http://www.scb.se/statistik/_publikationer/LE0105_2009A01_BR_BE57BR0901.pdf
Report is in Swedish, so most of you won't get much out of it.
I'm just getting a bit flustered about this whole situation so I guess I can come off as a bit repetitive at times.
Bear with me.
This report states that out of "foreign born" IE immigrants, employment numbers are up to an astonishing 56% of men, and 44% of women after they've been 5 years in country.
Sounds like great news, right?
All the doom preaching was just silly racism.
This clearly proves that the third worlders we've been importing the last decades are the lottery winnings and pension savers they've been heralded as.
Just a second.
Go to page 92 of the report and find the definition used for "Employed".
"Anyone who has worked an average of at least one hour per week in November"
And you wonder what I'm complaining about?
Yes, part-timers get counted in employment statistics. This is news to you? :huh:
So what's the margin employed between 1 and 12 hours (the usual minimum line for part-time wage employment in the US), or is that data available?
Who fucking cares, Wyoming won.
Massive immigration is a reality of the 21st century. I think you should just accept it, along with all the other things you may not like about life such as getting older etc.
Though in fact, instead of feeling victimized by immigration trends, why don't you take advantage of it yourself and move to Thailand? ;)
Does it separate Western immigrants and non-Western immigrants like Norwegian statistics?
Cause if you include all those danes and norwegian living in sweden but working at home do they count as employed? Then there are all the Icelandic refugees working in scandinavia along with all the "normal" europeans and scandinavians living and working in sweden.
I'm not trying to fuck up your rant by providing arguments for and against it.. I just think you did a bit too much ranting and not enough informing before starting the rant.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 19, 2009, 09:08:51 PM
Yes, part-timers get counted in employment statistics. This is news to you? :huh:
When it's enough to part-time ON AVERAGE ONE HOUR PER WEEK to count as employed and they still only manage to reach 50% is a fucking atrocity.
Quote from: Viking on December 19, 2009, 10:14:22 PM
Does it separate Western immigrants and non-Western immigrants like Norwegian statistics?
Cause if you include all those danes and norwegian living in sweden but working at home do they count as employed? Then there are all the Icelandic refugees working in scandinavia along with all the "normal" europeans and scandinavians living and working in sweden.
I'm not trying to fuck up your rant by providing arguments for and against it.. I just think you did a bit too much ranting and not enough informing before starting the rant.
Yes, they do and there the numbers become even worse.
Somalis: 10 years, 35%
Irakis: 10 years, 47%
Norwegians: 10 years, 73% (Here I'm not sure whether they count them as unemployed if they're working across the border though.)
This report is unusually candid, but of course they fully expect no one to actually read it, and the journalists providing the abbreviated version naturally chose to push it as an improvement.
And just how many people do you think are working one or two hours a week? As silly as that low a threshhold may sound, I doubt it has much impact on the numbers.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 20, 2009, 04:31:04 AM
And just how many people do you think are working one or two hours a week?
:blush:
Quote from: Slargos on December 19, 2009, 08:27:18 PM
http://www.scb.se/statistik/_publikationer/LE0105_2009A01_BR_BE57BR0901.pdf
Report is in Swedish, so most of you won't get much out of it.
I'm just getting a bit flustered about this whole situation so I guess I can come off as a bit repetitive at times.
Bear with me.
This report states that out of "foreign born" IE immigrants, employment numbers are up to an astonishing 56% of men, and 44% of women after they've been 5 years in country.
Sounds like great news, right?
All the doom preaching was just silly racism.
This clearly proves that the third worlders we've been importing the last decades are the lottery winnings and pension savers they've been heralded as.
Just a second.
Go to page 92 of the report and find the definition used for "Employed".
"Anyone who has worked an average of at least one hour per week in November"
And you wonder what I'm complaining about?
This really depends on how "employment" in general is statistically accounted for, e.g. for the purpose of unemployment benefits and statistics. This would be a cause for outrage only if methodologies in both cases were completely different.
Why are you taking in Iraqis and Somalis? There are probably millions of hardworking, law-abiding, and skilled Chinese workers who will do anything for a chance to live and work in Sweden.
Keep your Chinese blight out of Europe, kthxbye.
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2009, 06:49:36 AM
Keep your Chinese blight out of Europe, kthxbye.
Oh yeah they're willing to work for crap wages and inhuman hours too :P
Quote from: Monoriu on December 20, 2009, 06:51:15 AM
Oh yeah they're willing to work for crap wages and inhuman hours too :P
Only for one generation.
Quote from: Monoriu on December 20, 2009, 06:51:15 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2009, 06:49:36 AM
Keep your Chinese blight out of Europe, kthxbye.
Oh yeah they're willing to work for crap wages and inhuman hours too :P
I can vouch for that. On my street there's a small shop where dozens are stuffed for hours on end with virtually no ventilation (must be awesome during our 35+ º C summers).
Quote from: Iormlund on December 20, 2009, 07:06:33 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 20, 2009, 06:51:15 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2009, 06:49:36 AM
Keep your Chinese blight out of Europe, kthxbye.
Oh yeah they're willing to work for crap wages and inhuman hours too :P
I can vouch for that. On my street there's a small shop where dozens are stuffed for hours on end with virtually no ventilation (must be awesome during our 35+ º C summers).
How much are they?
Quote from: Monoriu on December 20, 2009, 06:49:02 AM
Why are you taking in Iraqis and Somalis? There are probably millions of hardworking, law-abiding, and skilled Chinese workers who will do anything for a chance to live and work in Sweden.
An excellent question.
I can only speculate as to the answer, and I know better than to speculate here.
There are, in fact, plenty of well adjusted immigrants in Sweden, and it would certainly be better to give them the opportunity than to import another batch of a few tens of thousands of completely worthless somalis.
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2009, 06:33:25 AM
This really depends on how "employment" in general is statistically accounted for, e.g. for the purpose of unemployment benefits and statistics. This would be a cause for outrage only if methodologies in both cases were completely different.
This is an internal report, and as such doesn't have to follow EU regulations on how these statistics are gathered.
Sweden did get a reprimand for trimming the data when unemployment figures were reported to the EU.
:lmfao:
Hilarious how you're painting this as the immigrant's fault.
I recommend you go over to http://www.thelocal.se/ sometime and check out the forum there. You have a bunch of Brits, Americans, etc... who've moved to Sweden for some reason or other (usually a woman/man) and a recurring topic of conversation there is the horrendous job situation for foreigners in Sweden.
You get people with masters degrees who can't even get a job scrubbing toilets.
Immigrants want to work. Swedish unemployment rates are too fucked up for everyone though so priority goes to the Swedes. There really is a massive bias towards Swedes, it goes beyond even them just being the ones who will speak the language best, there've been studies that show applying for a job with a foreign sounding name gets you less replies than as Johan Svenson.
Over the past year and a half I'd have killed for a job in Sweden. Nothing going though.
Mono's law abiding Chinese are particularly in the crap due to the job situation. They come over in droves to leech off the education system (free uni ftw) expecting to be able to get a crappy little job somewhere to support themselves as students can anywhere else....nope.
They end up living 3 to a small student room scavenging for cans and struggling to find enough öre to meet the rent at the end of the month. They end up working in the nations for 10 euros max for a 8 hour shift. True its their fault for not checking things were so bad first but still; ouch.
So the fact that twice as many Yugos have jobs as Somalis is all the fault of the racist swedish system.
The point isn't necessarily that the darkies are lazy ne'erdowells (though plenty of them are) it's that the immigration craze is heralded as a necessity in order to secure enough manpower for jobs that don't exist.
The nuclear industry needs lots and lots of people. Few Somalis seem to work at the Swedish nuclear sites though.
QuoteThe nuclear industry needs lots and lots of people. Few Somalis seem to work at the Swedish nuclear sites though.
That pretty much seems to be the only way to get a job here- have some very specific, very high end skill....Of the sort which would yet you walk into a better job anywhere else in the developed world.
Quote from: Slargos on December 20, 2009, 09:02:19 AM
So the fact that twice as many Yugos have jobs as Somalis is all the fault of the racist swedish system.
The point isn't necessarily that the darkies are lazy ne'erdowells (though plenty of them are) it's that the immigration craze is heralded as a necessity in order to secure enough manpower for jobs that don't exist.
They've been here longer.
Compare Yugos to Chileans (thats who it was who came in the 70s right?...something latin american anyway) and the numbers would likely be against them.
Quote from: The Brain on December 20, 2009, 09:03:45 AM
The nuclear industry needs lots and lots of people. Few Somalis seem to work at the Swedish nuclear sites though.
Sweden should export more nuclear energy to the Middle East. Preferably transported by warheads.
Somehow I doubt the problem with Somalis compared to Yugos and Chinks is too many masters degrees
Quote from: Slargos on December 20, 2009, 08:03:38 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 20, 2009, 06:49:02 AM
Why are you taking in Iraqis and Somalis? There are probably millions of hardworking, law-abiding, and skilled Chinese workers who will do anything for a chance to live and work in Sweden.
An excellent question.
I can only speculate as to the answer, and I know better than to speculate here.
There are, in fact, plenty of well adjusted immigrants in Sweden, and it would certainly be better to give them the opportunity than to import another batch of a few tens of thousands of completely worthless somalis.
I saw Vancouver was listed third in the world after Zürich and Geneva in one of these "nice cities"-rankings. And apparently a majority of Vancouvers population is born outside Canada (IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong). Which shows you can get immigration to work very well, even in the first generation, as long as you take in the right immigrants.
Quote from: Tyr on December 20, 2009, 08:39:32 AM
:lmfao:
Hilarious how you're painting this as the immigrant's fault.
I recommend you go over to http://www.thelocal.se/ sometime and check out the forum there. You have a bunch of Brits, Americans, etc... who've moved to Sweden for some reason or other (usually a woman/man) and a recurring topic of conversation there is the horrendous job situation for foreigners in Sweden.
You get people with masters degrees who can't even get a job scrubbing toilets.
Immigrants want to work. Swedish unemployment rates are too fucked up for everyone though so priority goes to the Swedes. There really is a massive bias towards Swedes, it goes beyond even them just being the ones who will speak the language best, there've been studies that show applying for a job with a foreign sounding name gets you less replies than as Johan Svenson.
Over the past year and a half I'd have killed for a job in Sweden. Nothing going though.
Mono's law abiding Chinese are particularly in the crap due to the job situation. They come over in droves to leech off the education system (free uni ftw) expecting to be able to get a crappy little job somewhere to support themselves as students can anywhere else....nope.
They end up living 3 to a small student room scavenging for cans and struggling to find enough öre to meet the rent at the end of the month. They end up working in the nations for 10 euros max for a 8 hour shift. True its their fault for not checking things were so bad first but still; ouch.
Well you also have people at The Local who say they don't see any reason to learn the language because all Swedes know english anyway. Well, we might know good English but it's still our second language and we don't master it nearly as well as our mother tongue. Unless the daily dealings at the place of work are conducted in english you're going to be severely disadvantaged if you don't speak the language. Because you can not expect the langauge of daily dealings to be changed or people translating everything for you all the time.
I don't know where you're getting this "massive bias towards Swedes" from - that's simply not true. If you speak the language and you have an anglophone name, you're not going to be biased against. Quite the opposite, I think; people would see a native english speaker as an asset. Swedes are always careful when employing, even when employing other Swedes. It's a consequence of our rigorous labour laws. Employers have many obligations towards their employees, and it is difficult to fire people without good cause. Very few jobs are filled through the employment agency. Most employers are going to look to their extended network of friends, friends of friends and relatives to fill the position with someone they know they can trust. Only if they can't find anyone this way, they'll go to the open work market, and if you don't speak the language, you're going to be competing at a disadvantage.
But if you speak the language, there's no reason why you'd be biased against.
Quote from: Pat on December 20, 2009, 10:07:02 AM
Well you also have people at The Local who say they don't see any reason to learn the language because all Swedes know english anyway. Well, we might know good English but it's still our second language and we don't master it nearly as well as our mother tongue. Unless the daily dealings at the place of work are conducted in english you're going to be severely disadvantaged if you don't speak the language. Because you can not expect the langauge of daily dealings to be changed or people translating everything for you all the time.
That is one thread which has a lot of discussion right now started by one Norwegian guy. And a lot of the replies are people slamming him.
You far more often see people moaning about their lessons going badly and how they really wish they could speak Swedish.
Quote from: Tyr on December 20, 2009, 10:15:23 AM
That is one thread which has a lot of discussion right now started by one Norwegian guy. And a lot of the replies are people slamming him.
You far more often see people moaning about their lessons going badly and how they really wish they could speak Swedish.
I know, Slargos lived in Norway for about 4 years and managed to not learn the language.
Quote from: Viking on December 20, 2009, 10:22:15 AM
Quote from: Tyr on December 20, 2009, 10:15:23 AM
That is one thread which has a lot of discussion right now started by one Norwegian guy. And a lot of the replies are people slamming him.
You far more often see people moaning about their lessons going badly and how they really wish they could speak Swedish.
I know, Slargos lived in Norway for about 4 years and managed to not learn the language.
If you count my on-again-off-again tours, it's actually closer to 7.
And I did learn it, just not very well. :P
Quote from: Tyr on December 20, 2009, 10:15:23 AM
Quote from: Pat on December 20, 2009, 10:07:02 AM
Well you also have people at The Local who say they don't see any reason to learn the language because all Swedes know english anyway. Well, we might know good English but it's still our second language and we don't master it nearly as well as our mother tongue. Unless the daily dealings at the place of work are conducted in english you're going to be severely disadvantaged if you don't speak the language. Because you can not expect the langauge of daily dealings to be changed or people translating everything for you all the time.
That is one thread which has a lot of discussion right now started by one Norwegian guy. And a lot of the replies are people slamming him.
You far more often see people moaning about their lessons going badly and how they really wish they could speak Swedish.
I understood him to be an American who'd lived in Norway and learnt some Norwegian ("Hispanics don't learn English in Florida, why'd I have to learn Swedish in Sweden?" ;)). But yeah I don't really doubt most anglophone immigrants who come to live here permanently will want to adjust and at least try to learn the language. And once they've learned Swedish I don't think they'll have a problem finding a job, even if their Swedish is less than perfect (an anglophone immigrant would be cut some more slack in this regard than immigrants from elsewhere since the gaps can easily be filled in with English, and most Swedes would appreciate a native english-speaker making an effort of learning the language (even if a Swede can not always be depended on to
tell you that he appreciates it))
Quote from: Pat on December 20, 2009, 09:27:21 AM
Quote from: Slargos on December 20, 2009, 08:03:38 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 20, 2009, 06:49:02 AM
Why are you taking in Iraqis and Somalis? There are probably millions of hardworking, law-abiding, and skilled Chinese workers who will do anything for a chance to live and work in Sweden.
An excellent question.
I can only speculate as to the answer, and I know better than to speculate here.
There are, in fact, plenty of well adjusted immigrants in Sweden, and it would certainly be better to give them the opportunity than to import another batch of a few tens of thousands of completely worthless somalis.
I saw Vancouver was listed third in the world after Zürich and Geneva in one of these "nice cities"-rankings. And apparently a majority of Vancouvers population is born outside Canada (IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong). Which shows you can get immigration to work very well, even in the first generation, as long as you take in the right immigrants.
I had a lecture in which Vancouver was mentioned. I really don't get how Vancouver can be up there. It has a massive homelessness problem apparently (can't remember the statistics though).