Apparently Alberto Nisman had drafted a warrant of arrest for both Kirchner and her foreign minister Timerman, accusing them of trying to shield Iranian officials from the bombing of the Jewish centre in 1994.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/world/americas/argentina-prosecutor-alberto-nisman-arrest-warrant-cristina-de-kirchner.html?
Oh wow. If true this will be a mess.
It certainly seems very plausible that he was murdered for his investigation.
As for "if it's true", it's apparently been confirmed:
QuoteViviana Fein, the prosecutor investigating Mr. Nisman's death, confirmed on Tuesday morning that Mr. Nisman had prepared the draft of the warrant requesting the president's arrest. Confusion about the document emerged when Ms. Fein at first denied its existence, after the newspaper Clarín published an article on Sunday about the draft.
Seems like a good time to take a vacation:
QuoteMs. Fein said Tuesday that she would be taking a vacation from Feb. 18 to March 5.
They would have to be really dumb to assassinate a prosecutor.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2015, 06:13:52 PM
They would have to be really dumb to assassinate a prosecutor.
That's what Kirchner says. She says it's a conspiracy to tarnish her government.
Quote from: Jacob on February 03, 2015, 06:16:10 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2015, 06:13:52 PM
They would have to be really dumb to assassinate a prosecutor.
That's what Kirchner says. She says it's a conspiracy to tarnish her government.
Someone killed a prosecutor to make it look like she had the prosecutor killed because he was bringing a case against her? Seems to me anyone wanting to tarnish her government would be more motivated to keep the prosecutor alive.
Well yes, it does seem that way.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2015, 06:13:52 PM
They would have to be really dumb to assassinate a prosecutor.
And do we really have reason to believe the people running argentina are dumb?
Quote from: alfred russel on February 03, 2015, 06:24:57 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2015, 06:13:52 PM
They would have to be really dumb to assassinate a prosecutor.
And do we really have reason to believe the people running argentina are dumb?
Well, their economy collapsed back in 2000, they picked a fight with Britain in the 1980's and they elected Kirchner. I do suppose it's possible that the Iranians killed this guy. Killing Argentine Jews is what started this whole thing to begin with.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2015, 06:13:52 PM
They would have to be really dumb to assassinate a prosecutor.
Why, the cartels do it all the time.
Wow.
My personal bet is that this is some sort of a "Will Noone Rid Me of This Turbulent Priest" case. I.e. Kirchner was not personally involved but someone from her circles thought it would be a good idea/was implicated in the dead prosecutor's investigation.
Quote from: Jacob on February 03, 2015, 06:16:10 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2015, 06:13:52 PM
They would have to be really dumb to assassinate a prosecutor.
That's what Kirchner says. She says it's a conspiracy to tarnish her government.
Not much left to tarnish in that government.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 03, 2015, 11:38:24 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2015, 06:13:52 PM
They would have to be really dumb to assassinate a prosecutor.
Why, the cartels do it all the time.
And typically exist in a state of war with the government. When Dutch Schultz wanted to assassinate Tom Dewey the mafia assassinated Dutch Schultz. Dewey eventually ended up putting Charlie Luciano in jail.
Monty Python's wackiest sketch couldn't approach the inanity that is Peronism. These are the same people whose immigration policy priorities were: (1) attract Jewish refugees, (2) attract ex-Naxis on the run. No theory is too insane to be plausible, which is probably what Kirchner is counting on. And her detractors too.
What I can't get my mind around is how inept the old hag is at spinning this thing. You tacitly deny any involvement and then stonewall by saying you want the investigation to run its course without your interference.
My mother in law is so fed up with things she wants to move up here. GODDAMN YOU CRISTINA
Quote from: derspiess on February 04, 2015, 09:41:12 AM
What I can't get my mind around is how inept the old hag is at spinning this thing. You tacitly deny any involvement and then stonewall by saying you want the investigation to run its course without your interference.
My mother in law is so fed up with things she wants to move up here. GODDAMN YOU CRISTINA
You are gonna have a pack of beaners all up in your shit.
Having a free babysitter on demand would be nice. Having someone arbitrarily move my furniture around and 'organize' my stuff, not so much.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2015, 01:35:33 AM
Quote from: Jacob on February 03, 2015, 06:16:10 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2015, 06:13:52 PM
They would have to be really dumb to assassinate a prosecutor.
That's what Kirchner says. She says it's a conspiracy to tarnish her government.
Not much left to tarnish in that government.
You'd be surprised:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-04/argentine-president-s-tweet-mimics-chinese-during-official-visit
Quote(Bloomberg) -- Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner mimicked the Chinese accent in a tweet, replacing r's with l's, as she met with Chinese President Xi Jinping during a visit to raise investment in the recession-hit South American economy.
"Did they only come for lice and petloleum," Fernandez wrote in Spanish on her Twitter account. A minute later, she wrote "sorry, the levels of ridiculousness and absurdity are so high they can only be digested with humor."
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.gotraffic.net%2Fimages%2FiZAbPvxePL8M%2Fv2%2F1200x-1.png&hash=819d40968cc7fbcc04e1ff7a7e2a97b38541d4ed)
I hope she enjoys those ratty old Su-24's the Russians are gonna trade for beef.
Quote from: Jacob on February 03, 2015, 05:42:37 PM
Apparently Alberto Nisman had drafted a warrant of arrest for both Kirchner and her foreign minister Timerman, accusing them of trying to shield Iranian officials from the bombing of the Jewish centre in 1994.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/world/americas/argentina-prosecutor-alberto-nisman-arrest-warrant-cristina-de-kirchner.html?
You lazy fuck, copy and paste the article here in languish like everybody else does.
Jacob and Viper are always doing the same shit.
I aint going to click in that link!!!
Siege is afraid to click on a NYT link; he could get infected by facts.
Quote from: derspiess on February 04, 2015, 09:41:12 AM
What I can't get my mind around is how inept the old hag is at spinning this thing. You tacitly deny any involvement and then stonewall by saying you want the investigation to run its course without your interference.
My mother in law is so fed up with things she wants to move up here. GODDAMN YOU CRISTINA
Since you are the closest thing we got to an argentinian here in Languish, I must ask you this question:
Why the fuck are argentinians so fucking communists?
I mean, no disrespect, but I have never come across an argentinian that is into personal and social freedoms, free market economy, and small goverment.
The all claim that those little "neo-liberal reforms" they did, which of course were designed to fail, are proof free market economy does not work. They all want Big Brother to feed them and roof them, with no effort from their part.
Blame Perón.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2015, 11:05:37 AM
Siege is afraid to click on a NYT link; he could get infected by facts.
:lol: Dude, the NYT is infamous for getting facts wrong.
Quote from: Siege on February 04, 2015, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2015, 11:05:37 AM
Siege is afraid to click on a NYT link; he could get infected by facts.
:lol: Dude, the NYT is infamous for getting facts wrong.
Can't argue with the expert . . .
Quote from: Siege on February 04, 2015, 11:09:00 AM
I mean, no disrespect, but I have never come across an argentinian that is into personal and social freedoms, free market economy, and small goverment.
The all claim that those little "neo-liberal reforms" they did, which of course were designed to fail, are proof free market economy does not work. They all want Big Brother to feed them and roof them, with no effort from their part.
Because of the culture of corruption amongst the elites. The people just want in on the action.
There are very few countries in the world where personal and social freedoms, free market economy, and small government really are a thing.
Quote from: Valmy on February 04, 2015, 04:37:11 PM
Because of the culture of corruption amongst the elites. The people just want in on the action.
I don't think Argentina ranks particularly high on corruption ratings. It seems as a general rule you either need large scale resource extraction (such as in Nigeria) or a stifling bureaucracy (such as in India) to breed world-class corruption.
I think the explanation lies instead with the immigration to Argentina of a politicized urban working class at a time when Argentina was a wealthy country, and could afford, at least for a short time, to buy their support with wealth transfers from the very productive agricultural sector.
Quote from: Siege on February 04, 2015, 11:09:00 AM
Since you are the closest thing we got to an argentinian here in Languish, I must ask you this question:
Why the fuck are argentinians so fucking communists?
I mean, no disrespect, but I have never come across an argentinian that is into personal and social freedoms, free market economy, and small goverment.
Where have you run into these Argentines? With maybe a couple exceptions, all the ones I know are into all of that. Particularly those who have come to the US, all of which are college educated and have high-paying jobs.
My wife's family and their friends are all middle to upper class, and with the exception of my wife's best friend from college none of them vote Peronist.
QuoteThe all claim that those little "neo-liberal reforms" they did, which of course were designed to fail, are proof free market economy does not work. They all want Big Brother to feed them and roof them, with no effort from their part.
That sounds like the lower class (and nouveau-riche) left-Peronist type, which I don't have any direct experience with. Sadly, they have been winning elections in the past decade. Leftist populism has certainly wrought its fair share of havoc on the economy, and everyone I know seems to recognize that.
Argentine politcs is a mess. Your two main choices traditionally have been the Radicals (Social Democrats) and Peronists (Populism cranked up to 11). There is a relatively small center-right party I support called PRO (Propuesta Republicana) which has scored some good local electoral wins but needs some help succeeding in national elections.
With the Peronists shifting decisively to the left in the past decade, some of the right-wing Peronists have splintered off into their own de facto party. My hope is that somehow in this year's election those dissidents can form some sort of alliance/front with PRO and kick the left-Peronists out of power. Even a win by the non-Peronist left bloc would be a positive.
I looked up Argentina in the Transparency International Index, and they came in 106th (Mexico was 103rd as a comparitor), so pretty corrupt.
I think the extraordinary hegemony of Peronism is a big part of it. Menem and the Kirchners are both Peronist.
Also I'm not convinced that liberalism, neo- or not, should expect any popularity in Latin America.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 04, 2015, 07:56:43 PM
I think the extraordinary hegemony of Peronism is a big part of it. Menem and the Kirchners are both Peronist.
Yep. Those two factions are growing so far apart though, the only thing they have in common is that they like to do their meetings & rallies in front of huge Evita murals. Would be a healthy thing for Argentine politics for them to formally split into separate parties.
QuoteAlso I'm not convinced that liberalism, neo- or not, should expect any popularity in Latin America.
It's a tough sell to the lower classes, particularly in this current wave of South American populism.
Maybe we could prepare a power point presentation comparing Liberal Venezuela to Bolivarian Venezuela :P
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2015, 10:23:42 AM
Maybe we could prepare a power point presentation comparing Liberal Venezuela to Bolivarian Venezuela :P
This is not a bad idea.
Stupid people need things explained at kindergarden level.
They'd only show up if we gave them free hats, t-shirts, and polenta.