Poll
Question:
Should children be taught to write in cursive?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 19
Option 2: No
votes: 10
In the United States writing in cursive isn't part of the Common Core standards; however it is still mandated in about 15 states. I'm curious what the forum thinks: cursive or no cursive for the youth of today?
The poll comes because the focus of this quarter's The Henry Ford Magazine (magazine of The Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village) is about typography. One of the articles is about cursive. A common argument for learning cursive (in the United States) is so that children can read The Declaration of Independence and other historical documents. The problem with that is that, even if you do know cursive, The Declaration of Independence is hard to read. The style of cursive has changed over time (and for different uses too; the author made the case that an expert in handwriting in, say, monasteries in the 14th century wouldn't be able to read the script used in castles.) Some of the changes he noted I found amusing.
The common Roman script (the basis for our Times New Roman type face) was thought to be too "Pagan" by early Christians so they developed something called Uncial.
One of the most widespread cursive styles in the United States in the 19th Century was Specerian, developed by Platt Rogers Spencer (the script used for Coca-Cola). The one I was taught, Palmer script, was developed because Austin Palmer thought Spencerian looked too feminine.
What's the alternative to cursive if you want to write with pen on paper? :huh:
I don't really see a downside to teaching it outside of the time it takes. At least get them to the point where they can sign their name.
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2017, 03:36:54 PM
What's the alternative to cursive if you want to write with pen on paper? :huh:
Printing:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fatto.buffalo.edu%2Fregistered%2FATBasics%2FCurriculum%2FWriting%2Fimages%2Fscript.gif&hash=5c0cba9b4ed22757e3b99c84fa1f3453272de0f8)
Printing is on the left, cursive on the right.
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2017, 03:36:54 PM
What's the alternative to cursive if you want to write with pen on paper? :huh:
Print letters. The increased legibility more than makes up for the slower writing speed.
Isn't printing letters much, much slower? And how are you supposed to take notes when you're writing so slow?
As long as your handwritten, scripted, cursive signature is recognized as a legal device, people will have to learn it.
Once again, it's time for the knuckledragging mouthbreathing niggerhaters to blame the schools, but not the lawyers.
Should still be taught since people still use it.
I was taught to write in cursive at school but my calligraphy sucked (and sucks) so much that I switched to print during my teenage years. I'm much more legible that way.
Get rid of it. Replace the time spent in elementary school learning such a useless skill with an earlier start on a foreign language.
Is there some technique that you people use to print letters quickly? Because I'm slow as fuck with that, and only do it when the forms I'm filling out are telling me to do it. I can't imagine how it can be a practical way to write quickly. And if I have all the time in the world to write something, then I may as well type it up.
Optionally as an art or a craft, sure. It's a form of calligraphy anymore.
Yes for the speed.
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2017, 04:28:38 PM
Is there some technique that you people use to print letters quickly?
Paging Dr. Gutenberg.
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2017, 04:28:38 PM
Is there some technique that you people use to print letters quickly? Because I'm slow as fuck with that, and only do it when the forms I'm filling out are telling me to do it. I can't imagine how it can be a practical way to write quickly. And if I have all the time in the world to write something, then I may as well type it up.
Stop printing all your shit backwards then, Vasili.
It's useful enough that it warrants some time being spent on it, but it's no longer worth excessive amounts of time or concern about legibility. With the ubiquity of computers / laptops it's a far less useful skill than it used to be.
Except for signatures I don't think I've used cursive since elementary school. In high school and college/university we had to write in print to legible. So it would probably be time better spent on learning things like typing if you want to stay on the same theme.
For the purposes of this vote I went with no. That being said, school spends a bunch of time teaching useless things, so whatever
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2017, 04:28:38 PM
Is there some technique that you people use to print letters quickly? Because I'm slow as fuck with that, and only do it when the forms I'm filling out are telling me to do it. I can't imagine how it can be a practical way to write quickly. And if I have all the time in the world to write something, then I may as well type it up.
My general writing is sort of a blend of the two, though more on printing side.
I use runes.
We were taught joined up writing towards the end of junior school.
At senior school we were quickly told to stop doing it.
I guess because it is harder for the teachers to read.
So no. A bit useless.
As a lefty, I hate cursive. Half of the letters have weird loops that fuck with my mind & I've stop using most of them.
Yes, it should be taught in school. Learning to take fast note is important.
Cursive is mandatory in Hong Kong. No strong opinion as it is a tradeoff between speed and readability. But either way most people now use a computer to type and print documents.
This was one of the many cultural shocks I had in Canada. When I was a kid, I was told that everybody in the English speaking world used cursive, and we all had to grow up and learn it. We spent a lot of time and money buying piles and piles of practice books and going through them. Then I was very surprised that some Canadians didn't use cursive and expressed difficulty in reading mine. At first I thought it was because my English wasn't good enough and/or my handwriting was horrible. It took many tries for me to figure out that some of them didn't learn cursive. My teachers lied to me :lol:
If you print your name, I know you are goddamn millinial and you should be sent to a work camp.
Cursive and touch-typing are about equal in my book. I teach AP courses and college courses and grade AP essays and can guarantee that good penmanship beats good thinking about eight times out of ten in an academic setting. I think students that can print legibly fast or hunt-and-peck fast (like me) suffer no disadvantage from poor penmanship or poor touch-typing ability.
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2017, 06:00:02 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2017, 04:28:38 PM
Is there some technique that you people use to print letters quickly? Because I'm slow as fuck with that, and only do it when the forms I'm filling out are telling me to do it. I can't imagine how it can be a practical way to write quickly. And if I have all the time in the world to write something, then I may as well type it up.
My general writing is sort of a blend of the two, though more on printing side.
Same here.
Quote from: Savonarola on July 30, 2017, 03:33:24 PMA common argument for learning cursive (in the United States) is so that children can read The Declaration of Independence and other historical documents.
That's a silly argument. The important thing about the Declaration of Independence are the ideas it spells out, not the original handwritten copy.
As I understand it, the argument against learning cursive isn't that printing is easier to read, but rather that everyone is going to be typing notes anyways.
I'm probably quite atypical due to my career, but I couldn't survive without cursive writing. I have to take copious notes in the midst of direct examination and cross. There no possible chance I could be pecking away at a laptop as I go.
Quote from: celedhring on July 30, 2017, 04:01:13 PM
I was taught to write in cursive at school but my calligraphy sucked (and sucks) so much that I switched to print during my teenage years. I'm much more legible that way.
Yeah, same with me. I have atrocious hand-writing stemming from extremely poor motor control.
Quote from: Barrister on July 31, 2017, 12:07:56 AM
As I understand it, the argument against learning cursive isn't that printing is easier to read, but rather that everyone is going to be typing notes anyways.
I'm probably quite atypical due to my career, but I couldn't survive without cursive writing. I have to take copious notes in the midst of direct examination and cross. There no possible chance I could be pecking away at a laptop as I go.
So basically you just need to learn to type.
He can't do dramatic walking round the courtroom if he's tethered to his computer.
Nor in pleats.
I think kids these days curse enough as it is, they don't need help with that.
Quote from: Syt on July 31, 2017, 02:14:29 AM
I think kids these days curse enough as it is, they don't need help with that.
We all curse. I don't think the latest generation curse more than the previous generations.
YOU'RE RUINING THE JOKE
FUCKING AUTISTIC ASS ASIANS
Quote from: Tyr on July 30, 2017, 06:22:46 PM
We were taught joined up writing towards the end of junior school.
At senior school we were quickly told to stop doing it.
I guess because it is harder for the teachers to read.
So no. A bit useless.
Strange school.
Although I must admit I could be biased here by the small sample size of schools involved in my own education, that's the opposite to my experience. Once you learned "joined-up" writing you were never discouraged from using it, not at School or University.
Good thing too - essays at school were often defined by the number of A4 sides to use, and I used to write at something like 600-650 words to the page*. I couldn't have written speedily enough using printing; it's simply faster when you're minimising the number of times the pen leaves the page.
*Very small writing - 18-20 words to the line; my joined-up writing was not slanted or sprawling due to the odd way I hold my pen (described as being held "like a left handed person in their right hand".)