Since we have so many cinema experts here, I thought I would start a discussion on special effects. This isn't about the best special effects in a film, just the ones that impressed you the most. I imagine that for a good many of us, these will be from movies a few decades old that we saw as kids. For instance, for me I was most impressed with the special effects in Jurassic Park (which I saw in a theater). A second one might be the Skeleton scene from Jason and the Argonauts (which I did not).
The model spaceships from star wars, it still holds up while cgi doesn't.
The T-1000, certainly. The CGI was used to great effect in the film, too.
Stuff like Sindbad, Clash of the Titans or Jason and the Argonauts on TV really impressed me as a kid, probably more so than anything that came after. Harryhausen FTW.
Theater wise, I think Jurassic Park blew me the most away when it was new. And Independence Day was pretty amazing for its day.
Another vote for Jurassic Park. No film has matched it for CGI since.
Honorable mention for The Thing.
Well, there's Gravity. Recent, but there you have it. It's not magical or mysterious, but it is impressive.
The more respectable answer is The Invisible Man. I had no idea that kind of work could be done so well not even two and a half decades after the birth of cognizable popular cinema. It holds up today (with some cock-ups here and there) and it compares very favorably with movies made up until the mid-1990s--which is natural, since it's more or less the same process.
Star Wars couldn't impress me because I wasn't around in '77. I'm sure it would have at the time.
Carpenter and Cronenberg's movies tend to be pretty shockingly-well put-together in special effects terms, though there's no secret to how you get a guy's head to explode when his face is only visible in the shot for a quarter a second. I will say that I was kind of stunned and baffled by some of the regeneration sequences in Christine--far moreso than anything in The Thing, which is just makeup/animatronics and not mysterious (that great dog acting doesn't count as a special effect). A lot of it is pretty prosaic now that I know how it was done (out-of-sight machines pulling the body of the car inward, run backwards) but it's extremely competent and ingenious work.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2014, 02:35:21 PM
.....
Honorable mention for The Thing.
Oh. that's a good one.
And I think, as Syt mention, Harryhausen is timeless.
At the theater and at the time "Tron," "Jurassic Park" and "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"
"The Invisible Man" as Ide said, is far ahead of its time. The scenes where Claude Rains changes his shirt in the mirror, for instance, had to be filmed four times (all identically) in order to create the illusion. From the same era, I think the lab scene in "Bride of Frankenstein" is among the best.
One of my favorites, when finding out how they did it, is in "The Unknown." Lon Chaney loses his arms in the film; he made his torso appear smaller by simply getting a larger cloak.
Jurassic Park was good and still holds up.
Star Wars with its model ships, light sabres and blaster fire still holds up to this day.
That thing in Poltergeist.
Alien still looks good. For that matter the recent Prometheus, which had major plot issues, is visually stunning.
I think Avatar looks amazing.
The Perfect Storm was kind of a goofy movie, but some of the scenes in it were impressive.
Quote from: Savonarola on June 28, 2014, 03:27:49 PM
At the theater and at the time "Tron," "Jurassic Park" and "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"
"The Invisible Man" as Ide said, is far ahead of its time. The scenes where Claude Rains changes his shirt in the mirror, for instance, had to be filmed four times (all identically) in order to create the illusion.
Yeah, they go through that in one of the special features. It's insanely complex.
B5 effects were generally dreadful, suffering from woefully low budgets. Nevertheless one of the CGI scenes that surprised me the most was when a squadron of Starfuries rotated on their Z axis while tracking a Mimbari fighter squadron, with matching thruster effects and all. I think that was the first time I saw Newtonian physics in action on a sci-fi show.
In a similar vein, I loved Kubrick's Blue Danube scene and 2010's EVA scene (though sound plays a leading role in both, not just visual effects).
Quote from: Iormlund on June 29, 2014, 03:00:03 AM
B5 effects were generally dreadful, suffering from woefully low budgets. Nevertheless one of the CGI scenes that surprised me the most was when a squadron of Starfuries rotated on their Z axis while tracking a Mimbari fighter squadron, with matching thruster effects and all. I think that was the first time I saw Newtonian physics in action on a sci-fi show.
In a similar vein, I loved Kubrick's Blue Danube scene and 2010's EVA scene (though sound plays a leading role in both, not just visual effects).
The thing about B5 is that they were ossum given the budget they had. Having gone through the complete dvd box-set you see how much cgi rendered footage is re-used. It looks really dated now. The old home made Star Wreck stuff was better cgi. I think the problem with cgi is that it is improving so quickly that you can see how much better the newest cgi is.
Jurassic Park blew me away when I was 11 and it still holds up.
The T-1000 for it's time was incredible.
I really loved Peter Jackson's Kong, thought he looked really alive.
The thing about CGI too, is that the "wow" factor is sorta lost. You know they can do everything they imagine with it, so it doesn't surprise you anymore. This is sort of a good thing, since when special effects still manage to wow you it's because of a director putting them to good use (like Gravity), instead of filling the screen with stuff just because they can.
Another effect that impressed me as a kid (I loved the movie to pieces, too) was the glass soldier in Young Sherlock Holmes. If I'm not mistaken that's the first instance of a full-CGI creature in a feature film.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2014, 02:35:21 PM
Another vote for Jurassic Park. No film has matched it for CGI since.
This. Nothing has beaten the T Rex paddock scenes in the rain yet.
QuoteHonorable mention for The Thing.
All those doggies. :(
I always liked the Rohan cavalry charge in LOTR: Return of the King. That's how you use medieval cavalry, baby: like a ten pin bowling ball.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 09:53:03 AM
I always liked the Rohan cavalry charge in LOTR: Return of the King. That's how you use medieval cavalry, baby: like a ten pin bowling ball.
in blocs 20 riders deep? into formed packed infantry?
Why not. Animal welfare wasn't invented yet.
Besides, using the Riders of Rohan to disrupt Sauron's supply lines 20 miles away is bor-ring.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 10:01:33 AM
Why not. Animal welfare wasn't invented yet.
The horses had a keen sense of animal welfare :contract:
But, seriously, apart from the use of armoured meleé Cataphractii and Clibinarii is there any case in history where cavalry charged into formed infantry?
Quote from: Viking on June 29, 2014, 10:06:10 AM
But, seriously, apart from the use of armoured meleé Cataphractii and Clibinarii is there any case in history where cavalry charged into formed infantry?
In "Wellington in the Peninsula" I read about one minor battle in which the British managed to break a French square because one of the horses got shot and plowed into the square.
But yeah, from what I've read either the infantry broke and got slaughtered or the cavalry pulled up short, did some taunting and rode back to their lines.
Forbidden Planet impressed me.
The most impressive effect in LOTR was making the shorties look short. Very few frames in which I even thought about the fact that the Hobbit actors are not 3 feet tall.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2014, 10:09:53 AM
or the cavalry pulled up short, did some taunting and rode back to their lines.
Typical of an army where the cavalry was the traditional playground reserved for the aristocracy.
The transformation scene in American Werewolf in London was extremely impressive for the time.
And although it's impact now has been lessened by endless copying, but the "bullet time" effects in The Matrix were amazing when I first saw them.
Quote from: Barrister on June 29, 2014, 10:24:47 AM
The transformation scene in American Werewolf in London was extremely impressive for the time.
Good one, I remember being impressed.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 10:20:08 AM
Typical of an army where the cavalry was the traditional playground reserved for the aristocracy.
Also typical of conscript peasant cavalry during the Napoleonic and Victorian ages. The historical instances of cavalry beating infantry who stood their ground face to face are few and far between.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 10:01:33 AM
Why not. Animal welfare wasn't invented yet.
Neither were pikes, it would seem.
Quote from: The Brain on June 29, 2014, 10:15:40 AM
Forbidden Planet impressed me.
I watched it last night. It is pretty great. Other than a wobble on the cruiser in flight (even in space) it's nigh-on pristine.
The only
severe effects-related flub is that bizarre failure to cut a second earlier when the film reveals in no uncertain terms that Altaira's wearing not just a flesh-colored bathing suit to simulate nudity, but what looks like a cream cocktail dress. :lol:
Quote from: Viking on June 28, 2014, 02:00:10 PM
The model spaceships from star wars, it still holds up while cgi doesn't.
This. Star Wars, TOT, remains the most influential piece of art/entertainment in my entire life.
Freedom, Empire, racial discrimination, facing overwhelming odds, they are all there.
Quote from: Siege on June 29, 2014, 03:16:43 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 28, 2014, 02:00:10 PM
The model spaceships from star wars, it still holds up while cgi doesn't.
This. Star Wars, TOT, remains the most influential piece of art/entertainment in my entire life.
Freedom, Empire, racial discrimination, facing overwhelming odds, they are all there.
:D
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 09:53:03 AM
I always liked the Rohan cavalry charge in LOTR: Return of the King. That's how you use medieval cavalry, baby: like a ten pin bowling ball.
Hell no. This post just proved to me that you don't know crap about cavalry.
1- Charges against more than 4 ranks deep of spear armed infantry in close rank formation are suicidal, if they hold their position and don't turn and run, of course. The orcs of Mordor had countless ranks of infantry, their only weakness, cavalry wise, the shortish spears, but their mass would have stopped cold that charge.
2- Horses go down if theyr hit anything wiyjth their front legs. The rohirrim horses run over infantry, that now sudedenly are not close packed, hit it them with the horses legs. No go.
3- I forgot my third argument, other than you suck.
An American Werewolf in London
Inception
Sin City (although, really, the whole film is one giant effects shot)
Star Wars original
Star Trek II nebula battle
yeah, the American werewolf in londinon gave me nightmares while I was cuddling under my bunk in a fetal position while waiting for a hizzbollani rocket attack to end.
Good times.
Quote from: Viking on June 29, 2014, 10:06:10 AM
But, seriously, apart from the use of armoured meleé Cataphractii and Clibinarii is there any case in history where cavalry charged into formed infantry?
Lots of times? I thought the Swedes just ran their cavalry over the Russian infantry in prepared defenses at Narva in 1700. The Polish Hussars did it a bunch of times as well.
Quote from: Viking on June 29, 2014, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 09:53:03 AM
I always liked the Rohan cavalry charge in LOTR: Return of the King. That's how you use medieval cavalry, baby: like a ten pin bowling ball.
in blocs 20 riders deep? into formed packed infantry?
Looking at pictures of battles from the early modern period late medieval it does appear that cavalry fought in dense ranks. For instance in the thirty years war you see military formations as large rectangles for both infantry and cavalry.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2014, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 29, 2014, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 09:53:03 AM
I always liked the Rohan cavalry charge in LOTR: Return of the King. That's how you use medieval cavalry, baby: like a ten pin bowling ball.
in blocs 20 riders deep? into formed packed infantry?
Looking at pictures of battles from the early modern period late medieval it does appear that cavalry fought in dense ranks. For instance in the thirty years war you see military formations as large rectangles for both infantry and cavalry.
That's because a cavalry rank occupies as much space as several infantry ranks; it's the rare battle where you can find cavalry documented as being more than 10 ranks deep per line.
And also because a bunch of those pictures are showing Caracole cavalry rather than shock types; rank by rank advance, fire and wheel to reload rather than charge. Caracole formations were normally deeper than shock formations.
Many of them seem to be carrying lances.
Quote from: Siege on June 29, 2014, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 09:53:03 AM
I always liked the Rohan cavalry charge in LOTR: Return of the King. That's how you use medieval cavalry, baby: like a ten pin bowling ball.
Hell no. This post just proved to me that you don't know crap about cavalry.
1- Charges against more than 4 ranks deep of spear armed infantry in close rank formation are suicidal, if they hold their position and don't turn and run, of course. The orcs of Mordor had countless ranks of infantry, their only weakness, cavalry wise, the shortish spears, but their mass would have stopped cold that charge.
2- Horses go down if theyr hit anything wiyjth their front legs. The rohirrim horses run over infantry, that now sudedenly are not close packed, hit it them with the horses legs. No go.
3- I forgot my third argument, other than you suck.
Funny, I don't recall saying I knew crap about cavalry.
Now go sleep off your "To Catch a Predator" wine cooler before you wake up next to another child victim.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 06:35:48 PM
Quote from: Siege on June 29, 2014, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 09:53:03 AM
I always liked the Rohan cavalry charge in LOTR: Return of the King. That's how you use medieval cavalry, baby: like a ten pin bowling ball.
Hell no. This post just proved to me that you don't know crap about cavalry.
1- Charges against more than 4 ranks deep of spear armed infantry in close rank formation are suicidal, if they hold their position and don't turn and run, of course. The orcs of Mordor had countless ranks of infantry, their only weakness, cavalry wise, the shortish spears, but their mass would have stopped cold that charge.
2- Horses go down if theyr hit anything wiyjth their front legs. The rohirrim horses run over infantry, that now sudedenly are not close packed, hit it them with the horses legs. No go.
3- I forgot my third argument, other than you suck.
Funny, I don't recall saying I knew crap about cavalry.
Now go sleep off your "To Catch a Predator" wine cooler before you wake up next to another child victim.
Realk men don't drink wine. we drink BEER.
Quote from: Siege on June 29, 2014, 09:01:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 06:35:48 PM
Quote from: Siege on June 29, 2014, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 09:53:03 AM
I always liked the Rohan cavalry charge in LOTR: Return of the King. That's how you use medieval cavalry, baby: like a ten pin bowling ball.
Hell no. This post just proved to me that you don't know crap about cavalry.
1- Charges against more than 4 ranks deep of spear armed infantry in close rank formation are suicidal, if they hold their position and don't turn and run, of course. The orcs of Mordor had countless ranks of infantry, their only weakness, cavalry wise, the shortish spears, but their mass would have stopped cold that charge.
2- Horses go down if theyr hit anything wiyjth their front legs. The rohirrim horses run over infantry, that now sudedenly are not close packed, hit it them with the horses legs. No go.
3- I forgot my third argument, other than you suck.
Funny, I don't recall saying I knew crap about cavalry.
Now go sleep off your "To Catch a Predator" wine cooler before you wake up next to another child victim.
Realk men don't drink wine. we drink BEER.
The shit you drink ain't even beer.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2014, 06:25:32 PM
Many of them seem to be carrying lances.
I didn't say they were
all Caracolers. :P
Are these images of battles from in and around Poland-Lithuania? Lancers are really rare in western Europe post 1600 or so.
Quote from: Agelastus on June 30, 2014, 12:55:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2014, 06:25:32 PM
Many of them seem to be carrying lances.
I didn't say they were all Caracolers. :P
Are these images of battles from in and around Poland-Lithuania? Lancers are really rare in western Europe post 1600 or so.
I hadn't thought of Polish ones, but I had been thinking of battles of he league of cambrai and the 30 years war. I did look around and found a nice polish one from 1610 though.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FloQ0hgv.jpg&hash=1e118507a96e5c8c38f6474c3f4804ac58335cc8)
Problem is better depictions of battles tend to come around at the same time as the decline of the knight in the West.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqlfkCIA.jpg&hash=cccb51d12b1f6f16ba7dcc7f40df6e1ccbb3cb06)
This is a pretty one from 1510. Battle of Guinegate.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 06:35:48 PM
Funny, I don't recall saying I knew crap about cavalry.
:face:
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2014, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on June 30, 2014, 12:55:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2014, 06:25:32 PM
Many of them seem to be carrying lances.
I didn't say they were all Caracolers. :P
Are these images of battles from in and around Poland-Lithuania? Lancers are really rare in western Europe post 1600 or so.
I hadn't thought of Polish ones, but I had been thinking of battles of he league of cambrai and the 30 years war. I did look around and found a nice polish one from 1610 though.
This is a pretty one from 1510. Battle of Guinegate.
Both pics appear to depict cavalry fighting other masses of cavalry.
Historically, instances of masses of cavalry successfully charging into formed masses of infantry (when the infantry stood its ground) were pretty rare. The physics of the situation are against this working out well for the cavalry.
For one, cavalry of necessity takes up a lot more space than infantry. Each lancer would be facing several enemies on foot.
For another, most horses tend to refuse to impale themselves on pointy sticks for the greater good. They would rather either stop or turn away ... with predictably bad results if the ranks of horsemen are packed tightly together.
The primary impact of a mass charge straight at mass infantry was psychological ... that is, unless discipline and training were good, infantry would tend to run rather than face an avalanche of horseflesh. Running from cavalry is, of course, fatal, as you can't outrun a horse.
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
Could you for one day stop being such a freaking wet blanket about everything? Jeesh.
Or if you wish to confine discussion about stuff we have "practical experience in", I guess we have to abandon the thread entirely - exactly how much "practical experience" do you have of
any "special effects"?
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
And yet Languish also complains when the lawyers cabal goes on at length about legal issues (which of course is one of the areas I do have a lot of practical experience in).
Make up your mind, Languish. :mad:
Quote from: Barrister on June 30, 2014, 02:05:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
And yet Languish also complains when the lawyers cabal goes on at length about legal issues (which of course is one of the areas I do have a lot of practical experience in).
Make up your mind, Languish. :mad:
Next up: lawyers tilting at each other on horseback to decide cases.
"Because this is a hell of a lot more exciting than (even) injunctions".
Maybe we should just talk about space travel. :(
:lol:
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
Could you for one day stop being such a freaking wet blanket about everything? Jeesh.
Or if you wish to confine discussion about stuff we have "practical experience in", I guess we have to abandon the thread entirely - exactly how much "practical experience" do you have of any "special effects"?
I have professional experience creating CGI (mostly with Maya). :ccr
Quote from: Iormlund on June 30, 2014, 02:11:06 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
Could you for one day stop being such a freaking wet blanket about everything? Jeesh.
Or if you wish to confine discussion about stuff we have "practical experience in", I guess we have to abandon the thread entirely - exactly how much "practical experience" do you have of any "special effects"?
I have professional experience creating CGI (mostly with Maya). :ccr
You can stay. So can Katmai. Hell, he *is* a special effect. :P
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
Could you for one day stop being such a freaking wet blanket about everything? Jeesh.
Or if you wish to confine discussion about stuff we have "practical experience in", I guess we have to abandon the thread entirely - exactly how much "practical experience" do you have of any "special effects"?
You realize, of course, that I just copied verbatim another poster's comment? :unsure:
That said, do continue. Tell me how you really feel. :mellow:
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 02:13:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
Could you for one day stop being such a freaking wet blanket about everything? Jeesh.
Or if you wish to confine discussion about stuff we have "practical experience in", I guess we have to abandon the thread entirely - exactly how much "practical experience" do you have of any "special effects"?
You realize, of course, that I just copied verbatim another poster's comment? :unsure:
That said, do continue. Tell me how you really feel. :mellow:
Um, no. Is there any reason why I (or anyone) should know, verbatum, every single sentence ever written by anyone on this site? :lol:
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:19:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 02:13:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
Could you for one day stop being such a freaking wet blanket about everything? Jeesh.
Or if you wish to confine discussion about stuff we have "practical experience in", I guess we have to abandon the thread entirely - exactly how much "practical experience" do you have of any "special effects"?
You realize, of course, that I just copied verbatim another poster's comment? :unsure:
That said, do continue. Tell me how you really feel. :mellow:
Um, no. Is there any reason why I (or anyone) should know, verbatum, every single sentence ever written by anyone on this site? :lol:
No, but it was intended as a joke as the individual who made that comment originally was mocked widely. :)
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2014, 01:45:01 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 06:35:48 PM
Funny, I don't recall saying I knew crap about cavalry.
:face:
Never even owned a horse, of course, of course.
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:19:44 PM
Um, no. Is there any reason why I (or anyone) should know, verbatum, every single sentence ever written by anyone on this site? :lol:
No, but you should be following the Game of Thrones thread because Game of Thrones is awesome.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 30, 2014, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:19:44 PM
Um, no. Is there any reason why I (or anyone) should know, verbatum, every single sentence ever written by anyone on this site? :lol:
No, but you should be following the Game of Thrones thread because Game of Thrones is awesome.
Don't need spoilers. :P
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 01:55:42 PM
Both pics appear to depict cavalry fighting other masses of cavalry.
Historically, instances of masses of cavalry successfully charging into formed masses of infantry (when the infantry stood its ground) were pretty rare. The physics of the situation are against this working out well for the cavalry.
For one, cavalry of necessity takes up a lot more space than infantry. Each lancer would be facing several enemies on foot.
For another, most horses tend to refuse to impale themselves on pointy sticks for the greater good. They would rather either stop or turn away ... with predictably bad results if the ranks of horsemen are packed tightly together.
The primary impact of a mass charge straight at mass infantry was psychological ... that is, unless discipline and training were good, infantry would tend to run rather than face an avalanche of horseflesh. Running from cavalry is, of course, fatal, as you can't outrun a horse.
If you look carefully at the second first picture there are lancers charging what appears to be pike and shot formations. I don't know how smart horses are and if they are willing to charge into a people with pointy sticks. I'm thinking that multiple ranks are there so the they don't turn away, and that the momentum and sheer mass is enough to crash through. I'm also thinking that horses often get killed in the charge and people get thrown from horses quite a bit.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 30, 2014, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:19:44 PM
Um, no. Is there any reason why I (or anyone) should know, verbatum, every single sentence ever written by anyone on this site? :lol:
No, but you should be following the Game of Thrones thread because Game of Thrones is awesome.
I think I might start watching that. I tuned to HBO by mistake late one night last week and there was a cool scene where these dudes were fighting skeletons. Then that short fella strangled a girl, which was a bit unsettling.
Pinkie Pie is the best pony.
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2014, 04:28:18 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 30, 2014, 02:37:13 PM
No, but you should be following the Game of Thrones thread because Game of Thrones is awesome.
I think I might start watching that.
Heh, I'm watching it now. Season 1, Episode 1, paused at the :23 minute mark. :lol:
Spoiler:
[spoiler]enjoy watching Daenerys getting railed.[/spoiler]
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on June 30, 2014, 02:11:06 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Could you guys please stop arguing about something none of you have any kind of practical experience in? Or move it to it's own thread. There is a limit to inane childish nerdery even here. Jeesh.
Could you for one day stop being such a freaking wet blanket about everything? Jeesh.
Or if you wish to confine discussion about stuff we have "practical experience in", I guess we have to abandon the thread entirely - exactly how much "practical experience" do you have of any "special effects"?
I have professional experience creating CGI (mostly with Maya). :ccr
You can stay. So can Katmai. Hell, he *is* a special effect. :P
He means CAD. He's going to put us all out of work.
Quote from: Siege on June 29, 2014, 09:01:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 06:35:48 PM
Quote from: Siege on June 29, 2014, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2014, 09:53:03 AM
I always liked the Rohan cavalry charge in LOTR: Return of the King. That's how you use medieval cavalry, baby: like a ten pin bowling ball.
Hell no. This post just proved to me that you don't know crap about cavalry.
1- Charges against more than 4 ranks deep of spear armed infantry in close rank formation are suicidal, if they hold their position and don't turn and run, of course. The orcs of Mordor had countless ranks of infantry, their only weakness, cavalry wise, the shortish spears, but their mass would have stopped cold that charge.
2- Horses go down if theyr hit anything wiyjth their front legs. The rohirrim horses run over infantry, that now sudedenly are not close packed, hit it them with the horses legs. No go.
3- I forgot my third argument, other than you suck.
Funny, I don't recall saying I knew crap about cavalry.
Now go sleep off your "To Catch a Predator" wine cooler before you wake up next to another child victim.
Realk men don't drink wine. we drink BEER.
Go back in 1277 please.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2014, 03:14:56 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 30, 2014, 01:55:42 PM
Both pics appear to depict cavalry fighting other masses of cavalry.
Historically, instances of masses of cavalry successfully charging into formed masses of infantry (when the infantry stood its ground) were pretty rare. The physics of the situation are against this working out well for the cavalry.
For one, cavalry of necessity takes up a lot more space than infantry. Each lancer would be facing several enemies on foot.
For another, most horses tend to refuse to impale themselves on pointy sticks for the greater good. They would rather either stop or turn away ... with predictably bad results if the ranks of horsemen are packed tightly together.
The primary impact of a mass charge straight at mass infantry was psychological ... that is, unless discipline and training were good, infantry would tend to run rather than face an avalanche of horseflesh. Running from cavalry is, of course, fatal, as you can't outrun a horse.
If you look carefully at the second first picture there are lancers charging what appears to be pike and shot formations. I don't know how smart horses are and if they are willing to charge into a people with pointy sticks. I'm thinking that multiple ranks are there so the they don't turn away, and that the momentum and sheer mass is enough to crash through. I'm also thinking that horses often get killed in the charge and people get thrown from horses quite a bit.
Dude, the guy painting that crap wasn't a soldier, was probably not there, painted several years later based on other people's descriptions,, and if he was there, there is no way he could see all that happening at the same time.