QuoteKids send Marcus the lamb to slaughter
Mon Sep 14, 2:10 pm ET
LONDON (Reuters) – A group of schoolchildren who reared a lamb from birth and named it Marcus has overridden objections by parents and rights activists and voted to send the animal to slaughter.
Marcus the six-month-old lamb has now been culled, the head teacher of the primary school in Kent confirmed on Monday, after the school's council -- a 14-member group of children aged 6 to 11 -- voted 13-1 to have him killed.
The decision has provoked fury among animal-loving celebrities, animal and human rights campaigners and the parents of some of the children, and led to threats against Lydd primary school and its teachers, according to a member of staff.
Around 250 children at the school take part in a program designed to teach them about rearing and breeding animals.
The educational farm was started this year, with Marcus being hand-fed by the children. The children also look after ducks, chickens, rabbits and guinea pigs.
The intention had been to buy pigs with the money raised from slaughtering Marcus, but those plans have been put on hold following the furor created by the lamb's culling. The school said the program may now have to be stopped.
"It's all up in the air," said a member of staff. "There's been so much pressure on us as a result of all this."
Despite that, the school said there had been overwhelming support among the children, the staff and most of the parents to have Marcus -- a castrated male who could not have been used for breeding -- sent to the slaughterhouse.
But opponents branded it heartless and cruel, with animal rights campaigners asking why Marcus could not have been used to teach the children about wool, and human rights campaigners worried about the emotional impact of Marcus's death on the children.
A popular talkshow host offered to buy the lamb and give it sanctuary and Facebook groups sprung up to rally support to keep Marcus alive. But the children had the final say. The school defended the children's decision, calling it educational.
"When we started the farm in spring 2009, the aim was to educate the children in all aspects of farming life and everything that implies," the school said in a statement.
"The children have had a range of opportunities to discuss this issue, both in terms of the food cycle and the ethical aspect... It is important for everyone to move on from this issue, so the children can focus on their education."
(Reporting by Luke Baker; Editing by Steve Addison)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090914/od_nm/us_sheep_odd/print
Kids are sometimes smarter than adults. :lol:
What the Fuck?
Am I surprised? No, PETAtards seem to lack a mental switch in their heads.
:huh: It exists for no reason other than to be eaten... :unsure:
Those children are geniuses.
I think the concern is that Marcus had been raised as a pet. Had there been a dozen goats, none with names, and one was sold to butcher to pay for other animals, I doubt people would be this upset. (Except the PETA nitwits, but they're.. bizarre.)
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 07:30:05 AM
:huh: It exists for no reason other than to be eaten... :unsure:
Goats are often kept as pets, and as a source of wool. He was much more useful being slaughtered, as it meant they could get more animals, but there were other uses for him beyond just that.
Quote
But opponents branded it heartless and cruel, with animal rights campaigners asking why Marcus could not have been used to teach the children about wool, and human rights campaigners worried about the emotional impact of Marcus's death on the children.
They're the one's who voted for death! :lol:
Quote from: merithyn on September 17, 2009, 07:30:51 AM
I think the concern is that Marcus had been raised as a pet. Had there been a dozen goats, none with names, and one was sold to butcher to pay for other animals, I doubt people would be this upset. (Except the PETA nitwits, but they're.. bizarre.)
Except none of the people who knew Marcus are the ones making a stink. It is a bunch of busybodies who love to tell other people what to do.
Quotehuman rights campaigners worried about the emotional impact of Marcus's death on the children.
I think the kids are anxious to kill the damn thing just to say 'screw you' to moronic adults like these people. I know I would have at age 6-11. :P
'Threaten our teachers eh? We put this in your latte and drink it human righttards.'
delicious, delicious lamb.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 17, 2009, 07:41:44 AM
They're the one's who voted for death! :lol:
Well yeah it is a farm animal, livestock, that is sorta what you do when the time comes. They are learning about animal husbandry after all.
But it seems what is perfectly ok is making threats against the school and its teachers.
This is kinda fucked up.
Animals are raised to be eaten sure, fine.
But...hand rearing just one, giving it a name, having it pretty much like a pet and then slaughtering it to be eaten.....iffy.
Oh.
And mutton>lamb anyway.
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 07:48:12 AM
This is kinda fucked up.
Animals are raised to be eaten sure, fine.
But...hand rearing just one, giving it a name, having it pretty much like a pet and then slaughtering it to be eaten.....iffy.
Yeah people have only been doing that for thousands of years.
And it was not like this goat was the class mascot, it is one of many animals the class has been raising.
Heh, reminds me of a friend of mine who was actually reared on a working farm.
His dad gave him a baby chick as a pet when she was a wee kid. Big mistake! :lol:
Suffice it to say that she did not vote as this class did, but her vote was overridden by her dad's. This story did not have a happy "Babe" style ending.
Quote from: Malthus on September 17, 2009, 07:54:51 AM
His dad gave him a baby chick as a pet when she was a wee kid. Big mistake! :lol:
Hehe my mother raised a pig and a cow as pets when she was a girl.
Strangely she had to no problem selling them off when the time came. Of course that was because she wanted to buy clothes and my grandmother was the world's cheapest woman. See it is different when the kid stands to benefit :P
Quotethe school's council -- a 14-member group of children aged 6 to 11 -- voted 13-1 to have him killed.
That's very strange. Hope they enjoy their kebabs.
Quote from: merithyn on September 17, 2009, 07:31:55 AMGoats are often kept as pets, and as a source of wool. He was much more useful being slaughtered, as it meant they could get more animals, but there were other uses for him beyond just that.
I know you and I are not disagreeing on this issue, but I know of at least one case of people keeping animals as pets and then slaughtering them. My dad used to have a live-in manager who kept a pigpen and he and his family considered the pigs as pets, but did slaughter them for pork. So while I guess it might be unusual it's at least not completely alien.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 17, 2009, 08:00:59 AM
Quotethe school's council -- a 14-member group of children aged 6 to 11 -- voted 13-1 to have him killed.
That's very strange. Hope they enjoy their kebabs.
First thought was that it was kind of Lord of the Flies. And they are English. So it kinda fit. But PETA is angry so that's a good thing. YeaH!
Quote from: Valmy on September 17, 2009, 07:53:19 AM
Yeah people have only been doing that for thousands of years.
Since when?
My uncle certainly doesn't name the animals on his farm (well...except the dogs).
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 17, 2009, 08:18:34 AMFirst thought was that it was kind of Lord of the Flies. And they are English. So it kinda fit. But PETA is angry so that's a good thing. YeaH!
PETA is always angry about something or other, and if they can't find some new legit issue to froth about they go back to picking on KFC.
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:27:26 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 17, 2009, 08:18:34 AMFirst thought was that it was kind of Lord of the Flies. And they are English. So it kinda fit. But PETA is angry so that's a good thing. YeaH!
PETA is always angry about something or other, and if they can't find some new legit issue to froth about they go back to picking on KFC.
Should eat hamburgers in front of their HQ.
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:27:26 AMPETA is always angry about something or other, and if they can't find some new legit issue to froth about they go back to picking on KFC.
That's fine with me, that usually involves a hot chick in a bikini locked up in a cage. Dinner AND a show.
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 08:26:29 AM
Since when?
My uncle certainly doesn't name the animals on his farm (well...except the dogs).
My uncle had a cow named Brisket. :lol: Guess what happened to him.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 17, 2009, 08:31:12 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 08:26:29 AM
Since when?
My uncle certainly doesn't name the animals on his farm (well...except the dogs).
My uncle had a cow named Brisket. :lol: Guess what happened to him.
Delicious.
:lol: That's awesome. If I had cows I'd name them BBQ, Delmonico, and Big Mac.
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:35:27 AM
:lol: That's awesome. If I had cows I'd name them BBQ, Delmonico, and Big Mac.
And a pig named 'McRib'.
Good for them. Part of the reason our diet's so shit in this country is no-one teaches kids where food comes from. Most of them won't eat meat and a lot of adults won't buy and cook it unless it's an anonymous, bloodless block of protein.
I remember seeing a pig carcass being delivered to a butcher as a kid. I ate nothing but bread and milk for a week, then sson realised it was just an burden of being top of the food chain and got over it.
They should have taught the kids how to butcher it to. In this time of mass unemployment, butchery skills are in great demand and butchers are highly paid.
In other news, Reuters journalists suck. "Cull"? My fat thesaurus.
One time I went to the Topsfield State Fair and was in the livestock exhibit. There was some USDA thing with a bunch of cows. I walked up to the edge of the fence and said "I'll see you at Longhorn Steakhouse next Friday!" to one of the steers. The guy running it overheard me and quitely asked me to not say stuff like that because it might 'upset people'. Me = embarassed :Embarrass:
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:39:19 AM
One time I went to the Topsfield State Fair and was in the livestock exhibit. There was some USDA thing with a bunch of cows. I walked up to the edge of the fence and said "I'll see you at Longhorn Steakhouse next Friday!" to one of the steers. The guy running it overheard me and quitely asked me to not say stuff like that because it might 'upset people'. Me = embarassed :Embarrass:
Your fault for going to that tourist trap!
NEVER AGAIN. It look THREE HOURS to get there owing to the horrible traffic. :mad:
We roasted a lamb over a campfire at a living history week. The lamb had been raised in a historical farm and the farmer brought its father out to see it over the pit :D
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 08:41:37 AM
We roasted a lamb over a campfire at a living history week. The lamb had been raised in a historical farm and the farmer brought its father out to see it over the pit :D
Could the sheep, like, tell somehow?
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:41:13 AM
NEVER AGAIN. It look THREE HOURS to get there owing to the horrible traffic. :mad:
It applies to Longhorn's too. Rathole.
Last time I went to the Faire I paid 8 bucks for a leathery "Philly cheese steak" and three bucks for a coke. Then it took 30 minutes to clear the parking lot. NEVAH AGIN!
Oh, I don't go to Longhorn any more, now that I live in a town with a shitload of great steak joints. :cool:
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 08:26:29 AM
Since when?
My uncle certainly doesn't name the animals on his farm (well...except the dogs).
If they're for commercial purposes no, but if you have a few animals for personal consumption they often end up getting names. It wasn't uncommon when I was a kid for Mom to put a roast on tha table and one of us kids to ask "are we eating Buster tonight?" It bothered Mom a lot more than the kids. :lol:
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 08:38:36 AM
They should have taught the kids how to butcher it to. In this time of mass unemployment, butchery skills are in great demand and butchers are highly paid.
Should they learn how to butcher live animals before or after their afternoon naps?
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:46:03 AM
Oh, I don't go to Longhorn any more, now that I live in a town with a shitload of great steak joints. :cool:
:(
Nearest decent place is in Merrimac and starts out at 30 bucks an entree.
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 07:48:12 AM
This is kinda fucked up.
Animals are raised to be eaten sure, fine.
But...hand rearing just one, giving it a name, having it pretty much like a pet and then slaughtering it to be eaten.....iffy.
Oh.
And mutton>lamb anyway.
I find it fascinating that people can say stuff like this as "fact" and not even (apparently) realize that it is just something that they made up. "Iffy" is the word for it.
There is no evidence that these kids considered this goat as anything but a future source of revenue. They are, after all, running a "farm" and sending animals off to slaughter is what farms do.
New Englanders suck at eating good food, which is probably why they're all so damn thin. :(
I used to have an employee who was a native and he thought black pepper was "too spicy". Guy was a thin as a rail! :lol:
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:57:49 AM
New Englanders suck at eating good food, which is probably why they're all so damn thin. :(
I used to have an employee who was a native and he thought black pepper was "too spicy". Guy was a thin as a rail! :lol:
Sounds like my old coworker. In the ten years I knew him he had the same thing for lunch every single day. Two slices of supermarket brand white bread, a slice of American cheese (or the leftovers of a cheese and cracker plate if there was a party the previous weekend), a juice box, and two Netslie's Kisses. Every day. No soda. Dinnners at his place were usually boiled frozen veggies, frozen corn, and maybe some 'stew' that had been sittin gin a crock pot on high since the previous night.
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:57:49 AM
New Englanders suck at eating good food, which is probably why they're all so damn thin. :(
I used to have an employee who was a native and he thought black pepper was "too spicy". Guy was a thin as a rail! :lol:
That is what we need to keep this nation thin! Remove the non-New England the population and clone New Englanders and resettle all the other states.
Quote from: Valmy on September 17, 2009, 09:02:28 AM
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:57:49 AM
New Englanders suck at eating good food, which is probably why they're all so damn thin. :(
I used to have an employee who was a native and he thought black pepper was "too spicy". Guy was a thin as a rail! :lol:
That is what we need to keep this nation thin! Remove the non-New England the population and clone New Englanders and resettle all the other states.
We are a rude and standoffish people. Would never work.
Quote from: Valmy on September 17, 2009, 09:02:28 AMThat is what we need to keep this nation thin! Remove the non-New England the population and clone New Englanders and resettle all the other states.
Signing your own death warrant eh Val? :)
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 09:04:53 AM
Signing your own death warrant eh Val? :)
What can I say? I look for creative solutions to our nation's problems. I regret I have but one life to give to my country.
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 08:38:36 AM
In other news, Reuters journalists suck. "Cull"? My fat thesaurus.
The more I think about this use of the word, the more it pisses me off. Not only is it totally incorrect, I judge that it's being used emotively due to its association with seal culling.
Cull: To heartlessly murder something fluffy.
I'm glad the kids voted to kill the methane-farting fluffball. A good contribution to preventing global warming by the youngsters :cool:
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 09:18:36 AM
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 08:38:36 AM
In other news, Reuters journalists suck. "Cull"? My fat thesaurus.
The more I think about this use of the word, the more it pisses me off. Not only is it totally incorrect, I judge that it's being used emotively due to its association with seal culling.
Cull: To heartlessly murder something fluffy.
Your anger is turning me on.
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:01:30 AM
I know you and I are not disagreeing on this issue, but I know of at least one case of people keeping animals as pets and then slaughtering them. My dad used to have a live-in manager who kept a pigpen and he and his family considered the pigs as pets, but did slaughter them for pork. So while I guess it might be unusual it's at least not completely alien.
I've seen it happen lots of times. But urban folks probably haven't, and my guess is that those complaining loudest are those with no experience on a farm. The idea of naming an animal, raising it, and then killing it - even by a third party - will be appalling to them. And I'm sure they'll think that the children just don't get it and will be destroyed later on.
They're thinking of the children, after all.
Quote from: merithyn on September 17, 2009, 09:37:45 AM
I've seen it happen lots of times. But urban folks probably haven't, and my guess is that those complaining loudest are those with no experience on a farm.
Precisely. :)
I would love to see PETA membership stats in terms of urban dwellers vs. rural folks.
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 09:42:15 AM
Quote from: merithyn on September 17, 2009, 09:37:45 AM
I've seen it happen lots of times. But urban folks probably haven't, and my guess is that those complaining loudest are those with no experience on a farm.
Precisely. :)
I would love to see PETA membership stats in terms of urban dwellers vs. rural folks.
99 to 1
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 09:18:36 AM
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 08:38:36 AM
In other news, Reuters journalists suck. "Cull"? My fat thesaurus.
The more I think about this use of the word, the more it pisses me off. Not only is it totally incorrect, I judge that it's being used emotively due to its association with seal culling.
Cull: To heartlessly murder something fluffy.
:lol:
It bothered me when I read it at first too, but now that you've put it that way, I find it funny.
Well fuck, I'm hungry now.
We had to kill some old hens/pets, pluck them, clean them out etc as a kid. To be honest, it didn't really register when we were told to do it, because I'd not done anything like that before and I think it was something qiute unreal to me. When we did it and it became real, it really wasn't something very nice and I wouldn't eat Speckly Hen, Brown Hen, White chicky, Fluffy Hen ........ Not really a decisioon for children to make about pets.
A friend of mine taught 1st Year English and the topic came up about meat - and he realized nobody in the class understood where steaks came from. Oh, they realized that cows were walking steaks, but not the process. He explained it to them.
I imagine it was like the Troy McClure short about Bovine University...
Quote from: PDH on September 17, 2009, 10:47:11 AM
I imagine it was like the Troy McClure short about Bovine University...
Lisa: They can't seriously expect us to swallow that tripe.
Skinner: Now as a special treat courtesy of our friends at the Meat Council, please help yourself to this tripe. (Class cheers and runs to table loaded with tripe)
Lisa: Stop it, Stop IT! Don't you realize you've just been brainwashed by corporate propaganda?
Janie: Hmmph, apparently my crazy friend here hasn't heard of the food chain.
Uter: Yeah, Lisa's a grade A moron!
Ralph: When I grow up, I'm going to go to Bovine University.
There is something very cute about a children's death panel voting nearly unanimously to do the chop-chop on the lamb they raised.
The whole project seems odd. When I was that age we raised butterfly larvae and released them once they turned in to butterflies. We didn't raise livestock and send them off to the slaughterhouse.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 17, 2009, 11:00:52 AM
The whole project seems odd. When I was that age we raised butterfly larvae and released them once they turned in to butterflies. We didn't raise livestock and send them off to the slaughterhouse.
But you're from Hippy California not Rural England.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 17, 2009, 11:00:52 AM
The whole project seems odd. When I was that age we raised butterfly larvae and released them once they turned in to butterflies. We didn't raise livestock and send them off to the slaughterhouse.
But 50 years previously most kids would have been involved in or at least seen the slaughter of farm animals. We've lost that insight into the whole food chain which has led to poor quality food, bad diets and cruelly raised livestock.
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 08:38:36 AM
Good for them. Part of the reason our diet's so shit in this country is no-one teaches kids where food comes from. Most of them won't eat meat and a lot of adults won't buy and cook it unless it's an anonymous, bloodless block of protein.
I remember seeing a pig carcass being delivered to a butcher as a kid. I ate nothing but bread and milk for a week, then sson realised it was just an burden of being top of the food chain and got over it.
They should have taught the kids how to butcher it to. In this time of mass unemployment, butchery skills are in great demand and butchers are highly paid.
In other news, Reuters journalists suck. "Cull"? My fat thesaurus.
I agree. It's actually important to teach kids about things in their world they don't normally come across but should have some knowledge. Teaching kids where their food comes from is a good thing. We teach science for the same reason.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 17, 2009, 11:00:52 AM
The whole project seems odd. When I was that age we raised butterfly larvae and released them once they turned in to butterflies. We didn't raise livestock and send them off to the slaughterhouse.
Agreed (as someone who experienced killing animals) Let them have their childhood while they can.
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 11:03:34 AMBut 50 years previously most kids would have been involved in or at least seen the slaughter of farm animals.
I don't know about that. You'd have to go in to the 19th century before someone in my family was involved in that.
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:14:21 AM
Agreed (as someone who experienced killing animals) Let them have their childhood while they can.
I guess I fail to see how learning about the world ruins people's childhood. Kids can roll with the punches fairly easily but sheltered adults become disillusioned people.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 17, 2009, 11:15:24 AM
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 11:03:34 AMBut 50 years previously most kids would have been involved in or at least seen the slaughter of farm animals.
I don't know about that. You'd have to go in to the 19th century before someone in my family was involved in that.
She did say most.
Quote from: Valmy on September 17, 2009, 11:16:16 AM
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:14:21 AM
Agreed (as someone who experienced killing animals) Let them have their childhood while they can.
I guess I fail to see how learning about the world ruins people's childhood. Kids can roll with the punches fairly easily but sheltered adults become disillusioned people.
Well my view is that you build a strong adult by giving them security and supporting them as they try new experiences. This strikes me as half baked, non-individual and quite bureaucratic. Good for developing the strength of the one kid who voted against the herd though
Quote from: Valmy on September 17, 2009, 11:17:31 AM
She did say most.
I know. Did most kids in 1950s America slaughter livestock or watch it happen? I don't find that likely, but maybe. But either way I don't think that has much to do with why people eat crappy food these days.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 17, 2009, 11:21:32 AM
I know. Did most kids in 1950s America slaughter livestock or watch it happen? I don't find that likely, but maybe. But either way I don't think that has much to do with why people eat crappy food these days.
Both of my parents did, and my father was a city kid.
But yes I am not sure what that has to do with eating KFC.
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:20:17 AM
This strikes me as half baked, non-individual and quite bureaucratic.
Yeah well it is a school.
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:20:17 AM
Well my view is that you build a strong adult by giving them security and supporting them as they try new experiences. This strikes me as half baked, non-individual and quite bureaucratic. Good for developing the strength of the one kid who voted against the herd though
Yeah, the same classroom democracy that ends up with teddy bears called Mohammed and teachers in jail.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 17, 2009, 11:21:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 17, 2009, 11:17:31 AM
She did say most.
I know. Did most kids in 1950s America slaughter livestock or watch it happen? I don't find that likely, but maybe. But either way I don't think that has much to do with why people eat crappy food these days.
Maybe 60 years ago would be more realistic for the UK. Then kids either lived in the countryside or, like my parents, were evacuated there from cities during the war.
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:20:17 AM
Well my view is that you build a strong adult by giving them security and supporting them as they try new experiences. This strikes me as half baked, non-individual and quite bureaucratic. Good for developing the strength of the one kid who voted against the herd though
Yeah, the same classroom democracy that ends up with teddy bears called Mohammed and teachers in jail.
That classroom democracy was for something that should have been nice - naming a Teddy Bear after one of the kids. The problem with this is that it's putting children in the position of having to make decisions about killing something they've grown fond of.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 17, 2009, 11:00:52 AM
The whole project seems odd. When I was that age we raised butterfly larvae and released them once they turned in to butterflies. We didn't raise livestock and send them off to the slaughterhouse.
My mom used to do a thing like that where she would have her classes raise mealworms and then they'd release the resulting beetles into the woods behind her school.
My brother and I used to always steal some of her beetles to feed our pet chameleon with. :shifty:
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 09:18:36 AM
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 08:38:36 AM
In other news, Reuters journalists suck. "Cull"? My fat thesaurus.
The more I think about this use of the word, the more it pisses me off. Not only is it totally incorrect, I judge that it's being used emotively due to its association with seal culling.
Cull: To heartlessly murder something fluffy.
In American farming, IIRC, culling is something you do for the health of the herd. Normally, killing an animal for meat is slaughter, not culling.
Quote from: Scipio on September 17, 2009, 11:59:43 AM
In American farming, IIRC, culling is something you do for the health of the herd. Normally, killing an animal for meat is slaughter, not culling.
Correct. Like when you eliminate all the cows with foot and mouth disease from a herd... they call that culling.
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:54:41 AM
That classroom democracy was for something that should have been nice - naming a Teddy Bear after one of the kids. The problem with this is that it's putting children in the position of having to make decisions about killing something they've grown fond of.
To be blunt, you are extrapolating something we have not been told. The emotional response to something described as a "farm animal" is probably quite different to that of something described as a "class pet".
I admire the school for the rationality of setting up a program like this, and I applaud the decision to have the kids in control. The number of important lessons regarding economics and the hard nature of personal choices this scheme will create will be of enormous value to the pupils in their adult working lives.
That teacher should be fired. He had a golden opportunity to teach children about the glory of Islam and failed to do so by not killing the lamb in an approved Halal manner.
It's reasons like this that the Muslims hate us.
Heh, that would be cool if PETA and radical Islam allied on this issue. :)
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 12:04:03 PM
Heh, that would be cool if PETA and radical Islam allied on this issue. :)
Actually, while funny, it would also be quite frightening. Both are fanatical enough without being egged on by another party...
Quote from: Strix on September 17, 2009, 12:03:03 PM
That teacher should be fired. He had a golden opportunity to teach children about the glory of Islam and failed to do so by not killing the lamb in an approved Halal manner.
It's reasons like this that the Muslims hate us.
:hide:
Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2009, 08:57:18 AM
I find it fascinating that people can say stuff like this as "fact" and not even (apparently) realize that it is just something that they made up. "Iffy" is the word for it.
There is no evidence that these kids considered this goat as anything but a future source of revenue. They are, after all, running a "farm" and sending animals off to slaughter is what farms do.
There is also no evidence for them not being fond of it either :contract:
Though its never directly said 'it was a pet' things point far more that way than it just being a typical farmed animal.
Quote from: CaligaPrecisely. :)
I would love to see PETA membership stats in terms of urban dwellers vs. rural folks.
Very low. Especially if you're only counting real country folk as opposed to rich city people who moved there.
But then Peta != animal rights.
They're just the visible, popular, hollywood side of it. They could be seen to be a liability to the cause.
Quote from: Strix on September 17, 2009, 12:03:03 PM
That teacher should be fired. He had a golden opportunity to teach children about the glory of Islam and failed to do so by not killing the lamb in an approved Halal manner.
It's reasons like this that the Muslims hate us.
Exactly. They hate us for our freedom, like the ability to vote.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 17, 2009, 11:15:24 AM
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 11:03:34 AMBut 50 years previously most kids would have been involved in or at least seen the slaughter of farm animals.
I don't know about that. You'd have to go in to the 19th century before someone in my family was involved in that.
But 50 years ago they would have seen animals hanging in the butcher shop, not large squares of reddish protein. It's that disconnect that I think B is talking about.
Quote from: Agelastus on September 17, 2009, 12:02:29 PM
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:54:41 AM
That classroom democracy was for something that should have been nice - naming a Teddy Bear after one of the kids. The problem with this is that it's putting children in the position of having to make decisions about killing something they've grown fond of.
To be blunt, you are extrapolating something we have not been told. The emotional response to something described as a "farm animal" is probably quite different to that of something described as a "class pet".
I admire the school for the rationality of setting up a program like this, and I applaud the decision to have the kids in control. The number of important lessons regarding economics and the hard nature of personal choices this scheme will create will be of enormous value to the pupils in their adult working lives.
Some reports say that the children bottle fed it and many regarded it as a pet. Economics can be learned in other ways. Hard decisions too. I don't think it a good lesson for a child to learn that it's OK to kill something you are fond of.
Teachers and kids = right, Commie-faggists = wrong.
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 12:24:56 PM
There is also no evidence for them not being fond of it either :contract:
Though its never directly said 'it was a pet' things point far more that way than it just being a typical farmed animal.
That's called journalistic bent and has very little to do with the actual facts of the case.
Quote from: merithyn on September 17, 2009, 12:41:25 PM
That's called journalistic bent and has very little to do with the actual facts of the case.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/8255125.stm
With video.
You can see them stroking the sheep.
And you know the way kids are. They want any distraction from school and would get very excited about this sort of thing.
The way they voted to get rid of the sheep also sounds very in keeping with childishly simple thinking- 'We get rid of one sheep then we can have some pigs! How cool would that be? Pigs in school!'
I think you're ignoring this part:
Quote
"When we started the farm in spring 2009, the aim was to educate the children in all aspects of farming life and everything that implies," the school said in a statement.
"The children have had a range of opportunities to discuss this issue, both in terms of the food cycle and the ethical aspect... It is important for everyone to move on from this issue, so the children can focus on their education."
The children went into this knowing full well what that lamb was meant for. They were not ignorant of what they were doing. And I've seen plenty of farmers pet animals that later would be given over for Sunday dinner. In addition, I met plenty of 4-H kids at the Iowa State Fair over the years that coddled and loved their animals to bits, and when it was time, turned them over to the butcher. That's what they were intended for, so that's what they did. No trauma, just the fact of that animal's life.
These children quite obviously are not in the least bit squeamish about the job. They're educated, tolerant, and capable little people, these kids, and I think it's a bit unfair to say that they don't know what they're doing or will be traumatized by the events. They seem fine, even if some of you aren't. :P
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:54:41 AM
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:20:17 AM
Well my view is that you build a strong adult by giving them security and supporting them as they try new experiences. This strikes me as half baked, non-individual and quite bureaucratic. Good for developing the strength of the one kid who voted against the herd though
Yeah, the same classroom democracy that ends up with teddy bears called Mohammed and teachers in jail.
That classroom democracy was for something that should have been nice - naming a Teddy Bear after one of the kids. The problem with this is that it's putting children in the position of having to make decisions about killing something they've grown fond of.
they couldn't have been to fond of it if they voted to kill it :lol:
Quote from: HVC on September 17, 2009, 01:12:05 PM
they couldn't have been to fond of it if they voted to kill it :lol:
Sure they cold have. They just happen to be even more fond of doner kebabs. :)
Adults are infinitely more fragile than kids.
Quote from: HVC on September 17, 2009, 01:12:05 PM
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:54:41 AM
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:20:17 AM
Well my view is that you build a strong adult by giving them security and supporting them as they try new experiences. This strikes me as half baked, non-individual and quite bureaucratic. Good for developing the strength of the one kid who voted against the herd though
Yeah, the same classroom democracy that ends up with teddy bears called Mohammed and teachers in jail.
That classroom democracy was for something that should have been nice - naming a Teddy Bear after one of the kids. The problem with this is that it's putting children in the position of having to make decisions about killing something they've grown fond of.
they couldn't have been to fond of it if they voted to kill it :lol:
That's the problem HVC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DbiVx4vvdQ
Quote from: HVC on September 17, 2009, 01:12:05 PM
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:54:41 AM
Quote from: Brazen on September 17, 2009, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:20:17 AM
Well my view is that you build a strong adult by giving them security and supporting them as they try new experiences. This strikes me as half baked, non-individual and quite bureaucratic. Good for developing the strength of the one kid who voted against the herd though
Yeah, the same classroom democracy that ends up with teddy bears called Mohammed and teachers in jail.
That classroom democracy was for something that should have been nice - naming a Teddy Bear after one of the kids. The problem with this is that it's putting children in the position of having to make decisions about killing something they've grown fond of.
they couldn't have been to fond of it if they voted to kill it :lol:
They are a lot like Lenny from Of Mice and Men.
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:20:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 17, 2009, 11:16:16 AM
Quote from: swallow on September 17, 2009, 11:14:21 AM
Agreed (as someone who experienced killing animals) Let them have their childhood while they can.
I guess I fail to see how learning about the world ruins people's childhood. Kids can roll with the punches fairly easily but sheltered adults become disillusioned people.
Well my view is that you build a strong adult by giving them security and supporting them as they try new experiences. This strikes me as half baked, non-individual and quite bureaucratic. Good for developing the strength of the one kid who voted against the herd though
What's wrong with non-individual?