Languish.org

So as I've told some of you, I am moving up to the college ranks in football officiating. Yeah me!

One of the things I am already being exposed to is film, and boy do the college guys LOVE film!

So I've been watching a lot, and though I might share some of the more interesting clips we get, and see what anyone interested in football thinks, looking at some calls from the stripes perspective. If you could not care less, that is fine - feel free to have a burrito instead.

So here is one - is this pass interference, and if so, is it offensive or defensive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpyHUxtyH8Q&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpyHUxtyH8Q&feature=player_embedded)

Frick, I dunno.  But I'm curious what the answer is.

I don't think I'd call anything on that play. Judging from the title of the clip, I assume it's supposed to be offensive pass interference?

I think it should be a no-call.  After slowing it down and looking at it frame-by-frame I would say it should be called on the defense, teh OSU player got his hand into the receiver first, can't tell who grabs who after that.

Which one are you Berkut?

Offensive or no call.  Ole Miss guy was grabbing the Pokes players shoulder and kinda pulling him back just before the ball got there, but there was a lot of that shit going on.  I don't know if it matters, but they both seemed to be looking back at the ball while they were knocking each other around trying to get position, etc, but the shoulder grab kinda stood out for some reason.  OkState player was in position to get the INT more than WR was to make the catch, but I don't know if that matters either.  If I had to throw a flag, I'd hit the WR with it.  I'm sure as hell not a ref though.

That was the worst game, btw.

Oh and congrats on being an NCAA ref now.  :) 

Not to hijack your topic this early but I had a question for you Berkut. 

The NFL is moving the Umpire from the defensive backfield to the offensive backfield, specifically 14 yards behind either offensive tackle.  The last 2 minutes of each half they will line up in their old position to speed up the spot of the ball.

What is your thoughts as an official on this? 

Quote from: sbr on May 01, 2010, 12:11:24 AM
What is your thoughts as an official on this?

Will there be a giant cross swapped with where the umpire used to be? If so, Berk is against it.

Quote from: sbr on May 01, 2010, 12:11:24 AM
Not to hijack your topic this early but I had a question for you Berkut. 

The NFL is moving the Umpire from the defensive backfield to the offensive backfield, specifically 14 yards behind either offensive tackle.  The last 2 minutes of each half they will line up in their old position to speed up the spot of the ball.

What is your thoughts as an official on this? 

I don't like it. I understand why they are doing it, but I think it leaves the middle of the field empty of eyes, and puts more pressure on the two wing officials, who already have the toughest jobs on the field.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 01, 2010, 12:08:42 AM
Offensive or no call.  Ole Miss guy was grabbing the Pokes players shoulder and kinda pulling him back just before the ball got there, but there was a lot of that shit going on.  I don't know if it matters, but they both seemed to be looking back at the ball while they were knocking each other around trying to get position, etc, but the shoulder grab kinda stood out for some reason.  OkState player was in position to get the INT more than WR was to make the catch, but I don't know if that matters either.  If I had to throw a flag, I'd hit the WR with it.  I'm sure as hell not a ref though.

That was the worst game, btw.

Oh and congrats on being an NCAA ref now.  :) 

Thanks.

Yep - that is generally the consensus. There is quite a bit of contact, but

1. Both players were playing the ball, rather than each other, and
2. The contact is pretty even - neither player is really gaining much of an advantage from the contact.

I could see, however, DPI or OPI being supported. DPI because the *first* contact seems to be when they receiver moves inside, and the defender sticks his arm out and seems to hold him up a little bit.

OPI because the receiver then turns around and seems to hold up the defender when it becomes clear that the ball is over-thrown, and the defender has the better shot at it.

But I think the right call is nothing.

Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2010, 12:37:09 AM

Quote from: sbr on May 01, 2010, 12:11:24 AM
What is your thoughts as an official on this?

Will there be a giant cross swapped with where the umpire used to be? If so, Berk is against it.

The cross would be fine, but the swap, not so much.

So if the players do a post game prayer, are you going to tackle them and break it up?

Anyways, as for the video, no call.

It seems like a no-call to me.  There was quite a bit of pulling and hand-fighting in there, but they were both playing the ball.  You could probably call DPI on the little tug the defender gives him after he cuts inside, but that would be pretty ticky-tack, especially since he still wouldn't have been able to make the catch because of the overthrow and the fact that the defender had much better position.  Of course, you could easily call OPI on the little tug-and-turn that the receiver gives him once it's clear that the defender had a better chance at the ball.  Still, they were both trying to make a play on the ball the whole time, not take the other guy out.  Even when the receiver grabbed on for a quarter-second, he was still looking for the ball.  Because of that, I'd say that the two potentially flaggable moments should get a pass, as neither really made a play or kept a play from being made.

If I had to call a penalty there, OPI would be the call.  Really, grabbing a guy by the shoulder and turning him, even a little, is a stupid thing to do.  It's very visible to officials, and will draw flags.

Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2010, 07:18:39 AM

Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2010, 12:37:09 AM

Will there be a giant cross swapped with where the umpire used to be? If so, Berk is against it.

The cross would be fine, but the swap, not so much.

:)

Okay, here is another one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR_6yeHoAak&feature=player_embedded#!

This is an interesting play. The call was certainly wrong. Why?

Also, could this be OPI?

If the commentator is right then call was in error because the contact occured before the ball was in the air and apparently it is ok to hit a reciever going down field before the ball is in the air.

Not sure why it could be OPI it seems the offensive player was just trying to shake off the hit.

Had the QB even thrown the ball?  It's illegal contact at best.

Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2010, 10:17:46 AM
If the commentator is right then call was in error because the contact occured before the ball was in the air and apparently it is ok to hit a reciever going down field before the ball is in the air.

Almost correct. You cannot have pass interference until the ball is in the air, but that does not mean it is legal to hit a receiver.

Once it is clear that a receiver is NOT a potential blocker, you cannot hit them. And if you watch the receiver on this play, he is NOT creating the contact. B15 steps to his right to put himself into the receivers path, forcing the receiver to the outside, then B15 hits him. You only get the "potential blocker" exception (as the defense) when you are holding your ground - not when you are moving into the receivers route. And it isn't a "who gets there first" thing either.

You see this a lot with a TE dragging across the middle. If the TE cuts underneath a LB, and the LB steps up into his path (even if he gets there first) the resulting  contact is (or should be) either DPI (if the pass is in the air) or defensive holding.

Interesting, I figured it would be more like the charging/blocking call in basketball.  So at what point does the defender have the right to the space he is on?  It really looks to me like the offensive player just runs straight into the defensive player, does the DB just have to let himself get run over there?

Quote from: Berkut on April 30, 2010, 11:29:21 PM
So as I've told some of you, I am moving up to the college ranks in football officiating. Yeah me!

Congrats on the call-up, Berkie!

:cheers:

Quote from: sbr on May 01, 2010, 01:11:05 PM
Interesting, I figured it would be more like the charging/blocking call in basketball.  So at what point does the defender have the right to the space he is on?  It really looks to me like the offensive player just runs straight into the defensive player, does the DB just have to let himself get run over there?

The defensive player does have the right to a spot on the field of course, but that spot cannot be taken in a manner designed to force the receiver off of their route. The receiver is allowed to run their route unimpeded.

The exception to this rule is when the receiver is a potential blocker. Presumably, the defender doesn't know that the receiver isn't going to come block them for a running play, but if that is the case, then the contact needs to be initiated by the receiver. Watch the route again - the receiver is running a wheel route. The "matchup" the announcer mentions is actually NOT where the play happens. The receiver (A15) is actually inside, a comes underneath on a wheel route towards the sideline. B11 steps to his right, into the route, then hits the receiver, then turns in and makes the interception. If you notice, when the play starts, eh is lined up inside the "40" on the field, then hits the receiver well outside of it.

The closeup is kind of misleading, but you can see what I mean when you watch the entire play. The receiver is actually trying to get into his route, and the defender slides over.

It is specifically NOT like basketball, in fact. Funny that you mention that - one of the people who wrote the high school rule on this commented in the discussion thread that they specifically wrote the rule to NOT be like basketball. You cannot knock a receiver off of their route, unless that receiver is a potential blocker who is coming after you.

What level of college ball are you going to?

Quote from: dps on May 01, 2010, 03:08:46 PM
What level of college ball are you going to?

Division-3.

Keep them coming Berk.  This is good fun.

Hehe, one of the plays we were just looking at was from the Arizona-Nebraska Holiday Bowl.

Oh, man - I had forgotten all about that!

Roughing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdhBuv6d-ks&feature=player_embedded

Quote from: Berkut on May 02, 2010, 07:11:41 PM
Hehe, one of the plays we were just looking at was from the Arizona-Nebraska Holiday Bowl.

Oh, man - I had forgotten all about that!

Roughing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdhBuv6d-ks&feature=player_embedded

Didn't look like it to me.  The defensive player started his move before the ball was thrown, and backed off on the play when the ball left the QB's hand.  That wasn't a tackle at all, just an incidental contact made because the defender couldn't completely stop.

I disagree with grumbler, I didn't think he pulled back much.