Languish.org

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F7%2F7a%2FMichael_Dickinson._Best_in_Show.jpg&hash=4a46d333ade4a2fc012aa09a5acbdb439ed14cd0)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F7%2F73%2FMichael_Dickinson._Good_Boy.jpg&hash=e71871a61d02f880ff558bebeaaf327fe4640a4e)

They're awful.

They're fugly. I don't know about good art, good in what sense?

They're political statements, right? So don't have to be beautiful art, but mainly to get the point across that the artist is trying to convey.

Quote from: KRonn on February 20, 2015, 03:21:25 PM
They're political statements, right? So don't have to be beautiful art, but mainly to get the point across that the artist is trying to convey.

That BUSH = HITLER

Quote from: KRonn on February 20, 2015, 03:21:25 PM
They're political statements, right? So don't have to be beautiful art, but mainly to get the point across that the artist is trying to convey.

For something that claims to be art I would think that mere "message" would be insufficient; if it was solely about "point" then a billboard slogan would have got it across just as well. It would be equally as unsubtle, anyway.

To call these pictures "art" strikes me as being insulting to all the political or satirical artists of the past, be they acknowledged greats or simply determined journeymen. A five year old might not be able to create a picture like this with a specific "message" but he could produce one of equal artistic skill and merit in all other respects.

He's no James Gillray, that's for sure.

Quote from: KRonn on February 20, 2015, 03:21:25 PM
They're political statements, right? So don't have to be beautiful art, but mainly to get the point across that the artist is trying to convey.

They don't have to be art at all.  And they are not.  They are ham-handed cartoons.  Something hideously unaesthetic doesn't become art simply because it is trying to make a point.  I'd argue the same point about the crucifix in the jar of urine.

Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2015, 04:34:32 PM

Quote from: KRonn on February 20, 2015, 03:21:25 PM
They're political statements, right? So don't have to be beautiful art, but mainly to get the point across that the artist is trying to convey.

They don't have to be art at all.  And they are not.  They are ham-handed cartoons.  Something hideously unaesthetic doesn't become art simply because it is trying to make a point.  I'd argue the same point about the crucifix in the jar of urine.

Agreed, however I never really wanted to dump on monger's acquaintance.

Looks like some early Fireblad LePen work, really.  :hmm:

How much?

Was monger's buddy trying to advance the argument that Erdogan was Wubya's lap dog?

Quote from: Valmy on February 20, 2015, 03:22:01 PM

Quote from: KRonn on February 20, 2015, 03:21:25 PM
They're political statements, right? So don't have to be beautiful art, but mainly to get the point across that the artist is trying to convey.

That BUSH = HITLER

I remember when any critisism of the Bush adminstriation could be hand waved off by the that phrase.  It was pretty much Yi's goto phrase.

Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2015, 04:57:28 PM
I remember when any critisism of the Bush adminstriation could be hand waved off by the that phrase.  It was pretty much Yi's goto phrase.

Was it, I've always associated the phrase with Valmy. Obama = Hitler too.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 20, 2015, 04:59:17 PM
Was it, I've always associated the phrase with Valmy. Obama = Hitler too.

Any US President that didn't die shortly after taking office = Hitler.  We just have the worst luck.

Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2015, 04:57:28 PM
I remember when any critisism of the Bush adminstriation could be hand waved off by the that phrase.  It was pretty much Yi's goto phrase.

Interesting juxtaposition of the passive and active voice Raz.

I'm all all about Juxtaposition. Do you remember posting "OMGBUSHHITLER!!!!", over and over again?  I remember it.

Yes I do.

It's dishonest Raz.  Don't you think being honest is a good quality?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2015, 05:10:36 PM
Yes I do.

It's dishonest Raz.  Don't you think being honest is a good quality?

What is dishonest?  Please explain.

That was me doing the Bushhitler thing. I was bored.

Quote from: Ed Anger on February 20, 2015, 05:23:29 PM
That was me doing the Bushhitler thing. I was bored.

I thought you just kept praising Hitler.

88

Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2015, 05:12:34 PM
What is dishonest?  Please explain.

If you have a beef with people who posted BUSHITLER whenever a criticism of him was made, direct it at them.  If you think I did this, come out and say it.  Don't just put the two thoughts together in hopes of spreading a false impression.   That's dishonest.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2015, 05:34:33 PM

Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2015, 05:12:34 PM
What is dishonest?  Please explain.

If you have a beef with people who posted BUSHITLER whenever a criticism of him was made, direct it at them.  If you think I did this, come out and say it.  Don't just put the two thoughts together in hopes of spreading a false impression.   That's dishonest.

I thought I did say that.  I thought that "It was pretty much Yi's go to phrase" was very clear.  If you prefer, I'll put it a different way.  Between 2004 and 2008 Yi used the phrase, "OMG Bushhitler1111!" whenever he wanted to blunt criticism of George W. Bush.  Yi was also deeply amused by the use of giant puppets during a anti-war rally and brought up their existence regularly, though was apparently less enamored with similar puppets used during a Tea Party rally which I brought to his attention though he has never referenced them.  It is my opinion that Yi used the phrase, "OMGBUSHHITLER111!", regularly because he felt it discredited any opposition as hyperbolic wingnuts.  When Republicans claim that Obama was a Nazi, a Communist, Muslim and a Kenyan in earnest, Yi has been surprisingly silent on the issue.

That's not what you said.  You suggested I used it whenever anyone criticized Bush.

I'm sorry you misunderstood.  Have I clarified it sufficiently for you now?

I didn't misunderstand; you miscommunicated.  I'm fine with your correction.

Well at least we are all on the same page.

Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2015, 06:04:50 PM
When Republicans claim that Obama was a Nazi, a Communist, Muslim and a Kenyan in earnest, Yi has been surprisingly silent on the issue.

For the record, I've never seriously claimed that President Obama is any of those 4 things (I may have joked about a couple of them, don't remember for sure), and I think that anyone who does claim any of them seriously is either lying or stupid (or if not stupid, at least sadly gullible).

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2015, 06:26:16 PM
I didn't misunderstand; you miscommunicated.  I'm fine with your correction.

Oh, the irony! :lol:

Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2015, 04:51:06 PM
Agreed, however I never really wanted to dump on monger's acquaintance.

You make a good point.  I didn't really realize that this was the work of Monger's bud; I thought Monger's bud was the guy telling the story of the artist's woes.

I'll just stifle myself on the topic from here on out.

Quote from: Valmy on February 20, 2015, 03:22:01 PM

Quote from: KRonn on February 20, 2015, 03:21:25 PM
They're political statements, right? So don't have to be beautiful art, but mainly to get the point across that the artist is trying to convey.

That BUSH = HITLER

No, I don't think the artist was making a point about Bush at all--this is about Erdogan and Turkey. Bush appears in the one picture because the audience is of the common understanding that Bush = Hitler (or at least is really bad).

We aren't in the context the pictures were made--the context being a quasi (and perhaps increasingly) repressive state of Turkey being led by Erdogan. The pictures aren't supposed to be pretty and hung on a wall at home--if nothing else putting shit in the first picture establishes that. They are supposed to be jarring and confrontational, in a way that we don't appreciate because we have freedom of the press and stupid looking stuff like this gets made all the time without consequence. But in Turkey this art was considered a criminal offense and the artist spent time in jail.

Maybe the artist isn't capable of more sophisticated art. I don't know. But a really sophisticated picture would be missing the point, wouldn't it?

Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2015, 07:17:36 PM
You make a good point.  I didn't really realize that this was the work of Monger's bud; I thought Monger's bud was the guy telling the story of the artist's woes.

I'll just stifle myself on the topic from here on out.

I didn't realize Mongers had a connection to the artist at all, I just thought he was being contrarian.  :sleep:

Still, this doesn't explain why Jacob was also defending these works.  :hmm:

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 20, 2015, 08:02:06 PM
I didn't realize Mongers had a connection to the artist at all, I just thought he was being contrarian.  :sleep:

Still, this doesn't explain why Jacob was also defending these works.  :hmm:

Jacob is a reflexive white knight for loonie lefties, much as Sheilbh is for eccentric politicians or I am for Michigan football.

Quote from: dps on February 20, 2015, 07:08:44 PM

Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2015, 06:04:50 PM
When Republicans claim that Obama was a Nazi, a Communist, Muslim and a Kenyan in earnest, Yi has been surprisingly silent on the issue.

For the record, I've never seriously claimed that President Obama is any of those 4 things (I may have joked about a couple of them, don't remember for sure), and I think that anyone who does claim any of them seriously is either lying or stupid (or if not stupid, at least sadly gullible).

A rather significant number of Republican voters have been polled thinking that he is in fact a Muslim.

Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2015, 08:50:00 PM

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 20, 2015, 08:02:06 PM
I didn't realize Mongers had a connection to the artist at all, I just thought he was being contrarian.  :sleep:

Still, this doesn't explain why Jacob was also defending these works.  :hmm:

Jacob is a reflexive white knight for loonie lefties, much as Sheilbh is for eccentric politicians or I am for Michigan football.

Oh Christ.  "White knight". :rolleyes:

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 20, 2015, 08:02:06 PMStill, this doesn't explain why Jacob was also defending these works.  :hmm:

I spent a lot of time in art school. I've spent a lot of time arguing the merits and flaws of all kinds of art, and I occasionally enjoy doing that still.

Dorsey articulated a good case for it - it's about context (it always is). In this case the artist is engaging effectively with concepts of free speech, nationalism, and dissent in present day Turkey. Whether grumbler thinks the work is pretty or technically skilled or not is neither here nor there.

Just like the point of Pussy Riot is not whether the songs are pleasant to listen to or musically proficient.

I don't know if that counts as defending the works or not. But I give full props to the guy for using art to engage politically, especially since I don't particularly object to his message.

Plankton: You pretentious, insignificant artist. Your sniveling creations are worth less than a protozoan's waste.

Quote from: Ed Anger on February 20, 2015, 09:51:16 PM
Plankton: You pretentious, insignificant artist. Your sniveling creations are worth less than a protozoan's waste.

Is that a quote from somewhere or a Monkeybutt original?

Quote from: Jacob on February 20, 2015, 09:53:17 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on February 20, 2015, 09:51:16 PM
Plankton: You pretentious, insignificant artist. Your sniveling creations are worth less than a protozoan's waste.

Is that a quote from somewhere or a Monkeybutt original?

Srsly?

It's from a SpongeBob cartoon.

Quote from: Ed Anger on February 20, 2015, 09:55:03 PM

Quote from: Jacob on February 20, 2015, 09:53:17 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on February 20, 2015, 09:51:16 PM
Plankton: You pretentious, insignificant artist. Your sniveling creations are worth less than a protozoan's waste.

Is that a quote from somewhere or a Monkeybutt original?

Srsly?

It's from a SpongeBob cartoon.

Yeah, never watched. Too old for it, and didn't have any young people around when it was a thing.

Oh.

Shitty art is shitty art.

Quote from: Jacob on February 20, 2015, 09:46:30 PM

Dorsey articulated a good case for it - it's about context (it always is). In this case the artist is engaging effectively with concepts of free speech, nationalism, and dissent in present day Turkey. Whether grumbler thinks the work is pretty or technically skilled or not is neither here nor there.

Just like the point of Pussy Riot is not whether the songs are pleasant to listen to or musically proficient.

You said that much more effectively than me.

Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2015, 09:39:28 PM

Quote from: dps on February 20, 2015, 07:08:44 PM

Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2015, 06:04:50 PM
When Republicans claim that Obama was a Nazi, a Communist, Muslim and a Kenyan in earnest, Yi has been surprisingly silent on the issue.

For the record, I've never seriously claimed that President Obama is any of those 4 things (I may have joked about a couple of them, don't remember for sure), and I think that anyone who does claim any of them seriously is either lying or stupid (or if not stupid, at least sadly gullible).

A rather significant number of Republican voters have been polled thinking that he is in fact a Muslim.

So?  Significant number of people in both parties are stupid.

Frankly, it wouldn't matter to me if he were a Moslem, but he's clearly not.