40 years of wasted progress. <_<
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/20/census-young-men-are-making-much-less-than-they-did-in-1975/?utm_term=.f6e54411195a#comments
QuoteThe average millennial worker makes less than the average baby boomer did in 1975
By Max Ehrenfreund
April 20
The United States has enjoyed extraordinary economic progress over the past four decades, but average incomes for today's young workers are lower than they were in 1975.
Over the past four decades, young American workers saw their average incomes decline by 5.5 percent after adjusting for inflation, according to new figures published Wednesday by the U.S. Census Bureau. In 1975, workers aged 25 to 34 had a median personal income of $37,000 in modern dollar terms. In 2016, that number was down to $35,000.
Earnings have declined despite the fact that today's young people are better educated than 40 years ago. Thirty-seven percent of young people had a bachelor's degree last year, compared to 22.8 percent in 1975.
In part, experts say, the decline in average incomes results from new impediments to financial success that confront millennials, but that older Americans did not have to overcome. A more unequal economy presents fewer opportunities for younger workers. Young people today must compete with a well educated labor force, while young people in the past often had an advantage over older workers who were less qualified.
In another sense, the decline represents progress, because it is partly a result of striking gains among young women. Young women have joined the workforce in high numbers, but because they still earn less than young men, their entrance has driven down the average for young workers in general. In 1975, just under half of women aged 25 to 34 were working, and only 18.4 percent had at least a bachelor's degree. In 2016, about 70 percent of women between those ages were employed, and 40 percent had at least a bachelor's degree.
The typical income for a young woman in the labor force increased 28.5 percent since 1975, from $23,000 to $29,000 in 2015 dollars.
Meanwhile, young men's earnings have declined. For a man in the labor force aged 25 to 34, the typical income declined from $46,000 in 1975 to $40,000 last year.
Young men are also more educated — 34 percent now have a bachelor's degree, compared to 27.4 percent of their counterparts 40 years ago. Last year, roughly 5 in 6 were working and two-thirds had full-time, year-round jobs, figures that have changed little since 1975.
"It's hard to say that there's one experience for young adults that's capturing how they're all doing," said the Census's Jonathan Vespa, the author of the report.
The stagnant fortunes of young people comes amid broad overall gains for the American since 1975. Median personal income for all Americans has increased from about $23,000 in 1975 to $30,000 today in 2015 dollars. (Those figures include many retirees and students.)
Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics on those with full-time, year-round work confirms the negative trend for the young. Typical weekly earnings for workers aged 25 to 34 in this category have declined 4 percent between 1979 and last year after adjusting for inflation, according to Arloc Sherman, a researcher at the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.
Gary Burtless, an economist at the nonpartisan Brookings Institution, suggested a few explanations for the disappointing data for young people. The level of education in the American labor force was rapidly increasing in 1975. While it was typical for older workers at that time not to have completed high school, a new generation — the baby boomers — had received what Americans now think of as a standard education, including a high-school diploma and increasingly a bachelor's degree.
As a result, young people could claim more of the fruits of the American economy then. "Compared to older workers, back then, they at least had a couple of very strong advantages," Burtless said. "Those advantages are smaller for young adults today."
At the same time, he said, inequality of income has increased in general in the American economy, meaning that poorer workers — many of whom are younger — have not enjoyed the same progress as more affluent workers, who tend to be older.
"It's a big problem, even for people with college credentials," he said. "Those less educated people have fared quite miserably."
How have business profits developed during this timeframe?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa-all right?
It's not all bad news. Cost of living has gone way up too... oh wait.
I don't understand the wasted progress part.
In 1975, a worker who earned US$37k could buy a basket of goods. Say, black and white TV, land line telephone, a 70s car, etc.
In 2016, a worker who earned US$35k could buy another basket of goods. Say, iphone, laptop, internet connection, etc.
It seems to me that a 2016 worker would derive more happiness from the 2016 basket of goods than the 1975 basket of goods. Despite the apparent fall in income. So that's progress. Right? :unsure:
Quote from: HVC on May 14, 2017, 10:56:15 PM
It's not all bad news. Cost of living has gone way up too... oh wait.
Cost of living has not "gone way up" in 2015 dollars.
Quality of many goods certainly has (while others have arguably gone down) but that cannot be captured in studies like this.
Young people suck
Quote from: Monoriu on May 15, 2017, 08:26:47 AM
I don't understand the wasted progress part.
In 1975, a worker who earned US$37k could buy a basket of goods. Say, black and white TV, land line telephone, a 70s car, etc.
In 2016, a worker who earned US$35k could buy another basket of goods. Say, iphone, laptop, internet connection, etc.
It seems to me that a 2016 worker would derive more happiness from the 2016 basket of goods than the 1975 basket of goods. Despite the apparent fall in income. So that's progress. Right? :unsure:
Yeah--I was going to post an anti Tim rant, but thought it would be too mean. New year, new me, or something.
They may not make as much money, but at least they have that shelf full of participation trophies & medals to gaze upon.
LOL, bitching about wages. Suckers.
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 11:14:20 AM
They may not make as much money, but at least they have that shelf full of participation trophies & medals to gaze upon.
Are those really given to anybody but the real little kids? I don't think adults really care about stuff they got when they were six.
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 11:14:20 AM
They may not make as much money, but at least they have that shelf full of participation trophies & medals to gaze upon.
Someone's jealous.
Quote from: Valmy on May 15, 2017, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 11:14:20 AM
They may not make as much money, but at least they have that shelf full of participation trophies & medals to gaze upon.
Are those really given to anybody but the real little kids? I don't think adults really care about stuff they got when they were six.
Dude, you need to translate derdogwhistles.
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 11:14:20 AM
They may not make as much money, but at least they have that shelf full of participation trophies & medals to gaze upon.
Hey it was you Gen - Xers and Boomers giving away those prizes.
Would be interesting to see what share of national income goes to the age group 25-34 now and in 1975 (normalized with their current share of the entire population compared to 1975).
Quote from: HVC on May 15, 2017, 12:07:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 11:14:20 AM
They may not make as much money, but at least they have that shelf full of participation trophies & medals to gaze upon.
Hey it was you Gen - Xers and Boomers giving away those prizes.
Not me. I and other parents my age are correcting that mistake.
I think my family dodged a couple bullets by skipping the Boomer and Millennial generations.
The Boomers were the parents when I was a kid and I do not recall any participation awards after I was a real little kid.
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 12:55:48 PM
Not me. I and other parents my age are correcting that mistake.
I think my family dodged a couple bullets by skipping the Boomer and Millennial generations.
Over-correcting the mistake IMO. The whole self-congratulatory style is a poor trade for the bullets you missed.
Darkies got free stuff. To derniggerhater, that counts.
Quote from: Valmy on May 15, 2017, 01:00:46 PM
The Boomers were the parents when I was a kid and I do not recall any participation awards after I was a real little kid.
Spicey's family invented the fake news about the ubiquity of participation awards so they could justify their self-satisfaction.
The Boomers can be blamed for a lot of things but they GenXers are responsible for universal participation trophies.
Reaganomics!
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 15, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
The Boomers can be blamed for a lot of things but they GenXers are responsible for universal participation trophies.
You mean the Latchkey Kids that grew up with self-obsessed "Greed is Good" careerist parents that used them as pawns in
Kramer v Kramer divorces? Shocked there would be overcompensation.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 15, 2017, 01:42:03 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 15, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
The Boomers can be blamed for a lot of things but they GenXers are responsible for universal participation trophies.
You mean the Latchkey Kids that grew up with self-obsessed "Greed is Good" careerist parents that used them as pawns in Kramer v Kramer divorces? Shocked there would be overcompensation.
When you are right, you are right.
Quote from: grumbler on May 15, 2017, 01:03:03 PM
Over-correcting the mistake IMO. The whole self-congratulatory style is a poor trade for the bullets you missed.
Yeah no kidding. I mean I thought I owned self-congratulatory smugness here on Languish, what with the Canadian + Danish + Leftist triple whammy, but Spicy has pretty much surpassed me at this point.
We should get him a trophy or something....
Damn I was just defending my generations' parents I didn't mean to start the dogpile :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on May 15, 2017, 02:03:38 PM
Damn I was just defending my generations' parents I didn't mean to start the dogpile :lol:
Here, have some Adderall.
Quote from: grumbler on May 15, 2017, 01:03:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 12:55:48 PM
Not me. I and other parents my age are correcting that mistake.
I think my family dodged a couple bullets by skipping the Boomer and Millennial generations.
Over-correcting the mistake IMO. The whole self-congratulatory style is a poor trade for the bullets you missed.
Explain how we're overcorrecting the mistake.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 15, 2017, 01:03:38 PM
Darkies got free stuff. To derniggerhater, that counts.
Oh, that's the "dog whistle" you were talking about.
Swing and a miss!
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 03:03:35 PM
Explain how we're overcorrecting the mistake.
Explain how you're correcting the mistake.
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 03:04:46 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 15, 2017, 01:03:38 PM
Darkies got free stuff. To derniggerhater, that counts.
Oh, that's the "dog whistle" you were talking about.
Swing and a miss!
Stop dragging your ass across the carpet, Hunter.
Quote from: Jacob on May 15, 2017, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 03:03:35 PM
Explain how we're overcorrecting the mistake.
Explain how you're correcting the mistake.
By making sure my kids receive praise and awards for actual accomplishments, and not just for participating.
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 15, 2017, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 03:03:35 PM
Explain how we're overcorrecting the mistake.
Explain how you're correcting the mistake.
By making sure my kids receive praise and awards for actual accomplishments, and not just for participating.
But that isn't different from what everyone else is doing.
This is a fake problem created to justify a feeling of smug superiority. It says a lot more about people preening about how hard ass they imagine themselves to be more than it does about kids.
This is just tailor made for the "Everything worth knowing I learned from Rush and Sean" crowd. It is right up there with the war on Christmas.
Stagnant wages, student loan debt, soaring home prices have nothing to do with young people not buying homes, it is because they eat too much guacamole.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_4vLp_WsAE4zjo.jpg)
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 03:46:58 PM
By making sure my kids receive praise and awards for actual accomplishments, and not just for participating.
"Little boys can be doctors, little girls should be nurses."
Quote from: Berkut on May 15, 2017, 03:49:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 15, 2017, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 03:03:35 PM
Explain how we're overcorrecting the mistake.
Explain how you're correcting the mistake.
By making sure my kids receive praise and awards for actual accomplishments, and not just for participating.
But that isn't different from what everyone else is doing.
This is a fake problem created to justify a feeling of smug superiority. It says a lot more about people preening about how hard ass they imagine themselves to be more than it does about kids.
This is just tailor made for the "Everything worth knowing I learned from Rush and Sean" crowd. It is right up there with the war on Christmas.
No.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 15, 2017, 04:20:37 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 15, 2017, 03:46:58 PM
By making sure my kids receive praise and awards for actual accomplishments, and not just for participating.
"Little boys can be doctors, little girls should be nurses."
Nursing is a noble profession.
Quote from: sbr on May 15, 2017, 04:10:24 PM
Stagnant wages, student loan debt, soaring home prices have nothing to do with young people not buying homes, it is because they eat too much guacamole.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_4vLp_WsAE4zjo.jpg)
I don't agree with Gurner, but isn't this rather deliberately missing his point? :lol:
What he's saying is something like 'young folks today spend money on frivolous and expensive luxuries, rather than going without - when I was young, I went without, and saved my cash to invest in real estate'.
In short, the same successful old person rant that has been ranted since antiquity.
The exact source of the luxurious spending - be it guacamole or coffee - isn't really the issue. :D
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 15, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
The Boomers can be blamed for a lot of things but they GenXers are responsible for universal participation trophies.
And you don't suffer from self esteem issues, right? So you're welcome.
:P
When I was in college (in the early 90s) there was some study out that American children were considerably more likely than their Japanese counterparts to say that they were "Good at math" while, of course, the Japanese scored much higher on standardized tests. So I think that American over-inflated sense of self-worth is much older than participation trophies.
Quote from: Monoriu on May 15, 2017, 08:26:47 AM
In 1975, a worker who earned US$37k could buy a basket of goods. Say, black and white TV, land line telephone, a 70s car, etc.
In 1975, I was making about $5 a week in the summer mowing lawns, and I could afford a color TV; I don't think someone making $37K then would be limited to a black and white TV And in 1975's America, you didn't own a phone--you leased it from AT&T.
I don't disagree with the point you're making, that the products we can buy today are better than the products we had available in 1975 (in general, there are some exceptions), but those weren't good examples. And a higher quality of goods being available doesn't offset having a lower income and having to spend a higher percentage of what income you do have on basic necessities.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67.tinypic.com%2F118i1hk.jpg&hash=c1840b0d937e2cc531c3a29b730b331162159288)
Quote from: dps on May 15, 2017, 06:07:45 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on May 15, 2017, 08:26:47 AM
In 1975, a worker who earned US$37k could buy a basket of goods. Say, black and white TV, land line telephone, a 70s car, etc.
In 1975, I was making about $5 a week in the summer mowing lawns, and I could afford a color TV; I don't think someone making $37K then would be limited to a black and white TV And in 1975's America, you didn't own a phone--you leased it from AT&T.
I don't disagree with the point you're making, that the products we can buy today are better than the products we had available in 1975 (in general, there are some exceptions), but those weren't good examples. And a higher quality of goods being available doesn't offset having a lower income and having to spend a higher percentage of what income you do have on basic necessities.
No argument from me about better examples. But I'd like to also point out that people generally don't care how they compare with the previous generation about the quality of goods they are getting. What they really care about is how they are doing compared with their peers. They'll be fine if everybody is watching black and white TV. If one guy is watching 4k TV, and the rest are still on black and white, then you've got a problem.
You were lucky!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo)
:lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 15, 2017, 08:39:25 AM
Young people suck
That is why you have spent so much of your life chasing after them.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 15, 2017, 10:23:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 15, 2017, 08:39:25 AM
Young people suck
That is why you have spent so much of your life chasing after them.
It's right there in his post :P
Ed watches all his Girls Gone Wild videos backwards, so it looks like the girls learn a valuable lesson.
[spoiler]Thank you, Dave Atell.[/spoiler]
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 15, 2017, 10:57:07 PM
Ed watches all his Girls Gone Wild videos backwards, so it looks like the girls learn a valuable lesson.
[spoiler]Thank you, Dave Atell.[/spoiler]
Yeah. :lol:
Quote from: Savonarola on May 15, 2017, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 15, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
The Boomers can be blamed for a lot of things but they GenXers are responsible for universal participation trophies.
And you don't suffer from self esteem issues, right? So you're welcome.
:P
When I was in college (in the early 90s) there was some study out that American children were considerably more likely than their Japanese counterparts to say that they were "Good at math" while, of course, the Japanese scored much higher on standardized tests. So I think that American over-inflated sense of self-worth is much older than participation trophies.
Indeed, my parents are boomers. ;)
The Japanese economy then collapsed and was then weighed down by government policies at odds with reality. I guess self esteem > standardized test scores.
Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2017, 10:49:09 AM
The Japanese economy then collapsed and was then weighed down by government policies at odds with reality. I guess self esteem > standardized test scores.
Comparing shame-based cultures with pride-base cultures is going to give these subjective results no matter what is objectively true.
Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2017, 10:49:09 AM
The Japanese economy then collapsed and was then weighed down by government policies at odds with reality. I guess self esteem > standardized test scores.
Take that nerds! Hubris FTW!
False confidence can take you far Sav. Look at our President. But then Abe is sort buffoonish as well but I think we have taken it to a whole new level.
Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2017, 01:34:20 PM
False confidence can take you far Sav. Look at our President. But then Abe is sort buffoonish as well but I think we have taken it to a whole new level.
Trump may have benefited from getting participation trophies and being told that "Everyone is a winner." He seems to believe that everyone else is a loser and behaves accordingly. Once again the Gen-Xers were right all along.
;)
Thinking it over, though, in the light of the Trump presidency, the problem might be the opposite of participation trophies. There have been cases of parents fighting at little league games and Geno Auriemma (head coach of UConn's women's basketball) just had a long complaint about selfish student athletes. That could be just a few isolated examples, and a coach longing for the good old days; if not, though it would point to what's being taught is the opposite message of what youth athletics is supposed to teach. Rather than the value of sportsmanship and teamwork, winning takes precedence over everything and the individual accomplishment is all that matters.
Go search for the 60 Minutes piece on how the latest jock parent craze has been holding their kids back from entering Kindergarten or 1st grade in order to give them an athletic advantage over classmates once they hit puberty a year earlier.
Parents have been out of the "participation trophy" biz for a while. But Dumbfuckistanis like to perpetuate it, all part of the "Welfare Queen" theme.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2017, 02:34:31 PM
Go search for the 60 Minutes piece on how the latest jock parent craze has been holding their kids back from entering Kindergarten or 1st grade in order to give them an athletic advantage over classmates once they hit puberty a year earlier.
Parents have been out of the "participation trophy" biz for a while. But Dumbfuckistanis like to perpetuate it, all part of the "Welfare Queen" theme.
Now that is hilarious. Also explains those freakish 6'5 freshman linemen in hi school football.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 17, 2017, 07:33:38 PM
Now that is hilarious. Also explains those freakish 6'5 freshman linemen in hi school football.
It's a real thing, especially in the more affluent classes. My brother-in-law's brother did it. Total jockhead. I hope they go all Marinovich on him.
Here it is: "Redshirting"
https://youtu.be/HtEsw49o4RY
Bigger, stronger, faster: How redshirting is changing H.S. sports
http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/how_redshirting_is_changing_hs_sports.html
The soccercunt in the first minutes of the 60 Minutes piece just makes you want to pass out more abortions.
I could only take 3 minutes of that. :blurgh:
Christ.
Yeah, for all the bitching and moaning about "participation trophies" and all that other touchy-feely bullshit, that fucking generation has come and gone for a while now, just used as code for "whaaa darkies got free shit and I didn't" by derdogwhistlers.
Now parenting is all knife fights and the pool cue scene from The Dark Knight. TRYOUTS
Girls soccer games are blood sports. Not a joke. The blood starts in the stands.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2017, 02:34:31 PM
Go search for the 60 Minutes piece on how the latest jock parent craze has been holding their kids back from entering Kindergarten or 1st grade in order to give them an athletic advantage over classmates once they hit puberty a year earlier.
I know a few parents that have done it. In most cases, their kid was short for his age group and they hoped he'd be closer to the average or median height if they held him back a year. Nope, still short.
QuoteParents have been out of the "participation trophy" bit for a while.
I wish my kid's basketball league had gotten that memo.
QuoteBut Dumbfuckistanis like to perpetuate it, all part of the "Welfare Queen" theme.
No idea how you're making that connection.
Quote from: derspiess on May 17, 2017, 10:51:46 PM
No idea how you're making that connection.
Because everything you believe, say or do springs from your great hatred of black people, according to SeedyVision.
Or is a cover for same.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 18, 2017, 01:02:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 17, 2017, 10:51:46 PM
No idea how you're making that connection.
Because everything you believe, say or do springs from your great hatred of black people, according to SeedyVision.
That's really unfair. There are plenty of things that derspeiss says, believes and does that have nothing to do with his hatred for black people.
They have to do with his misogyny. :contract:
:lol:
I know your heart is in the right place Spicey, as evidenced by being a fan of another Big 12 school.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 17, 2017, 08:17:40 PM
Girls soccer games are blood sports. Not a joke. The blood starts in the stands.
The blood is coming out of their wherevers.
Quote from: alfred russel on May 18, 2017, 04:55:49 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 17, 2017, 08:17:40 PM
Girls soccer games are blood sports. Not a joke. The blood starts in the stands.
The blood is coming out of their wherevers.
What the fuck? I've run across misogyny before, but seldom such blatant misogyny. Take a timeout.
Gross.
Quote from: grumbler on May 18, 2017, 07:39:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 18, 2017, 04:55:49 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 17, 2017, 08:17:40 PM
Girls soccer games are blood sports. Not a joke. The blood starts in the stands.
The blood is coming out of their wherevers.
What the fuck? I've run across misogyny before, but seldom such blatant misogyny. Take a timeout.
Don't be so harsh, one day he could become president.
Quote from: grumbler on May 18, 2017, 07:39:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 18, 2017, 04:55:49 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 17, 2017, 08:17:40 PM
Girls soccer games are blood sports. Not a joke. The blood starts in the stands.
The blood is coming out of their wherevers.
What the fuck? I've run across misogyny before, but seldom such blatant misogyny. Take a timeout.
Even in your years in the Navy? :huh:
Quote from: grumbler on May 18, 2017, 07:39:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 18, 2017, 04:55:49 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 17, 2017, 08:17:40 PM
Girls soccer games are blood sports. Not a joke. The blood starts in the stands.
The blood is coming out of their wherevers.
What the fuck? I've run across misogyny before, but seldom such blatant misogyny. Take a timeout.
Why, talk like that gets you elected Pussygrabber-In-Chief.