So, two things.
One, this is a thread inspired personally by my recent musings - namely that if there is one thing missing in my life (and I feel it more and more keenly) is "something greater". I am not just talking of religion or spirituality (although I suppose for many people the sensation of being connected to something greater, coupled with a communal aspect of it, performs exactly that role). It could be anything you do that does not benefit you and your immediate family personally - it could be charity, volunteering, activism. It could even be a hobby. I called it a "Great Work" as I could not find a better term. I suppose if you must, please say "raising children" but I am looking for something that benefits the community (or at least has a communal aspect) more than your immediate tribe.
Two, I am not looking for advice per se - as I already have a few ideas - I am more curious whether many of other Languishites recognise such a need in their lives and if so, what fulfils it.
Raising my children.
I'd suggest starting by working on your sense of empathy and branching out from there.
Sometimes I look at my country and think that being a functional adult is a great work per se.
You can substitute "this board" to "my country", it works the same.
L.
Promoting yukkuri and the consumption of culture, the genesis & preservation of the South which will come into its kingdom in space.
Raising my children benefits the community and the species.
Seriously though Marty, I don't quite know how to respond to your thread.
Absolutely I feel the need and desire to be part of "something greater", to live not just selfishly for myself, but for the wider world and community.
But right there in your original post you recognize what the two most popular answers are going to be "religion" and "family", and then go out of your way to say you aren't interested in those, or that they don't count.
I'm not saying you have to go out and start attending Church, marry a nice woman and start pumping out children. Everyone has to find their own path and calling. But you don't get to ask a deeply personal and philosophic question, and then go out of your way to reject the answers you don't like right off the bat.
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 11:03:07 AM
Seriously though Marty, I don't quite know how to respond to your thread.
Absolutely I feel the need and desire to be part of "something greater", to live not just selfishly for myself, but for the wider world and community.
But right there in your original post you recognize what the two most popular answers are going to be "religion" and "family", and then go out of your way to say you aren't interested in those, or that they don't count.
I'm not saying you have to go out and start attending Church, marry a nice woman and start pumping out children. Everyone has to find their own path and calling. But you don't get to ask a deeply personal and philosophic question, and then go out of your way to reject the answers you don't like right off the bat.
I didn't reject religion in the opening post. Although I do admit I am looking for more original responses.
My family, my kids, wanting to contribute to the management of the world's energy resources. I firmly believe that your identity in life is primarily shaped by what you are committed to. I am unlikely to every make that big of a difference in the energy sector but I am committed to doing so and it pulls me onwards through my education and career. So who knows? Maybe I will make a difference, but I just know the commitment to it makes me do things I ordinarily would not if I was just doing whatever felt good right now or whatever my self interest happens to be at the moment.
That is pretty much my life philosophy right there. It is important to be committed to something, I was going absolutely nowhere until I had that revelation.
1) Raising my children;
2) Coaching many other children even before I had children;
3) Pro Bono work
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 11:05:25 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 11:03:07 AM
Seriously though Marty, I don't quite know how to respond to your thread.
Absolutely I feel the need and desire to be part of "something greater", to live not just selfishly for myself, but for the wider world and community.
But right there in your original post you recognize what the two most popular answers are going to be "religion" and "family", and then go out of your way to say you aren't interested in those, or that they don't count.
I'm not saying you have to go out and start attending Church, marry a nice woman and start pumping out children. Everyone has to find their own path and calling. But you don't get to ask a deeply personal and philosophic question, and then go out of your way to reject the answers you don't like right off the bat.
I didn't reject religion in the opening post. Although I do admit I am looking for more original responses.
I'm sorry the things I find meaningful aren't "original" enough for you.
You are an attorney so you have the training to help out all sorts of activists and causes. I mean the law you know for your job may or may not be applicable but you have the training to learn whatever might be applicable in another field right? Anything you feel particularly strongly about you do some pro bono assistance?
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 17, 2014, 10:50:44 AM
Promoting yukkuri and the consumption of culture, the genesis & preservation of the South which will come into its kingdom in space.
When that galactic kingdom comes into being I can only imagine the pride you will feel.
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 11:13:52 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 11:05:25 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 11:03:07 AM
Seriously though Marty, I don't quite know how to respond to your thread.
Absolutely I feel the need and desire to be part of "something greater", to live not just selfishly for myself, but for the wider world and community.
But right there in your original post you recognize what the two most popular answers are going to be "religion" and "family", and then go out of your way to say you aren't interested in those, or that they don't count.
I'm not saying you have to go out and start attending Church, marry a nice woman and start pumping out children. Everyone has to find their own path and calling. But you don't get to ask a deeply personal and philosophic question, and then go out of your way to reject the answers you don't like right off the bat.
I didn't reject religion in the opening post. Although I do admit I am looking for more original responses.
I'm sorry the things I find meaningful aren't "original" enough for you.
You seem to be very defensive. If you are not interested in the thread, don't respond.
I'm not a family man by any stretch of the definition, so that leaves me a little freer to pursue my own particular obsession: artificial intelligence.
Aside from the practical limitations of engineering a functioning artificial intelligence, I'm also concerned with the ethics of creating sapient machines. In particular, just how much freedom should we allow for subjective decisions. If machines begin making subjective decisions, the pandora's box is that machines could interpret a situation in such a way as to act to a person's, or humanity's, detriment.
If we view AI as a tool, we can set boundaries to prevent that from happening and concentrate on objective reasoning. If we view an artificial intelligence as a form of life, on the other hand, deliberately limiting its cognitive abilities could be akin to a lobotomy, and the focus should be on training and guidance, with the acceptance that it will never be 100% safe.
Writing stuff that people will enjoy. Ideally stuff that would make them think, but I'm not sure I have something meaningful to say. So at least I want to entertain them a little bit.
I don't care much for creating a family, which at my age is sort of worrying me.
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 11:25:26 AM
You seem to be very defensive. If you are not interested in the thread, don't respond.
You're being pretty unclear though. You asked people what their "great work" was and said you weren't looking for suggestions for yourself, as you have your own ideas. And then you are rejecting people's replies because they're not sufficiently original for you.
It's kind of like you wanted to have a thread about yourself, but dressed it up in asking about other people even though you're not actually interested in what they have to say.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2014, 11:25:35 AM
I'm not a family man by any stretch of the definition, so that leaves me a little freer to pursue my own particular obsession: artificial intelligence.
Aside from the practical limitations of engineering a functioning artificial intelligence, I'm also concerned with the ethics of creating sapient machines. In particular, just how much freedom should we allow for subjective decisions. If machines begin making subjective decisions, the pandora's box is that machines could interpret a situation in such a way as to act to a person's, or humanity's, detriment.
If we view AI as a tool, we can set boundaries to prevent that from happening and concentrate on objective reasoning. If we view an artificial intelligence as a form of life, on the other hand, deliberately limiting its cognitive abilities could be akin to a lobotomy, and the focus should be on training and guidance, with the acceptance that it will never be 100% safe.
We should never have AIs. Machines exist to serve humanity and relieve people and animals of tedious labor. They are a means and should never be an ends.
Quote from: Valmy
When that galactic kingdom comes into being I can only imagine the pride you will feel.
It will be a soft and out-of-focus land; the illustrious and impetuous cavaliers of before will not rise again. Freebooters and Filibusters will no more spill their erratic gallantry into neighboring environs, but rather our regenerated Dixie will benefit from its long period of torpor and stagnation when once again it is exhumed into parts as yet unknown.
Mono no aware will preoccupy our fatalistic Southland; That culture which was once so vibrant and full of discordant strains will find itself more lethargic under the yoke of a cohesive orthodoxy. Obligation, memory and duty will step in as the heirs of honor, fame and audacity; the feudal state which once was shall in its regenesis draw upon different ideals from its pastiche of idealized Europe. Less and none of the JEB Stuart will remain, save for a love of beauty and a fondness for high society; pride and passion of such twinkling intensity have no place in our Dixie upon the stars.
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
We should never have AIs. Machines exist to serve humanity and relieve people and animals of tedious labor. They are a means and should never be an ends.
Longitudinal studies. Generational projects. Since the ebola thread is gaining so much traction, how about a perfect quarantine with a doctor that never needs to come out the other door? Until we have a reliable way to roll back death, there will always be a utility that can be filled by a machine not subject to human illnesses or longevity.
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 11:25:26 AM
You seem to be very defensive. If you are not interested in the thread, don't respond.
You're being pretty unclear though. You asked people what their "great work" was and said you weren't looking for suggestions for yourself, as you have your own ideas. And then you are rejecting people's replies because they're not sufficiently original for you.
It's kind of like you wanted to have a thread about yourself, but dressed it up in asking about other people even though you're not actually interested in what they have to say.
I thought he was pretty clear that he was interested in what are responses beyond raising kids. The problem, of course, is that for some people that is the answer to what their "great work" is - so it doesn't necessarily make sense to ask them to think "beyond" that.
My great work will have something to do with Klingons and the Persian Empire.
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 12:38:39 PM
I thought he was pretty clear that he was interested in what are responses beyond raising kids. The problem, of course, is that for some people that is the answer to what their "great work" is - so it doesn't necessarily make sense to ask them to think "beyond" that.
Okay, fair enough. Maybe Marty should hire you to rewrite his posts for clarity.
I think just living your normal life, not doing things for a living that detract from the well-being of society (being an investment banker, a political consultant, or a tobacco company lawyer), is enough to contribute to society.
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 11:25:26 AM
You seem to be very defensive. If you are not interested in the thread, don't respond.
You're being pretty unclear though. You asked people what their "great work" was and said you weren't looking for suggestions for yourself, as you have your own ideas. And then you are rejecting people's replies because they're not sufficiently original for you.
It's kind of like you wanted to have a thread about yourself, but dressed it up in asking about other people even though you're not actually interested in what they have to say.
I thought he was pretty clear that he was interested in what are responses beyond raising kids. The problem, of course, is that for some people that is the answer to what their "great work" is - so it doesn't necessarily make sense to ask them to think "beyond" that.
It's not just that he wasn't interested, he was completely dismissive of "family" being an answer to his vaguely worded question.
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 01:01:37 PM
It's not just that he wasn't interested, he was completely dismissive of "family" being an answer to his vaguely worded question.
Which is kind of silly actually, because even if you're not interested in having children of your own, many people find meaning by building virtual families through their "great work".
Another Marty vanity thread backfires :lol:
My great work is not going any great work.
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 01:01:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 11:25:26 AM
You seem to be very defensive. If you are not interested in the thread, don't respond.
You're being pretty unclear though. You asked people what their "great work" was and said you weren't looking for suggestions for yourself, as you have your own ideas. And then you are rejecting people's replies because they're not sufficiently original for you.
It's kind of like you wanted to have a thread about yourself, but dressed it up in asking about other people even though you're not actually interested in what they have to say.
I thought he was pretty clear that he was interested in what are responses beyond raising kids. The problem, of course, is that for some people that is the answer to what their "great work" is - so it doesn't necessarily make sense to ask them to think "beyond" that.
It's not just that he wasn't interested, he was completely dismissive of "family" being an answer to his vaguely worded question.
I don't think he was so dismissive of family being an answer - he was just not particularly interested about families and wanted to get answers beyond that.
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 11:28:56 AM
It's kind of like you wanted to have a thread about yourself, but dressed it up in asking about other people even though you're not actually interested in what they have to say.
Why, you make it sound like you've seem this sort of thing before.
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:20:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 01:01:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 11:25:26 AM
You seem to be very defensive. If you are not interested in the thread, don't respond.
You're being pretty unclear though. You asked people what their "great work" was and said you weren't looking for suggestions for yourself, as you have your own ideas. And then you are rejecting people's replies because they're not sufficiently original for you.
It's kind of like you wanted to have a thread about yourself, but dressed it up in asking about other people even though you're not actually interested in what they have to say.
I thought he was pretty clear that he was interested in what are responses beyond raising kids. The problem, of course, is that for some people that is the answer to what their "great work" is - so it doesn't necessarily make sense to ask them to think "beyond" that.
It's not just that he wasn't interested, he was completely dismissive of "family" being an answer to his vaguely worded question.
I don't think he was so dismissive of family being an answer - he was just not particularly interested about families and wanted to get answers beyond that.
Languish, you be the judge of Marty's intent and thinking.
Quote from: MartinusI suppose if you must, please say "raising children" but I am looking for something that benefits the community (or at least has a communal aspect) more than your immediate tribe.
:hmm:
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 01:23:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:20:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 01:01:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 11:25:26 AM
You seem to be very defensive. If you are not interested in the thread, don't respond.
You're being pretty unclear though. You asked people what their "great work" was and said you weren't looking for suggestions for yourself, as you have your own ideas. And then you are rejecting people's replies because they're not sufficiently original for you.
It's kind of like you wanted to have a thread about yourself, but dressed it up in asking about other people even though you're not actually interested in what they have to say.
I thought he was pretty clear that he was interested in what are responses beyond raising kids. The problem, of course, is that for some people that is the answer to what their "great work" is - so it doesn't necessarily make sense to ask them to think "beyond" that.
It's not just that he wasn't interested, he was completely dismissive of "family" being an answer to his vaguely worded question.
I don't think he was so dismissive of family being an answer - he was just not particularly interested about families and wanted to get answers beyond that.
Languish, you be the judge of Marty's intent and thinking.
Quote from: MartinusI suppose if you must, please say "raising children" but I am looking for something that benefits the community (or at least has a communal aspect) more than your immediate tribe.
:hmm:
God, parents are so obnoxious.
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
God, parents are so obnoxious.
Why, it's even as if I have a thread about that somewhere... :shifty:
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:27:12 PMGod, parents are so obnoxious.
Almost enough to make you wish you didn't have any, right?
Most great works have no communal aspect. Most great works that do have a communal aspect (Pyramids, Great Wall) are monuments to slavery and death.
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:27:12 PMGod, parents are so obnoxious.
Almost enough to make you wish you didn't have any, right?
No not really. Also, I was just thinking about how quick you are to perceive a slight that doesn't really even have to be one. Granted, I think you have all picked up correctly on Marti's generally tendencies, but if we are considering him to be "reformed", I think it would behoove us not to get so touchy and pissy before he does.
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:34:32 PMNo not really. Also, I was just thinking about how quick you are to perceive a slight that doesn't really even have to be one. Granted, I think you have all picked up correctly on Marti's generally tendencies, but if we are considering him to be "reformed", I think it would behoove us not to get so touchy and pissy before he does.
Marty has already shown that he hasn't reformed AFAIAC.
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 01:36:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:34:32 PMNo not really. Also, I was just thinking about how quick you are to perceive a slight that doesn't really even have to be one. Granted, I think you have all picked up correctly on Marti's generally tendencies, but if we are considering him to be "reformed", I think it would behoove us not to get so touchy and pissy before he does.
Marty has already shown that he hasn't reformed AFAIAC.
I've only seen him wish a terrible life on one person so far. -_-
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
God, parents are so obnoxious.
They just don't understand. :(
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
God, parents are so obnoxious.
Really? Huh. I rarely ever mention my kids around here.
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 01:55:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
God, parents are so obnoxious.
Really? Huh. I rarely ever mention my kids around here.
:( I like good stories about little kids.
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 01:55:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
God, parents are so obnoxious.
Really? Huh. I rarely ever mention my kids around here.
It was in relation to what BB is doing here. I wasn't complaining about parenting stories.
Parenting is like masturbating. It's enjoyable to you, but other people are not interested in hearing about it.
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:56:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 01:55:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
God, parents are so obnoxious.
Really? Huh. I rarely ever mention my kids around here.
It was in relation to what BB is doing here. I wasn't complaining about parenting stories.
And what exactly am I "doing here"?
Quote from: DGuller on October 17, 2014, 01:57:27 PM
Parenting is like masturbating. It's enjoyable to you, but other people are not interested in hearing about it.
Are you female and attractive? Then I might want to hear about it.
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 01:56:41 PM
:( I like good stories about little kids.
My kids are pretty quirky but I have to admit I am so partisan and so biased when it comes to my kids that I do not really like sharing stories about them. Because if the response is something other than 'that is amazing your kids are the most amazing children ever' part of me dies a bit inside :blush:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2014, 11:39:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
We should never have AIs. Machines exist to serve humanity and relieve people and animals of tedious labor. They are a means and should never be an ends.
Longitudinal studies. Generational projects. Since the ebola thread is gaining so much traction, how about a perfect quarantine with a doctor that never needs to come out the other door? Until we have a reliable way to roll back death, there will always be a utility that can be filled by a machine not subject to human illnesses or longevity.
Sure a doctor bot that can do standard things based on inputs or is controlled remotely. But a machine independently making subjective decisions? Who is responsible for that machine's decisions? Who is accountable? We going to take the Doc Bot to court? Society is based on human agency, human responsibility and it is run for us. Robots and computers are going to be doing massive amounts of work in the future but in the end how those robots function and everything they do is some human's (or groups of human's) responsibility.
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 02:01:41 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 01:56:41 PM
:( I like good stories about little kids.
My kids are pretty quirky but I have to admit I am so partisan and so biased when it comes to my kids that I do not really like sharing stories about them. Because if the response is something other than 'that is amazing your kids are the most amazing children ever' part of me dies a bit inside :blush:
Meh - I know my kids are (mostly) pretty average. I just post stuff to try and bring a smile to someone's face.
On Facebook I posted a couple of pics of Andrew just deciding to put himself down for a nap. On the floor. Once sleeping underneath his bed.
Tracy's aunt posted "oh don't worry this is normal". I know it's normal. I just thought it was funny. :)
I am well aware on a rational level my kids are nothing special BB :P
I like sharing funny stuff my kids do or say, and always appreciate hearing the same from other parents. Because that's the big payoff IMO for enduring parenting-- comedy material :)
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
We should never have AIs. Machines exist to serve humanity and relieve people and animals of tedious labor. They are a means and should never be an ends.
I really don't think you're cut out to be an engineer, Valmy. :(
Quote from: Savonarola on October 17, 2014, 02:12:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
We should never have AIs. Machines exist to serve humanity and relieve people and animals of tedious labor. They are a means and should never be an ends.
I really don't think you're cut out to be an engineer, Valmy. :(
But...but....I am literally just interested in powering things. Providing sweet wattages to the electronic minds of our future AI masters.
Quote from: derspiess on October 17, 2014, 02:12:00 PM
I like sharing funny stuff my kids do or say, and always appreciate hearing the same from other parents. Because that's the big payoff IMO for enduring parenting-- comedy material :)
Alright I will try to say more about my kids. I have before but there was not a whole lot of interest. Even my totally sweet soccer playing photos.
Once Valmy seizes power, AI may be his biggest threat. I can see why he mistrusts it.
:D
I like how this thread got hijacked into "parenting megathread". :lol:
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:24:25 PM
I like how this thread got hijacked into "parenting megathread". :lol:
Valmy will create you some android children so you can have some of the joys of parenthood without most of the hassle.
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
But...but....I am literally just interested in powering things. Providing sweet wattages to the electronic minds of our future AI masters.
Thing is, engineers design tools. I even presented AI as a means to several ends. That's like saying we shouldn't have drills because nobody should have taken the time to design it, as a drill (now) is just a means to an end product.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2014, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
But...but....I am literally just interested in powering things. Providing sweet wattages to the electronic minds of our future AI masters.
Thing is, engineers design tools. I even presented AI as a means to several ends. That's like saying we shouldn't have drills because nobody should have taken the time to design it, as a drill (now) is just a means to an end product.
:hmm: :huh:
Quote from: DGuller on October 17, 2014, 02:30:37 PM
QuoteThing is, engineers design tools. I even presented AI as a means to several ends. That's like saying we shouldn't have drills because nobody should have taken the time to design it, as a drill (now) is just a means to an end product.
:hmm: :huh:
Not included in the quoted bit, he said AI should be a means and never an end. I'll edit that for clarification.
Quote from: DGuller on October 17, 2014, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2014, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
But...but....I am literally just interested in powering things. Providing sweet wattages to the electronic minds of our future AI masters.
Thing is, engineers design tools. I even presented AI as a means to several ends. That's like saying we shouldn't have drills because nobody should have taken the time to design it, as a drill (now) is just a means to an end product.
:hmm: :huh:
Marti has competition!
Ok this thread has gone into a weird direction.
Btw, I am thinking of joining freemasons. :P
Quote from: grumbler on October 17, 2014, 02:39:26 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 17, 2014, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2014, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
But...but....I am literally just interested in powering things. Providing sweet wattages to the electronic minds of our future AI masters.
Thing is, engineers design tools. I even presented AI as a means to several ends. That's like saying we shouldn't have drills because nobody should have taken the time to design it, as a drill (now) is just a means to an end product.
:hmm: :huh:
Marti has competition!
Everyone is ignoring my entry to that competition. :(
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:45:36 PM
Btw, I am thinking of joining freemasons. :P
I've had a couple of uncles who were masons, plus I attended some masonic-affiliated youth camp for a week when I was a kid.
They're a final and noble organization who does a fair bit of community work (though I don't think that's their primary purpose - still more of a social club with a side of charity). Their "belief structure" is complete rubbish of course, but I don't think you have to treat it all that seriously.
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 17, 2014, 02:12:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
We should never have AIs. Machines exist to serve humanity and relieve people and animals of tedious labor. They are a means and should never be an ends.
I really don't think you're cut out to be an engineer, Valmy. :(
But...but....I am literally just interested in powering things. Providing sweet wattages to the electronic minds of our future AI masters.
Don't feel bad, you could always change your major to math, like this guy:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.solarnavigator.net%2Ffilms_movies_actors%2Factors_films_images%2Fjeff_goldblum.jpg&hash=914e2c6073c5e3fb76ab9df43a62f2f2fb0a8cc1)
...your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:45:36 PM
Ok this thread has gone into a weird direction.
Btw, I am thinking of joining freemasons. :P
Do you have nice looking knees?
Local pub here called the 'Square and Compasses', has no masonic links/connotations, actually 'originated' because of the local quarries.
But another local boozer actually has a masonic hall built into it.
And still every Friday (I think), you can see little men dressed in dark suites, carrying small suitcases (implements?) at around 5 pm individually making their way to the meeting.
Odd they never seem to broadcast their affiliation or knowledge of each other by arriving in small groups.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 17, 2014, 02:29:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:24:25 PM
I like how this thread got hijacked into "parenting megathread". :lol:
Valmy will create you some android children so you can have some of the joys of parenthood without most of the hassle.
I recommend including a mute button and a "go to sleep" feature.
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 03:42:42 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 17, 2014, 02:29:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:24:25 PM
I like how this thread got hijacked into "parenting megathread". :lol:
Valmy will create you some android children so you can have some of the joys of parenthood without most of the hassle.
I recommend including a mute button and a "go to sleep" feature.
Self-cleaning mode would be a big feature as well.
To actually answer the OP (yes I know, strange concept :P ): When I was young, my "Great Work" was going to be designing a work combining philosophy and art in such a way as to move humanity in a positive direction; as I get older, the focus has narrowed; I can already look forward to the day when my "Great Work" will consist of getting out of bed. :D
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 03:45:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 03:42:42 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 17, 2014, 02:29:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:24:25 PM
I like how this thread got hijacked into "parenting megathread". :lol:
Valmy will create you some android children so you can have some of the joys of parenthood without most of the hassle.
I recommend including a mute button and a "go to sleep" feature.
Self-cleaning mode would be a big feature as well.
The biological ones eventually grow that feature ... 'cleaning up after themselves' is a bit more of a challenge. :D
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2014, 03:46:43 PM
To actually answer the OP (yes I know, strange concept :P ): When I was young, my "Great Work" was going to be designing a work combining philosophy and art in such a way as to move humanity in a positive direction; as I get older, the focus has narrowed; I can already look forward to the day when my "Great Work" will consist of getting out of bed. :D
You might enjoy Henry James's The Madonna of the Future (http://[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA32DHT9AyM). It's a monument to procrastinators everywhere. :bowler:
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2014, 03:47:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 03:45:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 03:42:42 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 17, 2014, 02:29:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:24:25 PM
I like how this thread got hijacked into "parenting megathread". :lol:
Valmy will create you some android children so you can have some of the joys of parenthood without most of the hassle.
I recommend including a mute button and a "go to sleep" feature.
Self-cleaning mode would be a big feature as well.
The biological ones eventually grow that feature ... 'cleaning up after themselves' is a bit more of a challenge. :D
Yesterday I was at home with the boys. Timmy goes "Daddy! Daddy! some See!" and brings me into his room.
He and his brother had cleaned up all the toys - without me asking.
On the one hand I was - very proud. :cool:
On the other hand I wish they'd do it every day, and not act like it was some major sacrifice on their part. <_<
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:45:36 PM
Ok this thread has gone into a weird direction.
Maybe you can consider it your "great work"?
My Great Life Project is to design and implement an organizing principle to replace the failed Methodism of my father.
No offense intended Speesh.
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2014, 03:46:43 PM
To actually answer the OP (yes I know, strange concept :P ): When I was young, my "Great Work" was going to be designing a work combining philosophy and art in such a way as to move humanity in a positive direction; as I get older, the focus has narrowed; I can already look forward to the day when my "Great Work" will consist of getting out of bed. :D
:D
Yes, I was going to write an integrated world history that explained why things happened the way they did.
I've now rescaled my ambitions and hope to vacuum my study tomorrow :P
To be left alone to read books, drink, listen to music, and earn my daily bread.
Organic Superlube.
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:40:10 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 17, 2014, 01:36:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2014, 01:34:32 PMNo not really. Also, I was just thinking about how quick you are to perceive a slight that doesn't really even have to be one. Granted, I think you have all picked up correctly on Marti's generally tendencies, but if we are considering him to be "reformed", I think it would behoove us not to get so touchy and pissy before he does.
Marty has already shown that he hasn't reformed AFAIAC.
I've only seen him wish a terrible life on one person so far. -_-
Yeah, that's not so bad. Before, he would have wished terrible deaths on several of us by now.
Quote from: derspiess on October 17, 2014, 02:18:07 PM
Don't feel bad, you could always change your major to math, like this guy:
:x
I am two months from graduating and damn me if I ever see another classroom after this.
My Great Work was the Jackson Pollack all along the bowl sides of the toilet about 18 minutes ago. Beat that, Ed.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 17, 2014, 06:42:01 PM
Organic Superlube.
Oh, it's great stuff, great stuff. You really have to keep an eye on it, though—it'll try and slide away from you the first chance it gets.
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:45:36 PM
Ok this thread has gone into a weird direction.
Btw, I am thinking of joining freemasons. :P
The Freemasons are a fine organization. You get to do lots of charity work and you secretly rule the world.
Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down? We do, we do!
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps? We do, we do!
Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star? We do, we do!
Who robs cavefish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscar night? We do, we do, we do!
Apparently freemasons hook each other up in the business world more than big school alumni.
Quote from: derspiess on October 17, 2014, 02:18:07 PM
Once Valmy seizes power, AI may be his biggest threat. I can see why he mistrusts it.
Actually the entire basis of my empire will be my army of Battle Droids. Just trying to make sure DSB doesn't beat me to it.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2014, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
But...but....I am literally just interested in powering things. Providing sweet wattages to the electronic minds of our future AI masters.
Thing is, engineers design tools. I even presented AI as a means to several ends. That's like saying we shouldn't have drills because nobody should have taken the time to design it, as a drill (now) is just a means to an end product.
No it is not like saying that.
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:24:25 PM
I like how this thread got hijacked into "parenting megathread". :lol:
:unsure: Did we even have 20 posts on this topic?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2014, 09:05:17 PM
My Great Work was the Jackson Pollack all along the bowl sides of the toilet about 18 minutes ago. Beat that, Ed.
I've shit 5 times today.
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 09:07:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 17, 2014, 06:42:01 PM
Organic Superlube.
Oh, it's great stuff, great stuff. You really have to keep an eye on it, though—it'll try and slide away from you the first chance it gets.
:)
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 17, 2014, 09:21:10 PM
I've shit 5 times today.
Yeah, there's a medical term for that. It's called "dying". :console:
Enchiladas.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2014, 09:15:01 PM
Apparently freemasons hook each other up in the business world more than big school alumni.
Having worked for a freemason, holy balls, yes.
Having a masonic ring is pretty much the holy grail of networking. It was always amazing watching my old boss get wheeling and dealing once he established contact with a fellow freemason at *any* level of an organization he was doing business with.
Damn maybe I should join the Freemasons.
I won't wear an apron.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 17, 2014, 05:12:21 PM
My Great Life Project is to design and implement an organizing principle to replace the failed Methodism of my father.
Does your father consider that Methodism has failed him?
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2014, 09:47:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2014, 09:15:01 PM
Apparently freemasons hook each other up in the business world more than big school alumni.
Having worked for a freemason, holy balls, yes.
Having a masonic ring is pretty much the holy grail of networking. It was always amazing watching my old boss get wheeling and dealing once he established contact with a fellow freemason at *any* level of an organization he was doing business with.
I don't know if many masons exist under the age of 80 or so.
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 10:21:29 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 17, 2014, 05:12:21 PM
My Great Life Project is to design and implement an organizing principle to replace the failed Methodism of my father.
Does your father consider that Methodism has failed him?
I am frankly more confused about Methodism being an organizing principle.
One day I will help Ide make a very poignant political statement.
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 10:22:05 PM
I don't know if many masons exist under the age of 80 or so.
Hard to estimate- they don't usually advertise it so much. That boss I worked for is in his mid-40s, though. Also, a friend of mine in my grade in high school married a guy two years ahead of us who is a mason, for a couple of examples that they're still around.
Fun fact: my mom was actually a member of the female equivalent: the Order of the Eastern Star, so maybe I'm a little tuned to it, since I grew up around that stuff. I actually considered freemasonry, but the sticking point is that I'm really not sure whether or not I "believe in a supreme being."
i don't think i've ever had a desire to accomplish a "great work" as defined in this thread. :hmm:
Quote from: LaCroix on October 17, 2014, 11:17:44 PM
i don't think i've ever had a desire to accomplish a "great work" as defined in this thread. :hmm:
In this, I have sympathy for Marty's thread.
Have you never aspired to be a part of something "greater than yourself"? Whether it be your family, your faith, to improve the world, to leave some mark after you're gone... is there not some greater purpose to our day to day existence than merely existing?
i mean, i'd like to have children some day, but that's more out of selfishness. i have every respect for mankind, etc., i just don't think i've ever wanted to actually help out. it's not that i lack drive, it's just focused inward rather than outward. beating down competition/opposition is a heck of a lot more fun and interesting. :Canuck:
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 10:22:05 PM
I don't know if many masons exist under the age of 80 or so.
Still very big with the younger Dazzling Urbanites.
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 10:21:29 PM
Does your father consider that Methodism has failed him?
No.
The explanation is that he lacks introspection.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2014, 10:44:18 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 10:22:05 PM
I don't know if many masons exist under the age of 80 or so.
Hard to estimate- they don't usually advertise it so much. That boss I worked for is in his mid-40s, though. Also, a friend of mine in my grade in high school married a guy two years ahead of us who is a mason, for a couple of examples that they're still around.
Fun fact: my mom was actually a member of the female equivalent: the Order of the Eastern Star, so maybe I'm a little tuned to it, since I grew up around that stuff. I actually considered freemasonry, but the sticking point is that I'm really not sure whether or not I "believe in a supreme being."
That is why I am considering joining the Grand Orient.
Poland has three grand lodges - the Grand National Lodge of Poland (which follows the ancient and recognised Scottish rite), the Grand Orient Lodge of Poland and the Polish Grand Lodge "Droit Humaine".
The Grand National Lodge is too conservative for my tastes. The Grand Orient is most leftist/liberal and it does not have a requirement to believe in the great architect. Droit Humaine is the smallest one (it also accepts women).
What about Rotary or Lion's Club?
Quote from: Syt on October 18, 2014, 02:30:48 AM
What about Rotary or Lion's Club?
It's more of a big money/wealth snobbery thing here (and freemasonry is a more of intellectual/academic/ideological snobbery here, which is much more up my alley). I also like that freemasonic lodges have a bit of that mystical/spiritual element without going full religious. I miss that part of my life from when I was a catholic (and later got involved in occultism) but now I have an aversion to organised religion and am unable to treat occultism seriously.
Have you considered founding your own religion?
Quote from: Syt on October 18, 2014, 02:41:45 AM
Have you considered founding your own religion?
Yes, but that's too much work and usually you need to get martyred. The thing is, over the last 15 years or so I tried Trident Catholicism (but found it lacking for obvious reasons) and then had a brief fling with gnosticism (too far fetched). At college I took a brief interest in one of the academic fraternities (which are more like conservative associations than US-style frats) but it took me two meetings to realise they are a bunch of antisemitic assholes who trace direct origin to nationalistic pre-war student organisations who used to beat up Jewish students. Then I dabbled with Wicca, Thelema, Chaos Magick and Rosicrucianism, but realised that it is practiced mainly by weirdos who, given that one of the stated goals is the mastery of the material and spiritual plane, seem incapable of getting their way out of a wet paper bag and are much less successful on the "material" plane than I am. I tried LGBT activism but found it populated by vapid people. I considered joining a political party but each prove to be full of cynical assholes and lost my vote before I even applied. I tried (and still practice) kundalini yoga but while it is good for stretching your muscles and calming your mind, it is hard to build your life around it.
I guess what I got as a result is a really great conversation piece of a bookshelf. :P
I suppose now it's masons or bust.
Edit: Ok, I guess Languish is one group that kept my interest long enough. :hmm:
Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 03:00:51 AM
Then I dabbled with Wicca, Thelema, Chaos Magick and Rosicrucianism, but realised that it is practiced mainly by weirdos
<snip>
Edit: Ok, I guess Languish is one group that kept my interest long enough. :hmm:
:huh:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 18, 2014, 03:14:07 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 03:00:51 AM
Then I dabbled with Wicca, Thelema, Chaos Magick and Rosicrucianism, but realised that it is practiced mainly by weirdos
<snip>
Edit: Ok, I guess Languish is one group that kept my interest long enough. :hmm:
:huh:
But you guys are more interesting weirdos. Imagine a group where everybody is like mongers. :P
Martinus, you could always just worship Stannis.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 17, 2014, 10:40:23 PM
One day I will help Ide make a very poignant political statement.
Destruction of liberal arts degrees leading to the establishment of a totalitarian state based on air power and surveillance as explained through movie reviews. The Ide manifesto.
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2014, 09:03:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 17, 2014, 02:18:07 PM
Don't feel bad, you could always change your major to math, like this guy:
:x
I am two months from graduating and damn me if I ever see another classroom after this.
How did I turn into derspiess? :unsure:
All jokes aside, you should consider graduate school before you take your PE exam. You're not going to be doing the sort of problems they ask on the exam as part of your career; but you will in graduate school.
No real great work for me. The one thing I do that seems to have larger noticeable effects beyond me is teaching. Most of the students are drones or brain dead, but some come up to me in the years following their freshmen experience of Western Civilization and thank me for helping.
Really, if all I get out of this is a few kids that think a bit more, push themselves a bit more, and experience a bit more of life and the human story, I have done something.
It is like having kids but not caring that 99% of them are morons.
Quote from: PDH on October 18, 2014, 08:23:08 AM
No real great work for me. The one thing I do that seems to have larger noticeable effects beyond me is teaching. Most of the students are drones or brain dead, but some come up to me in the years following their freshmen experience of Western Civilization and thank me for helping.
Really, if all I get out of this is a few kids that think a bit more, push themselves a bit more, and experience a bit more of life and the human story, I have done something.
It is like having kids but not caring that 99% of them are morons.
Well I think that's a pretty worthwhile and cool thing to be doing. :cheers:
Also, there's quite a lot wisdom in what DG said further up the thread. Often it's enough that you behave in a civilised manner within society, paying taxes and contributing by default, by not being a destructive/obstructive force in the civilizations we're unconsciously building/maintaining.
Quote from: mongers on October 18, 2014, 09:07:47 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 18, 2014, 08:23:08 AM
No real great work for me. The one thing I do that seems to have larger noticeable effects beyond me is teaching. Most of the students are drones or brain dead, but some come up to me in the years following their freshmen experience of Western Civilization and thank me for helping.
Really, if all I get out of this is a few kids that think a bit more, push themselves a bit more, and experience a bit more of life and the human story, I have done something.
It is like having kids but not caring that 99% of them are morons.
Well I think that's a pretty worthwhile and cool thing to be doing. :cheers:
Also, there's quite a lot wisdom in what DG said further up the thread. Often it's enough that you behave in a civilised manner within society, paying taxes and contributing by default, by not being a destructive/obstructive force in the civilizations we're unconsciously building/maintaining.
But that is not the point of this thread. I did not say people who do not have a "great work" are worthless or less than people who do - I am just saying that I feel a need of something like this at this point in my life, and asked if people also feel that need and how they fulfil it.
I don't think "great works" are accomplished because someone sets out to accomplish a "great work." I think almost all of them are accomplished as a byproduct of people pursuing their own passions, when those passions motivate people to work the work needed to create excellence. Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa as a "great work." In fact, he didn't think of himself as a painter much at all (noting in a letter that he sculpted, and "paint a bit").
I think that people who set out to create a "great work" won't do it, 'cuz they're doing it wrong. Do what you care about with as much excellence as you can muster, and let the chips fall where they may.
Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2014, 10:35:06 AM
I don't think "great works" are accomplished because someone sets out to accomplish a "great work." I think almost all of them are accomplished as a byproduct of people pursuing their own passions, when those passions motivate people to work the work needed to create excellence. Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa as a "great work." In fact, he didn't think of himself as a painter much at all (noting in a letter that he sculpted, and "paint a bit").
I think that people who set out to create a "great work" won't do it, 'cuz they're doing it wrong. Do what you care about with as much excellence as you can muster, and let the chips fall where they may.
I think you are committing the fallacy of four terms. I defined what I mean by "great work" in the OP. You are applying a different definition.
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:45:36 PMBtw, I am thinking of joining freemasons. :P
There ya go. Everyone needs a good social circle.
Quote from: Savonarola on October 18, 2014, 07:05:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 17, 2014, 10:40:23 PM
One day I will help Ide make a very poignant political statement.
Destruction of liberal arts degrees leading to the establishment of a totalitarian state based on air power and surveillance as explained through movie reviews. The Ide manifesto.
I don't care what he's after. I get to light him on fire as part of the demonstration.
I work for a charity, so I suppose my career so far is built around working for the public good (in my case, in other countries affected by war).
The problem with trying to turn into a glowing ball of light, however, is that it doesn't help you buy a house or a car. I often think I should have become an investment banker, or a plumber.
Quote from: Warspite on October 18, 2014, 11:39:07 AM
The problem with trying to turn into a glowing ball of light, however, is that it doesn't help you buy a house or a car. I often think I should have become an investment banker, or a plumber.
Good Works is nice if you're a Jesuit, but they're broke anyway. But Good Works ain't Great Works.
You don't get ahead in this life by creating Great Works, but by committing Great Atrocities.
Quote from: Savonarola on October 18, 2014, 08:05:38 AM
All jokes aside, you should consider graduate school before you take your PE exam. You're not going to be doing the sort of problems they ask on the exam as part of your career; but you will in graduate school.
The only way I could consider graduate school is if somebody else was going to pay for it.
The PE exam is that freaky eh?
Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 10:44:48 AM
I think you are committing the fallacy of four terms. I defined what I mean by "great work" in the OP. You are applying a different definition.
Sorry. I forgot that English isn't your native language. :blush:
The term you think you made up already has a specific meaning in English. Maybe you should choose another, like "good works" which has a vague enough meaning in English that your own personal definition might fit.
If you feel you need good works to give meaning to your life, then it almost doesn't matter what you choose, so long as you are good enough at it to add value to someone else's life. I teach because I am good enough at explaining things, and at understanding what students say, that I can get those light bulbs to turn on in students' heads and let them see the world in a different and more advanced way. There's a great deal of satisfaction and "good works" in teaching, which is why I always get a laugh out of teachers who whine about their $80,000 a year pay. If they are in teaching for the pay, they're doing it wrong. But, if someone doesn't think that they are doing good works in their job, there are plenty of things they can do in their own time to make up for it, and it almost doesn't matter what they choose to do.
Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 02:34:47 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 18, 2014, 02:30:48 AM
What about Rotary or Lion's Club?
It's more of a big money/wealth snobbery thing here (and freemasonry is a more of intellectual/academic/ideological snobbery here, which is much more up my alley). I also like that freemasonic lodges have a bit of that mystical/spiritual element without going full religious. I miss that part of my life from when I was a catholic (and later got involved in occultism) but now I have an aversion to organised religion and am unable to treat occultism seriously.
I sense a problem with religion (which promotes selflessness) conflicting with your own narcissism and selfishness. The solution is simple: You go insane and think God is talking directly to you. That way you have religion centered around you.
Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2014, 12:30:16 PM
The term you think you made up already has a specific meaning in English. Maybe you should choose another, like "good works" which has a vague enough meaning in English that your own personal definition might fit.
I think the term he's looking for is raison d'etre. :frog:
Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2014, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 10:44:48 AM
I think you are committing the fallacy of four terms. I defined what I mean by "great work" in the OP. You are applying a different definition.
Sorry. I forgot that English isn't your native language. :blush:
The term you think you made up already has a specific meaning in English. Maybe you should choose another, like "good works" which has a vague enough meaning in English that your own personal definition might fit.
If you feel you need good works to give meaning to your life, then it almost doesn't matter what you choose, so long as you are good enough at it to add value to someone else's life. I teach because I am good enough at explaining things, and at understanding what students say, that I can get those light bulbs to turn on in students' heads and let them see the world in a different and more advanced way. There's a great deal of satisfaction and "good works" in teaching, which is why I always get a laugh out of teachers who whine about their $80,000 a year pay. If they are in teaching for the pay, they're doing it wrong. But, if someone doesn't think that they are doing good works in their job, there are plenty of things they can do in their own time to make up for it, and it almost doesn't matter what they choose to do.
I meant it in the sense in which freemasons actually use it.
And I am familiar with the term "good works" or "good deeds" but I was aiming for something else (though there is overlap). I guess another, more appropriate description, would be "higher calling".
Avocation
Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 02:16:34 PM
And I am familiar with the term "good works" or "good deeds" but I was aiming for something else (though there is overlap). I guess another, more appropriate description, would be "higher calling".
That is a good term for it.
I feel no need for a higher calling, but would agree that many do, and it is a worthy ambition.
These days, the only higher calling I hear is Mom from the top of the stairs. GET IT
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2014, 12:17:31 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 18, 2014, 08:05:38 AM
All jokes aside, you should consider graduate school before you take your PE exam. You're not going to be doing the sort of problems they ask on the exam as part of your career; but you will in graduate school.
The only way I could consider graduate school is if somebody else was going to pay for it.
Yes, of course, everywhere that I have worked (which, admittedly, have all been enormous conglomerates) has had tuition reimbursement.
QuoteThe PE exam is that freaky eh?
The problems are more advanced than what you'll find on the FE, but it's much more narrowly focused. The issues with the exam are that five years out of school you'll be out of practice for studying and taking tests and that a lot of questions will come from areas outside of what you've done in your career. With a graduate degree you'll have recent practice in test taking and a broader perspective on your field of engineering.
At least that was my experience. There was one question on the entire Electrical Engineering, Systems PE exam that dealt with cellular and maybe half a dozen that dealt with radio frequency. I had recently taken many courses that had dealt with communication theory and controls so I was familiar with almost every question asked. (You'll probably take the Electrical Engineering, Power PE exam; so don't let the communication theory part scare you.)
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2014, 03:01:16 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:45:36 PM
Btw, I am thinking of joining freemasons. :P
I've had a couple of uncles who were masons, plus I attended some masonic-affiliated youth camp for a week when I was a kid.
They're a final and noble organization who does a fair bit of community work (though I don't think that's their primary purpose - still more of a social club with a side of charity). Their "belief structure" is complete rubbish of course, but I don't think you have to treat it all that seriously.
Freemasons! :bleeding: The Freemasons and the Jews! :bleeding: :bleeding:
I don't know if it counts as a "Great Work", but my contributions to Internet forums made me the Time Person of the Year in 2006.
Did you miss out on the 2011 action?