Source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1267230/England-branded-patriotic-nation-Europe.html) - didn't want to go with the Daily Mail, but it had a longer article than the Metro (here (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/822485-england-is-the-least-patriotic-country-in-europe-says-study)).
QuoteEngland branded least patriotic nation in Europe as citizens are too scared to fly the flag
The English rate themselves the least patriotic nation in Europe, a poll suggests.
Almost half said their country had lost its identity in the face of European interference and political correctness.
The findings were published in advance of St George's Day which, as two thirds of those polled did not know, is on April 23 – this Friday.
They showed that on average, English people rate their patriotism at slightly below six on a scale out of ten, behind the Scots, Welsh and Irish and far in the wake of the Dutch, the most patriotic people on the continent.
Only one in ten would happily fly the cross of St George to celebrate the national saint's day.
Double that number said they thought they would be told by authorities to remove it if they flew it from their house.
Despite calls from public figures ranging from Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu to Gordon Brown for more celebrations of the English national day, there has been clear disapproval from many public authorities.
In 2008 St George's Day parades were banned by local authorities in Bradford and Sandwell in the West Midlands on the grounds they could cause trouble or were 'unhealthy' and 'tribal'.
Last year Mr Brown's instruction that public buildings in England should fly the flag on 23 April were undermined by the production of a European map drawn up in Brussels that wiped England off altogether and replaced the country with a series of EU regions.
The new survey showed that six per cent of English people are scared to show the flag and around 18 per cent are worried that if they do they will be instructed by officialdom to take it down.
Only a third are aware that 23 April is St George's Day and four out of 10 have no idea why he is England's patron saint.
One in 10 of the English are happy to fly the flag, compared with one in three Dutch people willing to fly their own tricolor.
More than one in four English people said they feared being branded racist, but four out of 10 said they would happily express their national pride behind closed doors.
Four out of 10 said they felt England had completely lost its national identity.
The same number said the only time they felt a real sense of patriotism was during big sporting events or competitions, with 53 per cent claiming the World Cup was the main spark, followed by the Olympics.
However, three out of ten said they felt waves of patriotism in the wake of terrorist atrocities in our towns and cities.
While English people put their patriotism at 5.8 out of 10, Scots ranked their patriotism at 7.1, the Welsh at 7.06 and the Irish at 6.72.
The Dutch were the most patriotic European country at 7.18, while the French scored 6.44 and the Germans ranked their love of country just ahead of the English at 5.81.
This is why I'm proud to be British! No flag-humping nonsense - just pure cynicism! :)
I wonder what the answers to the same question about the Union Flag would be?
I see plenty of the George Cross during the World Cup. Even I fly one from my car.
My primary identity is British, not English; I'd guess that is true for a large number of the English. English patriotism only comes out at the occasional sporting event, and I'd be quite willing to cheer Scotland in a competition where England had been knocked out. Whereas I think that Scots, Welsh and Irish consider themselves to be that before they think of themselves as British, so the reverse is not true.
QuoteThe same number said the only time they felt a real sense of patriotism was during big sporting events or competitions, with 53 per cent claiming the World Cup was the main spark, followed by the Olympics.
The Olympics, of course, being where a British team competes, not an English team. Also consider there is no English national anthem; whenever an England team plays, the national anthem of the UK is used.
As Barrister says, asking about the Union Flag would be more interesting; after all, every social club in my hometown flies it automatically.
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2010, 05:13:06 PMI wonder what the answers to the same question about the Union Flag would be?
Probably crappy too.
Quote from: Josephus on April 20, 2010, 05:14:57 PMI see plenty of the George Cross during the World Cup. Even I fly one from my car.
Until we lose! :P
You people disgust me. THANK GOD we threw your asses out. :mad:
Quote from: Agelastus on April 20, 2010, 05:24:18 PM
My primary identity is British, not English; I'd guess that is true for a large number of the English. English patriotism only comes out at the occasional sporting event, and I'd be quite willing to cheer Scotland in a competition where England had been knocked out. Whereas I think that Scots, Welsh and Irish consider themselves to be that before they think of themselves as British, so the reverse is not true.
QuoteThe same number said the only time they felt a real sense of patriotism was during big sporting events or competitions, with 53 per cent claiming the World Cup was the main spark, followed by the Olympics.
The Olympics, of course, being where a British team competes, not an English team. Also consider there is no English national anthem; whenever an England team plays, the national anthem of the UK is used.
As Barrister says, asking about the Union Flag would be more interesting; after all, every social club in my hometown flies it automatically.
I prefer to identify as British too, as I have ancestry from all constituent cultures. This makes British seem the logical term.
However, I wouldn't say I was particularly "patriotic". Being patriotic is so un-British! :bowler:
English nationalism often shows itself as a chippy resentment of foreigners :lol:
Having said that we've never had a great national day. The Scots celebrate Burns' Night, not St Andrew's day and the Irish celebrate St Patrick's because they're Catholic and Catholics have less issue with Saints in general. If I had to say the closest England has ever had to a national day is May Day.
Armistice Day? :huh:
Margaret Thatcher's birthday should be our national day. Just to piss off the Scots.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 20, 2010, 05:31:53 PM
English nationalism often shows itself as a chippy resentment of foreigners :lol:
Having said that we've never had a great national day. The Scots celebrate Burns' Night, not St Andrew's day and the Irish celebrate St Patrick's because they're Catholic and Catholics have less issue with Saints in general. If I had to say the closest England has ever had to a national day is May Day.
Y'all need to start celebrating Victoria Day. :contract:
Quote from: Caliga on April 20, 2010, 05:33:27 PM
Armistice Day? :huh:
National day = bank holiday and drinking. Armistice day is more a moment of silence, everyone wearing poppies and marches on Remembrance Sunday.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 20, 2010, 05:36:33 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 20, 2010, 05:33:27 PM
Armistice Day? :huh:
National day = bank holiday and drinking. Armistice day is more a moment of silence, everyone wearing poppies and marches on Remembrance Sunday.
Agreed. You don't "celebrate" Armistice Day; too high a price was paid.
I wouldn't list May Day as being close to a National Day though. It's just like any other non-Christian origin bank holiday. If anything the closest England gets to a national day such as Burns Night or St. Patricks Day is the Notting Hill Carnival - and that's limited to one small area of London.
Armistice day - more commonly known as Remembrance day here - is not English at all, not even British, it is a commemoration of the sacrifice made by Commonwealth and Imperial troops.
Which illustrates why the article is a load of cobblers.
Patriotism is a pretty diffuse thing for an Englishman; being British is the most important thing for most I would guess, then being English, then our ties with places like Canada, Australia and NZ.
The English flags are starting to go up round here as we near the World Cup; which is by far the most important thing that "England" actually does in most people's minds.
It's hard to imagine that the English are less patriotic than Belgians.
Agreed that Rememberance Day is NOT a patriotic holiday. You wear poppies, not flags, etc.
From the article:
QuoteMOST PATRIOTIC COUNTRIES IN EUROPE (level of patriotism marked out of 10)
Netherlands - 7.18
Scotland - 7.1
Wales - 7.06
Italy - 7.01
Ireland - 6.72
Spain - 6.57
France - 6.44
Germany - 5.81
England - 5.80
Why are the Dutch top? What do they have to be proud about?
Quote from: Agelastus on April 20, 2010, 05:42:50 PM
I wouldn't list May Day as being close to a National Day though. It's just like any other non-Christian origin bank holiday. If anything the closest England gets to a national day such as Burns Night or St. Patricks Day is the Notting Hill Carnival - and that's limited to one small area of London.
May Day's the closest I can think to something that was, historically, celebrated throughout the country though it wasn't an affirmation of nationhood, it was like all English holidays, largely an excuse for drinking so far as I can tell.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 20, 2010, 05:51:55 PM
May Day's the closest I can think to something that was, historically, celebrated throughout the country though it wasn't an affirmation of nationhood, it was like all English holidays, largely an excuse for drinking so far as I can tell.
:cheers:
As a holiday should be.
All the fuss about binge drinking over the last few months as if it was something new in British culture shows a fundamental lack of knowledge of history.
I blame Nick Griffin
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsjunction.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F11%2Fnick-griffin-the-bnp-lead-001.jpg&hash=648757255c608a9cd1df1e10f612e2c89e6740c1)
Quote from: Palisadoes on April 20, 2010, 05:50:40 PM
From the article:
QuoteMOST PATRIOTIC COUNTRIES IN EUROPE (level of patriotism marked out of 10)
Netherlands - 7.18
Scotland - 7.1
Wales - 7.06
Italy - 7.01
Ireland - 6.72
Spain - 6.57
France - 6.44
Germany - 5.81
England - 5.80
Why are the Dutch top? What do they have to be proud about?
They have to shout loudly because they have Germany to the east and France to the south (Belgium doesn't count.)
It's like Scotland and Wales shouting loudly because of "big, bad, England".
Why is St. George the patron saint of England anyway? He wasn't English, they aren't Catholic, and dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
Patriotism is for inferior countries to try and cover up for their suckyness.
I'm British. I'm Bernician. I'm European. The only time I'm ever English is in sports.
QuoteWhy is St. George the patron saint of England anyway? He wasn't English, they aren't Catholic, and dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
It should be St.Cuthbert <_<
I think England has St.George purely from when English sailors use to fly the Genoese flag in the Mediteranian for protection.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:22:26 PM
Why is St. George the patron saint of England anyway? He wasn't English, they aren't Catholic, and dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
I believe the standard answer involves the Crusades, Edward III and Shakespeare.
Grumbler, of course, probably feels that this is all new-fangled nonsense. When he was a lad, Saint Edmund was good enough for any Englishman.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:22:26 PM
dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
Well of course they're not
anymore. Thanks, St. George! :bowler:
Quote from: Caliga on April 20, 2010, 06:35:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:22:26 PM
dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
Well of course they're not anymore. Thanks, St. George! :bowler:
They probably left when St. Patrick banished the Snakes from Ireland. Typical English, taking credit for the work of an Irishmen.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:22:26 PM
Why is St. George the patron saint of England anyway? He wasn't English, they aren't Catholic, and dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
St. George is the (a) patron saint of soldiers, so he was the favorite saint of many of the Norman conquerors of England. He was a knight that killed a dragon and then got tortured to death for his faith. He's a knight superstar.
If I remember the dragon story, then it happens in Egypt. So I'm guessing he killed a nile crocodile with a taste for ape flesh without the usual hairballs.
It happened in Palestine.
Quote from: Agelastus on April 20, 2010, 06:31:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:22:26 PM
Why is St. George the patron saint of England anyway? He wasn't English, they aren't Catholic, and dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
I believe the standard answer involves the Crusades, Edward III and Shakespeare.
Grumbler, of course, probably feels that this is all new-fangled nonsense. When he was a lad, Saint Edmund was good enough for any Englishman.
When grumbler was a lad, England was covered by glaciers and uninhabitable tundra.
And yet most of the top threads right now are about England...
Quote from: garbon on April 20, 2010, 06:56:35 PM
And yet most of the top threads right now are about England...
Have you read the threads? We're just slagging ourselves off.
QuoteOnly a third are aware that 23 April is St George's Day and four out of 10 have no idea why he is England's patron saint
Lack of patriotism, or just lack of education?
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:22:26 PM
dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
That's because he killed them. :contract:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 20, 2010, 07:41:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:22:26 PM
dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
That's because he killed them. :contract:
Tim: Unafraid to make a joke two hours after someone else has.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 20, 2010, 07:41:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:22:26 PM
dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
That's because he killed them. :contract:
Tim: Unafraid to make a joke two hours after someone else has.
I actually was in the middle of writing that 2 hours ago, but had to leave my computer. Once I got back I finished it up and posted it.
Okay... Tim: The type of guy who spends two hours to write a five word sentence.
The Patriots were the ones who fought against England. Duh. Everyone left in Great Britain now is by definition a Tory. Even the Labour Tories. :P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 20, 2010, 05:45:53 PM
It's hard to imagine that the English are less patriotic than Belgians.
belgians don't exist.
Oh yeah, where to those waffles come from?
Quote from: Razgovory on April 21, 2010, 12:35:23 AM
Oh yeah, where to those waffles come from?
The gas station where Cal has his breakfast. We have GOT to list that place on Zagat or Yelp or something.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 20, 2010, 06:35:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 06:22:26 PM
dragons don't seem to be a severe problem in England.
Well of course they're not anymore. Thanks, St. George! :bowler:
They probably left when St. Patrick banished the Snakes from Ireland. Typical English, taking credit for the work of an Irishmen.
Ah, but St Patrick was Romano-British, though it is not clear which part of Britain he was from.
Since England isn't a country comparing its "patriotism" to countries seems a bit silly.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 21, 2010, 01:01:54 AM
The gas station where Cal has his breakfast. We have GOT to list that place on Zagat or Yelp or something.
Indeed. If the SF pot truffle man has a yelp entry...
Quote from: Agelastus on April 20, 2010, 05:24:18 PM
My primary identity is British, not English; I'd guess that is true for a large number of the English. English patriotism only comes out at the occasional sporting event, and I'd be quite willing to cheer Scotland in a competition where England had been knocked out. Whereas I think that Scots, Welsh and Irish consider themselves to be that before they think of themselves as British, so the reverse is not true.
It's very obvious that you are not a football fan. No England football fan would dream of suporting Scotland against anyone other than Germany of Argentina. 30 years ago maybe, not now. I also think that most English pepole consider themselves just that and not British.
Quote from: Gups on April 21, 2010, 03:06:36 AM
I also think that most English pepole consider themselves just that and not British.
A sad development. :(
I'm 1/4 English
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 21, 2010, 03:59:26 AM
Quote from: Gups on April 21, 2010, 03:06:36 AM
I also think that most English pepole consider themselves just that and not British.
A sad development. :(
Why? Would you say the same about the Welsh, Scottish and Irish who are far more guilty of this (arguably because they have a stronger national identity*)?
* funny accents
Quote from: Gups on April 21, 2010, 03:06:36 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on April 20, 2010, 05:24:18 PM
My primary identity is British, not English; I'd guess that is true for a large number of the English. English patriotism only comes out at the occasional sporting event, and I'd be quite willing to cheer Scotland in a competition where England had been knocked out. Whereas I think that Scots, Welsh and Irish consider themselves to be that before they think of themselves as British, so the reverse is not true.
It's very obvious that you are not a football fan. No England football fan would dream of suporting Scotland against anyone other than Germany of Argentina. 30 years ago maybe, not now. I also think that most English pepole consider themselves just that and not British.
There is also a Celtic cabal - the Welsh, Irish and Scots will always support each other in a rugby or fotball match against England. In fact, they will genrally support whoever we're playing against!
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 08:14:01 PM
Okay... Tim: The type of guy who spends two hours to write a five word sentence.
:lol:
Quote from: dps on April 20, 2010, 07:28:33 PM
QuoteOnly a third are aware that 23 April is St George's Day and four out of 10 have no idea why he is England's patron saint
Lack of patriotism, or just lack of education?
Lack of a calender.
Increasingly people don't bother with them these days
Quote from: Brazen on April 21, 2010, 04:07:07 AM
There is also a Celtic cabal - the Welsh, Irish and Scots will always support each other in a rugby or fotball match against England. In fact, they will genrally support whoever we're playing against![/quote]
Their entire nationalism and identity is based upon hating and being different from the English! :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palisadoes on April 21, 2010, 05:49:46 AM
Their entire nationalism and identity is based upon hating and being different from the English! :rolleyes:
Quite.
Football is a HUGE contributer to Scotish nationalism.
I always wondered what the state of the SNP would be if back in the early 20th century a British team had been formed instead of English, Scottish, etc...
Quote from: Tyr on April 21, 2010, 05:56:29 AM
Football is a HUGE contributer to Scotish nationalism.
Let's not forget fuelling the internal Catholic/Proddy conflicts.
Quote from: Tyr on April 21, 2010, 05:56:29 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on April 21, 2010, 05:49:46 AM
Their entire nationalism and identity is based upon hating and being different from the English! :rolleyes:
Quite.
Football is a HUGE contributer to Scotish nationalism.
I always wondered what the state of the SNP would be if back in the early 20th century a British team had been formed instead of English.
And that's probably the reason nutty separatists want their own 'national' teams... oddly enough, when told the plain truth, that having four teams has led to England having got no titles in the last 45 years (and the 1966 World Cup is the only first class title England ever got) and to Scotland, Wales and North Ireland being mere stooges, they go ballistic!
I have a George Cross Flag. I'm gooing to hang it in my office for the World Cup :cool:
Go England!
Quote from: Alatriste on April 21, 2010, 06:34:45 AM
Quote from: Tyr on April 21, 2010, 05:56:29 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on April 21, 2010, 05:49:46 AM
Their entire nationalism and identity is based upon hating and being different from the English! :rolleyes:
Quite.
Football is a HUGE contributer to Scotish nationalism.
I always wondered what the state of the SNP would be if back in the early 20th century a British team had been formed instead of English.
And that's probably the reason nutty separatists want their own 'national' teams... oddly enough, when told the plain truth, that having four teams has led to England having got no titles in the last 45 years (and the 1966 World Cup is the only first class title England ever got) and to Scotland, Wales and North Ireland being mere stooges, they go ballistic!
I just think every time a castillian looks at british football he shudders to think that first of all, "we have only one first class title" and second of alll "if the catalans, basques, gallegos and andalucians only go their act together spain never will win a second first class title"
Quote from: Alatriste on April 21, 2010, 06:34:45 AM
And that's probably the reason nutty separatists want their own 'national' teams... oddly enough, when told the plain truth, that having four teams has led to England having got no titles in the last 45 years (and the 1966 World Cup is the only first class title England ever got) and to Scotland, Wales and North Ireland being mere stooges, they go ballistic!
Do "they" really go ballistic? I'm surprised - a look of incredulity would be more apropriate. The fact is it's made no difference at all. How many Scottish players would get into the England team right now? Can you even name any without googling? We'd have to go back to the late 70s to find a time when more than one non-English player could get into the team and Giggs wouldn't have made all that much difference.
Quote from: Gups on April 21, 2010, 03:06:36 AM
It's very obvious that you are not a football fan. No England football fan would dream of suporting Scotland against anyone other than Germany of Argentina. 30 years ago maybe, not now. I also think that most English pepole consider themselves just that and not British.
Obviously, I disagree with you; and although I would not consider myself a fanatic, my long term support of Liverpool and loathing of Arsenal indicates I am not entirely dispassionate about football.
Nevertheless, were Arsenal still in a European competition with Liverpool knocked out, I would support Arsenal over their opponents; the same principal applies to the "national" teams of Great Britain.
Of course, in its own way, my attitude is as narrow-minded as that of the people you are referring to. It does, however, reinforce the point that my patriotism is British, not English, and I think that attitude is more prevalent in England than you believe.
I know a lot of Liverpool fans. Not a single one of them would support Man Utd in any European match. I'd be surprised if they weren't in the overwhelming majority. The reverse is also true.
I know even more England fans and not one of them would support Scotland, except against Germany and Argentina. I think this is a relatively new development (i.e since the 80s) as I do recall people supporting Scotland in the 78 World Cup.
Quote from: Gups on April 21, 2010, 06:55:17 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on April 21, 2010, 06:34:45 AM
And that's probably the reason nutty separatists want their own 'national' teams... oddly enough, when told the plain truth, that having four teams has led to England having got no titles in the last 45 years (and the 1966 World Cup is the only first class title England ever got) and to Scotland, Wales and North Ireland being mere stooges, they go ballistic!
Do "they" really go ballistic? I'm surprised - a look of incredulity would be more apropriate. The fact is it's made no difference at all. How many Scottish players would get into the England team right now? Can you even name any without googling? We'd have to go back to the late 70s to find a time when more than one non-English player could get into the team and Giggs wouldn't have made all that much difference.
Craig Gordon
Just to back up my earlier post with something a bit more than anecdotal see
http://soccerlens.com/football-rivalry/10301/
Football Fans Census did a poll of close to 3,000 fans in this country on the topic of rivalry, looking at which teams regard each other as their main rival, the derogatory names for their most hated rivals and the reasons behind the rivalries forming, with rather interesting findings.
....
Over three-quarters of fans would rather thrash their rivals than beat them with a last minute winner, and three-quarters of fans would support the opposition if their main rivals were playing in Europe. Following a supposed need to 'support English teams in Europe', I'm glad so many people can be honest and confess. A sad 9% have said they would support their main rival.
Quote from: Gups on April 21, 2010, 07:03:59 AM
I know a lot of Liverpool fans. Not a single one of them would support Man Utd in any European match. I'd be surprised if they weren't in the overwhelming majority. The reverse is also true.
Support of the big teams is a lot more diffuse in the country, and the responses of the self-identified fans may not reflect majority opinion.
Still, you may be right. I don't think I'm in that much of a minority though, anecdotal evidence being the viewing figures for European cup finals involving an English team.
Quote from: Gups on April 21, 2010, 07:03:59 AM
I know even more England fans and not one of them would support Scotland, except against Germany and Argentina. I think this is a relatively new development (i.e since the 80s) as I do recall people supporting Scotland in the 78 World Cup.
I think the only way we'll know if this is a long term trend or just a blip is if Scotland (or Wales or Northern Ireland) qualify for the World Cup and England doesn't. In those circumstances I will quite happily cheer for Scotland, and I am hopeful the rest of England would as well.
And as a final comment, using football as the benchmark for support of other "Home Nation" teams abroad may be unwise. While football is the biggest such sport, it is not the only such sport - and football is probably the most "tribal" sport in terms of its fans in the country.
Gups, surely you're not suggesting that the English view Scotland or Wales as their main rival in international fodbol.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2010, 07:24:21 AM
Gups, surely you're not suggesting that the English view Scotland or Wales as their main rival in international fodbol.
Depends - association or rugby? :P
Quote from: Brazen on April 21, 2010, 07:26:17 AM
Depends - association or rugby? :P
Fodbol refers specifically to association. :nerd:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2010, 07:24:21 AM
Gups, surely you're not suggesting that the English view Scotland or Wales as their main rival in international fodbol.
Of course not. Wales haven't qualified for a major tournament since the 50s and Scotland have been dreadful for a decade or more. England fans see Germany and Argentina as their main rivals but would support any other team against Scotland. I think this is largely a result of decades of Scottish hatred towards us. Wales just aren't important enough to care about one way or the other - personally I'd like them to do well but I don't know if this is a general view.
Quote from: Gups on April 21, 2010, 06:55:17 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on April 21, 2010, 06:34:45 AM
And that's probably the reason nutty separatists want their own 'national' teams... oddly enough, when told the plain truth, that having four teams has led to England having got no titles in the last 45 years (and the 1966 World Cup is the only first class title England ever got) and to Scotland, Wales and North Ireland being mere stooges, they go ballistic!
Do "they" really go ballistic? I'm surprised - a look of incredulity would be more apropriate. The fact is it's made no difference at all. How many Scottish players would get into the England team right now? Can you even name any without googling? We'd have to go back to the late 70s to find a time when more than one non-English player could get into the team and Giggs wouldn't have made all that much difference.
Well they mainly go ballistic because they absolutely hated "their" football fans partying with red t-shirts and Spanish flags in 2008 (that was also painfully evident when our basketball team won the World Championship, by the way... what an awful sight for them, Catalans like the Gasol brothers partying with players from Andalusia and Madrid like Reyes and Garbajosa!)
No, I'm not joking.
The other points that make them rage are
- by implication, that suggests Catalonian and Basque teams would be stooges too... when they dream of duplicating Barcelona's triumphs (that Barça has got Argentinians like Messi, French like Henry, Swedes like Ibrahimovic, Brazilians like Alves, etc, etc, somehow gets forgotten... if you remember them that they would be playing against all of Germany or Italy with only half Barça, and not the best one, results aren't pretty)
- They very much would choose to be hanged separately over hanging together. Saying to them that it is better to win all together just infuriates them.
@Viking
We already got two titles... 1964 and 2008 :lol:
And the funniest part is, Catalan and Basque separatists are
against Andalusia, Castile, Valencia or Galicia having their own teams because that means Catalonia and Euskadi wouldn't play against Spain. Get it? If every region gets a team then their cunning plan misfires.
OK, actually I thought you were talking about England fans going ballistic, hence my surprise.
It is somewhat interesting that in a discussion about patriotism, the British immediately discuss sport. I'd suspect in the US it would be more about supporting military operations and flying Old Glory in the front yard.
Obviously the rest of Europe would think of it in the context of national holidays, street parades and silly national costumes :P
Quote from: Agelastus on April 21, 2010, 07:20:04 AM
I think the only way we'll know if this is a long term trend or just a blip is if Scotland (or Wales or Northern Ireland) qualify for the World Cup and England doesn't. In those circumstances I will quite happily cheer for Scotland, and I am hopeful the rest of England would as well.
And as a final comment, using football as the benchmark for support of other "Home Nation" teams abroad may be unwise. While football is the biggest such sport, it is not the only such sport - and football is probably the most "tribal" sport in terms of its fans in the country.
hmm...Scotland I'm not so sure.
But I do remember back in 94 most of the country were Ireland fans.
England, Scotland, and Wales are countries now? Does that mean I can call Texas a country to? :showoff:
Quote from: Valmy on April 21, 2010, 10:44:50 AM
England, Scotland, and Wales are countries now? Does that mean I can call Texas a country to? :showoff:
:huh: Always have been, always will be.
And not since 1845.
Quote from: Brazen on April 21, 2010, 10:57:10 AM
:huh: Always have been, always will be.
So I guess the United States should recall our ambassador to the obviously fictional "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' and send three ambassadors to these three countries?
Texas is country, it's just not a country.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 21, 2010, 11:05:05 AM
Texas is country, it's just not a country.
Well except for those areas that are part of the three of the largest cities in the United States...
They're pretty country too. Well, Houston and Dallas are, San Antonio is probably more latin/tejano. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 21, 2010, 11:09:38 AM
They're pretty country too. Well, Houston and Dallas are, San Antonio is probably more latin/tejano. :P
Country? They are full of suburban snootiness.
Now Fort Worth...now that is a country city.
Quote from: Brazen on April 21, 2010, 10:57:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 21, 2010, 10:44:50 AM
England, Scotland, and Wales are countries now? Does that mean I can call Texas a country to? :showoff:
:huh: Always have been, always will be.
And not since 1845.
:huh: They are nations, but not countries.
Quote from: grumbler on April 21, 2010, 11:56:56 AM
Quote from: Brazen on April 21, 2010, 10:57:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 21, 2010, 10:44:50 AM
England, Scotland, and Wales are countries now? Does that mean I can call Texas a country to? :showoff:
:huh: Always have been, always will be.
And not since 1845.
:huh: They are nations, but not countries.
FIFA says otherwise...
Quote from: dps on April 20, 2010, 07:28:33 PM
QuoteOnly a third are aware that 23 April is St George's Day and four out of 10 have no idea why he is England's patron saint
Lack of patriotism, or just lack of education?
Well more that nothing happens then. English people know more about pancake Tuesday than St George's day. Celebrating it's a modern invention.
Quote from: Barrister on April 21, 2010, 11:59:22 AM
FIFA says otherwise...
FIFA's words are not even backed by nuclear weapons.
Quote from: grumbler on April 21, 2010, 02:41:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 21, 2010, 11:59:22 AM
FIFA says otherwise...
FIFA's words are not even backed by nuclear weapons.
They are backed by corruption and incompetence, however, so it is easy to see how a careless observer might assume they are a government.
Nation/country... who cares? They're all used interchangeably in the English language anyway. No need to get anal about it.
Quote from: Palisadoes on April 21, 2010, 03:34:09 PM
They're all used interchangeably in the English language anyway.
By idjits.
Quote from: Palisadoes on April 21, 2010, 03:34:09 PM
No need to get anal about it.
One never needs to get anal but one wants.
Quote from: Gups on April 21, 2010, 03:06:36 AMIt's very obvious that you are not a football fan. No England football fan would dream of suporting Scotland against anyone other than Germany of Argentina. 30 years ago maybe, not now. I also think that most English pepole consider themselves just that and not British.
Gups! You live! :cheers:
How's everything?
I'll bring patriotism to England. :swiss:
Quote from: Palisadoes on April 21, 2010, 03:34:09 PM
Nation/country... who cares? They're all used interchangeably in the English language anyway. No need to get anal about it.
Actually, they don't mean quite the same thing. Nations refer to people, not places. Countries are places, while states are legal entities. You are right that they are used interchangeably in the vernacular, however.
Quote from: grumbler on April 21, 2010, 07:08:40 PM
Quote from: Palisadoes on April 21, 2010, 03:34:09 PM
Nation/country... who cares? They're all used interchangeably in the English language anyway. No need to get anal about it.
Actually, they don't mean quite the same thing. Nations refer to people, not places. Countries are places, while states are legal entities. You are right that they are used interchangeably in the vernacular, however.
I know they mean different things, but it is commonplace to use them interchangeably regardless.