and subsequent cries of her lilly white life, made my stomach churn, and surely had he been a mere wall street banker none ofthis would have been blown this far out of proportions.
For that alone I can't help to feel a little glleful that the case is unraveling.
Still if he has raped her, then medical examinations should show it, she was examined mere hours after the deed, and physical evidence on her dress shouldat least prove intercourse. And as such he should be convicted and condemned. but not on a public gaol, and certainly not until the judge has spoken.
V
V
Oh so now it is the media's fault?
Valdemar dost protest too much, methinks.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 01, 2011, 07:44:23 AM
Mart, have you considered that this might simply be an OJ Simpson redux? Overenthusiastic prosecution tries to ram a conviction through only to find unrecoverable major holes in their case too late?
Sure, we've got innocent until proven guilty, but that applies to false charges, too- nothing in the article says that she wasn't raped, just that she's turned out to not be a credible witness.
It's telling that they're expecting an attempt to plea bargain a misdemeanor- they still believe something happened, just that they can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
I thought it said he is going to resist the misdemeanor charge - I read it as the prosecutors' desperate attempt to save face.
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 09:11:32 AM
I wonder if the maid was convinced to become unreliable after getting a couple of sacks with dollar signs on them, with money inside.
I don't think they use these sacks outside of movies and such. :huh:
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 12:19:48 PM
I can't help but think that Strauss-Kahn is getting off because he's rich and powerful. Poor people in US don't get off on a rape charge just because their victim lied about the whole thing.
Rich people do not commit rape or other crimes, because they are rich and thus don't have to do this. It's basic logic.
On the other hand, the poor are morally inferior, and as such, all likely criminals and unreliable.
Quote from: Siege on July 01, 2011, 12:50:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 09:11:32 AM
I wonder if the maid was convinced to become unreliable after getting a couple of sacks with dollar signs on them, with money inside.
That was my first thought.
Not that I think.
One Jew who is actually a victim of a witch hunt, and you are against him. Shame.
Quote from: DGuller on July 01, 2011, 01:39:39 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 01, 2011, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: Drakken on July 01, 2011, 12:57:26 PM
That said, the charges still stand. So either the prosecution has an ace up their sleeves, or the attorney-general wants to go all-in on this case.
Prosecution can't dismis now. if they do they are saying the wrongfully ruined a mans life. if they prosecute and win they come out as "hero's" for the everyday men and women how go after the rich as the y would the poor. if they lose then people who think he's innocent will be comforted the justice won while those who think he's guilty will blame his money but fall back on "at least justice tried". there is no going back.
That tactic certainly didn't work for Mike Nifong.
I don't think prosecution did anything wrong. Given the information they had at the time, they did the right thing. They were also the ones who uncovered discrediting evidence against the alleged victim, so they can't be blamed for trying to railroad DSK at all costs. The perp walk thing was silly and distasteful, but it's silly and distasteful in every circumstance, not just in cases of wrongful arrest, and prosecutors aren't even in charge of that.
They did not do anything wrong? You must be kidding me. They took a fairly incredible claim and did the whole dog and pony show of arresting the chairman of the IMF, disrupting the huge organisation (and possibly causing millions of dollars of damage).
Speaking seriously, I fully think they should have investigated and, if the investigation found evidence, charged him. But the guy is not some common criminal, or even Polanski. He's the head of a major international institution and a major French politician who would not suddenly disappear in the mountains - arresting him was totally unwarranted.
If anything, this proves a complete failure of the US prosecution system, and a good reason why Western democracies should not comply with its wishes (e.g. extradition requests) in future. It's a farce.
Quote from: Martinus on July 01, 2011, 07:33:01 AM
I hope he manages to get on the ballot and is elected. It would be an awesome FU to Americans and their retarded system of "justice".
How DARE they arrest a wealthy guy on the charges made by a bum? The fucking degenerate fascist retards
Quote from: Tamas on July 02, 2011, 05:15:07 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 01, 2011, 07:33:01 AM
I hope he manages to get on the ballot and is elected. It would be an awesome FU to Americans and their retarded system of "justice".
How DARE they arrest a wealthy guy on the charges made by a bum? The fucking degenerate fascist retards
When did you become a communist?
Quote from: Tamas on July 02, 2011, 05:15:07 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 01, 2011, 07:33:01 AM
I hope he manages to get on the ballot and is elected. It would be an awesome FU to Americans and their retarded system of "justice".
How DARE they arrest a wealthy guy on the charges made by a bum? The fucking degenerate fascist retards
You're talking to Marti, here. You cannot go full-retard and expect to distinguish your arguments from his.
Quote from: grumbler on July 02, 2011, 08:44:13 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 02, 2011, 05:15:07 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 01, 2011, 07:33:01 AM
I hope he manages to get on the ballot and is elected. It would be an awesome FU to Americans and their retarded system of "justice".
How DARE they arrest a wealthy guy on the charges made by a bum? The fucking degenerate fascist retards
You're talking to Marti, here. You cannot go full-retard and expect to distinguish your arguments from his.
What's up, grumbler? You've been slacking off lately, and you're sounding more and more confused in your attempts at "wit".
Trouble in the household? Stressed at work?
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 05:07:47 AM
They did not do anything wrong? You must be kidding me. They took a fairly incredible claim and did the whole dog and pony show of arresting the chairman of the IMF, disrupting the huge organisation (and possibly causing millions of dollars of damage).
Speaking seriously, I fully think they should have investigated and, if the investigation found evidence, charged him. But the guy is not some common criminal, or even Polanski. He's the head of a major international institution and a major French politician who would not suddenly disappear in the mountains - arresting him was totally unwarranted.
If anything, this proves a complete failure of the US prosecution system, and a good reason why Western democracies should not comply with its wishes (e.g. extradition requests) in future. It's a farce.
In this country the job of police is to take accusations of crime seriously. No fucking idea what they do in Poland. And yes, some times wealthy and powerful people murder and rape. I'm fairly sure arresting him was warranted as they had an actual warrant to do so. I don't know if you missed the irony of criticizing the US for refusing bail while in the same post stating that Europe shouldn't extradite wanted criminals to the US. From anyone else I would take this as a joke of some kind. You, I believe are actually serious when making such stupid statements.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 05:01:54 AM
Rich people do not commit rape or other crimes, because they are rich and thus don't have to do this. It's basic logic.
On the other hand, the poor are morally inferior, and as such, all likely criminals and unreliable.
I'm not sure why anyone is responding as it is clear that you are trolling. :hug:
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2011, 09:20:05 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 05:01:54 AM
Rich people do not commit rape or other crimes, because they are rich and thus don't have to do this. It's basic logic.
On the other hand, the poor are morally inferior, and as such, all likely criminals and unreliable.
I'm not sure why anyone is responding as it is clear that you are trolling. :hug:
I'm not convinced Marty can troll as it requires to separate thoughts to be in his head at the same time.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 05:07:47 AM
They did not do anything wrong? You must be kidding me. They took a fairly incredible claim and did the whole dog and pony show of arresting the chairman of the IMF, disrupting the huge organisation (and possibly causing millions of dollars of damage).
Speaking seriously, I fully think they should have investigated and, if the investigation found evidence, charged him. But the guy is not some common criminal, or even Polanski. He's the head of a major international institution and a major French politician who would not suddenly disappear in the mountains - arresting him was totally unwarranted.
If anything, this proves a complete failure of the US prosecution system, and a good reason why Western democracies should not comply with its wishes (e.g. extradition requests) in future. It's a farce.
He wouldn't disappear into the mountains, but the problem is that he could disappear to France. That place to which he was headed when arrested. If a country doesn't have an extradition policy that makes it easy for us to bring guys back, there isn't much choice except to lock guys up at the time of the accusation.
So are you guys happy to live in a society where a mere accusation from a woman is enough to get a man arrested?
There is a whole world of difference between "treating accusations seriously" and arresting someone on a purely she-said-he-said basis.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 09:48:49 AM
So are you guys happy to live in a society where a mere accusation from a woman is enough to get a man arrested?
There is a whole world of difference between "treating accusations seriously" and arresting someone on a purely she-said-he-said basis.
A "mere accusation from a woman" doesn't get a warrant. Look up "reasonable suspicion."
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 09:48:49 AM
So are you guys happy to live in a society where a mere accusation from a woman is enough to get a man arrested?
Non-sequitur, since none of those guys live in such a society. This is just re-wording the old phony question "are you guys happy to live in a society where all gays are pedophiles?"
QuoteThere is a whole world of difference between "treating accusations seriously" and arresting someone on a purely she-said-he-said basis.
And there is a whole world of difference between making logical arguments based on facts, and hysterical arguments based on ignorance and spite.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 02, 2011, 09:54:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 09:48:49 AM
So are you guys happy to live in a society where a mere accusation from a woman is enough to get a man arrested?
There is a whole world of difference between "treating accusations seriously" and arresting someone on a purely she-said-he-said basis.
A "mere accusation from a woman" doesn't get a warrant. Look up "reasonable suspicion."
These accusations are baseless. What's more, they were incredible to begin with. Some fucking immigrant whore with clear criminal ties wants to make a quick buck on the blackmail, and a career of a man who is worth perhaps one thousand pieces of shit like her is destroyed. Fucking American cretins.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 09:57:09 AM
These accusations are baseless. What's more, they were incredible to begin with. Some fucking immigrant whore with clear criminal ties wants to make a quick buck on the blackmail, and a career of a man who is worth perhaps one thousand pieces of shit like her is destroyed. Fucking American cretins.
Who pressured him to resign?
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 05:07:47 AM
They did not do anything wrong? You must be kidding me. They took a fairly incredible claim and did the whole dog and pony show of arresting the chairman of the IMF, disrupting the huge organisation (and possibly causing millions of dollars of damage).
Speaking seriously, I fully think they should have investigated and, if the investigation found evidence, charged him. But the guy is not some common criminal, or even Polanski. He's the head of a major international institution and a major French politician who would not suddenly disappear in the mountains - arresting him was totally unwarranted.
If anything, this proves a complete failure of the US prosecution system, and a good reason why Western democracies should not comply with its wishes (e.g. extradition requests) in future. It's a farce.
Who he was should have zero bearing on whether he was arrested.
I know it's gleeful for you lower class* types to see one of your betters brought down but thankfully most of Europe does not work like this.
*Does not technically apply to garbon but he is black and thus prejudiced against the succesful people too.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 09:48:49 AM
So are you guys happy to live in a society where a mere accusation from a woman is enough to get a man arrested?
There is a whole world of difference between "treating accusations seriously" and arresting someone on a purely she-said-he-said basis.
They had DNA evidence and a story they thought was plausible. In this circumstance, yes I am fine with arresting a person. Most of us wouldn't have to sit it out in jail, however, because we don't hold passports from countries that refuse extradition requests.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:04:21 AM
I know it's gleeful for you lower class types to see one of your betters brought down but thankfully most of Europe does not work like this.
:nod: We know. That is why a lot of our ancestors left Europe. Here we don't recognize "betters" and have the principal "all men are created equal."
Yeah well and good riddance. Btw, you did well with this principle (not "principal" btw) while owning slaves for nearly a century.
And, in particular, are equal before the law.
Yeah. Ted Kennedy was so equal.
Let's play languish's favourite game. Guess that fallacy!
Let's start with everyone's favourite, the strawman. Nope, doesn't fit.
Ad Hominem? definitely not.
Red Herring? nope
Tu Quoque? ahh... :hmm:
What is the wealth threshold for not being arrested for rape in Poland?
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:04:21 AM
I know it's gleeful for you lower class*
:D
Everything I know indicates that at least two people in this thread likely make a lot more money than you, at least on absolute terms. I'm pretty sure I would have a pretty high living standard in Poland, as my amazing fire-making abilities would keep me in pierogis.
Not that that matters. I just found this particularly silly, considering.
Actually only alfred russell makes more money. We had a thread on this in TBA recently.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:04:21 AM
I know it's gleeful for you lower class* types to see one of your betters brought down but thankfully most of Europe does not work like this.
*Does not technically apply to garbon but he is black and thus prejudiced against the succesful people too.
Just quoting this so Marti cannot delete it and claim he never said this.
This is fucking classic! :lmfao:
Marti, you are one of the least successful people I know of.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 09:48:49 AM
So are you guys happy to live in a society where a mere accusation from a woman is enough to get a man arrested?
If it were "a mere accusation from a fag", this would be a totally different thread. :lol: You're beyond transparent, Marty.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:08:51 AM
Btw, you did well with this principle (not "principal" btw) while owning slaves for nearly a century.
Poles owned slaves for far longer than that, and slavery wasn't abolished there until 1864, almost two years after the Emancipation Proclamation.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 09:57:09 AM
These accusations are baseless. What's more, they were incredible to begin with. Some fucking immigrant whore with clear criminal ties wants to make a quick buck on the blackmail, and a career of a man who is worth perhaps one thousand pieces of shit like her is destroyed. Fucking American cretins.
Nobody is claiming Berlusconi was raped. :unsure:
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:04:21 AM
I know it's gleeful for you lower class* types to see one of your betters brought down but thankfully most of Europe does not work like this.
*Does not technically apply to garbon but he is black and thus prejudiced against the succesful people too.
I bet you make less money then most of our American posters. For one thing, most of them aren't are paid in bales of hay or turnips.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:48:07 AM
Actually only alfred russell makes more money. We had a thread on this in TBA recently.
Most people don't post in the backroom.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:48:07 AM
Actually only alfred russell makes more money. We had a thread on this in TBA recently.
You are pretty close to your prime earning years. A lot of us aren't. This is bullshit.
Quote from: Queequeg on July 02, 2011, 11:39:11 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:48:07 AM
Actually only alfred russell makes more money. We had a thread on this in TBA recently.
You are pretty close to your prime earning years. A lot of us aren't. This is bullshit.
Not really. I'm actually looking to have my income doubled in the next 2-4 years. But I will not be redoing the pissing contest here - out of curiosity, though, how much do you think I earn, a general range wise.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:48:07 AM
Actually only alfred russell makes more money. We had a thread on this in TBA recently.
There was probably a lot of guessing in that thread. I've never posted how much I make, for one.
I was going to post how much I make in that thread, but after seeing other people's responses, I changed my mind. I don't like embarrassing other people. :unsure:
Quote from: alfred russel on July 02, 2011, 12:22:16 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:48:07 AM
Actually only alfred russell makes more money. We had a thread on this in TBA recently.
There was probably a lot of guessing in that thread. I've never posted how much I make, for one.
Yeah but I assume you make more than me. I know noone else who posted in this thread here makes more than me. :)
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 12:27:22 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 02, 2011, 12:22:16 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:48:07 AM
Actually only alfred russell makes more money. We had a thread on this in TBA recently.
There was probably a lot of guessing in that thread. I've never posted how much I make, for one.
Yeah but I assume you make more than me. I know noone else who posted in this thread here makes more than me. :)
There are few of us that actually believe you are a lawyer.
It is kind of sad that Marty fall back on income as the measure of a man.
It's the case for all post-communist nations. They wallowed in poverty for so long that they now believe only the amount of money defines a man's worth.
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 09:57:09 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 02, 2011, 09:54:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 09:48:49 AM
So are you guys happy to live in a society where a mere accusation from a woman is enough to get a man arrested?
There is a whole world of difference between "treating accusations seriously" and arresting someone on a purely she-said-he-said basis.
A "mere accusation from a woman" doesn't get a warrant. Look up "reasonable suspicion."
These accusations are baseless. What's more, they were incredible to begin with. Some fucking immigrant whore with clear criminal ties wants to make a quick buck on the blackmail, and a career of a man who is worth perhaps one thousand pieces of shit like her is destroyed. Fucking American cretins.
I didn't realize he was gay.
They should've let the police know this, and it would've been cleared up right away.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 02, 2011, 02:30:06 PM
It is kind of sad that Marty fall back on income as the measure of a man.
Agreed. We all know it is determined by how many tank divisions he commands.
Quote from: Solmyr on July 02, 2011, 02:32:08 PM
It's the case for all post-communist nations. They wallowed in poverty for so long that they now believe only the amount of money defines a man's worth.
I was only responding to Spellus's claim how several people in this thread earn more money than me. I did not start this.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 02, 2011, 02:30:06 PM
It is kind of sad that Marty fall back on income as the measure of a man.
Oh that's not the only thing. There are also things like "not living with your parents" or "having a job" etc.
Quote from: grumbler on July 02, 2011, 11:05:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 10:08:51 AM
Btw, you did well with this principle (not "principal" btw) while owning slaves for nearly a century.
Poles owned slaves for far longer than that, and slavery wasn't abolished there until 1864, almost two years after the Emancipation Proclamation.
:ph34r:
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on July 02, 2011, 02:32:08 PM
It's the case for all post-communist nations. They wallowed in poverty for so long that they now believe only the amount of money defines a man's worth.
I was only responding to Spellus's claim how several people in this thread earn more money than me. I did not start this.
Really? What exactly would you call it when you started calling people lower class? :huh:
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2011, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on July 02, 2011, 02:32:08 PM
It's the case for all post-communist nations. They wallowed in poverty for so long that they now believe only the amount of money defines a man's worth.
I was only responding to Spellus's claim how several people in this thread earn more money than me. I did not start this.
Really? What exactly would you call it when you started calling people lower class? :huh:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftwhitedesign.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F04%2Fspade.jpg&hash=a7040c2178a76fd174844b66c47b0a8c5da69651)
:hmm:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdir.coolclips.com%2FIndustry%2FTrades%2FTools_Q_to_Z%2FShovels%2Fcalling_a_spade_a_spade_CoolClips_cart0926.jpg&hash=c724c67c7b29d9826606e8553453b74faa566a87)
wow i don't read this thread for 12 hours..:lmfao:
Quote from: katmai on July 02, 2011, 05:14:51 PM
wow i don't read this thread for 12 hours..:lmfao:
You are so poor, brah.
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2011, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on July 02, 2011, 02:32:08 PM
It's the case for all post-communist nations. They wallowed in poverty for so long that they now believe only the amount of money defines a man's worth.
I was only responding to Spellus's claim how several people in this thread earn more money than me. I did not start this.
Really? What exactly would you call it when you started calling people lower class? :huh:
Class is not (only) about money. :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 05:33:27 PM
Class is not (only) about money. :huh:
Yes, but you come up deficient in this department.
Quote from: Slargos on July 02, 2011, 02:42:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 02, 2011, 02:30:06 PM
It is kind of sad that Marty fall back on income as the measure of a man.
Agreed. We all know it is determined by how many tank divisions he commands.
I figured he'd measure it by how many boy toes he can jam into his mouth without passing out.
Are you suggesting Marty has a big mouth?
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 05:33:27 PM
Class is not (only) about money. :huh:
Then what is your claim to being upper middle class? :hmm:
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 05:33:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2011, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2011, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on July 02, 2011, 02:32:08 PM
It's the case for all post-communist nations. They wallowed in poverty for so long that they now believe only the amount of money defines a man's worth.
I was only responding to Spellus's claim how several people in this thread earn more money than me. I did not start this.
Really? What exactly would you call it when you started calling people lower class? :huh:
Class is not (only) about money. :huh:
I assumed that was what you are talking about. I have no idea how you are upper class by any metric other than raw income.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.sharenator.com%2F03_Haters_Gonna_Hate-s467x600-62659.jpg&hash=cfc8ea486b94dca67b3301aa9fe2bf62dacf9956)
Quote from: Queequeg on July 03, 2011, 02:05:55 AM
I assumed that was what you are talking about. I have no idea how you are upper class by any metric other than raw income.
His sense of entitlement, his looking down on anyone he views as "inferior", his sense of being cultured and worldly, his disdain for religion, his general snobbery, etc. He's playing at being an 18th or 19th aristocrat. Let's just hope he doesn't think he has a Liberum Veto in regards to anything.
I think it's safe to say that there's not a lot of class on languish.
Quote from: Jacob on July 03, 2011, 04:48:48 PM
I think it's safe to say that there's not a lot of class on languish.
I used to post on Languish while in class.
I'll take "The Rapists" for $500 Trebek
Martys outrage would me more impressive if he had the balls to express it back when the case first broke.
I mean, seeing as he is so certain now that it was obviously a terrible case all along.
Not to be terribly contrarian, but hasn't Marty been following this line the whole time?
Sure, he hasn't been as vocal about it, but then, a week ago it would've been as popular as my hatred of the lesser races. :hmm:
Quote from: Berkut on July 03, 2011, 10:08:40 PM
Martys outrage would me more impressive if he had the balls to express it back when the case first broke.
I mean, seeing as he is so certain now that it was obviously a terrible case all along.
As he noted, it has nothing to do with the case. He thinks the America has a "retarded system of 'justice,'" not that this was a terrible case on its own. His outrage cannot be impressive at all, therefor; its just his usual hysterics, but with a different target.
Sacrebleu! :frog:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43812462/ns/slate_com/
QuoteBy William Saletan
Slate.com Slate.com
updated 7/19/2011 5:03:46 PM ET 2011-07-19T21:03:46
The parade of women accusing Dominique Strauss-Kahn of sexual brutality has just taken another twist. A very bizarre twist.
It started in 2007 with allegations by Tristane Banon, a French journalist, that Strauss-Kahn had grappled "violently" with her and tried to undo her jeans and bra during a private interview. A year later, Piroska Nagy, a former economist at the International Monetary Fund, told IMF investigators that Strauss-Kahn had pressured her into a sexual relationship when she worked for him. The investigators confirmed the relationship but said there was "no evidence" that Strauss-Kahn had "threatened [her] in any way to induce her to engage in the affair." Other women accused him of making crude passes, and in May, he was indicted for allegedly assaulting a maid at a New York hotel. That case has crumbled because the accuser, according to prosecutors, lied to them about a previous rape. But the bruises in her vagina and the semen on her shirt, which reportedly matches Strauss-Kahn's DNA, leave him with a lot to explain.
Story: Strauss-Kahn faces new sexual assault claim
Two weeks ago, Banon, Strauss-Kahn's initial accuser, filed a complaint accusing him of attempted rape. And another woman is now claiming to have endured sexual aggression at his hands: Banon's mother, Anne Mansouret.
Until now, Mansouret was thought to be a mere witness to the 2003 Banon incident. According to a report published last night in L'Express, Mansouret has told investigators that Banon phoned her in shock and that she (Mansouret) went to meet Banon outside the apartment where Banon claims to have been assaulted. L'Express specifies the apartment's address: 13 rue Mayet. This account backs up Banon on two elements of her story.
That was expected. This was not: According to L'Express, Mansouret told investigators that she, too, had sex with Strauss-Kahn. The encounter allegedly happened in a Paris office of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development while Strauss-Kahn was a special adviser to the OECD secretary general. If true, this means Strauss-Kahn had sex with Mansouret in 2000 and then, three years later, went after her daughter.
It also means that when Mansouret initially advised Banon not to file a complaint against Strauss-Kahn, she wasn't just a mother counseling a daughter. She was—without her daughter's knowledge, according to L'Express—a former sex partner of the alleged assailant.
But that's history now, because Mansouret isn't just supporting Banon's account of the 2003 incident. She's also reporting that her own encounter with Strauss-Kahn in 2000 included, in the words of L'Express, "consensual but clearly brutal sex." (That's a translation courtesy of our sister publication, Slate.fr.) L'Express reports that Mansouret "describes DSK as a predator who isn't looking to please but to take, and behaves like an obscene boor. Sexual lust makes him want to dominate."
In fact, Mansouret reportedly claims that Strauss-Kahn, through his second wife, Brigitte Guillemette, confirmed both incidents. According to L'Express, Mansouret said she phoned Guillemette soon after the Banon incident, and Guillemette "allegedly told her she knew he had already had inappropriate behavior with students." Mansouret asserts, on this account, that Guillemette asked Strauss-Kahn about the Banon episode and that he told her, essentially, "I don't know what happened to me. I slept with the mother, I lost it when I saw the daughter."
Story: Reports: Strauss-Kahn sex case heads to dismissal
So here's where we stand. Two women have accused Strauss-Kahn of sexual assault. Three (including those two) have accused him of sexual brutality. A fourth has accused him of sexually pressuring her when she worked for him. Others have accused him of crude advances. In the IMF case, he has admitted to a sexual relationship. In the New York case, the evidence reportedly shows semen and bruising in a first-time encounter with a maid that took less than 20 minutes.
But there's a big problem with Mansouret's story: Guillemette denies it. L'Express says that when investigators asked Guillemette about Mansouret's version of events, she told them, "All this is false." And if Guillemette rejects Mansouret's account of their conversations, that could undercut Mansouret's credibility about her own incident as well as Banon's.
Mansouret's sordid tale, as reported by L'Express, deepens the portrait of Strauss-Kahn as a sexual aggressor with a pattern of pressure and violence, including the sequential pursuit of a woman and her daughter. But precisely because this portrait is so grotesque and so reliant on a mother and daughter whose stories are now sexually intertwined — and now challenged by another woman — Mansouret's allegations could make Banon's story harder to believe. That doesn't mean Strauss-Kahn will walk away a free man. It just means that some other woman will have to come forward. And if the portrait of him is accurate, that woman almost certainly exists.
(Thanks to Gregoire Fleurot of Slate.Fr for providing translation.)
This article, DSK's MILF?, first appeared in Slate.com.
QuoteMansouret describes DSK as a predator who isn't looking to please but to take, and behaves like an obscene boor. Sexual lust makes him want to dominate
Dude, that's rape in Sweden.
Quote from: Kleves on July 20, 2011, 12:26:34 AM
QuoteMansouret describes DSK as a predator who isn't looking to please but to take, and behaves like an obscene boor. Sexual lust makes him want to dominate
Dude, that's rape in Sweden.
Good for him Norway is right next door.
The horrors of globalisation - bringing American puritanism to France.
Quote from: Martinus on July 20, 2011, 01:15:27 AM
The horrors of globalisation - bringing American puritanism to France.
Perhaps they can import Russian views on homosexuality as well.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 20, 2011, 01:36:00 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 20, 2011, 01:15:27 AM
The horrors of globalisation - bringing American puritanism to France.
Perhaps they can import Russian views on homosexuality as well.
Only if they also import Russian views on the mentally ill.
If Russians got to rule, you would have it worse than I.
Quote from: Martinus on July 20, 2011, 01:37:46 AM
Only if they also import Russian views on the mentally ill.
If Russians got to rule, you would have it worse than I.
Russians put their mentally ill in positions of power. It's the sane ones that go to the hospitals.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 20, 2011, 01:44:10 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 20, 2011, 01:37:46 AM
Only if they also import Russian views on the mentally ill.
If Russians got to rule, you would have it worse than I.
Russians put their mentally ill in positions of power. It's the sane ones that go to the hospitals.
:lol:
Quote from: Razgovory on July 20, 2011, 01:44:10 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 20, 2011, 01:37:46 AM
Only if they also import Russian views on the mentally ill.
If Russians got to rule, you would have it worse than I.
Russians put their mentally ill in positions of power. It's the sane ones that go to the hospitals.
Smooth :lol:
Quotethe portrait of Strauss-Kahn as a sexual aggressor with a pattern of pressure and violence, including the sequential pursuit of a woman and her daughter.
This guy just gets cooler each day.
So case dropped. Can he sue for monetary damages? Guy lost his job and future earnings and what not
Now he gets to fight off the next round of allegations from the next girl. Nothing to see here.
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2011, 06:04:10 PM
So case dropped. Can he sue for monetary damages? Guy lost his job and future earnings and what not
Maybe he could sue the dirt poor immigrant maid. Mind you, he's not unemployable or anything in the future.
Can he sue the police for informing the media about his perp walk? He fact that he was charged is public knowledge, but he cops telling the media where he'll be goes pretty far.
Quote from: Neil on August 23, 2011, 06:09:25 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2011, 06:04:10 PM
So case dropped. Can he sue for monetary damages? Guy lost his job and future earnings and what not
Maybe he could sue the dirt poor immigrant maid. Mind you, he's not unemployable or anything in the future.
I'm sure he could come up with a few suggestions as to how she could work off the award against her. :hmm:
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2011, 06:04:10 PM
So case dropped. Can he sue for monetary damages? Guy lost his job and future earnings and what not
Extremely unlikely. Police have a duty to investigate and arrest as necessary.
To allow lawsuits would have a "chilling effect" on the ability of police to investigate crimes. In order for a successful lawsuit you would generally have to show actual malice or bad faith - at least in Canadian law.
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2011, 06:04:10 PM
So case dropped. Can he sue for monetary damages? Guy lost his job and future earnings and what not
Extremely unlikely. Police have a duty to investigate and arrest as necessary.
To allow lawsuits would have a "chilling effect" on the ability of police to investigate crimes. In order for a successful lawsuit you would generally have to show actual malice or bad faith - at least in Canadian law.
I don't see how they even acted wrong. They had a criminal complaint of a serious kind with a suspect who was about the to flee the country. They should take such cases seriously. It's not like they should have told her to go piss up a rope.
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2011, 06:04:10 PM
So case dropped. Can he sue for monetary damages? Guy lost his job and future earnings and what not
Extremely unlikely. Police have a duty to investigate and arrest as necessary.
To allow lawsuits would have a "chilling effect" on the ability of police to investigate crimes. In order for a successful lawsuit you would generally have to show actual malice or bad faith - at least in Canadian law.
i don't mean sue for charging, but more along my clarification of suing for tipping off the press the the perp walk. that wasn't necessary to the pusuit of justice.
Quote from: HVC on August 24, 2011, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2011, 06:04:10 PM
So case dropped. Can he sue for monetary damages? Guy lost his job and future earnings and what not
Extremely unlikely. Police have a duty to investigate and arrest as necessary.
To allow lawsuits would have a "chilling effect" on the ability of police to investigate crimes. In order for a successful lawsuit you would generally have to show actual malice or bad faith - at least in Canadian law.
i don't mean sue for charging, but more along my clarification of suing for tipping off the press the the perp walk. that wasn't necessary to the pusuit of justice.
Given that the NYPD has a long, storied history of doing so, I don't think that's a winner. He should wipe the maid out just to send a message, but going after the state of New York will cost him legal fees and win him nothing.
Quote from: HVC on August 24, 2011, 07:10:40 PM
i don't mean sue for charging, but more along my clarification of suing for tipping off the press the the perp walk. that wasn't necessary to the pusuit of justice.
This issue has often been litigated. The police can conduct a perp walk if it is an actual arrest in real time, and there is an actual purpose of transporting the subject. they can also tip off the press is advance. They can't "stage" an event once the suspect is in custody.
He's now counter-suing.
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-source-strauss-kahn-ny-hotel-maid-settle-002203518.html
QuoteStrauss-Kahn, NY hotel maid to settle
Word of a settlement agreement between former International Monetary Fund chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn and a hotel maid who accused him of trying to rape her could bring an end to a saga that has tarnished Strauss-Kahn's reputation, ended his hopes for the French presidency and renewed a debate about the credibility of sexual assault accusers.
But it might not mean the end of legal troubles for Strauss-Kahn. He is awaiting a ruling on whether he is linked to "pimping" in connection with a French prostitution ring.
A person familiar with the New York case said Thursday that lawyers for Strauss-Kahn and the housekeeper, Nafissatou Diallo, made the as-yet-unsigned agreement within recent days, with Bronx Supreme Court Justice Douglas McKeon facilitating that and a separate agreement to end another lawsuit Diallo filed against the New York Post. A court date is expected next week, though the day wasn't set, the person said.
The person spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity to discuss the private agreement.
Details of the deal, which comes after prosecutors dropped related criminal charges last year, weren't immediately known and likely will be veiled by a confidentiality agreement. That could prevent Strauss-Kahn and Diallo from speaking publicly about a May 2011 encounter that she called a brutally sudden attack and he termed a consensual "moral failing."
Strauss-Kahn lawyer William W. Taylor III declined to comment. Lawyers for the housekeeper didn't immediately respond to phone and email messages.
Diallo, 33, and Strauss-Kahn, 63, crossed paths when she arrived to clean his luxury Manhattan hotel suite. She told police he chased her down, tried to yank down her pantyhose and forced her to perform oral sex.
The allegation seemed to let loose a spiral of accusations about the sexual conduct of Strauss-Kahn, a married diplomat and economist who had long been dubbed the "great seducer."
With DNA evidence showing a sexual encounter and Diallo providing a gripping description of an attack, the Manhattan district attorney's office initially said it had a strong and compelling case. But within six weeks, prosecutors' confidence began to ebb as they said Diallo had lied about her past — including a false account of a previous rape — and her actions after leaving Strauss-Kahn's room.
Diallo, who's from Guinea, said she told the truth about their encounter. But the district attorney's office dropped the charges in August 2011, saying prosecutors could no longer ask a jury to believe her.
Diallo had sued Strauss-Kahn in the meantime, with her lawyers saying she would get her day in a different court. Strauss-Kahn called the lawsuit defamatory and countersued her for $1 million.
Strauss-Kahn's whereabouts Friday were unclear. After his return to France in September 2011, Strauss-Kahn initially kept a very low profile. But in recent months, he has shown signs he is trying to rebuild his professional reputation, giving speeches at international conferences and reportedly setting up a consulting company in Paris.
Unconfirmed reports surfaced Wednesday that Diallo was in Paris this week on the invitation of a feminist group. A French lawyer who works with her U.S. defense team, Thierry de Montbrial, told The Associated Press that the reports were untrue. He declined any comment on the settlement.
Diallo's lawsuit against The Post concerned a series of articles that called her a prostitute and said she sold sex at a hotel where the Manhattan DA's office had housed her during the criminal case. The News Corp. newspaper has said it stands by its reporting; a spokeswoman declined to comment Thursday.
In helping resolve the cases, McKeon averted what could have been an ugly court drama.
Strauss-Kahn initially said he had diplomatic immunity, an argument the judge turned down in May. Strauss-Kahn's lawyers had since asked McKeon to throw out part of her claim for other legal reasons. Court records show the judge had yet to rule on that and several other legal issues, and it appeared that a high-stakes step — depositions, or pretrial questioning under oath — had not yet been taken. Depositions can give both sides information and a better picture of how strong the key parties and other witnesses might be in court.
While the vast majority of civil cases end in settlements, some legal observers were surprised that the deal between Strauss-Kahn and Diallo came before the legal arguments were resolved.
"I really expected it to go a little farther," said Matthew Galluzzo, a criminal defense lawyer and civil litigator who has been following the Strauss-Kahn case closely.
Still, the case likely had taken a toll on both Diallo, a single mother of a teenage daughter, and Strauss-Kahn, who has found himself plagued by accusations of sexual misconduct that further sullied his reputation. The Socialist had been seen as a potential leading candidate for the French presidency before his New York arrest.
In France, judges are to decide by Dec. 19 whether to annul charges linking him to a suspected prostitution ring run out of a luxury hotel in Lille. He acknowledges attending "libertine" gatherings but denies knowing that some women present were paid.
In August, a separate case against Strauss-Kahn, centered on allegations of rape in a Washington, D.C., hotel, was dropped after French prosecutors said the accuser, an escort, changed her account to say she wasn't raped.
Soon after Strauss-Kahn's arrest in New York last year, French writer Tristane Banon accused him of attempting to rape her during an interview in 2003, a claim he called imaginary and slanderous. Prosecutors said they believed the encounter qualified as a sexual assault, but the legal timeframe to pursue her complaint had elapsed.
The Associated Press does not name people who report being sexually assaulted unless they come forward publicly, as Diallo and Banon have done.
Strauss-Kahn has separated from his wife, journalist and heiress Anne Sinclair, who stood by him through the allegations in New York. The two said they were filing a lawsuit this summer against a French magazine, citing invasion of privacy, for reporting they had split, but Sinclair later acknowledged it was true.
The New York Times first reported the agreement between Strauss-Kahn and Diallo.
You see that, garbon? $6M?
You can let yourself get molested by an old lech, too. Score at least a good $6K.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 30, 2012, 02:00:48 PM
You see that, garbon? $6M?
You can let yourself get molested by an old lech, too. Score at least a good $6K.
Set it up!
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 01, 2011, 11:39:45 AM
Moral: Don't get raped by someone with powerful connections.
Turns out you were only partly correct.
Funnily this was the first post I saw when I hit the new button. Hadnt read the thread is a while.