Fucking babies, whining because someone had the guts to tell the truth
Also, fuck the BBC for putting genocide in quotation marks, what a pathetic display of cowardice.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32272604
QuoteTurkey anger at Pope Francis Armenian 'genocide' claim
12 April 2015
Turkey has recalled its envoy to the Vatican after Pope Francis described the mass killing of Armenians under Ottoman rule in WW1 as "genocide".
Turkey has reacted with anger to the comment made by the Pope at a service in Rome earlier on Sunday.
Armenia and many historians say up to 1.5 million Armenian Christians were killed by Ottoman forces in 1915.
But Turkey has always disputed that figure and said the deaths were part of a civil conflict triggered by WW1.
The row has continued to sour relations between Armenia and Turkey.
'Bleeding wound'
The Pope made the comments at a Mass in the Armenian Catholic rite at Peter's Basilica, attended by the Armenian president and church leaders.
He said that humanity had lived through "three massive and unprecedented tragedies" in the last century.
"The first, which is widely considered 'the first genocide of the 20th Century', struck your own Armenian people," he said, in a form of words used by a declaration by Pope John Paul II in 2001.
Pope Francis also referred to the crimes "perpetrated by Nazism and Stalinism" and said other genocides had followed in Cambodia, Rwanda, Burundi and Bosnia.
He said it was his duty to honour the memories of those who were killed.
"Concealing or denying evil is like allowing a wound to keep bleeding without bandaging it," the Pope added.
Armenia's President Serzh Sargsyan welcomed his comments, saying they sent a powerful message to the international community.
But Turkey immediately summoned the Vatican's ambassador to Ankara for an explanation, and then later recalled its ambassador from Rome.
The foreign ministry said it felt "great disappointment and sadness" at the Pope's remarks, which it said would cause a "problem of trust" between them.
Turkey's Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu tweeted: "The Pope's statement, which is far from the legal and historical reality, cannot be accepted.
"Religious authorities are not the places to incite resentment and hatred with baseless allegations," he added.
QuoteAnalysis: David Willey, BBC News, Rome
Pope Francis, who visited Turkey last year, would have been perfectly conscious that he would offend the moderate Muslim country by his use of the word "genocide".
But the Pope's powerful phrase "concealing or denying evil is like allowing a wound to bleed without bandaging it" extended his condemnation to all other, more recent, mass killings.
It now remains to be seen how far his remarks will impact upon the Vatican's future relations with moderate Muslim states. It was a bold decision but totally coherent with Pope Francis' philosophy of open discussion about moral arguments.
Pope Francis' focus today on Armenia, the first country to adopt Christianity as its state religion, even before the conversion of the Roman Emperor Constantine, serves as yet another reminder of the Catholic Church's widely spread roots in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.
'Political conflict'
In 2014, for the first time, Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan offered condolences to the grandchildren of all the Armenians who lost their lives.
But he also said that it was inadmissible for Armenia to turn the issue "into a matter of political conflict".
Armenia says up to 1.5 million people died in 1915-16 as the Ottoman Empire was disintegrating. Turkey has said the number of deaths was much smaller.
Many of the victims were civilians deported en masse to barren desert regions where they died of starvation and thirst. Thousands also died in massacres.
Most non-Turkish scholars of the events regard them as genocide. Among the other states which formally recognise them as genocide are Argentina, Belgium, Canada, France, Italy, Russia and Uruguay.
Turkey maintains that many of the dead were killed in clashes during World War One, and that ethnic Turks also suffered in the conflict.
The "objectivity standards" displayed by BBC are the reason why I really lost a lot of respect for them. They are the very epitome of the type of "the truth is in the middle" pseudo-objective journalism that would pit a Holocaust survivor against a Holocaust denier, to pretend they are fair and balanced.
Edit: Although in the second part of the article they are no longer using the scare quotes, and in the first part it is somewhat justified as they are quoting the Pope.
Also, good for Frank. I feel about him the same as Bill Maher does - i.e. sometimes he says stupid shit to pander to the base, but generally is quite a decent bloke, for a Pope.
Timmay is all foul mouthed this morning.
*faints*
Also, fuck the BBC for putting bleeding wounds in quotation marks, what a pathetic display of cowardice.
'The Draem' (Danish Remembrance Armenian Empathy Messenger) is a sculpture being put up in a square in Copenhagen in 10 days. I expect it to be defaced within a couple of hours and to be used for quick poltical points within minutes.
Rendition:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmultimedia.pol.dk%2Farchive%2F00928%2Fkultorvet1_928234a.jpg&hash=d9cf305764113e0ef52ab40a3d4a1a2984ae09f4)
Shockingly, the EU parliament concurs! I'm astonished! :o
Wonder if the BBC will put this one in quotes as well?
http://news.yahoo.com/turkeys-erdogan-says-disregard-european-view-armenian-killings-083736104.html
QuoteEuropean Parliament votes to call 1915 Armenian killings genocide
By Adrian Croft and Ayla Jean Yackley
9 hours ago
BRUSSELS/ISTANBUL (Reuters) - The European Parliament backed a motion on Wednesday that calls the massacre a century ago of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turkish forces a "genocide", days after Pope Francis triggered fury in Turkey by using the same term.
Although the resolution repeated language previously adopted by the parliament in 1987, it could stoke tensions with EU candidate nation Turkey. Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said even before the vote took place that he would ignore the result.
After the vote, the Turkish foreign ministry accused the European Parliament of attempting to rewrite history.
Muslim Turkey agrees that Christian Armenians were killed in clashes with Ottoman forces that began on April 15, 1915, when large numbers of Armenians lived in the empire ruled by Istanbul, but denies that this amounted to genocide.
Armenia, some Western historians and foreign parliaments refer to the mass killings as genocide.
Voting by show of hands, European lawmakers overwhelmingly backed the motion stating that the "tragic events that took place in 1915-1917 against the Armenians in the territory of the Ottoman Empire represent a genocide".
Armenia's Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian hailed the resolution as a move aimed at defending human rights.
"The Resolution contains an important message to Turkey to use the commemoration of the centenary of the Armenian Genocide to come to terms with its past, to recognize the Armenian Genocide and thus pave the way for a genuine reconciliation between Turkish and Armenian peoples," he said in a statement.
Pope Francis sparked a diplomatic row last Sunday by calling the killings "the first genocide of the 20th century". His remarks prompted Turkey to summon the Vatican's ambassador to the Holy See and to recall its own.
The European Parliament sprang to the pope's defense, commending the message the pontiff delivered at the weekend.
"IN ONE EAR, OUT THE OTHER"
Turkey is a candidate country to join the 28-nation EU but accession talks have dragged on for years with little progress.
Earlier, Erdogan told a news conference that "whatever decision the European Parliament took on Armenian genocide claims would "go in one ear and out the other".
"It is out of the question for there to be a stain, a shadow called 'genocide', on Turkey," he said at Ankara airport before departing on a visit to Kazakhstan.
Last year, when he was Turkey's prime minister, Erdogan offered what his government said were unprecedented condolences to the grandchildren of Armenians killed during World War One.
Wednesday's resolution said such statements were a step in the right direction, but legislators urged Turkey to go further.
In a statement after the vote, Turkey's foreign ministry said lawmakers who backed the resolution were in partnership with "those who have nothing to do with European values and are feeding on hatred, revenge and the culture of conflict".
(Additional reporting by Humeyra Pamuk and Ece Toksabay in Ankara, Francesco Guarascio in Brussels, Hasmik Mkrtchyan in Yerevan; Editing by Gareth Jones)
Why would you be surprised, Tim? The European Parliament is pretty decent on things like that. The problem is that they lack political power.
Also:
QuoteHis remarks prompted Turkey to summon the Vatican's ambassador to the Holy See
:hmm:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 16, 2015, 01:01:57 AMwould "go in one ear and out the other".
Because there's nothing in between to stop it.
Quote from: Liep on April 14, 2015, 03:37:01 PM
'The Draem' (Danish Remembrance Armenian Empathy Messenger)
Is that like a realm spell setup? My Birthright set doesn't have anything about genocides, but it could be cool.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 16, 2015, 02:58:09 AM
Quote from: Liep on April 14, 2015, 03:37:01 PM
'The Draem' (Danish Remembrance Armenian Empathy Messenger)
Is that like a realm spell setup? My Birthright set doesn't have anything about genocides, but it could be cool.
Yes, it gives +3 to Smugness to the casting nation and +3 to Anger to the target of the spell.
By the way, Birthright is the most interesting RPG I read but never played. :(
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2015, 04:20:12 AM
Yes, it gives +3 to Smugness to the casting nation and +3 to Anger to the target of the spell.
The smugness is quite visible today on our overly decorated politicians as they celebrate our Queen. Although, they are caught between not wanting to anger the Turks too much by saying the g-word and this freedom of speech malarkey.
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2015, 04:20:45 AM
By the way, Birthright is the most interesting RPG I read but never played. :(
Had a lot of fun with it back in the day. You can download a Birthright Mod for Crusader Kings 2.
The German parliament will have a memorial for the murdered Armenians, but the government has struck the term "genocide" from all documents, instead referring to massacres and forced relocations.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 16, 2015, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2015, 04:20:45 AM
By the way, Birthright is the most interesting RPG I read but never played. :(
Had a lot of fun with it back in the day. You can download a Birthright Mod for Crusader Kings 2.
:o Awesome!
Well, Austria pissed off the Turks, too:
http://www.thelocal.at/20150423/turkey-recalls-austria-ambassador-over-genocide
QuoteGenocide row: Turkey recalls ambassador
Turkey recalled its ambassador to Austria on Wednesday in protest over Austrian lawmakers' condemnation of the massacre of Armenians by Ottoman Turk forces 100 years ago as "genocide".
"The declaration by the Austrian parliament permanently scarred the friendship and relations between Turkey and Austria," the Turkish foreign ministry said, announcing it was recalling ambassador Hasan Gogus "for consultations".
Two days before the centenary of the killings in eastern Turkey, Austrian parliamentarians held a minute of silence Wednesday for the victims of what they labelled a "genocide" for the first time.
"April 24, 1915 marks the beginning of the persecutions, which ended in genocide," parliament president Doris Bures said before the silent tribute.
The leaders of Austria's six major parties also issued a statement declaring that Austria, as a former ally of the Ottoman Empire, had a "duty to recognise and condemn these horrific events as genocide".
They called on Turkey - which rejects the highly sensitive term to describe the World War I killings - to take responsibility for its role in the mass murders.
"It is Turkey's duty to face the dark and painful chapter of its past and recognise the crimes committed against Armenians under the Ottoman empire as genocide," the statement read.
The Turkish foreign ministry accused the Austrians of "historically tendentious behaviour" and an "insult to the Turkish people that is contrary to the facts".
Armenians say up to 1.5 million of their ancestors were killed in a military campaign aimed at eradicating the Armenian people from Anatolia, in what is now eastern Turkey.
They have long sought to win international recognition of the massacres as genocide.
Turkey, while saying it shares the pain of Armenians over the events, has always vehemently rejected use of the term genocide, contending that hundreds of thousands were killed on both sides as Ottoman forces battled the Russian empire for control of Anatolia.
Earlier this month, Pope Francis drew Turkey's wrath after describing the killings as "the first genocide of the 20th century".
Turkey summoned the Vatican's ambassador in Ankara over the remarks and recalled the Turkish envoy to the Holy See.
More than 20 nations, including France and Russia, have recognised the Armenian genocide.
QuoteAustria, as a former ally of the Ottoman Empire
:hmm:
They were allies in World War I. So that erases centuries and centuries of constant warfare :P
QuoteTurkey, while saying it shares the pain of Armenians over the events, has always vehemently rejected use of the term genocide, contending that hundreds of thousands were killed on both sides as Ottoman forces battled the Russian empire for control of Anatolia.
So it all comes down to semantic then. I mean once you admit to killing hundreds of thousands and all.
I actually can pretty much understand Turkey's position on this - not saying I agree with it, but the use of particular terms can be rather loaded.
There doesn't really seem to be much disagreement about the facts of what happened, just on what it should be called...
Quote from: Berkut on April 23, 2015, 07:44:16 AM
I actually can pretty much understand Turkey's position on this - not saying I agree with it, but the use of particular terms can be rather loaded.
There doesn't really seem to be much disagreement about the facts of what happened, just on what it should be called...
Just as what happened in Rwanda may or may not be called a genocide. The dead are still dead, and for exactly the same reasons, no matter whether a genocide is called a genocide or just whatever weaselly term the Turks prefer.
Actually, let me revise that a bit...
I can understand why the Turks would rather not call it a genocide, and there is a case to be argued about whether that term fits the agreed upon facts or not.
Their acting like douchebags with the tantrums about others (also reasonably) calling it a genocide is pretty infantile, and kind of shows them to be rather immature.
I can understand why the Turks would rather not calling it a genocide too. Making the admission would have consequences.
I am comforted that others like many Western Governments have acted in a "pretty infantile" manner and have appropriately labeled the deportation of a whole ethnicity from their homeland to another region of the empire without providing for the means for those people to survive the trek so that over 1 million men, women and children died.
I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2015, 11:35:00 AM
I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.
Just let him go. This is how he "argues". What I said doesn't really matter.
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2015, 11:35:00 AM
I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.
CC misunderstand? Unpossible!
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2015, 11:35:00 AM
I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.
Ah, with his poor grammar it is often hard to tell but it seems you are probably correct.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 24, 2015, 11:37:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2015, 11:35:00 AM
I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.
Ah, with his poor grammar it is often hard to tell but it seems you are probably correct.
Actually, his grammar was fine, and his point clear, to those who bothered to read it.
Quote from: grumbler on April 24, 2015, 11:39:31 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 24, 2015, 11:37:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2015, 11:35:00 AM
I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.
Ah, with his poor grammar it is often hard to tell but it seems you are probably correct.
Actually, his grammar was fine, and his point clear, to those who bothered to read it.
I am glad that this sort of thing comes easily to you.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 24, 2015, 11:40:46 AM
I am glad that this sort of thing comes easily to you.
I am sorry for your clients' sake that reading for comprehension comes so hard for you.
Quote from: grumbler on April 24, 2015, 11:41:48 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 24, 2015, 11:40:46 AM
I am glad that this sort of thing comes easily to you.
I am sorry for your clients' sake that reading for comprehension comes so hard for you.
Normally the things I read have proper sentences. So yes, both my clients and I are fortunate to be able to communicate on that level.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 24, 2015, 11:37:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2015, 11:35:00 AM
I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.
Ah, with his poor grammar it is often hard to tell but it seems you are probably correct.
Even when he is 100% obviously wrong, he is just incapable of actually admitting it - even over something completely trivial.
:lmfao:
Something completely trivial like genocide?
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 24, 2015, 11:53:53 AM
Normally the things I read have proper sentences. So yes, both my clients and I are fortunate to be able to communicate on that level.
Well, it is a good thing that Dick, Jane, and Spot are your only clients.
I gotta say - I thought that having the asshole trio of grumbler, Berkut and CC at each other's throats would be amusing - but it is still tacky. :yucky:
Quote from: Martinus on April 24, 2015, 03:06:16 PM
I gotta say - I thought that having the asshole trio of grumbler, Berkut and CC at each other's throats would be amusing - but it is still tacky. :yucky:
Now that you are on the scene, our assholiness is completely redundant, so I can retire from this topic. Maybe I'll just go back to the one where you rage against anybody who thinks murderers have similarities. :lol:
The Armenian genocide issue seems so odd. It was a century ago--a historical event basically out of living memory. It is an odd topic for western legislatures and governments to be debating and holding votes regarding.
What is odder is that Turkey cares. The world could rise up as one and say, "that was genocide" and I'm not convinced there would be any negative implications whatsoever to the Turkish state or people.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 24, 2015, 10:25:38 PM
The Armenian genocide issue seems so odd. It was a century ago--a historical event basically out of living memory. It is an odd topic for western legislatures and governments to be debating and holding votes regarding.
What is odder is that Turkey cares. The world could rise up as one and say, "that was genocide" and I'm not convinced there would be any negative implications whatsoever to the Turkish state or people.
I think you are missing the emotive point in this...that is, the Armenian genocide (or whatever) happened at the moment of flux in the Ottoman Empire when the Young Turks were failing and luminaries such as Ataturk were rising. In short, it is part of the events of the birth of the modern nation of Turkey. Whether or not a hundred years is nothing to you, remember that there are people in the US who get frothy and foamy about what the peccadilloes of a Founding Father were, and that was more than twice as much in the past.
Don't mess with rituals, beliefs, or emotional attachments - unless you want a backlash.
Quote from: Martinus on April 24, 2015, 03:06:16 PM
I gotta say - I thought that having the asshole trio of grumbler, Berkut and CC at each other's throats would be amusing - but it is still tacky. :yucky:
Typically, grumbler strings CC out over several boring pages. If you want amusement, see grumbler vs. Raz.
http://www.thelocal.de/20150424/gauck-germany-has-blame-for-armenian-genocide
QuoteSteinmeier: Armenia wasn't genocide
Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier insisted on Friday that calling Armenian massacres genocide risks belittling the Holocaust, after President Joachim Gauck broke a taboo by using the word on Thursday.
Steinmeier stuck to his guns on Friday, arguing in an interview with Spiegel that "We in Germany need to be careful not to give justification to those who follow their own political agenda and say the Holocaust started before 1933.'"
"I'm tired of debates in which I'm expected to jump over a stick which is being held out for me, although everyone knows that complex memories can rarely be brought together under one word," the foreign minister said.
"The simple reduction of this debate to the question of whether we describe it as genocide or not" doesn't help "end the silence that persists between Turks and Armenians."
Steinmeier has come in for fierce criticism this week, with one high profile politician comparing him to Germany's First World War leadership.
Both Gauck and Bundestag (German parliament) president Norbert Lammert condemned the massacre of 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman forces a century ago as a "genocide", the first time Germany has officially used the term.
Gauck's speech at an event commemorating the centenary marked the first time that Berlin has officially used the word "genocide" to describe the killings in Armenia, and an unusually strong acknowledgement of the then German Empire's role.
"In this case we Germans must come to terms with the past regarding our shared responsibility, possibly shared guilt, for the genocide against the Armenians," he said at the ecumenical service in Berlin.
He was joined in using the word genocide by Bundestag (German parliament) president Norbert Lammert.
Lammert opened a debate on Armenia in the chamber by saying that "what happened in the Ottoman Empire before the eyes of the world was a genocide. It did not remain the last one of the 20th Century.
"That makes our obligation not to repress or gloss over the crimes committed then that much bigger, out of respect for the victims and with responsibility for cause and effect."
Armenians say up to 1.5 million of their kin were killed between 1915 and 1917 as the Ottoman Empire was falling apart and have long sought to win international recognition of the massacres as genocide.
Modern Turkey, the successor state to the Ottoman Empire, rejects the claim, arguing that 300,000 to 500,000 Armenians and as many Turks died in civil strife when Armenians rose up against their Ottoman rulers and sided with invading Russian troops.
Gauck's statement was expected to draw an angry reaction from Ankara, which has close defence and trade ties with Berlin.
Germany also has a three-million-strong ethnic Turkish population deriving from a massive "guest worker" programme in the 1960s and 1970s.
Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said earlier Thursday that a decision by Austrian lawmakers this week to condemn the massacre as "genocide" would have "unfavourable repercussions" for bilateral ties.
Gauck, a Protestant pastor and former East German dissident, is the head of state and serves as a kind of moral arbiter for the nation.
Nazis banned book
In his speech at the Berlin Cathedral, Gauck said that particularly given Nazi Germany's slaughter of six million Jews during World War II, for which Berlin has publicly atoned for decades, it must also own up to its historical guilt in the Armenian mass murders.
"Woman and men, children and the elderly were indiscriminately sent on death marches, banished without any protection or food to the steppe and the desert, burned alive, chased, beaten and shot to death," he said.
"This planned and calculated criminal act targeted the Armenians for a sole reason: because they were Armenians."
Gauck said that the German empire, then allied with the Ottomans, deployed soldiers who took part in "planning and, in part, carrying out the deportations".
German diplomats and observers who reported back to Berlin the atrocities they witnessed were "ignored" for fear of jeopardising relations with the Ottomans, he said.
Gauck said that the Nazis even banned an Austrian novel about the mass murders but that the book was read in Jewish ghettos in the 1930s "as a harbinger of what was to come for the Jews".
He said it was impossible to walk away from guilt through "denial, repression or trivialisation" of history.
"We in Germany learned the hard way, in part by shameful procrastination, to remember the crimes of the Nazi era, above all the persecution and extermination of European Jews," he said.
The presidents of Russia and France - two of nearly two dozen countries to formally recognise the genocide - are to join a handful of world leaders attending a commemoration of the massacre in the Armenian capital Yerevan on Friday.
Germany plans to send a junior foreign minister to the event.
While Gauck clearly labelled the mass murders a genocide, the German government has backed a compromise resolution to be debated on Friday in parliament.
"Their fate exemplifies the history of the mass murders, ethnic cleansing campaigns, expulsions, indeed the genocides that marked the 20th century in such a horrible way," reads the draft text obtained by AFP on Monday.
The Turkish foreign ministry issued a statement condemning Gauck, and that he has no right to accuse Turkey of crimes that have no basis in facts. The ministry said that the Turkish people will never forget and never forgive his words, and that the Turkish diaspora in Germany would certainly make their opinion heard over having their heritage smudged like this.
Steinmeier :yuk:
Business as usual in Ankara...
Quote from: PDH on April 24, 2015, 11:00:30 PM
I think you are missing the emotive point in this...that is, the Armenian genocide (or whatever) happened at the moment of flux in the Ottoman Empire when the Young Turks were failing and luminaries such as Ataturk were rising. In short, it is part of the events of the birth of the modern nation of Turkey. Whether or not a hundred years is nothing to you, remember that there are people in the US who get frothy and foamy about what the peccadilloes of a Founding Father were, and that was more than twice as much in the past.
Don't mess with rituals, beliefs, or emotional attachments - unless you want a backlash.
The Armenian genocide was perpetrated by the Ottoman regime, and to a certain extent, the main ringleaders were run out of Turkey after the war by the founders of the new Turkish state such as Ataturk. I realize the events are more nuanced, but it seems quite possible to lump in the genocide with the other Ottoman nonsense that was replaced with the new Turkish state.
My main point was this, and I'll pick up on the analogy with the modern founding fathers. I'd find it odd if some legislature in an Australian state was debating and voting on a resolution regarding whether Thomas Jefferson should be denounced for raping his slaves. I'd find it far more odd and stupid of the US responded by curtailing diplomatic relations over such resolutions.
2500 Armenians marched in memory of the centenary through Vienna. The Turkish counter protest was 4500 strong, drummed up on short notice from Vienna and surrounding states. They say that Austria stabbed Turkey in the back because of Armenian lies, chanted Allahu Akbar and called for Turkish sanctions against Austria.
Hey Turkish diaspore, if you don't like what the German President is saying, why don't you GTFO.
Quote from: Martinus on April 26, 2015, 01:06:16 AM
Hey Turkish diaspore, if you don't like what the German President is saying, why don't you GTFO.
That was Austria, where the parliament was unanimous about calling it a genocide. Never thought I'd live to see the day where Austrian politics are more willing to take a clear stance than German ones. :lol:
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2015, 12:41:26 AM
2500 Armenians marched in memory of the centenary through Vienna. The Turkish counter protest was 4500 strong, drummed up on short notice from Vienna and surrounding states. They say that Austria stabbed Turkey in the back because of Armenian lies, chanted Allahu Akbar and called for Turkish sanctions against Austria.
the Turks aren't exactly good at making friends it seems... And we know what happens with unfriendly populations worldwide and throughout history.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 26, 2015, 06:38:52 AM
the Turks aren't exactly good at making friends it seems... And we know what happens with unfriendly populations worldwide and throughout history.
What happens to them? Spell it out.
Quote from: Zanza on April 26, 2015, 08:15:16 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 26, 2015, 06:38:52 AM
the Turks aren't exactly good at making friends it seems... And we know what happens with unfriendly populations worldwide and throughout history.
What happens to them? Spell it out.
ask the turks, but get ready for some denial
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2015, 12:41:26 AM
2500 Armenians marched in memory of the centenary through Vienna. The Turkish counter protest was 4500 strong, drummed up on short notice from Vienna and surrounding states. They say that Austria stabbed Turkey in the back because of Armenian lies, chanted Allahu Akbar and called for Turkish sanctions against Austria.
Is the Turkish diaspora (even) worse in Austria than in Germany?