http://news.yahoo.com/australias-top-court-recognises-gender-neutral-sex-category-004428333.html
QuoteAustralia's highest court on Wednesday recognised the existence of a third "non-specific" gender that is neither male nor female, in a landmark ruling campaigners said will help end years of discrimination.
The High Court ruled that not everyone should be forced to identify as a man or woman when dealing with officials, saying some people could legitimately describe themselves as gender neutral.
"The High Court... recognises that a person may be neither male nor female, and so permits the registration of a person's sex as 'non‑specific'," it said in a unanimous judgement.
The decision ended a long legal battle by sexual equality campaigner Norrie to overturn a New South Wales state edict that gender is an inherently "binary" concept involving only men or women.
"I'm overjoyed," the Sydney-based activist said. "It's been a long time from start to end but this has been a great outcome.
"Maybe people will understand now that there's more options than just the binary. So while an individual might be male or female, not all their friends might be and maybe they might be more accepting of that."
The 53-year-old, who uses only a single name, was born male and underwent gender reassignment surgery in 1989 to become a woman.
But the surgery failed to resolve the Scottish-born activist's ambiguity about sexual identity, prompting a push for the recognition of a new, non-traditional gender.
Norrie made global headlines in February 2010 when an application to the NSW Department of Births, Deaths and Marriages accepted that "sex non-specific" could be accepted for Norrie's records.
But soon afterwards the office revoked its decision, saying the certificate was invalid and had been issued in error. At the time, Norrie said the decision felt like being "socially assassinated".
That sparked a series of appeals which resulted in the NSW Court of Appeal recognising Norrie as gender neutral last year, a decision which the High Court backed on Wednesday.
- 'Outdated notions of gender' -
The Human Rights Law Centre, which provided expert testimony in Norrie's case, said the court had "rejected outdated notions of gender" in the decision.
"Sex- and gender-diverse people face problems every day accessing services and facilities that most Australians can use without thinking twice," the centre's litigation expert Anna Brown said.
"It's essential that our legal systems accurately reflect and accommodate the reality of sex and gender diversity that exists in our society. The High Court has taken an enormous leap today in achieving that goal."
Brown said the decision did not mean people could simply identify themselves as "non-specific" and expect legal recognition.
Under the law, only a person who had undergone gender reassignment surgery could nominate themselves as "non-specific" after presenting medical evidence to back up their claims, she said.
Brown added that it remains unclear who gender-neutral people would be able to marry.
"No one has actually looked at that question legally," she said, adding that there were few international precedents for the decision.
In most states across Australia same-sex couples can have civil unions or register their relationships, but the government does not consider them married under national law.
Germany last year passed a law allowing babies born with characteristics of both sexes to be registered as neither male nor female.
Several countries including Australia, Germany and Nepal also allow people to have an X on their passport rather than male or female, while social media giant Facebook recently moved to allow users to choose "other" gender options, such as "transsexual", "intersex" or "androgynous".
Activist group Gender Agenda said the court decision's impact went far beyond the legal system.
"Transgender, gender diverse and intersex people face high levels of stigma, social exclusion and discrimination," group director Samuel Rutherford said.
"To have the highest court in our land say the law recognises the reality of our existence is not only important in a practical way, but paves the way for achieving equality and freedom from discrimination."
The generation that generated the gender agenda has certainly engendered debate.
So, male, female and whatever's trending on Tumblr that day?
There are three genders, Latin had it right all along.
Join me in my fight against the oppressive gender trinary.
:bleeding:
Will they have to build tranny only public bathrooms?
Quote from: DGuller on April 03, 2014, 12:49:49 PM
:bleeding:
Sorry. The Ukrainian language also had it right.
Doesn't this belong in the gay thread?
So is it male, female, and needs mental help?
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
So is it male, female, and needs mental help?
You and Yi are totally going to the wall when the feminist revolution takes over.
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 12:59:29 PM
Doesn't this belong in the gay thread?
I don't think it is about sexuality. :unsure:
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
So is it male, female, and needs mental help?
Apparently you have to have medical records to back up your claim:
Under the law, only a person who had undergone gender reassignment surgery could nominate themselves as "non-specific" after presenting medical evidence to back up their claims, she said.
No one gets to be neutral in the gender wars.
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2014, 01:11:16 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
So is it male, female, and needs mental help?
Apparently you have to have medical records to back up your claim:
Under the law, only a person who had undergone gender reassignment surgery could nominate themselves as "non-specific" after presenting medical evidence to back up their claims, she said.
Wow what a pain in the ass. But then I think it is a bit ridiculous one is legally required to report their gender to officials. Sounds like none of their damn business to me.
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2014, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 12:59:29 PM
Doesn't this belong in the gay thread?
I don't think it is about sexuality. :unsure:
Gender and sexuality are linked, and this third-gender stuff is the same sort of mental illness that makes folks gay.
Quote from: Valmy on April 03, 2014, 01:20:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2014, 01:11:16 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
So is it male, female, and needs mental help?
Apparently you have to have medical records to back up your claim:
Under the law, only a person who had undergone gender reassignment surgery could nominate themselves as "non-specific" after presenting medical evidence to back up their claims, she said.
Wow what a pain in the ass. But then I think it is a bit ridiculous one is legally required to report their gender to officials. Sounds like none of their damn business to me.
So "male", "female", and "none of your damn business" (the "Patty and Selma option")? ;)
Most places get around this by just asking how you want to be addressed. Though I suppose a department that is supposed to record births, deaths and marriages has some legitimate interest in knowing your gender and a lot of other intrusive personal details about you - like you birthdate and if you have any kids.
Quote from: Valmy on April 03, 2014, 01:20:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2014, 01:11:16 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
So is it male, female, and needs mental help?
Apparently you have to have medical records to back up your claim:
Under the law, only a person who had undergone gender reassignment surgery could nominate themselves as "non-specific" after presenting medical evidence to back up their claims, she said.
Wow what a pain in the ass. But then I think it is a bit ridiculous one is legally required to report their gender to officials. Sounds like none of their damn business to me.
Is it also ridiculous that you report your income to officials?
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 01:28:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2014, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 12:59:29 PM
Doesn't this belong in the gay thread?
I don't think it is about sexuality. :unsure:
Gender and sexuality are linked, and this third-gender stuff is the same sort of mental illness that makes folks gay.
No. :(
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 01:29:08 PM
Is it also ridiculous that you report your income to officials?
No. But it would be ridiculous to be legally required report my shoe size to officials.
Quote from: Malthus on April 03, 2014, 01:28:53 PM
Most places get around this by just asking how you want to be addressed. Though I suppose a department that is supposed to record births, deaths and marriages has some legitimate interest in knowing your gender and a lot of other intrusive personal details about you - like you birthdate and if you have any kids.
Well sure. And like 99% of people would happily give up that info but for the minority who have serious issues with either being male or female it seems silly to legally require them to choose or have some elaborate medical documentation.
Quote from: Valmy on April 03, 2014, 01:32:51 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 03, 2014, 01:28:53 PM
Most places get around this by just asking how you want to be addressed. Though I suppose a department that is supposed to record births, deaths and marriages has some legitimate interest in knowing your gender and a lot of other intrusive personal details about you - like you birthdate and if you have any kids.
Well sure. And like 99% of people would happily give up that info but for the minority who have serious issues with either being male or female it seems silly to legally require them to choose or have some elaborate medical documentation.
Prevents identity problems. If you are officially recorded as a "man" in one place but as a "woman" somewhere else, just on your say-so alone, seems to me open for all sorts of abuses and problems.
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2014, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 01:28:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2014, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 12:59:29 PM
Doesn't this belong in the gay thread?
I don't think it is about sexuality. :unsure:
Gender and sexuality are linked, and this third-gender stuff is the same sort of mental illness that makes folks gay.
No. :(
Yes.
Quote from: Valmy on April 03, 2014, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 01:29:08 PM
Is it also ridiculous that you report your income to officials?
No. But it would be ridiculous to be legally required report my shoe size to officials.
Your shoe size is of limited use to society and can be changed.
Quote from: Malthus on April 03, 2014, 01:35:15 PM
Prevents identity problems. If you are officially recorded as a "man" in one place but as a "woman" somewhere else, just on your say-so alone, seems to me open for all sorts of abuses and problems.
Serves the government right for making us fill out so many forms.
You know, most of the time Valmy is pretty sensible, save for his preference for the French over the British. But every once in a while, you realize that he belongs in Texas.
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 02:04:10 PM
You know, most of the time Valmy is pretty sensible, save for his preference for the French over the British. But every once in a while, you realize that he belongs in Texas.
Texas: the state where men are men, women are women, and Valmy is none of your damn business? :P
Since it's kind of on topic, what the hell is this cis shit that's popping up lately.
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 02:04:10 PM
You know, most of the time Valmy is pretty sensible, save for his preference for the French over the British. But every once in a while, you realize that he belongs in Texas.
Please explain to me the sense of forcing somebody to enter a gender if they do not want to. I do not get the vital public interest. I get if they go ahead and enter different genders all over the place, like Malthus suggests, but that is entirely a separate issue.
Quote from: Malthus on April 03, 2014, 02:42:46 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 02:04:10 PM
You know, most of the time Valmy is pretty sensible, save for his preference for the French over the British. But every once in a while, you realize that he belongs in Texas.
Texas: the state where men are men, women are women, and Valmy is none of your damn business? :P
I am male. But I am not one of the people who care about this. If they do care why not just let them leave it blank? Why go through all this bullshit of having to create third genders and have medical documentation and lengthy appeals of court cases that eventually reach a top court? What is sensible about that? Talk about a waste of time.
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 03:41:51 PM
Since it's kind of on topic, what the hell is this cis shit that's popping up lately.
Opposite to trans. So like how you have hetero and homo - not normal and homo. :P
Is this 'neutral' like as a car transmission works, neither forward nor rearward actions?
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 03:41:51 PM
Since it's kind of on topic, what the hell is this cis shit that's popping up lately.
If you have to ask, you must be a cis-y. :P
Male
Female
squeelus
Sounds right.
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2014, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 03:41:51 PM
Since it's kind of on topic, what the hell is this cis shit that's popping up lately.
Opposite to trans. So like how you have hetero and homo - not normal and homo. :P
i see. I blame gender studies students for this :P
Quote from: Malthus on April 03, 2014, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 03:41:51 PM
Since it's kind of on topic, what the hell is this cis shit that's popping up lately.
If you have to ask, you must be a cis-y. :P
dammit, I thought you were over the punning
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 05:01:39 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 03, 2014, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 03:41:51 PM
Since it's kind of on topic, what the hell is this cis shit that's popping up lately.
If you have to ask, you must be a cis-y. :P
dammit, I thought you were over the punning
Never!
Or at least, not until I make BB beat his head into a wall in real life with it. :frusty:
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 05:01:39 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 03, 2014, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 03:41:51 PM
Since it's kind of on topic, what the hell is this cis shit that's popping up lately.
If you have to ask, you must be a cis-y. :P
dammit, I thought you were over the punning
If only. :(
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 05:01:14 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2014, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2014, 03:41:51 PM
Since it's kind of on topic, what the hell is this cis shit that's popping up lately.
Opposite to trans. So like how you have hetero and homo - not normal and homo. :P
i see. I blame gender studies students for this :P
My degree with Psych with minor of art history, so have at them. ^_^
Quote from: Valmy on April 03, 2014, 03:46:57 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 03, 2014, 02:04:10 PM
You know, most of the time Valmy is pretty sensible, save for his preference for the French over the British. But every once in a while, you realize that he belongs in Texas.
Please explain to me the sense of forcing somebody to enter a gender if they do not want to. I do not get the vital public interest. I get if they go ahead and enter different genders all over the place, like Malthus suggests, but that is entirely a separate issue.
If you're asking me as a man, then I would say don't ask me. Ask the universe. They are what they are, and it can't be changed no matter how many homos wish it could be so.
If you're asking me as a god, then I have made them in a certain way, and they don't have the right to tamper with My design.
So how neutral is neutral enough?
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Quote from: Barrister on April 03, 2014, 10:52:40 PM
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
:D
and when their remains -if any- are dug up in a 1000 years by some intrepid archaeologist they'll get labeled as male or female after all.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 04, 2014, 06:06:29 AM
and when their remains -if any- are dug up in a 1000 years by some intrepid archaeologist they'll get labeled as male or female after all.
Such little imagination.
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 07:31:34 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 04, 2014, 06:06:29 AM
and when their remains -if any- are dug up in a 1000 years by some intrepid archaeologist they'll get labeled as male or female after all.
Such little imagination.
such little knowlegde about archaeology.
You are the one interpreting what things will be like 1000 years from now based on your narrow mindset.
Besides the fact that who actually cares about that "issue" you highlighted. :)
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 07:59:07 AM
You are the one interpreting what things will be like 1000 years from now based on your narrow mindset.
Besides the fact that who actually cares about that "issue" you highlighted. :)
Logic and reason trump your mental illness any day. When they dig these retarded up, they're still going to be biologically male or female, no matter how much they wish that they were the other, or neither.
Quote from: Barrister on April 03, 2014, 10:52:40 PM
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
:lol:
Takes on a whole new meaning now.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 04, 2014, 07:51:03 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 07:31:34 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 04, 2014, 06:06:29 AM
and when their remains -if any- are dug up in a 1000 years by some intrepid archaeologist they'll get labeled as male or female after all.
Such little imagination.
such little knowlegde about archaeology.
The article is about gender, not sex. Archaeologists will identify the sex of the remains, not the gender.
Quote from: PDH on April 04, 2014, 08:36:05 AM
The article is about gender, not sex. Archaeologists will identify the sex of the remains, not the gender.
Archaeologists are slaves to the oppressive sex binary.
Quote from: PDH on April 04, 2014, 08:36:05 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 04, 2014, 07:51:03 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 07:31:34 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 04, 2014, 06:06:29 AM
and when their remains -if any- are dug up in a 1000 years by some intrepid archaeologist they'll get labeled as male or female after all.
Such little imagination.
such little knowlegde about archaeology.
The article is about gender, not sex. Archaeologists will identify the sex of the remains, not the gender.
You are forgetting about the lipstick on the skeleton. :P
http://anthro.appstate.edu/sites/anthro.appstate.edu/files/documents/ebooks/gender/toc.html
Quote from: Neil on April 04, 2014, 08:01:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 07:59:07 AM
You are the one interpreting what things will be like 1000 years from now based on your narrow mindset.
Besides the fact that who actually cares about that "issue" you highlighted. :)
Logic and reason trump your mental illness any day. When they dig these retarded up, they're still going to be biologically male or female, no matter how much they wish that they were the other, or neither.
I don't see a mental illness in that. Imagining that the world might be different in 1,000 years from how it is now doesn't seem wrong...nor does it have any impairment on my daily living. :mellow:
In all seriousness, an archaeologist from a 1000 years from now will note morphological changes to the skeleton that shows input of both adolescent/adult testosterone and also adult estrogen. The conclusion would likely be "born male, underwent estrogen therapy for decades" and then there would be attempts (depending on if the cultural records from this time are complete) to assign gender based on cultural factors.
Given that the "Great Collapse" of 2243 CE wiped out much of the data from the 21st century, the gender would be assigned wrongly as the 5th gender.
Quote from: Neil on April 04, 2014, 08:01:22 AM
Logic and reason trump your mental illness any day. When they dig these retarded up, they're still going to be biologically male or female, no matter how much they wish that they were the other, or neither.
I watched part of that "Southern Comfort" documentary that is mostly about women who had had addadictome operations. Some of them looked semi-convincing at first-- they had beards and semi-deep voices. But when you saw them from behind, the bitch hips were a dead giveaway.
Quote from: PDH on April 04, 2014, 08:48:59 AM
Given that the "Great Collapse" of 2243 CE wiped out much of the data from the 21st century, the gender would be assigned wrongly as the 5th gender.
:lol:
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2014, 08:49:03 AM
Quote from: Neil on April 04, 2014, 08:01:22 AM
Logic and reason trump your mental illness any day. When they dig these retarded up, they're still going to be biologically male or female, no matter how much they wish that they were the other, or neither.
I watched part of that "Southern Comfort" documentary that is mostly about women who had had addadictome operations. Some of them looked semi-convincing at first-- they had beards and semi-deep voices. But when you saw them from behind, the bitch hips were a dead giveaway.
Southern Comfort wasn't a documentary.
There are only two genders. Gender and sex are the same.
Quote from: Neil on April 04, 2014, 01:40:01 PM
There are only two genders. Gender and sex are the same.
Why does OED define them to mean different things then?
Quotegender - The state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones)
Quotesex - Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions
Neil has his own dictionary.
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 03:49:02 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 04, 2014, 01:40:01 PM
There are only two genders. Gender and sex are the same.
Why does OED define them to mean different things then?
Quotegender - The state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones)
Quotesex - Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions
Pressure from the gay lobby? Who knows? Gays are terrible.
^_^
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 08:46:46 AM
Quote from: Neil on April 04, 2014, 08:01:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 07:59:07 AM
You are the one interpreting what things will be like 1000 years from now based on your narrow mindset.
Besides the fact that who actually cares about that "issue" you highlighted. :)
Logic and reason trump your mental illness any day. When they dig these retarded up, they're still going to be biologically male or female, no matter how much they wish that they were the other, or neither.
I seriously doubt there will be gays in 1000 years.
I don't see a mental illness in that. Imagining that the world might be different in 1,000 years from how it is now doesn't seem wrong...nor does it have any impairment on my daily living. :mellow:
Quote from: Razgovory on April 04, 2014, 04:13:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 08:46:46 AM
Quote from: Neil on April 04, 2014, 08:01:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2014, 07:59:07 AM
You are the one interpreting what things will be like 1000 years from now based on your narrow mindset.
Besides the fact that who actually cares about that "issue" you highlighted. :)
Logic and reason trump your mental illness any day. When they dig these retarded up, they're still going to be biologically male or female, no matter how much they wish that they were the other, or neither.
I seriously doubt there will be gays in 1000 years.
I don't see a mental illness in that. Imagining that the world might be different in 1,000 years from how it is now doesn't seem wrong...nor does it have any impairment on my daily living. :mellow:
Who knows? Besides, despite what Neil says, additional gender has little to do with homosexuality (apart from the big tent umbrella).
Quote from: Razgovory on April 04, 2014, 04:13:58 PM
I seriously doubt there will be gays in 1000 years.
Bet you a billion dollars you're wrong.
Raz is right, given the certainty of human extinction before then.
Dolphins can be gay too.
Dolphins will die.
Nah, zombies don't swim.