Because the slew of recent hateful, anti-LGBT legislation and other actions (like the judge in Alabama) seems to be both very nasty and very futile. Do they really believe in what they are doing? Because this is a thing that will make them look very bad in history books for decades to come.
Yes. But.
What did they do?
Sorry I don't read the Advocate.
It's just a slew of very reactionary, "bad faith" laws, like (just examples):
- a Florida law being proposed imposing prison sentence on transgendered people using a "wrong" bathroom;
- an Arkansas law which prohibits town/city councils from adopting anti-discrimination ordinances;
- a Texas law which prohibits (under prison sentence) state officials from issuing gay marriage licenses, in the event gay marriage is declared legal by courts;
- a chief justice of Alabama instructing local judges to ignore the ruling of the federal appeal court which struck down Alabama gay marriage ban as unconstitutional.
I wonder if Obama has guts to send in National Guard if push comes to shove.
QuoteAlabama chief justice threatens to sue judges who issue gay marriage licences
Despite that legally, same-sex couples should be able to marry from Monday in Alabama, the state's chief justice has instructed judges not to issue marriage licences to gay and lesbian couples.
Same-sex weddings are set to begin today in some parts of Alabama – though some probate judges are refusing to comply.
District court Judge Callie VS Granade ruled last month that the state's 'Sanctity of Marriage Amendment' – which defined marriage as between a man and a woman – was unconstitutional.
The chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court previously encouraged judges to flout the ruling.
Justice Roy Moore said in an order that judges in the state are not required to obey the ruling.
"Effective immediately," Moore wrote, "no Probate Judge of the State of Alabama nor any agent or employee of any Alabama Probate Judge shall issue or recognize a marriage license that is inconsistent" Alabama laws banning same-sex marriage.
Moore's order addressed 68 probate judges, who among other duties, issue marriage licences.
He went on to suggest that any judge issuing marriage licences could face legal action from the state's Governor.
If marriages are allowed to begin, Alabama will become the 37th state to recognise equal marriage.
So, how is this even legal?
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 02:42:05 AM
It's just a slew of very reactionary, "bad faith" laws, like (just examples):
- a Florida law being proposed imposing prison sentence on transgendered people using a "wrong" bathroom;
- an Arkansas law which prohibits town/city councils from adopting anti-discrimination ordinances;
- a Texas law which prohibits (under prison sentence) state officials from issuing gay marriage licenses, in the event gay marriage is declared legal by courts;
- a chief justice of Alabama instructing local judges to ignore the ruling of the federal appeal court which struck down Alabama gay marriage ban as unconstitutional.
I wonder if Obama has guts to send in National Guard if push comes to shove.
Seems they are trying to go Jim Crow on gays.
Yeah, it just seems like a very pathetic attempt, not least because, unlike blacks in the 1960s, there are many powerful gays out there. Plus it's as if they never learn.
And also, unlike blacks in the 60s, gays really are a cancer on society that needs to be eliminated.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 03:36:46 AM
Yeah, it just seems like a very pathetic attempt, not least because, unlike blacks in the 1960s, there are many powerful gays out there. Plus it's as if they never learn.
It is not a question of learning. The Republicans only care when the locals make them care so they will make as much sound and fury as possible where applicable and cheer on the gays where applicable.
This is a party that points to every gay Republican with pride as proof to the Democrats they are inclusive, while at the very same time doing these things. The parties in the US are very big tents and are capable of doing loads of contradictory things and representing groups in direct opposition to each other. After all the Democrats were once both the party of the KKK and the Civil Rights movement at the same time.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 02:42:05 AM
It's just a slew of very reactionary, "bad faith" laws, like (just examples):
- a Florida law being proposed imposing prison sentence on transgendered people using a "wrong" bathroom;
- an Arkansas law which prohibits town/city councils from adopting anti-discrimination ordinances;
- a Texas law which prohibits (under prison sentence) state officials from issuing gay marriage licenses, in the event gay marriage is declared legal by courts;
- a chief justice of Alabama instructing local judges to ignore the ruling of the federal appeal court which struck down Alabama gay marriage ban as unconstitutional.
I wonder if Obama has guts to send in National Guard if push comes to shove.
I think you fail to understand how many really stupid laws are "proposed" by someone in pretty much every country pretty much every day. Talk to a lawyer in your own country; lawyers generally love to collect stories about stupid law proposals. "Proposed" is a meaningless standard for a law.
Now, the Alabama Supreme Court justice thing is highly amusing, as it shows just how asinine Alabama is for allowing judges to be elected. This is an electioneering stunt by Moore (remember when he refused to remove the Ten Commandments from his courtroom? Also electioneering, and highly successful) who hopes to be elected President of the US some day.
Yes, we really are bad losers on all things.
Don't forget nasty.
"My name ain't baby, it's Janet. Miss Jackson if you're a Republican."
Damn. Yeah, nasty as well. Norm Charlton, Rob Dibble and Randy Myers are our leaders.
Pretty hard to win elections if you can't get any votes outside the Cincinnati metro area. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 10, 2015, 09:38:51 AM
Pretty hard to win elections if you can't get any votes outside the Cincinnati metro area. :P
Except Mayor of Cincinnati.
Quote from: Valmy on February 10, 2015, 09:39:41 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 10, 2015, 09:38:51 AM
Pretty hard to win elections if you can't get any votes outside the Cincinnati metro area. :P
Except Mayor of Cincinnati.
Let's leave Jerry Springer out of this.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 02:53:41 AM
QuoteAlabama chief justice threatens to sue judges who issue gay marriage licences
Despite that legally, same-sex couples should be able to marry from Monday in Alabama, the state's chief justice has instructed judges not to issue marriage licences to gay and lesbian couples.
Same-sex weddings are set to begin today in some parts of Alabama – though some probate judges are refusing to comply.
District court Judge Callie VS Granade ruled last month that the state's 'Sanctity of Marriage Amendment' – which defined marriage as between a man and a woman – was unconstitutional.
The chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court previously encouraged judges to flout the ruling.
Justice Roy Moore said in an order that judges in the state are not required to obey the ruling.
"Effective immediately," Moore wrote, "no Probate Judge of the State of Alabama nor any agent or employee of any Alabama Probate Judge shall issue or recognize a marriage license that is inconsistent" Alabama laws banning same-sex marriage.
Moore's order addressed 68 probate judges, who among other duties, issue marriage licences.
He went on to suggest that any judge issuing marriage licences could face legal action from the state's Governor.
If marriages are allowed to begin, Alabama will become the 37th state to recognise equal marriage.
So, how is this even legal?
Google Judge Roy Moore, and check out his history.
The quick answer to your question is it isn't legal, and will quickly be overturned. It will get Judge Moore plenty of publicity however.
My knowledge about these things is taken from TES, who is a practicing US lawyer. So I would value his knowledge of US law to that of grumbler or in fact pretty much everyone on this board except for Joan and AmScip.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 11:48:52 AM
My knowledge about these things is taken from TES, who is a practicing US lawyer. So I would value his knowledge of US law to that of grumbler or in fact pretty much everyone on this board except for Joan and AmScip.
Why does James not come and explain himself? :(
I guess both he and Ank swore us off.
James whines about anything if it even has a hint of the GOP.
So Marti, to answer your question... when it comes to gay rights, it does appear that certain elements of the GOP are on the wrong side of history, at least for the medium term. I think that while at one point they were quite right to take a stand they thought right, but at this point the issue is pretty much over and these last gasp attempts to fight gay rights and marriage make the party look pathetic.
But it's a big party. And gay rights are only one of many issues. I think it is a mistake to say that just because a party is wrong on one issue, they are wrong on all issues. From time to time I can find that the Liberal and NDP parties have some merit to their ideas, even if they are not parties I wish to see in government.
Quote from: derspiess on February 10, 2015, 09:33:58 AM
Damn. Yeah, nasty as well. Norm Charlton, Rob Dibble and Randy Myers are our leaders.
John Rocker.
Quote from: Barrister on February 10, 2015, 12:09:07 PM
So Marti, to answer your question... when it comes to gay rights, it does appear that certain elements of the GOP are on the wrong side of history, at least for the medium term. I think that while at one point they were quite right to take a stand they thought right, but at this point the issue is pretty much over and these last gasp attempts to fight gay rights and marriage make the party look pathetic.
But it's a big party. And gay rights are only one of many issues. I think it is a mistake to say that just because a party is wrong on one issue, they are wrong on all issues. From time to time I can find that the Liberal and NDP parties have some merit to their ideas, even if they are not parties I wish to see in government.
I am not saying GOP is wrong on all issues (although, to be honest I can't think of a single issue right now where they are right, while Democrats are wrong). The problem is that anti-gay vitriol coming from GOP these days is so strong - and so ridiculous in the face of shifting public opinion - I can't see any self-respecting gay person or any self-respecting person who cares for someone gay (as a friend, family etc.) voting for them.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 10, 2015, 12:17:35 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 10, 2015, 09:33:58 AM
Damn. Yeah, nasty as well. Norm Charlton, Rob Dibble and Randy Myers are our leaders.
John Rocker.
He wasn't one of the Nasty Boys, but I suppose we can give him honorable mention.
Quote from: Barrister on February 10, 2015, 12:09:07 PM
From time to time I can find that the Liberal and NDP parties have some merit to their ideas,
Burn the heretic.
Kill the mutant.
Purge the unclean. It is better to die for Harper than to live for yourself!
In fact, you could say that on those issues that this administration was initially wrong (mainly foreign policy issues, such as "reset with Russia", withdrawal from Europe, naive policy towards Middle East/Muslim countries), Obama has done quite an impressive U-turn over the last 3-4 years, aligning himself closer with the Republican stances. On everything else (taxes, healthcare, reproductive rights, gay rights, immigration, climate change, regulation) Democrats have been consistently right and Republicans have been consistently wrong.
Gays are only 1.5% of the population.
Quote from: Siege on February 10, 2015, 01:26:26 PM
Gays are only 1.5% of the population.
Closer to 6-7%. And they have families and friends. I tell my parents how to vote.
Quote from: Siege on February 10, 2015, 01:26:26 PM
Gays are only 1.5% of the population.
In related news, Siegy experiments with his gayness when his blood alcohol level reaches .15.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 01:33:29 PM
Closer to 6-7%. And they have families and friends. I tell my parents how to vote.
Do you at least buy them new shoes at election time?
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 01:33:29 PM
Quote from: Siege on February 10, 2015, 01:26:26 PM
Gays are only 1.5% of the population.
Closer to 6-7%. And they have families and friends. I tell my parents how to vote.
Wrong. Show me the source of your data.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 01:18:04 PM
(mainly foreign policy issues, such as "reset with Russia"
American Presidents have this pathological belief that Russia can be trusted and worked with going back to Roosevelt and Stalin.
I think it's more like Russia is an enemy we're really prefer not to have. It does seem FDR really liked Stalin for some strange reason though.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 01:18:04 PM
In fact, you could say that on those issues that this administration was initially wrong (mainly foreign policy issues, such as "reset with Russia", withdrawal from Europe, naive policy towards Middle East/Muslim countries), Obama has done quite an impressive U-turn over the last 3-4 years, aligning himself closer with the Republican stances. On everything else (taxes, healthcare, reproductive rights, gay rights, immigration, climate change, regulation) Democrats have been consistently right and Republicans have been consistently wrong.
:hmm:
Of course, Obama was against gay marriage. When Obama first debuted all he gave gays was a rainbow colored Obama symbol.
*Notwithstanding Axelrod's true confession that Obama was really just bullshitting when he was against gay marriage.
Quote from: garbon on February 10, 2015, 02:00:48 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 01:18:04 PM
In fact, you could say that on those issues that this administration was initially wrong (mainly foreign policy issues, such as "reset with Russia", withdrawal from Europe, naive policy towards Middle East/Muslim countries), Obama has done quite an impressive U-turn over the last 3-4 years, aligning himself closer with the Republican stances. On everything else (taxes, healthcare, reproductive rights, gay rights, immigration, climate change, regulation) Democrats have been consistently right and Republicans have been consistently wrong.
:hmm:
Of course, Obama was against gay marriage. When Obama first debuted all he gave gays was a rainbow colored Obama symbol.
*Notwithstanding Axelrod's true confession that Obama was really just bullshitting when he was against gay marriage.
But that's my point, really. Democrats may have been wrong on some issues, but it has never been the case where Democrats were wrong and Republicans right.
In your opinion.
Well, in the 3 issues that are important to me the democrats have always been wrong and the constitutional conservative wing of the republicans have always been right:
1- Liberty/freedom
2- Free market economy
3- small gubmint
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 02:01:52 PM
but it has never been the case where Democrats were wrong and Republicans right.
Heh.
Maybe you should aknowledge that the americani parties have diferent wings with sometimes contradictory views on policy.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 10, 2015, 01:40:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 01:33:29 PM
Closer to 6-7%. And they have families and friends. I tell my parents how to vote.
Do you at least buy them new shoes at election time?
:lol:
For anyone keeping score, she took it easy on me last November and picked out a relatively inexpensive pair of J. Crew wedge shoes.
Quote from: Siege on February 10, 2015, 02:32:53 PM
Well, in the 3 issues that are important to me the democrats have always been wrong and the constitutional conservative wing of the republicans have always been right:
1- Liberty/freedom -except for things they don't like, like respect for beliefs of anyone who's not a Christian
2- Free market economy -because if it's not an illegal business practice, it's just maximizing profits
3- small gubmint -because hiring private-sector cronies to do the same job just puts more money in everyone's pocket
FTFY.
Quote from: Siege on February 10, 2015, 01:26:26 PM
Gays are only 1.5% of the population.
Even if this were true, you're more likely to meet a gay person than a current member of the military. Their percentage is down to less than 1%. Since there's so few of them, maybe they should be discriminated against? What do you think?
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 11:48:52 AM
My knowledge about these things is taken from TES, who is a practicing US lawyer. So I would value his knowledge of US law to that of grumbler or in fact pretty much everyone on this board except for Joan and AmScip.
:glare:
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 10, 2015, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 11:48:52 AM
My knowledge about these things is taken from TES, who is a practicing US lawyer. So I would value his knowledge of US law to that of grumbler or in fact pretty much everyone on this board except for Joan and AmScip.
:glare:
I keep confusing you with Sheilbh. :hug:
I like that Alabama's first legally married gay couples are black lesbians. History is one ironic bitch. :D
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3-ec.buzzfed.com%2Fstatic%2F2015-02%2F9%2F15%2Fenhanced%2Fwebdr05%2Fenhanced-buzz-wide-24619-1423513203-7.jpg&hash=c6ed3689fce1a04a5ff693993282fb1cad41d187)
I don't get the irony. Alabama was always fine with black people marrying each other.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 04:01:02 PM
I like that Alabama's first legally married gay couples are black lesbians. History is one ironic bitch. :D
Yeah, but they can still be murdered with a good chance of never receiving justice, so there's still that catch.
Quote from: Caliga on February 10, 2015, 01:57:26 PM
I think it's more like Russia is an enemy we're really prefer not to have. It does seem FDR really liked Stalin for some strange reason though.
Actually, US presidents have this nasty habit of considering Russians as Europeans, treating them accordingly and expecting the same result.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 10, 2015, 04:15:10 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 10, 2015, 01:57:26 PM
I think it's more like Russia is an enemy we're really prefer not to have. It does seem FDR really liked Stalin for some strange reason though.
Actually, US presidents have this nasty habit of considering Russians as Europeans, treating them accordingly and expecting the same result.
Yeah, it's as if Poles are always Cassandras telling the rest of the West that Russians are really animals.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 10, 2015, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 11:48:52 AM
My knowledge about these things is taken from TES, who is a practicing US lawyer. So I would value his knowledge of US law to that of grumbler or in fact pretty much everyone on this board except for Joan and AmScip.
:glare:
I keep confusing you with Sheilbh. :hug:
Is there a diff?
I think one of them is British.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 10, 2015, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: Siege on February 10, 2015, 01:26:26 PM
Gays are only 1.5% of the population.
Even if this were true, you're more likely to meet a gay person than a current member of the military. Their percentage is down to less than 1%. Since there's so few of them, maybe they should be discriminated against? What do you think?
This happesns all the time.
I could not go to Walmart in uniform back in WA without getting dirty (but scared) looks from the usual suspects.
The worsts looks I ever got was back in DC during the 2009 Zerobama inauguration.
Who are these un-American usual suspects? :angry:
Quote from: Valmy on February 10, 2015, 04:34:14 PM
Who are these un-American usual suspects? :angry:
Liberal white people.
Quote from: Siege on February 10, 2015, 04:38:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 10, 2015, 04:34:14 PM
Who are these un-American usual suspects? :angry:
Liberal white people.
Glad the other liberal people are still alright.
Quote from: derspiess on February 10, 2015, 09:33:58 AM
Damn. Yeah, nasty as well. Norm Charlton, Rob Dibble and Randy Myers are our leaders.
Whoa, 90's reference.
Siegey, am I liberal? I love the Jews and Israel but I also love the gays.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 11:48:52 AM
My knowledge about these things is taken from TES, who is a practicing US lawyer. So I would value his knowledge of US law to that of grumbler or in fact pretty much everyone on this board except for Joan and AmScip.
Well, good for you. Congratulations on finally admitting that you are a sheep who just blindly follows something called a TES.
Quote from: Siege on February 10, 2015, 04:27:45 PM
The worsts looks I ever got was back in DC during the 2009 Zerobama inauguration.
Yeah, when the Assiege meets the Zerobama, bad looks are going to be exchanged.
Quote from: grumbler on February 10, 2015, 07:09:52 PM
something called a TES.
That's not a very nice way to refer to a former poster.
Quote from: garbon on February 10, 2015, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 10, 2015, 07:09:52 PM
something called a TES.
That's not a very nice way to refer to a former poster.
I have no idea what the TES referred to is. The Elder Scrolls? I don't remember a poster who called him/herself "TES," so couldn't have been calling a such a "former poster" anything insulting.
The Elegant Sophist.
Quote from: Caliga on February 10, 2015, 07:19:18 PM
The Elegant Sophist.
Ah. I never knew him to post by the name "TES." Is "he" the one who is "her" now?
It's a sign you're* winning Marti. Stop caring.
*LGB, not T. Still much work there.
Quote from: grumbler on February 10, 2015, 07:20:50 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 10, 2015, 07:19:18 PM
The Elegant Sophist.
Ah. I never knew him to post by the name "TES." Is "he" the one who is "her" now?
No that is Buddha Rhubarb. TES is all man baby.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 10, 2015, 07:21:56 PM
It's a sign you're* winning Marti. Stop caring.
*LGB, not T. Still much work there.
Oh dear. What do the T need? They can get married now.
What's with the scare quotes?
Quote from: garbon on February 10, 2015, 07:25:32 PM
What's with the scare quotes?
Yeah. What
is up with those things?
I often wonder how things went for Buddha. I hope it all worked out for her.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 10, 2015, 07:29:35 PM
I often wonder how things went for Buddha. I hope it all worked out for her.
Seems like she is doing pretty well. At least so far as I can tell on Facebook.
Quote from: Valmy on February 10, 2015, 07:30:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 10, 2015, 07:29:35 PM
I often wonder how things went for Buddha. I hope it all worked out for her.
Seems like she is doing pretty well. At least so far as I can tell on Facebook.
Ah good. :)
She seems to be doing ok. A bunch of us are friended with her on FB... she just started a new job.
Quote from: Siege on February 10, 2015, 02:32:53 PM
Well, in the 3 issues that are important to me the democrats have always been wrong and the constitutional conservative wing of the republicans have always been right:
1- Liberty/freedom
2- Free market economy
3- small gubmint
Hey, you never answered my question about freedoms you support. Are you for completly opening the border and allow free immigration to the US? What about Israel?
What Martinus is taking issue with isn't the Republican Party, but the American South, or at the very least its white subelement that wields the most significant power.
The South looking horrible in the eyes of the world due to its domestic practices and reactionary legislation is of course not a new phenomenon.
This particular one is one of the numerous issues I am a cross-purposes with the vast majority of the Southern public- I think civil unions are alright, and all else being equal, i'd support them. But given that is an issue in which the North is compelling its will and overriding the sovereignty of the besieged South, I'd be uncomfortable taking a position for or against the present state of affairs.
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 10, 2015, 02:00:48 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2015, 01:18:04 PM
In fact, you could say that on those issues that this administration was initially wrong (mainly foreign policy issues, such as "reset with Russia", withdrawal from Europe, naive policy towards Middle East/Muslim countries), Obama has done quite an impressive U-turn over the last 3-4 years, aligning himself closer with the Republican stances. On everything else (taxes, healthcare, reproductive rights, gay rights, immigration, climate change, regulation) Democrats have been consistently right and Republicans have been consistently wrong.
:hmm:
Of course, Obama was against gay marriage. When Obama first debuted all he gave gays was a rainbow colored Obama symbol.
*Notwithstanding Axelrod's true confession that Obama was really just bullshitting when he was against gay marriage.
But that's my point, really. Democrats may have been wrong on some issues, but it has never been the case where Democrats were wrong and Republicans right.
Sure there have. For example (a relatively minor issue, I suppose), the 55 MPH speed limit.
And when it comes to immigration, I don't see how anyone knowledgeable about the issue can say that one party has been consistently wrong and the other consistently right, because neither party has had a consistent position.
Quote from: garbon on February 10, 2015, 07:25:32 PM
What's with the scare quotes?
OMG GRUMBLER IS A TRANSPHOBE BURN "HIM"
I'll probably get burned on that issue as well.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 10, 2015, 07:29:35 PM
I often wonder how things went for Buddha. I hope it all worked out for her.
I'll give you an update next time we meet up :)
Quote from: Valmy on February 10, 2015, 07:30:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 10, 2015, 07:29:35 PM
I often wonder how things went for Buddha. I hope it all worked out for her.
Seems like she is doing pretty well. At least so far as I can tell on Facebook.
We are no longer friends on Facebook. :(
Probably your, er, charming personality.
Well, I took an exception to her posting memes and articles about "fat acceptance". Especially the one with the slogan "Don't Let Your Mind Bully Your Body". I thought that ship has sailed.
Fat people are gross.
Marty wishes to bully people into proper behavior.
I just thought that if your mind has already told your body that it should lose a dick, then railing at it for also telling your body it should lose a few pounds is a tad ironic.
:lol:
That is a salient point.
Quote from: Lettow77 on February 10, 2015, 08:31:55 PM
overriding the sovereignty of the besieged South
Compass points lack sovereignty.