Languish.org

So, after partisanism killed all attempts to assemble a coalition, we're back to the polling stations this June 26th, six mere months after the last one. Will we get a government this time? What's Languish choice on the matter?

(yes, the candidates are mostly the same, but new photos!)

Which party offers the best chance for me to say, NO YOU CAN'T!  :unsure:

Oh dear, Rufián's mug.  :lmfao:

Quote from: Monoriu on June 04, 2016, 09:09:12 AM
Which party offers the best chance for me to say, NO YOU CAN'T!  :unsure:

Usual formula in these cases is going for the oldest guy wearing a suit.

6 months is nothing. Maybe the voters will enable the politicians to break the belgian record? Needs about a year more though!

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 04, 2016, 10:09:32 AM
6 months is nothing. Maybe the voters will enable the politicians to break the belgian record? Needs about a year more though!

Does it count if there's another election? Won't the clock reset to 0? :P

Voted for the guy who just ties his tie.

The top one for some reason looks to me like he should be an ex-PM of Portugal :mellow:

No hotties.  :mad:

Quote from: Zanza on June 04, 2016, 11:07:30 AM
Voted for the guy who just ties his tie.

Same. At least he is wearing a tie.

3rd from bottom gives me a bit of a Leonardo DiCaprio vibe. Voted for him.

People without a tie should not be let near the apparatus of the state.

Quote from: Jaron on June 04, 2016, 12:49:56 PM
3rd from bottom gives me a bit of a Leonardo DiCaprio vibe. Voted for him.

No tie, though. Second from the bottom looks kinda cute but is probably a nazi.

Who cares about ties? What's the joke there?

Quote from: Martinus on June 04, 2016, 12:50:46 PM
People without a tie should not be let near the apparatus of the state.

It depends. Some few, very few, can pull it off.

Most look like best men after a night in the cells.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 04, 2016, 12:55:27 PM

Quote from: Martinus on June 04, 2016, 12:50:46 PM
People without a tie should not be let near the apparatus of the state.

It depends. Some few, very few, can pull it off.

Most look like best men after a night in the cells.

Of those pictured, maybe the last one only and then only barely.

I'll give Iglesias a pass because that shirt probably shouldn't be worn with a tie.

But if you're going to be a politician and wear non-formal shirts, at least go full Varoufakis:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi100.independent.co.uk%2Fimage%2F1104-1bytc1m.jpg&hash=5be2642149a38e00969851c5e2c0d07d40b08e16)

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 04, 2016, 12:58:55 PMI'll give Iglesias a pass because that shirt probably shouldn't be worn with a tie.

Must be one of his world famous Alcampo shirts.  :lol:

That shirt by Varoufakis gives me eye cancer.

Ties are dreadful.

Quote from: Martinus on June 04, 2016, 12:51:39 PM

Quote from: Jaron on June 04, 2016, 12:49:56 PM
3rd from bottom gives me a bit of a Leonardo DiCaprio vibe. Voted for him.

No tie, though. Second from the bottom looks kinda cute but is probably a nazi.

Liberal, I think you'd dig him actually. The internet left hates him with the fire of a thousand suns at the very least.

Tie-loving languishites would be amazed how many of those tie parties have been caught red-handed playing fast and loose with the public treasury, too.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Whenever there's a scandal of someone misusing funds here it has always been a tie-wearer doing it.

Quote from: celedhring on June 04, 2016, 02:20:13 PM
Liberal, I think you'd dig him actually. The internet left hates him with the fire of a thousand suns at the very least.

:yes:

Quote from: Zanza on June 04, 2016, 11:07:30 AM
Voted for the guy who just ties his tie.

He's got the most trustworthy face.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2016, 03:08:58 PM

Quote from: Zanza on June 04, 2016, 11:07:30 AM
Voted for the guy who just ties his tie.

He's got the most trustworthy face.

Currently indicted for misuse of public funds :D

Also, Catalan separatist.

#1 looks corrupt

Quote from: celedhring on June 04, 2016, 02:20:13 PM

Quote from: Martinus on June 04, 2016, 12:51:39 PM

Quote from: Jaron on June 04, 2016, 12:49:56 PM
3rd from bottom gives me a bit of a Leonardo DiCaprio vibe. Voted for him.

No tie, though. Second from the bottom looks kinda cute but is probably a nazi.

Liberal, I think you'd dig him actually. The internet left hates him with the fire of a thousand suns at the very least.

What's his name?

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 04, 2016, 10:19:58 AM

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 04, 2016, 10:09:32 AM
6 months is nothing. Maybe the voters will enable the politicians to break the belgian record? Needs about a year more though!

Does it count if there's another election? Won't the clock reset to 0? :P

nah, no government was formed after all.

Quote from: Martinus on June 04, 2016, 04:23:43 PM

Quote from: celedhring on June 04, 2016, 02:20:13 PM

Quote from: Martinus on June 04, 2016, 12:51:39 PM

Quote from: Jaron on June 04, 2016, 12:49:56 PM
3rd from bottom gives me a bit of a Leonardo DiCaprio vibe. Voted for him.

No tie, though. Second from the bottom looks kinda cute but is probably a nazi.

Liberal, I think you'd dig him actually. The internet left hates him with the fire of a thousand suns at the very least.

What's his name?

Albert Rivera. Don't think you'll find much of him that's not in Spanish though.

Bunch of polls released today put the merger of the two far left parties (IU and Podemos) firmly in second place, having surpassed the socialdemocrats. Conservatives lead by 2-5 points across polls but they are still miles away from getting a majority.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 04, 2016, 11:39:56 AM
The top one for some reason looks to me like he should be an ex-PM of Portugal :mellow:

That's not nice for Pedro Passos Coelho!  :ultra:

What was the name of that right-wing Spanish officer, I believe the head of the Falange, who Franco executed for being essentially too extreme -- kind of Franco's Ernst Roehm?  Anyone recall?  I know he was a martyr for the actual fascist per se element within the Franco contingent.

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 10, 2016, 03:57:48 AM
What was the name of that right-wing Spanish officer, I believe the head of the Falange, who Franco executed for being essentially too extreme -- kind of Franco's Ernst Roehm?  Anyone recall?  I know he was a martyr for the actual fascist per se element within the Franco contingent.

José Antonio Primo de Rivera. But he was not executed by Franco, but by the Republican government in the early months of the Spanish Civil War, as he was in jail when it started.

There's always been that rumor/myth that Franco turned down Republican overtures for a prisoner exchange involving Primo de Rivera. Much has been said and written about Franco's uncanny ability to have all of his political rivals die accidental deaths/executed by the enemy.

Quote from: celedhring on June 04, 2016, 02:23:48 PM
Tie-loving languishites would be amazed how many of those tie parties have been caught red-handed playing fast and loose with the public treasury, too.

Hey, snappy dressing doesn't come cheap.  :D

Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 09:57:13 AM

Quote from: celedhring on June 04, 2016, 02:23:48 PM
Tie-loving languishites would be amazed how many of those tie parties have been caught red-handed playing fast and loose with the public treasury, too.

Hey, snappy dressing doesn't come cheap.  :D

Funnily enough, a prominent politician was brought down a while ago over here because of his expensive taste for snappy suits.  :lol:

I like the tie-tying guy. Looks like a man of action. Politicians should note this for their publicity shots. DON'T eat bacon sandwiches, go on zip-wires or carry bananas. DO show yourself dressing smartly.

Quote from: The Larch on June 10, 2016, 10:14:01 AM

Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 09:57:13 AM

Quote from: celedhring on June 04, 2016, 02:23:48 PM
Tie-loving languishites would be amazed how many of those tie parties have been caught red-handed playing fast and loose with the public treasury, too.

Hey, snappy dressing doesn't come cheap.  :D

Funnily enough, a prominent politician was brought down a while ago over here because of his expensive taste for snappy suits.  :lol:

Awesome.  :lol:

If #5 got a perm he could pass for Inigo Montoya.  I voted for him in the hopes that his parties platform is pro swashbuckling and pro endless cycles of vengeance.

Quote from: Savonarola on June 10, 2016, 11:30:44 AMIf #5 got a perm he could pass for Inigo Montoya.  I voted for him in the hopes that his parties platform is pro swashbuckling and pro endless cycles of vengeance.

Well, all the other big parties are out to get him, he's a pretty good verbal swashbuckler and there are tons of jokes about his hair, so at least rhetorically speaking he's your guy.  :lol:

Quote from: Tonitrus on June 04, 2016, 12:08:55 PM
No hotties.  :mad:

Quote from: The Larch on June 10, 2016, 04:02:56 AM

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 10, 2016, 03:57:48 AM
What was the name of that right-wing Spanish officer, I believe the head of the Falange, who Franco executed for being essentially too extreme -- kind of Franco's Ernst Roehm?  Anyone recall?  I know he was a martyr for the actual fascist per se element within the Franco contingent.

José Antonio Primo de Rivera. But he was not executed by Franco, but by the Republican government in the early months of the Spanish Civil War, as he was in jail when it started.

Ah yes, the other Primo de Riveras. thank.  Didn't he become something of a martyr to the ultra-right/genuinely- fascist contingent within the Nationalists?  Maybe he still is to some extreme holdouts?

I know Franco didn't like him; Wikipedia says Franco called him a "playboy pinturero."

EDIT:  It also seems like he was the only one to try to introduce some antisemitism into the movement, smashing up the Jewish-owned SEPU department stores.  Of course with so few Jews in Spain, it would've been unlikely to get very far, but interesting that he was casting around for some way to introduce it.

Quote from: Savonarola on June 10, 2016, 11:30:44 AM
If #5 got a perm he could pass for Inigo Montoya.  I voted for him in the hopes that his parties platform is pro swashbuckling and pro endless cycles of vengeance.

:D

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 10, 2016, 10:26:13 PM
EDIT:  It also seems like he was the only one to try to introduce some antisemitism into the movement, smashing up the Jewish-owned SEPU department stores.  Of course with so few Jews in Spain, it would've been unlikely to get very far, but interesting that he was casting around for some way to introduce it.

The "Judeo-Masonic conspiracy" was one of the regime's preferred boogeymen in the early days and a big part of their propaganda during the post-war years of poverty and international isolation ("why does Spain suck? The joos did it!"). It's hard to tell the bark from the bite, though, since there were almost no jews left to persecute in Spain.

In the 1960s, with the regime looking to get accepted by the international community, the antisemite rethoric was dropped, coinciding with the fall from grace of the Falange (which were indeed the fiercest antisemites in the regime). As part of that, Franco formally abolished the 1492 edict of expulsion.

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 10, 2016, 10:26:13 PM

Quote from: The Larch on June 10, 2016, 04:02:56 AM

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 10, 2016, 03:57:48 AM
What was the name of that right-wing Spanish officer, I believe the head of the Falange, who Franco executed for being essentially too extreme -- kind of Franco's Ernst Roehm?  Anyone recall?  I know he was a martyr for the actual fascist per se element within the Franco contingent.

José Antonio Primo de Rivera. But he was not executed by Franco, but by the Republican government in the early months of the Spanish Civil War, as he was in jail when it started.

Ah yes, the other Primo de Riveras. thank.  Didn't he become something of a martyr to the ultra-right/genuinely- fascist contingent within the Nationalists?  Maybe he still is to some extreme holdouts?

I know Franco didn't like him; Wikipedia says Franco called him a "playboy pinturero."

EDIT:  It also seems like he was the only one to try to introduce some antisemitism into the movement, smashing up the Jewish-owned SEPU department stores.  Of course with so few Jews in Spain, it would've been unlikely to get very far, but interesting that he was casting around for some way to introduce it.

He was in fact the older son of Miguel Primo de Rivera, who led an authocratic dictatorship during the 20s, right before the establishment of the 2nd Republic (in fact the Monarchy was discredited at the time because of its support to the dictatorship). And yes, he was a genuine fascist. He founded the Falange (taking the Italian fascist party as role model), and most of Franco's dictatorship fascist trappings came from there. He was indeed a martyr for the regime and his figure was used extensively for propaganda, even if Franco didn't like him (Franco liked very few people near the top, and it appears that the disliking was mutual amongst many of the other main figures of the rebel side during the SCW).

As Cel said, Franco's favourite boogeyman at the beginning of his dictatorship was the "judeo-masonic conspiracy" against Spain. Franco's obsession was directed mostly towards Freemasons (apparently he had tried to join them when he was younger but was rejected, and he kept being bitter about that afterwards), but Falange did incorporate antisemitism to the equation. When Falange lost its position near the top because obvious fascism had stopped being en vogue, this discourse was quietly dropped, in order to be replaced by ultra-traditional catholicism, with falangist ministers being replaced by Opus Dei ones. Franco was "pragmatic" in that sense and not much of an ideologue, he would adopt whatever strategy that would keep him in power. At the beginning his regime was outrigh fascist, after WWII they dropped some of that and then in order to be accepted by the international community they switched to stress their anti communism.

The Spanish far right party Vox (not pictured in the poll since they have the same chance of getting MPs than I do of scoring with a supermodel), have debuted their campaign slogan: "Hacer España Grande Otra Vez" (Make Spain Great Again) :D

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgaceta.es%2Fsystem%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Flarge%2Fprivate%2Fvox_cartel.png%3Fitok%3DC27h7gZb&hash=ebf3e0d92c46178514ec5cc30216047476858aaa)

Trump should sue.

Quote from: celedhring on June 14, 2016, 04:10:07 AM
The Spanish far right party Vox (not pictured in the poll since they have the same chance of getting MPs than I do of scoring with a supermodel), have debuted their campaign slogan: "Hacer España Grande Otra Vez" (Make Spain Great Again) :D

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgaceta.es%2Fsystem%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Flarge%2Fprivate%2Fvox_cartel.png%3Fitok%3DC27h7gZb&hash=ebf3e0d92c46178514ec5cc30216047476858aaa)

:o

This bodes ill for Mexico and Peru.   :(


;)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9Maeli1EgBg/hqdefault.jpg)


:bork:

A few party leaders from the far right party discussed above (Vox) have been arrested in Gibraltar after unfurling a 18-meter Spanish flag from the top of the rock. One of them has been able to escape the Royal Police by diving into the sea and swimming back to Spanish land :lol:

They have uploaded it on youtube under the title "Vox conquers Gibraltar": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr--3rMlliw

:lol:

I hope there's video.

Is it a crime to display the Spanish flag in Gibraltar?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 20, 2016, 01:34:09 PM
Is it a crime to display the Spanish flag in Gibraltar?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/gibraltar/10832508/Gibraltar-flag-raising-leads-to-arrests-of-Spanish-journalists.html

Quote"It seems the intention is to accuse them of a breach of public order for placing a flag on a public beach in Gibraltar."

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 20, 2016, 01:34:09 PM
Is it a crime to display the Spanish flag in Gibraltar?

I'm guessing that you need the permission of the local planning authority to fly a flag that large...

Some of them already had outstanding warrants for stealing one of the concrete blocks that the Gibraltar government sank in the gulf to mark their territorial waters.

Here's the party leader, posing with the trophy claimed from the Perfidious Albion:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.elconfidencialdigital.com%2FSantiago-Abascal-bloque-extraido-Algeciras_ECDIMA20160105_0010_20.jpg&hash=e22d8f34187ecb694dc3c7c3c6881cd8a9cda158)

Spain can have Gibraltar back as soon as it gives Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco.

Quote from: Valmy on June 20, 2016, 03:58:19 PM
Spain can have Gibraltar back as soon as it gives Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco.

None of that is going to happen anytime soon, so better not to waste much breath arguing for it.

YAAAAY!

We're at the fruit market stage of the election which I really like.

Quote from: Valmy on June 20, 2016, 03:58:19 PM
Spain can have Gibraltar back as soon as it gives back Olivença to Portugal.

Fixed, you bloody islamo-Moroccan apologist!  :mad:  :P

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 21, 2016, 06:30:10 AM
YAAAAY!

We're at the fruit market stage of the election which I really like.

VOX is a joke with no real impact overall so this is just a funny side story. If you want silly antics amongst the big parties, you might want to check the brouhaha about Pedro Sánchez apparently wiping his hand after shaking it with a black family or the jumbotron-gate in Barcelona with Ciudadanos sponsoring one for people to watch Spain's games during the Eurocup claiming that the city council wanted to ban them because they're a bunch of nasty independentists or something.  :lol:

Quote from: The Larch on June 21, 2016, 06:34:22 AM

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 21, 2016, 06:30:10 AM
YAAAAY!

We're at the fruit market stage of the election which I really like.

VOX is a joke with no real impact overall so this is just a funny side story. If you want silly antics amongst the big parties, you might want to check the brouhaha about Pedro Sánchez apparently wiping his hand after shaking it with a black family or the jumbotron-gate in Barcelona with Ciudadanos sponsoring one for people to watch Spain's games during the Eurocup claiming that the city council wanted to ban them because they're a bunch of nasty independentists or something.  :lol:

Only in Spain a political rally can be centered around watching Spain beat the turks at football  :showoff:

Can't quite work out the deputy PM greeted by a black man pic...

Speaking of the fruit market... in Spain there's a provision that forbids media from publishing polls one week before the election. Spanish media resort to "creative" methods of skirting such ban.

A common one, is disguising it as a report on the fruit market  :P

(https://s31.postimg.org/puedxm3az/Captura.png)

Are there similar provisions in other countries? It just looks stupid in this day and age.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 21, 2016, 06:41:50 AM
Can't quite work out the deputy PM greeted by a black man pic...

It wasn't the deputy PM, but PSOE's candidate, he was walking down the street and shook the hands of a black family he passed by, and afterwards made some rubbing gesture with them. I guess there's a video...

I meant on the front page of El Pais today.

There seemed to be some Internet furore I wasn't following over it.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 21, 2016, 10:32:30 AM
I meant on the front page of El Pais today.

There seemed to be some Internet furore I wasn't following over it.

Just checked it but couldn't find it, can you share a link please?

In less savoury news, it has surfaced through hidden recordings that our Interior minister (a, shall we say, colourful guy), has been handling a secret police group in charge of getting dirt on Catalan separatist politicians and leaking it to the press in order to sabotage Catalonia's independence movement. Recently similar stuff has been done with Podemos, and it would be no surprise at all to know that it had been engineered from the top as well.

Quote from: The Larch on June 22, 2016, 05:44:50 AM
In less savoury news, it has surfaced through hidden recordings that our Interior minister (a, shall we say, colourful guy), has been handling a secret police group in charge of getting dirt on Catalan separatist politicians and leaking it to the press in order to sabotage Catalonia's independence movement. Recently similar stuff has been done with Podemos, and it would be no surprise at all to know that it had been engineered from the top as well.

I know this is "I'm shocked there's gambling in this establishment" news, but there shouldn't be gambling in this establishment. Pretty infuriating affair.

Quote from: celedhring on June 22, 2016, 03:24:53 PM

Quote from: The Larch on June 22, 2016, 05:44:50 AM
In less savoury news, it has surfaced through hidden recordings that our Interior minister (a, shall we say, colourful guy), has been handling a secret police group in charge of getting dirt on Catalan separatist politicians and leaking it to the press in order to sabotage Catalonia's independence movement. Recently similar stuff has been done with Podemos, and it would be no surprise at all to know that it had been engineered from the top as well.

I know this is "I'm shocked there's gambling in this establishment" news, but there shouldn't be gambling in this establishment. Pretty infuriating affair.

Fernández Díaz is surely one of the more calamitous ministers in recent history.

Are you preparing a third thread?

Right now polls are predicting another deadlock indeed. Although there will be more pressure (from home and from abroad) to get a deal done this time. The repeat election only seems to have benefited Podemos, and I doubt that was the aim of the establishment parties.

Leaked exit poll with a Podemos-PSOE majority. Which I'm sure is what Brussels and Berlin were wanting to hear at this point :lol:

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 26, 2016, 11:57:46 AM
Leaked exit poll with a Podemos-PSOE majority. Which I'm sure is what Brussels and Berlin were wanting to hear at this point :lol:

At this point anything is preferable to PP continuing by default.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 26, 2016, 11:57:46 AM
Leaked exit poll with a Podemos-PSOE majority. Which I'm sure is what Brussels and Berlin were wanting to hear at this point :lol:

I think Brussels will be able to sleep tonight. With half the vote counted, it looks like the Socialists are retaining #2 and a coalition with Podemos will fall short of a majority.

Looks like the establishment parties won...?

Quote from: Zanza on June 26, 2016, 02:50:52 PM
Looks like the establishment parties won...?

I believe that Brexit had an effect here, although truth be said the results are very similar to 6 months ago. Maybe the polls were just wrong.

The biggest difference is that some center right vote has fled from Ciudadanos to PP.

Quote from: Zanza on June 26, 2016, 02:50:52 PM
Looks like the establishment parties won...?

Looks like an exact repeat of the last vote :lol:

Maybe one or two seat changes if that.

The people have spoken, now we need to try and work out what they've said.

The devil is in the details.

Podemos was going into this round having swallowed the commies. A million votes in the last election ... and is seeing no effect from them.

So a repeated result is a VERY bad sign for Iglesias.

Did the concept of a grand coalition between PP and PSOE ever occur to the respective party leaders?

Quote from: Zanza on June 26, 2016, 03:14:47 PM
Did the concept of a grand coalition between PP and PSOE ever occur to the respective party leaders?

I seem to recall mention of nobody agreeing to that while Rajoy was in charge of the PP (or perhaps just Prime-Minister) and Rajoy wasn't budging as he was the leader of the largest party and the incumbent Prime-Minister.

I'm sure one of our Spanish colleagues can clarify any errors I've made above.

Quote from: Zanza on June 26, 2016, 03:14:47 PM
Did the concept of a grand coalition between PP and PSOE ever occur to the respective party leaders?

PP would love it, for PSOE it'd be political suicide and turn them into the new PASOK.

PP's result  :bleeding:

Their home secretary was caught red handed conspiring to find dirt on political opponents last week, plus all the corruption scandals and overall nastiness and moral bankruptcy, yet they improve their results tonight. This country.  :bleeding:

Quote from: celedhring on June 26, 2016, 03:19:06 PM
PP's result  :bleeding:

Their home secretary was caught red handed conspiring to find dirt on political opponents last week, plus all the corruption scandals and overall nastiness and moral bankruptcy, yet they improve their results tonight. This country.  :bleeding:

They've basically scooped back all their wishy-washy voters that went to Ciudadanos in the last elections.

Quote from: The Larch on June 26, 2016, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: Zanza on June 26, 2016, 03:14:47 PM
Did the concept of a grand coalition between PP and PSOE ever occur to the respective party leaders?

PP would love it, for PSOE it'd be political suicide and turn them into the new PASOK.

Yeah I don't think it could really work in many countries aside from Germany.

What about a deal like in Ireland with a minority government and Fianna Fail abstain on issues of confidence and supply (though we'll see how long that works)?

For PSOE cooperation with PP of any kind is political suicide, they'd be propping up their government one way or the other.

Quote from: The Larch on June 26, 2016, 03:20:23 PM

Quote from: celedhring on June 26, 2016, 03:19:06 PM
PP's result  :bleeding:

Their home secretary was caught red handed conspiring to find dirt on political opponents last week, plus all the corruption scandals and overall nastiness and moral bankruptcy, yet they improve their results tonight. This country.  :bleeding:

They've basically scooped back all their wishy-washy voters that went to Ciudadanos in the last elections.

The Reds are coming!

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 26, 2016, 03:21:50 PM
What about a deal like in Ireland with a minority government and Fianna Fail abstain on issues of confidence and supply (though we'll see how long that works)?

We don't have that kind of political maturity here. What happens in Spain is a party wins and gets to do whatever the fuck they want for 4 years. Anything short of that is seen as weak and traitorous.

Quote from: Iormlund on June 26, 2016, 03:59:14 PM

Quote from: The Larch on June 26, 2016, 03:20:23 PM

Quote from: celedhring on June 26, 2016, 03:19:06 PM
PP's result  :bleeding:

Their home secretary was caught red handed conspiring to find dirt on political opponents last week, plus all the corruption scandals and overall nastiness and moral bankruptcy, yet they improve their results tonight. This country.  :bleeding:

They've basically scooped back all their wishy-washy voters that went to Ciudadanos in the last elections.

The Reds are coming!

Venezuela! Venezuela! Venezuela!

*Nicolás Maduro is summoned*

Quote from: Iormlund on June 26, 2016, 04:01:39 PM

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 26, 2016, 03:21:50 PM
What about a deal like in Ireland with a minority government and Fianna Fail abstain on issues of confidence and supply (though we'll see how long that works)?

We don't have that kind of political maturity here. What happens in Spain is a party wins and gets to do whatever the fuck they want for 4 years. Anything short of that is seen as weak and traitorous.

Nowt wrong with that :P

And I am genuinely very doubtful how well the Ireland deal will hold up. Fianna Fail have a whiff of getting back into power and that's all they're built for.

My gf is Venezuelan. She told me early today that if Pablito won she was going back to Germany. She HATES Germany.  :lol:

That's not very logical.

Is this the start of Sexit

@Zanza: Venezuela used to bankroll Podemos, Iglesias being a very vocal support of the regime - plus he has on numerous occasions put forward similar policies. She was forced to flee her country by Chaves and Co, so I can understand her aversion to a similar party governing  here.

The back to Germany thing is simply because that's a place where she would be able to land a visa+job easily (she's an engineer).

Quote from: Jaron on June 26, 2016, 04:50:01 PM
Is this the start of Sexit

I prefer Spexit, sounds better.

Spain ain't going to exit the EU. They need their sugar daddy to bankroll their social expenditure.

So, I'm trying to follow the negotiations as much as I can, but the process seem rather dull to someone who's looking at it from the outside.

From what I gather (and trying to apply Portuguese party logic to this), it seems that no one wants to do a coalition with Rajoy, but there's more pressure than before from social groups to reach a solution. Iglesias/Podemos are still trying to understand what happened with their voters/2nd place, and the cracks may start to appear inside. PSOE is trying to transform this into some kind of victory, hoping that the general distaste of Rajoy from the other parties might catapult Sanchez as the leader of a different solution (wich failed before). And Ciudadanos is trying to play the role of bridge builders, but no one seems that interested to let them take the charge in the process.

Now, probably I'm completely wrong about that "analysis", but how probable is there to be a solution without the fall of Rajoy/Iglesias, maybe Sanchez? Is there any clarification to be had if you had another elections in a few months?

Quote from: clandestino on July 06, 2016, 05:49:57 PM
So, I'm trying to follow the negotiations as much as I can, but the process seem rather dull to someone who's looking at it from the outside.

From what I gather (and trying to apply Portuguese party logic to this), it seems that no one wants to do a coalition with Rajoy, but there's more pressure than before from social groups to reach a solution. Iglesias/Podemos are still trying to understand what happened with their voters/2nd place, and the cracks may start to appear inside. PSOE is trying to transform this into some kind of victory, hoping that the general distaste of Rajoy from the other parties might catapult Sanchez as the leader of a different solution (wich failed before). And Ciudadanos is trying to play the role of bridge builders, but no one seems that interested to let them take the charge in the process.

Now, probably I'm completely wrong about that "analysis", but how probable is there to be a solution without the fall of Rajoy/Iglesias, maybe Sanchez? Is there any clarification to be had if you had another elections in a few months?

Rajoy/PP is toxic and nobody wants to get too close with him, but it's undeniable that they were the winners of the last elections and their very solid voter core will keep them in that position for the foreseeable future. Then again, the other parties seem to be completely at odds with each other, making a compromise between them very difficult. The new elections didn't really alter the balance of power, so everything is kinda back to the beginning, although this time they are all obliged to reach some kind of agreement, as the country can't stomach being without a government any longer. Your analysis is correct, broadly speaking, it only remains to be seen who, if anyone, has to fall on his sword for the parties to reach an agreement on a new government.

Would PP be less toxic if Rajoy quit?

Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2016, 06:01:52 PM
Rajoy/PP is toxic and nobody wants to get too close with him, but it's undeniable that they were the winners of the last elections and their very solid voter core will keep them in that position for the foreseeable future. Then again, the other parties seem to be completely at odds with each other, making a compromise between them very difficult. The new elections didn't really alter the balance of power, so everything is kinda back to the beginning, although this time they are all obliged to reach some kind of agreement, as the country can't stomach being without a government any longer. Your analysis is correct, broadly speaking, it only remains to be seen who, if anyone, has to fall on his sword for the parties to reach an agreement on a new government.

From what I gather it seems that PP has already started their conversations with the other parties officially. Is there a rigid timeline for a solution? If there's none, what's the process again? Parliamentary rejection then to PSOE to try one? Is there any party congress already in the works in the near future that can change its leader? :hmm:

Quote from: Sheilbh on July 06, 2016, 06:06:26 PM
Would PP be less toxic if Rajoy quit?

It would make dealing with them more palatable to the other parties, for sure, but his grip on power internally is impressive and he's not the kind of person that would remove himself from the picture to make things happen. His career is built on stubborness, letting things solve themselves around him and playing the long game.

Quote from: clandestino on July 06, 2016, 06:09:15 PM

Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2016, 06:01:52 PM
Rajoy/PP is toxic and nobody wants to get too close with him, but it's undeniable that they were the winners of the last elections and their very solid voter core will keep them in that position for the foreseeable future. Then again, the other parties seem to be completely at odds with each other, making a compromise between them very difficult. The new elections didn't really alter the balance of power, so everything is kinda back to the beginning, although this time they are all obliged to reach some kind of agreement, as the country can't stomach being without a government any longer. Your analysis is correct, broadly speaking, it only remains to be seen who, if anyone, has to fall on his sword for the parties to reach an agreement on a new government.

From what I gather it seems that PP has already started their conversations with the other parties officially. Is there a rigid timeline for a solution? If there's none, what's the process again? Parliamentary rejection then to PSOE to try one? Is there any party congress already in the works in the near future that can change its leader? :hmm:

Yes, conversation have started with the smaller parties, but they are basically irrelevant as only the other big 3 matter for this purposes. Podemos will never support them, Ciudadanos might if they throw them a few bones but are useless on their own, and PSOE is internally torn on the matter. At the end of the day it will all depend on what PSOE does.

As for the process, first the new congress has to be put in place, which will happen in two weeks (July 19th). After that, the King will meet with all the party leaders and nominate a candidate, this will put us at the end of July. This candidate will obviously be Rajoy. Last time around Rajoy refused the nomination and it fell on Sánchez lap to try to get a coalition - which he failed to achieve. A debate and vote will be scheduled in congress, which hopefully will happen before August, but there's a decent chance it will get kicked to after the holidays if there isn't a deal in place. Once the vote is held, if the candidate fails to get appointed president there's a period of 2 months until a new election is called.

Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2016, 06:17:52 PM
Yes, conversation have started with the smaller parties, but they are basically irrelevant as only the other big 3 matter for this purposes. Podemos will never support them, Ciudadanos might if they throw them a few bones but are useless on their own, and PSOE is internally torn on the matter. At the end of the day it will all depend on what PSOE does.

Yeah, the math only works with PSOE, everything else is window-dressing. And they hate the guts of each other.

In Spanish politics "compromise" is usually understood as getting the other side to bend over and humiliate itself, without you moving and inch.

Quote from: celedhring on July 07, 2016, 02:15:29 AM

Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2016, 06:17:52 PM
Yes, conversation have started with the smaller parties, but they are basically irrelevant as only the other big 3 matter for this purposes. Podemos will never support them, Ciudadanos might if they throw them a few bones but are useless on their own, and PSOE is internally torn on the matter. At the end of the day it will all depend on what PSOE does.

Yeah, the math only works with PSOE, everything else is window-dressing. And they hate the guts of each other.

In Spanish politics "compromise" is usually understood as getting the other side to bend over and humiliate itself, without you moving and inch.

what Spain needs is a few more general elections and new government after about 600 days. You'll also get the Longest-With-No-Government-Cup from Belgium :) Go Spain!

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 07, 2016, 03:37:51 AM

Quote from: celedhring on July 07, 2016, 02:15:29 AM

Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2016, 06:17:52 PM
Yes, conversation have started with the smaller parties, but they are basically irrelevant as only the other big 3 matter for this purposes. Podemos will never support them, Ciudadanos might if they throw them a few bones but are useless on their own, and PSOE is internally torn on the matter. At the end of the day it will all depend on what PSOE does.

Yeah, the math only works with PSOE, everything else is window-dressing. And they hate the guts of each other.

In Spanish politics "compromise" is usually understood as getting the other side to bend over and humiliate itself, without you moving and inch.

what Spain needs is a few more general elections and new government after about 600 days. You'll also get the Longest-With-No-Government-Cup from Belgium :) Go Spain!

Heh, I don't think we'll get to challenge that, there seems to be a pretty big consensus that this time a government has to be formed one way or the other.

What's the role of the King? I remember being really surprised how active it was in Belgium.

Quote from: Sheilbh on July 07, 2016, 03:56:12 AM
What's the role of the King? I remember being really surprised how active it was in Belgium.

He's the one who has to propose to one of the parties the formation of the new government. Previously this was basically rubber-stamping what the elections said, but in the last ones Felipe was put in a bit of a conundrum because Rajoy admitted that he had no support to form a government and woudln't even try to form a new government, basically evading responsability. That's when PSOE was offered the possibility of forming a government, which previously was unheard of for the 2nd most voted party to be given such an option.

Almost three weeks after the election, and so far doesn't look like there will be a coalition in place.

Meanwhile, it looks like the EU hasn't bought our government's accounting sleight of hand to avoid starting the sanctions process for excessive deficit. Despite the fact that PP can only blame themselves for this (they lowered taxes last year to buy themselves a majority in the election - which they didn't get), truth is that without a legitimate government in place there's little that can be done.

Quote from: The Larch on July 07, 2016, 03:55:25 AM

Heh, I don't think we'll get to challenge that, there seems to be a pretty big consensus that this time a government has to be formed one way or the other.

Too bad;  I abstained from voting on Languish this time 'cause there were no hotties, and another election would give Spain a chance to correct that.

So, the acting president (Mariano Rajoy), has failed to pass the vote to get re-elected president. So far we're still without a government 9 months and counting. There's still a 2 month period before a third election is called.

Rajoy managed to close a deal with the liberals (Ciudadanos), but they were still 6 votes short.

So, we still DON'T have a government, and a third election ( :bleeding:) is looking increasingly likely. 

Quote from: celedhring on September 27, 2016, 11:26:01 AM
So, we still DON'T have a government, and a third election ( :bleeding:) is looking increasingly likely. 

Ok so as bad as our election is at least we don't have to have the same one over and over again.

This is why executive power shouldn't belong to the legislature.

take your time :)

Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2016, 11:53:53 AM

Quote from: celedhring on September 27, 2016, 11:26:01 AM
So, we still DON'T have a government, and a third election ( :bleeding:) is looking increasingly likely. 

Ok so as bad as our election is at least we don't have to have the same one over and over again.

This is why executive power shouldn't belong to the legislature.

You are pretty much certain to get a new president before we do. No president > President Trump though.

I actually prefer the executive to be beholden to the legislative, but it needs responsible politicians, of we are in really short supply.

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 27, 2016, 11:55:26 AM
take your time :)

What was your record again?

Quote from: celedhring on September 27, 2016, 12:01:27 PM

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 27, 2016, 11:55:26 AM
take your time :)

What was your record again?

541 days iirc

Ok, we should still fall short of that  :ph34r:

Around 400 if the third election finally produces a government.

So, the Socialist Party seems to have hit the self-destruct button.

Quote from: The Larch on September 28, 2016, 11:54:50 AM
So, the Socialist Party seems to have hit the self-destruct button.

That button must be quite worn-out at this point.

Quote from: celedhring on September 28, 2016, 12:07:53 PM

Quote from: The Larch on September 28, 2016, 11:54:50 AM
So, the Socialist Party seems to have hit the self-destruct button.

That button must be quite worn-out at this point.

It will be pressed again in the future and when whoever comes after Sánchez (Susana Díaz? :Shudders: ) finally supports Rajoy, and that will the final time it gets pressed.

Quote from: The Larch on September 28, 2016, 12:16:05 PM

Quote from: celedhring on September 28, 2016, 12:07:53 PM

Quote from: The Larch on September 28, 2016, 11:54:50 AM
So, the Socialist Party seems to have hit the self-destruct button.

That button must be quite worn-out at this point.

It will be pressed again in the future and when whoever comes after Sánchez (Susana Díaz? :Shudders: ) finally supports Rajoy, and that will the final time it gets pressed.

Yup, no matter how all over the place Podemos appear to be themselves, PSOE seem firmly set on gifting them the spot of main opposition party.

Quote from: celedhring on September 27, 2016, 12:27:52 PM
Ok, we should still fall short of that  :ph34r:

Around 400 if the third election finally produces a government.

assuming it does of course

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 28, 2016, 12:37:18 PM

Quote from: celedhring on September 27, 2016, 12:27:52 PM
Ok, we should still fall short of that  :ph34r:

Around 400 if the third election finally produces a government.

assuming it does of course

There's just been an internal coup within the Socialist Party by the faction most favorable to let current president Mariano Rajoy get appointed again. So I think it's a given now.

So have Spanish Corbynistas infiltrated the PSOE then?

Quote from: PJL on September 28, 2016, 01:00:44 PM
So have Spanish Corbynistas infiltrated the PSOE then?

Not really, Sánchez' politics are pretty much your regular European Social-Democrat. But he was blocking the re-appointment of Mariano Rajoy as president, and has faced an internal coup as a result.

So a Socialist faction is about to destroy the party to get a conservative elected president. It's more PASOK than Labour.

Quote from: celedhring on September 28, 2016, 01:41:46 PM

Quote from: PJL on September 28, 2016, 01:00:44 PM
So have Spanish Corbynistas infiltrated the PSOE then?

Not really, Sánchez' politics are pretty much your regular European Social-Democrat. But he was blocking the re-appointment of Mariano Rajoy as president, and has faced an internal coup as a result.

So a Socialist faction is about to destroy the party to get a conservative elected president. It's more PASOK than Labour.

It is 100% PASOK-y, if the rebel faction of PSOE succeeds in getting somebody at the head of the party that will support Rajoy's government then in the following elections they will be reduced to a fraction of MPs of what they currently have. My guess is somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3, and will be basically reduced to an Andalusian/Southern Spanish party. Podemos will fully become our Syriza and turn into the mainstream left wing party in Spanish politics for the foreseeable future.

Cel, I'm currently away from Spain, what's the media saying about this? El País is basically painting Sánchez as Tony Montana holed up in his mansion, and praises to high heavens the action of the plotters. I can't believe how much that paper has shifted in the recent years...

Quote from: The Larch on September 28, 2016, 04:38:37 PM
Cel, I'm currently away from Spain, what's the media saying about this? El País is basically painting Sánchez as Tony Montana holed up in his mansion, and praises to high heavens the action of the plotters. I can't believe how much that paper has shifted in the recent years...

No joke, even ABC is being more balanced than them on this. Anyhow, that's the end of PSOE as the main left party in Spain.

Catalan media are only talking about the announcement of yet another independence referendum.  :hmm:

So with Sanchez gone, is there a chance for a government coalition between PSOE and PP under Rajoy?

There won't be a coalition, but it's likely they will now abstain and allow Rajoy to be reappointed (sigh).

Apparently PP want assurances of outside support during the new term on top of their abstention for Rajoy's elections so if they get it it'll be a Grand Coalition in all but name.

So, PSOE's provisional management has decided by 139 votes against 96 to abstain in favour of Rajoy, so a PP government before the end of the year is now a foregone conclussion, and the prospect of beating Belgium's record of no government in place dissappears.

That's the end of the Socialist Party, I think. Almost 140 years after Pablo Iglesias founded it, another Pablo Iglesias has destroyed it.

Nah, it's self inflicted.

Sure, but there had to be an alternative. Look at PP - rotten from top to bottom - yet there's no one there capable of diverting the voters from them.

Quote from: The Larch on October 23, 2016, 02:36:58 PM
So, PSOE's provisional management has decided by 139 votes against 96 to abstain in favour of Rajoy, so a PP government before the end of the year is now a foregone conclussion, and the prospect of beating Belgium's record of no government in place dissappears.

:(
again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...

So, it is done. The socialists abstained (although 15 of them broke ranks and voted "no") and we have a new minority government, led by Mariano Rajoy. Hooooray.  :glare:

Break out the shampagne! :w00t:

What happened to the hottie in the last Spanish election thread?

Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 29, 2016, 01:45:35 PM
What happened to the hottie in the last Spanish election thread?

That one was for the Catalan regional election. She's the minority leader in our parliament.

Sadly she just got married.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lavanguardia.com%2Fr%2FGODO%2FLV%2Fp3%2FWebSite%2F2016%2F07%2F30%2FRecortada%2Fimg_ejimenez_20160730-222104_imagenes_lv_otras_fuentes_boda_ines_arrimadas-kyMH-U403582178266xKG-992x558%40LaVanguardia-Web.png&hash=7e707ee97117e55e145c14b3837073303e1740ea)

No You Can't :contract: