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What is your "Great Work"?

Started by Martinus, October 17, 2014, 10:40:19 AM

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Martinus

Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2014, 10:35:06 AM
I don't think "great works" are accomplished because someone sets out to accomplish a "great work."  I think almost all of them are accomplished as a byproduct of people pursuing their own passions, when those passions motivate people to work the work needed to create excellence.  Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa as a "great work."  In fact, he didn't think of himself as a painter much at all (noting in a letter that he sculpted, and "paint a bit").

I think that people who set out to create a "great work" won't do it, 'cuz they're doing it wrong.  Do what you care about with as much excellence as you can muster, and let the chips fall where they may.

I think you are committing the fallacy of four terms. I defined what I mean by "great work" in the OP. You are applying a different definition.

Legbiter

Quote from: Martinus on October 17, 2014, 02:45:36 PMBtw, I am thinking of joining freemasons. :P

There ya go. Everyone needs a good social circle.
Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

Razgovory

Quote from: Savonarola on October 18, 2014, 07:05:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 17, 2014, 10:40:23 PM
One day I will help Ide make a very poignant political statement.

Destruction of liberal arts degrees leading to the establishment of a totalitarian state based on air power and surveillance as explained through movie reviews.  The Ide manifesto.

I don't care what he's after.  I get to light him on fire as part of the demonstration.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Warspite

I work for a charity, so I suppose my career so far is built around working for the public good (in my case, in other countries affected by war).

The problem with trying to turn into a glowing ball of light, however, is that it doesn't help you buy a house or a car. I often think I should have become an investment banker, or a plumber.
" SIR – I must commend you on some of your recent obituaries. I was delighted to read of the deaths of Foday Sankoh (August 9th), and Uday and Qusay Hussein (July 26th). Do you take requests? "

OVO JE SRBIJA
BUDALO, OVO JE POSTA

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Warspite on October 18, 2014, 11:39:07 AM
The problem with trying to turn into a glowing ball of light, however, is that it doesn't help you buy a house or a car. I often think I should have become an investment banker, or a plumber.

Good Works is nice if you're a Jesuit, but they're broke anyway.  But Good Works ain't Great Works.

You don't get ahead in this life by creating Great Works, but by committing Great Atrocities.

Valmy

Quote from: Savonarola on October 18, 2014, 08:05:38 AM
All jokes aside, you should consider graduate school before you take your PE exam.  You're not going to be doing the sort of problems they ask on the exam as part of your career; but you will in graduate school.

The only way I could consider graduate school is if somebody else was going to pay for it.

The PE exam is that freaky eh?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

grumbler

Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 10:44:48 AM
I think you are committing the fallacy of four terms. I defined what I mean by "great work" in the OP. You are applying a different definition.
Sorry.  I forgot that English isn't your native language.  :blush:

The term you think you made up already has a specific meaning in English.  Maybe you should choose another, like "good works" which has a vague enough meaning in English that your own personal definition might fit.

If you feel you need good works to give meaning to your life, then it almost doesn't matter what you choose, so long as you are good enough at it to add value to someone else's life.  I teach because I am good enough at explaining things, and at understanding what students say, that I can get those light bulbs to turn on in students' heads and let them see the world in a different and more advanced way.  There's a great deal of satisfaction and "good works" in teaching, which is why I always get a laugh out of teachers who whine about their $80,000 a year pay.  If they are in teaching for the pay, they're doing it wrong.  But, if someone doesn't think that they are doing good works in their job, there are plenty of things they can do in their own time to make up for it, and it almost doesn't matter what they choose to do.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Razgovory

Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 02:34:47 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 18, 2014, 02:30:48 AM
What about Rotary or Lion's Club?

It's more of a big money/wealth snobbery thing here (and freemasonry is a more of intellectual/academic/ideological snobbery here, which is much more up my alley). I also like that freemasonic lodges have a bit of that mystical/spiritual element without going full religious. I miss that part of my life from when I was a catholic (and later got involved in occultism) but now I have an aversion to organised religion and am unable to treat occultism seriously.

I sense a problem with religion (which promotes selflessness) conflicting with your own narcissism and selfishness.  The solution is simple:  You go insane and think God is talking directly to you.  That way you have religion centered around you.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Eddie Teach

Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2014, 12:30:16 PM
The term you think you made up already has a specific meaning in English.  Maybe you should choose another, like "good works" which has a vague enough meaning in English that your own personal definition might fit.

I think the term he's looking for is raison d'etre. :frog:
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Martinus

Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2014, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 10:44:48 AM
I think you are committing the fallacy of four terms. I defined what I mean by "great work" in the OP. You are applying a different definition.
Sorry.  I forgot that English isn't your native language.  :blush:

The term you think you made up already has a specific meaning in English.  Maybe you should choose another, like "good works" which has a vague enough meaning in English that your own personal definition might fit.

If you feel you need good works to give meaning to your life, then it almost doesn't matter what you choose, so long as you are good enough at it to add value to someone else's life.  I teach because I am good enough at explaining things, and at understanding what students say, that I can get those light bulbs to turn on in students' heads and let them see the world in a different and more advanced way.  There's a great deal of satisfaction and "good works" in teaching, which is why I always get a laugh out of teachers who whine about their $80,000 a year pay.  If they are in teaching for the pay, they're doing it wrong.  But, if someone doesn't think that they are doing good works in their job, there are plenty of things they can do in their own time to make up for it, and it almost doesn't matter what they choose to do.

I meant it in the sense in which freemasons actually use it.

Martinus

And I am familiar with the term "good works" or "good deeds" but I was aiming for something else (though there is overlap). I guess another, more appropriate description, would be "higher calling".


grumbler

Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2014, 02:16:34 PM
And I am familiar with the term "good works" or "good deeds" but I was aiming for something else (though there is overlap). I guess another, more appropriate description, would be "higher calling".
That is a good term for it.

I feel no need for a higher calling, but would agree that many do, and it is a worthy ambition.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

CountDeMoney

These days, the only higher calling I hear is Mom from the top of the stairs.  GET IT

Savonarola

Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2014, 12:17:31 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 18, 2014, 08:05:38 AM
All jokes aside, you should consider graduate school before you take your PE exam.  You're not going to be doing the sort of problems they ask on the exam as part of your career; but you will in graduate school.

The only way I could consider graduate school is if somebody else was going to pay for it.

Yes, of course, everywhere that I have worked (which, admittedly, have all been enormous conglomerates) has had tuition reimbursement.

QuoteThe PE exam is that freaky eh?

The problems are more advanced than what you'll find on the FE, but it's much more narrowly focused.  The issues with the exam are that five years out of school you'll be out of practice for studying and taking tests and that a lot of questions will come from areas outside of what you've done in your career.  With a graduate degree you'll have recent practice in test taking and a broader perspective on your field of engineering.

At least that was my experience.  There was one question on the entire Electrical Engineering, Systems PE exam that dealt with cellular and maybe half a dozen that dealt with radio frequency.  I had recently taken many courses that had dealt with communication theory and controls so I was familiar with almost every question asked.  (You'll probably take the Electrical Engineering, Power PE  exam; so don't let the communication theory part scare you.)
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock