Languish.org

General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: MadImmortalMan on October 19, 2009, 05:14:42 PM

Title: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: MadImmortalMan on October 19, 2009, 05:14:42 PM
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2009-10/physicists-calculate-exact-number-alternate-universes


Quote
Physicists Calculate Exact Number of Alternate Universes
There are 10^10^16 of them (but #1,000,443,163,313,125,343,132 is the evil one)
By Stuart Fox Posted 10.16.2009 at 10:28 am

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popsci.com%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2Farticle_image_large%2Ffiles%2Farticles%2FStarTrekMirrorMirrorSpock2.jpg&hash=333894349180d606442bb5d734e9f85db1ea3203)


For some time, physicists have theorized about the existence of alternate universes. In fact, some models of physics require multiple universes, to explain some rarely observed phenomena. But, other than obvious ones like The Man In The High Castle Universe where the Nazis won WWII, the Earth-295 Age of Apocalypse Universe, and the Terran Empire "Mirror Mirror" Universe, just how many alternate universes are there? Well, some Stanford University physicists have answered that question, and the magic number is: 10^10^16 other realities.

The physicists, Andrei Linde and Vitaly Vanchurin, calculated the number by first going all the way back to the Big Bang. Linde and Vanchurin posit that the stellar organization and physics of our universe resulted from small perturbations in the otherwise uniform mass of matter and energy that existed milliseconds after the Big Bang. So, the number of possible variations of those perturbations represents the upper limit of possible alternate universes, or about 10^10^10^7 possible alternate universes.

However, because of the physical limits of the human brain, no individual could perceive more than 10^10^16 realities different from our own. And since the perspective of the viewer factors into the calculations (like time dilation in relativity), that's the number of possible alternate universes.

Of course, that's the total number of POSSIBLE alternate universes. The number of ACTUAL alternative universes actually depends on depends on how many boxes the Professor made.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: DGuller on October 19, 2009, 05:17:33 PM
It's about 10^16 zeros.  :smarty:
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Razgovory on October 19, 2009, 05:17:39 PM
In none of them the confederacy won.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2009, 05:33:40 PM
So...this is every particle there has ever been moving in every conceievable way it could have moved through all time and every combination thereupon?
Cool if they've actually calculated that :blink:
I mean...even a single particle throughout history could have created a number of universes infinite to our understanding let alone that infinity times another infinity if we're counting two particles....and so on.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Liep on October 19, 2009, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2009, 05:33:40 PM
So...this is every particle there has ever been moving in every conceievable way it could have moved through all time and every combination thereupon?
Cool if they've actually calculated that :blink:
I mean...even a single particle throughout history could have created a number of universes infinite to our understanding let alone that infinity times another infinity if we're counting two particles....and so on.
He did say a lot of zeros.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Warspite on October 19, 2009, 05:52:46 PM
QuoteHowever, because of the physical limits of the human brain, no individual could perceive more than 10^10^16 realities different from our own. And since the perspective of the viewer factors into the calculations (like time dilation in relativity), that's the number of possible alternate universes.

This doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Agelastus on October 19, 2009, 05:57:59 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2009, 05:33:40 PM
So...this is every particle there has ever been moving in every conceievable way it could have moved through all time and every combination thereupon?
Cool if they've actually calculated that :blink:
I mean...even a single particle throughout history could have created a number of universes infinite to our understanding let alone that infinity times another infinity if we're counting two particles....and so on.

It does sound a bit extreme when you put it that way.  :blink:

As a layman, I don't see how that is possible.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: alfred russel on October 19, 2009, 06:08:32 PM
160.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:33:51 PM
Wicked awesome.

My favorite alternate universe so far is this one.

www.amazon.com/Britannias-Fist-Civil.../dp/1574888234
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Josephus on October 19, 2009, 06:39:44 PM
Quote from: Warspite on October 19, 2009, 05:52:46 PM
QuoteHowever, because of the physical limits of the human brain, no individual could perceive more than 10^10^16 realities different from our own. And since the perspective of the viewer factors into the calculations (like time dilation in relativity), that's the number of possible alternate universes.

This doesn't make any sense.

No, but it does in another universe.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:33:51 PM
Wicked awesome.

My favorite alternate universe so far is this one.

www.amazon.com/Britannias-Fist-Civil.../dp/1574888234

You suck.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:33:51 PM
Wicked awesome.

My favorite alternate universe so far is this one.

www.amazon.com/Britannias-Fist-Civil.../dp/1574888234

You suck.
Shockingly, I disagree. :smarty:
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:46:59 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:33:51 PM
Wicked awesome.

My favorite alternate universe so far is this one.

www.amazon.com/Britannias-Fist-Civil.../dp/1574888234

You suck.
Shockingly, I disagree. :smarty:

Your opinion was overruled as hearsay.

My original ruling stands. You suck.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:49:17 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:46:59 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:33:51 PM
Wicked awesome.

My favorite alternate universe so far is this one.

www.amazon.com/Britannias-Fist-Civil.../dp/1574888234

You suck.
Shockingly, I disagree. :smarty:

Your opinion was overruled as hearsay.

My original ruling stands. You suck.

You can't judge me, only Neil can judge me. :contract:
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Agelastus on October 19, 2009, 06:58:26 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:49:17 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:46:59 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:33:51 PM
Wicked awesome.

My favorite alternate universe so far is this one.

www.amazon.com/Britannias-Fist-Civil.../dp/1574888234

You suck.
Shockingly, I disagree. :smarty:

Your opinion was overruled as hearsay.

My original ruling stands. You suck.

You can't judge me, only Neil can judge me. :contract:

I consider 67th Tiger's opinion on the issue of "Britannia's Fist" as more valid than yours.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 07:01:42 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:49:17 PM


You can't judge me, only Neil can judge me. :contract:

I judge everybody, and you have been found lacking.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Razgovory on October 19, 2009, 07:11:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 07:01:42 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:49:17 PM


You can't judge me, only Neil can judge me. :contract:

I judge everybody, and you have been found lacking.

Especially in the bone marrow department.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Neil on October 19, 2009, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2009, 05:33:40 PM
So...this is every particle there has ever been moving in every conceievable way it could have moved through all time and every combination thereupon?
Cool if they've actually calculated that :blink:
I mean...even a single particle throughout history could have created a number of universes infinite to our understanding let alone that infinity times another infinity if we're counting two particles....and so on.
Heavens no.

I'd be interested in reading more.  Myself, I've always preferred the four-dimensional branes floating in five-dimensional space cosmology.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on October 19, 2009, 06:58:26 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:49:17 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:46:59 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 19, 2009, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 06:33:51 PM
Wicked awesome.

My favorite alternate universe so far is this one.

www.amazon.com/Britannias-Fist-Civil.../dp/1574888234

You suck.
Shockingly, I disagree. :smarty:

Your opinion was overruled as hearsay.

My original ruling stands. You suck.

You can't judge me, only Neil can judge me. :contract:

I consider 67th Tiger's opinion on the issue of "Britannia's Fist" as more valid than yours.

He may know his dreadnaughts, but he knows fuck all about the Civil War. I mean for god sakes, he insists that McClellan was the greatest Union general of the War.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Neil on October 19, 2009, 08:24:02 PM
DREADNOUGHT.  The word is dreadnought.  The Dreadnaught was a tugboat.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: FunkMonk on October 19, 2009, 09:35:27 PM
Which universe are dreadnoughts still prevalent in?
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Tonitrus on October 19, 2009, 09:52:06 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2009, 07:54:24 PM
He may know his dreadnaughts, but he knows fuck all about the Civil War. I mean for god sakes, he insists that McClellan was the greatest Union general of the War.

As he probably wanted the North to lose, there is nothing inconsistent with that opinion.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: FunkMonk on October 19, 2009, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on October 19, 2009, 09:35:27 PM
Which universe are dreadnoughts still prevalent in?

Rather, in which universe are dreadnoughts still prevalent?
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 19, 2009, 10:52:42 PM
A bump disguised as a grammatical correction, very sneaky. :shifty:
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: DGuller on October 19, 2009, 11:38:23 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 19, 2009, 06:08:32 PM
160.
I'm so itching to make an appropriate joke here.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Grey Fox on October 20, 2009, 07:24:44 AM
1000000000000000 Zeros
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: alfred russel on October 20, 2009, 07:27:25 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 19, 2009, 11:38:23 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 19, 2009, 06:08:32 PM
160.
I'm so itching to make an appropriate joke here.

Go ahead, I realize I'm wrong and you and grey fox are right.  :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2009, 09:41:09 AM
:barf:
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Viking on October 20, 2009, 09:50:00 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 20, 2009, 07:24:44 AM
1000000000000000 Zeros

it's a one followed ten thousand trillion zeroes

I personally disagree, I think it is a 1 followed by ten thousand trillion -1 zeroes followed by a 2. 
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Martim Silva on October 20, 2009, 02:50:56 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on October 19, 2009, 05:57:59 PM
It does sound a bit extreme when you put it that way.  :blink:

As a layman, I don't see how that is possible.

I also doubt it. As it was pointed out, for the theory to be true, every single change, even at a particle/photon level would lead to a new alternate universe, and so on...

Most people believe this nonsense because they only think about Human history, say: "Caesar not murdered in 44 b.C. - History changes" and accept it, but alternative universes would be far, far, far more than that, every change in anything would change everything, and this would happen during every microsecond for billions of years.

In other words, not even a hundred zillion trillion billion zeroes after the 1 would suffice to number them. Not even by a longshot.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2009, 03:02:23 PM
Quote from: Martim Silva on October 20, 2009, 02:50:56 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on October 19, 2009, 05:57:59 PM
It does sound a bit extreme when you put it that way.  :blink:

As a layman, I don't see how that is possible.

I also doubt it. As it was pointed out, for the theory to be true, every single change, even at a particle/photon level would lead to a new alternate universe, and so on...

Most people believe this nonsense because they only think about Human history, say: "Caesar not murdered in 44 b.C. - History changes" and accept it, but alternative universes would be far, far, far more than that, every change in anything would change everything, and this would happen during every microsecond for billions of years.

In other words, not even a hundred zillion trillion billion zeroes after the 1 would suffice to number them. Not even by a longshot.

You can certainly play around with the number of particles in the known universe and possible states and configurations etc. Then you end up with a number. The number will be big enough if you pile on the zeroes. What may be hard to grasp for a layman is how large large numbers are.

Consider: how many orders of magnitude do you need to describe the universe? Not that many.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Neil on October 20, 2009, 03:11:04 PM
The really interesting changes are of the constants and forces anyways.  I am unconvinced by the concept of doppleganger universes.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: grumbler on October 20, 2009, 10:49:19 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 19, 2009, 05:14:42 PM
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2009-10/physicists-calculate-exact-number-alternate-universes


Quote
Physicists Calculate Exact Number of Alternate Universes
The physicists, Andrei Linde and Vitaly Vanchurin, calculated the number by first going all the way back to the Big Bang. Linde and Vanchurin posit that the stellar organization and physics of our universe resulted from small perturbations in the otherwise uniform mass of matter and energy that existed milliseconds after the Big Bang. So, the number of possible variations of those perturbations represents the upper limit of possible alternate universes, or about 10^10^10^7 possible alternate universes.

However, because of the physical limits of the human brain, no individual could perceive more than 10^10^16 realities different from our own. And since the perspective of the viewer factors into the calculations (like time dilation in relativity), that's the number of possible alternate universes.
This isn't science per se, but rather entertainment couched in the form of science, and the author of the story caught the mood of the scientists quite well.  That is rare and commendable.
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on October 21, 2009, 01:26:20 AM
52. unless it's marvel, then there's like a bunch. most are really gay though ( and not in a fun homosexual way)
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 09, 2009, 11:09:41 PM
The Onion does Alternate History.  :lol:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/alternate_universe_sci_fi_channel?utm_source=onion_rss_daily
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: dps on November 10, 2009, 12:30:06 AM
Great, now Timmay's managed to taint The Onion.   :cry:
Title: Re: Exact Number of Alternate Universes = 10^10^16 - How many zeros is that?
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2009, 02:56:48 AM
I want a universe with rainbow ponies.