I fucking hate this guy, so I am: pleased :showoff:
QuoteLabor's Stern Said to Be Resigning
By KRIS MAHER
Andy Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union and one of the most prominent and powerful labor leaders in the country, is expected to resign his position with the union, according to an internal union email and one of the union's board members.
Mr. Stern's departure would cause a major realignment of the balance of power within organized labor, from labor-management relations to Washington lobbying efforts. It's not clear when an official announcement of his resignation will come or when it would take effect.
He has been credited with making the 1.8 million member SEIU one of the fastest-growing and most politically powerful unions. It spent more than $65 million in 2008 to help elect Barack Obama and Democratic majorities in Congress.
A member of SEIU's executive board said he received a phone call from SEIU's second-highest-ranking officer, Anna Burger, asking for his support as she sought to succeed Mr. Stern.
"He is resigning. They haven't given an exact date," said the board member.
The board member said that Mary Kay Henry, an SEIU executive vice president who oversees the union's long-term-care division, is also seeking to lead the union. "Right now it looks like it's between Anna Burger and Mary Kay Henry," he said.
Mr. Stern didn't return a phone call seeking comment. Ms. Burger, Ms. Henry and an SEIU spokeswoman couldn't be reached.
On Monday, Diane Sosne, president of a SEIU local in Washington state, sent an email to some SEIU staff that read, "Last night I received confirmation that Andy Stern is resigning as president of SEIU. He has not yet made a public announcement; we will share the details as we become aware of them."
The email was first reported in the Politico Web site.
Ms. Sosne didn't return an email message, and her office didn't return a call Monday.
Mr. Stern is well known among the business community for directing aggressive campaigns against companies in the janitorial and health-care sectors aimed at getting companies to remain neutral during union organizing drives.
Mr. Stern angered some in the labor movement when he pulled his union and several others out of the AFL-CIO in 2005, splitting the labor movement in half.
He and other leaders, including James Hoffa of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, went on to form the rival Change to Win federation. But the federation failed to gather momentum, and its executive director recently left.
Another union in the group, Unite Here, recent pulled out and rejoined the AFL-CIO in the midst of a long fight with SEIU over organizing in the hotel sector.
Over the past two years, Mr. Stern has been engaged in several internal union battles with California locals representing long-term nursing and other workers that were merged together, as part of the union's strategy of creating mega-locals focused by sector. "There will be quite an internal battle as to who succeeds him. There will be a lot of knives out there," an official with another union said on condition of anonymity.
What did he do to you?
His goons spent years trying to organize the medical center I worked at in Boston. He himself came up several times but I never saw him or anything.
They basically ruined Yale's medical center a few years before, so when we heard they were coming to town we were: less than pleased. They made all of management take a bunch of classes to learn how to deal with union organizers and what to say/not to say to them. I used to see those pricks walking around annoying people, including a chick that worked for me at one point. Fortunately, she was anti-union so I did not need to fire her. :)
I don't know if they were ultimately successful or not as I left to move down here, but as of the time of my relocation they had not succeeded yet.
*checks* it looks like they have not yet succeeded, but still haven't given up. They apparently did organize St. Elizabeth's in Boston, but that hospital sucks anyway. I'm sure they'll force it out of business now. :)
Quote from: Caliga on April 13, 2010, 07:19:40 AMFortunately, she was anti-union so I did not need to fire her. :)
If she hadn't been, would you have fired her ? Would it have been legal ?
I hate the SEIU. I have a choice of paying 64 bucks a month and being in the union or paying 64 a month and not being in the union.
When the budget vanished and there were gonna be layoffs we went to the reps asking how many, severance dealios, and all that crap. Their responses were usually that management hadn't told them yet and they were afraid of annoying them with questions.
They do, however, send out a lot of flyers and e-mails asking for donations to fund their efforts to organize workers in Puerto Rico or Florida. Idiots.
Quote from: Oexmelin on April 13, 2010, 07:48:24 AM
If she hadn't been, would you have fired her ? Would it have been legal ?
No, and no. :blush:
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 13, 2010, 07:50:50 AM
They do, however, send out a lot of flyers and e-mails asking for donations to fund their efforts to organize workers in Puerto Rico or Florida. Idiots.
Yeah. Because our CEO basically told Stern to fuck off and that he wouldn't help organize SEIU elections for him, he started running attack ads in the Boston media saying shit like our hospital was badly managed, was a ripoff, offered poor quality health care, and so on. Seems like a good way to get the hospital's employees to like you. :huh:
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 13, 2010, 07:50:50 AM
I hate the SEIU. I have a choice of paying 64 bucks a month and being in the union or paying 64 a month and not being in the union.
When the budget vanished and there were gonna be layoffs we went to the reps asking how many, severance dealios, and all that crap. Their responses were usually that management hadn't told them yet and they were afraid of annoying them with questions.
They do, however, send out a lot of flyers and e-mails asking for donations to fund their efforts to organize workers in Puerto Rico or Florida. Idiots.
Large unions are as fucked up as large businesses or large government. It is a facet of human nature that appears to be unavoidable as soon as you have bureaucracies making decisions, as the only people who get to be, or want to be, middle-level managers (of any of the three) are the kinds of morons who couldn't take a dump without written procedures.
Quote from: Caliga on April 13, 2010, 07:55:01 AM
Because our CEO basically told Stern to fuck off and that he wouldn't help organize SEIU elections for him, he started running attack ads in the Boston media saying shit like our hospital was badly managed, was a ripoff, offered poor quality health care, and so on.
well, he was right, of course, but that wasn't because your hospital lacked union representation. I don't think there are any hospitals that are well-managed and offering quality health care any more.
Now if Gettlefinger of the UAW would drop dead, I could throw a party.
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2010, 07:56:30 AM
Large unions are as fucked up as large businesses or large government. It is a facet of human nature that appears to be unavoidable as soon as you have bureaucracies making decisions, as the only people who get to be, or want to be, middle-level managers (of any of the three) are the kinds of morons who couldn't take a dump without written procedures.
There are no written procedures anymore. Telecommunications tech has completely destroyed the initiative, drive and ability of what was once a decent profession.
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2010, 07:56:30 AM
Large unions are as fucked up as large businesses or large government. It is a facet of human nature that appears to be unavoidable as soon as you have bureaucracies making decisions, as the only people who get to be, or want to be, middle-level managers (of any of the three) are the kinds of morons who couldn't take a dump without written procedures.
:console: Sorry about your career. The real problem is a system of personal incentives that are misaligned with the incentives of the business at large. Perverse incentives can make even the most talented employees destructive.
Quote from: DGuller on April 13, 2010, 08:59:09 AM
:console: Sorry about your career.
Many people are sorry, like you, that they don't have a career like mine (in precisely the job I want, with near-complete freedom to do it the way I want to do it, very satisfactory compensation, and enthusiastic "customers"), so I feel your pain. :hug:
QuoteThe real problem is a system of personal incentives that are misaligned with the incentives of the business at large. Perverse incentives can make even the most talented employees destructive.
You have it almost right - I think we need to proviso your statement by noting the problem is not one of explicit personal incentives, (though those create their own problems, primarily above the middle management level), but those of implicit incentives. A bureaucrat makes decisions based on the bureaucrats imperatives, not the business ones, and the only person deemed knowledgeable enough to evaluate middle manager performance is the immediate supervisor. So, the key attribute of success for the middle manager is making his/her boss happy, regardless of what that does for/to the business overall.
Get the Popcorn, it's time for Dguller vs Grumbler round 225.
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 13, 2010, 09:13:57 AM
Get the Popcorn, it's time for Dguller vs Grumbler round 225.
:huh: We are in agreement.
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 13, 2010, 09:13:57 AM
Get the Popcorn, it's time for Dguller vs Grumbler round 225.
Jack Johnson vs. James J. Jeffries was better.
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2010, 09:07:56 AM
Many people are sorry, like you, that they don't have a career like mine (in precisely the job I want, with near-complete freedom to do it the way I want to do it, very satisfactory compensation, and enthusiastic "customers"), so I feel your pain. :hug:
For the record, I love my job, even if you include the exams part. But, beside that, my general observation is that people who automatically rag on the middle managers because they're middle managers tend to not be the superstars. Everyone rags on the managers a little bit, it's just a workplace tradition, but beyond that it's a symptom. Maybe you're just one of those mavericks who finds a niche, and for whom management can only be an impediment, and that's what colors your view.
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 13, 2010, 09:13:57 AM
Get the Popcorn, it's time for Dguller vs Grumbler round 225.
Unlikely. For one, my WE is still in teens from the last one.
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2010, 09:15:27 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 13, 2010, 09:13:57 AM
Get the Popcorn, it's time for Dguller vs Grumbler round 225.
:huh: We are in agreement.
You are? Are you really sure?
Quote from: DGuller on April 13, 2010, 09:17:38 AM
For the record, I love my job, even if you include the exams part. But, beside that, my general observation is that people who automatically rag on the middle managers because they're middle managers tend to not be the superstars.
Good thing no one is doing that, then. :cool:
QuoteEveryone rags on the managers a little bit, it's just a workplace tradition, but beyond that it's a symptom. Maybe you're just one of those mavericks who finds a niche, and for whom management can only be an impediment, and that's what colors your view.
It could also be that you have no clue whatsoever about what kind of person I am or what colors my view. The smart person focuses on the content of the post rather than engaging in ignorant speculation about the motives of the poster.
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 13, 2010, 09:27:30 AM
You are? Are you really sure?
Yep. For the most part, anyway. We disagree about the utility of DG making up shit about what must motivate me, but nobody takes his petty "speculation" seriously anyway, so it doesn't matter that we disagree there.
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2010, 09:43:36 AM
It could also be that you have no clue whatsoever about what kind of person I am or what colors my view. The smart person focuses on the content of the post rather than engaging in ignorant speculation about the motives of the poster.
Well, I'm not merely a smart person, I'm also an intellectually curious person. Seeing certain content makes me wonder about factors that bring such content about. Some content is really only interesting based on what it reveals about the originator of the content.
You expressed your belief that everyone who is a middle manager, or aspires to be one, is a moron. Obviously content such as this is worthless by itself, since it's just a cartoonishly moronic statement. The interesting stuff is all about the reasons why someone would post such a bitterly jaded comment.
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2010, 07:58:46 AM
well, he was right, of course, but that wasn't because your hospital lacked union representation. I don't think there are any hospitals that are well-managed and offering quality health care any more.
There is the argument that it's very difficult to offer quality health care any more given the out of control costs. That's at least the argument that Paul (the CEO of that medical center) used to make and I presume continues to make.
Quote from: DGuller on April 13, 2010, 10:01:19 AM
Well, I'm not merely a smart person, I'm also an intellectually curious person. Seeing certain content makes me wonder about factors that bring such content about. Some content is really only interesting based on what it reveals about the originator of the content.
Self-proclaimed genius is not genius at all. Truly smart people know they need not proclaim their intelligence.
QuoteYou expressed your belief that everyone who is a middle manager, or aspires to be one, is a moron.
No, I didn't. That is your contention, not mine.
QuoteObviously content such as this is worthless by itself, since it's just a cartoonishly moronic statement. The interesting stuff is all about the reasons why someone would post such a bitterly jaded comment.
Precisely - and since you are the one uttering it, you can explain yourself.
All of this has nothing to do with me.
Quote from: Caliga on April 13, 2010, 10:51:53 AM
There is the argument that it's very difficult to offer quality health care any more given the out of control costs. That's at least the argument that Paul (the CEO of that medical center) used to make and I presume continues to make.
He and I agree, then. We would also agree, presumably, that this has little or nothing to do with unions.
My fault, I missed the qualifier about you referring only to the middle managers of the three big entities in question. :blush:
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2010, 11:24:59 AM
He and I agree, then. We would also agree, presumably, that this has little or nothing to do with unions.
Fair enough... but then would you also agree that it's puzzling that the SEIU took out attack ads bashing the medical center for that very thing?
Quote from: Caliga on April 13, 2010, 11:41:25 AM
Fair enough... but then would you also agree that it's puzzling that the SEIU took out attack ads bashing the medical center for that very thing?
It seems to me fairly obvious why they would do so.... self-interest. I don't think the SEIU cares about medical quality
per se. It is one of the biggest bureaucracies out there, and so one would expect its decision-making to be almost entirely bureaucratic..
QuoteWell, I'm not merely a smart person, I'm also an intellectually curious person
Humble also.
How centralized is the SEIU organization anyway? They certainly made some strategic mistakes sending heavies to town hall meetings and such recently. I'd rather think those bad pr effects were more the result of over-zealous local idiots than orders coming from the top to do things that would obviously backfire on them.
Quote from: Caliga on April 13, 2010, 07:19:40 AM
His goons spent years trying to organize the medical center I worked at in Boston. He himself came up several times but I never saw him or anything.
They basically ruined Yale's medical center a few years before, so when we heard they were coming to town we were: less than pleased. They made all of management take a bunch of classes to learn how to deal with union organizers and what to say/not to say to them. I used to see those pricks walking around annoying people, including a chick that worked for me at one point. Fortunately, she was anti-union so I did not need to fire her. :)
I don't know if they were ultimately successful or not as I left to move down here, but as of the time of my relocation they had not succeeded yet.
Reduce your ability to push people around. I understand. It is the natural desire of all people to discharge their will onto others. That's why so many people hate big corporations, unions, and government. The idea that someone could step in and prevent them must be so emasculating.
IIRC Stern was featured in some of the attack ads, so one assumes he approved of the approach, at least insofar as their efforts to organize Boston's hospital workers go.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 13, 2010, 01:36:29 PM
How centralized is the SEIU organization anyway? They certainly made some strategic mistakes sending heavies to town hall meetings and such recently. I'd rather think those bad pr effects were more the result of over-zealous local idiots than orders coming from the top to do things that would obviously backfire on them.
Again, though, that speaks to bureaucratic decision-making. Why would locals do things that hurt themselves? Because they think their boss wants that, and they would rather please the boss than serve the nominal interests of the organization, because their boss has such a major say in their promotion.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 13, 2010, 01:34:20 PM
QuoteWell, I'm not merely a smart person, I'm also an intellectually curious person
Humble also.
Be honest, what can humility afford you?
Quote from: garbon on April 13, 2010, 02:19:31 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 13, 2010, 01:34:20 PM
QuoteWell, I'm not merely a smart person, I'm also an intellectually curious person
Humble also.
Be honest, what can humility afford you?
In Soviet Russia, humility can afford you!
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 01:44:23 PM
Reduce your ability to push people around. I understand. It is the natural desire of all people to discharge their will onto others. That's why so many people hate big corporations, unions, and government. The idea that someone could step in and prevent them must be so emasculating.
With all due respect, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :)
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 13, 2010, 01:34:20 PM
QuoteWell, I'm not merely a smart person, I'm also an intellectually curious person
Humble also.
I'm indeed very humble. If I weren't humble, I wouldn't be describing myself as merely smart.
Quote from: Caliga on April 13, 2010, 03:23:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 01:44:23 PM
Reduce your ability to push people around. I understand. It is the natural desire of all people to discharge their will onto others. That's why so many people hate big corporations, unions, and government. The idea that someone could step in and prevent them must be so emasculating.
With all due respect, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :)
Really? You already expressed a desire to fire someone because they displeased you and then displayed sorrow that you didn't have the power to do so.
Quote from: DGuller on April 13, 2010, 03:27:00 PM
I'm indeed very humble. If I weren't humble, I wouldn't be describing myself as merely smart.
Perhaps gifted but certainly not talented.
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2010, 03:20:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 13, 2010, 02:19:31 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 13, 2010, 01:34:20 PM
QuoteWell, I'm not merely a smart person, I'm also an intellectually curious person
Humble also.
Be honest, what can humility afford you?
In Soviet Russia, humility can afford you!
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fiusbvision.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F07%2Fyakov-smirnoff.jpg&hash=fe0fb7f12ab6d8fe8d058138ed863b1f6f4977f6)
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2010, 02:14:51 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 13, 2010, 01:36:29 PM
How centralized is the SEIU organization anyway? They certainly made some strategic mistakes sending heavies to town hall meetings and such recently. I'd rather think those bad pr effects were more the result of over-zealous local idiots than orders coming from the top to do things that would obviously backfire on them.
Again, though, that speaks to bureaucratic decision-making. Why would locals do things that hurt themselves? Because they think their boss wants that, and they would rather please the boss than serve the nominal interests of the organization, because their boss has such a major say in their promotion.
And this is compounded by the fact that now their bosses make every major decision for them. Discretion is a thing of the past for them.
Quote from: Neil on April 13, 2010, 05:24:33 PM
And this is compounded by the fact that now their bosses make every major decision for them. Discretion is a thing of the past for them.
That's pretty much the nature of bureaucratic thinking. :(
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 03:35:38 PM
Really? You already expressed a desire to fire someone because they displeased you and then displayed sorrow that you didn't have the power to do so.
I was joking. She was a great employee, and had I really wanted to I could have fired her, I guess, but she never gave me any reason to do so.
It's certainly true that unions make it more difficult to fire people, getting back to your earlier point. Where I would differ is whether or not that's a bad thing.
Quote from: Caliga on April 14, 2010, 05:03:31 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 03:35:38 PM
Really? You already expressed a desire to fire someone because they displeased you and then displayed sorrow that you didn't have the power to do so.
I was joking. She was a great employee, and had I really wanted to I could have fired her, I guess, but she never gave me any reason to do so.
It's certainly true that unions make it more difficult to fire people, getting back to your earlier point. Where I would differ is whether or not that's a bad thing.
Varies I guess. Took years to get rid of a useless boozehound (he'd get drunk in the parking lot during lunch) who never did any work. In the end he got early retirement instead of the termination he deserved.
On the other hand they almost certainly do offer some protection or at least arbitration to those who don't get along with their bosses and are unfairly fired or punished.
Lightning shoots from my fingertips.
Quote from: DGuller on April 13, 2010, 03:27:00 PM
I'm indeed very delusional. If I weren't delusional, I wouldn't be describing myself as smart.
Fixed your post.
Your humorless passive-aggressive sniping is getting to be a little annoying, dps.
It's funny to see Brainiac completely miss the joke. :lol:
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 10:00:14 AM
It's funny to see Brainiac completely miss the joke. :lol:
Spelling out the hidden implication in a self-deprecating comment is not a joke, not a good one anyway. In fact it's a sign of failing to get the joke. I also took into account the history of the poster, which when it comes it me basically consists of continuously taking potshots.
Quote from: DGuller on April 14, 2010, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 10:00:14 AM
It's funny to see Brainiac completely miss the joke. :lol:
Spelling out the hidden implication in a self-deprecating comment is not a joke, not a good one anyway. In fact it's a sign of failing to get the joke. I also took into account the history of the poster, which when it comes it me basically consists of continuously taking potshots.
Meh, I've only taken shots at you since you started acting like a douche about 6 months ago.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I'm also not sure I care all that much.
Quote from: dps on April 14, 2010, 03:07:39 PM
you started acting like a douche about 6 months ago.
:XD:
Quote from: garbon on April 16, 2010, 06:46:35 PM
Quote from: dps on April 14, 2010, 03:07:39 PM
you started acting like a douche about 6 months ago.
:XD:
Nobody would accuse dps of being the most acute thinker on the board. Six months ago? Try "since day one." :lmfao:
You're really wearing out the :lmfao: smiley. It kind of makes you look either obnoxious or unstable (granted, it's merely a contributing factor in either case, but still). I'm forced to just use the :lol: smiley most of the time due to the taint involved with the :lmfao:. :(
Quote from: DGuller on April 16, 2010, 09:39:42 PM
You're really wearing out the :lmfao: smiley. It kind of makes you look either obnoxious or unstable (granted, it's merely a contributing factor in either case, but still). I'm forced to just use the :lol: smiley most of the time due to the taint involved with the :lmfao:. :(
You are right. It is all about me, unless it is making claims to expert status based on membership in college clubs, or else claims of being smart, in which case it is all about you! :lmfao:
I once got a lecture on the proper use of emoticons. I'll be the emoticon expert. :smarty: