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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on March 20, 2015, 02:15:26 AM

Title: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 20, 2015, 02:15:26 AM
Lol  :lol:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/03/19/new_hampshire_legislatures_kill_fourth_graders_bill_and_dreams.html

QuoteNew Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders' Bill, Dreams In Front of Them

By Mark Joseph Stern

Last Thursday, fourth graders from Hampton Falls, New Hampshire visited their state legislature to observe a bit of democracy in action. The children had previously proposed House Bill 373, establishing the Red Tail Hawk as the New Hampshire State Raptor, as part of a civics lesson in how bills become laws. Their measure had already sailed out of the Environmental and Agriculture Committee. Now the young students gathered in the House galley to watch their bill pass its next hurdle.

But the nine and ten-year-olds were in for a brutal lesson in realpolitik. At the start of the day, legislators turned and applauded to children for coming to the statehouse. When lawmakers began to consider the bill, however, Republican Rep. Warren Groen—who has devoted his career to combating abortion and marriage equality—took the floor to denounce the Red Tail Hawk. "It grasps [its prey] with its talons then uses its razor sharp beak to basically tear it apart limb by limb," he explained as the children watched. "And I guess the shame about making this a state bird is it would serve as a much better mascot for Planned Parenthood."

Rep. John Burt, another Republican, also castigated the effort to name an official state raptor. "Bottom line," he said, "if we keep bringing more of these bills, and bills, and bills forward that really I think we shouldn't have in front of us, we'll be picking a state hot dog next."

A number of other legislators, it seems, shared Burt's and Groen's concerns: Ultimately, the House killed the bill by a 133-160 vote. In the end, New Hampshire's lawmakers may have crushed the dreams of several fourth graders. But in fairness, the legislators probably gave the students a better lesson in the realities of American democracy than their teacher ever could have hoped.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Martinus on March 20, 2015, 02:17:56 AM
Republicans are assholes. Film at 11.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Martinus on March 20, 2015, 02:20:38 AM
By the way, isn't it funny how consistently pro-lifers, who usually are against sex educators, gay rights advocates and feminists "demoralising the young" with inappropriate content are perfectly fine with talking about abortion or showing pictures of aborted fetuses to kids?
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Agelastus on March 20, 2015, 03:18:46 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 20, 2015, 02:17:56 AM
Republicans are assholes. Film at 11.

Groen's clearly an asshole;I agree with Burt though.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Ideologue on March 20, 2015, 03:22:01 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on March 20, 2015, 03:18:46 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 20, 2015, 02:17:56 AM
Republicans are assholes. Film at 11.

Groen's clearly an asshole;I agree with Burt though.

Concur.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: garbon on March 20, 2015, 06:10:50 AM
Odd that Marti would support something just for the children. :hmm:
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on March 20, 2015, 07:00:59 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 20, 2015, 03:22:01 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on March 20, 2015, 03:18:46 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 20, 2015, 02:17:56 AM
Republicans are assholes. Film at 11.

Groen's clearly an asshole;I agree with Burt though.

Concur.
Yeah.
Title: Save e-
Post by: mongers on March 20, 2015, 08:08:39 AM
Aren't US states well know for having a state bird, flower, 'offical' nickname and so on? :unsure:

I think some of their objects are reasonable, though my own view is birds are special, in that there's a lot of state symbolism attached to birds down through the ages. So state bird yes, state cuisine, mushroom, piece of furniture, no.

edit:
Oh it was for a state raptor, so change my opinion to no, if they've already got a bird.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 20, 2015, 08:12:24 AM
Coffee milk is the official drink of Rhode Island  :yucky:
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: mongers on March 20, 2015, 08:12:53 AM
OK, now that I've looked on wiki, are any of these official, confirm by some similar bill as above, there by convention or are people just making some up for wiki?

Quote
Animal and Plant insignia
Amphibian   Red-spotted newt
Notophthalmus viridescens
Bird(s)   Purple finch
Haemorhous purpureus
Butterfly   Karner Blue
Lycaeides melissa samuelis
Dog breed   Chinook
Fish   Freshwater: Brook trout
Salvelinus fontinalis
Saltwater: Striped bass
Morone saxatilis
Flower(s)   Purple lilac
Syringa vulgaris
Insect   Ladybug
Coccinellidae
Mammal(s)   White-tailed deer
Odocoileus virginianus
Tree   White birch
Betula papyrifera
Inanimate insignia
Food   Fruit: Pumpkin
Vegetable: White Potato
Gemstone   Smoky quartz
Mineral   Beryl
Motto   Live Free or Die
Rock   Granite
Song(s)   "Old New Hampshire"
Sport   Skiing
Tartan   New Hampshire State Tartan
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Jacob on March 20, 2015, 10:50:02 AM
I wonder if that will impact the children's voting patterns in the future; or that of their families in the present.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: DontSayBanana on March 20, 2015, 11:15:10 AM
The difference between the two is that Burt had a good, if bitter, point; Groen was just using the debate for a soapbox in about as inappropriate a setting as could be imagined.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Ed Anger on March 20, 2015, 11:15:40 AM
Good.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Caliga on March 20, 2015, 01:16:08 PM
I think states should have a State Rock Song before they have a State Raptor. IIRC only a few states have picked State Rock Songs so far.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Grey Fox on March 20, 2015, 01:22:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 20, 2015, 02:20:38 AM
By the way, isn't it funny how consistently pro-lifers, who usually are against sex educators, gay rights advocates and feminists "demoralising the young" with inappropriate content are perfectly fine with talking about abortion or showing pictures of aborted fetuses to kids?

Sex is bad, it is the worse of things. Anything is reasonable when you are fighting sex.
Title: Re: Save e-
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 20, 2015, 01:24:48 PM
Quote from: mongers on March 20, 2015, 08:08:39 AM
Oh it was for a state raptor, so change my opinion to no, if they've already got a bird.

Yeah. One state bird is enough.
Title: Re:New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: The Brain on March 20, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
I haven't heard.
Title: Re: NH Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 20, 2015, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on March 20, 2015, 11:15:10 AM
The difference between the two is that Burt had a good, if bitter, point;

Really?  Was there some other pressing business of the New Hampshire legislature that was derailed here?  (If Groen's outburst is typical of business as usual there clearly not). 

Was this really the right time and place to make a big stand on this critical point of principle? Is it possible to have some basic perspective and common sense?   

They are 4 graders, be a freakin mensch and pass their bill; make your big principled crabby sarcastic stand some other time.

EDIT:  Is there any doubt that if some big donor asked Burt to sponsor something equally pointless he would have jumped up and done it?   asshole.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Caliga on March 20, 2015, 02:04:10 PM
No, I think the kids learned an important lesson here.  Republicans mean BUSINESS. :bowler:
Title: Re:New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: The Brain on March 20, 2015, 02:22:01 PM
I find the idea that political decisions should be made based on how you don't want to hurt some children's feelings a bit... odd.
Title: Re: NH Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Habbaku on March 20, 2015, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 20, 2015, 01:59:09 PM
They are 4 graders, be a freakin mensch and pass their bill; make your big principled crabby sarcastic stand some other time.

What's the age cut-off for not taking a crabby, sarcastic stance?  High-schoolers?
Title: Re: NH Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Razgovory on March 20, 2015, 03:59:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 20, 2015, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on March 20, 2015, 11:15:10 AM
The difference between the two is that Burt had a good, if bitter, point;

Really?  Was there some other pressing business of the New Hampshire legislature that was derailed here?  (If Groen's outburst is typical of business as usual there clearly not). 

Was this really the right time and place to make a big stand on this critical point of principle? Is it possible to have some basic perspective and common sense?   

They are 4 graders, be a freakin mensch and pass their bill; make your big principled crabby sarcastic stand some other time.

EDIT:  Is there any doubt that if some big donor asked Burt to sponsor something equally pointless he would have jumped up and done it?   asshole.

Ooh, they are making JR mad!  He's getting all Jewish!
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: dps on March 20, 2015, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 20, 2015, 02:22:01 PM
I find the idea that political decisions should be made based on how you don't want to hurt some children's feelings a bit... odd.

Yeah.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: garbon on March 20, 2015, 04:26:01 PM
Is naming another state object a political decision?
Title: Re: NH Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: mongers on March 20, 2015, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 20, 2015, 03:59:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 20, 2015, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on March 20, 2015, 11:15:10 AM
The difference between the two is that Burt had a good, if bitter, point;

Really?  Was there some other pressing business of the New Hampshire legislature that was derailed here?  (If Groen's outburst is typical of business as usual there clearly not). 

Was this really the right time and place to make a big stand on this critical point of principle? Is it possible to have some basic perspective and common sense?   

They are 4 graders, be a freakin mensch and pass their bill; make your big principled crabby sarcastic stand some other time.

EDIT:  Is there any doubt that if some big donor asked Burt to sponsor something equally pointless he would have jumped up and done it?   asshole.

Ooh, they are making JR mad!  He's getting all Jewish!

Not wishing to comment on this post specifically, but we're certainly seeing a more combative JR in 2015.  :cool:
Title: Re: NH Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 20, 2015, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 20, 2015, 01:59:09 PM
Was this really the right time and place to make a big stand on this critical point of principle? Is it possible to have some basic perspective and common sense?   

Would a better time have been the vote on the official state amphibian, the official state bread, or the official state crayon color?
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Malthus on March 20, 2015, 05:51:32 PM
I'm gonna go with "assholes". The notion is that the valuable time of the state legislature was being wasted to entertain a class of grade 4 students - the logic being that the legislature's time was otherwise valuable.  :lol:
Title: save e-
Post by: mongers on March 20, 2015, 05:54:23 PM
What about official state dinosaurs, that way legislators could upset pre-schools through to 10 year olds.  :D
Title: Re: save e-
Post by: Malthus on March 20, 2015, 05:58:12 PM
Quote from: mongers on March 20, 2015, 05:54:23 PM
What about official state dinosaurs, that way legislators could upset pre-schools through to 10 year olds.  :D

Don't laugh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_dinosaurs

They could pick a really sucky one - "Our State Dinosaur is ... Microceratops".  :D

Edit: New Jersey did just that!  :lol: They chose Hadrosaurus foulkii ...
Title: Re: NH Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Malthus on March 20, 2015, 06:08:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 20, 2015, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 20, 2015, 01:59:09 PM
Was this really the right time and place to make a big stand on this critical point of principle? Is it possible to have some basic perspective and common sense?   

Would a better time have been the vote on the official state amphibian, the official state bread, or the official state crayon color?

New Hampshire already has a both a "state fruit" and a "state vegetable" (pumpkin and white potato, respectively).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_foods

The state vegetable was enacted in 2013:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2013/hb0535.html

Moreover, New Hampshire *does* have a state amphibian (the red-spotted newt).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_amphibians

Title: Re:New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Tonitrus on March 20, 2015, 06:35:05 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 20, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
I haven't heard.

Everybodys heard.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 20, 2015, 06:55:54 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 20, 2015, 05:51:32 PM
I'm gonna go with "assholes". The notion is that the valuable time of the state legislature was being wasted to entertain a class of grade 4 students - the logic being that the legislature's time was otherwise valuable.  :lol:
I should note that the New Hampshire Legislature is a part time job that only pays a $100 a year plus per diem.
Title: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: KRonn on March 20, 2015, 07:37:46 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 20, 2015, 06:55:54 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 20, 2015, 05:51:32 PM
I'm gonna go with "assholes". The notion is that the valuable time of the state legislature was being wasted to entertain a class of grade 4 students - the logic being that the legislature's time was otherwise valuable.  :lol:
I should note that the New Hampshire Legislature is a part time job that only pays a $100 a year plus per diem.

That is true, a much smaller government there and the people have never wanted a big government like in Mass, RI or Connecticut. But it's a small population there so it's easier to have a small government, though it's growing as more and more Mass people and others move there, and probably cause changes to the government  sooner than later now.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: mongers on March 20, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: KRonn on March 20, 2015, 07:37:46 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 20, 2015, 06:55:54 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 20, 2015, 05:51:32 PM
I'm gonna go with "assholes". The notion is that the valuable time of the state legislature was being wasted to entertain a class of grade 4 students - the logic being that the legislature's time was otherwise valuable.  :lol:
I should note that the New Hampshire Legislature is a part time job that only pays a $100 a year plus per diem.

That is true, a much smaller government there and the people have never wanted a big government like in Mass, RI or Connecticut. But it's a small population there so it's easier to have a small government, though it's growing as more and more Mass people and others move there, and probably cause changes to the government  sooner than later now.

Oh, I didn't realise New Hampshire had such a small population, indeed on checking turns out it's still smaller than the English one it's named after, my home county of Hampshire.  :bowler:
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 20, 2015, 08:26:26 PM
The only thing you need to know about New Hampshire is you can't get theah from heah.
Title: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: KRonn on March 20, 2015, 08:32:20 PM
Yeah, they've always prided themselves on a small government, without a full time legislature, and that sort of thing. During national elections voters expect the candidates to meet and hang out with people on a more cordial level, probably more so than in other states. It's a pretty state geographically. Lots of tourism - skiing in winter and summer vacation spots, lakes, camping, etc.
Title: Re: New Hampshire Legislators Kill Fourth Graders’ Bill & Dreams In Front of Them
Post by: Josquius on March 21, 2015, 07:13:52 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 20, 2015, 02:20:38 AM
By the way, isn't it funny how consistently pro-lifers, who usually are against sex educators, gay rights advocates and feminists "demoralising the young" with inappropriate content are perfectly fine with talking about abortion or showing pictures of aborted fetuses to kids?

"Look how gross an abortion is" is the strongest argument of the anti choicers