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QuoteDEVELOPING: A mass shooting at Ft. Hood military post in Texas has left at least 7 dead and 20 wounded and one suspected gunman is on the loose, officials told Fox News.

A massive manhunt was under way for the suspect at large, Fox News confirmed. One person was in custody. The New York Post said that there were two shooters at the Army post massacre; other reports said there were three.

The attack apparently happened at Ft. Hood's Soldier Readiness Center. Army officials didn't know whether the victims were civilians or military personnel.

Other media reports said the number of victims remained unclear.

The men were reportedly dressed in Army fatigues, but military officials couldn't confirm that they were Army personnel.

The base and area schools were on lockdown after the mass shooting, and all those on the Army post were asked to gather for a head count.

The FBI was en route to Ft. Hood to provide assistance.

There have been several previous deadly incidents at Ft. Hood, including a shooting of one soldier by another at a party in July; a rape and fatal shooting of an Army medic at her apartment near the post 11 years ago; and the murder-suicide of a lieutenant by a soldier in September 2008.

Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2009, 05:16:05 PM
I think it's time to pull out from Fort Hood.

QuoteOfficials: 11 killed, plus gunman, in Fort Hood shootingsNovember 5, 2009 5:38 p.m. EST
(CNN) -- Eleven people plus a gunman were dead and 31 wounded after the gunman opened fire Thursday on a soldier-processing center at Fort Hood, Texas, officials said.

The gunman was a soldier, and two other soldiers have been detained as suspects, Army Lt. Gen. Bob Cone said.

The slain gunman was Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan, according to a law enforcement source. The source believes he is 39 or 40 years old.

Ten of the other dead also were soldiers, while the remaining one was a civilian police officer who was working as a contractor on the base, Cone said.

Two of the injured were in "very serious" condition, Fort Hood spokesman Christopher Hogue said.

Watch developments live

More than one shooter may have been involved, Cone said.

"All the casualties took place at the initial incident, that took place at 13:30 [1:30 p.m. CT], at the soldier readiness facility," Cone said.


The primary shooter had two weapons, both handguns, he said.

"The local police response forces were there relatively quickly and killed the confirmed shooter," Cone said.

President Obama called the shootings "tragic" and "a horrific outburst of violence." He expressed his condolences for the shooting victims.

"These are men and women who have made the selfless and courageous decision to risk, and at times give, their lives to protect the rest of us on a daily basis," Obama said. "It's difficult enough when we lose these brave Americans in battles overseas. It is horrifying that they should come under fire at an Army base on American soil."

Officials at Fort Hood, which is the Army's largest U.S. post, were asking people there to stay away from windows, CNN affiliate KXXV said. The incident took place at the sports dome, now known as the soldier readiness area, the station reported.

A congressional aide said he was on the post to attend a graduation service when he saw a soldier with blood on his uniform near the building where the service was being held, the Austin American-Statesman reported.

Greg Schannep, an aide to U.S. Rep. John Carter, said the soldier ran past him and said a man was shooting. He said the soldier appeared to be injured in a shoulder, the American-Statesman reported.

FBI agents are headed to the scene to assist, said Erik Vasys, spokesman for the FBI office in San Antonio. He had no other details.

On the Fort Hood Web site, the word "closed" is posted with the statement, "Effective immediately, Fort Hood is closed. Organizations/units are instructed to execute a 100 percent accountability of all personnel."

Fort Hood, with about 40,000 troops, is home to the Army's 1st Cavalry Division and elements of the 4th Infantry Division, as well as the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment and the 13th Corps Support Command. It is located near Killeen, Texas.

At least 25,000 people are at Fort Hood on any given day, an Army spokesman at the Pentagon said.

Fort Hood is home to the Warrior Combat Stress Reset Program, which is designed to help soldiers overcome combat stress issues.

In June, Fort Hood's commander, Lt. Gen. Rick Lynch, told CNN that he was trying to ease the kind of stresses soldiers face. He has pushed for soldiers working a day schedule to return home for dinner by 6 p.m., and required his personal authorization for anyone working weekends. At the time, two soldiers stationed there had committed suicide in 2009 -- a rate well below those of other posts.

Quote from: Kleves on November 05, 2009, 05:52:25 PM
One of the shooters was a Muslim army major.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2009, 06:34:58 PM

Quote from: Kleves on November 05, 2009, 05:52:25 PM
One of the shooters was a Muslim army major.

Could've told you that.

One gunman: PTSD.  More than one: Muslim bullshit.

Quote from: Kleves on November 05, 2009, 06:38:25 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2009, 06:34:58 PM

Quote from: Kleves on November 05, 2009, 05:52:25 PM
One of the shooters was a Muslim army major.

Could've told you that.

One gunman: PTSD.  More than one: Muslim bullshit.

You'd hope that they would screen out the crazies before they got to major.

Quote from: Kleves on November 05, 2009, 06:38:25 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2009, 06:34:58 PM

Quote from: Kleves on November 05, 2009, 05:52:25 PM
One of the shooters was a Muslim army major.

Could've told you that.

One gunman: PTSD.  More than one: Muslim bullshit.

You'd hope that they would screen out the crazies before they got to major.

QuoteThe slain gunman was identified as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, a law enforcement source told CNN. Licensed in Virginia, Hasan was a psychiatrist who previously worked at Walter Reed Army Medical Center but more recently was practicing at Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, according to professional records.

Quote from: FunkMonk on November 05, 2009, 06:40:21 PM
Yet another casualty list to look over to see if any of my army pals are on it.  :(

Quote from: grumbler on November 05, 2009, 06:56:36 PM
I think that the Army's renaming of commonly-known facilities like the base gym to weird Orwellian names like "Soldier Readiness Center" is clearly an attempt to break the minds of its personnel.  It is ironic that one of the perps was the first to snap, but mark my words:  this is just the beginning.  I suspect the next guy to snap will do so at the Unaccompanied Enlisted Personnel Housing Facility.

The Navy tried this years ago.  It was ugly.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 05, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
On CNN they scanned over a sign that said something like "Ft. Hood Warrior Attitude Reset Center."

:huh:

Does that mean the shrinks office?

Quote
(CBS/ AP)   Officials say a shooting suspect at Fort Hood has been identified as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who they say was an Army mental health professional.

A law enforcement official said Hasan, believed to be in his late 30s, was killed after opening fire at the base. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly.

A source tells the CBS News investigates team that Hasan is a licensed psychiatrist in Bethesda, Md. He is a drug and rehab specialist who got his Virginia psychiatry license July 12, 2005.

It was not known whether he was treating people at the base.

A possible motive was unclear.

However, a source told AP that Hasan got a poor performance evaluation for Army hospital work.

Austin's Statesman.com reports that Jeff Sadosky, a spokesman for U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, said the senator had been told that Hasan was upset about his upcoming deployment to Iraq.

Officials says it was not clear what Hasan's religion was, but investigators are trying to determine if Hasan was his birth name or if he may have changed his name and converted to the Islamic faith at some point.

According to the Army Times, Hasan was promoted to Major, medical corps on April 22, 2009.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 05, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
On CNN they scanned over a sign that said something like "Ft. Hood Warrior Attitude Reset Center."

:huh:

Does that mean the shrinks office?

Quote from: FunkMonk on November 05, 2009, 07:36:55 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 05, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
On CNN they scanned over a sign that said something like "Ft. Hood Warrior Attitude Reset Center."

:huh:

Does that mean the shrinks office?

The word 'warrior' is en vogue in the army since the wars started. At my old posting there is a "Warrior Transition Unit", composed entirely of personnel who are medically unfit to serve in their units.

Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2009, 06:46:00 PM

QuoteThe slain gunman was identified as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, a law enforcement source told CNN. Licensed in Virginia, Hasan was a psychiatrist who previously worked at Walter Reed Army Medical Center but more recently was practicing at Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, according to professional records.

There you go.  He was a shrink so... definitely crazy. :yes:

Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2009, 09:05:58 PM
God Warrior?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns)

Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2009, 09:38:43 PM
CNN is now reporting that the gunman is still alive  :huh:

Quote from: dps on November 05, 2009, 09:43:55 PM

Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2009, 09:38:43 PM
CNN is now reporting that the gunman is still alive  :huh:

Guess he got better after they killed him.

Quote from: dps on November 05, 2009, 09:43:55 PM

Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2009, 09:38:43 PM
CNN is now reporting that the gunman is still alive  :huh:

Guess he got better after they killed him.

Quote from: Viking on November 06, 2009, 12:07:42 AM
Any more clear info about whether this is somebody "going postal" or if this is an example of Daniel Pipes' "sudden jihad syndrome"? Or something else.

Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2009, 09:05:58 PM
God Warrior?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns)

Quote from: Queequeg on November 06, 2009, 01:10:14 AM

Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2009, 09:05:58 PM
God Warrior?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns)

Dark sided?

Is her congregation some kind of syncretic Jedi-Christian faith?

Quote from: Jaron on November 06, 2009, 12:26:58 AM
Life in the Hood is never easy.

Quote from: Tonitrus on November 05, 2009, 08:57:41 PM
The AF is big on this "warrior" thing too.  Alas.

Quote from: Jaron on November 06, 2009, 12:26:58 AM
Life in the Hood is never easy.

Quote from: Martinus on November 06, 2009, 03:11:54 AM
So, apparently the guy was a Muslim convert shrink who got bad performance ratings, was vocally opposed to American interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan (apparently he often fought with his fellow soldiers about that), and was told he will be sent to Afghanistan?

:lol:

Thank God he wasn't gay, though - I mean THEN he would have been a REAL threat to the US military, and would have been discharged faster than he could say "Allahu Akbar. Death to the infidel."

Quote from: Martinus on November 06, 2009, 03:11:54 AM
Thank God he wasn't gay, though - I mean THEN he would have been a REAL threat to the US military, and would have been discharged faster than he could say "Allahu Akbar. Death to the infidel."

Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 06:31:18 AM
"I wouldn't want that. I like my bed for myself."  :mad:

QuoteSuspect, devout Muslim from Va., wanted Army discharge, aunt said

By Mary Pat Flaherty, William Wan and Christian Davenport
Friday, November 6, 2009

He prayed every day at the Muslim Community Center in Silver Spring, a devout Muslim who, despite asking to be discharged from the U.S. Army, was on the eve of his first deployment to war. Yesterday, authorities said Maj. Nidal M. Hasan, a 39-year-old Arlington-born psychiatrist, shot and killed at least 12 people at Fort Hood, Tex.

In an interview, his aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, said he had endured name-calling and harassment about his Muslim faith for years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and had sought for several years to be discharged from the military.

"I know what that is like," she said. "Some people can take it, and some cannot. He had listened to all of that, and he wanted out of the military, and they would not let him leave even after he offered to repay" for his medical training.

An Army spokesman, Lt. Col. George Wright, said he could not confirm that Hasan requested a discharge.

As authorities scrambled to figure out what happened at Fort Hood, a hazy and contradictory picture emerged of a man who received his medical training from the military and spent his career in the Army, yet allegedly turned so violently against his own. Hasan spent nearly all of his professional life at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in the District, caring for the victims of trauma, yet he spoke openly of his deep opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Hasan, who was shot while being taken into custody, was reported in stable condition at a hospital Thursday night, authorities said.

The Associated Press reported that Hasan attracted the attention of law enforcement authorities in recent months after an Internet posting under the screen name "NidalHasan" compared Islamic suicide bombers to Japanese kamikaze pilots. "To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate," the posting read. "It's more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause."

He steered clear of female colleagues, co-workers said, and despite devout religious practices, listed himself in Army records as having no religious preference.

A longtime Walter Reed colleague who referred patients to psychiatrists said co-workers avoided sending service members to Hasan because of his unusual manner and solitary work habits.

Hasan is a 1997 graduate of Virginia Tech who went on to get a doctorate in psychiatry from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda. From 2003 through last summer, he was an intern, resident and then fellow at Walter Reed, where he worked as a liaison between wounded soldiers and the hospital's psychiatry staff. He was also a fellow at the Center for the Study of Traumatic Stress at the Bethesda military medical school.

He had been affected by the physical and mental injuries he saw while working as a psychiatrist at Walter Reed for nearly eight years, according to his aunt. "He must have snapped," Noel Hasan said. "They ignored him. It was not hard to know when he was upset. He was not a fighter, even as a child and young man. But when he became upset, his face turns red." She said Hasan had consulted with an attorney about getting out of the service.

On the rare occasions when he spoke of his work in any detail, the aunt said, Hasan told her of soldiers wracked by what they had seen. One patient had suffered burns to his face so intense "that his face had nearly melted," she said. "He told us how upsetting that was to him."

Hasan "did not make many friends" and "did not make friends fast," his aunt said. He had no girlfriend and was not married. "He would tell us the military was his life," she said.

The psychiatrist once said that "Muslims should stand up and fight against the aggressor" and that the United States shouldn't be fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place, according to an interview with Col. Terry Lee, a co-worker, on Fox News.

At the Muslim Community Center, Hasan stood out because he would sometimes show up in Army fatigues, said Faizul Khan, the former imam there.

"He came to mosque one or two times to see if there were any suitable girls to marry," Khan said. "I don't think he ever had a match, because he had too many conditions. He wanted a girl who was very religious, prays five times a day."

In search of a partner in marriage, Hasan wrote in an application filed with a local Muslim matching service that "I am quiet and reserved until more familiar with person. Funny, caring and personable."

"He was a very quiet and private person. I can't say that people knew him very well other than attending prayers," said Arshad Qureshi, chairman of the board of trustees at the Muslim Community Center of Silver Spring. "You didn't see him attend anything -- school for children or celebrations. He did not go out of the way to engage people. We have thousands of people who come through to pray; he was just one of them."

A co-worker at Walter Reed said Hasan would not allow his photo to be taken with female co-workers, which became an issue during Christmas season when employees often took group photos. Co-workers would find a solo photo of Hasan and post it on the bulletin board without his permission.

Lee told Fox News that Hasan "was hoping that President Obama would pull troops out. . . . When things weren't going that way, he became more agitated, more frustrated with the conflicts over there. . . . He made his views well known about how he felt about the U.S. involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan."

And when he talked about fighting "the aggressor," he said that his fellow soldiers "should stand up and help the armed forces in Iraq and in Afghanistan," Lee said.

Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) told reporters after a briefing on the shootings that Hasan was born in Virginia to parents who emigrated from Jordan. The congressman said that Hasan "took a lot of advanced training in shooting."

Hasan was polite and respectful, according to 1st Lt. Elizabeth Whiteside, who was treated by the psychiatrist at Walter Reed while recovering from a gunshot wound suffered in Iraq.

Whiteside remembers Hasan as serious. During his initial evaluation of her, she tried to make light when he coughed by saying, "Bless you." Hasan replied that he had coughed and not sneezed.

Hasan was "like my sons," his aunt said, spending holidays and free time at her house. Born at Arlington Hospital, Nidal Hasan graduated from high school in Roanoke, where his parents had moved. He enlisted in the Army after high school and attended Virginia Tech, majoring in biochemistry.

Hasan's parents died about 10 years ago. He had joined the military over their objections, Noel Hasan said. She said he has two brothers, Eyad, a businessman in Sterling, and Anas, a lawyer in Jerusalem.

When Army officials called Eyad Hasan to relay the news from Fort Hood on Thursday, Noel Hasan said, the brother "fainted when he heard it." Initially, she said, Eyad was told his brother was injured and in surgery and later was erroneously told he had died.

Hasan was an avid Redskins fan. "That was his main entertainment," his aunt said. "He was not a movie watcher. He worked hard and had been studying for years. He buried himself in his work."

Noel Hasan was unaware of her nephew's pending deployment. "He didn't call or send an e-mail saying anything like that," she said.

His last e-mail to her, she said, was a little more than a week ago "and it was just, "Hi, Aunt Noel. How are you doing?' "

Quote from: Martinus on November 06, 2009, 06:37:44 AM

Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 06:31:18 AM
"I wouldn't want that. I like my bed for myself."  :mad:

So at least in this respect, much hasn't changed, has there?

*zing* :P

Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2009, 06:53:54 AM
:frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

Quote from: Martinus on November 06, 2009, 06:40:39 AM
He should have told them he sucks cock - that would get him discharged, presto.

Quote from: Berkut on November 06, 2009, 09:25:48 AM
Is there any topic at all that Marty finds interesting outside of it having something to do with being gay?

Anything at all?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone so compulsively obsessed with a single subject.

Quote from: Berkut on November 06, 2009, 09:25:48 AM
I don't think I've ever seen anyone so compulsively obsessed with a single subject.

Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2009, 09:30:45 AM

Quote from: Berkut on November 06, 2009, 09:25:48 AM
I don't think I've ever seen anyone so compulsively obsessed with a single subject.

Hi there!  :)

Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 06:31:18 AM
How does "Don't ask, don't tell" work with counselling, anyways? Are lesbian/gay/bi soldiers allowed to talk about this when in session with a psychiatric or spiritual counsellor?

Mind you, in 1983 a German general was forced to resign over allegations of him being homosexual (though general consensus at the time was that there was no connection between being gay and being a security risk).
Little Syt, 6 or 7 at the time, asked his mom what "homosexual" meant.
"When boys sleep with boys."
"You mean in the same room, like at summer camp?"
"No, in the same bed."
"I wouldn't want that. I like my bed for myself."  :mad:

:blush:

Quote from: Berkut on November 06, 2009, 09:35:09 AM
:lol:

Sorry cal, even you are capable of discussing something without forcibly trying to relate it to boobs, no matter the subject.

Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 09:54:38 AM
I keep telling you, head shrinkers are crazy motherfuckers.

Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2009, 09:55:44 AM

Quote from: Berkut on November 06, 2009, 09:35:09 AM
:lol:

Sorry cal, even you are capable of discussing something without forcibly trying to relate it to boobs, no matter the subject.

Sorry, I promise to try harder.  :Embarrass:

Quote from: FunkMonk on November 05, 2009, 07:21:42 PM
Soldier Readiness Center or "SRC" refers to a place where soldiers process themselves for deployment, i.e. filling out personnel paperwork, making sure wills are filed, and basic medical examinations. I suspect this gym was re-arranged to support a battalion or two at a time for this purpose. We had a similar facility at Fort Stewart; an old gym became the "soldier readiness center", used simply for processing us to go to the fight. Coming back from Iraq, we went through the same facility.

QuoteYou are broadly correct, though. The Army does have a habit of changing language to suit its needs. The words 'Soldier' and 'Family' are capitalized in any official army document, for instance.

Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2009, 09:44:01 AM

My conversation went something like this:

"Mom, what is a homosexual?"
"Shh, don't say that word.  Those are very, very bad people."

Quote from: alfred russel on November 06, 2009, 10:06:11 AM
When I was a kid, I was eating dinner in a restaurant with my family and pontificating on the ickiness of girls when I proclaimed, "I hope I turn out to be gay." My father sternly said, don't say that, which prompted me to start yelling "I don't like girls and want to be gay!"

Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2009, 09:44:01 AM

Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 06:31:18 AM
How does "Don't ask, don't tell" work with counselling, anyways? Are lesbian/gay/bi soldiers allowed to talk about this when in session with a psychiatric or spiritual counsellor?

Mind you, in 1983 a German general was forced to resign over allegations of him being homosexual (though general consensus at the time was that there was no connection between being gay and being a security risk).
Little Syt, 6 or 7 at the time, asked his mom what "homosexual" meant.
"When boys sleep with boys."
"You mean in the same room, like at summer camp?"
"No, in the same bed."
"I wouldn't want that. I like my bed for myself."  :mad:

:blush:

My conversation went something like this:

"Mom, what is a homosexual?"
"Shh, don't say that word.  Those are very, very bad people."

Quote from: alfred russel on November 06, 2009, 10:06:11 AM
When I was a kid, I was eating dinner in a restaurant with my family and pontificating on the ickiness of girls when I proclaimed, "I hope I turn out to be gay." My father sternly said, don't say that, which prompted me to start yelling "I don't like girls and want to be gay!"

Quote
FORT HOOD, Texas (AP) -- Soldiers who witnessed the shooting rampage at Fort Hood that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" - an Arabic phrase for "God is great!" - before opening fire, the base commander said Friday.

Quote from: stjaba on November 06, 2009, 10:17:04 AM
Back to the original topic of this thread...

Quote
FORT HOOD, Texas (AP) -- Soldiers who witnessed the shooting rampage at Fort Hood that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" - an Arabic phrase for "God is great!" - before opening fire, the base commander said Friday.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FORT_HOOD_SHOOTING?SITE=TXDAM&TEMPLATE=HOME.html&SECTION=HOME

Quote from: Tonitrus on November 05, 2009, 08:57:41 PM
The AF is big on this "warrior" thing too.  Alas.

Quote from: alfred russel on November 06, 2009, 10:06:11 AM
When I was a kid, I was eating dinner in a restaurant with my family and pontificating on the ickiness of girls when I proclaimed, "I hope I turn out to be gay." My father sternly said, don't say that, which prompted me to start yelling "I don't like girls and want to be gay!"

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2009, 10:30:48 AM
I wonder how the dude got his hands on a weapon.

Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 10:38:45 AM
Probably from Ft. Hood.  I think they have lots of weapons there.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2009, 10:41:17 AM

Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 10:38:45 AM
Probably from Ft. Hood.  I think they have lots of weapons there.

Yeah, just lying in a big pile in the rec room.

Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 10:38:45 AM
Probably from Ft. Hood.  I think they have lots of weapons there.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2009, 10:31:55 AM

Quote from: Tonitrus on November 05, 2009, 08:57:41 PM
The AF is big on this "warrior" thing too.  Alas.

Not surprising that as the missions delegated to the armed forces expand to things other than fighting wars that more rhetorical emphasis is put on "warrior"-ness.

Quote from: Gbeagle on November 06, 2009, 10:49:24 AM

Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 10:38:45 AM
Probably from Ft. Hood.  I think they have lots of weapons there.

I thought on base generally only the MPs carried weapons, and the rest were all locked up? I might be wrong though.

Quote from: Fate on November 06, 2009, 04:37:33 PM

Son, this is Texas. Toddlers have at least two sidearms at all times.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 06, 2009, 04:53:18 PM

Quote from: Fate on November 06, 2009, 04:37:33 PM

Son, this is Texas. Toddlers have at least two sidearms at all times.

All federal property is gun-free except some national parks and wilderness exceptions.

Quote from: The Brain on November 06, 2009, 05:28:42 PM
What's wrong with these people?

Quote from: Fate on November 06, 2009, 05:12:06 PM
For some reason I don't think a hot bed of secessionists is following federal gun rules to the letter.

Quote from: Barrister on November 06, 2009, 05:37:58 PM

Quote from: The Brain on November 06, 2009, 05:28:42 PM
What's wrong with these people?

Gunshot wounds.

Quote from: Barrister on November 06, 2009, 05:37:58 PM

Quote from: The Brain on November 06, 2009, 05:28:42 PM
What's wrong with these people?

Gunshot wounds.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2009, 06:38:04 AM
A profile begins to emerge...

QuoteSuspect, devout Muslim from Va., wanted Army discharge, aunt said

By Mary Pat Flaherty, William Wan and Christian Davenport
Friday, November 6, 2009

He prayed every day at the Muslim Community Center in Silver Spring, a devout Muslim who, despite asking to be discharged from the U.S. Army, was on the eve of his first deployment to war. Yesterday, authorities said Maj. Nidal M. Hasan, a 39-year-old Arlington-born psychiatrist, shot and killed at least 12 people at Fort Hood, Tex.

In an interview, his aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, said he had endured name-calling and harassment about his Muslim faith for years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and had sought for several years to be discharged from the military.

"I know what that is like," she said. "Some people can take it, and some cannot. He had listened to all of that, and he wanted out of the military, and they would not let him leave even after he offered to repay" for his medical training.

An Army spokesman, Lt. Col. George Wright, said he could not confirm that Hasan requested a discharge.

As authorities scrambled to figure out what happened at Fort Hood, a hazy and contradictory picture emerged of a man who received his medical training from the military and spent his career in the Army, yet allegedly turned so violently against his own. Hasan spent nearly all of his professional life at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in the District, caring for the victims of trauma, yet he spoke openly of his deep opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Hasan, who was shot while being taken into custody, was reported in stable condition at a hospital Thursday night, authorities said.

The Associated Press reported that Hasan attracted the attention of law enforcement authorities in recent months after an Internet posting under the screen name "NidalHasan" compared Islamic suicide bombers to Japanese kamikaze pilots. "To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate," the posting read. "It's more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause."

He steered clear of female colleagues, co-workers said, and despite devout religious practices, listed himself in Army records as having no religious preference.

A longtime Walter Reed colleague who referred patients to psychiatrists said co-workers avoided sending service members to Hasan because of his unusual manner and solitary work habits.

Hasan is a 1997 graduate of Virginia Tech who went on to get a doctorate in psychiatry from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda. From 2003 through last summer, he was an intern, resident and then fellow at Walter Reed, where he worked as a liaison between wounded soldiers and the hospital's psychiatry staff. He was also a fellow at the Center for the Study of Traumatic Stress at the Bethesda military medical school.

He had been affected by the physical and mental injuries he saw while working as a psychiatrist at Walter Reed for nearly eight years, according to his aunt. "He must have snapped," Noel Hasan said. "They ignored him. It was not hard to know when he was upset. He was not a fighter, even as a child and young man. But when he became upset, his face turns red." She said Hasan had consulted with an attorney about getting out of the service.

On the rare occasions when he spoke of his work in any detail, the aunt said, Hasan told her of soldiers wracked by what they had seen. One patient had suffered burns to his face so intense "that his face had nearly melted," she said. "He told us how upsetting that was to him."

Hasan "did not make many friends" and "did not make friends fast," his aunt said. He had no girlfriend and was not married. "He would tell us the military was his life," she said.

The psychiatrist once said that "Muslims should stand up and fight against the aggressor" and that the United States shouldn't be fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place, according to an interview with Col. Terry Lee, a co-worker, on Fox News.

At the Muslim Community Center, Hasan stood out because he would sometimes show up in Army fatigues, said Faizul Khan, the former imam there.

"He came to mosque one or two times to see if there were any suitable girls to marry," Khan said. "I don't think he ever had a match, because he had too many conditions. He wanted a girl who was very religious, prays five times a day."

In search of a partner in marriage, Hasan wrote in an application filed with a local Muslim matching service that "I am quiet and reserved until more familiar with person. Funny, caring and personable."

"He was a very quiet and private person. I can't say that people knew him very well other than attending prayers," said Arshad Qureshi, chairman of the board of trustees at the Muslim Community Center of Silver Spring. "You didn't see him attend anything -- school for children or celebrations. He did not go out of the way to engage people. We have thousands of people who come through to pray; he was just one of them."

A co-worker at Walter Reed said Hasan would not allow his photo to be taken with female co-workers, which became an issue during Christmas season when employees often took group photos. Co-workers would find a solo photo of Hasan and post it on the bulletin board without his permission.

Lee told Fox News that Hasan "was hoping that President Obama would pull troops out. . . . When things weren't going that way, he became more agitated, more frustrated with the conflicts over there. . . . He made his views well known about how he felt about the U.S. involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan."

And when he talked about fighting "the aggressor," he said that his fellow soldiers "should stand up and help the armed forces in Iraq and in Afghanistan," Lee said.

Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) told reporters after a briefing on the shootings that Hasan was born in Virginia to parents who emigrated from Jordan. The congressman said that Hasan "took a lot of advanced training in shooting."

Hasan was polite and respectful, according to 1st Lt. Elizabeth Whiteside, who was treated by the psychiatrist at Walter Reed while recovering from a gunshot wound suffered in Iraq.

Whiteside remembers Hasan as serious. During his initial evaluation of her, she tried to make light when he coughed by saying, "Bless you." Hasan replied that he had coughed and not sneezed.

Hasan was "like my sons," his aunt said, spending holidays and free time at her house. Born at Arlington Hospital, Nidal Hasan graduated from high school in Roanoke, where his parents had moved. He enlisted in the Army after high school and attended Virginia Tech, majoring in biochemistry.

Hasan's parents died about 10 years ago. He had joined the military over their objections, Noel Hasan said. She said he has two brothers, Eyad, a businessman in Sterling, and Anas, a lawyer in Jerusalem.

When Army officials called Eyad Hasan to relay the news from Fort Hood on Thursday, Noel Hasan said, the brother "fainted when he heard it." Initially, she said, Eyad was told his brother was injured and in surgery and later was erroneously told he had died.

Hasan was an avid Redskins fan. "That was his main entertainment," his aunt said. "He was not a movie watcher. He worked hard and had been studying for years. He buried himself in his work."

Noel Hasan was unaware of her nephew's pending deployment. "He didn't call or send an e-mail saying anything like that," she said.

His last e-mail to her, she said, was a little more than a week ago "and it was just, "Hi, Aunt Noel. How are you doing?' "

See, it wasn't the two wars he objected to that made him snap;  it was Daniel Snyder.

Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2009, 10:12:58 AM

Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2009, 09:44:01 AM

Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 06:31:18 AM
How does "Don't ask, don't tell" work with counselling, anyways? Are lesbian/gay/bi soldiers allowed to talk about this when in session with a psychiatric or spiritual counsellor?

Mind you, in 1983 a German general was forced to resign over allegations of him being homosexual (though general consensus at the time was that there was no connection between being gay and being a security risk).
Little Syt, 6 or 7 at the time, asked his mom what "homosexual" meant.
"When boys sleep with boys."
"You mean in the same room, like at summer camp?"
"No, in the same bed."
"I wouldn't want that. I like my bed for myself."  :mad:

:blush:

My conversation went something like this:

"Mom, what is a homosexual?"
"Shh, don't say that word.  Those are very, very bad people."

My dad was pretty well entirely ignorant of homosexuality until he was an adult. My mom, who had numerous gay friends, eventually enlightened him. He was cool with it, just surprised.

My dad is - different.

For example, one of his collegues was undergoing a sex change - "he" got the hormone treatments, grew boobs, started wearing a dress, insisted on being called by "her" female name - and my dad did not notice for months.

Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2009, 10:13:26 AM

Quote from: alfred russel on November 06, 2009, 10:06:11 AM
When I was a kid, I was eating dinner in a restaurant with my family and pontificating on the ickiness of girls when I proclaimed, "I hope I turn out to be gay." My father sternly said, don't say that, which prompted me to start yelling "I don't like girls and want to be gay!"

That's funny.  I recall numerous occasions where my dad would somehow manage to live through an epic bitching and put-down session, and then privately say to me later "son, the best advice I can give you about women is: BE GAY."

Quote from: Barrister on November 06, 2009, 05:37:58 PM

Quote from: The Brain on November 06, 2009, 05:28:42 PM
What's wrong with these people?

Gunshot wounds.

QuoteAlleged shooter tied to mosque of 9/11 hijackers
Hasan apparently attended mosque when a radical imam preached there

AP

updated 6:42 p.m. ET Nov. 8, 2009

WASHINGTON - The alleged Fort Hood shooter apparently attended the same Virginia mosque as two Sept. 11 hijackers in 2001, at a time when a radical imam preached there.

Whether the Fort Hood shooter associated with the hijackers is something the FBI will probably look into, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

The family of Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army psychiatrist who killed 13 and wounded 29 at the Texas military base, held his mother's funeral at the Dar al Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church, Va., on May 31, 2001, according to her obituary in the Roanoke Times newspaper.

At the time, Anwar Aulaqi was an imam, or spiritual leader, at the Washington-area mosque. Aulaqi told the FBI in 2001 that, before he moved to Virginia in early 2001, he met with 9/11 hijacker Nawaf al-Hazmi several times in San Diego. Al-Hazmi was at the time living with Khalid al-Mihdhar, another hijacker. Al-Hazmi and another hijacker, Hani Hanjour, attended the Dar al Hijrah mosque in Virginia in early April 2001.

In his FBI interview, Aulaqi denied ever meeting with al-Hazmi and Hanjour while in Virginia.

Aulaqi, a native-born U.S. citizen, left the United States in 2002, eventually traveling to Yemen. He was investigated by the FBI in 1999 and 2000 after it was learned that he may have been contacted by a possible procurement agent for Osama bin Laden. During this investigation, the FBI learned that Aulaqi knew people involved in raising money for Hamas, a Palestinian group on the U.S. State Department's terrorist list.

Shaker Elsayed, the current imam at Dar Al Hijrah, declined to comment when reached Sunday by The Associated Press.

Faizul Khan, former imam of the Muslim Community Center in nearby Silver Spring, Md., where Hasan also worshipped, said he was not aware that Hasan had attended services at Dar al Hijrah but said it would not be unusual for Hasan to attend more than one mosque concurrently.

Khan said he did not recall Hasan mentioning having been taught or preached to by Aulaqi.

   The London Telegraph first reported the potential link between Hasan and the mosque.

Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey said Sunday it's important for the country not to get caught up in speculation about Hasan's Muslim faith, and he has instructed his commanders to be on the lookout for anti-Muslim reaction to the killings at the Texas post.

He says focusing on the Islamic roots of the suspected shooter could "heighten the backlash" against all Muslims in the military.

Casey says diversity in the military "gives us strength."

Casey declined to answer questions about the investigation into the shooting, but said evidence to this point shows that Hasan acted alone. He toured Fort Hood on Friday with Army Secretary John McHugh.

Casey appeared on ABC's "This Week" and CNN's "State of the Union."

QuoteAlleged Fort Hood Shooter Frequented Local Strip Club

Sunday , November 08, 2009
By Jana Winter

Killeen, Texas —
The Army psychiatrist authorities say killed 13 people and wounded 29 others at the Fort Hood Army Base Thursday was a recent and frequent customer at a local strip club, employees of the club told FoxNews.com exclusively.

Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan came into the Starz strip club not far from the base at least three times in the past month, the club's general manager, Matthew Jones, told FoxNews.com. Army investigators building their case against Hasan plan to interview Jones soon.

"The last time he was here, I remember checking his military ID at the door, and he paid his $15 cover and stayed for six or seven hours," Jones, 37, said.

Hasan's presence at the club paints a starkly different portrait of the alleged killer from that offered by his imam and family members, who have described him as a devout Muslim, and one who had difficulty finding a wife who would wear a head scarf and would pray five times a day.

Starz is a strip club located just down the road from the main gate entrance to the Fort Hood Base. It does not serve alcohol, but customers bring their own beer and liquor and buy ice buckets and mixers at the club.

Hasan sat at a table in the back corner of the club, to the left of the stage on which strippers dance around a pole, employees said.

Jennifer Jenner, who works at Starz using the stage name Paige, said Hasan bought a lap dance from her two nights in a row. She said he paid $50 for a dance lasting three songs in one of the club's private rooms on Oct. 29 and Oct. 30.

"I remembered his face because it was the first lap dance I [gave] to a customer while working here," she said. "When I saw his face [Friday] on TV, I jumped out of bed, I knew it was him."

Jenner, 31, said Hasan was dressed casually both nights he came to the club - in jeans and a T-shirt the first night and then wearing a baseball cap the next. She recalled that he arrived at about 6:30 p.m. and stayed until 2 a.m. She said he brought in a six pack of light beer, took only a few sips from one can and gave the rest to the strippers.

"He preferred the blondes," said Jenner, whose hair was dyed blond at the time. "He said he was a medic and that he was being deployed soon, but mostly he wanted to ask us questions."

"He asked us why we were working at the strip club, if we liked the lifestyle, if we had any kids," she said. "It was right before Halloween so he asked what our kids were dressing up as. He just wanted to know a lot about us."

Jenner said she asked Hasan why he liked coming to Starz instead of another of the roughly half a dozen other clubs nearby, all about an 8-minute drive from the Army base.

"I like it here because no one I work with is here," she said Hasan replied.

Starz is smaller than most of the other clubs, has only about 10 dancers and caters to a louder crowd. Jenner said Army medics generally don't hang out at the club.

"He wasnt too loud like some of our other customers, or sleazy. He didn't try to take any of us home and he was respectful," she said. "I think he mostly came here to kill some time and just relax. He stood out here because he was much more reserved than our other customers.

"I just can't believe that he's the one who killed all those people. You know, he tipped every girl as she came off the stage after her dance. He was a really good tipper."

Quote from: Tonitrus on November 09, 2009, 03:47:47 AM
The counterpoint article...

Quote from: Caliga on November 09, 2009, 06:37:10 AM
:yes: This leads me to believe he was associated with Al-Q in his head, if not necessarily in reality.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2009, 06:37:36 AM

Quote from: Caliga on November 09, 2009, 06:37:10 AM
:yes: This leads me to believe he was associated with Al-Q in his head, if not necessarily in reality.

This leads me to believe he was an asshole.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2009, 06:37:36 AM
This leads me to believe he was an asshole.

Quote from: Caliga on November 09, 2009, 06:48:19 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2009, 06:37:36 AM
This leads me to believe he was an asshole.

Nice work, detective.

Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2009, 09:05:58 PM
God Warrior?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns)

Quote from: Korea on November 09, 2009, 11:36:35 AM

Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2009, 09:05:58 PM
God Warrior?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns)

I saw that episode.  :ph34r:

Quote from: Grey Fox on November 09, 2009, 11:43:01 AM
No one has an idea about the Deputy Commander being a Canadian General?

Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2009, 02:55:12 PM
Man, she's fat.

Quote from: Caliga on November 09, 2009, 03:32:25 PM

Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2009, 02:55:12 PM
Man, she's fat.

IIRC part of the prize money from the show was earmarked for her to get gastric bypass surgery.  I saw a pic of her at one point a couple of years later and she had indeed lost a shitload of weight.

QuoteU.S. tracked Fort Hood suspect before shooting
Exchanges with radical cleric detected but probe was dropped, sources say

By David Johnston and Scott Shane

updated 7:52 p.m. ET Nov. 9, 2009
WASHINGTON - Intelligence agencies intercepted communications last year and earlier this year between Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who is accused of shooting to death 13 people at Fort Hood, Tex., and a radical cleric in Yemen known for his incendiary anti-American teachings. But federal authorities dropped an inquiry into the matter after deciding the messages warranted no further action, government officials said on Monday.

Maj. Hasan's exchanges with Anwar al-Awlaki, once a spiritual leader at a mosque in suburban Virginia where Maj. Hasan worshipped, indicate that the troubled military psychiatrist came to the attention of the authorities long before last Thursday's shooting rampage at Fort Hood, but left him in his post. It is not clear what was said in the exchanges, believed to be e-mail messages, and whether they would have offered a hint at the major's outspoken views or his declining emotional state.

The communications, the subject of an inquiry by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Army investigators, provide the first indication that Maj. Hasan was in direct communication with the cleric, who on Monday praised Maj. Hasan on his Web site, saying the Army psychiatrist "did the right thing" in attacking soldiers preparing to deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq.

Missed warning signs?
Depending on what is contained in the exchanges, the disclosure of the government's decision not to take any steps against Maj. Hasan may provoke criticism of the F.B.I. and Army investigators for missing possible warning signs of an alleged mass killer. F.B.I., military and intelligence officials were preparing to brief reporters on the matter Monday night.

But federal officials briefed on the case said their decision to break off the investigation was reasonable based on the information about Maj. Hasan that was compiled at the time, which they said gave no indication he was likely to engage in violence.

The officials said the communications do not alter the prevailing theory that Maj. Hasan acted by himself, lashing out as a result of combination of factors, including his outspoken opposition to American policy in Iraq and Afghanistan and his deepening religious fervor as a Muslim.

Maj. Hasan, who was shot by a police officer, has regained consciousness and is able to talk at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, though it is unclear if he has spoken to federal investigators about the shooting rampage. "He is critical but stable," a hospital spokeswoman, Maria Gallegos, said.

Ms. Gallegos added that Maj. Hasan, a psychiatrist by training, had come out of a coma on Saturday and has been conversing with his doctors ever since. He was in a coma when he arrived in San Antonio on Friday.

A lawyer for Maj. Hasan told the Associated Press on Monday he had asked investigators not to question his client and expressed doubt he could get a fair trial. The lawyer, retired Col. John P. Galligan, said he was contacted by Maj. Hasan's family on Monday and was traveling to San Antonio to consult with him.

'He is a man of conscience'
Mr. Awlaki, an American citizen born in New Mexico to Yemeni parents, wrote on Monday on his English-language website that Mr. Hasan was "a hero." The cleric said, "He is a man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people."

He added, "The only way a Muslim could Islamically justify serving as a soldier in the U.S. Army is if his intention is to follow the footsteps of men like Nidal."

After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in New York and Washington, Mr. Awlaki was quoted disapproving of such violence, and was portrayed as a moderate figure who might provide a bridge between Islam and Western Democracies. But since leaving the U.S. in 2002 for London, and later Yemen, Mr. Awlaki has become a prominent proponent of militant Islam via his Web site, www.anwar-alawlaki.com.

"He's one of the most popular figures among hard-line, English-speaking jihadis around the world," said Jarret Brachman, author of "Global Jihadism" and a terrorism consultant to the government.

Mr. Brachman said Mr. Awlaki is especially appealing to young Muslims who are curious about radical ideas but not yet committed. "He's American, he's funny, and he speaks in a very understandable way," Mr. Brachman said.

On his Web site, Mr. Awlaki invites comments or questions from visitors under the heading "Contact the Sheikh."

The Toronto Star reported last month that a group of young Canadians charged with plotting attacks against military and government targets were inspired, in part, by listening to Mr. Awlaki's sermons online.

In 2000 and 2001, Mr. Awlaki served as an imam at two mosques in the United States frequented by three future 9/11 hijackers. Khalid al-Midhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi attended the Rabat mosque in San Diego, where Mr. Awlaki later admitted meeting Hazmi several times but "claimed not to remember any specifics of what they discussed," according to the report of the national 9/11 commission.

Both Hazmi and another hijacker, Hani Hanjour, later attended the Dar al Hijra mosque in Falls, Church, Virginia after Mr. Awlaki had moved there in early 2001. The 9/11 commission report expressed "suspicion" about the coincidence, but said its investigators were unable to find Mr. Awlaki in Yemen to question him.

Unclear if they met at mosque
Mr. Hasan attended the same Virginia mosque, but it is not known whether they met there.

Mr. Awlaki, who is in his late 30s, was born in New Mexico of Yemeni parents, but returned to Yemen with his family as a child. He received a religious education in Yemen and later earned degrees in engineering at Colorado State and in education leadership at San Diego State, according to a biography on his Web site.

His writings urge Muslims to dedicate themselves to defending Islam, including pursuing "arms training," in such works as "44 Ways of Supporting Jihad."

At Fort Hood, the army constructed giant walls of grey containers around the headquarters of III Corps in advance of a memorial service to be held Tuesday for the 13 people killed when Maj. Hassan opened fire in a center where soldiers get vaccinated before being sent abroad.

"We are creating a venue back there that is somewhat private and clear of observation," said Lt. General Robert Cone, the base's commander.

President Obama and his wife are expected to attend the ceremony and the president will speak to a crowd that will include the survivors of the attack and the families of the victims. The ceremony will include prayers, a roll call of the dead and a 21-gun salute.

Lt. Gen. Cone said 15 people remain hospitalized with gunshot wounds, and 8 of those are in intensive care. Another 27 soldiers wounded are recovering and will attend the ceremony, he said.

As Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, the Connecticut independent, called for an investigation into how the army missed signs Major Hasan had become a violent opponent of the wars, Lt. Gen. Cone said his officers were reviewing their records to see if any other soldiers had emotional problems that could make them a threat. He said they were not focusing on Muslim soldiers. "What we're looking for is people with personal problems, not at all related to their religion," he said.

This article, "U.S. Monitored Fort Hood Suspect Before Shooting," appeared first in The New York Times.

Copyright © 2009 The New York Times

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 09, 2009, 11:31:48 PM
What a wasted oppurtunity.

Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2009, 10:12:23 PM
Did they ever fix that gap in her teeth?  Anyway, the second wife swap show she was on was pretty good as well-- they put her in a house with a militant whitey-hating black dude.

Quote from: barkdreg on November 10, 2009, 10:09:50 AM
Any news on the two other suspects detained? Or did it turn out to be a one man show.

Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2009, 07:48:30 PM
Well sounds like this guy is up and talking.  I think he'll pull through!

I imagine he wasn't pleased when he came to and saw the MPs standing by his bed.

"Oh man, I really fucking hope you guys aren't part of my 72 virgins."

Quote from: Razgovory on November 10, 2009, 12:25:38 PM
If all else fails I can still make the Russian laugh.

Quote from: Grey Fox on November 09, 2009, 11:43:01 AM
No one has an idea about the Deputy Commander being a Canadian General?

Quote from: saskganesh on November 10, 2009, 12:50:02 PM
I looked it up: they have had 5 Canadians as deputy commanders since 1998, including Rick Hillier.

I am guessing it is part of an officer exchange program.

Quote from: PDH on November 10, 2009, 01:12:09 PM

Quote from: saskganesh on November 10, 2009, 12:50:02 PM
I looked it up: they have had 5 Canadians as deputy commanders since 1998, including Rick Hillier.

I am guessing it is part of an officer exchange program.

Probably to get them needed experience under fire before going to Afghanistan.

Quote from: Caliga on November 13, 2009, 08:25:11 AM
I saw on CNN that apparently the guy is now a paraplegic.

Quote from: KRonn on November 13, 2009, 09:16:36 AM
I'm just waiting for this to be declared an act of extremist Muslim terrorism. Seems it was, based on what's been reported of the Major's dealings with radical groups, some of his own statements, papers he's put out such as in a medical class. That had nothing about medicine but was about his views on radical Islam, Jihad and such like that. Emails to al-Qaida. Seems there were so many warnings going off. Why did this ever get so far to this guy being retained in the military, and not more heavily investigated as well?

Quote from: Caliga on November 13, 2009, 08:25:11 AM
I saw on CNN that apparently the guy is now a paraplegic.

Quote from: DGuller on November 13, 2009, 10:39:00 AM

Quote from: Caliga on November 13, 2009, 08:25:11 AM
I saw on CNN that apparently the guy is now a paraplegic.

And sharp pain in his hands.  As far as mass shootings go, this one is pretty botched as far as the shooter's outcome is concerned.  Being painfully crippled seems like the worst possible outcome.

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 13, 2009, 09:46:26 AM

Quote from: KRonn on November 13, 2009, 09:16:36 AM
I'm just waiting for this to be declared an act of extremist Muslim terrorism. Seems it was, based on what's been reported of the Major's dealings with radical groups, some of his own statements, papers he's put out such as in a medical class. That had nothing about medicine but was about his views on radical Islam, Jihad and such like that. Emails to al-Qaida. Seems there were so many warnings going off. Why did this ever get so far to this guy being retained in the military, and not more heavily investigated as well?

Afraid of lawsuits?  General incompetence?  Probably a dislike of attacking a fellow officer's loyalty (sanity).

QuoteMedicalizing mass murder

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, November 13, 2009

What a surprise -- that someone who shouts "Allahu Akbar" (the "God is great" jihadist battle cry) as he is shooting up a room of American soldiers might have Islamist motives. It certainly was a surprise to the mainstream media, which spent the weekend after the Fort Hood massacre playing down Nidal Hasan's religious beliefs.

"I cringe that he's a Muslim. . . . I think he's probably just a nut case," said Newsweek's Evan Thomas. Some were more adamant. Time's Joe Klein decried "odious attempts by Jewish extremists . . . to argue that the massacre perpetrated by Nidal Hasan was somehow a direct consequence of his Islamic beliefs." While none could match Klein's peculiar cherchez-le-juif motif, the popular story line was of an Army psychiatrist driven over the edge by terrible stories he had heard from soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

They suffered. He listened. He snapped.

Really? What about the doctors and nurses, the counselors and physical therapists at Walter Reed Army Medical Center who every day hear and live with the pain and the suffering of returning soldiers? How many of them then picked up a gun and shot 51 innocents?

And what about civilian psychiatrists -- not the Upper West Side therapist treating Woody Allen neurotics, but the thousands of doctors working with hospitalized psychotics -- who every day hear not just tales but cries of the most excruciating anguish, of the most unimaginable torment? How many of those doctors commit mass murder?

It's been decades since I practiced psychiatry. Perhaps I missed the epidemic.

But, of course, if the shooter is named Nidal Hasan, who National Public Radio reported had been trying to proselytize doctors and patients, then something must be found. Presto! Secondary post-traumatic stress disorder, a handy invention to allow one to ignore the obvious.

And the perfect moral finesse. Medicalizing mass murder not only exonerates. It turns the murderer into a victim, indeed a sympathetic one. After all, secondary PTSD, for those who believe in it (you won't find it in DSM-IV-TR, psychiatry's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual), is known as "compassion fatigue." The poor man -- pushed over the edge by an excess of sensitivity.

Have we totally lost our moral bearings? Nidal Hasan (allegedly) cold-bloodedly killed 13 innocent people. His business card had his name, his profession, his medical degrees and his occupational identity. U.S. Army? No. "SoA" -- Soldier of Allah. In such cases, political correctness is not just an abomination. It's a danger, clear and present.

Consider the Army's treatment of Hasan's previous behavior. NPR's Daniel Zwerdling interviewed a Hasan colleague at Walter Reed about a hair-raising grand rounds that Hasan had apparently given. Grand rounds are the most serious academic event at a teaching hospital -- attending physicians, residents and students gather for a lecture on an instructive case history or therapeutic finding.

I've been to dozens of these. In fact, I gave one myself on post-traumatic retrograde amnesia -- as you can see, these lectures are fairly technical. Not Hasan's. His was an hour-long disquisition on what he called the Koranic view of military service, jihad and war. It included an allegedly authoritative elaboration of the punishments visited upon nonbelievers -- consignment to hell, decapitation, having hot oil poured down your throat. This "really freaked a lot of doctors out," reported NPR.

Nor was this the only incident. "The psychiatrist," reported Zwerdling, "said that he was the kind of guy who the staff actually stood around in the hallway saying: Do you think he's a terrorist, or is he just weird?"

Was anything done about this potential danger? Of course not. Who wants to be accused of Islamophobia and prejudice against a colleague's religion?

One must not speak of such things. Not even now. Not even after we know that Hasan was in communication with a notorious Yemen-based jihad propagandist. As late as Tuesday, The New York Times was running a story on how returning soldiers at Fort Hood had a high level of violence.

What does such violence have to do with Hasan? He was not a returning soldier. And the soldiers who returned home and shot their wives or fellow soldiers didn't cry "Allahu Akbar" as they squeezed the trigger.

The delicacy about the religion in question -- condescending, politically correct and deadly -- is nothing new. A week after the first (1993) World Trade Center attack, the same New York Times ran the following front-page headline about the arrest of one Mohammed Salameh: "Jersey City Man Is Charged in Bombing of Trade Center."

Ah yes, those Jersey men -- so resentful of New York, so prone to violence.

QuoteReally? What about the doctors and nurses, the counselors and physical therapists at Walter Reed Army Medical Center who every day hear and live with the pain and the suffering of returning soldiers? How many of them then picked up a gun and shot 51 innocents?

And what about civilian psychiatrists -- not the Upper West Side therapist treating Woody Allen neurotics, but the thousands of doctors working with hospitalized psychotics -- who every day hear not just tales but cries of the most excruciating anguish, of the most unimaginable torment? How many of those doctors commit mass murder?

Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2009, 08:13:38 PM
While I've no problem with this narrative, this part was rather stupid. Different people have different breaking points...we aren't all created equal.

Quote from: grumbler on November 13, 2009, 08:24:20 PM
I guess I am saying that i agree with you, but am more emphatic about it!  :D

Quote from: grumbler on November 13, 2009, 08:24:20 PM
It is dangerous to Grallonize, as Krauthammer and others appear to be doing.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 13, 2009, 10:43:15 PM
... hummus.

Quote from: grumbler on November 13, 2009, 08:24:20 PM

Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2009, 08:13:38 PM
While I've no problem with this narrative, this part was rather stupid. Different people have different breaking points...we aren't all created equal.

Anyone who used the term "mainstream media" (particularly as a singular noun) is shouting how moronic their thinking is.

"The Mainstream Media" are simply the modern version of "the Jewish World Conspiracy" - a boogieman concept on which one can blame everything.

Was this guy a psychotic who increasingly identified with the absolutism of Islamism as he cracked?  Looks like that to me.  But he is as individual a snowflake as Timothy McVay (who was far worse as a killer, IMO), and so the lessons we can learn from him are as limited as those we learned from McVay (who would seem, from background, pretty much indistinguishable from the victims of Hasan).

People are individuals.  It is dangerous to Grallonize, as Krauthammer and others appear to be doing.

I guess I am saying that i agree with you, but am more emphatic about it!  :D

Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2009, 01:03:11 PM
McVeigh :)

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:23:37 PM

Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2009, 01:03:11 PM
McVeigh :)

Who cares?

All whitey names sound the same.

Quote from: Viking on November 15, 2009, 01:25:09 PM

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:23:37 PM

Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2009, 01:03:11 PM
McVeigh :)

Who cares?

All whitey names sound the same.

Don't worry, grumbler got it wrong first and monkey see monkey do, so you are forgiven.

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:23:37 PM

Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2009, 01:03:11 PM
McVeigh :)

Who cares?

All whitey names sound the same.

Quote from: DGuller on November 15, 2009, 01:31:43 PM
If you look past the explosion and the kooky stuff, McVeigh wasn't really that bad of a guy.

Quote from: Syt on November 15, 2009, 01:35:16 PM

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:23:37 PM

Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2009, 01:03:11 PM
McVeigh :)

Who cares?

All whitey names sound the same.

Final proof that siege can't be who he claims to be. What Jew worth his matzeballs would misspell "Veigh" in any circumstance?

Oy Vey!

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 15, 2009, 01:46:41 PM
Pretty funny to see Siegy goofing on Nidal, as he's cut from the same fucking cloth.
A politico-religious extremist in the midst of the US armed services, complete with a fundamentalist and dangerous agenda, antithetical to the oath he took.  At least Nidal wasn't an agent for another nation's military.

Out of the three of you goofy ass fucks, I'd take McVeigh.

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 02:18:20 PM
My religion and my ethnicity are personal matters that do not interfere with my profesion.

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:38:13 PM
Yes he was.

The diference is not all whiteys are like him, while all muslims are like that Nadal Hassan dude.

Quote from: Queequeg on November 15, 2009, 05:18:26 PM

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 02:18:20 PM
My religion and my ethnicity are personal matters that do not interfere with my profesion.

Yeah.  You just "happen" to get aroused when tying up Iraqi women and children.

Quote from: Queequeg on November 15, 2009, 05:18:26 PM

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 02:18:20 PM
My religion and my ethnicity are personal matters that do not interfere with my profesion.

Yeah.  You just "happen" to get aroused when tying up Iraqi women and children.

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 02:18:20 PM
Fuck off.

I have proven my loyalty, my profesionalism, and my sense of duty.

My religion and my ethnicity are personal matters that do not interfere with my profesion.

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:30:32 PM
Are you calling me a monkey? Are you, racist prick?

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:30:32 PM

Quote from: Viking on November 15, 2009, 01:25:09 PM

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:23:37 PM

Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2009, 01:03:11 PM
McVeigh :)

Who cares?

All whitey names sound the same.

Don't worry, grumbler got it wrong first and monkey see monkey do, so you are forgiven.

Are you calling me a monkey? Are you, racist prick?

Quote from: Neil on November 15, 2009, 01:50:02 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 15, 2009, 01:46:41 PM
Pretty funny to see Siegy goofing on Nidal, as he's cut from the same fucking cloth.
A politico-religious extremist in the midst of the US armed services, complete with a fundamentalist and dangerous agenda, antithetical to the oath he took.  At least Nidal wasn't an agent for another nation's military.

Out of the three of you goofy ass fucks, I'd take McVeigh.

I was going to say, if Obama cuts off aid to Israel, expect Siege to shoot up a US Army base.

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:40:57 PM

Quote from: Syt on November 15, 2009, 01:35:16 PM

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 01:23:37 PM

Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2009, 01:03:11 PM
McVeigh :)

Who cares?

All whitey names sound the same.

Final proof that siege can't be who he claims to be. What Jew worth his matzeballs would misspell "Veigh" in any circumstance?

Oy Vey!

What's "Veigh"?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2009, 12:08:23 AM
How the fuck did I put that post in this thread?  :huh:

Quote from: Josephus on November 18, 2009, 05:45:05 PM
I'm so glad I was in the Grenadian rainforest when all of this happened and didn't read or watch a single news story for six whole days.  :) I can't imagine how much CNN would have played this up.

Quote from: Caliga on November 18, 2009, 04:50:36 PM
Enjoy!  :)

http://www.npr.org/documents/2009/nov/hasanletter.pdf (http://www.npr.org/documents/2009/nov/hasanletter.pdf)

Quote from: KRonn on November 19, 2009, 10:48:58 AM

Quote from: Caliga on November 18, 2009, 04:50:36 PM
Enjoy!  :)

http://www.npr.org/documents/2009/nov/hasanletter.pdf (http://www.npr.org/documents/2009/nov/hasanletter.pdf)

Interesting indeed.