http://english.pravda.ru/society/family/03-02-2014/126750-europe_homosexuality-0/
QuoteLike Sodom and Gomorrah, Europe to turn into Dead Sea
Many Russians can not understand the things that are currently happening in the Western world. As for social policies in Europe, they have taken the shape of humorless grotesque. Sex minorities attempt to take family values under control with an aim to produce a new generation through the "backdoor." Editor-in-chief of Pravda.Ru, Inna Novikova, talked about with with Finnish journalist Johan Backman.
"Pravda.Ru" has written a lot about the problem that Russian women face in Finland after they married Finnish men, moved abroad and gave birth there. By decision of local authorities, their children would be taken away from them. Does it happen to Finnish families in general?"
"Today's Finland follows the liberal ideology of Western countries, where they aggressively promote anti-child, anti-family and homosexual values. Children are out of fashion today, and this trend can be observed throughout the West."
"Is it promoted as a value of freedom of mankind? Is it fashionable to be gay? And if you're a heterosexual, does it mean that it will be more difficult to make a good career?"
"Yes, it is fashionable to become homosexual. Not to be one, but to become one. Homosexuality today is a choice of profession, a very profitable profession. In the West, and in Finland there is large-scale propaganda of homosexuality being conducted, and it comes from the people, who have made the decision to become professional homosexuals."
"Why are there so many of them?"
"Because they want to get power into their hands."
"Today, they want to destroy traditional family values, and then traditional family in general. They conduct anti-family propaganda opposing heterosexuality and constantly try to justify the rule of homosexual relations. In Finland, there is a newspaper called Helsingin Sanomat, which, incidentally, is strongly an anti-Russian publication. The paper has long pursued aggressive homosexual propaganda. For example, they have recently published an article, in which some scientist from the Helsinki University stated that homosexuality was typical among animals, that it was normal and even beneficial for evolution. Animals are better off when they have a lot of homosexual relations. And the conclusion is: this is true for human beings too ..."
"I spoke with a colleague of mine, who lives in Berlin, where, as in London nobody hides their orientation. She said that "we are all convinced that these are machinations of Islamic fundamentalism, Arab countries "to destroy the European civilization. In the Arab countries, everything is strict when it comes to homosexuality - they stone people to death and cut their heads off for homosexuality."
"What is happening now is nothing but terrorism against normal people. Those propagandizing homosexuality organized a system of political terror against normal people. They lobby for their interests, new laws, and their main goal is to get into power.
"Here in Finland, a person, who was known for his homosexual orientation, could become the president. In other countries, many ministers are homosexuals. The new Minister of National Development of Finland, who is responsible for all state-owned enterprises, is an active and well-known homosexual. Haavisto Pekka successfully ran for president in Finland in 2012. He has a husband, 30 years younger than him, from South America. Words like "husband and wife" are no longer trendy here. They go everywhere together and advertise their relationship. They turned the campaign into a gay parade. Pekka Haavisto said that things like "if you do not vote for me, you are not tolerant, all tolerant people vote for me." Well, of course, every person wants to be tolerant. Can you imagine how strong this psychological pressure is?"
"Are there any classic moral values left in the society?"
"We have no such notion as "untraditional sexual orientation." They consider themselves normal, and all the rest are defective. So, for them, a normal person is someone, who comes out as a homosexual at early childhood. They promote it all for children, so that children could have a right to choose their orientation."
"They also need to edit all textbooks, books, even fairy tales to give all texts a neutral tone. If there is a prince and princess, then they see it as a discrimination of homosexuality. Two princes or two princesses are fine. They promote their goals in a way so that normal people would constantly feel guilty of being intolerant.
"What about famous fairy tale "Cinderella?" There are no two princes there - there is one prince and one Cinderella?"
"They perceive it as discrimination against homosexuals."
"I understand that the process has gone very deep, we know how it ended up in Sodom and Gomorrah. Instead of these wonderful cities, there is now the Dead Sea. What will happen to Europe?"
"The Dead Sea is likely to be the size of Europe, if it all continue."
:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:
Broken clock.
Nice way to encourage Russians to have more babies- Not breeding is gay and Western!!!111
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
It's only hypocritical if they're the ones bashing Russia for it. Generally they aren't.
An excellent "From Our Own Correspondent" on Radio 4 from rural Russia the other day had the correspondent asking Russian hunters about their views on homosexuality while having a enjoying sauna and beating each other lightly with birch twigs :lol:
Quote from: Brazen on February 07, 2014, 10:36:59 AM
An excellent "From Our Own Correspondent" on Radio 4 from rural Russia the other day had the correspondent asking Russian hunters about their views on homosexuality while having a enjoying sauna and beating each other lightly with birch twigs :lol:
It was an interesting piece.
link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25776162
There is nothing paradoxical about it. Russian men get it out of their system in the banyas and saunas, and thus have no need for any of that homosexual stuff.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
Don't you mean "American Fundies"? :hmm:
Did someone hijack cc's account? :D
Quote from: Caliga on February 07, 2014, 11:56:40 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
Don't you mean "American Fundies"? :hmm:
Did someone hijack cc's account? :D
Primarily yes. But American style fundy idiocy can be found on this side of the border as well.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
I don't think the worldwide phenomena of homophobia really syncs up with fundamentalism. Especially in a place like Russia.
Quote from: Brazen on February 07, 2014, 10:36:59 AM
An excellent "From Our Own Correspondent" on Radio 4 from rural Russia the other day had the correspondent asking Russian hunters about their views on homosexuality while having a enjoying sauna and beating each other lightly with birch twigs :lol:
I read the article of that one. It is indeed pretty amusing.
That seems quite normal in the more 'backward' parts of the world really. Vehemently anti-homosexuality....but very much into traditional man-love. Its really big in Afghanistan and Pakistan for instance.
:rolleyes: If you find the Russian sauna experience homoerotic, then it's a sign of your hang-ups much more than it is a sign of contradictions in Russian psyche. I would guess that a sizable majority of Russian men socialize in banyas like that with some regularity, and I don't think that the sizable majority of Russian men have latent homosexual urges. There is enough real stuff to mock the Russians for without having to scratch the bottom of the barrel like this.
They had communism and gave it up. That says everything you need to know about the Russian people.
That it takes the 70 years to admit to making mistakes?
Quote from: DGuller on February 07, 2014, 11:13:27 PM
There is enough real stuff to mock the Russians for without having to scratch the bottom of the barrel like this.
For example, their embrace of the bitter scourge known as accountancy.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
Who is being hypocritical here? Do we not make fun of North American fundies as well?
How this really shows the superiority of North America to Russia is that we allow the debate to take place.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 08, 2014, 02:45:28 AM
How this really shows the superiority of North America to Russia is that we allow the debate to take place.
You mean the fact that there could be a pro-gay counterpoint showing why the article's retarded without the author being thrown in jail for "gay propaganda?"
Quote from: alfred russel on February 07, 2014, 12:06:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
I don't think the worldwide phenomena of homophobia really syncs up with fundamentalism. Especially in a place like Russia.
I dont think the Russian Fundyism is any different than the brand in the US or Canada other than they are Orthodox fundies. If you listen to the Russian Fundies talk about how the religious reasons they hate people, if you ignore the accent, it could be anyone from the US or Canada who also spout such nonsense.
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2014, 02:14:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
Who is being hypocritical here? Do we not make fun of North American fundies as well?
The article. But if you want to feel all defensive about your own personal failures that is your issue.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 02:51:14 PM
I dont think the Russian Fundyism is any different than the brand in the US or Canada other than they are Orthodox fundies. If you listen to the Russian Fundies talk about how the religious reasons they hate people, if you ignore the accent, it could be anyone from the US or Canada who also spout such nonsense.
CC, depending on the source, a majority of Russians aren't even Orthodox. Atheism/agnosticism/general irreligiousness is very widespread in Russia. The support for the homophobic law was more widespread than Orthodox membership, which isn't a fundamentalist religion in any case.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 02:51:14 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 07, 2014, 12:06:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
I don't think the worldwide phenomena of homophobia really syncs up with fundamentalism. Especially in a place like Russia.
I dont think the Russian Fundyism is any different than the brand in the US or Canada other than they are Orthodox fundies. If you listen to the Russian Fundies talk about how the religious reasons they hate people, if you ignore the accent, it could be anyone from the US or Canada who also spout such nonsense.
The problem with your theory is that Russian fundamentalism is largely artificial, and as always political in nature. Russian intolerance is universal across the Russian culture, and unfortunately it cannot be blamed on just Orthodox wackos.
Quote from: DGuller on February 08, 2014, 04:05:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 02:51:14 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 07, 2014, 12:06:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
I don't think the worldwide phenomena of homophobia really syncs up with fundamentalism. Especially in a place like Russia.
I dont think the Russian Fundyism is any different than the brand in the US or Canada other than they are Orthodox fundies. If you listen to the Russian Fundies talk about how the religious reasons they hate people, if you ignore the accent, it could be anyone from the US or Canada who also spout such nonsense.
The problem with your theory is that Russian fundamentalism is largely artificial, and as always political in nature. Russian intolerance is universal across the Russian culture, and unfortunately it cannot be blamed on just Orthodox wackos.
The Russian wackos interviewed on the CBC justified the law on the basis that they trusted Jesus Christ to tell them what was right. They are as bad as any North American Fundies in that regard.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 04:20:06 PM
The Russian wackos interviewed on the CBC justified the law on the basis that they trusted Jesus Christ to tell them what was right. They are as bad as any North American Fundies in that regard.
I'm sure they did, but so what? Religious fundamentalism plays little role, other than a fig leaf, for what we're seeing in Russia.
Quote from: DGuller on February 08, 2014, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 04:20:06 PM
The Russian wackos interviewed on the CBC justified the law on the basis that they trusted Jesus Christ to tell them what was right. They are as bad as any North American Fundies in that regard.
I'm sure they did, but so what? Religious fundamentalism plays little role, other than a fig leaf, for what we're seeing in Russia.
Ok - so if it sounds like religious idiocy we should just ignore that. Gotcha.
In Soviet times Russia was a gay paradise.
Quote from: The Brain on February 08, 2014, 04:24:11 PM
In Soviet times Russia was a gay paradise.
English gay spies thought so as well. :P
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 04:23:33 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 08, 2014, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 04:20:06 PM
The Russian wackos interviewed on the CBC justified the law on the basis that they trusted Jesus Christ to tell them what was right. They are as bad as any North American Fundies in that regard.
I'm sure they did, but so what? Religious fundamentalism plays little role, other than a fig leaf, for what we're seeing in Russia.
Ok - so if it sounds like religious idiocy we should just ignore that. Gotcha.
Now you're just thrashing around because you're by your nature incapable of letting go of an argument. You originally stated that it was enlightened world versus religious wackos. In Russia, that is definitely not the case, the Russians we may consider enlightened are almost as intolerant as the backwards villagers, even if they're atheist and hold Orthodox priests in disdain.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2014, 02:14:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
Who is being hypocritical here? Do we not make fun of North American fundies as well?
The article. But if you want to feel all defensive about your own personal failures that is your issue.
Pravda is being hypocritical? They are practically a tabloid. I am not being defensive I have no fucking idea what you are talking about or who you are accusing here.
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2014, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2014, 02:14:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM
One thing that I find hypocritical is that one can find the same kind of nonsense being spouting by some North American Fundies. Its not a question of Russian backwardness vs Western enlightenment. Its a question of fundy backwardness vs enlightened civilization.
Who is being hypocritical here? Do we not make fun of North American fundies as well?
The article. But if you want to feel all defensive about your own personal failures that is your issue.
Pravda is being hypocritical? They are practically a tabloid. I am not being defensive I have no fucking idea what you are talking about or who you are accusing here.
Yeah, I shouldnt have responded. I knew that was the case and there is little point.
:lol:
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 05:48:50 PM
Yeah, I shouldnt have responded. I knew that was the case and there is little point.
There is little point to making sense and expressing yourself clearly? Fair enough. I will keep that in mind in future.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 05:48:50 PM
Yeah, I shouldnt have responded. I knew that was the case and there is little point.
He has a point. The Russians were homophobic during official atheism, they are still homophobic when they don't have official atheism, and they'd be homophobic if they all converted to Jainism. Dislike of gays is part of Russian culture rather then part of the baggage of a religion. Same thing with their dislike of Jews. Under the Czar Jews were "Christ killers", under the soviets Jews were "rootless cosmopolitans", today they are "Zionist conspirators". Hatred of Jews is independent of other factors.
I think the conspiracy got out of control.
The Elders of Zion identified White Man as the true Enemy of juddenkind, and decide to rise as many barriers between White Man and our juddenself as possible.
This meant raising everybody else, to divert the efforts of the enemy, to force to enemy to fight in a multiple front, making the concentration of forces against us an impossibility. We called this war, The Cultural War, because culture frames the behavior of the combatants. Control the enemy's culture, and you control the enemy. And the triumph in this war will be called multi-culturalism. So we raised the Black, the Native, the Gay, the Immigrant, and in our most masterful move, the Woman, cutting near 50 percent of the Enemy's strength.
We took control of the two more important battlefields in the Cultural War: The mass media and education. The mass media to slowly change the tolerance level of the Enemy in our favor, the educational system to educate the new generations from early childhood to tolerate and accept as normalcy the cultural walls we raised to protect ourselves from the enemy.
But one day, we woke up and realized we were no longer the besieged cultural minority, but that our plan had worked so well that now it was the Enemy who was besieged. Multiculturalism had become a reality, tolerance was a powerful weapon indeed. Now the walls we had raised had become self-aware, in hatred of the Enemy, and started a relentless assault of on everything that was event remotely related to the Enemy.
Problems was Culture is not a weapon system with pin-point accuracy. It is a weapon of mass destruction, and in using culture as a weapon we became its victims as well, and we became indoctrinated and brainwashed as much as the Enemy. Sometimes even more than the Enemy. Therefore we destroyed ourselves, and the only real winners were the Walls themselves, the army we raised to fight the Enemy.
Cool story bro.
I dunno, that's my favorite Siege post ever. :lol:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/us-hypocrisy-over-russias-anti-gay-laws/2014/01/31/3df0baf0-8548-11e3-9dd4-e7278db80d86_story.html
All in all you're just another brick in the Wall
Quote from: Ideologue on February 09, 2014, 05:27:08 PM
I dunno, that's my favorite Siege post ever. :lol:
That post is gold. :D
Quote from: Razgovory on February 09, 2014, 02:58:23 PM
He has a point. The Russians were homophobic during official atheism, they are still homophobic when they don't have official atheism, and they'd be homophobic if they all converted to Jainism. Dislike of gays is part of Russian culture rather then part of the baggage of a religion. Same thing with their dislike of Jews. Under the Czar Jews were "Christ killers", under the soviets Jews were "rootless cosmopolitans", today they are "Zionist conspirators". Hatred of Jews is independent of other factors.
Dislike of gays was a part of almost every culture until very recently.
:( the good old days.
Is navy culture a recent thing then?
Quote from: garbon on February 09, 2014, 08:20:35 PM
Is navy culture a recent thing then?
Don't know.
In Army culture making fun of gays is a form of tolerance.
You don't actively resist what you laugh at.
Quote from: Siege on February 09, 2014, 08:49:13 PM
You don't actively resist what you laugh at.
:mellow: :shutup:
Weird thing about that rant is that Russia's in far more demographic trouble than gay-loving Britain, America, France... :mellow:
Quote from: garbon on February 09, 2014, 08:20:35 PM
Is navy culture a recent thing then?
Faggotry in the navy was an overstated phenomenon.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sewweekly.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FPaulCadmusTheFleetsIn.jpg&hash=9c35ce708214b3867305e918ba426557355f8ab3)
You homos and your art.
Did the navy put in on display?
Speaking of which - how about this number?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw&feature=kp
I'm not clicking a fag link.
Village People - In The Navy
You know, the one helped put together by the Navy?
Why did no-one tell us disco was gay? :o
Quote from: Razgovory on February 09, 2014, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 05:48:50 PM
Yeah, I shouldnt have responded. I knew that was the case and there is little point.
He has a point. The Russians were homophobic during official atheism, they are still homophobic when they don't have official atheism, and they'd be homophobic if they all converted to Jainism. Dislike of gays is part of Russian culture rather then part of the baggage of a religion. Same thing with their dislike of Jews. Under the Czar Jews were "Christ killers", under the soviets Jews were "rootless cosmopolitans", today they are "Zionist conspirators". Hatred of Jews is independent of other factors.
This isn't unique to Russia, and this isn't unique to homophobia or anti-Semitism. Russian society, like many throughout the world, is very ruthless. Strength must be projected at all times and in all ways, even if you know that it's ultimately damaging for you, and weakness is to be picked at. This kind of society is not exactly a fertile ground for tolerance of anything out of the mainstream. What makes it noteworthy in case of Russia is that they are the only society that I'm aware of that hasn't outgrown that mindset as it advanced.
Quote from: DGuller on February 09, 2014, 10:02:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 09, 2014, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2014, 05:48:50 PM
Yeah, I shouldnt have responded. I knew that was the case and there is little point.
He has a point. The Russians were homophobic during official atheism, they are still homophobic when they don't have official atheism, and they'd be homophobic if they all converted to Jainism. Dislike of gays is part of Russian culture rather then part of the baggage of a religion. Same thing with their dislike of Jews. Under the Czar Jews were "Christ killers", under the soviets Jews were "rootless cosmopolitans", today they are "Zionist conspirators". Hatred of Jews is independent of other factors.
This isn't unique to Russia, and this isn't unique to homophobia or anti-Semitism. Russian society, like many throughout the world, is very ruthless. Strength must be projected at all times and in all ways, even if you know that it's ultimately damaging for you, and weakness is to be picked at. This kind of society is not exactly a fertile ground for tolerance of anything out of the mainstream. What makes it noteworthy in case of Russia is that they are the only society that I'm aware of that hasn't outgrown that mindset as it advanced.
But isn't that mindset common to libertarians and gays?
Quote from: Neil on February 09, 2014, 10:14:16 PM
But isn't that mindset common to libertarians and gays?
No.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 09, 2014, 09:49:27 PM
Why did no-one tell us disco was gay? :o
Because it should have been obvious? :P
Quote from: DGuller on February 09, 2014, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 09, 2014, 10:14:16 PM
But isn't that mindset common to libertarians and gays?
No.
Are you sure? I've never known a gay or a libertarian who would avoid attacking a weakness.
Quote from: Neil on February 09, 2014, 11:25:43 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 09, 2014, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 09, 2014, 10:14:16 PM
But isn't that mindset common to libertarians and gays?
No.
Are you sure? I've never known a gay or a libertarian who would avoid attacking a weakness.
Attacking weaknesses? How dull.
That's right up your ally. Cruelty is what you're all about.
Quote from: Neil on February 09, 2014, 11:36:05 PM
That's right up your ally. Cruelty is what you're all about.
I enjoy a bit of sport.
Quote from: Zanza on February 09, 2014, 05:28:43 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/us-hypocrisy-over-russias-anti-gay-laws/2014/01/31/3df0baf0-8548-11e3-9dd4-e7278db80d86_story.html
An excellent example of how the truth can be ignored for the "greater good." I think Yale University law professors know the difference between federal law and state law, but they pretend they don't for the sake of political polemics (i.e. "US hypocrisy" is represented by comparing statements of Obama with laws over which he has no control). The hypocrisy in their article is clear and evident, but they have completely missed on who is the hypocrite.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 09, 2014, 09:13:06 PM
Weird thing about that rant is that Russia's in far more demographic trouble than gay-loving Britain, America, France... :mellow:
Facts never concern Pravda.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 09, 2014, 09:49:27 PM
Why did no-one tell us disco was gay? :o
The 70s were an entire decade of gay.
I was born in the 70s.