Doesn't this mean global warming has saved us from a return of the ice age which would have destroyed civilization?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32675876/ns/us_news-environment/
QuoteWarming Arctic should be cooling, study finds
Sediment samples, computer simulations track temps back 2,000 years
AP
updated 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The Arctic is warmer than it's been in 2,000 years, according to a new study, even though it should be cooling because of changes in the Earth's orbit that cause the region to get less direct sunlight.
Indeed, the Arctic had been cooling for nearly two millennia before reversing course in the last century and starting to warm as human activities added greenhouse gases to the atmosphere.
"If it hadn't been for the increase in human-produced greenhouse gases, summer temperatures in the Arctic should have cooled gradually over the last century," said Bette Otto-Bliesner, a National Center for Atmospheric Research scientist and co-author of the study on Arctic temperatures that was being published in Friday's edition of the journal Science.
The most recent 10-year interval, 1999-2008, was the warmest of the last 2,000 years in the Arctic, according to the researchers led by Darrell Kaufman, a professor of geology and environmental science at Northern Arizona University.
Study: 2.5 degrees warmer
Summer temperatures in the Arctic averaged 2.5 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than would have been expected if the cooling had continued, the researchers said.
The finding adds fuel to the debate over a House-passed climate bill now pending in the Senate. The administration-backed measure would impose the first limits on greenhouse gases and eventually would lead to an 80 percent reduction by putting a price on each ton of climate-altering pollution.
It is the latest in a drumbeat of reports on warming conditions in the Arctic, including:
* A marine scientist reports that Alaskan waters are turning acidic from absorbing greenhouse gases faster than tropical waters, potentially endangering the state's $4.6 billion fishing industry.
* NASA satellite measurements show that sea ice in the Arctic is more than just shrinking in area, it is dramatically thinning. The volume of older crucial sea ice in the Arctic has shrunk by 57 percent from the winter of 2004 to 2008.
* Global warming effects in Alaska also include shrinking glaciers, coastal erosion and the march north of destructive forest beetles formerly held in check by cold winters.
And with the melting of land-based ice, such as the massive Greenland ice cap, sea levels could rise across the world, threatening millions who live in coastal cities.
The new report is based on a decade-by-decade reconstruction of temperatures over the past 2,000 years developed using information from ancient lake sediments, ice cores, tree rings and other samples. The findings were then compared with complex computer climate model simulations.
Expert: Gases 'overwhelming' system
"This study provides us with a long-term record that reveals how greenhouse gases from human activities are overwhelming the Arctic's natural climate system," commented NCAR scientist David Schneider, a co-author on the study.
"This result is particularly important because the Arctic, perhaps more than any other region on Earth, is facing dramatic impacts from climate change," he added.
Added Jonathan Overpeck, a University of Arizona professor of geosciences: "The Arctic should be very sensitive to human-caused climate change, and our results suggest that indeed it is."
In addition, he pointed out, as the Arctic warms there is less snow and ice to reflect solar energy back into space and the newly exposed dark soil and dark ocean surfaces absorb solar energy and warm further, accelerating the warming process.
The Arctic cooling had been the result of a 21,000-year cycle in the Earth's movement that caused the far north to get progressively less summertime energy from the sun for the last 8,000 years. That process won't reverse for another several thousand years.
The research was funded by the National Science Foundation.
The experts said their research added 1,600 years to the Arctic temperature record, far beyond the 400 years previously available at that level of detail.
© 2009 The Associated Press.
It doesn't matter really. If it warms, cools, or stays the same it is all the fault of Global Warming and ultimately mankind.
I blame Jaron. And America.
Then our work is a success! Promotions all round!
The world may be fucked, but nobody would do anything about it anyway, so why worry?
Tim, master of deductive reasoning.
Yes, this is not the first time I've heard that. Anyway, I've been consistently lobbying for a MASSIVE increase in greenhouse gases. I don't just want to maintain the status quo, I want the tropics to extend to the Canadian border. :)
Quote from: Caliga on September 03, 2009, 04:57:58 PM
Yes, this is not the first time I've heard that. Anyway, I've been consistently lobbying for a MASSIVE increase in greenhouse gases. I don't just want to maintain the status quo, I want the tropics to extend to the Canadian border. :)
AMEN
Dude, I'm serious. ^_^
I don't think all the people bleating about global warming really know for sure it's going to be a disaster of epic proportions like they are saying. I don't see why it'd be bad for Siberia, for example, to be opened up for large scale agriculture. :huh:
The planet has been so hot at various periods in the past that the poles were temperate or even subtropical, and it didn't blow up or anything.
Anyway, we are the masters of this planet and it is our property to do what we want with. :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on September 03, 2009, 04:57:58 PM
Yes, this is not the first time I've heard that. Anyway, I've been consistently lobbying for a MASSIVE increase in greenhouse gases. I don't just want to maintain the status quo, I want the tropics to extend to the Canadian border. :)
I'll fart more.
Waah, I ended a sentence with a preposition. :Embarrass:
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 07:02:49 AM
Waah, I ended a sentence with a preposition. :Embarrass:
For which you shall have to be punished. :bash:
Quote from: Caliga on September 03, 2009, 04:57:58 PM
Yes, this is not the first time I've heard that. Anyway, I've been consistently lobbying for a MASSIVE increase in greenhouse gases. I don't just want to maintain the status quo, I want the tropics to extend to the Canadian border. :)
In such a situation, is it not likely that Kentucky would become rather uncomfortable and dry, being so far inland?
Define 'uncomfortable'. :mellow:
I don't know about the dry bit, and Kentucky isn't THAT far inland (at least not compared to Alberta). It's only an eight hour drive to Charleston, SC. :) But seriously, Gulf weather dominates our summers now, and I'm not sure why that would change.
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 07:33:19 AM
Define 'uncomfortable'. :mellow:
I don't know about the dry bit, and Kentucky isn't THAT far inland (at least not compared to Alberta). It's only an eight hour drive to Charleston, SC. :) But seriously, Gulf weather dominates our summers now, and I'm not sure why that would change.
Because it would take a large increase to make Canada's weather tropical. If Canada has tropical weather, then Kentucky's weather is going to be significantly warmer.
I like hot, humid weather. :)
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 07:43:08 AM
I like hot, humid weather. :)
Move down here, we will kill you of that.
If it gets any hotter here I would probably move. This summer was absolutely brutal. It has been 100F+ almost every day. It was 90F last week and it actually felt cool. You guys think that would be great but trust me it sucks ass.
*shrug* I like it dude.
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 07:55:13 AM
*shrug* I like it dude.
Everybody likes things for a few days. Hey I even like snow for a few days but the problem is when it snows for months on end. Likewise a few days of really hot and humid is fine...but 40 consecutive days of really hot and humid with no rain or no mercy?
Errrr are you forgetting where I live? Kentucky isn't exactly 'mild' in the summer (except for this summer, for some bizarre reason). Believe it or not Philadelphia, where I grew up, often gets extremely hot in the summer as well.
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 07:43:08 AM
I like hot, humid weather. :)
Well, you won't get the humidity, but you will have the heat.
Quote from: Valmy on September 04, 2009, 07:44:56 AM
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 07:43:08 AM
I like hot, humid weather. :)
Move down here, we will kill you of that.
If it gets any hotter here I would probably move. This summer was absolutely brutal. It has been 100F+ almost every day. It was 90F last week and it actually felt cool. You guys think that would be great but trust me it sucks ass.
I hate that weather. We just went through a couple weeks of hot and humid, and I don't like it. Now it's cooler, in the 70s and maybe 80s but dry, perfect New England summer weather. But we and we had a very short summer here weather wise. Once I get used to the warm weather it's hard to start getting into cooler temps, but even so I tend to prefer cooler over hotter.
Well, as long as it's hot, chicks will wear very little clothing. :perv:
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 08:00:05 AM
Errrr are you forgetting where I live? Kentucky isn't exactly 'mild' in the summer (except for this summer, for some bizarre reason). Believe it or not Philadelphia, where I grew up, often gets extremely hot in the summer as well.
We are in the middle of the worst drought since the Great Depression and are experiencing the hottest weather in the recorded history of the American Southwest so I think I can safely laugh at your piddly Philly and Kentucky hotness.
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 08:08:03 AM
Well, as long as it's hot, chicks will wear very little clothing. :perv:
They wear shorts and t-shirts.
I mean granted girls wear those shorty short shorts and that is nice and all.
Since I am a College Freshmen again I am surrounded by 18 year old nubile skinny girls and I suddenly feel very old.
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 08:08:03 AM
Well, as long as it's hot, chicks will wear very little clothing. :perv:
Unlikely. The hot weather and low humidity will result in fewer clouds, which means more sun. Women will start showing very little skin.
:nelson: It's been an extremely rainy summer here. The creek at the base of my property was roaring the other week. :cool:
Quote from: Valmy on September 04, 2009, 08:11:50 AMSince I am a College Freshmen again I am surrounded by 18 year old nubile skinny girls and I suddenly feel very old.
It's like you're Homer Simpson in that episode where we went to college to get an engineering degree. :cool:
Quote from: Valmy on September 04, 2009, 08:10:01 AM
We are in the middle of the worst drought since the Great Depression and are experiencing the hottest weather in the recorded history of the American Southwest so I think I can safely laugh at your piddly Philly and Kentucky hotness.
:blink: Philly and the Bucks-Montgomery-Chester area in general had at least three droughts severe enough to warrant water rationing throughout the 90s. Also, 96 and humid being bounced off the concrete jungle in Center City absolutely
sucks.
Quote from: Valmy on September 04, 2009, 08:10:01 AM
Quote from: Caliga on September 04, 2009, 08:00:05 AM
Errrr are you forgetting where I live? Kentucky isn't exactly 'mild' in the summer (except for this summer, for some bizarre reason). Believe it or not Philadelphia, where I grew up, often gets extremely hot in the summer as well.
We are in the middle of the worst drought since the Great Depression and are experiencing the hottest weather in the recorded history of the American Southwest so I think I can safely laugh at your piddly Philly and Kentucky hotness.
California is in drought too, and some of its great agricultural areas are suffering. How come the US doesn't any, or many, desalination plants? Saudis use them, I'd think we would also, at least for agriculture or something.
Quote from: KRonn on September 04, 2009, 08:50:51 AM
California is in drought too, and some of its great agricultural areas are suffering. How come the US doesn't any, or many, desalination plants? Saudis use them, I'd think we would also, at least for agriculture or something.
:blink: Especially in coastal areas- I'm not sure about west coast, but over here, coastal preservation is a huge political card, and if you're pumping coastal waters, it could slow dune erosion...
Because they are really expensive.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 04, 2009, 08:41:26 AM
:blink: Philly and the Bucks-Montgomery-Chester area in general had at least three droughts severe enough to warrant water rationing throughout the 90s. Also, 96 and humid being bounced off the concrete jungle in Center City absolutely sucks.
Yeah? Well try 106 and humid sometimes.
I am: not impressed with your Yankee summers.
Dude, chill out. It gets above 100 almost every year in Philly, and it gets above 100 every year (except for this one) in Kentucky, and both places are extremely humid year-round.
Also, I should mention that I've been to Houston four times, all in June, and it was at least 95 most days I was there if not hotter.
Texas is hell. You got lucky. I locked myself away indoors for half the year when I lived in Houston. Fucking 105 percent humidity.
I work with a dude who grew up in Rhode Island but lived in Houston for three years before he moved here. He didn't complain about the heat/humidity so much as the crime, traffic, and constant flooding. One time he had to 'rescue' his wife from the high-rise she worked in downtown because there was so much flooding normal cars couldn't move around, but he happened to have a 4WD truck jacked up on monster tires. :cool:
Quote from: Valmy on September 04, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 04, 2009, 08:41:26 AM
:blink: Philly and the Bucks-Montgomery-Chester area in general had at least three droughts severe enough to warrant water rationing throughout the 90s. Also, 96 and humid being bounced off the concrete jungle in Center City absolutely sucks.
Yeah? Well try 106 and humid sometimes.
I am: not impressed with your Yankee summers.
It's like that here. It's always fucking humid.