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This is not about educated opinions, just what you think most likely.

I voted #5. 

Title misleading so I could reference Bowie. 

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhorrorhomework.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Fsleep1.jpg&hash=68ea59eeceb8accc433f36e7456921a1aa98c99a)

#2 and #8

It seems to me (and I may be full of crap), that having everything in the right place for life to get set up is pretty damned rare.  And even then, the odds of evolving into higher-order creatures like is is probably not too great either.

If there is even life, it's probably very few and far between, and not much more likely than us to be muddling through crappy levels of technological progress.

Voted #4.

As for the question you actually asked in the thread title, I would say that it is likely there are Archaea, and perhaps even bacteria living under the surface on Mars. I also think it likely that there is multicellular life living in the oceans of Europa.

The universe is pretty much infinite in size and there must be gazillions of Earth-like planets. As life developed on Earth pretty much at the earliest possible point of time and then quickly filled every ecological niche, it would be surprising if that that's not the case on those other gazillions of Earth-like planets. Sentient life has certainly formed elsewhere, but the question is if it is possible to bridge space and time. Space is obviously hard unless there is some way to travel faster than light that we have not yet found. Time is even harder as humanity has only been around for the tiniest fraction of the lifetime of the universe and for most of that time we were just dexterous apes, so to have another alien species nearby and able/willing to communicate etc. would be extremely coincidental.

There's a reasonable chance there is intelligent life out there, but too far to make contact before we go extinct or the sun goes supernova.

And they're probably not blue-skinned, elf-like hotties who want to mate with us.  :(

Nothing.  Just us.

The universe is absolutely gigantic, and it is likely that there is life somewhere.  Having said that, the distances invovled are too great, and I think it is doubtful that other lifeforms have developed the ability to reach us, if they are ever able to. 

As to the title question, I think there isn't life on Mars, but there might have been simple lifeforms there in the past.

If there is, it's a god-awful small affair.

Btw, I now always hear this song as if sung by Jessica Lange with a fake German accent. :(

Quote from: Martinus on November 23, 2014, 04:07:33 AM
If there is, it's a god-awful small affair.

Does that make you the girl with the mousy hair?  :hmm:

Finding life on Mars would probably the worst news Humanity has ever heard.

Voted #3.

Voted #3, there is a lot of universe for stuff to happen in.

#3, for the same reasons others have exposed; it seems impossible to me, given the universe's theoretically infinite size, that there's no other planets like ours out there, but for the same reason the distances are too great for contact being possible.

Bandwagoning on #3

L.

Life is fairly common, multi-cellular life less so, sapient life drastically less so, industrialised sapient life vanishingly so.
Aliens are either gods or cavemen. And since we've seen no signs of bizzare alien-made stellar phenomena the gods, if they exist, must be pretty far away.

We should send a Drake like character to explore this problem.

Quote from: mongers on November 23, 2014, 09:13:06 AM
We should send a Drake like character to explore this problem.

I fully support shooting him into space.   :)

You mean the Canadian rapper, right?  :unsure:

;)

#3 for the same reason as others.  There is life out there somewhere, but there will never be any contact.

Tonitron, that was one of my favor movies back in the 80's.

About alien life.
I subscribe to the "Universe is teaming with life" theory.
Given enough time, intelligent live will evolve in most environments within the goldilocks.
The more life-friendly the environment the fastest intelligent life will appear in it.

However, I do not think biological life will ever reach FTL technology without first going through the technological singularity and becoming non-biological life.

The theory goes, intelligent life will absolutely always manipulate their environment and become a technological civiliazation.
There is no intelligent life without technology, as in intelligent life will always improve their environment with technological developments as in agriculture, logging, building, and, the end state of technological development is always non-biological immortality (or rather undefined lifespan, since you can still die by war, accidents, self, etc.)

So, since space exploration FTL is an investment heavy-low returns enterprise, it will develop slowly than other techs like information technologies, medicine,  nanotech, etc. Therefore, singularity before FTL, which means any aliens coming here will be completely invisible to us. Another little theory is that a post human civilization, post singularity, will not be motivated to interact with pre-singularity civs since the singularity event will be part of their perception of life, and therefore they will understand that the illumination of the singularity is just a matter of time for all intelligent life, and meeting them pre-singularity will likely add to the chance of self-destruction.

Voted 1, but somewhere between 1 and 2. I'm with Professor Brian Cox who said the biological process which led to intelligent life on earth was a fluke that is unlikely to have been repeated anywhere else in the universe. With a twinkle, of course.

Quote from: Brazen on November 23, 2014, 11:49:24 AM
Voted 1, but somewhere between 1 and 2. I'm with Professor Brian Cox who said the biological process which led to intelligent life on earth was a fluke that is unlikely to have been repeated anywhere else in the universe. With a twinkle, of course.

Please. There is no observational record to support this position.
As far as we know, within our biosphere, life adapts to any environment, no matter how hot or how cold.
Therefore the goldilocks theory.

Quote from: Siege on November 23, 2014, 11:53:00 AM
Please. There is no observational record to support this position.
As far as we know, within our biosphere, life adapts to any environment, no matter how hot or how cold.
Therefore the goldilocks theory.

That refers to the habitable zone around a star, not the infinitesimal chance that atoms would have formed into simple proteins that self-replicate and eventually form single-celled organisms, and that two of those would have eventually found a way to co-survive and evolve into multicellular organisms.

Quote from: Brazen on November 23, 2014, 12:09:24 PM

Quote from: Siege on November 23, 2014, 11:53:00 AM
Please. There is no observational record to support this position.
As far as we know, within our biosphere, life adapts to any environment, no matter how hot or how cold.
Therefore the goldilocks theory.

That refers to the habitable zone around a star, not the infinitesimal chance that atoms would have formed into simple proteins that self-replicate and eventually form single-celled organisms, and that two of those would have eventually found a way to co-survive and evolve into multicellular organisms.

Haha, why do you assume it is an infinitesimal chance?
Besides, as the teaming universe theory goes, the key phrase is "given enough time".
Given enough time, life will happen, and intelligent life will follow.

About civilization, technology, and discovering fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fftF5lh58qE

Because space is the last frontier.

Lights - Ellie Goulding lyrics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaJ4wzDO5fA

Quote from: Tyr on November 23, 2014, 05:54:26 AM
Life is fairly common, multi-cellular life less so, sapient life drastically less so, industrialised sapient life vanishingly so.
Aliens are either gods or cavemen. And since we've seen no signs of bizzare alien-made stellar phenomena the gods, if they exist, must be pretty far away.

Dunno why that has to be the case.  Aliens out there could be muddling through an industrial society and dealing with unemployment, shareholder value and killing each other over abortion as well.

Quote from: Tonitrus on November 23, 2014, 03:22:18 PM

Quote from: Tyr on November 23, 2014, 05:54:26 AM
Life is fairly common, multi-cellular life less so, sapient life drastically less so, industrialised sapient life vanishingly so.
Aliens are either gods or cavemen. And since we've seen no signs of bizzare alien-made stellar phenomena the gods, if they exist, must be pretty far away.

Dunno why that has to be the case.  Aliens out there could be muddling through an industrial society and dealing with unemployment, shareholder value and killing each other over abortion as well.

Good point.
Given the age of the universe, chances are we are on the leading edge.
Meaning we are it.
We are the ancient astronauts for other civilizations.

We enjoy a perfect environment.

Question is, how do we know other drastically different environment are not ideal for other life-forms?

Can life forms exist without water?  That seems to be the big limiter.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2014, 03:44:52 PM
Can life forms exist without water?  That seems to be the big limiter.

Therefore the goldilocks theory.

Quote from: Tonitrus on November 23, 2014, 03:22:18 PM

Quote from: Tyr on November 23, 2014, 05:54:26 AM
Life is fairly common, multi-cellular life less so, sapient life drastically less so, industrialised sapient life vanishingly so.
Aliens are either gods or cavemen. And since we've seen no signs of bizzare alien-made stellar phenomena the gods, if they exist, must be pretty far away.

Dunno why that has to be the case.  Aliens out there could be muddling through an industrial society and dealing with unemployment, shareholder value and killing each other over abortion as well.

It's due to the time scale.  If there are sapient aliens out there they almost certainly evolved that way millions of years before we did.  Think of Earth's history as book with each page corresponding to a million years.  The book will be several million pages long.  At the 4-5 billion page mark is today.  Human beings make up maybe a page.  Behavioral modernity might be a paragraph.  Farming and metal work be a few words.  Industrial civilization half a letter.  I have no idea how long the current epoch of humanity will last.  We may evolve into something else, we might die out, we may modify ourselves to we wouldn't recognized.  All in all 10 pages forward humanity is likely to be radically different (if it even exists).  Now lets imagine we find a different planet that is like ours and life evolves roughly the same way. It is a different book. If we were to open that book to a random page it is extremely unlikely we open to a similar page corresponding to an industrial society.  Now even if the the opening the book is not completely random, say we always open toward the middle area of the book just a few pages (or a few sentences) difference from our book are going to have either presentient life or something that has been sentient much, much longer then us.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2014, 03:44:52 PM
Can life forms exist without water?  That seems to be the big limiter.

Other solvents are possible, but the fact that water is one of the most common molecules in the universe makes it a very good candidate.

Quote from: Razgovory on November 23, 2014, 03:57:07 PM
It's due to the time scale.  If there are sapient aliens out there they almost certainly evolved that way millions of years before we did.  Think of Earth's history as book with each page corresponding to a million years.  The book will be several million pages long.  At the 4-5 billion page mark is today.  Human beings make up maybe a page.  Behavioral modernity might be a paragraph.  Farming and metal work be a few words.  Industrial civilization half a letter.  I have no idea how long the current epoch of humanity will last.  We may evolve into something else, we might die out, we may modify ourselves to we wouldn't recognized.  All in all 10 pages forward humanity is likely to be radically different (if it even exists).  Now lets imagine we find a different planet that is like ours and life evolves roughly the same way. It is a different book. If we were to open that book to a random page it is extremely unlikely we open to a similar page corresponding to an industrial society.  Now even if the the opening the book is not completely random, say we always open toward the middle area of the book just a few pages (or a few sentences) difference from our book are going to have either presentient life or something that has been sentient much, much longer then us.

Problem with questions like this is that it takes a "snapshot" approach.  The percentages of possibility change when the question goes from "Is there sapient life out there?" to "Has there ever been sapient life out there? or "Will there ever be sapient life out there?"  The universe's timeline is a big one.

Quote from: Razgovory on November 23, 2014, 03:57:07 PM

Quote from: Tonitrus on November 23, 2014, 03:22:18 PM

Quote from: Tyr on November 23, 2014, 05:54:26 AM
Life is fairly common, multi-cellular life less so, sapient life drastically less so, industrialised sapient life vanishingly so.
Aliens are either gods or cavemen. And since we've seen no signs of bizzare alien-made stellar phenomena the gods, if they exist, must be pretty far away.

Dunno why that has to be the case.  Aliens out there could be muddling through an industrial society and dealing with unemployment, shareholder value and killing each other over abortion as well.

It's due to the time scale.  If there are sapient aliens out there they almost certainly evolved that way millions of years before we did.  Think of Earth's history as book with each page corresponding to a million years.  The book will be several million pages long.  At the 4-5 billion page mark is today.  Human beings make up maybe a page.  Behavioral modernity might be a paragraph.  Farming and metal work be a few words.  Industrial civilization half a letter.  I have no idea how long the current epoch of humanity will last.  We may evolve into something else, we might die out, we may modify ourselves to we wouldn't recognized.  All in all 10 pages forward humanity is likely to be radically different (if it even exists).  Now lets imagine we find a different planet that is like ours and life evolves roughly the same way. It is a different book. If we were to open that book to a random page it is extremely unlikely we open to a similar page corresponding to an industrial society.  Now even if the the opening the book is not completely random, say we always open toward the middle area of the book just a few pages (or a few sentences) difference from our book are going to have either presentient life or something that has been sentient much, much longer then us.

What the hell are you talking about?
Post-human civs develop tech at a multimillion speed of what we can do right now.
One of the predicaments of the technological singularity is that un-enhanced humans cannot follow tech development because of how fast it develops.

Quote from: Neil on November 23, 2014, 03:59:20 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2014, 03:44:52 PM
Can life forms exist without water?  That seems to be the big limiter.

Other solvents are possible, but the fact that water is one of the most common molecules in the universe makes it a very good candidate.

Our blood is red because of the iron content.  The horseshoe crab?  It's blue because of the copper content.  All sorts of nifty biological diversions are possible.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2014, 04:12:40 PM
Our blood is red because of the iron content.  The horseshoe crab?  It's blue because of the copper content.  All sorts of nifty biological diversions are possible.

Both still in a water solvent.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2014, 04:38:58 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2014, 04:12:40 PM
Our blood is red because of the iron content.  The horseshoe crab?  It's blue because of the copper content.  All sorts of nifty biological diversions are possible.

Both still in a water solvent.

I'm not arguing against the water point, for fuck's sake.  All sorts of nifty biological diversions are possible WITH WATER.  Fucking happy now? 

Fuck it, we're going to change the forum format to a Yes/No only response format, for all you OCD Rainman Assburgers with Cheese that can't tolerate anything that deviates from such a standardized format.  Fuck. 

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2014, 04:43:24 PM
Fuck it, we're going to change the forum format to a Yes/No only response format, for all you OCD Rainman Assburgers with Cheese that can't tolerate anything that deviates from such a standardized format.  Fuck.

No.

Jeez.  Take a blood pressure med and do some yoga.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2014, 04:46:37 PM
Jeez.  Take a blood pressure med and do some yoga.

No.

Come on, there is a wide merging for water based life.
We can safely say that 30% of all star systems have the potential for water based life-forms.
This is a massive number...

I don't see it.  Water assumes liquid form in a very tiny temperature range.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2014, 04:46:37 PM
Jeez.  Take a blood pressure med and do some yoga.

Don't you try your Asiatic tricks on us!

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2014, 05:33:17 PM
I don't see it.  Water assumes liquid form in a very tiny temperature range.

Yeah, it's not really much of a solvent if it's ice.  There has been speculation that you use something like Florine or ammonia or liquid methane to have life live in, but water seems to work best.  We do have places in the solar system where liquid methane is common, but there doesn't seem to be life in it.


I find it rather absurd that Tim thinks it likely there is life in the solar system.

The big test will be if we're ever able to determine what is under the ice on Europa.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2014, 04:12:40 PM

Quote from: Neil on November 23, 2014, 03:59:20 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2014, 03:44:52 PM
Can life forms exist without water?  That seems to be the big limiter.

Other solvents are possible, but the fact that water is one of the most common molecules in the universe makes it a very good candidate.

Our blood is red because of the iron content.  The horseshoe crab?  It's blue because of the copper content.  All sorts of nifty biological diversions are possible.

Indeed.  And Mr. Spock's blood was green because of the copper.

It would have been interesting to be able to go back into those Vendian seas and see what kinds of blood chemistries existed in animals.

Quote from: Tonitrus on November 23, 2014, 07:28:33 PM
The big test will be if we're ever able to determine what is under the ice on Europa.

Honestly it's a long shot.  I hope we don't find shit.

Quote from: Razgovory on November 23, 2014, 09:03:13 PMHonestly it's a long shot.  I hope we don't find shit.

Why do you hope that?

Raz fears all aquatic life.

Actually, I expect to find some form of life in any planet in the Sonar system.

I voted number 13:

I am 48 years old and I don't give a fuck.

Quote from: Jacob on November 23, 2014, 09:12:02 PM

Quote from: Razgovory on November 23, 2014, 09:03:13 PMHonestly it's a long shot.  I hope we don't find shit.

Why do you hope that?

Great filter.  Despite it's age and size the galaxy is not buzzing with spaceships.  There is a step between lifeless planet to interstellar empire that is really hard or rare.  It may not even be possible.  We don't know what that step is.  We have covered all the steps between lifeless rock to semi-intelligent beings using the internet to bicker.  If the step is in our past it means we have overcome this bottle neck already and should be in the clear.  If the step is in our future, well then we are pretty screwed.  The appearance of life is one such step.  If life is common and has independently arisen in other places in the solar system then obviously life is not the really hard step and the chances the hard step is in our future has risen.  If we find nothing then the possibly that appearance (I want to say evolution of life but don't think that's correct) of life is perhaps the bottleneck which increases our chance of interstellar travel.

I anticipate soon this world will be covered with the red glow of an Ur-Quan slave shield.

I would like to think it would be WH40K Orks.  They seem like a colorful bunch.

Quote from: Razgovory on November 25, 2014, 10:37:46 PM

Quote from: Jacob on November 23, 2014, 09:12:02 PM

Quote from: Razgovory on November 23, 2014, 09:03:13 PMHonestly it's a long shot.  I hope we don't find shit.

Why do you hope that?

Great filter.  Despite it's age and size the galaxy is not buzzing with spaceships.  There is a step between lifeless planet to interstellar empire that is really hard or rare.  It may not even be possible. 

Dude, you are just dense. We talked about this before.
You are asking the Fermi paradox again.

It goes like this:

1- Information Technologies (IT) develop exponentially faster than space exploration tech, because of the far higher return per investment due to the practical applications of IT.

2- Because of this, the Technological Singularity is reached before FTL.

3- A post-singularity civ, in which humans have increasily merged with their technology, there is no socio-economical preasure to expand across space. Space exploration for such a civ is about scientific discovery, not colony building, trade, or resource collection, since a post-human/post-singularity civ with nanoconstruction/printing, atomic recycling,  and molecular manipulation have all the resources they can possibly need in their own star system.

4- Having the ability to build FTL starships in the nanoscale, with strong AIs or mixed BioAIs, the starships of such a civ would be invisible to our eyes and to any detection method we currently possess.

5- Given enough time, every intelligent life will either reach the Technological Singularity or self-destruct before reaching that stage of development. But in either case, Information Technologies will develop into the Singularity before space exploration can develop into FTL.

6- Because of 4 and 5, aliens have either passed through here already, invisible in their nanoscale construction level, or they have never been here. Undetectable in both cases, therefore Fermi's Paradox cannot be answered.

I remember reading about this. An interstellar invasion armada got eaten by a little dog.

Quote from: The Brain on November 26, 2014, 11:39:59 AM
I remember reading about this. An interstellar invasion armada got eaten by a little dog.

Post singularity civs have no reason to invade anybody.

Quote from: Siege on November 26, 2014, 11:45:08 AM

Quote from: The Brain on November 26, 2014, 11:39:59 AM
I remember reading about this. An interstellar invasion armada got eaten by a little dog.

Post singularity civs have no reason to invade anybody.

Maybe they don't like Mondays.

QuoteSpace-faring sapient life has attempted to contact us, we're stupid

Voted this, as I can find no other explanation for the Teletubbies.

What the fuck. Did Siegy's high capacity data processing circuits just activate? That was extremely cogent and clever. And very out of character.  :huh:

Quote from: Martinus on December 02, 2014, 06:30:25 AM
What the fuck. Did Siegy's high capacity data processing circuits just activate? That was extremely cogent and clever. And very out of character.  :huh:

He forgets to employ his schtick every now and then, when he gets excited about his hobby horse.  If you look, you will see that even some of his "stupid" posts contain some "accidental" wisdom.

I got not schtick.
Why are you always accussing me of having one?

Why are you always vacillating between teen pop and death metal- with nothing in between?

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 02, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Why are you always vacillating between teen pop and death metal- with nothing in between?

That's unfair. I have very wide cultural horizons.
I also like anime, vampire TV shows, superhero movies, and that vilonist girl with red hair that dances while playing.

Anti-vacillation nuts. :x

Quote from: Siege on December 02, 2014, 03:44:03 PM

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 02, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Why are you always vacillating between teen pop and death metal- with nothing in between?

That's unfair. I have very wide cultural horizons.
I also like anime, vampire TV shows, superhero movies, and that vilonist girl with red hair that dances while playing.

I was just talking about music.

Quote from: Siege on December 02, 2014, 03:44:03 PM

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 02, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Why are you always vacillating between teen pop and death metal- with nothing in between?

That's unfair. I have very wide cultural horizons.
I also like anime, vampire TV shows, superhero movies, and that vilonist girl with red hair that dances while playing.

I liked True Blood, Iron Man, Avengers, Thor and Guardians of the Galaxy. :(

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 02, 2014, 03:50:53 PM

Quote from: Siege on December 02, 2014, 03:44:03 PM

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 02, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Why are you always vacillating between teen pop and death metal- with nothing in between?

That's unfair. I have very wide cultural horizons.
I also like anime, vampire TV shows, superhero movies, and that vilonist girl with red hair that dances while playing.

I was just talking about music.

Well, I like some music that is not Death Metal, like Iron Maiden, Avenged Sevendfold, From Autum to Ashes, BoySetsFire, 3oh!3, Linkin Park, Hollywood Undead, Rammstein, Story of the Year, System of a Down, Bullets for my Valentine, Lacuna Coil, Halestorm, Evenascense, The Pretty Reckless (Taylor Momsen rocks!), Flyleaf, and that British band that plays "My name is not Stacy".

Quote from: Martinus on December 02, 2014, 03:52:39 PM

Quote from: Siege on December 02, 2014, 03:44:03 PM

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 02, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Why are you always vacillating between teen pop and death metal- with nothing in between?

That's unfair. I have very wide cultural horizons.
I also like anime, vampire TV shows, superhero movies, and that vilonist girl with red hair that dances while playing.

I liked True Blood, Iron Man, Avengers, Thor and Guardians of the Galaxy. :(

Gardians of the galaxy sucks balls. That chick from Avatar in green custom did not work for me at all. Thor 2 was kind of weak, when compared to Captain America 2, and True Blood sucks vs Vampire Diaries, though it still works for me.

What did you think of Agents of Hydra, er, Shield.

Despite his macho Master Chief, war criminal, Masada--zealot-complex exterior, deep inside Siegy is a tweenybopper Disney Channel sitcom trying to get out.  With the same tolerance for alcohol.

He's always 3 Coors Lights away from a page full of drunk posts.

Quote from: Siege on December 02, 2014, 04:33:36 PM
Gardians of the galaxy sucks balls.

Duuuuuude.  :(

Quote from: Siege on December 02, 2014, 04:33:36 PM

Quote from: Martinus on December 02, 2014, 03:52:39 PM

Quote from: Siege on December 02, 2014, 03:44:03 PM

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 02, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Why are you always vacillating between teen pop and death metal- with nothing in between?

That's unfair. I have very wide cultural horizons.
I also like anime, vampire TV shows, superhero movies, and that vilonist girl with red hair that dances while playing.

I liked True Blood, Iron Man, Avengers, Thor and Guardians of the Galaxy. :(

Gardians of the galaxy sucks balls. That chick from Avatar in green custom did not work for me at all. Thor 2 was kind of weak, when compared to Captain America 2, and True Blood sucks vs Vampire Diaries, though it still works for me.

What did you think of Agents of Hydra, er, Shield.

:ike:

Quote from: Siege on November 26, 2014, 11:35:53 AM


Dude, you are just dense. We talked about this before.
You are asking the Fermi paradox again.

It goes like this:

1- Information Technologies (IT) develop exponentially faster than space exploration tech, because of the far higher return per investment due to the practical applications of IT.

2- Because of this, the Technological Singularity is reached before FTL.

3- A post-singularity civ, in which humans have increasily merged with their technology, there is no socio-economical preasure to expand across space. Space exploration for such a civ is about scientific discovery, not colony building, trade, or resource collection, since a post-human/post-singularity civ with nanoconstruction/printing, atomic recycling,  and molecular manipulation have all the resources they can possibly need in their own star system.

4- Having the ability to build FTL starships in the nanoscale, with strong AIs or mixed BioAIs, the starships of such a civ would be invisible to our eyes and to any detection method we currently possess.

5- Given enough time, every intelligent life will either reach the Technological Singularity or self-destruct before reaching that stage of development. But in either case, Information Technologies will develop into the Singularity before space exploration can develop into FTL.

6- Because of 4 and 5, aliens have either passed through here already, invisible in their nanoscale construction level, or they have never been here. Undetectable in both cases, therefore Fermi's Paradox cannot be answered.

A technology singularity (if such a thing is possible) doesn't necessarily mean a post scarcity civilization.  The increase in technological power may result in the need to for resources with such advanced technology they may require the dismantling of entire planets for material or to catch more and more sunlight as power.  We see no examples of these megascale structures in the universe.

Quote from: Razgovory on December 02, 2014, 05:24:23 PM
We see no examples of these megascale structures in the universe.

That means nothing.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 02, 2014, 05:29:28 PM

Quote from: Razgovory on December 02, 2014, 05:24:23 PM
We see no examples of these megascale structures in the universe.

That means nothing.

It means we don't see them.

Quote from: Martinus on December 02, 2014, 06:30:25 AM
What the fuck. Did Siegy's high capacity data processing circuits just activate? That was extremely cogent and clever. And very out of character.  :huh:

I am pretty sure that is when he copy/pasted something from somewhere.

Probably off the label of a Zima.