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Vox populi.

The word doesn't offend me at all.

It adds panache and style to any sentence.

Now you're just fucking with me.

Hey Seedy, is this a temporary moratorium on my use of this specific slur?

The poll sucks. None of the options describes my opinion.

When I was in Middle School on the South Side, I once asked a class with a lot of my African-American friends what was so wrong with it, as most of my ancestors were never slave owners.  Made the mistake of using the actual word.  Will never forget everyone's faces, wasn't suspended only because they knew it was an honest question. Haven't said it since then. 

You can use it for ironic impact, but only if your real name is Samuel Clemens.

Any one else using it, whether "black" or "white" or anything in between or beyond, is making themselves sound like an asshat, whether they realize it or not.

Yeah, I don`t know if I`d say it can never be used in an ironic fashion for humour, but pretty much every time someone has tried to use it in that fashion they have failed...   :(

Quote from: Barrister on June 06, 2009, 05:53:01 PM
Yeah, I don`t know if I`d say it can never be used in an ironic fashion for humour, but pretty much every time someone has tried to use it in that fashion they have failed...   :(

baldwin in full metal jacket. I rest my case your honour. -_-

Quote from: grumbler on June 06, 2009, 05:51:36 PM
You can use it for ironic impact, but only if your real name is Samuel Clemens.

Any one else using it, whether "black" or "white" or anything in between or beyond, is making themselves sound like an asshat, whether they realize it or not.

What if you are quoting someone?

I talk like a Bolivian sailor in an Chilean whorehouse.

Quote from: Ed Anger on June 06, 2009, 06:30:18 PM
I talk like a Bolivian sailor in an Chilean whorehouse.

In Spanish?

Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 06, 2009, 06:35:08 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on June 06, 2009, 06:30:18 PM
I talk like a Bolivian sailor in an Chilean whorehouse.

In Spanish?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freactiondynamics.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F04%2Ffacepalm.gif&hash=f421a2d666268dcacffa931ece084cd7ea9b3ab0)

Dude, it's a joke. Why do you have to act so serious all the time?

Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 06, 2009, 06:39:01 PM
Dude, it's a joke. Why do you have to act so serious all the time?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg8.imageshack.us%2Fimg8%2F196%2Ffacepalmimpliedi.jpg&hash=135cea6e5f1956434a0dd7f0296bbe9ac3bd3d71)

nice demotivator.

Just so we're all clear..


Any use of nigger is okay as long as its associated with Tim, right?

Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on June 06, 2009, 06:43:41 PM
nice demotivator.

When I need to stare at somebody, I'll use that.

Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2009, 06:18:43 PM
What if you are quoting someone?

Unless you are quoting Sam Clemens, you are quoting an asshat.  Nothing wrong with that.

I wouldn't use it.  I don't think it's possible to use it in an ironic sense really.  Maybe one day it will be.

Quote from: grumbler on June 06, 2009, 05:51:36 PM
You can use it for ironic impact, but only if your real name is Samuel Clemens.

Any one else using it, whether "black" or "white" or anything in between or beyond, is making themselves sound like an asshat, whether they realize it or not.

This.

It doesn't bother me on the internet, but I have called out people in RL for using it.

Poll options suck.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 06, 2009, 06:50:29 PM
I wouldn't use it.  I don't think it's possible to use it in an ironic sense really.  Maybe one day it will be.

You need to change avatars.  I keep confusing you with that fascist guy.

Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2009, 08:40:42 PM
You need to change avatars.  I keep confusing you with that fascist guy.

Which fascist guy? :huh:

Barristerboy

Quote from: Jaron on June 06, 2009, 10:05:04 PM
Barristerboy

I think Fascists are too amoral, socialist and undemocratic for BB's taste.

Is niggard still ok to use?

Quote from: Syt on June 07, 2009, 01:15:59 AM
Is niggard still ok to use?

As long as you realize it has the same connotation.

In Sweden some bright folks have decided to try to claim the word blatte for the good side. Blatte is an offensive term for non-European immigrant typically of ME origin. It's not a nice word so when I see it in big letters on a sign or something I just groan.

I use the word myself in select company for making jokes etc. In fact I have done so on this very board. Or its ancestor.

Quote from: sbr on June 07, 2009, 01:55:19 AM

Quote from: Syt on June 07, 2009, 01:15:59 AM
Is niggard still ok to use?

As long as you realize it has the same connotation.

In all circles?

I certainly wouldn't use it in real life communication. I think the "trickiness" associated with the word and its proper use comes from the fact that there is a self-depreciating/"trashy" sub-culture within the black community that also uses it, which probably confuses the outsiders - it's similar to certain queens using the word "faggot" or "fag" in the same way. This is obviously an attempt to reclaim the word and thus can be empowering - but has the side effect of making it seemingly acceptable in some contexts.

Minorities with no such subcultures do not seem to have this problem (e.g. Jews - noone really considers the use of the word "kike" funny or appropriate - it's just a slur).

How is it that sometimes Martinus shows up with cogent analysis*?


*the caveat being that I'm drunk off my ass after a night on the town and possibly...nay likely, no longer the best judge of anything

Quote from: garbon on June 07, 2009, 04:18:45 AM
How is it that sometimes Martinus shows up with cogent analysis*?


*the caveat being that I'm drunk off my ass after a night on the town and possibly...nay likely, no longer the best judge of anything

I don't know which word to choose when addressing you. :(

Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2009, 04:33:19 PM
The poll sucks. None of the options describes my opinion.

Which is: "the word should only be used when it positively describes gays"

Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2009, 04:33:19 PM
The poll sucks. None of the options describes my opinion.

We're not going to start adding a 'has nothing to do with gays;  who gives a fuck?' option to every poll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RvRdF2YRNc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RvRdF2YRNc)

Quote from: Neil on June 07, 2009, 07:43:14 AM

Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2009, 04:33:19 PM
The poll sucks. None of the options describes my opinion.

We're not going to start adding a 'has nothing to do with gays;  who gives a fuck?' option to every poll.

:lol:

Only to be used when mocking gangsta.
And never with a black person present.

Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2009, 03:43:00 AM
I certainly wouldn't use it in real life communication. I think the "trickiness" associated with the word and its proper use comes from the fact that there is a self-depreciating/"trashy" sub-culture within the black community that also uses it, which probably confuses the outsiders - it's similar to certain queens using the word "faggot" or "fag" in the same way. This is obviously an attempt to reclaim the word and thus can be empowering - but has the side effect of making it seemingly acceptable in some contexts.

I don't think this captures the difficulty.  It's one of those words that we've become wired to not say.  I find it physically difficult to say, 'fag', 'fuck' and the rest trip off my tongue.  This is like 'cunt' but even more offensive.  And my response to it is like I think people 30 or 40 years old saying 'cunt'.  It's become a swear word.

Although fag in this country isn't that bad.  We've our own perjorative terms for gays that have, more or less, been reclaimed (because gays used them from the start), while fag's a very recent import.  It's only really been around for about 3-4 years and people use it ironically a lot.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 01:37:49 PM
I don't think this captures the difficulty.  It's one of those words that we've become wired to not say.  I find it physically difficult to say, 'fag', 'fuck' and the rest trip off my tongue.  This is like 'cunt' but even more offensive.  And my response to it is like I think people 30 or 40 years old saying 'cunt'.  It's become a swear word.

I say cunt all the time. :Embarrass:

Quote from: garbon on June 07, 2009, 01:44:00 PMI say cunt all the time. :Embarrass:

Yeah I'm pretty liberal with it too, but I think people more than 20 years older than us are very different.

I had a girlfriend in the olden days who hated anyone using the word "Cunt."  Of course, when she was driving she used it repeatedly, loudly, with gestures toward female drivers.

She took a dim view of my pointing out the dichotomy of her actions...

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 01:55:34 PM

Quote from: garbon on June 07, 2009, 01:44:00 PMI say cunt all the time. :Embarrass:

Yeah I'm pretty liberal with it too, but I think people more than 20 years older than us are very different.

My wife isn't 20 years older than you but she takes an incredibly dim view of that word.

Quote from: Neil on June 07, 2009, 07:43:14 AM

Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2009, 04:33:19 PM
The poll sucks. None of the options describes my opinion.

We're not going to start adding a 'has nothing to do with gays;  who gives a fuck?' option to every poll.

Alright, bitch. That was funny.  :lol:

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 01:37:49 PM

Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2009, 03:43:00 AM
I certainly wouldn't use it in real life communication. I think the "trickiness" associated with the word and its proper use comes from the fact that there is a self-depreciating/"trashy" sub-culture within the black community that also uses it, which probably confuses the outsiders - it's similar to certain queens using the word "faggot" or "fag" in the same way. This is obviously an attempt to reclaim the word and thus can be empowering - but has the side effect of making it seemingly acceptable in some contexts.

I don't think this captures the difficulty.  It's one of those words that we've become wired to not say.  I find it physically difficult to say, 'fag', 'fuck' and the rest trip off my tongue.  This is like 'cunt' but even more offensive.  And my response to it is like I think people 30 or 40 years old saying 'cunt'.  It's become a swear word.

Although fag in this country isn't that bad.  We've our own perjorative terms for gays that have, more or less, been reclaimed (because gays used them from the start), while fag's a very recent import.  It's only really been around for about 3-4 years and people use it ironically a lot.

Yeah, consider what I said about "fag" to be applicable to the US, rather than the UK. In the UK, the similar word would be "queer" or "fairy".

Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2009, 02:14:13 PMIn the UK, the similar word would be "queer" or "fairy".

No they wouldn't.  I don't think there is an equivalent word, as I said.  All British words for gays have either become common currency ('bugger') or have been used by gays from the start ('poof', 'queer' and so on).

QuoteMy wife isn't 20 years older than you but she takes an incredibly dim view of that word.

Yeah absolutely, it's not just older people though I think it's more pronounced in that generation.  I mean it's been used on TV a couple of times now. It's become less offensive over the last 5-10 years.  From something you never hear to something you very rarely hear.

But what I'm trying to demonstrate is that certainly in my case this isn't a case of self-censorship or political correctness gone mad.  It's a word that I think is in my brain in the same place with swear words.  It's something you just don't say and it's not because just because it's offensive and it doesn't depend on the company for me and many other people I think.

The other interesting thing is I can't think of a similar word.  This is a racially perjorative term, I believe from the American south, that's more or less gone global and is offensive in languages and cultures were it wasn't a  common phrase.  That strikes me as unique.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 01:55:34 PM

Quote from: garbon on June 07, 2009, 01:44:00 PMI say cunt all the time. :Embarrass:

Yeah I'm pretty liberal with it too, but I think people more than 20 years older than us are very different.

A lot of girls I know will let you use any word but that, you use that word and they'll rip you a new one.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 07, 2009, 02:21:07 PMA lot of girls I know will let you use any word but that, you use that word and they'll rip you a new one.

I know a couple of girls who are the opposite.  They find it very annoying that an offensive word for female genitalia is one of the most offensive words in the English language.

I'll come back to this in a few days.  I'm reading a book on linguistics at the minute and it has a chapter on why certain words are offensive. 

I'll throw another absolutely unmentionable word out there - squaw.

It probably doesn't come up for most of you but trust me - you call a female Indian that word you're pretty much asking for a fight right there.  It's right up there with cunt or nigger in pure offensiveness.

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 02:29:42 PM
I'll throw another absolutely unmentionable word out there - squaw.

It probably doesn't come up for most of you but trust me - you call a female Indian that word you're pretty much asking for a fight right there.  It's right up there with cunt or nigger in pure offensiveness.

Did whites originate the word?

lol squaw.

I don't think I've ever spoken to one before, but good to know.

Isn't it funny that white people made up nigger to put black people down for centuries and now that black people use it, they're like GASP! You shouldn't say that word!

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 07, 2009, 02:31:27 PM

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 02:29:42 PM
I'll throw another absolutely unmentionable word out there - squaw.

It probably doesn't come up for most of you but trust me - you call a female Indian that word you're pretty much asking for a fight right there.  It's right up there with cunt or nigger in pure offensiveness.

Did whites originate the word?

What does that have to do with anything?

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 03:06:10 PM
What does that have to do with anything?

:lmfao:

So should I take it it's a feminist thing and they'll get just as angry at male Indians who use the term?

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 07, 2009, 03:40:44 PM

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 03:06:10 PM
What does that have to do with anything?

:lmfao:

So should I take it it's a feminist thing and they'll get just as angry at male Indians who use the term?

Female indians hate male indians.  It's impossible to tell.

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 02:29:42 PM
I'll throw another absolutely unmentionable word out there - squaw.

It probably doesn't come up for most of you but trust me - you call a female Indian that word you're pretty much asking for a fight right there.  It's right up there with cunt or nigger in pure offensiveness.

What's wrong with "cunt"? I love it when a girl uses that word haha! It's stupid to get all uptight over calling their vagina a "cunt" - it's a 4 letter word for their genitals, much like "dick" or "cock" are for a penis (neither of which is offensive, IMO). I'm quite uncaring with swearing, mind. I just see those words as expressive/emotive.

Anyway, on-topic... if someone was to called me some racial slur I'd probably just laugh. It has no meaning to me. How the hell is "honkey" offensive, anyway!?

Quote from: Palisadoes on June 07, 2009, 09:30:19 PM
What's wrong with "cunt"? I love it when a girl uses that word haha! It's stupid to get all uptight over calling their vagina a "cunt" - it's a 4 letter word for their genitals, much like "dick" or "cock" are for a penis (neither of which is offensive, IMO). I'm quite uncaring with swearing, mind. I just see those words as expressive/emotive.

Anyway, on-topic... if someone was to called me some racial slur I'd probably just laugh. It has no meaning to me. How the hell is "honkey" offensive, anyway!?

You can argue all you want - the fact is that a lot of people feel very, very offended if you call them certain words.  Most women I know will feel deeply offended if you call them a cunt.  Most blacks will feel deeply insulted if you call them a nigger.

You can argue the whys of this feeling all day long - but it exists.  The fact there's no male equivalent to "cunt" doesn't mean cunt isn't highly offensive.

Quote from: DisturbedPervert on June 07, 2009, 02:48:40 PM
lol squaw.

I don't think I've ever spoken to one before, but good to know.

You know, now that I think of it.  I've never met an Indian.  At least not the Tee-pee Type.

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 09:34:23 PM

Quote from: Palisadoes on June 07, 2009, 09:30:19 PM
What's wrong with "cunt"? I love it when a girl uses that word haha! It's stupid to get all uptight over calling their vagina a "cunt" - it's a 4 letter word for their genitals, much like "dick" or "cock" are for a penis (neither of which is offensive, IMO). I'm quite uncaring with swearing, mind. I just see those words as expressive/emotive.

Anyway, on-topic... if someone was to called me some racial slur I'd probably just laugh. It has no meaning to me. How the hell is "honkey" offensive, anyway!?

You can argue all you want - the fact is that a lot of people feel very, very offended if you call them certain words.  Most women I know will feel deeply offended if you call them a cunt.  Most blacks will feel deeply insulted if you call them a nigger.

You can argue the whys of this feeling all day long - but it exists.  The fact there's no male equivalent to "cunt" doesn't mean cunt isn't highly offensive.

I wasn't saying that it doesn't exist, more that I think it's stupid that it does exist.

To the OP.

I kinda do, well a less insulting french equivalent my family uses.

I wouldn't say Nigger, only out of fear of getting stabbed in the face.

Quote from: Razgovory on June 07, 2009, 09:39:29 PM

Quote from: DisturbedPervert on June 07, 2009, 02:48:40 PM
lol squaw.

I don't think I've ever spoken to one before, but good to know.

You know, now that I think of it.  I've never met an Indian.  At least not the Tee-pee Type.

You and I live very different lives.  I meet Indians (by the way - preferred term is Native or First Nations) on a daily basis.

Quote from: Razgovory on June 07, 2009, 09:39:29 PM
You know, now that I think of it.  I've never met an Indian.  At least not the Tee-pee Type.

I boozed it up one time in a DC titty bar with an Indian from California who was in town to lobby on casino stuff.

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 09:45:54 PM
(by the way - preferred term is Native or First Nations)

The Indians didn't use to be that finicky.

But yeah, as a prosecutor, you get to meet Indians the way CdM got to meet black people as a cop in Baltimore.  Some races are inherently criminal.

Quote from: Neil on June 07, 2009, 09:52:11 PM

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 09:45:54 PM
(by the way - preferred term is Native or First Nations)

The Indians didn't use to be that finicky.

But yeah, as a prosecutor, you get to meet Indians the way CdM got to meet black people as a cop in Baltimore.  Some races are inherently criminal.

:rolleyes:

They said the same thing about the Ukrainians, or the Irish, once upon a time.

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 09:57:48 PM

Quote from: Neil on June 07, 2009, 09:52:11 PM

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 09:45:54 PM
(by the way - preferred term is Native or First Nations)

The Indians didn't use to be that finicky.

But yeah, as a prosecutor, you get to meet Indians the way CdM got to meet black people as a cop in Baltimore.  Some races are inherently criminal.

:rolleyes:

They said the same thing about the Ukrainians, or the Irish, once upon a time.

It is noticeable that in certain cultures crime does seem more prevalent. Indeed in the USA if the crime statistics for African-Americans were taken out of the nationwide statistics then America would have a significantly lower crime rate (about the same as western and northern European countries, IIRC).

There are many issues as to why this might be (socio-economic opportunites being perhaps the largest), but Neil is quite right in his statement that certain groups of people do adhere to a life of crime more so than some other groups of people.

Quote from: Palisadoes on June 07, 2009, 09:30:19 PM
What's wrong with "cunt"? I love it when a girl uses that word haha! It's stupid to get all uptight over calling their vagina a "cunt" - it's a 4 letter word for their genitals, much like "dick" or "cock" are for a penis (neither of which is offensive, IMO). I'm quite uncaring with swearing, mind. I just see those words as expressive/emotive.

Actually it's biological.  We're hardwired to find certain words offensive - though that changes from culture to culture (though all cultures seem interested in different emphasises on excretion, copulation and the divine).

In our brain there's an older brain, it's called the basal ganglia, that we sort of evolved out of.  But it regulates certain movements, emotion and learning.  It's also linked to swearing.  There's two big things that suggest this.  One is the case of a man who had a stroke that left most of his brain undamaged.  But it damaged a part of the basal ganglia.  As a result of this while he was able to converse perfectly well in fluent grammatical sentences he couldn't swear.  He couldn't even complete a swear word when it was started.  Fu....

The other link is Tourette's Syndrome.  Which is at base hereditary abnormalities in the basal ganglia.  Hence the tics that arise with it.  It's most famous for swearing though and, according to Steven Pinker, the following words are from American Tourette's patients are most often used from most to least frequent:
fuck, shit, cunt, motherfucker, prick, dick, cocksucker, nigger, cockey, bitch, pregnant-mother, bastard, tits, whore, doody, penis, queer, pussy, coitus, cock, ass, bowel movement, fangu (fuck in Italian), homosexual, screw, fag, faggot, schmuck, blow me, wop
Now these are often part of longer sentences and there are reports of deaf Tourette's patients signing 'fuck'.

Steven Pinker suggests that one of the roles of the basal ganglia is to designate certain thoughts and desires as unthinkable - taboo - in order to keep them in check.

Historically 'cunt's always been a bad word.  But most early swear words were to do with religion and many still are in more religious cultures.  We also used to have disease swear words, 'a pox on both your houses'.  Pinker also points out that in terms of our swearing about excrement we're pretty logical; it matches the physical order.  Shit's more offensive than piss which is more offensive than fart which is more offensive than snot which is worse than spit, which isn't that bad.

But, apparently, linguistics have found, across language groups and across cultures that 'bodily secretions' prompt disgust.  Common swear words internationally involve vomit, sweat, spittle, blood, pus and 'sexual fluids'.  Shit is universal.

We put certain words, in our brain, in a place that's taboo - this is, in Pinker's theory, short-circuited when we experience anger because rage is linked to the primitive basal ganglia - now the reason that 'cunt' is in there is because we don't live in a world in which words have meanings separate to them.  The meanings of a word are made up of repeated usages in different ways.  We live within linguistic communities where 'cunt' doesn't just mean vagina but a whole series of assumptions and perjorative senses.  Similarly 'nigger' isn't just another word for a black person and, in our linguistic framework, it can't be.  Maybe in a few hundred year's Huck Finn will need notes like Shakespeare to explain the rude words ('I bite my thumb at you!') but right now it doesn't.

Incidentally with the girls I know and the friends I have 'cunt' isn't that unacceptable (it's still for things past 'fuck') because we have different set of standards and connotations than someone who has never used it, never heard but knows it's there.  A word I find very offensive about women is 'gash', which I can't stand and I don't think I'd ever say.

We live within a linguistic culture, we live within a language that is out of our control and which isn't a sort-of Platonic form of pure meaning to which we can aspire.  That's the joy of language and the fun you have with it.  As Roland Barthes puts it, it's the jouissance of the text.  Which comes from jouir, and I'm sure Francophones can explain better, means to enjoy, to experience joy, to ejaculate, to orgasm and something else.

Which reminds me of an offensive but brilliant Thom Gunn epigraph called 'Barren Leaves':

Quote
Spontaneous overflows of powerful feeling:
Wet dreams, wet dreams, in libraries congealing.

Quote from: Palisadoes on June 07, 2009, 10:01:44 PM
It is noticeable that in certain cultures crime does seem more prevalent.

Indeed.  Maoris in New Zealand are fiercely criminal.  The native population in Canada and Greenland is.  In America it's African-Americans though not, you know, African-Americans.  In the UK I think Afro-Carribean males are big part of crime followed by South Asians.  In France it's North Africans.

The common theme seems to be cultures that have to some extent been separate and that have had less economic success and full social integration into wider society.  So I imagine in Morocco itself it's the Berbers who are the problem.

[Long post by Sheilbh]
Interesting. Could the specific words be hardwired due to the language which we have learnt by a certain age? I.e. if I was born and raised in France (with British parents, though they always spoke French around me) would I be hardwired with French language swear words, and not English language ones? Moreover, is it possible to indoctrinate what words are hardwired as offensive/anti-social?

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 10:19:03 PMIndeed.  Maoris in New Zealand are fiercely criminal.  The native population in Canada and Greenland is.  In America it's African-Americans though not, you know, African-Americans.  In the UK I think Afro-Carribean males are big part of crime followed by South Asians.  In France it's North Africans.

The common theme seems to be cultures that have to some extent been separate and that have had less economic success and full social integration into wider society.  So I imagine in Morocco itself it's the Berbers who are the problem.

That's my theory. Those from different backgrounds who haven't adapted and assimilated into their new "host" society are inherently going to be at an immediate social (and subsequently economic) disadvantage, which would inevitably open up new doors (such as going down the path of crime).

Interesting stuff Shelf.

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 09:57:48 PM

Quote from: Neil on June 07, 2009, 09:52:11 PM

Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 09:45:54 PM
(by the way - preferred term is Native or First Nations)

The Indians didn't use to be that finicky.

But yeah, as a prosecutor, you get to meet Indians the way CdM got to meet black people as a cop in Baltimore.  Some races are inherently criminal.

:rolleyes:

They said the same thing about the Ukrainians, or the Irish, once upon a time.

And they were right.

Quote from: Palisadoes on June 07, 2009, 10:20:55 PM
Interesting. Could the specific words be hardwired due to the language which we have learnt by a certain age? I.e. if I was born and raised in France (with British parents, though they always spoke French around me) would I be hardwired with French language swear words, and not English language ones? Moreover, is it possible to indoctrinate what words are hardwired as offensive?

I don't know.  My understanding is that linguistically we're pretty set by the time we're about 17-18 and after that no matter what we do we're stuck with the dodgy foreign accent and so on.  So that could be the case.  I don't know what you mean by the second question.

Another thing is how certain taboos change.  So while bodily excretions are a human constant, our first swear words seem to do with religion.  G.K. Chesterton said that blasphemy couldn't exist without belief and if you didn't believe him try and blaspheme Odin.  I believe in Catholic cultures many religious words got turned into blasphemous ones by linking them to sex.  I understand in some languages 'chalice' and 'tabernacle' for example are euphemisms.

In Shakespeare's time when there's a high mortality rate and when there's a lot of disease then 'pox' becomes taboo.  Certain disease just aren't mentioned except in the worst sort of curse.  So what it suggests, in the context of 'nigger' at least, is that it's offensive because racism still exists and we're uncomfortable with our history and unhappy to be perceived as racist so the word is taboo.  I don't know what other people would think, though.

All this stuff is from Steven Pinker's 'The Stuff of Thought' which I can't recommend enough.  It's very good.

Yeah that does seem very interesting. I might check that book out.

The second question was just trying to summarise the first one (hence "moreover") incase you didn;t get what I was saying.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 10:19:03 PM

Quote from: Palisadoes on June 07, 2009, 10:01:44 PM
It is noticeable that in certain cultures crime does seem more prevalent.

Indeed.  Maoris in New Zealand are fiercely criminal.  The native population in Canada and Greenland is.  In America it's African-Americans though not, you know, African-Americans.  In the UK I think Afro-Carribean males are big part of crime followed by South Asians.  In France it's North Africans.

The common theme seems to be cultures that have to some extent been separate and that have had less economic success and full social integration into wider society.  So I imagine in Morocco itself it's the Berbers who are the problem.

I dunno if that alone explains it - there are groups which are economically unsuccessful without having the reputation for criminality.

Here, it is Jamacans that are the problem.

My opinion is that the root cause is a culture that in effect glorifies the traits that make for criminality: machismo combined with lack of respect for social authorities; a sense of grevance against society at large (real or perceived); a cultural code of silence concerning violence and other offences; extreme materialsim combined with a sense that hard work is for suckers.

Some cultures for whatever reason simply have these traits in a greater degree than others.

While reading up on the Huns at Wikipedia, I came across something for all Slargoses out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality

The gratuitous use of the 'N' word in this thread deeply offends me.  :mad:

Send me 10$, maybe that'll make you feel better.

Quote from: Grey Fox on June 19, 2009, 07:06:29 AM
Send me 10$, maybe that'll make you feel better.

Nah, exchanging currency is too much effort.  :(

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 10:16:28 PM
... there are reports of deaf Tourette's patients signing 'fuck'.

I LOLed at that one. :blush:

Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2009, 03:43:00 AM
it's similar to certain queens using the word "faggot" or "fag" in the same way.

Yeah I don't like that at all.

Anyway I simply don't use ethnic or racial slurs nor do I like hearing others do so.

Quote from: Lucidor on June 19, 2009, 06:36:07 AM
While reading up on the Huns at Wikipedia, I came across something for all Slargoses out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality

Doesn't seem very complete.  There isn't even a section for Arabs.

Quote from: DisturbedPervert on June 19, 2009, 08:47:07 AM

Quote from: Lucidor on June 19, 2009, 06:36:07 AM
While reading up on the Huns at Wikipedia, I came across something for all Slargoses out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality)

Doesn't seem very complete.  There isn't even a section for Arabs.

It's a wiki, you know what to do... :D Seriously, it's more interesting to know the etymiology of Jerry, than ten slurs for each nationality.

Quote
Incidentally with the girls I know and the friends I have 'cunt' isn't that unacceptable (it's still for things past 'fuck') because we have different set of standards and connotations than someone who has never used it, never heard but knows it's there.  A word I find very offensive about women is 'gash', which I can't stand and I don't think I'd ever say.

What does gash exactly mean, connotate?

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 10:16:28 PM
Actually it's biological.  We're hardwired to find certain words offensive - though that changes from culture to culture (though all cultures seem interested in different emphasises on excretion, copulation and the divine).

---

Lots of cool stuff in that post, Sheilbh -- thank you!  I started out in this thread looking to reply to Grumbler's assertion that anybody that uses the word "Nigger" is an asshat by saying that I only use that word (or "cunt," or a wide variety of other profanity) specifically to BE an asshat, generally as an un-thought out emotional response to something.  Now I know why.

And now that I learned something today I can go out to the garage & kill brain cells with beer.  Thank you again!

:)

Quote from: Alcibiades on June 19, 2009, 09:50:25 AM

Quote
Incidentally with the girls I know and the friends I have 'cunt' isn't that unacceptable (it's still for things past 'fuck') because we have different set of standards and connotations than someone who has never used it, never heard but knows it's there.  A word I find very offensive about women is 'gash', which I can't stand and I don't think I'd ever say.

What does gash exactly mean, connotate?

i hate doing this, but it's like 'cunt'.  A more violent word for women's genitalia :blush:

QuoteAnd now that I learned something today I can go out to the garage & kill brain cells with beer.  Thank you again!

I'm very glad I can help you just go and drink beer :)

Quote from: Alcibiades on June 19, 2009, 09:50:25 AM
What does gash exactly mean, connotate?

Think hatchet wound.  Which by the way, chicks aren't too fond of either.

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