Poll
tmi
This many years in, is it really?
She's a liberal, you're safe.
:P
Bet he could kill us stone dead from boredom at 60 paces explaining dialectical materialism.
Except that guy and a couple of others, they are all left wingers :P
The suitless photo-op to look more relatable to the voter is pretty popular around here though.
No kidding. Even if I am considering voting for her, as of the guys, only the second to last is even remotely fuckable.
The Spanish general election will be 2-3 months later, and it looks like there will be at least a couple of hot/cute guys running for that one.
I thought gays were supposed to have lower standards than chicks? :hmm:
Since when? It's quite the opposite. Gays are men and men are much more focused on looks than women (who go for status symbols, security, or "love").
Just look at a typical lesbian - most men wouldn't even touch that.
:cheers:
I don't want my politician to be someone I can have a beer with - I want a smart and talented leader.
Which may explain my fondness for Harper. :hmm:
So, given that we had beer with some of us, does it mean you consider us dumb and talentless? :mad:
Well, the stereotype is that men are more about quantity than quality comparatively. So at the end of the night the fugs get more consideration.
I was unaware that you were a politician. :hmm:
Clearly, I do prefer that my drinking buddies be people that I want to have a beer with. :)
Advance preview:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.silviaalbert.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2FPedro-S%25C3%25A1nchez.jpg&hash=b06c5f01b190ccbf30b78ca15c8bf2f2fcffc646)
Too Latin-y?
Well, I like some Latino men, but not the "Antonio Banderas" type.
I count three guys with glasses.
So what you're saying is that you need a full-body shot so that you can evaluate the legs? :P
Are you offering? :)
I will let you do your own Google work (yes, I already have though). :sleep:
I'll admit that I really just blazed through the fuglies as my initial statement just said guy with glasses. -_-
Who is #6?
You are number two.
The "lead" of the separatist front.
It's a bit complicated, the true leaders of the two main separatist parties that make up the front reached a compromise to put and independent at the top of the list. This guy is a left wing activist. Since there's also a Syriza-like far left front running (#5) that might steal the protest vote off them, they went with a known leftist as the main face of the separatist list.
What do you mean?
The correct answer was "I am not a number, I am a free man!" :(
Yup, he's a far left journalist/writer. He's easily the leftiest candidate in the list. The leave the EU, leave NATO, collectivize everything, let's-dance-around-the-funeral-pyre-of-capitalism, type. They are not even communists, that's *too* establishment, but a weird mix of post-communism and post-anarchism.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.e-noticies.com%2Fimg%2F20150503%2Fscreensnapz003_457.jpg&hash=c89b8e02b968888c32fa4011816f3ee6a4acf6af)
Given the way some of the Catalan intelligentsia dress I don't think that the suit+tie litmust test is a valid one. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs03.s3c.es%2Fimag%2F_v0%2F225x250%2F0%2F7%2F9%2Fsala-martin-rosa.jpg&hash=45bb93e3fa1fc9c01ebfcffe03f62b76060a5e83)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs.libertaddigital.com%2Ffotos%2Fnoticias%2Fsalaimarti-rey.jpg&hash=886dc7e1c43b33d3e7042be1042f3bc10a590a96)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.innovaspain.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F07%2FXavier-Sala-i-Martin.jpg&hash=1c2291699fcd0c8d6a10c3e5d72055a50d303dad)
He's a funny one, though. :lol:
Another pic:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gaceta.es%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2F668x300%2Fpublic%2Fentrevista2.png%3Fitok%3DNigeuY2d&hash=ec13f6ebf94cb208cf568c233db06eddf27d8f4c)
Besides being rabidly anti-nationalist, they are liberals but slightly weird liberals. They favor labor reform, reduction of red tape, liberalization of the economy, etc... but conversely are for a very strong welfare state.
Liberalizing the market produces more wealth to redistribute. It sounds quite effective to me.
People are really teaching those obnoxious Catalan nationalists a lesson :w00t:
Languishites vote with their penis. :)
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/032/0/8330828/il_340x270.551333134_7j30.jpg)
He's the right wing of our right wing party. He even ran on a FN-esque anti-immigrant platform when he became major of my hometown. I actually sort of know him, he was my neighbor growing up. He's a rather unpleasant fellow, to be honest.
She's that guy's predecessor as head of PP in Catalonia. She has a pretty weird face. Too much surgery, I guess.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F1252581%2Fimages%2Fr-SANCHEZ-CAMACHO-large570.jpg&hash=cf593d77708e9602784fa2c8381d616a9f0be256)
Naw just anti-establishment.
I liked how serious he was about leaning on banisters.
I'm sure they're in fact all secessionist scum and thus I'm sure I hope they all die, but he's got a good look.
#5 is exactly like Quebec Solidaire over here. #2 and #6 look exactly like Option Nationale and the Parti Québécois. #7 would be similar to the Coallition Avenir Québec and the rest of the unionist would be included in the Parti Libéral du Québec. Only the names and percentages were changed to protect the innocent... :D
Maybe a statist liberal like Raz or Ide.
Euro liberals are not the same deal.
In the sense that 5% tax is radical laissez-faire capitalism but 6% is a centralized planned Soviet economy sure :P
I will be praying to non-Nationalist Jesus that she achieves this goal.
Something about politics and strange bedfellows.
and results were horrendous.
Anyways, lets hope the liberty-faction wins.
Oh? Is there abuse of liberty going on? I was not aware civil rights were a factor in this election.
yeah yeah, we all know you're firmly on the side of the imperialists.
I am on the side of individual rights and liberties. You are on the side of ethnic mobs.
I cannot help but notice you 'pro-liberty' types do not support the self determination of Syrians to live in whatever European Country they choose to.
that's because they have their own country. and ou're in denial about human nature.
Yes, but they will likely work something out due to financial reasons. I think Andorran teams are playing in the Spanish league as well.
You can rest easy. She's not gay (openly at least).
This guy in particular was actually the very first Spanish MP to come out of the closet, ten years ago.
I'm guessing #4.
one may hope.
That said: from what I've been reading it's not like Madrid hasn't been going out if it's way to piss of the Catalans in about every conceivable way. From alluding to military aggression over defacto rendering Catalunya's devolved powers meaningless by opposing everything the local government enacted to denying rights guaranteed to every Spaniard (which the Catalans still are, and apparently could stay according to the constitution) and being called out on it (http://english.vilaweb.cat/noticies/rajoy-unable-to-argue-why-the-catalans-would-no-longer-be-european-citizens-during-a-radio-interview/). And of course the mudslinging in the press. But I don't think we can expect anything more from the press anyways, regardless of nationality.
Regardless, with all that's being going on the past few years -globally- I'd like to know who the asshole was who thought it might be funny to live in interesting times. :mad:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lasexta.com%2Fclipping%2F2015%2F04%2F22%2F00418%2F30.jpg&hash=adb9478c4e65ed214378397dec1170dbd6637ce3)
:weep:
worst possible scenario as nothing is clear
Does it seem likely now that the separatist parties have a majority that they'll vote to separate from Spain? And if they do vote that way is it actually doable to leave Spain very easily?
Marry? I'd settle for bang. :P
Nothing weird about it, Languish joke from way back.
So are there no installations controlled by the Spanish government in Catalonia? How they are going to do so unilaterally? Just show up with guns and seize them all?
bullying would only prove to the independence-group they've been right all along.
So a nice response by Spain would change the independence-group's mind?
it might be one step of many to convince them that Spain is serious about rooting out anti-Catalan sentiment.
But given Spain's history towards the region (both recent and not so recent) I doubt the country can convince anyone, especially not if the PP is in power.
Just speaking from watching Canada's situation vis-a-vis Quebec...
It's a delicate balancing act. Clearly pulling a hard line is just going to play into the independence-sides hand, but so does an overly obsequious response as well (as in "hey look out how well voting for independence parties worked for us!"). You just have to try a "business as normal" approach and not get drawn into petty nationalist fights.
It seems to me that since the Conservatives' way replaced the Liberal's hardline way, the seperatis movement has been weakened. Sovereignty is below 30%* in polls and the PQ has been unable to obtain a majority since, only forming government once, when fatigue for the provincial Liberal government was very high.
Elect the NDP or the Liberals, and things could change quickly.
*26% of the population support the idea that the PQ should hold a referendum on independance: Link (http://www.ledevoir.com/galeries-photos/sondage-leger-marketing-le-devoir-referendum-les-quebecois-ne-sont-pas-presses)
I don't think the Conservatives have been "hardlined". They've mostly stayed out of QUebec provincial politics.
I was thinking more of Mulroney's efforts to do or say anything to get Quebec's signature on the Constitution, which blew up pretty spectacularly and led to soveregnists moment of near-victory.
Spain is rewriting its constitution no? Well there you go.
Well, the crux of the question is in which direction the constitution will be rewritten. Decentralization needs reform, everybody agrees, it was sort of improvised and its badly designed in a lot of levels. But getting everybody to agree to a model will be hard. Given the sectarianism that ravages our political arena, I can't see the kind of grand bargain that could smooth things out.
Pity.
Because celebrities should only be asked their opinion if they are from that ethnic or country group?
It seems pretty out of the blue unless she has some kind of tie to the region.
Being curious as to why is not the same as making a demand that nothing every happen garbon :lol:
Yep.
I think that might just say more about your experience with twitter.
But she actually had an opinion on it which suggests she was following it. So why does it offend you I ask what the source of that interest was?
Cher's source of interest? Your question seemed to be why would someone ask a celebrity with no ties to the region about their opinion. I don't have an issue with you asking that but as I said seems like a lack of understanding how people interact on twitter. People ask celebrities random questions all the time and up to celebrity if they want to respond or not.
I think many celebrities, and in particular Cher, are much more like everyday people on twitter. So if their account isn't professionally managed, they'll comment on things that have no connection to them.
Yes and the sky is blue. So? The only reason I am commenting on this election is because celedhring is my bud and he made this thread where we learned a bit about it. I did not get a random tweet from a guy in eastern Tanzania asking me about a local mayoral race. I mean I have a personal connection to what is going on in Catalonia. If somebody asked me why I care I would have a reason. So I was just curious if she had some kind of connection to the region as she had no obvious one. I did not say I disapproved of her being asked or that she answered just that I was puzzled by it.
I thought she was just plastic by now
I have a notion. Tweet her and ask. :D
That would involve using Twitter and I swore to stop doing that awhile back :blush:
seems madrid is getting desperate
Here I thought the once weighty matter of nations had come down to electoneering farcical garbage where you just had to get a 50.1% of the vote once to win eternal victory. But I guess I was wrong you do not even need a 50.1% majority. You can declare independence with a minority mandate.
What a farce. Catalonia should be ashamed of itself. A bad joke being created right when nation states are heading to the dust bin of history.
Something will come out, political ammunition for PP towards the national elections.
You really have to consider joining the tinfoil hat brigade for things like this (registering this initiative just before the national elections), it's as if both PP and the separatists had some kind of wink wink agreement to fan the flames right before elections to favour the other side.
lol, rather the opposite.
True. We've too many living fossils / newly born 'old souls.'
I kind of see the current return to nationalism or social conservatism in some countries as akin to the 1815 restoration or the efforts of the Luddites. Eventually change will overtake them.
Countries weren't created with 50%+1 votes either. In many cases, they were created, they expanded or they maintained themselves at the point of a bayonnet, or for the older ones, swords and lances. In most countries, the Constitution can be changed by less than 100% of the states/provinces/regions via a dubious democratic process and then, everyone is stuck with it. Even worst, it ain't done by a referendum, yet, it is totally acceptable to shackle a nation by the weight of the majority in the country, especially if they're of a different culture. In one example that comes to mind, I can not imagine Canada changing its Constitution and ignoring the fact that Alberta rejects the changes. I could not conceive Canada changing the rules for a Constitution change and ignoring Ontario's opposition to the measure. Yet somehow, we're told that if we want to seperate, it has to be done by Canada's will, something the new government has already announced it would never agree to, even if 95% of Quebec were to vote for independance. But that is democracy. 50%+1, used everywhere else for every vote is just ok, except to seperate a nation from a country.
I'm sorry, this is bullshit.
The Liberal Party governs with less than 40% of the popular vote, yet, they can effect broad changes to the way this country is governed. They can change the electoral system to rig it to their advantage, they can starve provinces to coherce them to accept their changes, they can pressure foreign diplomats to cut ties with specific provinces, they can cuddle extremists or bomb them at will with 39,5% support. They decide any member of the PQ is now a terrorist and detain them for a an unspecified lenght of time by using every legal loopholes at their disposal and changing the laws when it need to. It's not like they refrained from doing it in the past.
All of this and more is legit with 39,5% of the vote. But independance of a nation with 50%+1 is worst than what Hitler did the Jews.
There's nothing different between a Catalan rejecting Spanish central authority than an Algerian rejecting French authority. Were Algerians morons for refusing French rules? Were Americans disloyal for not respecting the British parliament authority? I don't think so. People accumulate grievances over time, people evolve, start feeling differently, sometimes language is an issue, sometimes it's something else. I see nothing wrong with that.
Good. I would enjoy that.
Indeed. But it is the current state of the constitution of a state that matters not events that happened centuries ago.
Indeed and for obvious reasons. Creation of a country is not a constitutional act, it is a revolutionary one. A constitutional act can be changed or reversed or re-negotiated. The creation of a sovereign state is irreversible and forever. It is not like some election where the 0.2% undecided people can go 'ok that didn't go well I will vote for the Unionists next time.' You are asking people to make a drastic and irreversible decision that will impact international politics for years if not centuries. It cannot be done lightly and cannot be compared to any old internal passing of a law of changes in a government structure which can be shown to be failures and undone without too much trouble down the road. In those cases that 0.2% undecideds can flip the decision next time.
As a revolutionary act I think it requires two things to be legitimate in my eyes, the Valmy doctrine if you will :P
1. The central government must have committed abuses on the individual rights of the people of the province that are fundamentally unacceptable. A violation that justifies taking extreme action. This might include making it illegal to perform certain cultural practices, use a local language, practice religion, rights to property, right to not be slaughtered in a pogrom and so forth. And further that these abuses cannot be corrected via the normal and expected levers of government.
2. The revolution should be shown to be supported by an overwhelming majority of the population. And if fundamental and unacceptable violations are occurring it must be the case that an overwhelming majority would be convinced of that.
Numerous new nations have been created over the past 40 years that have met both of these requirements. This is a political revolution and should be treated as such, it should not be given the same level of consideration as the newest city dogshit ordinance.
No it isn't.
Legit maybe, is it just is another question. But that is a matter for Canadians to debate.
Nonsense. Hitler waged a political revolution with only 33% support. -_-
Yes there is. Democracy and Republican government are impossible under this divisive and destructive doctrine.
I can not remember when the US Southern States voted for the abolition of slavery, yet, it became a fact. It was not democratic in any way, since the Federal government had to forcefully reintegrate them in the Constitutional Union, expel opponents and place people sympathetic to their cause to get these post war amendments to pass.
The 1867 Constitution (British North American Act) was an act of freewill of sort: you chose between remaining a standalone British colony or you chose to unite yourself with other colonies to protect your borders against a possible American invasion. It was a simple vote in the parliament of the time, where English was the only language authorized, in a French province. It won by two votes. These people were certainly not representative of the Quebec population at the time and they were predominently loyalist descendents.
So, what a particular Constitution says in regards to independance or autonomy of its constituants, I tend to not put that much Faith into that. If a Constitution says discrimination against blacks is legal and any contestation of that is a crime, is it a legit Constitution? At a time, it would have been so in many places in the world.
But still. Beyond the Constitution of a country, there is international law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/self_determination_international_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination
Spain, like Canada, has already announced it would never recognize independance of one of its constituants. That puts both countries in violation of international law on the subject.
The British government, despite the obvious lie about change (where's the change? :) )during the campaign acted like a mature and responsible government: negotiate before hand how things will be done. That Canadian and Spanish governement simply acted like pricks. I think that warrants the Catalan decision. I much prefer a referendum to determine independance, but in any case, Spain would never agree to it.
The French government never did anything like this against the Algerians either. Or against the people of Indochina. Not on a large scale, actually. I don't think the British mass slaugthered Afghanis or Egyptians, yet they seeked independance.
*The way the Southerners saw things, slaves were property. Forbidding slavey = attack on rights of property. Therefore, the South was justified in its secession of the US... interesting. Lettow would be pleased of you :P
Numerous new nations have been created over the past 100 years that have not met both of these requirements.
Numerous new nations have been created over the past 500 years that have not met both of these requirements.
Yet, suddenly, a new rule should be invented.
If you refuse independance to a people instead of negotiating, what you see is stuff like this. More&more people flock to the cause and they radicalize themselves. Next, the Spanish government sends in the army and they're surprise the people react violently.
Yeah because divided ourselves up into more and more states has got to be a win, no?
Well then when more and more people flock to the cause they can have a 75% mandate with a long list of grievances. But they are not waiting for that are they?
In smaller states nobody ever disagrees with each other.
Mono culture?
Many smaller states are less efficient but more stable and resistant to shock.
The cool people agree.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fx300_zpsf0ipzwzh.jpg&hash=f67a3ef268acd6c281bb8516207281c5ed1cb632) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/Slayhem/media/x300_zpsf0ipzwzh.jpg.html)
:lol:
Let us start by abolishing the SAR in Hong Kong. :)
Or a trully multi-ethnic/cultural government when a country is composed of many cultures, but you usually don't see that. I don't think I've seen it in history either, where the dominant culture agrees to share power equally with its minorities.
They should wait until they have a reason to be independent and have convinced most of the people that that is a good idea.
So what happens next? Flip a coin? :unsure:
See? Everybody wins.
fun times.
Instead of just one thread you'll now have the opportunity to post more -probably
Question: Catalonia regional election: who would you vote for?
Option 1: 
votes: 43
votes: 43
Option 2: 
votes: 1
votes: 1
Option 3: 
votes: 2
votes: 2
Option 4: 
votes: 1
votes: 1
Option 5: 
votes: 0
votes: 0
Option 6: 
votes: 3
votes: 3
Option 7: 
votes: 1
votes: 1
Title: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 07:51:32 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 07:51:32 AM
In four weeks, we'll be holding a regional election here in Catalonia. The two main nationalist parties have merged, together with a plethora of smaller separatist parties, and formed an united separatist front. Their platform is to declare unilateral independence within 9-18 months if they achieve a majority. Polls show them just short of that, but they might achieve it if they get the support of a smaller separatist party that's not part of the front.
But why worry about the particulars? Here you have the chance of voting for any of our candidates based on their looks only.
But why worry about the particulars? Here you have the chance of voting for any of our candidates based on their looks only.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 24, 2015, 07:55:42 AM
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 24, 2015, 07:55:42 AM
Voted for Hollande because I think he's doing a good job in France.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 08:06:11 AM
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 08:06:11 AM
I like to vote on attractiveness and this is hard.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Maladict on August 24, 2015, 08:09:21 AM
Post by: Maladict on August 24, 2015, 08:09:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2015, 08:06:11 AM
I like to vote on attractiveness and this is hard.
tmi
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Liep on August 24, 2015, 08:10:24 AM
Post by: Liep on August 24, 2015, 08:10:24 AM
I predict a landslide election for #1.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 08:11:39 AM
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 08:11:39 AM
Quote from: Maladict on August 24, 2015, 08:09:21 AMQuote from: garbon on August 24, 2015, 08:06:11 AM
I like to vote on attractiveness and this is hard.
tmi
This many years in, is it really?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Monoriu on August 24, 2015, 08:12:02 AM
Post by: Monoriu on August 24, 2015, 08:12:02 AM
One of the easiest polls that I have seen :lol:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 08:15:32 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 08:15:32 AM
We Catalans aren't attractive :(
#1 was born in Andalucía.
#1 was born in Andalucía.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2015, 08:17:34 AM
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2015, 08:17:34 AM
The first one is a young and attractive woman so probably radically left wing and insane.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 08:22:11 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 08:22:11 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 24, 2015, 08:17:34 AM
The first one is a young and attractive woman so probably radically left wing and insane.
She's a liberal, you're safe.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2015, 08:33:59 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2015, 08:33:59 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2015, 08:06:11 AM
I like to vote on attractiveness andthis is hard.
Quote from: MonoOne of the easiest polls that I have seen
:P
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Grey Fox on August 24, 2015, 08:53:36 AM
Post by: Grey Fox on August 24, 2015, 08:53:36 AM
Holland can run 2 countries?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
I'm voting for the last guy.
Really men - is it so hard to wear a suit and a tie when running for office?
Really men - is it so hard to wear a suit and a tie when running for office?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Legbiter on August 24, 2015, 09:20:29 AM
Post by: Legbiter on August 24, 2015, 09:20:29 AM
Number 1 is ok.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Brazen on August 24, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
Post by: Brazen on August 24, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
Number 2. He looks like an archaeologist.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Legbiter on August 24, 2015, 09:25:39 AM
Post by: Legbiter on August 24, 2015, 09:25:39 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 24, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
Number 2. He looks like an archaeologist.
Bet he could kill us stone dead from boredom at 60 paces explaining dialectical materialism.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:27:55 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:27:55 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
I'm voting for the last guy.
Really men - is it so hard to wear a suit and a tie when running for office?
Except that guy and a couple of others, they are all left wingers :P
The suitless photo-op to look more relatable to the voter is pretty popular around here though.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: viper37 on August 24, 2015, 09:37:01 AM
Post by: viper37 on August 24, 2015, 09:37:01 AM
Quote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 07:51:32 AMif there was any doubt on the composition of Languish, I think this poll just revealed it :P
But why worry about the particulars? Here you have the chance of voting for any of our candidates based on their looks only.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:44:51 AM
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: Liep on August 24, 2015, 08:10:24 AM
I predict a landslide election for #1.
No kidding. Even if I am considering voting for her, as of the guys, only the second to last is even remotely fuckable.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:48:42 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:48:42 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:44:51 AMQuote from: Liep on August 24, 2015, 08:10:24 AM
I predict a landslide election for #1.
No kidding. Even if I am considering voting for her, as of the guys, only the second to last is even remotely fuckable.
The Spanish general election will be 2-3 months later, and it looks like there will be at least a couple of hot/cute guys running for that one.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2015, 09:55:12 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2015, 09:55:12 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:44:51 AM
No kidding. Even if I am considering voting for her, as of the guys, only the second to last is even remotely fuckable.
I thought gays were supposed to have lower standards than chicks? :hmm:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:57:33 AM
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:57:33 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 24, 2015, 09:55:12 AMQuote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:44:51 AM
No kidding. Even if I am considering voting for her, as of the guys, only the second to last is even remotely fuckable.
I thought gays were supposed to have lower standards than chicks? :hmm:
Since when? It's quite the opposite. Gays are men and men are much more focused on looks than women (who go for status symbols, security, or "love").
Just look at a typical lesbian - most men wouldn't even touch that.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:58:35 AM
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:58:35 AM
Quote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:48:42 AMQuote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:44:51 AMQuote from: Liep on August 24, 2015, 08:10:24 AM
I predict a landslide election for #1.
No kidding. Even if I am considering voting for her, as of the guys, only the second to last is even remotely fuckable.
The Spanish general election will be 2-3 months later, and it looks like there will be at least a couple of hot/cute guys running for that one.
:cheers:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:00:12 AM
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:00:12 AM
Quote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:27:55 AMQuote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
I'm voting for the last guy.
Really men - is it so hard to wear a suit and a tie when running for office?
Except that guy and a couple of others, they are all left wingers :P
The suitless photo-op to look more relatable to the voter is pretty popular around here though.
I don't want my politician to be someone I can have a beer with - I want a smart and talented leader.
Which may explain my fondness for Harper. :hmm:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 10:01:15 AM
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:00:12 AMQuote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:27:55 AMQuote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
I'm voting for the last guy.
Really men - is it so hard to wear a suit and a tie when running for office?
Except that guy and a couple of others, they are all left wingers :P
The suitless photo-op to look more relatable to the voter is pretty popular around here though.
I don't want my politician to be someone I can have a beer with - I want a smart and talented leader.
Which may explain my fondness for Harper. :hmm:
So, given that we had beer with some of us, does it mean you consider us dumb and talentless? :mad:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2015, 10:06:40 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2015, 10:06:40 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:57:33 AM
Since when? It's quite the opposite. Gays are men and men are much more focused on looks than women (who go for status symbols, security, or "love").
Just look at a typical lesbian - most men wouldn't even touch that.
Well, the stereotype is that men are more about quantity than quality comparatively. So at the end of the night the fugs get more consideration.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:07:45 AM
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:07:45 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 10:01:15 AMQuote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:00:12 AMQuote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:27:55 AMQuote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
I'm voting for the last guy.
Really men - is it so hard to wear a suit and a tie when running for office?
Except that guy and a couple of others, they are all left wingers :P
The suitless photo-op to look more relatable to the voter is pretty popular around here though.
I don't want my politician to be someone I can have a beer with - I want a smart and talented leader.
Which may explain my fondness for Harper. :hmm:
So, given that we had beer with some of us, does it mean you consider us dumb and talentless? :mad:
I was unaware that you were a politician. :hmm:
Clearly, I do prefer that my drinking buddies be people that I want to have a beer with. :)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 11:00:05 AM
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 11:00:05 AM
I am not sure we have any politicians - though I would assume no politician would want to advertise the fact that he or she posts on Languish.
If there ever is a Languish user data leak, that would top that cheating site scandal. :lol:
If there ever is a Languish user data leak, that would top that cheating site scandal. :lol:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2015, 11:02:13 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2015, 11:02:13 AM
Hortlund maybe. :ph34r:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 11:08:26 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 11:08:26 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:58:35 AMQuote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:48:42 AMQuote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 09:44:51 AMQuote from: Liep on August 24, 2015, 08:10:24 AM
I predict a landslide election for #1.
No kidding. Even if I am considering voting for her, as of the guys, only the second to last is even remotely fuckable.
The Spanish general election will be 2-3 months later, and it looks like there will be at least a couple of hot/cute guys running for that one.
:cheers:
Advance preview:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.silviaalbert.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2FPedro-S%25C3%25A1nchez.jpg&hash=b06c5f01b190ccbf30b78ca15c8bf2f2fcffc646)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 11:27:35 AM
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 11:27:35 AM
Not my type.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2015, 11:28:01 AM
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2015, 11:28:01 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 11:27:35 AM
Not my type.
Too Latin-y?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 11:31:54 AM
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 11:31:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 24, 2015, 11:28:01 AMQuote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 11:27:35 AM
Not my type.
Too Latin-y?
Well, I like some Latino men, but not the "Antonio Banderas" type.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 01:58:45 PM
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 01:58:45 PM
I went for the guy with glasses that doesn't look like Hollande as some fun might be hiding under there.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2015, 02:08:21 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2015, 02:08:21 PM
It's soooo predictable to vote for the cutie, but there really aren't any good alternatives here.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 02:10:47 PM
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 02:10:47 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2015, 01:58:45 PM
I went for the guy with glasses that doesn't look like Hollande as some fun might be hiding under there.
I count three guys with glasses.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Tonitrus on August 24, 2015, 02:13:30 PM
Post by: Tonitrus on August 24, 2015, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2015, 02:08:21 PM
It's soooo predictable to vote for the cutie, but there really aren't any good alternatives here.
So what you're saying is that you need a full-body shot so that you can evaluate the legs? :P
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2015, 02:14:40 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2015, 02:14:40 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 24, 2015, 02:13:30 PM
So what you're saying is that you need a full-body shot so that you can evaluate the legs? :P
Are you offering? :)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Tonitrus on August 24, 2015, 02:15:43 PM
Post by: Tonitrus on August 24, 2015, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2015, 02:14:40 PMQuote from: Tonitrus on August 24, 2015, 02:13:30 PM
So what you're saying is that you need a full-body shot so that you can evaluate the legs? :P
Are you offering? :)
I will let you do your own Google work (yes, I already have though). :sleep:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 02:38:36 PM
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 02:38:36 PM
Incidentally, the cutie is in a dead heat for 2nd place with candidate #5, according to most polls.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2015, 02:40:06 PM
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2015, 02:40:06 PM
Oh good. Autonomists are acceptable.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 02:40:27 PM
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 02:40:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 02:10:47 PMQuote from: garbon on August 24, 2015, 01:58:45 PM
I went for the guy with glasses that doesn't look like Hollande as some fun might be hiding under there.
I count three guys with glasses.
I'll admit that I really just blazed through the fuglies as my initial statement just said guy with glasses. -_-
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 02:43:24 PM
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 02:43:24 PM
Quote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 02:38:36 PM
Incidentally, the cutie is in a dead heat for 2nd place with candidate #5, according to most polls.
Who is #6?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 02:51:20 PM
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 02:51:20 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 02:43:24 PMQuote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 02:38:36 PM
Incidentally, the cutie is in a dead heat for 2nd place with candidate #5, according to most polls.
Who is #6?
You are number two.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 02:53:24 PM
Post by: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 02:53:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 02:43:24 PMQuote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 02:38:36 PM
Incidentally, the cutie is in a dead heat for 2nd place with candidate #5, according to most polls.
Who is #6?
The "lead" of the separatist front.
It's a bit complicated, the true leaders of the two main separatist parties that make up the front reached a compromise to put and independent at the top of the list. This guy is a left wing activist. Since there's also a Syriza-like far left front running (#5) that might steal the protest vote off them, they went with a known leftist as the main face of the separatist list.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 02:53:30 PM
Post by: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 02:53:30 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 02:43:24 PMQuote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 02:38:36 PM
Incidentally, the cutie is in a dead heat for 2nd place with candidate #5, according to most polls.
Who is #6?
You are number two.
What do you mean?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 02:54:24 PM
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2015, 02:54:24 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elcorreo.com%2Fnoticias%2F201507%2F24%2Fmedia%2Fcortadas%2Fnadar--490x578.jpg&hash=3f936b111d44d3083cbbbaa63358e55dff8665d9)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 03:02:02 PM
Post by: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 03:02:02 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 02:53:30 PMQuote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 02:43:24 PMQuote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 02:38:36 PM
Incidentally, the cutie is in a dead heat for 2nd place with candidate #5, according to most polls.
Who is #6?
You are number two.
What do you mean?
The correct answer was "I am not a number, I am a free man!" :(
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 25, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 25, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on August 24, 2015, 09:25:39 AMQuote from: Brazen on August 24, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
Number 2. He looks like an archaeologist.
Bet he could kill us stone dead from boredom at 60 paces explaining dialectical materialism.
Yup, he's a far left journalist/writer. He's easily the leftiest candidate in the list. The leave the EU, leave NATO, collectivize everything, let's-dance-around-the-funeral-pyre-of-capitalism, type. They are not even communists, that's *too* establishment, but a weird mix of post-communism and post-anarchism.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.e-noticies.com%2Fimg%2F20150503%2Fscreensnapz003_457.jpg&hash=c89b8e02b968888c32fa4011816f3ee6a4acf6af)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 25, 2015, 07:59:49 AM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 25, 2015, 07:59:49 AM
Quote from: celedhring on August 25, 2015, 07:50:57 AMAh, so he's north-koreanQuote from: Legbiter on August 24, 2015, 09:25:39 AMQuote from: Brazen on August 24, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
Number 2. He looks like an archaeologist.
Bet he could kill us stone dead from boredom at 60 paces explaining dialectical materialism.
Yup, he's a far left journalist/writer. He's easily the leftiest candidate in the list. The leave the EU, leave NATO, collectivize everything, let's-dance-around-the-funeral-pyre-of-capitalism, type. They are not even communists, that's *too* establishment, but a weird mix of post-communism and post-anarchism.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Larch on August 25, 2015, 09:56:38 AM
Post by: The Larch on August 25, 2015, 09:56:38 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:00:12 AMQuote from: celedhring on August 24, 2015, 09:27:55 AMQuote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
I'm voting for the last guy.
Really men - is it so hard to wear a suit and a tie when running for office?
Except that guy and a couple of others, they are all left wingers :P
The suitless photo-op to look more relatable to the voter is pretty popular around here though.
I don't want my politician to be someone I can have a beer with - I want a smart and talented leader.
Which may explain my fondness for Harper. :hmm:
Given the way some of the Catalan intelligentsia dress I don't think that the suit+tie litmust test is a valid one. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs03.s3c.es%2Fimag%2F_v0%2F225x250%2F0%2F7%2F9%2Fsala-martin-rosa.jpg&hash=45bb93e3fa1fc9c01ebfcffe03f62b76060a5e83)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs.libertaddigital.com%2Ffotos%2Fnoticias%2Fsalaimarti-rey.jpg&hash=886dc7e1c43b33d3e7042be1042f3bc10a590a96)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.innovaspain.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F07%2FXavier-Sala-i-Martin.jpg&hash=1c2291699fcd0c8d6a10c3e5d72055a50d303dad)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 25, 2015, 10:04:49 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 25, 2015, 10:04:49 AM
He's a pretty extreme case, Larchie :lol:
Funnily, he teaches at both of my alma maters; Pompeu Fabra in Barcelona and Columbia in New York. I used to go to Columbia's gym wearing Barça shirts, and he did the same. That's how we "recognized" each other as Catalans. :cool:
Funnily, he teaches at both of my alma maters; Pompeu Fabra in Barcelona and Columbia in New York. I used to go to Columbia's gym wearing Barça shirts, and he did the same. That's how we "recognized" each other as Catalans. :cool:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Larch on August 25, 2015, 10:10:42 AM
Post by: The Larch on August 25, 2015, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: celedhring on August 25, 2015, 10:04:49 AM
He's a pretty extreme case, Larchie :lol:
He's a funny one, though. :lol:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Maximus on August 26, 2015, 02:11:27 PM
Post by: Maximus on August 26, 2015, 02:11:27 PM
First pic doesn't show for me :(
There's nothing about a suit that says smart and talented. If anything it's the opposite.
There's nothing about a suit that says smart and talented. If anything it's the opposite.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Larch on August 26, 2015, 02:24:56 PM
Post by: The Larch on August 26, 2015, 02:24:56 PM
Quote from: Maximus on August 26, 2015, 02:11:27 PM
First pic doesn't show for me :(
Another pic:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gaceta.es%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2F668x300%2Fpublic%2Fentrevista2.png%3Fitok%3DNigeuY2d&hash=ec13f6ebf94cb208cf568c233db06eddf27d8f4c)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2015, 02:26:46 PM
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2015, 02:26:46 PM
He might mean the pics of men with suits.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2015, 02:27:42 PM
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2015, 02:27:42 PM
Happy to say that based on what I have seen I would seriously consider voting for her party if I was Catalan.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Maximus on August 26, 2015, 02:28:47 PM
Post by: Maximus on August 26, 2015, 02:28:47 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 26, 2015, 02:24:56 PM:thumbsup: Seems like I've seen her somewhere before.
Another pic:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gaceta.es%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2F668x300%2Fpublic%2Fentrevista2.png%3Fitok%3DNigeuY2d&hash=ec13f6ebf94cb208cf568c233db06eddf27d8f4c)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 26, 2015, 02:41:12 PM
Post by: celedhring on August 26, 2015, 02:41:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 26, 2015, 02:27:42 PM
Happy to say that based on what I have seen I would seriously consider voting for her party if I was Catalan.
Besides being rabidly anti-nationalist, they are liberals but slightly weird liberals. They favor labor reform, reduction of red tape, liberalization of the economy, etc... but conversely are for a very strong welfare state.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2015, 02:44:01 PM
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2015, 02:44:01 PM
Hey nobody's perfect.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Razgovory on August 26, 2015, 04:42:54 PM
Post by: Razgovory on August 26, 2015, 04:42:54 PM
I'm okay with that. European Nationalism is fairly lousy.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 27, 2015, 09:51:08 PM
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 27, 2015, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: celedhring on August 26, 2015, 02:41:12 PMQuote from: Valmy on August 26, 2015, 02:27:42 PM
Happy to say that based on what I have seen I would seriously consider voting for her party if I was Catalan.
Besides being rabidly anti-nationalist, they are liberals but slightly weird liberals. They favor labor reform, reduction of red tape, liberalization of the economy, etc... but conversely are for a very strong welfare state.
Liberalizing the market produces more wealth to redistribute. It sounds quite effective to me.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 28, 2015, 02:18:56 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 28, 2015, 02:18:56 AM
They sound a bit pie-in-the-sky to me. When asked about how they'll fund their welfare plans while not increasing taxes they always wave their magic wand and say "we'll be more efficient!".
Some of their stuff looks very expensive. They want to implement a rather high minimum wage, but instead of putting the burden on the employer, it would be the state who would pay the difference. That sounds quite expensive to me (and probably would give incentives to businesses to actually pay lower wages, since the taxpayer would pick up the tab).
For the Catalan election, they have just proposed to give out free school books to all students. According to their own calculations, that's 1% of the regional budget gone, right there.
I'm a leftie, so I quite agree with those things if we can tax people accordingly :mmm: but they won't. So I believe they'd eventually backtrack on their welfare proposals, if elected.
Some of their stuff looks very expensive. They want to implement a rather high minimum wage, but instead of putting the burden on the employer, it would be the state who would pay the difference. That sounds quite expensive to me (and probably would give incentives to businesses to actually pay lower wages, since the taxpayer would pick up the tab).
For the Catalan election, they have just proposed to give out free school books to all students. According to their own calculations, that's 1% of the regional budget gone, right there.
I'm a leftie, so I quite agree with those things if we can tax people accordingly :mmm: but they won't. So I believe they'd eventually backtrack on their welfare proposals, if elected.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Caliga on August 28, 2015, 08:40:57 AM
Post by: Caliga on August 28, 2015, 08:40:57 AM
Poll results are hilarious :lol:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on August 28, 2015, 08:41:39 AM
Post by: Valmy on August 28, 2015, 08:41:39 AM
Quote from: Caliga on August 28, 2015, 08:40:57 AM
Poll results are hilarious :lol:
People are really teaching those obnoxious Catalan nationalists a lesson :w00t:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Tonitrus on August 28, 2015, 07:37:56 PM
Post by: Tonitrus on August 28, 2015, 07:37:56 PM
Quote from: Caliga on August 28, 2015, 08:40:57 AM
Poll results are hilarious :lol:
Languishites vote with their penis. :)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Josquius on August 29, 2015, 08:05:54 AM
Post by: Josquius on August 29, 2015, 08:05:54 AM
Girl was tempting but went with 3rd one down for how wonderfully photogenic he is.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 29, 2015, 08:16:02 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 29, 2015, 08:16:02 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 29, 2015, 08:05:54 AM
Girl was tempting but went with 3rd one down for how wonderfully photogenic he is.
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/032/0/8330828/il_340x270.551333134_7j30.jpg)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 29, 2015, 08:24:15 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 29, 2015, 08:24:15 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 29, 2015, 08:05:54 AM
Girl was tempting but went with 3rd one down for how wonderfully photogenic he is.
He's the right wing of our right wing party. He even ran on a FN-esque anti-immigrant platform when he became major of my hometown. I actually sort of know him, he was my neighbor growing up. He's a rather unpleasant fellow, to be honest.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Josquius on August 29, 2015, 09:02:48 AM
Post by: Josquius on August 29, 2015, 09:02:48 AM
Quote from: celedhring on August 29, 2015, 08:24:15 AMThat would explain the clearly fake smile.Quote from: Tyr on August 29, 2015, 08:05:54 AM
Girl was tempting but went with 3rd one down for how wonderfully photogenic he is.
He's the right wing of our right wing party. He even ran on a FN-esque anti-immigrant platform when he became major of my hometown. I actually sort of know him, he was my neighbor growing up. He's a rather unpleasant fellow, to be honest.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Larch on August 29, 2015, 02:30:38 PM
Post by: The Larch on August 29, 2015, 02:30:38 PM
He's also freakishly tall (he actually used to be a professional basketball player).
(https://xaviercasals.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/xavier_garcia_albiol_primero_derecha_junto_sanchez-camacho_fernandez_diaz.jpg)
(https://xaviercasals.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/xavier_garcia_albiol_primero_derecha_junto_sanchez-camacho_fernandez_diaz.jpg)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Josquius on August 29, 2015, 02:43:48 PM
Post by: Josquius on August 29, 2015, 02:43:48 PM
What a sad looking lady.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Larch on August 29, 2015, 02:49:24 PM
Post by: The Larch on August 29, 2015, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 29, 2015, 02:43:48 PM
What a sad looking lady.
She's that guy's predecessor as head of PP in Catalonia. She has a pretty weird face. Too much surgery, I guess.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F1252581%2Fimages%2Fr-SANCHEZ-CAMACHO-large570.jpg&hash=cf593d77708e9602784fa2c8381d616a9f0be256)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Brain on August 29, 2015, 03:29:07 PM
Post by: The Brain on August 29, 2015, 03:29:07 PM
Or too little. Yikes.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: 11B4V on August 29, 2015, 03:37:08 PM
Post by: 11B4V on August 29, 2015, 03:37:08 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 28, 2015, 07:37:56 PMQuote from: Caliga on August 28, 2015, 08:40:57 AM
Poll results are hilarious :lol:
Languishites vote with their penis. :)
Naw just anti-establishment.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Ideologue on August 30, 2015, 03:13:36 AM
Post by: Ideologue on August 30, 2015, 03:13:36 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 24, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
Number 2. He looks like an archaeologist.
I liked how serious he was about leaning on banisters.
I'm sure they're in fact all secessionist scum and thus I'm sure I hope they all die, but he's got a good look.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 30, 2015, 03:21:36 AM
Post by: celedhring on August 30, 2015, 03:21:36 AM
#2 and #6 are the secessionist candidates. #6 tops the list of the united secessionist front, made-up of the two big center-left and center-right nationalist parties, and #2 tops the list of the really fringe lefty nationalist party.
#7 is a nationalist moderate (non-secessionist), christian-democrat.
#5 is "we are not secessionists neither unionists, what matters is the PLIGHT OF THE PEOPLE!". Fact is that their list has candidates from both sides - theirs is a coalition of several lefty parties - so they try not to dwell too much in the national issue.
Rest are unionists.
#7 is a nationalist moderate (non-secessionist), christian-democrat.
#5 is "we are not secessionists neither unionists, what matters is the PLIGHT OF THE PEOPLE!". Fact is that their list has candidates from both sides - theirs is a coalition of several lefty parties - so they try not to dwell too much in the national issue.
Rest are unionists.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: viper37 on August 31, 2015, 04:19:06 PM
Post by: viper37 on August 31, 2015, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: celedhring on August 30, 2015, 03:21:36 AMit is amazing how politics tend to be similar from place to place, sometimes.
#2 and #6 are the secessionist candidates. #6 tops the list of the united secessionist front, made-up of the two big center-left and center-right nationalist parties, and #2 tops the list of the really fringe lefty nationalist party.
#7 is a nationalist moderate (non-secessionist), christian-democrat.
#5 is "we are not secessionists neither unionists, what matters is the PLIGHT OF THE PEOPLE!". Fact is that their list has candidates from both sides - theirs is a coalition of several lefty parties - so they try not to dwell too much in the national issue.
Rest are unionists.
#5 is exactly like Quebec Solidaire over here. #2 and #6 look exactly like Option Nationale and the Parti Québécois. #7 would be similar to the Coallition Avenir Québec and the rest of the unionist would be included in the Parti Libéral du Québec. Only the names and percentages were changed to protect the innocent... :D
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on August 31, 2015, 04:42:05 PM
Post by: celedhring on August 31, 2015, 04:42:05 PM
Regarding the three unionist parties, #1 are liberals, #3 are conservatives and #4 are social-democrats.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 04:48:07 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 04:48:07 AM
A few Republican lawmakers have backed the Catalan separatists publicly. Dana Rohrabacher, Carlos Curbelo, and Mario Diaz-Balart. Lincoln must be tumbling in his grave.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Siege on September 10, 2015, 05:05:12 AM
Post by: Siege on September 10, 2015, 05:05:12 AM
"A liberal's paradise would be a place where everybody has guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free utilities, and only law enforcement has guns."
And believe it or not, such a place does indeed already exist:
..It's called Prison"..
Sheriff Joe Arpaio
And believe it or not, such a place does indeed already exist:
..It's called Prison"..
Sheriff Joe Arpaio
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2015, 05:21:27 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2015, 05:21:27 AM
Quote from: Siege on September 10, 2015, 05:05:12 AM
"A liberal's paradise would be a place where everybody has guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free utilities, and only law enforcement has guns."
And believe it or not, such a place does indeed already exist:
..It's called Prison"..
Sheriff Joe Arpaio
Maybe a statist liberal like Raz or Ide.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2015, 08:03:52 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2015, 08:03:52 AM
Quote from: Siege on September 10, 2015, 05:05:12 AM
"A liberal's paradise would be a place where everybody has guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free utilities, and only law enforcement has guns."
And believe it or not, such a place does indeed already exist:
..It's called Prison"..
Sheriff Joe Arpaio
Euro liberals are not the same deal.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 10:32:33 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 10:32:33 AM
Pretty sure our liberals still qualify as socialists in the US playbook, though.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2015, 10:38:15 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2015, 10:38:15 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 10:32:33 AM
Pretty sure our liberals still qualify as socialists in the US playbook, though.
In the sense that 5% tax is radical laissez-faire capitalism but 6% is a centralized planned Soviet economy sure :P
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 10:47:10 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 10:47:10 AM
Anyway last polls show our dear Inés (#1) firmly in second place behind the separatist front (#6), with an outside chance of becoming president if she can build a unionist coalition.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2015, 10:48:33 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2015, 10:48:33 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 10:47:10 AM
Anyway last polls show our dear Inés (#1) firmly in second place behind the separatist front, with an outside chance of becoming president if she can build a unionist coalition.
I will be praying to non-Nationalist Jesus that she achieves this goal.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 10:50:58 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 10:50:58 AM
The main issue is that even if separatists fail to achieve a majority, the unionist parties are far too fragmented and diverse to form any kind of cohesive government. You'd need far lefties and conservatives sitting at the same table, alongside liberals and social-democrats, and maybe christian-democrats too.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2015, 10:54:13 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2015, 10:54:13 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 10:50:58 AM
The main issue is that even if separatists fail to achieve a majority, the unionist parties are far too fragmented and diverse to form any kind of cohesive government. You'd need far lefties and conservatives sitting at the same table, alongside liberals and social-democrats, and maybe christian-democrats too.
Something about politics and strange bedfellows.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 11:02:43 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2015, 11:02:43 AM
That's a lot of bedfellows all with very different kinky tastes, though.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Archy on September 11, 2015, 12:39:40 AM
Post by: Archy on September 11, 2015, 12:39:40 AM
Over here they succeeded succeeded in doing this to keep Vlaams Belang out of the govt. At that time we only had two opposition parties the Greens and Vlaams Belang.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 05:20:23 AM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 05:20:23 AM
Quote from: Archy on September 11, 2015, 12:39:40 AM
Over here they succeeded succeeded in doing this to keep Vlaams Belang out of the govt. At that time we only had two opposition parties the Greens and Vlaams Belang.
and results were horrendous.
Anyways, lets hope the liberty-faction wins.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 11, 2015, 07:03:50 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 11, 2015, 07:03:50 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 05:20:23 AM
Anyways, lets hope the liberty-faction wins.
Oh? Is there abuse of liberty going on? I was not aware civil rights were a factor in this election.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 07:17:40 AM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 07:17:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 11, 2015, 07:03:50 AMQuote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 05:20:23 AM
Anyways, lets hope the liberty-faction wins.
Oh? Is there abuse of liberty going on? I was not aware civil rights were a factor in this election.
yeah yeah, we all know you're firmly on the side of the imperialists.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 11, 2015, 07:28:12 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 11, 2015, 07:28:12 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 07:17:40 AM
yeah yeah, we all know you're firmly on the side of the imperialists.
I am on the side of individual rights and liberties. You are on the side of ethnic mobs.
I cannot help but notice you 'pro-liberty' types do not support the self determination of Syrians to live in whatever European Country they choose to.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 07:30:19 AM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 07:30:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 11, 2015, 07:28:12 AMQuote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 11, 2015, 07:17:40 AM
yeah yeah, we all know you're firmly on the side of the imperialists.
I am on the side of individual rights and liberties. You are on the side of ethnic mobs.
I cannot help but notice you 'pro-liberty' types do not support the self determination of Syrians to live in whatever European Country they choose to.
that's because they have their own country. and ou're in denial about human nature.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 15, 2015, 06:30:10 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 15, 2015, 06:30:10 AM
#4 broke out the dance moves!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHgVIyPSkS4
Big fan of him singing along, too. I love Queen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHgVIyPSkS4
Big fan of him singing along, too. I love Queen.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 18, 2015, 02:43:23 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 18, 2015, 02:43:23 AM
Family photo after the first (and I think only) debate:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Festaticos01.elmundo.es%2Fassets%2Fmultimedia%2Fimagenes%2F2015%2F09%2F18%2F14425290891789.jpg&hash=05d1f358b471c7a60948f76c0724d59185826105)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Festaticos01.elmundo.es%2Fassets%2Fmultimedia%2Fimagenes%2F2015%2F09%2F18%2F14425290891789.jpg&hash=05d1f358b471c7a60948f76c0724d59185826105)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Larch on September 18, 2015, 05:27:35 AM
Post by: The Larch on September 18, 2015, 05:27:35 AM
Did Iceta dance again?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 07:56:45 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 07:56:45 AM
This is happening today, and I just came from voting. To throw another classic Languish quiz, I voted for the only openly gay candidate in the poll. Try to guess who.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 27, 2015, 08:00:57 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 27, 2015, 08:00:57 AM
Hopefully not the hot chick, cause that puts a wrinkle in my plan to one day marry her. :hmm:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Monoriu on September 27, 2015, 08:01:50 AM
Post by: Monoriu on September 27, 2015, 08:01:50 AM
So assuming that Catalonia goes independent. Does that mean Barcelona football club will leave the Spanish football league? If so, they will compete in the new premier Catalan football league with...who? :unsure:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Liep on September 27, 2015, 08:10:02 AM
Post by: Liep on September 27, 2015, 08:10:02 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on September 27, 2015, 08:01:50 AM
So assuming that Catalonia goes independent. Does that mean Barcelona football club will leave the Spanish football league? If so, they will compete in the new premier Catalan football league with...who? :unsure:
Yes, but they will likely work something out due to financial reasons. I think Andorran teams are playing in the Spanish league as well.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 08:13:56 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 08:13:56 AM
Andorran teams have their own league. We'd probably exit the Spanish league.
Personally I think the separatists are losing this one. Turnover is surging, and it's generally understood that this benefits unionist parties.
Personally I think the separatists are losing this one. Turnover is surging, and it's generally understood that this benefits unionist parties.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 08:15:33 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 08:15:33 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 08:00:57 AM
Hopefully not the hot chick, cause that puts a wrinkle in my plan to one day marry her. :hmm:
You can rest easy. She's not gay (openly at least).
This guy in particular was actually the very first Spanish MP to come out of the closet, ten years ago.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 27, 2015, 08:21:06 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 27, 2015, 08:21:06 AM
Quote from: celedhring on August 31, 2015, 04:42:05 PM
Regarding the three unionist parties, #1 are liberals, #3 are conservatives and #4 are social-democrats.
I'm guessing #4.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 11:15:37 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 11:15:37 AM
Yup, it's #4.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 01:47:07 PM
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 01:47:07 PM
Record turnout, above 70% (no official figures yet). Exit polls show a decisive separatist win, but they haven't been too reliable in the past.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 27, 2015, 03:09:40 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 27, 2015, 03:09:40 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 01:47:07 PM
Record turnout, above 70% (no official figures yet). Exit polls show a decisive separatist win, but they haven't been too reliable in the past.
one may hope.
That said: from what I've been reading it's not like Madrid hasn't been going out if it's way to piss of the Catalans in about every conceivable way. From alluding to military aggression over defacto rendering Catalunya's devolved powers meaningless by opposing everything the local government enacted to denying rights guaranteed to every Spaniard (which the Catalans still are, and apparently could stay according to the constitution) and being called out on it (http://english.vilaweb.cat/noticies/rajoy-unable-to-argue-why-the-catalans-would-no-longer-be-european-citizens-during-a-radio-interview/). And of course the mudslinging in the press. But I don't think we can expect anything more from the press anyways, regardless of nationality.
Regardless, with all that's being going on the past few years -globally- I'd like to know who the asshole was who thought it might be funny to live in interesting times. :mad:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 27, 2015, 03:21:38 PM
Post by: Valmy on September 27, 2015, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 01:47:07 PM
Record turnout, above 70% (no official figures yet). Exit polls show a decisive separatist win, but they haven't been too reliable in the past.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lasexta.com%2Fclipping%2F2015%2F04%2F22%2F00418%2F30.jpg&hash=adb9478c4e65ed214378397dec1170dbd6637ce3)
:weep:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Post by: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Separatists lose the popular vote but win a narrow majority of seats. Hot lady's party trebles their number of MPs and will be the second largest party in parliament - still some distance behind the separatists though.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 27, 2015, 03:51:26 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 27, 2015, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Separatists lose the popular vote but win a narrow majority of seats. Hot lady's party trebles their number of MPs and will be the second largest party in parliament - still some distance behind the separatists though.
worst possible scenario as nothing is clear
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: KRonn on September 28, 2015, 09:50:38 AM
Post by: KRonn on September 28, 2015, 09:50:38 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 27, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Separatists lose the popular vote but win a narrow majority of seats. Hot lady's party trebles their number of MPs and will be the second largest party in parliament - still some distance behind the separatists though.
Does it seem likely now that the separatist parties have a majority that they'll vote to separate from Spain? And if they do vote that way is it actually doable to leave Spain very easily?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 09:58:41 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 09:58:41 AM
Pretty sure just leaving exceeds their authority a bit, but if they had a strong enough mandate they could negotiate a plebiscite with the Spanish government. Since they did not get a majority of the vote they might not be able to do that yet. But who knows?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: DontSayBanana on September 28, 2015, 10:02:49 AM
Post by: DontSayBanana on September 28, 2015, 10:02:49 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 08:00:57 AM
Hopefully not the hot chick, cause that puts a wrinkle in my plan to one day marry her. :hmm:
Marry? I'd settle for bang. :P
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 10:05:50 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 10:05:50 AM
LOL at the CUP party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Unity_Candidacy
Libertarian Socialism!
Libertarian Socialism!
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 28, 2015, 10:42:41 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 28, 2015, 10:42:41 AM
What's so weird about that? Anarcho-sindicalism has a strong tradition in Catalonia and they inherited that.
Weirdly, I consider them one of the most refreshingly honest parties in Spain. Wrong in about 90% of the things they defend, but pretty upfront about what they want, and how it should be done, compared to the big majority of our parties.
For example, the main separatist front wants to go forward with unilateral independence. They need CUP votes for that - who are separatists themselves. But CUP has said unilateral independence isn't viable since they didn't win the popular vote.
When the far left party has more sense than you, you really need to take a long and hard look at yourself.
Weirdly, I consider them one of the most refreshingly honest parties in Spain. Wrong in about 90% of the things they defend, but pretty upfront about what they want, and how it should be done, compared to the big majority of our parties.
For example, the main separatist front wants to go forward with unilateral independence. They need CUP votes for that - who are separatists themselves. But CUP has said unilateral independence isn't viable since they didn't win the popular vote.
When the far left party has more sense than you, you really need to take a long and hard look at yourself.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 11:04:16 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 11:04:16 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 28, 2015, 10:42:41 AM
What's so weird about that? Anarcho-sindicalism has a strong tradition in Catalonia and they inherited that.
Nothing weird about it, Languish joke from way back.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 11:05:23 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 11:05:23 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 28, 2015, 10:42:41 AM
For example, the main separatist front wants to go forward with unilateral independence. They need CUP votes for that - who are separatists themselves. But CUP has said unilateral independence isn't viable since they didn't win the popular vote.
So are there no installations controlled by the Spanish government in Catalonia? How they are going to do so unilaterally? Just show up with guns and seize them all?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 28, 2015, 11:15:50 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 28, 2015, 11:15:50 AM
It's easier than that. The Spanish state controls all money flows towards the regions coming from taxation. They only need to turn off the tap and the public sector in Catalonia will grind to a halt in a matter of weeks.
What will happen is that there will be constitutional reform in Spain after the general election this winter - reform which is sorely needed and not just because of us. The savage recession has revealed many cracks in Spain's building, the Catalan question is just one of them.
What will happen is that there will be constitutional reform in Spain after the general election this winter - reform which is sorely needed and not just because of us. The savage recession has revealed many cracks in Spain's building, the Catalan question is just one of them.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 28, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 28, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 28, 2015, 11:15:50 AM
It's easier than that. The Spanish state controls all money flows towards the regions coming from taxation. They only need to turn off the tap and the public sector in Catalonia will grind to a halt in a matter of weeks.
bullying would only prove to the independence-group they've been right all along.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 01:21:39 PM
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 28, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
bullying would only prove to the independence-group they've been right all along.
So a nice response by Spain would change the independence-group's mind?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 28, 2015, 01:27:47 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 28, 2015, 01:27:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 01:21:39 PMQuote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 28, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
bullying would only prove to the independence-group they've been right all along.
So a nice response by Spain would change the independence-group's mind?
it might be one step of many to convince them that Spain is serious about rooting out anti-Catalan sentiment.
But given Spain's history towards the region (both recent and not so recent) I doubt the country can convince anyone, especially not if the PP is in power.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Barrister on September 28, 2015, 01:28:24 PM
Post by: Barrister on September 28, 2015, 01:28:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 01:21:39 PMQuote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 28, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
bullying would only prove to the independence-group they've been right all along.
So a nice response by Spain would change the independence-group's mind?
Just speaking from watching Canada's situation vis-a-vis Quebec...
It's a delicate balancing act. Clearly pulling a hard line is just going to play into the independence-sides hand, but so does an overly obsequious response as well (as in "hey look out how well voting for independence parties worked for us!"). You just have to try a "business as normal" approach and not get drawn into petty nationalist fights.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: viper37 on September 28, 2015, 02:23:57 PM
Post by: viper37 on September 28, 2015, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 28, 2015, 01:28:24 PMany example of this?
an overly obsequious response as well (as in "hey look out how well voting for independence parties worked for us!").
It seems to me that since the Conservatives' way replaced the Liberal's hardline way, the seperatis movement has been weakened. Sovereignty is below 30%* in polls and the PQ has been unable to obtain a majority since, only forming government once, when fatigue for the provincial Liberal government was very high.
Elect the NDP or the Liberals, and things could change quickly.
*26% of the population support the idea that the PQ should hold a referendum on independance: Link (http://www.ledevoir.com/galeries-photos/sondage-leger-marketing-le-devoir-referendum-les-quebecois-ne-sont-pas-presses)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Barrister on September 28, 2015, 02:29:30 PM
Post by: Barrister on September 28, 2015, 02:29:30 PM
Quote from: viper37 on September 28, 2015, 02:23:57 PMQuote from: Barrister on September 28, 2015, 01:28:24 PMany example of this?
an overly obsequious response as well (as in "hey look out how well voting for independence parties worked for us!").
It seems to me that since the Conservatives' way replaced the Liberal's hardline way, the seperatis movement has been weakened. Sovereignty is below 30%* in polls and the PQ has been unable to obtain a majority since, only forming government once, when fatigue for the provincial Liberal government was very high.
I don't think the Conservatives have been "hardlined". They've mostly stayed out of QUebec provincial politics.
I was thinking more of Mulroney's efforts to do or say anything to get Quebec's signature on the Constitution, which blew up pretty spectacularly and led to soveregnists moment of near-victory.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Grey Fox on September 28, 2015, 02:29:47 PM
Post by: Grey Fox on September 28, 2015, 02:29:47 PM
The party creed doesn't matter, what bolsters the separatist movement is centralization efforts.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 29, 2015, 07:51:48 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 29, 2015, 07:51:48 AM
Cher weighs in.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs13.postimg.org%2Fqm6r51nnr%2FCaptura.jpg&hash=5a50a9f9355c4f585997612f0f8390287d8aaf1c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs13.postimg.org%2Fqm6r51nnr%2FCaptura.jpg&hash=5a50a9f9355c4f585997612f0f8390287d8aaf1c)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 08:28:17 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 08:28:17 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 28, 2015, 02:29:47 PM
The party creed doesn't matter, what bolsters the separatist movement is centralization efforts.
Spain is rewriting its constitution no? Well there you go.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 29, 2015, 09:13:08 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 29, 2015, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 08:28:17 AMQuote from: Grey Fox on September 28, 2015, 02:29:47 PM
The party creed doesn't matter, what bolsters the separatist movement is centralization efforts.
Spain is rewriting its constitution no? Well there you go.
Well, the crux of the question is in which direction the constitution will be rewritten. Decentralization needs reform, everybody agrees, it was sort of improvised and its badly designed in a lot of levels. But getting everybody to agree to a model will be hard. Given the sectarianism that ravages our political arena, I can't see the kind of grand bargain that could smooth things out.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:15:31 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:15:31 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 29, 2015, 09:13:08 AM
Given the sectarianism that ravages our political arena, I can't see the kind of grand bargain that could smooth things out.
Pity.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:16:46 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:16:46 AM
Why are they asking Cher anyway? She is Armenian not Catalonian.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 09:46:33 AM
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 09:46:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:16:46 AM
Why are they asking Cher anyway? She is Armenian not Catalonian.
Because celebrities should only be asked their opinion if they are from that ethnic or country group?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 29, 2015, 09:51:49 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 29, 2015, 09:51:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 29, 2015, 09:46:33 AMQuote from: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:16:46 AM
Why are they asking Cher anyway? She is Armenian not Catalonian.
Because celebrities should only be asked their opinion if they are from that ethnic or country group?
It seems pretty out of the blue unless she has some kind of tie to the region.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:53:52 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:53:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 29, 2015, 09:46:33 AMQuote from: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:16:46 AM
Why are they asking Cher anyway? She is Armenian not Catalonian.
Because celebrities should only be asked their opinion if they are from that ethnic or country group?
Being curious as to why is not the same as making a demand that nothing every happen garbon :lol:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:54:11 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:54:11 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 29, 2015, 09:51:49 AM
It seems pretty out of the blue unless she has some kind of tie to the region.
Yep.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 09:57:51 AM
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 09:57:51 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 29, 2015, 09:51:49 AMQuote from: garbon on September 29, 2015, 09:46:33 AMQuote from: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:16:46 AM
Why are they asking Cher anyway? She is Armenian not Catalonian.
Because celebrities should only be asked their opinion if they are from that ethnic or country group?
It seems pretty out of the blue unless she has some kind of tie to the region.
I think that might just say more about your experience with twitter.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:58:54 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:58:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 29, 2015, 09:57:51 AM
I think that might just say more about your experience with twitter.
But she actually had an opinion on it which suggests she was following it. So why does it offend you I ask what the source of that interest was?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 29, 2015, 10:02:49 AM
Post by: celedhring on September 29, 2015, 10:02:49 AM
She has no particular ties to the region that I know of. I guess she actually follows international politics.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 10:16:36 AM
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:58:54 AMQuote from: garbon on September 29, 2015, 09:57:51 AM
I think that might just say more about your experience with twitter.
But she actually had an opinion on it which suggests she was following it. So why does it offend you I ask what the source of that interest was?
Cher's source of interest? Your question seemed to be why would someone ask a celebrity with no ties to the region about their opinion. I don't have an issue with you asking that but as I said seems like a lack of understanding how people interact on twitter. People ask celebrities random questions all the time and up to celebrity if they want to respond or not.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 11:48:52 AM
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 11:48:52 AM
Ah ok. I misunderstood. I thought you were saying I was saying that I thought that celebrities shouldn't be commenting on things they are not connected to. I was just curious why they would.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 12:01:54 PM
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 12:01:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 11:48:52 AM
Ah ok. I misunderstood. I thought you were saying I was saying that I thought that celebrities shouldn't be commenting on things they are not connected to. I was just curious why they would.
I think many celebrities, and in particular Cher, are much more like everyday people on twitter. So if their account isn't professionally managed, they'll comment on things that have no connection to them.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Barrister on September 29, 2015, 12:12:29 PM
Post by: Barrister on September 29, 2015, 12:12:29 PM
Cher has about as much right to comment on Catalonia as any of us, and we're all discussing it.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 12:16:33 PM
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 12:16:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 29, 2015, 12:12:29 PM
Cher has about as much right to comment on Catalonia as any of us, and we're all discussing it.
Yes and the sky is blue. So? The only reason I am commenting on this election is because celedhring is my bud and he made this thread where we learned a bit about it. I did not get a random tweet from a guy in eastern Tanzania asking me about a local mayoral race. I mean I have a personal connection to what is going on in Catalonia. If somebody asked me why I care I would have a reason. So I was just curious if she had some kind of connection to the region as she had no obvious one. I did not say I disapproved of her being asked or that she answered just that I was puzzled by it.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 29, 2015, 12:39:38 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 29, 2015, 12:39:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 09:16:46 AM
Why are they asking Cher anyway? She is Armenian not Catalonian.
I thought she was just plastic by now
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 01:30:20 PM
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2015, 01:30:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 12:16:33 PMQuote from: Barrister on September 29, 2015, 12:12:29 PM
Cher has about as much right to comment on Catalonia as any of us, and we're all discussing it.
Yes and the sky is blue. So? The only reason I am commenting on this election is because celedhring is my bud and he made this thread where we learned a bit about it. I did not get a random tweet from a guy in eastern Tanzania asking me about a local mayoral race. I mean I have a personal connection to what is going on in Catalonia. If somebody asked me why I care I would have a reason. So I was just curious if she had some kind of connection to the region as she had no obvious one. I did not say I disapproved of her being asked or that she answered just that I was puzzled by it.
I have a notion. Tweet her and ask. :D
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on September 29, 2015, 02:14:42 PM
Post by: celedhring on September 29, 2015, 02:14:42 PM
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 02:16:17 PM
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2015, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 29, 2015, 01:30:20 PM
I have a notion. Tweet her and ask. :D
That would involve using Twitter and I swore to stop doing that awhile back :blush:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on October 27, 2015, 05:59:01 AM
Post by: celedhring on October 27, 2015, 05:59:01 AM
As the main separatist party is besieged by corruption scandals, the separatist bloc is putting forward a motion to sort of declare unilateral independence (the motion says that "they will begin the process to create a Catalan independent state"). It will get passed by the Catalan parliament next week.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Brain on October 27, 2015, 06:21:34 AM
Post by: The Brain on October 27, 2015, 06:21:34 AM
I didn't know slavery was still that important in Catalonia.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 27, 2015, 07:01:51 AM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 27, 2015, 07:01:51 AM
Quote from: celedhring on October 27, 2015, 05:59:01 AM
As the main separatist party is besieged by corruption scandals, the separatist bloc is putting forward a motion to sort of declare unilateral independence (the motion says that "they will begin the process to create a Catalan independent state"). It will get passed by the Catalan parliament next week.
seems madrid is getting desperate
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on October 27, 2015, 09:38:52 PM
Post by: Valmy on October 27, 2015, 09:38:52 PM
Quote from: celedhring on October 27, 2015, 05:59:01 AM
As the main separatist party is besieged by corruption scandals, the separatist bloc is putting forward a motion to sort of declare unilateral independence (the motion says that "they will begin the process to create a Catalan independent state"). It will get passed by the Catalan parliament next week.
Here I thought the once weighty matter of nations had come down to electoneering farcical garbage where you just had to get a 50.1% of the vote once to win eternal victory. But I guess I was wrong you do not even need a 50.1% majority. You can declare independence with a minority mandate.
What a farce. Catalonia should be ashamed of itself. A bad joke being created right when nation states are heading to the dust bin of history.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on October 28, 2015, 03:09:53 AM
Post by: celedhring on October 28, 2015, 03:09:53 AM
Well, fact is that they can't. Nothing will come out of this.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Larch on October 28, 2015, 04:49:44 AM
Post by: The Larch on October 28, 2015, 04:49:44 AM
Quote from: celedhring on October 28, 2015, 03:09:53 AM
Well, fact is that they can't. Nothing will come out of this.
Something will come out, political ammunition for PP towards the national elections.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on October 28, 2015, 05:07:10 AM
Post by: celedhring on October 28, 2015, 05:07:10 AM
Yeah, I'll have to thank the separatists for 4 more years of conservative dicks in power. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Larch on October 28, 2015, 05:10:34 AM
Post by: The Larch on October 28, 2015, 05:10:34 AM
Quote from: celedhring on October 28, 2015, 05:07:10 AM
Yeah, I'll have to thank the separatists for 4 more years of conservative dicks in power. :rolleyes:
You really have to consider joining the tinfoil hat brigade for things like this (registering this initiative just before the national elections), it's as if both PP and the separatists had some kind of wink wink agreement to fan the flames right before elections to favour the other side.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 28, 2015, 06:09:14 AM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 28, 2015, 06:09:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 27, 2015, 09:38:52 PM
A bad joke being created right when nation states are heading to the dust bin of history.
lol, rather the opposite.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on October 28, 2015, 06:16:11 AM
Post by: garbon on October 28, 2015, 06:16:11 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 28, 2015, 06:09:14 AMQuote from: Valmy on October 27, 2015, 09:38:52 PM
A bad joke being created right when nation states are heading to the dust bin of history.
lol, rather the opposite.
True. We've too many living fossils / newly born 'old souls.'
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Syt on October 28, 2015, 06:18:03 AM
Post by: Syt on October 28, 2015, 06:18:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 27, 2015, 09:38:52 PMA bad joke being created right when nation states are heading to the dust bin of history.
I kind of see the current return to nationalism or social conservatism in some countries as akin to the 1815 restoration or the efforts of the Luddites. Eventually change will overtake them.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 01:48:59 PM
Post by: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 01:48:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 27, 2015, 09:38:52 PMI won't discuss the Catalan experience, but the generalities of your statement.
Here I thought the once weighty matter of nations had come down to electoneering farcical garbage where you just had to get a 50.1% of the vote once to win eternal victory.
Countries weren't created with 50%+1 votes either. In many cases, they were created, they expanded or they maintained themselves at the point of a bayonnet, or for the older ones, swords and lances. In most countries, the Constitution can be changed by less than 100% of the states/provinces/regions via a dubious democratic process and then, everyone is stuck with it. Even worst, it ain't done by a referendum, yet, it is totally acceptable to shackle a nation by the weight of the majority in the country, especially if they're of a different culture. In one example that comes to mind, I can not imagine Canada changing its Constitution and ignoring the fact that Alberta rejects the changes. I could not conceive Canada changing the rules for a Constitution change and ignoring Ontario's opposition to the measure. Yet somehow, we're told that if we want to seperate, it has to be done by Canada's will, something the new government has already announced it would never agree to, even if 95% of Quebec were to vote for independance. But that is democracy. 50%+1, used everywhere else for every vote is just ok, except to seperate a nation from a country.
I'm sorry, this is bullshit.
The Liberal Party governs with less than 40% of the popular vote, yet, they can effect broad changes to the way this country is governed. They can change the electoral system to rig it to their advantage, they can starve provinces to coherce them to accept their changes, they can pressure foreign diplomats to cut ties with specific provinces, they can cuddle extremists or bomb them at will with 39,5% support. They decide any member of the PQ is now a terrorist and detain them for a an unspecified lenght of time by using every legal loopholes at their disposal and changing the laws when it need to. It's not like they refrained from doing it in the past.
All of this and more is legit with 39,5% of the vote. But independance of a nation with 50%+1 is worst than what Hitler did the Jews.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 02:06:37 PM
Post by: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 28, 2015, 06:18:03 AMI don't think it's nothing new. Large, centralized empire dominated by a single ethnicity tend to crumble under their weight and eventually disintegrate as soon a crisis arrive. Like the European powers that did not survive WW1 or gradually lost their colonial empire following the 2 world wars.Quote from: Valmy on October 27, 2015, 09:38:52 PMA bad joke being created right when nation states are heading to the dust bin of history.
I kind of see the current return to nationalism or social conservatism in some countries as akin to the 1815 restoration or the efforts of the Luddites. Eventually change will overtake them.
There's nothing different between a Catalan rejecting Spanish central authority than an Algerian rejecting French authority. Were Algerians morons for refusing French rules? Were Americans disloyal for not respecting the British parliament authority? I don't think so. People accumulate grievances over time, people evolve, start feeling differently, sometimes language is an issue, sometimes it's something else. I see nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 02:16:36 PM
Post by: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 01:48:59 PM
I won't discuss the Catalan experience, but the generalities of your statement.
Good. I would enjoy that.
QuoteCountries weren't created with 50%+1 votes either. In many cases, they were created, they expanded or they maintained themselves at the point of a bayonnet, or for the older ones, swords and lances.
Indeed. But it is the current state of the constitution of a state that matters not events that happened centuries ago.
QuoteIn most countries, the Constitution can be changed by less than 100% of the states/provinces/regions via a dubious democratic process and then, everyone is stuck with it. Even worst, it ain't done by a referendum, yet, it is totally acceptable to shackle a nation by the weight of the majority in the country, especially if they're of a different culture. In one example that comes to mind, I can not imagine Canada changing its Constitution and ignoring the fact that Alberta rejects the changes. I could not conceive Canada changing the rules for a Constitution change and ignoring Ontario's opposition to the measure. Yet somehow, we're told that if we want to seperate, it has to be done by Canada's will, something the new government has already announced it would never agree to, even if 95% of Quebec were to vote for independance. But that is democracy. 50%+1, used everywhere else for every vote is just ok, except to seperate a nation from a country.
Indeed and for obvious reasons. Creation of a country is not a constitutional act, it is a revolutionary one. A constitutional act can be changed or reversed or re-negotiated. The creation of a sovereign state is irreversible and forever. It is not like some election where the 0.2% undecided people can go 'ok that didn't go well I will vote for the Unionists next time.' You are asking people to make a drastic and irreversible decision that will impact international politics for years if not centuries. It cannot be done lightly and cannot be compared to any old internal passing of a law of changes in a government structure which can be shown to be failures and undone without too much trouble down the road. In those cases that 0.2% undecideds can flip the decision next time.
As a revolutionary act I think it requires two things to be legitimate in my eyes, the Valmy doctrine if you will :P
1. The central government must have committed abuses on the individual rights of the people of the province that are fundamentally unacceptable. A violation that justifies taking extreme action. This might include making it illegal to perform certain cultural practices, use a local language, practice religion, rights to property, right to not be slaughtered in a pogrom and so forth. And further that these abuses cannot be corrected via the normal and expected levers of government.
2. The revolution should be shown to be supported by an overwhelming majority of the population. And if fundamental and unacceptable violations are occurring it must be the case that an overwhelming majority would be convinced of that.
Numerous new nations have been created over the past 40 years that have met both of these requirements. This is a political revolution and should be treated as such, it should not be given the same level of consideration as the newest city dogshit ordinance.
QuoteI'm sorry, this is bullshit.
No it isn't.
QuoteThe Liberal Party governs with less than 40% of the popular vote, yet, they can effect broad changes to the way this country is governed. They can change the electoral system to rig it to their advantage, they can starve provinces to coherce them to accept their changes, they can pressure foreign diplomats to cut ties with specific provinces, they can cuddle extremists or bomb them at will with 39,5% support. They decide any member of the PQ is now a terrorist and detain them for a an unspecified lenght of time by using every legal loopholes at their disposal and changing the laws when it need to. It's not like they refrained from doing it in the past.
All of this and more is legit with 39,5% of the vote.
Legit maybe, is it just is another question. But that is a matter for Canadians to debate.
QuoteBut independance of a nation with 50%+1 is worst than what Hitler did the Jews.
Nonsense. Hitler waged a political revolution with only 33% support. -_-
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 02:19:47 PM
Post by: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 02:06:37 PM
There's nothing different between a Catalan rejecting Spanish central authority than an Algerian rejecting French authority. Were Algerians morons for refusing French rules? Were Americans disloyal for not respecting the British parliament authority? I don't think so. People accumulate grievances over time, people evolve, start feeling differently, sometimes language is an issue, sometimes it's something else. I see nothing wrong with that.
Yes there is. Democracy and Republican government are impossible under this divisive and destructive doctrine.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 06:52:14 PM
Post by: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 06:52:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 02:16:36 PMConstitutions are often imposed by the central authority, at gunpoint or threat of.
Indeed. But it is the current state of the constitution of a state that matters not events that happened centuries ago.
I can not remember when the US Southern States voted for the abolition of slavery, yet, it became a fact. It was not democratic in any way, since the Federal government had to forcefully reintegrate them in the Constitutional Union, expel opponents and place people sympathetic to their cause to get these post war amendments to pass.
The 1867 Constitution (British North American Act) was an act of freewill of sort: you chose between remaining a standalone British colony or you chose to unite yourself with other colonies to protect your borders against a possible American invasion. It was a simple vote in the parliament of the time, where English was the only language authorized, in a French province. It won by two votes. These people were certainly not representative of the Quebec population at the time and they were predominently loyalist descendents.
So, what a particular Constitution says in regards to independance or autonomy of its constituants, I tend to not put that much Faith into that. If a Constitution says discrimination against blacks is legal and any contestation of that is a crime, is it a legit Constitution? At a time, it would have been so in many places in the world.
QuoteI'd say going to war with a country, or retiring your troops from a conflict zone can impact international politics for years if not centuries too. Yet, we don't require every citizen to vote on it. In Canada, the Prime Minister could decide without asking the parliament what to do. Harper innovated by having the MPs vote on his proposals to extend the Afghan mission. Trudeau did not even bother when he made the decision to remove our CF-18s from Irak and Syria.
You are asking people to make a drastic and irreversible decision that will impact international politics for years if not centuries. It cannot be done lightly and cannot be compared to any old internal passing of a law of changes in a government structure which can be shown to be failures and undone without too much trouble down the road. In those cases that 0.2% undecideds can flip the decision next time.
But still. Beyond the Constitution of a country, there is international law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/self_determination_international_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination
Spain, like Canada, has already announced it would never recognize independance of one of its constituants. That puts both countries in violation of international law on the subject.
The British government, despite the obvious lie about change (where's the change? :) )during the campaign acted like a mature and responsible government: negotiate before hand how things will be done. That Canadian and Spanish governement simply acted like pricks. I think that warrants the Catalan decision. I much prefer a referendum to determine independance, but in any case, Spain would never agree to it.
QuoteAs a revolutionary act I think it requires two things to be legitimate in my eyes, the Valmy doctrine if you will :PThe British government never did anything like this against the Americans, yet they rebelled. But the American government certainly did some of that to its native population, to its black population, ot its Southern population*
1. The central government must have committed abuses on the individual rights of the people of the province that are fundamentally unacceptable. A violation that justifies taking extreme action. This might include making it illegal to perform certain cultural practices, use a local language, practice religion, rights to property, right to not be slaughtered in a pogrom and so forth. And further that these abuses cannot be corrected via the normal and expected levers of government.
The French government never did anything like this against the Algerians either. Or against the people of Indochina. Not on a large scale, actually. I don't think the British mass slaugthered Afghanis or Egyptians, yet they seeked independance.
*The way the Southerners saw things, slaves were property. Forbidding slavey = attack on rights of property. Therefore, the South was justified in its secession of the US... interesting. Lettow would be pleased of you :P
QuoteThe US revolution was supported by what, 25% of the population? The French resistance, was it 80% of French for independance and 20% for Germany? I doubt it very much... And we could argue the case against nazism was pretty strong.
2. The revolution should be shown to be supported by an overwhelming majority of the population. And if fundamental and unacceptable violations are occurring it must be the case that an overwhelming majority would be convinced of that.
QuoteNumerous new nations have been created over the past 40 years that have not met both of these requirements.
Numerous new nations have been created over the past 40 years that have met both of these requirements.
Numerous new nations have been created over the past 100 years that have not met both of these requirements.
Numerous new nations have been created over the past 500 years that have not met both of these requirements.
QuoteIt's a general principle. Nowhere in the Constitution of Canada is it required to have a vote of 50%+1 for anything.
Legit maybe, is it just is another question. But that is a matter for Canadians to debate.
Yet, suddenly, a new rule should be invented.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 07:02:20 PM
Post by: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 07:02:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 02:19:47 PMthere nothing divisive and destructive here. Except the Spanish government attitude.
Yes there is. Democracy and Republican government are impossible under this divisive and destructive doctrine.
If you refuse independance to a people instead of negotiating, what you see is stuff like this. More&more people flock to the cause and they radicalize themselves. Next, the Spanish government sends in the army and they're surprise the people react violently.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: garbon on October 28, 2015, 07:37:11 PM
Post by: garbon on October 28, 2015, 07:37:11 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 07:02:20 PMQuote from: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 02:19:47 PMthere nothing divisive and destructive here. Except the Spanish government attitude.
Yes there is. Democracy and Republican government are impossible under this divisive and destructive doctrine.
If you refuse independance to a people instead of negotiating, what you see is stuff like this. More&more people flock to the cause and they radicalize themselves. Next, the Spanish government sends in the army and they're surprise the people react violently.
Yeah because divided ourselves up into more and more states has got to be a win, no?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 09:30:36 PM
Post by: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 28, 2015, 07:02:20 PMQuote from: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 02:19:47 PMthere nothing divisive and destructive here. Except the Spanish government attitude.
Yes there is. Democracy and Republican government are impossible under this divisive and destructive doctrine.
If you refuse independance to a people instead of negotiating, what you see is stuff like this. More&more people flock to the cause and they radicalize themselves. Next, the Spanish government sends in the army and they're surprise the people react violently.
Well then when more and more people flock to the cause they can have a 75% mandate with a long list of grievances. But they are not waiting for that are they?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 09:34:30 PM
Post by: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 28, 2015, 07:37:11 PM
Yeah because divided ourselves up into more and more states has got to be a win, no?
In smaller states nobody ever disagrees with each other.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Monoriu on October 28, 2015, 09:41:08 PM
Post by: Monoriu on October 28, 2015, 09:41:08 PM
It is inefficient to have too many small states. The administrative costs are too high, the possibility of having too many different sets of rules is too high, it does not facilitate trade, etc.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: mongers on October 28, 2015, 09:49:31 PM
Post by: mongers on October 28, 2015, 09:49:31 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 28, 2015, 09:41:08 PM
It is inefficient to have too many small states. The administrative costs are too high, the possibility of having too many different sets of rules is too high, it does not facilitate trade, etc.
Mono culture?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: MadImmortalMan on October 28, 2015, 10:04:53 PM
Post by: MadImmortalMan on October 28, 2015, 10:04:53 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 28, 2015, 09:41:08 PM
It is inefficient to have too many small states. The administrative costs are too high, the possibility of having too many different sets of rules is too high, it does not facilitate trade, etc.
Many smaller states are less efficient but more stable and resistant to shock.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: The Brain on October 29, 2015, 05:47:04 AM
Post by: The Brain on October 29, 2015, 05:47:04 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 28, 2015, 09:41:08 PM
It is inefficient to have too many small states. The administrative costs are too high, the possibility of having too many different sets of rules is too high, it does not facilitate trade, etc.
The cool people agree.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fx300_zpsf0ipzwzh.jpg&hash=f67a3ef268acd6c281bb8516207281c5ed1cb632) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/Slayhem/media/x300_zpsf0ipzwzh.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 29, 2015, 05:50:13 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 29, 2015, 05:50:13 AM
Quote from: mongers on October 28, 2015, 09:49:31 PMQuote from: Monoriu on October 28, 2015, 09:41:08 PM
It is inefficient to have too many small states. The administrative costs are too high, the possibility of having too many different sets of rules is too high, it does not facilitate trade, etc.
Mono culture?
:lol:
Let us start by abolishing the SAR in Hong Kong. :)
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: viper37 on October 29, 2015, 08:45:03 AM
Post by: viper37 on October 29, 2015, 08:45:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 09:30:36 PMso, they should wait until the Spanish government acts like the Syrian government before they even think of independance?
Well then when more and more people flock to the cause they can have a 75% mandate with a long list of grievances. But they are not waiting for that are they?
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: viper37 on October 29, 2015, 08:49:02 AM
Post by: viper37 on October 29, 2015, 08:49:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 28, 2015, 07:37:11 PMIdeally, one central government taking care of some core issues while other levels organize their own things.
Yeah because divided ourselves up into more and more states has got to be a win, no?
Or a trully multi-ethnic/cultural government when a country is composed of many cultures, but you usually don't see that. I don't think I've seen it in history either, where the dominant culture agrees to share power equally with its minorities.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on October 29, 2015, 08:49:32 AM
Post by: Valmy on October 29, 2015, 08:49:32 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 29, 2015, 08:45:03 AMQuote from: Valmy on October 28, 2015, 09:30:36 PMso, they should wait until the Spanish government acts like the Syrian government before they even think of independance?
Well then when more and more people flock to the cause they can have a 75% mandate with a long list of grievances. But they are not waiting for that are they?
They should wait until they have a reason to be independent and have convinced most of the people that that is a good idea.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Martinus on October 29, 2015, 08:51:46 AM
Post by: Martinus on October 29, 2015, 08:51:46 AM
Nationalism sucks. Unfortunately it has proven more resilient than it was thought 50 years ago.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on December 28, 2015, 03:51:56 AM
Post by: celedhring on December 28, 2015, 03:51:56 AM
So, the separatist bloc (JxSí) needed the votes of a small, far left separatist party (CUP) that had vowed that they would never vote for their candidate, who's a pro-austerity conservative.
After 2-3 months of talks, where CUP insisted again and again that JxSí put another candidate forward, ultimately they reached a deal that included a diluted presidency, some token social investment, and reverting some privatizations. CUP presented the deal to their general assembly for approval. The party is deeply divided between the hardcore separatists that are willing to vote for the conservative candidate if it means furthering the road towards independence, and the hardcore anti-capitalists that will never vote for a conservative austerian.
The result of the vote? 1515 yay - 1515 nay :lol:
After 2-3 months of talks, where CUP insisted again and again that JxSí put another candidate forward, ultimately they reached a deal that included a diluted presidency, some token social investment, and reverting some privatizations. CUP presented the deal to their general assembly for approval. The party is deeply divided between the hardcore separatists that are willing to vote for the conservative candidate if it means furthering the road towards independence, and the hardcore anti-capitalists that will never vote for a conservative austerian.
The result of the vote? 1515 yay - 1515 nay :lol:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Monoriu on December 28, 2015, 04:28:18 AM
Post by: Monoriu on December 28, 2015, 04:28:18 AM
Quote from: celedhring on December 28, 2015, 03:51:56 AM
So, the separatist bloc (JxSí) needed the votes of a small, far left separatist party (CUP) that had vowed that they would never vote for their candidate, who's a pro-austerity conservative.
After 2-3 months of talks, where CUP insisted again and again that JxSí put another candidate forward, ultimately they reached a deal that included a diluted presidency, some token social investment, and reverting some privatizations. CUP presented the deal to their general assembly for approval. The party is deeply divided between the hardcore separatists that are willing to vote for the conservative candidate if it means furthering the road towards independence, and the hardcore anti-capitalists that will never vote for a conservative austerian.
The result of the vote? 1515 yay - 1515 nay :lol:
So what happens next? Flip a coin? :unsure:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on December 28, 2015, 05:17:56 AM
Post by: celedhring on December 28, 2015, 05:17:56 AM
The party's leadership will meet next week to decide. It's gonna go down to the wire, since a president must be installed before January 9th or there will be be a repeat election.
The vote was expected to be very close, but no way they haven't rigged it just to take the piss out of the conservatives :lol:
The vote was expected to be very close, but no way they haven't rigged it just to take the piss out of the conservatives :lol:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on January 03, 2016, 10:47:35 AM
Post by: celedhring on January 03, 2016, 10:47:35 AM
So, CUP have finally decided to not support JxSí, so there won't be a separatist government and we'll have a repeat election in March. In due time a new thread will be posted, with more photos of the hot unionist lady.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Valmy on January 04, 2016, 09:31:39 AM
Post by: Valmy on January 04, 2016, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 03, 2016, 10:47:35 AM
So, CUP have finally decided to not support JxSí, so there won't be a separatist government and we'll have a repeat election in March. In due time a new thread will be posted, with more photos of the hot unionist lady.
See? Everybody wins.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on January 09, 2016, 12:45:37 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 09, 2016, 12:45:37 PM
In an eleventh hour reversal the two separatist parties have announced a deal, just hours before the deadline. Artur Mas, the acting president of the Catalan government (and candidate of the separatist bloc JxSí) will step aside and some other dude will be appointed instead, with the votes of the far left separatist party. The far lefties had vetoed Artur Mas right from the start, given his past conservative, pro-austerity, policies as head of the Catalan government.
So worst of all worlds; a separatist government and no new election thread :weep:
So worst of all worlds; a separatist government and no new election thread :weep:
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 09, 2016, 03:25:55 PM
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 09, 2016, 03:25:55 PM
Maybe I've been playing too much EU4, but I think the separatists should start pressing their claims on Sardinia, Sicily and Naples.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on January 09, 2016, 05:19:34 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on January 09, 2016, 05:19:34 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 09, 2016, 12:45:37 PM
In an eleventh hour reversal the two separatist parties have announced a deal, just hours before the deadline. Artur Mas, the acting president of the Catalan government (and candidate of the separatist bloc JxSí) will step aside and some other dude will be appointed instead, with the votes of the far left separatist party. The far lefties had vetoed Artur Mas right from the start, given his past conservative, pro-austerity, policies as head of the Catalan government.
So worst of all worlds; a separatist government and no new election thread :weep:
fun times.
Instead of just one thread you'll now have the opportunity to post more -probably
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on January 10, 2016, 05:32:26 AM
Post by: celedhring on January 10, 2016, 05:32:26 AM
A separatist government in Catalonia will probably lead to a "national unity" grand coalition government in Madrid.
Title: Re: Vote in the Catalan regional election!
Post by: celedhring on January 11, 2016, 09:02:14 AM
Post by: celedhring on January 11, 2016, 09:02:14 AM
Incidentally, that's what our new president looks like:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.municipisindependencia.cat%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2FPuigdemont.jpg&hash=1bb929ce1e189eba1d51b6aef3e73185aec60614)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.municipisindependencia.cat%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2FPuigdemont.jpg&hash=1bb929ce1e189eba1d51b6aef3e73185aec60614)