Turks rage over the Pope's Armenian genocide claim

[jimmy olsen]

By the way, Birthright is the most interesting RPG I read but never played.

Had a lot of fun with it back in the day.  You can download a Birthright Mod for Crusader Kings 2.

Awesome!

[Syt]

Well, Austria pissed off the Turks, too:

http://www.thelocal.at/20150423/turkey-recalls-austria-ambassador-over-genocide

Genocide row: Turkey recalls ambassador

Turkey recalled its ambassador to Austria on Wednesday in protest over Austrian lawmakers' condemnation of the massacre of Armenians by Ottoman Turk forces 100 years ago as "genocide".

"The declaration by the Austrian parliament permanently scarred the friendship and relations between Turkey and Austria," the Turkish foreign ministry said, announcing it was recalling ambassador Hasan Gogus "for consultations".

Two days before the centenary of the killings in eastern Turkey, Austrian parliamentarians held a minute of silence Wednesday for the victims of what they labelled a "genocide" for the first time.

"April 24, 1915 marks the beginning of the persecutions, which ended in genocide," parliament president Doris Bures said before the silent tribute.

The leaders of Austria's six major parties also issued a statement declaring that Austria, as a former ally of the Ottoman Empire, had a "duty to recognise and condemn these horrific events as genocide".

They called on Turkey - which rejects the highly sensitive term to describe the World War I killings -  to take responsibility for its role in the mass murders.

"It is Turkey's duty to face the dark and painful chapter of its past and recognise the crimes committed against Armenians under the Ottoman empire as genocide," the statement read.

The Turkish foreign ministry accused the Austrians of "historically tendentious behaviour" and an "insult to the Turkish people that is contrary to the facts".

Armenians say up to 1.5 million of their ancestors were killed in a military campaign aimed at eradicating the Armenian people from Anatolia, in what is now eastern Turkey.

They have long sought to win international recognition of the massacres as genocide.

Turkey, while saying it shares the pain of Armenians over the events, has always vehemently rejected use of the term genocide, contending that hundreds of thousands were killed on both sides as Ottoman forces battled the Russian empire for control of Anatolia.

Earlier this month, Pope Francis drew Turkey's wrath after describing the killings as "the first genocide of the 20th century".

Turkey summoned the Vatican's ambassador in Ankara over the remarks and recalled the Turkish envoy to the Holy See.

More than 20 nations, including France and Russia, have recognised the Armenian genocide.

[Martinus]

Austria, as a former ally of the Ottoman Empire

[Valmy]

They were allies in World War I. So that erases centuries and centuries of constant warfare 

Turkey, while saying it shares the pain of Armenians over the events, has always vehemently rejected use of the term genocide, contending that hundreds of thousands were killed on both sides as Ottoman forces battled the Russian empire for control of Anatolia.

So it all comes down to semantic then. I mean once you admit to killing hundreds of thousands and all.

[Berkut]

I actually can pretty much understand Turkey's position on this - not saying I agree with it, but the use of particular terms can be rather loaded.

There doesn't really seem to be much disagreement about the facts of what happened, just on what it should be called...

[grumbler]

I actually can pretty much understand Turkey's position on this - not saying I agree with it, but the use of particular terms can be rather loaded.

There doesn't really seem to be much disagreement about the facts of what happened, just on what it should be called...

Just as what happened in Rwanda may or may not be called a genocide.  The dead are still dead, and for exactly the same reasons, no matter whether a genocide is called a genocide or just whatever weaselly term the Turks prefer.

[Berkut]

Actually, let me revise that a bit...

I can understand why the Turks would rather not call it a genocide, and there is a case to be argued about whether that term fits the agreed upon facts or not.

Their acting like douchebags with the tantrums about others (also reasonably) calling it a genocide is pretty infantile, and kind of shows them to be rather immature.

[crazy canuck]

I can understand why the Turks would rather not calling it a genocide too.  Making the admission would have consequences.

I am comforted that others like many Western Governments have acted in a "pretty infantile" manner and have appropriately labeled the deportation of a whole ethnicity from their homeland to another region of the empire without providing for the means for those people to survive the trek so that over 1 million men, women and children died.

[Valmy]

I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.

[Berkut]

I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.

Just let him go. This is how he "argues". What I said doesn't really matter.

[grumbler]

I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.

CC misunderstand?  Unpossible!

[crazy canuck]

I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.

Ah, with his poor grammar it is often hard to tell but it seems you are probably correct.

[grumbler]

I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.

Ah, with his poor grammar it is often hard to tell but it seems you are probably correct.

Actually, his grammar was fine, and his point clear, to those who bothered to read it.

[crazy canuck]

I think you misunderstand CC. Berkut was calling the Turks pretty infantile.

Ah, with his poor grammar it is often hard to tell but it seems you are probably correct.

Actually, his grammar was fine, and his point clear, to those who bothered to read it.

I am glad that this sort of thing comes easily to you.

[grumbler]

I am glad that this sort of thing comes easily to you.

I am sorry for your clients' sake that reading for comprehension comes so hard for you.