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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: The Brain on October 20, 2016, 03:48:52 PM

Title: Learning a new language?
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2016, 03:48:52 PM
I'm toying with the idea of starting a long-term project: learning Japanese. What is a good way to do this without living in Japan or taking classes? Is there a get good quick scheme for learning a new language that actually works? Do people have experience with any teach yourself packages and stuff (regardless of language)?

Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Razgovory on October 20, 2016, 03:52:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 20, 2016, 03:48:52 PM
I'm toying with the idea of starting a long-term project: learning Japanese. What is a good way to do this without living in Japan or taking classes? Is there a get good quick scheme for learning a new language that actually works? Do people have experience with any teach yourself packages and stuff (regardless of language)?

Duolingo is free and fairly useful.  Maybe talk to Lettow, he learned Japanese.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Monoriu on October 20, 2016, 03:54:07 PM
Watch a few thousand anime episodes  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2016, 04:00:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 20, 2016, 03:52:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 20, 2016, 03:48:52 PM
I'm toying with the idea of starting a long-term project: learning Japanese. What is a good way to do this without living in Japan or taking classes? Is there a get good quick scheme for learning a new language that actually works? Do people have experience with any teach yourself packages and stuff (regardless of language)?

Duolingo is free and fairly useful.  Maybe talk to Lettow, he learned Japanese.

Duolingo looks interesting (thanks) but doesn't seem to do Japanese. :(
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2016, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 20, 2016, 03:54:07 PM
Watch a few thousand anime episodes  :ph34r:

Death before dishonor.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: LaCroix on October 20, 2016, 04:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 20, 2016, 03:54:07 PM
Watch a few thousand anime episodes  :ph34r:

the lettow method :)
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Jacob on October 20, 2016, 04:07:31 PM
Without taking formal classes or moving to the country in question:

1) Get some of the audio-learning courses: Pimsleur/ Rosetta Stone/ Duolingo etc

2) Get some text books and use those for self study.

3) Consume media in the language in question.

4) Engage in language exchanges with people who speak that language (might be hard to do in Sweden?)

5) Visit the country on vacation - ideally on an immersive language learning tour.

6) Get a significant other who's a native of that country.

... I would consider taking some formal classes, though, especially at the beginning.

Japanese is pretty good in that there's a lot of "fun self-study" type material around - at least for Japanese and English.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2016, 04:15:50 PM
Thanks, Jacob. Classrooms give me a rash, but at least I should force myself to check out which classes are available. Maybe I'll come around.

I plan to take another trip to Japan (have been once in 2014), but have still to decide when and how and stuff.

I shall watch more samurai movies for science.

Is the chick from Shogun available and the same age as in 1980?
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 20, 2016, 04:20:16 PM
Jacob has some good hints, I believe the Brain should be able to find some Japanese language exchange/tandem in Stockholm. The Swedish capital should or could have some Japanese expats or students. Formal classes can vary a lot in quality and are tough after a day's work yes. Just avoid those filled by anime nerds, goes without saying though.

Massive online open courses can help too (MOOC). Generally free. There is one to learn Japanese for Anglo native speakers for instance: https://www.mooc-list.com/course/japanese-wma (https://www.mooc-list.com/course/japanese-wma)

The Japanese offer their own there, I saw some courses to learn Japanese during the summer so they are over. More to come soon I guess. To be checked regularly.

http://www.jmooc.jp/en/about/ (http://www.jmooc.jp/en/about/)

https://learnbox.in/course/introduction-japanese-language-culture/ (https://learnbox.in/course/introduction-japanese-language-culture/)

PS: Watch all Samurai AND Japanese ninja movies too.



Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Jacob on October 20, 2016, 04:42:57 PM
The one thing with using samurai and ninja movies... the Japanese they speak is not necessarily modern conversational Japanese.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 20, 2016, 04:50:56 PM
I've been warned several times by Japanese speakers that if you try to pick it up by watching movies, keep in mind that men and women tend to speak differently.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Jacob on October 20, 2016, 05:15:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 20, 2016, 04:50:56 PM
I've been warned several times by Japanese speakers that if you try to pick it up by watching movies, keep in mind that men and women tend to speak differently.

Yeah for sure. My friend - who eventually ended up settling in Japan permanently - made a specific point to develop friendships with Japanese guys in Vancouver to help avoid the "pervy white dude talking like a girl" syndrome.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: mongers on October 20, 2016, 05:56:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 20, 2016, 05:15:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 20, 2016, 04:50:56 PM
I've been warned several times by Japanese speakers that if you try to pick it up by watching movies, keep in mind that men and women tend to speak differently.

Yeah for sure. My friend - who eventually ended up settling in Japan permanently - made a specific point to develop friendships with Japanese guys in Vancouver to help avoid the "pervy white dude talking like a girl" syndrome.

:lol:

Jacob, nice anecdote and clever guy for thinking that far forward.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Hamilcar on October 21, 2016, 02:21:34 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 20, 2016, 05:15:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 20, 2016, 04:50:56 PM
I've been warned several times by Japanese speakers that if you try to pick it up by watching movies, keep in mind that men and women tend to speak differently.

Yeah for sure. My friend - who eventually ended up settling in Japan permanently - made a specific point to develop friendships with Japanese guys in Vancouver to help avoid the "pervy white dude talking like a girl" syndrome.

Fairly sure The Brain aims to talk pervy not to their girls, but to their nuclear powerplants.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Tonitrus on October 21, 2016, 02:47:57 AM
You cannot hug a nuclear power plant.  :mad:
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 21, 2016, 02:55:03 AM
Only nuclear arms.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: garbon on October 21, 2016, 05:07:52 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 21, 2016, 02:55:03 AM
Only nuclear arms.

Hug you.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Josquius on October 21, 2016, 06:00:20 AM
Slime forest -> kanji damage -> struggle
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Monoriu on October 21, 2016, 06:46:13 AM
Japanese kanji is the easiest part of the language  :sleep:
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Josquius on October 21, 2016, 07:32:54 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 21, 2016, 06:46:13 AM
Japanese kanji is the easiest part of the language  :sleep:
:yes:
It is also the base through which the language should be learned.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Savonarola on October 21, 2016, 08:11:38 AM
I've used Duolingo (which, unfortunately, doesn't offer Japanese) and Memrise (https://www.memrise.com/) in tandem for French, Spanish and Italian.  I think they work reasonably well.  You could probably use Rosetta Stone in place of Duolingo.

News in Slow... is a good podcast once you have mastered the basics.

I've found that some of the blogs on FluentU have decent tips for more advanced podcasts.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Brazen on October 21, 2016, 08:14:56 AM
Do you have Meetup groups or similar? They have regular get-togethers for native speakers and learners to mingle and try out conversations at all levels.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: The Brain on October 21, 2016, 12:39:17 PM
Thanks for the tips. I shall dive into stuff and see. :)

Yeah I heard that there's a sex difference in Japanese. I shall endeavour to be manly.

Is it OK to speak 16th century Japanese if I wear an appropriate outfit?
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: viper37 on October 21, 2016, 02:36:26 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 20, 2016, 04:42:57 PM
The one thing with using samurai and ninja movies... the Japanese they speak is not necessarily modern conversational Japanese.
yeah, he should tried animes instead.

;)
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 21, 2016, 06:30:23 PM
My 13 year old niece has been taking Japanese for a few years now;  has such an ear for it, she's been winning awards in school for it.

Think she's getting a little Dances With Snow Monkeys on me, though...when I told her what the Japanese translation for the capital of Hawaii was, she got all tsk-tsky.  Apparently "Honoruru" is not only incorrect, but makes tweenager girls roll their eyes.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Josquius on October 21, 2016, 06:33:26 PM
Hawaii and japan is really weird.  It's like their 48th prefecture.  There's japan then theres America then theres hawai.  Pronounced with only one I.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Jacob on October 22, 2016, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 21, 2016, 06:30:23 PM
My 13 year old niece has been taking Japanese for a few years now;  has such an ear for it, she's been winning awards in school for it.

Think she's getting a little Dances With Snow Monkeys on me, though...when I told her what the Japanese translation for the capital of Hawaii was, she got all tsk-tsky.  Apparently "Honoruru" is not only incorrect, but makes tweenager girls roll their eyes.

I think your "Asian stereotypes from the 70s LOL!" schtick only really is well received by a subset of old white Americans.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 22, 2016, 03:11:53 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 22, 2016, 02:56:51 PM
I think your "Asian stereotypes from the 70s LOL!" schtick only really is well received by a subset of old white Americans.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Ed Anger on October 22, 2016, 08:33:51 PM
I enjoyed it.  :)
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 22, 2016, 09:45:53 PM
Bet it made your Nippons hard.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Razgovory on October 23, 2016, 09:11:55 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 22, 2016, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 21, 2016, 06:30:23 PM
My 13 year old niece has been taking Japanese for a few years now;  has such an ear for it, she's been winning awards in school for it.

Think she's getting a little Dances With Snow Monkeys on me, though...when I told her what the Japanese translation for the capital of Hawaii was, she got all tsk-tsky.  Apparently "Honoruru" is not only incorrect, but makes tweenager girls roll their eyes.

I think your "Asian stereotypes from the 70s LOL!" schtick only really is well received by a subset of old white Americans.

What, you don't think there is a subset of old black Americans who enjoy it?
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Jacob on October 23, 2016, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 23, 2016, 09:11:55 AMWhat, you don't think there is a subset of old black Americans who enjoy it?

I dunno.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 10:50:24 AM
Xiacob won't rest until all color is removed from "off-color" humor even if it means removing the white from "white knight." 
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Hamilcar on October 23, 2016, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 10:50:24 AM
Xiacob won't rest until all color is removed from "off-color" humor even if it means removing the white from "white knight."

He probably has trouble getting up in the morning carrying all that guilt for the horrible crimes of other, long-dead white men.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: garbon on October 23, 2016, 01:48:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 10:50:24 AM
Xiacob won't rest until all color is removed from "off-color" humor even if it means removing the white from "white knight." 

Meanwhile, you always forget the humor bit. :(
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Hamilcar on October 23, 2016, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 23, 2016, 01:48:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 10:50:24 AM
Xiacob won't rest until all color is removed from "off-color" humor even if it means removing the white from "white knight." 

Meanwhile, you always forget the humor bit. :(

It seems you did. But that's ok, we can all improve in life.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 23, 2016, 01:48:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 10:50:24 AM
Xiacob won't rest until all color is removed from "off-color" humor even if it means removing the white from "white knight." 

Meanwhile, you always forget the humor bit. :(

Sorry, this is a Limericks Only safe zone.  Stop triggering me, plz.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Jacob on October 23, 2016, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 10:50:24 AM
Xiacob won't rest until all color is removed from "off-color" humor even if it means removing the white from "white knight."

I forgive you whenever you're actually funny, but just because it's racist doesn't make it automatically funny in spite of what Hammy might believe.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: garbon on October 23, 2016, 02:17:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 23, 2016, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 10:50:24 AM
Xiacob won't rest until all color is removed from "off-color" humor even if it means removing the white from "white knight."

I forgive you whenever you're actually funny, but just because it's racist doesn't make it automatically funny in spite of what Hammy might believe.

Hami can't help it. That's just how he was raised.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 03:53:20 PM
Those damned '70s.  :(
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 23, 2016, 04:30:45 PM
I've got one for you Jacob.

"So, American prisona, you are surprised I speak your ranguage.  You see, I studied in your country.  At UCRA."
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 07:08:52 PM
Don't let Yi get away with that.  And don't let him play that "it's OK, I'm with them" I-can-say-it-but-you-can't angle.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Ed Anger on October 23, 2016, 07:38:24 PM
ROR
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 23, 2016, 07:39:38 PM
Hey, shoot that guy.  The racist cocksucker with the busted leg.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Jacob on October 23, 2016, 09:02:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 23, 2016, 04:30:45 PM
I've got one for you Jacob.

"So, American prisona, you are surprised I speak your ranguage.  You see, I studied in your country.  At UCRA."

I'm afraid I don't get the joke :(
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Savonarola on May 19, 2017, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 21, 2016, 08:11:38 AM
I've used Duolingo (which, unfortunately, doesn't offer Japanese) and Memrise (https://www.memrise.com/) in tandem for French, Spanish and Italian.  I think they work reasonably well.  You could probably use Rosetta Stone in place of Duolingo.

News in Slow... is a good podcast once you have mastered the basics.

I've found that some of the blogs on FluentU have decent tips for more advanced podcasts.

Don't know if you're still pursuing this; but Duolingo does now offer Japanese (though it's in beta at the moment.)
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on May 19, 2017, 09:38:55 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 23, 2016, 09:02:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 23, 2016, 04:30:45 PM
I've got one for you Jacob.

"So, American prisona, you are surprised I speak your ranguage.  You see, I studied in your country.  At UCRA."

I'm afraid I don't get the joke :(

It's making fun of the quality of instruction at UCLA.
Title: Re: Learning a new language?
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2017, 11:00:57 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 19, 2017, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 21, 2016, 08:11:38 AM
I've used Duolingo (which, unfortunately, doesn't offer Japanese) and Memrise (https://www.memrise.com/) in tandem for French, Spanish and Italian.  I think they work reasonably well.  You could probably use Rosetta Stone in place of Duolingo.

News in Slow... is a good podcast once you have mastered the basics.

I've found that some of the blogs on FluentU have decent tips for more advanced podcasts.

Don't know if you're still pursuing this; but Duolingo does now offer Japanese (though it's in beta at the moment.)

I kinda am. And sweet!! Thanks for the info!