Well, it is good.
In fact, I would go as far as to say it is even on first try engaging and damn fun.
Whatever criticism that has been levelled at maps and such, HoI3 more than makes up for. Not only does it look good, it actually plays like a dream too.
I have tried two games. One as the US of A, one as the UK.
Playing the UK as usual offers limited choices, but given my perennial leftism, I decided it'd be a freaking great idea to support Republican Spain.
And maybe, you know, build some planes and carriers.
The UK starts off with absolutely no tech advantage. In fact, and I am not sure about this, I think almost any country starts off with better tech.
So, with some much-needed changes in the general staff, Norgy got down and dirty with researching tank tech.
We probably will need that in a few years.
The tech tree actually is not just decent but damned inventive and classy.
I love it.
My only concern about HoI3 is that it is fucking addictive even from the start.
I am probably going to play this until death. It is that good, people.
This one also comes with an AI.
Which is good. :P
All in all, well worth an investment, and well worth trying a Languish MP again with.
I suggest we all meet up around 12 pm CET and sit around in the lobby until kat and Habbaku manage to log in, then manage 20 minutes or so of actual gameplay.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Frolleyes_puking_rolleyes837.gif&hash=ac317deed76b186abde862d7f4d0064d1a6e4d04)
What is this you are playing?
You're a beta?
QuoteAnd maybe, you know, build some planes and carriers.
The UK starts off with absolutely no tech advantage. In fact, and I am not sure about this, I think almost any country starts off with better tech.
How stupid
Quote
The tech tree actually is not just decent but damned inventive and classy.
Do advances in one area help in another yet?
I hated it in the last games how you could have super ultra amazing jet fighters but if you choose to design a interceptor its back to 1936 technology and it takes just as long as developing your next generation super carrier....
So what happened when you woke up from your dream?
I like it so far, but I'm more than a bit overwhelmed on the sheer amount of information displayed. HOI2 had it right in keeping the user interface simple and clean.
Map is: sexy.
AI is: to be determined. Has anyone experienced a serious AI naval invasion? I would like to be forced to make a decision between keeping armies in France and the Lowlands or beefing up Barbarossa.
Quote from: Fate on August 07, 2009, 04:17:30 PM
AI is: to be determined. Has anyone experienced a serious AI naval invasion? I would like to be forced to make a decision between keeping armies in France and the Lowlands or beefing up Barbarossa.
Well, my support for the Reds in Spain earned me a Franco buttfuck in Gibraltar.
So, I try and research marines, 'cause this is not going to be unpunished.
Franco will feel pain!
Well, not really, since UK IC is almost non-existing and the UK have the highest upkeep cost ever.
There MAY be a naval invasion of Spain some time around 1946.
If we can find our swim trunks.
Quote from: Norgy on August 07, 2009, 04:28:18 PM
Well, not really, since UK IC is almost non-existing and the UK have the highest upkeep cost ever.
There's apparently some sort of bug that was introduced with 1.1 that really messes with your available IC as certain countries (UK being one of them).
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417183
QuoteWhen playing various countries during peacetime, the number of non-reserve brigades used to calculate the percentage of IC needed for consumer goods (or at least the number shown in the tooltip) appears to be calculated in what seems to be an incorrect fashion. Each non-reserve division appears to count as the number of brigades it contains squared, so that a division with one brigade still counts as a single brigade, a division with two brigades counts as four brigades, one with three as nine, and one with four as sixteen. This also applies to divisions created by splitting or merging existing divisions, so that two two-brigade divisions counting as 2^2+2^2=8 brigades will count as 4^2=16 brigades when merged, for instance.
This means that the peacetime economies of several countries (including France, the UK, Japan and the USSR) are completely screwed, as 99% of their IC has to go to consumer goods due to the calculated number of active brigades being far higher than their actual number.
The number of brigades displayed in the demo seems to be correct (ie. a division counts as its number of brigades and no more), so this may have been an issue introduced in the 1.1 patch.
:lol:
Is the first post a trap? :unsure:
Thanks Norgy :thumbsup:
Nobody can tell me if the warships are any fun.
Quote from: Neil on August 07, 2009, 06:29:32 PM
Nobody can tell me if the warships are any fun.
It's a Paradox game. What do you think?
You sayin' the major nations have no IC because Paradox fucked up the very first patch that was supposed to fix the bugs in their initial release?
I'm torn between contempt for whatever idiot did that and relief that I'm waiting another month to buy it.
Even with my new video card it runs like crap. Or at least the demo did.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 07, 2009, 08:53:52 PM
You sayin' the major nations have no IC because Paradox fucked up the very first patch that was supposed to fix the bugs in their initial release?
If so, that's pretty sad and hilarious.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 07, 2009, 10:20:18 PM
Even with my new video card it runs like crap. Or at least the demo did.
It's more of a processor type game. It's also a lot slower time wise than HoI2 (I don't know about EU3, I don't seem to have that installed anymore). It's taking about 10 - 12 seconds per day for me when I have it on the highest time compression setting.
Edit: As far as that IC bug goes...I dunno (haven't played or fought or even really payed attention to any majors)...it's just what some guy on their forums said. There's some other funny shit in the bug reporting section though. For example, influence might work in reverse (go to influence a country to make them your buddy, and they just get more and more pissed at you).
Oh and one I've personally noticed: The AI can build shit that you don't have the tech for. So like...if you want some TACs, but haven't researched them, set production to AI control and blammo! Tactical bombers! :D An HQ has to be saying it needs them for the AI to build them though. I guess.
some of the threads on pdox are a hoot. Finland annexing Albania; one guy had Mexico invade Germany.
^My current favorite is the one where HoI3 literally destroyed someone's computer.
Quote from: Weatherman on August 08, 2009, 12:33:21 AM
some of the threads on pdox are a hoot. Finland annexing Albania; one guy had Mexico invade Germany.
I had Mexico invade my germany when playing the 44-scenario... And this just a few days in since I don't have the patience to play more cause the game is so damn slow.
I started as the Soviets in the 1936 scenario. Five hours later, it's 1940. The Winter War was won in two months. Finland is now a Soviet puppet. The Allies didn't seem to like my aggressive behavior, so now I am now engaged in a ground war against the British Indian expeditionary force in Central Asia. In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have transferred all of my Siberian troops to Murmansk... :lol:
In other news:
Germany successfully invaded and annexed France in the winter of '39 by punching through the Maginot line head on.
Britain steamrolled Ethiopia and Libya in about half a year.
Germany doesn't seem to want to declare war on Belgium, Luxembourg, or the Netherlands. They did invade and annex Nationalist Spain, however. :rolleyes:
Some Chinese minor nation (Shanxi or something like those lines) annexed all of Manchuria, and the Korea peninsula.
I look forward to Barbarossa. I have a feeling that I'm about to get overrun. I've barely built any armies in addition to what I started the game with. There wasn't much IC available. Supplies are taking up the vast majority of any non-consumer goods IC.
If you want history read a book. :rolleyes:
Found this beautifull image on an strategy board :D
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi137.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq226%2FLucius_Lucullus%2FDiplomacy.jpg&hash=6d0de50071946be3354e66ad29892270103c8bac)
One thing is for certain, I will not be getting that game any time soon, Paradox at it's finest :lmfao:
Well the 1936 start was fooked up in HoI2 as well.
Finland landing in Albania is not a problem, it is not more stupid of an idea than Aussies landing at the Dardanelles. The problem is Finland joining the allies that early.
What is totally horrible however is the stuff like the placement of Stalingrad, and then OHGamer coming and telling people at least it just only slightly off and not in Spain, and that it still pays the same VP so just STFU.
And of course his mapmod which fixes this is behind the "register your game zone". Which I still might, if I end up liking the pirated version, which by all purposes be a fantasy game set in WW2 tech, due to map issues and apparently messed up diplomacy system.
What's the deal with hiding the mod forum anyway?
They did it with EU3, then made it read-only after people started bitching.
They did it again with Rome, said it was by mistake and made it read-only when people started bitching.
And now they're doing it again?
Quote from: Tamas on August 08, 2009, 04:12:12 AM
Well the 1936 start was fooked up in HoI2 as well.
Finland landing in Albania is not a problem, it is not more stupid of an idea than Aussies landing at the Dardanelles. The problem is Finland joining the allies that early.
apparently messed up diplomacy system.
If you think Finland joining the allies is bad, look at the pic I posted, Switzerland, USA and Denmark all have joined the allies..... in -38 :lmfao:
Quote from: Ideologue on August 07, 2009, 10:46:13 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 07, 2009, 08:53:52 PM
You sayin' the major nations have no IC because Paradox fucked up the very first patch that was supposed to fix the bugs in their initial release?
If so, that's pretty sad and hilarious.
:mad: :cry:
It's not funny to a man who actually bought the downloadable version at an inflated price just to have an extra week's fun making the Empire RULE!!!!
:lmfao:
Quote from: Tamas on August 08, 2009, 04:12:12 AM
Well the 1936 start was fooked up in HoI2 as well.
Finland landing in Albania is not a problem, it is not more stupid of an idea than Aussies landing at the Dardanelles. The problem is Finland joining the allies that early.
What is totally horrible however is the stuff like the placement of Stalingrad, and then OHGamer coming and telling people at least it just only slightly off and not in Spain, and that it still pays the same VP so just STFU.
And of course his mapmod which fixes this is behind the "register your game zone". Which I still might, if I end up liking the pirated version, which by all purposes be a fantasy game set in WW2 tech, due to map issues and apparently messed up diplomacy system.
Pretty much what I just posted in the Copenhagen thread over there.
I've bought every P'dox game since EU1, but this one really breaks it for me. It's not only that this is the most inaccurate map of any Paradox game, it's that it turns the game into a fantasy game. A WW2 game can only be as good as its map.
What's even worse is their, "If you - or reality - don't agree, you can easily mod it."
I know that Paradox games rely heavily on unpaid betas doing a lot of the research (province histories, POP data etc.). Now they appear ready to take it to the next level by skipping (or possibly ignoring) meticulous research during beta and putting out their engine for modders to turn it into a realistic game. I've enjoyed every Paradox game without mods so far (the map was there, and the gameplay was fun enough to a casual played like me), but having to look at a map that can't even get basics right like which side of a fucking river towns are, or where the Argentine capital is, or New York, or Stalingrad makes me wonder what else they messed up for the sake of "playability", "new player friendliness" etc.
Oh damn, its out :o
So...Considering EU3 runs like a absolute dog I guess HOI3 is also one to buy when I have my super mega octo-core one terra hurt processor of the future?
Quote from: Tyr on August 08, 2009, 05:38:39 AM
Oh damn, its out :o
So...Considering EU3 runs like a absolute dog I guess HOI3 is also one to buy when I have my super mega octo-core one terra hurt processor of the future?
Yes. Possibly even the one after that.
Quote from: Maladict on August 08, 2009, 04:23:31 AM
What's the deal with hiding the mod forum anyway?
They did it with EU3, then made it read-only after people started bitching.
They did it again with Rome, said it was by mistake and made it read-only when people started bitching.
And now they're doing it again?
It seems it has become visible now. :lol:
Managed to grab a copy for £21 because of some refunded postage sitting in my paypal account. Downloading now.
It's no doubt horribly buggy as I see from all the complaints, but considering I work two floors above one of the best libraries of military history in the UK, I could not resist. :Embarrass:
Anyone for some Multiplayer? That's one way of getting around atrocious AI :D
Okay so I had a glance at 1.00. There is no excuse for the fucked up diplomacy and especially no excuse for the map errors which frankly just insult the intelligence of all customers, but guys this engine is some serious shit.
Altough I havent learned to use it effectively, I just love the idea of giving objectives to HQ units. (btw remembering the kamikaze port raids against Germany in 1939, I sent out my kriegsmarine on various patrol missions and they did encounter and repell some destroyer-transport combo small fleets as I could see). Research seems to make more sense even if its much harder to oversee at first glance.
I am definetly not saying you should buy it now (I might end up because I am way too bored, dang), but the potential behind this engine is mind-blowing.
It would just be great if Johan and co. would stop marketing their stuff as "games" and start calling them "customizable engines"
Quote from: Ideologue on August 08, 2009, 01:38:05 AM
^My current favorite is the one where HoI3 literally destroyed someone's computer.
How in the fuck did that happen?
Nah, I actually see few bugs in this one compared to, say, oh well, HoI 1 and HoI 2.
Sure, there is going to be some minor detail that needs ironing out, but this is a Good Game even on release.
I just suck great big donkey balls at it.
I managed to have Chuikov and Zhukov putting up camp just outside Berlin in 1942 in a Germany attempt. So I think I might need to look a bit closer at how I do things.
I tried the UK again today, and yes, Neil, there are dreadnoughts to build.
There is also being surrounded in Belgium and Norway and lose 5 hard-earned divisions.
Airwar seems to work well. I lost all my planes trying air superiority in France when Germany came a'knocking.
I only have this negative to say: Gulsvik, Johan? Really? Should that perhaps be Gjøvik?
All in all, HoI3 is a really fucking fantastic game if you like, like, history and stuff. :lol:
Quote from: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 08:16:25 AM
Nah, I actually see few bugs in this one compared to, say, oh well, HoI 1 and HoI 2.
This is true. There does seem to be less wrong with it when compared to the initial releases of certain "classic" Paradox games. This 1.1 isn't as cool/fun/hahaha as the 1.1 or 1.01 (whichever) Victoria patch that made the immigration and (IIRC) pop growth in the new world blow through the roof though. That was a great broken patch.
I remember having a game as Texas with that first patch with like 250,000,000+ people living in my country only about halfway through the scenario and trying to get involved in on of the European land wars. It was awesome being able to shrug off the loss of a 600,000 man stack (everyone made peace and they were stuck in the middle of some country over there).
Edit: Oh wow...some guy maybe figured out why it was so slow:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417809
That temporary fix in post 75 took me from 10 - 12 seconds per day to less than 10 (about 7 second average), so it helps a little.
I'm going to wait for a few patches. HOI2 was not bad out of the box. HOI 1 not so much. I fear this will be more like Victoria which never really was fixed well enough.
So the verdict is that you need some sort of future computer.....from space to run this?
Heh. If I just take out the ai_diplomacy and ai_foreign_minister files, it's 3 seconds per day. No trade or diplomatic AI though, obviously. The max daily trade thing, while improving the speed, also means the
player can't trade more than 2.5 of...whatever you want to trade. So that's not going to work.
QuoteSo the verdict is that you need some sort of future computer.....from space to run this?
No.
Here's the very basics of mine:
AMD Athlon 64 x2 5200+ (2.7ghz)
Radeon HD 3600 1gb
2gb noname RAM
Vista Business 32bit
Not a future space computer. In fact, it's really starting to need some upgrades.
Edit: And a temporary fix for that IC bug thing with the regiments, Norgy:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417842
Should work pretty well, although with some side effects, if it actually does what it appears it should (increase peacetime IC by 40%...you'll have to add the 40% more resources to cover it as well). If the bug means you require 40% more IC in peacetime to cover the consumer goods required, well...there you go.
The laws "fix" a little further down might be better, since it directly addresses the CG needs.
I have a 4 gig and quad core rig, and the game runs smoothly for me.
I bet if you try and and run it on some mediocre laptop with 2 gigs and an old processor, there will be issues, but it runs well under Vista and with 4 gigs.
And, Warspite, sure. I am always game for some MP.
Also, if anyone has a link to a swastika-filled graphics pack, I would be grateful.
Quote from: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 10:22:14 AM
I have a 4 gig and quad core rig, and the game runs smoothly for me.
:yes:
Quote from: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 10:29:18 AM
Also, if anyone has a link to a swastika-filled graphics pack, I would be grateful.
Jaysus when are they ever going to get over that one?
Good to hear that the engine is ok.
I will look what patches and add ons and mods do to this and maybe pick it up later, then.
I like it, lot going on at once though.
Probably in a few hundred years. When Hitler is remembered for being a terrific dancer and a few marbles short of a full set.
The whole idea that we need to ban stuff because it was at some point used to rally people to do uninimaginable acts is silly.
Let us get it all out in the open, and then maybe we can avoid it happening again and maybe you know, learn from history and shit. Which we Europeans have seemed so apt at the past 500 years.
Quote from: Cecil on August 08, 2009, 11:18:48 AM
Quote from: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 10:29:18 AM
Also, if anyone has a link to a swastika-filled graphics pack, I would be grateful.
Jaysus when are they ever going to get over that one?
Swastika = bad
Hitler like caricature delivering tutorial= good.
Go figure.
So a grognard WWII strategy game requires a more powerful computer than cutting edge fps games? Great design decision there...
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on August 08, 2009, 11:34:48 AM
So a grognard WWII strategy game requires a more powerful computer than cutting edge fps games? Great design decision there...
I guess they will further optimize but with convoys and various AIs and crapload of provinces and research and who knows what, there has to be a LOT of calculations going on.
BTW I think they had a people with no considerable historical knowledge design the map and province names using modern maps. This is not only visible from Stalingrad, but stuff like the Hungarian province names being actually quite decent (not that many major cities to choose from so no chance of a real mixup) except for "Dunaújváros" which was a city built from scratch in the 50s. And Budapest is on the NE side of the (ridioucsly shaped) Danube instead of west of it represent the great defensive value of the river. That was probably due to most of the city actually being on the eastern side. I dont even mention that the scene of one of the longest and bloodiest sieges outside of the Soviet Union is represented as plains.
If you want a historical look, buy an atlas. :rolleyes:
OK. I shall buy this in September, when I return from vacation. By then I'm hoping the major problems will be fixed and Norgy will have created Mods to improve the grand campaign.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on August 08, 2009, 11:34:48 AM
So a grognard WWII strategy game requires a more powerful computer than cutting edge fps games? Great design decision there...
:huh:
Cutting edge FPS task the GPU, but have much less stuff going on CPU-wise than a strategy game like HoI. It is only natural that AI will use a lot more CPU in this kind of game.
Also, Johan seems to have gone for flexibility rather than speed here. Which, while terrible news for many now, is much better in the long run. If AI is completely accessible through Lua scripts modders will be able to do great things without needing access to the .EXE.
I'll buy this game when it comes bundled with it's three expansions in 2011.
Quote from: Iormlund on August 08, 2009, 12:16:15 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on August 08, 2009, 11:34:48 AM
So a grognard WWII strategy game requires a more powerful computer than cutting edge fps games? Great design decision there...
:huh:
Cutting edge FPS task the GPU, but have much less stuff going on CPU-wise than a strategy game like HoI. It is only natural that AI will use a lot more CPU in this kind of game.
Also, Johan seems to have gone for flexibility rather than speed here. Which, while terrible news for many now, is much better in the long run. If AI is completely accessible through Lua scripts modders will be able to do great things without needing access to the .EXE.
It doesn't really matter to most people whether it's taxing the graphics card or the cpu, the fact remains that this game currently requires a very high end computer to play at an acceptable perfomance. This is a very niche game, it should run well on even older systems. Kinda like all the Paradox games used to.
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2009, 07:26:53 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 08, 2009, 01:38:05 AM
^My current favorite is the one where HoI3 literally destroyed someone's computer.
How in the fuck did that happen?
Some guy's old GPU failed/overheated/toasted within moments of running the game. I'm hyperbolic for effect--pretty certainly it was his hardware, not HoI3, but I wouldn't be all that shocked.
This has, however, made decide to get a new video card before getting this.
After going through and playing the demo again, I'm starting to really like the theater AI concept.
I'm definitely going to wait to hear if the 1.2 has decent performance improvements and fixes the most glaring bugs first, though.
Sigh. Apparently the game won't get that much faster, beacuse there's "so much stuff going on." :cry:
Quote from: Faeelin on August 08, 2009, 01:11:46 PM
Sigh. Apparently the game won't get that much faster, beacuse there's "so much stuff going on." :cry:
Looking at the modding section calls bullshit...apparently if you scale back the trading / intelligence AI a bit (running say every 5 ticks instead of every tick), you can get like a 50% speedup.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418002
Plus, NA was able to dramatically improve EU3's performance, and HOI3 hasn't been similarly optimized yet, so there should be a lot of room for improvement (just optimizing their LUA ought to help a lot).
Performance issues are my biggest complaint so far. I do have an older machine (with a relatively new and decent vid card though) and at top speed the game just doesn't progress very quickly. I've turned off trees, water, anti-aliasing on my vid card and that has helped but not much. I like the game but it could definitely use some optimization for performance.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 08, 2009, 12:30:44 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2009, 07:26:53 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 08, 2009, 01:38:05 AM
^My current favorite is the one where HoI3 literally destroyed someone's computer.
How in the fuck did that happen?
Some guy's old GPU failed/overheated/toasted within moments of running the game. I'm hyperbolic for effect--pretty certainly it was his hardware, not HoI3, but I wouldn't be all that shocked.
This has, however, made decide to get a new video card before getting this.
Once when I played the demo my screen went all psychedelic like....all nice mushroomy colours after about an hour or so? Not sure. I imagine that's a grpahics card overheating?
I decided to load it up today. Played the demo for about an hour without issue.
Quote from: Josephus on August 08, 2009, 01:56:04 PM
Once when I played the demo my screen went all psychedelic like....all nice mushroomy colours after about an hour or so? Not sure. I imagine that's a grpahics card overheating?
I decided to load it up today. Played the demo for about an hour without issue.
It sounds like the graphics card.. that or Fear and Loathing in LV.
Okay so running my first proper 1.1 game, as UK from 1939 sept. 1. Germany finished Poland off by mid-October, had some partisans spawn there since that.
Naval skirmishing, sporadic air battles, and some sub attacks had been the order of the day until March of 1940, when Germany declared war on Norway, shortly after on Sweden as well, which prompted Denmark and Netherlands to mobilize.
This is where things at, I just thought I report.
Oh and SU attacked Finland in 1939, pwned them than went with historical Winter War peace when that event fired.
I'm having a hoot reading through the threads on the Paradox fora :lol:
I didn't pay 40 bucks for a beta test
I love this hardcore realism simulation of WW2
Stalingrad!!
Quote from: Faeelin on August 08, 2009, 01:11:46 PM
Sigh. Apparently the game won't get that much faster, beacuse there's "so much stuff going on." :cry:
chill. it's a real time simulation of turn-based gaming. :smarty:
Quote from: ulmont on August 08, 2009, 01:15:20 PM
Looking at the modding section calls bullshit...apparently if you scale back the trading / intelligence AI a bit (running say every 5 ticks instead of every tick), you can get like a 50% speedup.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418002
I just tried this fix and it actually worked pretty well for me. The top speed is now very tolerable. I'm not sure about the effect though, I haven't played enough of the game without the fix to know if it is negatively affecting anything.
Okay, this has been quite fun so far, even if a bit whacky: The whole Scandinavian agression thing and alliances triggered war between Italy and myself plus France. I initially sent the BEF Corps I created from some starting forces (an armored and an infantry division) to Norway. But, the Home Fleet managed to beat off the German invasion attempts (Schanhorst and some other German ships sent to the bottom of the sea).
After that Germany DoWed Denmark, overran it, and used the strait connection to Sweden to land there. I moved the BEF to land toward there, but the Italian situation made me rout them back toward the west-norway port.
The Italian AI was quick to move against Egypt and I had to transport several freshly built divisions there, and altough there were initial difficulties and the Mediterranean Fleet had close battles, now in July I am pushing the Italians back.
However in Europe, altough France initially advanced into Italy (I think they even got near Milan, assuming that obscure little European town is where its supposed to be, haven't checked), once the Italians gathere up against them, they were pushed back and a few weeks ago the northern half of that front collapsed and the Italians are in the process of spreading through the gap into Southern France. Which of course is starting a chain reaction of France weakening the Maginot Line and Germans starting to attack that.
So the BEF is now being rushly assembled in a Norse port to try and save France.
I will not be buying this. Nor will I likely buy anything else from them ever again.
When EUIII came out, I remember there were some complaints that had people saying, "How could this have not been caught in beta?" and both Paradox and the beta tester pretty much stuck to the reply, "We can't discuss what happened in beta because of the NDA." This time, some of the beta testers have posted that they did in fact complain about the map from day one. That the map has some problems is one thing. That Paradox knew about the problems and didn't bother to fix them is plain and simple a fucking insult to their customers.
The map is always decided on early in the production process and then remains unchanged. While that made some sense when the map was basically a big hand drawn graphic I don't see how this would explain it when modders make major changes within a few hours, without knowing the engine in and out.
There's been complaints about some OOBs, too - some of it was brushed away as hard to research/limited research rersources. However, this is #3 in a series. Surely there's a wealth of pre-existing data from the previous games and the mods by the resident nitpickers that could be built upon?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg44.imageshack.us%2Fimg44%2F6785%2Fbritaininvades.png&hash=d7bda4716b8371e1062e265801362fddfec9969f)
:bleeding:
Well that has to a be an 1936 start, judging by the number of divisions.
Still I guess there could be something like a "just invaded" tag for units or something making their movement out of the initial invasion province VERY slow so the defender would have time to gather up units and counterattack.
:D Someone with two hours of free time and a hex editor solved the CG bug. You can do it yourself, just find the topic on the boards. He may have halved the demand for officers but that is easily changeable, just find the defines.lua file in the "common" directory, and change LEADERSHIP_TO_OFFICERS from 1 to 0.5
I always thought that the HoI series, though P'dox' biggest selling franchise, is not really what Johan & Co. are interested in making. They try to do the best they can, but I'm not sure these games are where they go "the extra mile", which, I think, was why Rome was such a lackluster attempt - it was what the fans clamored for, not what Paradox wanted to make.
I think that the original EU3 came close to a vision of Johan's dream game - even though many didn't agree with the freeform/balance for MP approach (possibly a miscalculation by Paradox because EU2 was kept alive way beyond its prime thanks to the MP community).
Unfortunately, though, Paradox needs to generate revenue and that may entail creating something for the market, even if you are not that interested in the whole game.
On the other side we have Stardock, working on Elemental: War of Magic. Frogboy recently asked the community if they'd be ok with extending the development timeline for half a year or so. He said that as self producing, self publishing team that draws its main income from other areas (Stardock's desktop apps) they are under no pressure to release on a certain date and would like to get as much beta feedback as possible to make the game not only what the devs want, but also something that the fans want.
Actually, I find their approach interesting - they allow you to pre-order which entails participation in the beta (which mean you get charged before release, though). So by pledging support for their development process you get some influence on it.
Granted, Stardock probably generates a lot fewer pre-orders than Pardox/HoI3, but I wonder if that might be an approach for Paradox in the future - give pre-orders the chance to participate in the beta (besides the volunteers taken onboard early on - what would be the alpha test crew at Stardock). It would probably have funnelled a lot of the threads now plaguing the forums at Paradox into the (less visible) beta channels.
Apparently the ahistorically quick growth of the Allies faction can be avoided if Germany sends out spies to France and UK (and one or two other countries, e.g. Denmark) with the mission to create threat, i.e. make those countries look bad internationally and deflect interest from Germany.
Quote from: Syt on August 09, 2009, 04:05:40 AM
Apparently the ahistorically quick growth of the Allies faction can be avoided if Germany sends out spies to France and UK (and one or two other countries, e.g. Denmark) with the mission to create threat, i.e. make those countries look bad internationally and deflect interest from Germany.
I might be wrong but I think Axis diplomacy is quite passive in general.
And I agree with you regarding EU3: I think the philosophy behind that game is what Johan really likes to make, and I agree with him. And also Rome: Johan had several "no we won't make an Ancients game that age bores me to tears" comments in OT back in the days.
I do think HoI3 was pushed to the EU3 direction, and I can't say for the worse because first of all the diplomacy system is far from being declared hopeless, and secondly, I always got pretty bored with HoI2 quite fast.
I for one deeply enjoyed EU3. It was easy to play but hard to master (this in my opinion is ideal). I actually liked the way events and such worked since I always felt strait jacketed by the looming future. Hearts of Iron never interested me as much (though I did get it).
:huh: I need to find the ledger to see where is my Mediterranean Fleet is because I can't find it. The Italians I guess could not find it either because they decided on invading Malta and defeating its garrison. They had their navy defending the operation I know because I sent my Malta-based subs out but they got massacred.
In the meantime Lybia is mine , Tunis got liberated by me and the French, but the Italian AI sneaked a division up back to eastern Lybia from East Africa so I have to hunt them down.
In return I shall invade Sicily
Especially because the winter (it is January 1941 now) did not slow me or the French down in pursuing the Italians from France back to the Alps, which kind of turned the tide there. So yeah, I might land in Genoa instead and crush them.
Needless to say, mighty Sweden repelled the Germans and now there is trench island warfare around Kopenhagen.
And yes, Italy is much bigger of a problem than Germany now, but mostly because Germany ties down most of the French Army on the Maginot Line.
WTF :lol:
As spring set in, the Italians attacked with a HUGE army compared to our french-british forces at the border and broke through. I landed in Sicily and Naples to discourage them, but did not manage to. Late March I have two divisions south of Rome (which is defended so can't take it yet), while 2-3 other divisions are mopping up southern Italy.
My forces in southern France are making such a rush to a soon-to-fall Marseille that it makes Dunkirk(or whatever) seems like a tea party. And yes, I am evacuating them to Southern Italy to fight there. And yes they are running there from Italian forces.
The Italians are actually pretty near to Paris now, all the French army is scrambling against them so the Germans will pour over the border soon I am sure. Oh, and Turkey agreed to join me. As a matter of fact most countries lean toward Allies they just don't want to join. With France being out soon I wonder if this will change.
Tito is a general in the Yugoslav Army :frusty:
Quote from: Warspite on August 09, 2009, 02:49:13 PM
Tito is a general in the Yugoslav Army :frusty:
Oh you Balkan types with your demands for silly little nitpicks of historical accuracy...
Paradox has really gone into the shitter, haven't they? Which is actually good news for me, because reading threads like this provides more entertainment than HoI3 ever would.
I'm pissed at HOI2 right now. Advanced Turbojet Naval bombers are annihilating my Supersonic Interceptors, and killing my convoys by the dozens.
There's reports of Germans landing in the U.S. in 1940, or going to the Malacca Straights (seen the screenshot) , or landing in China to aid Japan.
Some see it as "great AI" trying to exploit weaknesses.
Quote from: Syt on August 09, 2009, 11:03:00 PM
There's reports of Germans landing in the U.S. in 1940, or going to the Malacca Straights (seen the screenshot) , or landing in China to aid Japan.
Some see it as "great AI" trying to exploit weaknesses.
the fanboys are blinded, as always. :s
it's a game with potential, but it'll take a while for it to get there
This post (in response to inaccurate Hungarian claims) made me laugh:
Quotewhocares about hungry ? just invade them and make them wash your toilets
The sheer mindlessness that goes on, on that board. :lol:
I'll buy it. But not now.
Maybe I'm stupid, but I can't figure out how to stop or influence the converting of energy into fuel. The manual and the strategy guide both say that it is much more efficient to convert oil to fuel or even buy fuel from somebody else, but I can't find any possibility to change the converting process. Or do I just have to import more crude oil so that the balance will shift automatically?
Anybody knows the answer?
Biggest mistake: I did not annex the north-italian nazi state. Now the fuckers can't supply me.
Besides their whole forming is fubared. I have to conquer all italian keys to trigger it meaning I control all of italy how the fuck do they appear then? Just to surrender immediately, none the less.
Oh and dont send your fleets on patrol. My Mediterranean Fleet was sent out of Alexandria to patrol the seas south of Genoa. Couple of weeks later I get the news of them sinking some Japanese ship off the coast of China.
Quote from: Tamas on August 10, 2009, 05:36:36 AM
Oh and dont send your fleets on patrol. My Mediterranean Fleet was sent out of Alexandria to patrol the seas south of Genoa. Couple of weeks later I get the news of them sinking some Japanese ship off the coast of China.
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
They were showing initiative and devil may care American style attitude. If the Limey's had had more of that they wouldn't have needed us to bail them up.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 10, 2009, 06:18:04 AM
They were showing initiative and devil may care American style attitude. If the Limey's had had more of that they wouldn't have needed us to bail them up.
That's right. That's the new AI exploiting weaknesses in Japan's naval defence system.
Hm. When prioritizing a unit for upgrade, repair, and reinforcement (the green star), am I able to simply click on an HQ to have that "bonus" apply to all the units under it's command, or do I have to go through to each individual division and prioritize them?
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 10, 2009, 02:26:53 PM
Hm. When prioritizing a unit for upgrade, repair, and reinforcement (the green star), am I able to simply click on an HQ to have that "bonus" apply to all the units under it's command, or do I have to go through to each individual division and prioritize them?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.ics.purdue.edu%2F%257Essanty%2Fimages%2F7.gif&hash=3c0f4e9fe3f6d164405e5d45666ce2074461b10c)
(http://web.ics.purdue.edu/%7Essanty/images/7.gif)
:D Thanks Berk.
Quote from: BVN on August 10, 2009, 04:35:19 AM
Maybe I'm stupid, but I can't figure out how to stop or influence the converting of energy into fuel. The manual and the strategy guide both say that it is much more efficient to convert oil to fuel or even buy fuel from somebody else, but I can't find any possibility to change the converting process. Or do I just have to import more crude oil so that the balance will shift automatically?
Anybody knows the answer?
I don't think there is anything you can do to shut it off, unfortunately.
Can anyone e-mail me the strategy guide? :)
I only have the demo and will buy the game later.
Quote from: Josephus on August 10, 2009, 05:59:50 PM
Can anyone e-mail me the strategy guide? :)
I only have the demo and will buy the game later.
No, pirate, no.
:D :lol:
I must admit that Paradox site is a hoot just now.
Firstly, I still play Victoria, HOI2, and EU2, LOVE 'em. They all took about a year from release to get to peak, but Paradox stood firm in their support and work. :wub:
So they get all these 14 year olds that are all like: OMG#$$#%$#@!# the diplomacy DOESN'T WERK!!!! USA, teh SWISS, and Holland all join the allies in 1937!!1!! Then we find out the player (Chermany) has gone on a conquest campaign all of 1936 and 7. :lol: Yeah, playing Grabby McGrab will drive the rest of the world into the allied alliance, duh.
Then we have people who are all like OMG!!^&%&^$%$Z!! when eye playz teh fast it's takes 9 seconds for a day. :huh: I'm like yeah, well I play HOI2 on above average and it probably takes 8 seconds for a day. Big deal.
That said there does seem to be big issues, I'm sure P'Dox will solve them.
I'd buy the game today, but I'm pretty sure it would burn my CPU :lol:, and I'm looking for a new PC so I'll surely purchase HOI3 right after.
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:25:41 PM
Firstly, I still play Victoria, HOI2, and EU2, LOVE 'em. They all took about a year from release to get to peak, but Paradox stood firm in their support and work. :wub:
Habs - you should pick up EU3. It's matured wonderfully.
Beeb, will I miss all the historic events with EU3?? :(
Or not and wait for the eu2 "fan-made" update that will most certainly not tax people's systems. :D
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:32:56 PM
Beeb, will I miss all the historic events with EU3?? :(
I don't think so. There's a variety of missions and events that have a good sense of history, without having the straight-jacket feel of some EU2 events.
Cool. Maybe I'll grab it while waiting for my PC upgrade/on to HOI3. :hug:
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:37:22 PM
Cool. Maybe I'll grab it while waiting for my PC upgrade/on to HOI3. :hug:
Double check that your graphics card can handle Pixel Shader 2.0. Any card from the last few years should be no problem, but if you're attempting to run from integrated graphics you could have a problem.
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:25:41 PM
Firstly, I still play Victoria, HOI2, and EU2, LOVE 'em. They all took about a year from release to get to peak, but Paradox stood firm in their support and work. :wub:
We should get another EU2 MP game one of these days. :shifty:
:w00t:
Quote
Then we have people who are all like OMG!!^&%&^$%$Z!! when eye playz teh fast it's takes 9 seconds for a day. :huh: I'm like yeah, well I play HOI2 on above average and it probably takes 8 seconds for a day. Big deal.
That is a big deal.
Its not as bad as it is with EU3 (Where you're supposed to be covering centuries of time...) but still quite crappily slow when you're not in a war.
The laggy game speed even when at the highest setting is quite annoying when you're invading an entire front of low infrastructure provinces.
I love some of the fanbois.
"I love how finally there's some randomness in the game! Seeing the Scharnost guarding the German invasion force to attack the Guangxi Clique makes you realize how much the war could have been different!"
Quote from: Faeelin on August 10, 2009, 10:41:23 PM
I love some of the fanbois.
"I love how finally there's some randomness in the game! Seeing the Scharnost guarding the German invasion force to attack the Guangxi Clique makes you realize how much the war could have been different!"
Lolz. So Jaron really could re-create Byzantium.
Is there an event for Greek freedom fighters conquering Istanbul and renaming it COnstantinople?
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 10, 2009, 10:55:45 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on August 10, 2009, 10:41:23 PM
I love some of the fanbois.
"I love how finally there's some randomness in the game! Seeing the Scharnost guarding the German invasion force to attack the Guangxi Clique makes you realize how much the war could have been different!"
Lolz. So Jaron really could re-create Byzantium.
Is there an event for Greek freedom fighters conquering Istanbul and renaming it COnstantinople?
Register your game and ask in the Modding forum. :P
Supply sucks. AI sucks. Speed sucks.
Will not buy until the patch is released. :thumbsdown:
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 01:22:57 AM
Supply sucks. AI sucks. Speed sucks.
Will not buy until the patch is released. :thumbsdown:
a few days after release Johan is working on patch 1.2 :paradox:
Hotfix is out, register your game to get it. :P
Here is a good post regarding diplomacy and espionage:
QuoteIf you're like me you fired up your first HoI3 GC with the intent of building some IC, researching some foundational tech, and then annexing Austria and Poland at the end of your 3 year establishment period. Thus starts World War 2.
Or not. Doing this rote strategy in HoI3 will surely land you in hot water as every country joins the Allies (even Japan!) and you find yourself facing sure doom by 1946 or earlier. Dog pile on Germany. Or Italy. Or whoever you happen to be. Several forum posts would have you believe the game is broken and a historical outcome (or even a reasonable ahistorical outcome) is not possible. This is simply not true.
Success lies in mastering the espionage game. "Pah," you say. "Pah! Everyone knows espionage in Hearts of Iron 2 was a tacked on pile of useless features that never really worked." Indeed. In HoI3, however, this is not the case. Not only does espionage work, it is an indispensible part of any young tyrant's toolkit.
Let's start by identifying some key concepts:
Threat - The old Paradox "badboy" concept seems to have migrated into threat. Threat is accumulated like badboy, but isn't entirely the same. Or rather: its mechanics are now more visible. Countries accumulate threat by declaring war or through some events (like the Anschluss). When the Threat of a faction's member states is high enough the opposing factions will gear up for war.
Neutrality - Neutrality is like the opposite of threat. It's a barrier to entry. Neutrality is a measure of how uncommitted your country is to war. The higher your neutrality, the less likely you are to declare war. Countries with high neutrality are also harder to recruit into alliances, but note that any country that drifts into perfect alignment with an alliance's founding state can be recruited even if very neutral.
Countries feel threatened by other countries that are aggressive. The effects of threat seem to be muted by distance. Germany engaging an unaligned Poland would build more threat toward France than it does toward the United States.
Each state has a position on the diplomacy grid. Every day states "drift" toward one of the three corners of the grid representing the ideologies of the major factions. There are two major drift components you CANNOT control:
1. A country's geographical position. The closer a country is to a faction member the more it will drift toward that faction.
2. A country's ruling ideology. I have never seen this change, although perhaps it is possible. All country's begin with a predisposition to drift toward the Axis, Allies, or Commintern.
If you had a game where no faction ever declared war or used diplomacy you would see each faction drift to a corner based primarily on these factors. Such drift would probably not give you a perfectly historical outcome, but it might be close as democracies and republics would align with the blue corner, socialist states would move toward the red corner, and the paternalists toward the black corner.
THREAT, however, changes the story. If a state perceives one of the factions as being a threat it will be pulled away from that corner. If a certain faction is really freaking threatening -- like Germany after annexing Poland -- states will be "pushed" away from that corner.
This is why states seem to flock to the Allied banner. A noobish Axis player starts abusing the world early, scaring everyone to flee under the protective folds of Churchill's rain cloak. Ahem.
THUS:
You must learn to manipulate the appearance of your enemies to neutralize the effect threat has on pushing favorable states into the arms of your enemies. You have two goals:
1. Keep potential enemies neutral as long as possible. For Axis players this means keeping the United States out of the war.
2. Keep potential allies moving toward your factional corner so you can more easily recruit them.
A country cannot join a faction unless it is either nearly perfectly aligned with that faction on the graph (full drift to their corner) or they are moderately close and they feel more threatened than they are neutral.
The naive method of controlling an enemy state is to apply direct political pressure to the forehead. The "influence" option enables you to push a target state toward your corner. On the downside this option costs 2 diplomats every day. If you want to influence 4 states that's 8 diplomats. Or 8 research projects that aren't getting done.
Influence is very inefficient and CHANCES ARE it will NOT be successful by itself. A Germany post-Poland is likely somewhere around 40 threat or more and influencing another state at this point MIGHT slow its drift to a crawl, but all those other states are going to be running toward the blue corner right fast.
The key lies in that age old solution to damn well everything: PROPAGANDA. Yes, it's time to make our enemy look like the bad guy.
If you look on the espionage screen you will notice a mission called "INCREASE THREAT." This has the effect of raising another state's badboy rating over time. You can have a total of 10 active spys in another state and with all of them working they can raise the badboy of a target fairly quickly. There are, however, a couple of mitigating factors:
- A country's threat is evaluated on a state-by-state basis. A mission to raise the threat of the UK will raise it at different rates for every state. So the UK may appear more threatening to Denmark than it does the US.
- This effect is based on distance. The US is less threatened by European states than by, say, Mexico. At least this seems to be the case.
- Large countries or perhaps countries with better counter-espionage don't raise threat as quickly. I'm not sure what the actual factor is, but raising the threat of Denmark will be faster than the UK or France even with 10 spies in each.
Now you have two strategies to pick from and both should be used together for maximum impact.
STRATEGY 1: The Grand Propaganda Campaign - Raise the threat in every member state of an enemy faction. As Germany, insert spies into the UK and France and have them raise threat. This will make the Allies look SCARY to other nations and they will begin to slow their move toward the blue corner. If you do this early in 1936 you can greatly slow the rate at which the Allies recruit new members.
Combine this with influencing key countries. For a more historical outcome influence Japan, America, and Switzerland. This will cause Japan to quickly becomes recruitable and will greatly slow the rate America enters the war. Switzerland will remain neutral for quite some time.
When the faction gains a new member, insert spies there as well. This will have the effect of weaking the alliance's ability to recruit even as they get stronger. They get new members, but you make their threat increase more quickly pushing other states away. Neat!
STRATEGY 2: The Shill - Pick any unaligned country (a state that isn't a member of a faction) and raise their threat using your spies. I like to pick on Denmark. Make the Danes the enemies of all the world through your propaganda. Because they are small the threat will build quickly. If you do this in 1936 its possible for Denmark to have 60+ threat by 1939 which is more than if they had declared war multiple times! People will HATE them. Why do this?
Other countries are more easily recruited and diplomatically manipulated if the amount they are threatened is GREATER than their neutrality. By setting up Denmark as the worlds evil empire through your efficient propaganda machine, you make neutral countries more pliable and less neutral. This will let you recruit countries that aren't fully aligned with you on the political graph.
Be aware, though, that pushing a third party's threat up too high could trigger an ahistorical war where some state becomes so threatened they decide to shut down your shill.
Also note that raising the threat of a country that is not in a faction will not change other states drift. States drift in response to faction member threat so unaligned countries won't impact the graph.
So how does all this play out in reality? Try this.
- As Germany influence America, Japan, and Switzerland. This will require a 6 leadership investment in diplomacy.
- Invest about 4 points in espionage. This will generate MAD amounts of spies.
- Change your spy send priorities so they go to the UK, France, and Denmark.
- Set the spy missions in those states to "Raise Threat."
- Work on your normal game: tech & gearing up. Don't reoccupy the rhineland until you're ready for Anchluss since you want the threat you are building in the Allied states to take root. If you annex Austria early you create threat from the Axis that will neutralize your efforts.
- Japan and Italy should become recruitable fairly quickly.
- Check the political graph in 1938. You'll see America fairly far from the Allies and other states in the middle.
You can use this for ahistorical evil as well, like recruiting National China into the Axis instead of Japan.
There may be specific mechanics I have slightly wrong, but this covers the general gist of using espionage to offset your expansionism.
Note that you can also put spies in your own country at work lowering your neutrality. This will let you declare war earlier. If you lower your neutrality while raising the threat of the country you want to attack, democratic states can go on the offensive early in the game
Quote from: garbon on August 10, 2009, 06:33:04 PM
Or not and wait for the eu2 "fan-made" update that will most certainly not tax people's systems. :D
None of us will live that long. :(
Per Tamas's posting: Drift doesn't seem to make total sense as a constant factor. Should neutral states really be drifting to corners all the time?
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2009, 02:35:59 AM
Per Tamas's posting: Drift doesn't seem to make total sense as a constant factor. Should neutral states really be drifting to corners all the time?
Well maybe not in special cases (like Switzerland) but in general yes because almost all countries has an agenda in war times, maybe its just keeping themselves safe, but often to gain lucrative trade/new land/etc
Having an agenda isn't exactly the same as joining a large multi-national/continental alliance.
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2009, 02:51:18 AM
Having an agenda isn't exactly the same as joining a large multi-national/continental alliance.
In time of a global conflict, yes, it is.
Quote from: Viking on August 11, 2009, 01:34:10 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 01:22:57 AM
Supply sucks. AI sucks. Speed sucks.
Will not buy until the patch is released. :thumbsdown:
a few days after release Johan is working on patch 1.2 :paradox:
I meant, of course, the "Patch" IE the first so called expansion pack.
FFS.
Can someone explain to me, why do supply convoys INSIST on running only ONE ship with 14 supplies when the invasion requires 450 supplies daily for its comfort girl contingent ALONE.
Paradox has really gone down hill. :cry:
You know, that shit with using the Danes as a lightning rod for ill-will would actually make sense if it were the Soviet Union instead.
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 04:06:43 AM
FFS.
Can someone explain to me, why do supply convoys INSIST on running only ONE ship with 14 supplies when the invasion requires 450 supplies daily for its comfort girl contingent ALONE.
Paradox has really gone down hill. :cry:
Well. Seems I have overlooked the fact that the size of hte port determines how much supplies you can cram into it.
However, I must protest when a lvl 1 and a lvl 3 port both can only handle 14 supplies/day. Does that even cover the needs of one division?
CRAPTACULAR.
I really like the new intelligence system - in my game as Germany I'm flooding Europe with propaganda against the imperialist British and French and their designs for Europe.
Interestingly, my father spent most of his career working for the British Council - an organisation that was actually originally set up in the 1930s to counter Nazi propaganda in Central Europe.
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 04:51:05 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 04:06:43 AM
FFS.
Can someone explain to me, why do supply convoys INSIST on running only ONE ship with 14 supplies when the invasion requires 450 supplies daily for its comfort girl contingent ALONE.
Paradox has really gone down hill. :cry:
Well. Seems I have overlooked the fact that the size of hte port determines how much supplies you can cram into it.
I think most of the crazy negative rave is in a big part due to people playing this as if it was HoI2 like you did, and thus it will fade.
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 04:51:05 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 04:06:43 AM
FFS.
Can someone explain to me, why do supply convoys INSIST on running only ONE ship with 14 supplies when the invasion requires 450 supplies daily for its comfort girl contingent ALONE.
Paradox has really gone down hill. :cry:
Well. Seems I have overlooked the fact that the size of hte port determines how much supplies you can cram into it.
However, I must protest when a lvl 1 and a lvl 3 port both can only handle 14 supplies/day. Does that even cover the needs of one division?
CRAPTACULAR.
I think that's awesome, at least in principle, although the absolute numbers may or may need tweaking. A level 1 port is presumably a Goddamn shithole, and I'm quite pleased Paradox had port levels matter.
I mean, I'm still not getting the game until it's patched up properly/I have my new computer, but I think it'll be all right. Really, I was sold when I saw that burning cities finally has an influence on a nation's will to fight on. :wub:
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 05:14:08 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 04:51:05 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 04:06:43 AM
FFS.
Can someone explain to me, why do supply convoys INSIST on running only ONE ship with 14 supplies when the invasion requires 450 supplies daily for its comfort girl contingent ALONE.
Paradox has really gone down hill. :cry:
Well. Seems I have overlooked the fact that the size of hte port determines how much supplies you can cram into it.
However, I must protest when a lvl 1 and a lvl 3 port both can only handle 14 supplies/day. Does that even cover the needs of one division?
CRAPTACULAR.
I think that's awesome, at least in principle, although the absolute numbers may or may need tweaking. A level 1 port is presumably a Goddamn shithole, and I'm quite pleased Paradox had port levels matter.
I mean, I'm still not getting the game until it's patched up properly/I have my new computer, but I think it'll be all right. Really, I was sold when I saw that burning cities finally has an influence on a nation's will to fight on. :wub:
Sure thing, but why does the lvl 3 port result in no more supplies than the lvl 1, and how the hell will a D-day have any chance at all of succeeding on the meager supplies that can be sent across the channel under these conditions unless the AI gets to cheat?
Still, reconsidering, this certainly solves the problem with the fact that all provinces can be invaded now, since the invader still has to capture a port in order to survive past 30 days.
In practice, it should be enough to garrison the ports and have a small mobile force to eradicate landings unless of course the offending party plops down 20 lvl 1 ports all along the coastline.
I predict an interesting development of MP tactics for this game.
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 05:18:59 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 05:14:08 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 04:51:05 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 04:06:43 AM
FFS.
Can someone explain to me, why do supply convoys INSIST on running only ONE ship with 14 supplies when the invasion requires 450 supplies daily for its comfort girl contingent ALONE.
Paradox has really gone down hill. :cry:
Well. Seems I have overlooked the fact that the size of hte port determines how much supplies you can cram into it.
However, I must protest when a lvl 1 and a lvl 3 port both can only handle 14 supplies/day. Does that even cover the needs of one division?
CRAPTACULAR.
I think that's awesome, at least in principle, although the absolute numbers may or may need tweaking. A level 1 port is presumably a Goddamn shithole, and I'm quite pleased Paradox had port levels matter.
I mean, I'm still not getting the game until it's patched up properly/I have my new computer, but I think it'll be all right. Really, I was sold when I saw that burning cities finally has an influence on a nation's will to fight on. :wub:
Sure thing, but why does the lvl 3 port result in no more supplies than the lvl 1, and how the hell will a D-day have any chance at all of succeeding on the meager supplies that can be sent across the channel under these conditions unless the AI gets to cheat?
Have you checked the supply troughput? See if there are somewhere chokepoints in your supply lines. Low infra is a nightmare for supply
Quote from: BVN on August 11, 2009, 07:14:40 AM
Have you checked the supply troughput? See if there are somewhere chokepoints in your supply lines. Low infra is a nightmare for supply
Apparently it's soemthing like 4 supply per level of sea port modified by whatever tech.
Seems a bit on the low end.
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 05:18:59 AM
Sure thing, but why does the lvl 3 port result in no more supplies than the lvl 1, and how the hell will a D-day have any chance at all of succeeding on the meager supplies that can be sent across the channel under these conditions unless the AI gets to cheat?
Are mulberries not modelled in any way?
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 07:32:34 AM
Quote from: BVN on August 11, 2009, 07:14:40 AM
Have you checked the supply troughput? See if there are somewhere chokepoints in your supply lines. Low infra is a nightmare for supply
Apparently it's soemthing like 4 supply per level of sea port modified by whatever tech.
Seems a bit on the low end.
Did not know you were a LOTR-tard during your Paradox days.
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2009, 07:42:51 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 05:18:59 AM
Sure thing, but why does the lvl 3 port result in no more supplies than the lvl 1, and how the hell will a D-day have any chance at all of succeeding on the meager supplies that can be sent across the channel under these conditions unless the AI gets to cheat?
Are mulberries not modelled in any way?
Well.
In the sense that you can build seaports and duly squirt them out once you land they are. However, you only get one freebie level of seaport which means effectively 4 units per coastal province you manage to gain. I doubt the AI is clever enough to pull this trick though, and I doubt 4 units is enough to model these "mulberries".
Quote from: Tamas on August 11, 2009, 07:47:23 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 07:32:34 AM
Quote from: BVN on August 11, 2009, 07:14:40 AM
Have you checked the supply troughput? See if there are somewhere chokepoints in your supply lines. Low infra is a nightmare for supply
Apparently it's soemthing like 4 supply per level of sea port modified by whatever tech.
Seems a bit on the low end.
Did not know you were a LOTR-tard during your Paradox days.
I've never been a LOTR tard.
If you're referring to the slanderous characterization of myself in that fanfic that... was it Uglyduck who wrote it? I cannot remember.. well...
Edit: Oh, you're referring to my sig and suchlike. :blush: No. It was just a convenient piece of prose.
Going by that long strategy post this doesn't seem to be as much a historical simulator as it is a way of finding out how to 'game' the AI.
If it were a Cold War game I could get into that. But for World War 2 I'd kind of like to think that things will follow a path, and you'd have to be clever and skilled to change that.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 11, 2009, 08:30:10 AM
Going by that long strategy post this doesn't seem to be as much a historical simulator as it is a way of finding out how to 'game' the AI.
If it were a Cold War game I could get into that. But for World War 2 I'd kind of like to think that things will follow a path, and you'd have to be clever and skilled to change that.
Altough it is much less untrue here than for EU3, it is still the same bullshit: if you act in hindsight, the very first thing you destroy is the simulation value of the decision processes involved for the contemporary leaders.
Quote from: Tamas on August 11, 2009, 01:40:58 AM
Here is a good post regarding diplomacy and espionage:
Sounds like a decent idea but one not implemented very efficiently. Eg.
QuoteMake the Danes the enemies of all the world through your propaganda. Because they are small the threat will build quickly.
Why should it be easier to build threat in a smaller country? Logically it should be the other way around - a smaller country is inherently less threatening and thus it should require more effort to convince the world that they really are dangerous despite their apparent objective innocuous. As a practical matter, no amount of propoganda should be able to convince the nations of the world that the Despostate of King Christian is the world's greatest meance. This is just flawed implementation and should be fixed.
QuoteSwitzerland
:bleeding:
At risk of stating the obvious, Switzerland should not be joining any wars, period, no matter what the great powers do with their intel. The main purpose of German spies and diplomats in Switzerland should be to keep the price of smuggled, looted gold, not to prevent a surprise attack from the jack-knived armed Alphorn Militia.
Quote from: Slargos on August 11, 2009, 05:31:45 AM
Still, reconsidering, this certainly solves the problem with the fact that all provinces can be invaded now, since the invader still has to capture a port in order to survive past 30 days.
IIRC this was discussed in the diaries. Invading troops carry some invasion supply with them but basically for a large invasion you have to capture a significant port pronto or face serious supply problems. Which is as it should be.
Is Brazil still run by communists?
Quote from: Maladict on August 11, 2009, 04:09:53 AM
Give us a date then to prove me wrong. :)
:NDA:
Sorry but the lips of the source code team have been sealed.
Quote from: Tamas on August 11, 2009, 09:08:02 AM
Altough it is much less untrue here than for EU3, it is still the same bullshit: if you act in hindsight, the very first thing you destroy is the simulation value of the decision processes involved for the contemporary leaders.
Of course it is bullshit to have other countries doing things that they weren't really capable of. That pretty much pushes any simulation into fantasy.
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2009, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 11, 2009, 09:08:02 AM
Altough it is much less untrue here than for EU3, it is still the same bullshit: if you act in hindsight, the very first thing you destroy is the simulation value of the decision processes involved for the contemporary leaders.
Of course it is bullshit to have other countries doing things that they weren't really capable of. That pretty much pushes any simulation into fantasy.
Yes as I was indicating the boundaries are way more strict than in the case of EU3, but I still say, as I was saying after the EU3 release (and was proven right) that the general approach is good and preferable over the classic event and AI file system of HoI2, it just needs fine-tuning.
This game is looking better and better. :)
Well...
I discovered one serious game breaker.
First, I tried 1936 GCs, but they went wildly awry when National Chinos invaded all of Manchuria and Korea.
So, after looking for some free advice on the P'dox boards, I tried a 1938 campaing. Then, Japan steamrolled all of China except that Clique and joined the Axis. However, this scared the German ai from doing anything, I think, so by 1941, Europe is playing happy families, while Japan and Germany decided to declare war on, wait for it, National Chinos. Again. Apparently, despite being puppeted, raped and exploited for sushi and raw materials, the game mechanics still had not declared their alliance with those clicks null and void, and Japan in a fit of rage suitable for someone who has to live in a country where bukkake is perfectly legal and school girl uniforms and used panties are sexual aids, declared war on the unfaithful chinos.
While this probably means that I will never see WWII as the US of A, I'll probably keep playing a while longer, just to see how much goddamn technology I need to research to build a carrier that isn't made of matches and tinfoil.
Quote from: Norgy on August 11, 2009, 12:38:02 PM
someone who has to live in a country where bukkake is perfectly legal
The implication behind this statement is that Norway is not the fun place I once believed it to be. :(
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 12:51:36 PM
Quote from: Norgy on August 11, 2009, 12:38:02 PM
someone who has to live in a country where bukkake is perfectly legal
The implication behind this statement is that Norway is not the fun place I once believed it to be. :(
Norway; Fun?; WTF?; FFS get into the real Norway.
Isn't bukkake legal?
Quote from: KRonn on August 11, 2009, 11:46:06 AM
This game is looking better and better. :)
Quote from: JohanWe actually tried to get more betas in this time.
But... 200 random people from the forum..
40 of them reported at least 1 bug
20 of them were active after first week
Almost all bugs they reported were fixed.
Next game we'll just not ask people from the forum to apply, but do some invites to people that actually stick around for more than. "oops this game is not finished yet 6 months before release, i'll just leave this.".
The most ironic thing was only seeing some betas participating in some demo-threads saying "this sucks", while they had posted ZERO times in the betaforum, and reported ZERO bugs during the 6 month beta.
So do not attack the betas that stuck around and reported problems.
__________________
Not sure if I understand Johan. Is he saying that out of 200 random beta testers from the forum, only 20 remained after one week?
Quote from: Josephus on August 11, 2009, 02:44:24 PM
Not sure if I understand Johan. Is he saying that out of 200 random beta testers from the forum, only 20 remained after one week?
Yes, that's what it looks like from here.
Quote from: Josephus on August 11, 2009, 02:44:24 PM
Not sure if I understand Johan. Is he saying that out of 200 random beta testers from the forum, only 20 remained after one week?
I kind of believe it actually. I will also say that I don't know how I feel about that; while it's too bad that the beta testers all bailed, it's the fault of the developers for pressing forward despite that.
200 to 20 seems reasonable. Sad but reasonable.
Does three have an event for the Beyreuth Wagner festivales!!??! :w00t:
Those of us who hold East Asia dear to our hearts may need to help with work needed on China and East Asia from what I'm hearing.
Don't know enough about beta's to comment. Ten percent would seem low to me if this were a business app. But for a game with such a limited target audience I guess its not terrible.
If I'm understanding that correctly then, they went ahead with only 20 beta testers? The number of bugs reported doesn't sound that bad.
Paradox's development crew is clearly incompetent if they figured a random drawing would yield good results. They'd have better luck by assigning beta spots based on post count in descending order.
Quote from: Fate on August 11, 2009, 03:41:47 PM
Paradox's development crew is clearly incompetent if they figured a random drawing would yield good results. They'd have better luck by assigning beta spots based on post count in descending order.
A random drawing isn't bad, but then you need to start with like 2000 spots to allow your 10% number to be large enough to get reasonable results.
Quote from: ulmont on August 11, 2009, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: Josephus on August 11, 2009, 02:44:24 PM
Not sure if I understand Johan. Is he saying that out of 200 random beta testers from the forum, only 20 remained after one week?
Yes, that's what it looks like from here.
Well then they need to rework their criteria. I'm sorry, I must laugh. I tried to get into beta for EU2 and HOI 2. I was even turned down for Diplomacy, yet I was the only one who bought the fucking game.
I couldn't be arsed to ever apply for beta again.
So...that's their problem ,then. :mad:
I wonder if just making it open to anyone who is a registered forum user would work for the next game.
Heh - I was a beta-tester for HOI 1, filed a half dozen bugs or so, and felt like I didn't really hold up my end of the bargain.
GUess I shouldn't have felt so bad...
Quote from: Habsburg on August 11, 2009, 03:16:02 PM
200 to 20 seems reasonable. Sad but reasonable.
Yeah, I think if you get usable feed-back from 10% of the people or groups testing the game, that's actually pretty good. It sounds bad if you haven't been involved in any product testing, but that's how things usually work out. OTOH, that means you want as many testers as you can get to start with. I don't see why they would turn down anyone who wanted to be a beta tester, unless it was someone that they knew from past experience wouldn't do jack, or someone that they had reason to feel wouldn't abide by the NDA.
In true Paradox fashion they should give people who drop out from the Beta process, their own special icon on the forum. :D
The political and espionage system looks great, though I agree with Minsky/Joan/Keynes that bigger countries should accumulate threat faster than smaller ones. This would make the historical strategy of demonizing the USSR more effective for Germany.
I'll probably hold off on buying this one for a few months. I bought and enjoyed vanilla HoI2, but the AI was a little too weak in some areas, especially the Pacific and naval AI, for the game to be fully enjoyable. No desire or plans to ever buy any expansions or DLC for HoI3.
Hopefully a good AI mod will come out for this, like DAIM but taking advantage of the Lua. Once that happens, and I can catch it on sale, I'll probably pick it up.
Quote from: Josephus on August 11, 2009, 01:10:29 PM
Isn't bukkake legal?
Bukkake is a loophole in itself.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 11, 2009, 09:48:11 PM
The political and espionage system looks great, though I agree with Minsky/Joan/Keynes that bigger countries should accumulate threat faster than smaller ones. This would make the historical strategy of demonizing the USSR more effective for Germany.
And Japan, for that matter. Even if far as effectiveness goes that may have been more of a matter of internal propaganda--but anticommunism was an aggressively-pushed rationale for the war in China.
QuoteI'll probably hold off on buying this one for a few months. I bought and enjoyed vanilla HoI2, but the AI was a little too weak in some areas, especially the Pacific and naval AI, for the game to be fully enjoyable. No desire or plans to ever buy any expansions or DLC for HoI3.
I could see doing it in some possible universe, but it would depend strongly on what they added.
QuoteHopefully a good AI mod will come out for this, like DAIM but taking advantage of the Lua. Once that happens, and I can catch it on sale, I'll probably pick it up.
I'll wait until they fix the major game issues with expansion packs and buy them all at once in a discount bin in a few years.
EU3 was the last time Paradox will con me to buying one of their games on release.
Definitely waiting on the bargain bin for this one. By then, the game will likely be patched to playability and several, entertaining mods will have been released.
One day, Paradox might give me a reason to buy at full-price, but the usual, sloppy releases are an indication that they want me to do nothing of the sort.
I was happy with the speed during wartime but playing as Germany '36 it is a bit slow. Do I remember well that there is an issue with 4 core CPUs?
Also, I have been raising threat levels in France, UK, and Poland. I did not want to exploit the Denmark thing. Works out quite well, France has the largest threat at least from where I sit, and the vast majority of countries are quite slow in leaning toward their usual end of the spectrum. Poland joined the Allies in 1937, but there is no danger of anyone else doing it at this moment.
Quote from: Habbaku on August 12, 2009, 12:38:04 AM
One day, Paradox might give me a reason to buy at full-price, but the usual, sloppy releases are an indication that they want me to do nothing of the sort.
I'd buy CK2 or Vic2 on the spot if they're ever made. :(
Quote from: Liep on August 12, 2009, 02:38:46 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 12, 2009, 12:38:04 AM
One day, Paradox might give me a reason to buy at full-price, but the usual, sloppy releases are an indication that they want me to do nothing of the sort.
I'd buy CK2 or Vic2 on the spot if they're ever made. :(
I strongly hope they won't be announcing Vicky2. the community needs more types of games, not the only two companies on the scene competing with the same time frame at the same time (ageod's vainglory I am talking about)
BTW is that gameshow next week any good? anyone going?
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 10:44:35 PM
And Japan, for that matter. Even if far as effectiveness goes that may have been more of a matter of internal propaganda--but anticommunism was an aggressively-pushed rationale for the war in China.
To be fair, Japan used just about everything as a propaganda to support the war. It was anti-communist, anti-warlord, a mission civilisatrice, anti-imperialist, and pan-Asiatic.
Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2009, 06:48:27 AM
To be fair, Japan used just about everything as a propaganda to support the war. It was anti-communist, anti-warlord, a mission civilisatrice, anti-imperialist, and pan-Asiatic.
Don't forget the "Killing the dumb Chinese" explanation too...
Quote from: Bauer on August 12, 2009, 12:33:46 AM
I'll wait until they fix the major game issues with expansion packs and buy them all at once in a discount bin in a few years.
EU3 was the last time Paradox will con me to buying one of their games on release.
WTF ARE YOU? :P
Quote from: PDH on August 12, 2009, 07:11:00 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2009, 06:48:27 AM
To be fair, Japan used just about everything as a propaganda to support the war. It was anti-communist, anti-warlord, a mission civilisatrice, anti-imperialist, and pan-Asiatic.
Don't forget the "Killing the dumb Chinese" explanation too...
That one was only for internal consumption, and even then only internal consumption of ultra-right army officers. The slaughter of the Chinese didn't make the evening news in Japan.
They didn't have an evening news in Japan. Only morning shows for some reason.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 12, 2009, 09:12:19 AM
They didn't have an evening news in Japan. Only morning shows for some reason.
Too busy getting drunk right after work.
Quote from: Liep on August 12, 2009, 02:38:46 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 12, 2009, 12:38:04 AM
One day, Paradox might give me a reason to buy at full-price, but the usual, sloppy releases are an indication that they want me to do nothing of the sort.
I'd buy CK2 or Vic2 on the spot if they're ever made. :(
CK I never really go into much. Played a bit but it never took with me. Vicky, I like, and I guess you could say Revolutions was a second game. It is quite different from the original.
So, I didn't expect HOI3 to be out so soon. Was figuring later in the year. I may not get it yet, been playing HOI2 and with summer just been busy, so I may wait a bit for HOI3. I do like the ideas, changes and concepts of what I've seen and read.
Quote from: KRonn on August 12, 2009, 02:03:51 PM
Quote from: Liep on August 12, 2009, 02:38:46 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 12, 2009, 12:38:04 AM
One day, Paradox might give me a reason to buy at full-price, but the usual, sloppy releases are an indication that they want me to do nothing of the sort.
I'd buy CK2 or Vic2 on the spot if they're ever made. :(
CK I never really go into much. Played a bit but it never took with me. Vicky, I like, and I guess you could say Revolutions was a second game. It is quite different from the original.
So, I didn't expect HOI3 to be out so soon. Was figuring later in the year. I may not get it yet, been playing HOI2 and with summer just been busy, so I may wait a bit for HOI3. I do like the ideas, changes and concepts of what I've seen and read.
One thing we learned from HOI2 is that its released when they need to meet a financial deadline, not when the game is necessarily in shape for the marketplace. That attitude is a cancer in the software industry.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 12, 2009, 03:05:09 PM
One thing we learned from HOI2 is that its released when they need to meet a financial deadline, not when the game is necessarily in shape for the marketplace. That attitude is a cancer in the software industry.
Well they are businesses. Can't very well say, no pay checks for the next few months guys, the product isn't ready.
I might get this. Is HoI3 better than the real thing?
It's only £20 or so, on that basis it's worth buying just to examine the game mechanics.
Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2009, 03:11:39 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 12, 2009, 03:05:09 PM
One thing we learned from HOI2 is that its released when they need to meet a financial deadline, not when the game is necessarily in shape for the marketplace. That attitude is a cancer in the software industry.
Well they are businesses. Can't very well say, no pay checks for the next few months guys, the product isn't ready.
I realize that in the intellectual sense. As a consumer (or a sysadmin being given responsibility for a new product to support)I have a problem with paying money for something that has problems out of the box, problems that the vendor knew about and decided to adopt an attitude that 'we'll fix it later', after they get my payment. I don't mean obscure or rare problems that could crop up in any complex system, but stuff like the entire fucking Luftwaffe flying off to be destroyed over Scotland because the flight AI is screwed from the start. Or this IC thing.
Most other industries can't get away with this shit. Imagine selling TV's that will suddenly shut off after 15 minutes of use and telling customers that its "just a bug and a patch will be released in a few days." Or an entire line of cars that are shipped with only three tires, ya gonna tell the customers that they'll receive the fourth in the mail? I sometimes feel that way when talking with developers.
I understand. I've made no new engine purchases.
Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2009, 05:00:46 PM
I understand. I've made no new engine purchases.
Good man. We'll turn this whole thing around, one non-purchase at a time.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 12, 2009, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2009, 03:11:39 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 12, 2009, 03:05:09 PM
One thing we learned from HOI2 is that its released when they need to meet a financial deadline, not when the game is necessarily in shape for the marketplace. That attitude is a cancer in the software industry.
Well they are businesses. Can't very well say, no pay checks for the next few months guys, the product isn't ready.
I realize that in the intellectual sense. As a consumer (or a sysadmin being given responsibility for a new product to support)I have a problem with paying money for something that has problems out of the box, problems that the vendor knew about and decided to adopt an attitude that 'we'll fix it later', after they get my payment. I don't mean obscure or rare problems that could crop up in any complex system, but stuff like the entire fucking Luftwaffe flying off to be destroyed over Scotland because the flight AI is screwed from the start. Or this IC thing.
Most other industries can't get away with this shit. Imagine selling TV's that will suddenly shut off after 15 minutes of use and telling customers that its "just a bug and a patch will be released in a few days." Or an entire line of cars that are shipped with only three tires, ya gonna tell the customers that they'll receive the fourth in the mail? I sometimes feel that way when talking with developers.
Aye, such is the problem with software in general. Coding is a imprecise art.
I don't think its entirely fair to compare them to other goods like TVs but...certainly games should be tested more thoroughly before release. Taking for instance the software used in power stations as a comparison is fairer. It doesn't have to be near this massive level (or else testing will dwarf actually making it...) but the current situation is lame.
But...people keep buying. They've no reason to change.
Anyone have a clue what the sales figures of paradox games are? Was EU3 their biggest ever? Is this on course to be?
Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2009, 06:48:27 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 10:44:35 PM
And Japan, for that matter. Even if far as effectiveness goes that may have been more of a matter of internal propaganda--but anticommunism was an aggressively-pushed rationale for the war in China.
To be fair, Japan used just about everything as a propaganda to support the war. It was anti-communist, anti-warlord, a mission civilisatrice, anti-imperialist, and pan-Asiatic.
Valid point. At least they were
actually anticommunist, though--they surely weren't anti-imperialist unless you define the term rather weirdly.
It's interesting, there are some parallels that can be drawn between Japan's pan-Asian propaganda and various third world liberation movements later, e.g., pan-Asianism and pan-Arabism both effectively serving as justifications for imperialism (in Egypt's case, at the expense of Syria and and of course Israel) as well as the military's effective control over policy. RotWers: never learn? :bowler:
Quote from: Tyr on August 12, 2009, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 12, 2009, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2009, 03:11:39 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 12, 2009, 03:05:09 PM
One thing we learned from HOI2 is that its released when they need to meet a financial deadline, not when the game is necessarily in shape for the marketplace. That attitude is a cancer in the software industry.
Well they are businesses. Can't very well say, no pay checks for the next few months guys, the product isn't ready.
I realize that in the intellectual sense. As a consumer (or a sysadmin being given responsibility for a new product to support)I have a problem with paying money for something that has problems out of the box, problems that the vendor knew about and decided to adopt an attitude that 'we'll fix it later', after they get my payment. I don't mean obscure or rare problems that could crop up in any complex system, but stuff like the entire fucking Luftwaffe flying off to be destroyed over Scotland because the flight AI is screwed from the start. Or this IC thing.
Most other industries can't get away with this shit. Imagine selling TV's that will suddenly shut off after 15 minutes of use and telling customers that its "just a bug and a patch will be released in a few days." Or an entire line of cars that are shipped with only three tires, ya gonna tell the customers that they'll receive the fourth in the mail? I sometimes feel that way when talking with developers.
Aye, such is the problem with software in general. Coding is a imprecise art.
I don't think its entirely fair to compare them to other goods like TVs but...certainly games should be tested more thoroughly before release. Taking for instance the software used in power stations as a comparison is fairer. It doesn't have to be near this massive level (or else testing will dwarf actually making it...) but the current situation is lame.
But...people keep buying. They've no reason to change.
Anyone have a clue what the sales figures of paradox games are? Was EU3 their biggest ever? Is this on course to be?
The growth of the internet is partly to blame for the current situation. Back in the early-to-mid nineties, buggy games quit selling pretty quickly through bad word of mouth, because the only way most people had to patch them was if the publisher mailed them a patch disc. As the internet became more popular, it became practical to download patches--which was a good thing, but it had the bad side-effect that publishers could now more easily wave off problems by saying, "Oh, we'll fix that with a patch".
I think EUIII was the best-selling game that Paradox has done, but I'm not sure. I have no idea if HOI3 is on target to sell more.
HoI3 got an 8.5 from gamespot. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Kleves on August 13, 2009, 06:30:12 PM
HoI3 got an 8.5 from gamespot. :rolleyes:
Swedish bribes are still working.
QuoteEvents never stray very far from the plausible, either, which makes games captivating for alt-history fans.
:D
Quote from: Habbaku on August 13, 2009, 06:33:47 PM
Quote from: Kleves on August 13, 2009, 06:30:12 PM
HoI3 got an 8.5 from gamespot. :rolleyes:
Swedish bribes are still working.
I didn't think they still even reviewed PC games.
Quote from: Habbaku on August 13, 2009, 06:33:47 PM
Quote from: Kleves on August 13, 2009, 06:30:12 PM
HoI3 got an 8.5 from gamespot. :rolleyes:
Swedish bribes are still working.
8.5 Steel per day in exchange for Good Reviews?
Either the AI is handing out military access like its expiry date is next week or there is some silliness like unlimited AI naval range again.
As the US, I expect the first invasion to be in the Philipines. I do not expect it to be by an Italian division. :elvis:
The threat system, which seems like a great idea really, makes for weird results. Germany is very, very scary to the French, so they just mass all they have on the Maginot line, forgetting Italy is in the Axis. A week after war breaks out, Balbo and Graziani welcome the Duce to Paris to have some wine and cheese and check out the Louvre. And, the UK thinks Italia is really, really frightening and put all their forces in Egypt and leave it to Winston's killer speeches to stave off the Germans. The Germans bathe their feet in the finest whisky two months later, while the Royal Navy is patrolling the waters outside of Honshu.
I also quite did not except Anchorage to fall to the Wehrmacht. But, life, especially in HoI3, is full of surprises.
All this has led me to believe I might want to wait for a patch before I try my hands at this again. The tech tree, or tech forest really, is great, the new system of HQs and stuff too, but really, Italians attacking Manila? :bleeding: :outback: :yeahright: :frusty: :pope:
There is unlimited naval range for the AI. :( I hope its just by lack of time to code a proper naval AI and will be changed.
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2009, 03:30:01 AM
There is unlimited naval range for the AI. :( I hope its just by lack of time to code a proper naval AI and will be changed.
Yeah, I realised that when Ranger Taskforce barely could make it out of Norfolk before having to refuel. :D
To be honest I'd rather something easily modable, like the AI (which is script-based, no?) is broken, rather than the underlying mechanics.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 12, 2009, 03:57:32 PM
Most other industries can't get away with this shit. Imagine selling TV's that will suddenly shut off after 15 minutes of use and telling customers that its "just a bug and a patch will be released in a few days."
Get used to the thought. TVs are are becoming pretty complicated and there are tons of software-failures in modern TVs. HDMI-protocols not working, tuners malfunctioning, channel placement wrong, DVB-subtitling not working etc. Sony/Samsung/etc. spend are moving into the update business big time (socalled Over the Air agreements with network providers) and internet connectivity will only hasten that trend.
Quote from: bogh on August 14, 2009, 04:31:55 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 12, 2009, 03:57:32 PM
Most other industries can't get away with this shit. Imagine selling TV's that will suddenly shut off after 15 minutes of use and telling customers that its "just a bug and a patch will be released in a few days."
Get used to the thought. TVs are are becoming pretty complicated and there are tons of software-failures in modern TVs. HDMI-protocols not working, tuners malfunctioning, channel placement wrong, DVB-subtitling not working etc. Sony/Samsung/etc. spend are moving into the update business big time (socalled Over the Air agreements with network providers) and internet connectivity will only hasten that trend.
My TV has an ethernet connection for firmware updates. I've never had to use it, thank God, although it's conceivable that I might to make it work with my new computer's Radeon card's HDMI out. I rather hope I don't have to find out if Olevia--which I believe experienced some rather bad financial woes soon after I bought the set--or whoever bought them, is still supporting the T247.
Quote from: TamasThere is unlimited naval range for the AI.
Man, if this is so, fuck you, Paradox. Johan said
specifically in the development diaries that an unlimited naval range for AIs would not be in HoI3. The Pacific War has always been fucked in HoI games, but I thought this one would be different.
And yet, I shouldn't be surprised if they don't even care enough to unfuck it, given the shit state of naval warfare in general in previous HoIs, and the atrociously poorly modeled Sino-Japanese War, you know, the root cause of the Pacific War, that only a few fucking
dozen million people died in. I mean, if they don't care about the Goddamned Pacific War, why the fuck do they keep making games that include the Goddamned Pacific War!
Ragh! :ultra:
Quote from: Viking8.5 Steel per day in exchange for Good Reviews?
Perfidious bastards, the lot of you! Ships have ranges! :ultra:
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2009, 03:30:01 AM
There is unlimited naval range for the AI. :( I hope its just by lack of time to code a proper naval AI and will be changed.
This I don't like. Not a game breaker but there's strategy to trying to keep ports out an enemy's hands, and keeping your rear naval areas relatively safe. Navies have replenishment at sea which could be modeled but having an AI naval force able to go around the world with no bases or allied bases to refuel in gets too messy. In fact, it may be more a problem for the AI if it can invade in far off places since air/ground/naval units are more easily isolated. And for damaged ships, they have a long way to get to a friendly port, so may be more likely sunk in additional attacks.
Quote from: Norgy on August 14, 2009, 03:25:25 AM
...the new system of HQs and stuff too,
I kept detaching divisions from HQ units but couldn't attach those to higher HQ units. I wanted to play the US 1936 and reoganize its armed forces like thus:
- United States Central Command (Washington)
* Unites States Navy (Norfolk)
> Atlantic Command (Norfolk)
> Pacific Command (Los Angeles)
> 1st Fleet (main battle fleet - Hawai)
> 2nd Fleet (Seatle)
> 3rd Fleet (carrier TF - San Diego)
Well you get the picture. I couldn't attach a marine commander to any of those HQs... Perhaps they're intended only for land forces? And what's with the create a new HQ button?
G.
Useful for when you have detached a few divisions (like some Marines to take an island) and need to re-link and re-supply them within a chain of command. Create a new HQ and you won't suffer from the enormous penalties from lack of supplies and stacking.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 12, 2009, 03:57:32 PM
Or an entire line of cars that are shipped with only three tires, ya gonna tell the customers that they'll receive the fourth in the mail?
Toyota had to recall 160,000 Prius made between 2004 and 2005 to upgrade the software on them. Expect to see more of that in the future.
Fine. YOu scum have destroyed my will to live. I'm gonna become a Linux user.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 14, 2009, 05:24:49 PM
Fine. YOu scum have destroyed my will to live. I'm gonna become a Linux user.
At least you aren't switching to Apple.
Quote from: Grallon on August 14, 2009, 10:09:27 AM
Quote from: Norgy on August 14, 2009, 03:25:25 AM
...the new system of HQs and stuff too,
I kept detaching divisions from HQ units but couldn't attach those to higher HQ units. I wanted to play the US 1936 and reoganize its armed forces like thus:
- United States Central Command (Washington)
* Unites States Navy (Norfolk)
> Atlantic Command (Norfolk)
> Pacific Command (Los Angeles)
> 1st Fleet (main battle fleet - Hawai)
> 2nd Fleet (Seatle)
> 3rd Fleet (carrier TF - San Diego)
Well you get the picture. I couldn't attach a marine commander to any of those HQs... Perhaps they're intended only for land forces? And what's with the create a new HQ button?
G.
Air and Naval stacks only function as add-ons (so to speak) for land commands. You can't have them as separate commands.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 14, 2009, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 14, 2009, 05:24:49 PM
Fine. YOu scum have destroyed my will to live. I'm gonna become a Linux user.
At least you aren't switching to Apple.
:(
Quote from: Sahib on August 14, 2009, 05:53:23 PM
Air and Naval stacks only function as add-ons (so to speak) for land commands. You can't have them as separate commands.
Boooh! :thumbsdown:
G.
Quote from: Grallon on August 14, 2009, 08:36:24 PM
Boooh! :thumbsdown:
G.
Yeah, it's weird and hopefully something they change.
Hey gang, remember the last time we hoped for change?
Ah yes. The Euro's new messiah was elected.
Quote from: Sahib on August 14, 2009, 05:53:23 PM
Air and Naval stacks only function as add-ons (so to speak) for land commands. You can't have them as separate commands.
That's fucking faggotry. Eurocentric shitheads. I hope their game is pirated and they have to get jobs at Jack In The Box.
My panzer armies strolled into Moscow and Stalingrad in the summer of 1941 without a single enemy unit in opposition. Leningrad was well defended, but only because I didn't exploit a naval invasion. If I had, that city would have also fallen without opposition. Naval invasions in general are far too easy. The AI doesn't even bother to defend sea side provinces from invasion.
The invasion of the Soviet Union is a ridiculously imbalanced. The Soviets do not have the ability to reconstitute their initial army before I'm at the Urals.
I'd suggest that the effect of muddy terrain and rain/snow be ramped up substantially. Lower the infrastructure of Eastern Poland / Western Russia substantially. In in order to reconstitute their army after the initial blitz, the Soviets AI will probably need a shit ton of free units and back line fortifications from events in order to give the player a reasonable challenge.
Another issue that people have pointed out is that Italy utterly crushes France once the war starts.
I believe what happens is France seems to think (rightly, to a point) that Germany is the bigger threat, so the AI only leaves a few divisions to defend against Italy. Italy, of course, considers France to be the biggest threat on their borders, so they stack their armies on the border and kick the shit out of whatever crappy forces the frogs leave there.
I just tried to slow down the Italian onslaught with my meager South African Expeditionary Forces and ended up losing two infantry divisions and a corps HQ for my efforts as I was zerged mercilessly by greasy haired dudes with Tommy guns. I couldn't even slow them down (well...locally I did, I guess) with heroic counterattacks from my lone armored division. :Embarrass:
The British, meanwhile, have said "Fuck France," and went and invaded Sardinia instead of helping their allies. I'm thinking the same thing. I'll go for a North African land grab. The Italian Navy is getting smoked by the RN, so I'm pretty sure I could sneak in there, grab a port, and spread like a virus over their territory. If not....welp...I guess I can withdraw to Sardinia.
At least it's just a same result from different causes, though--France falling.
The reports of China nearly always destroying Japan on the Asian continent are far more disturbing.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 01:17:50 AM
At least it's just a same result from different causes, though--France falling.
Yeah. Germany gets France and Vichy is formed, etc, even if it's the Italians doing the asskicking.
QuoteThe reports of China nearly always destroying Japan on the Asian continent are far more disturbing.
TBH, this has never happened to me, although I play from the '36 scenario exclusively. Japan seems to crush everything even remotely resembling China. In this current game, they've annexed Nat and Commie China, made a puppet of Shanxi (?), and are working on Guangxi and Xibei San Ma. They've made a successful amphibious landing on Hainan and are moving north up that way. Edit: It's 30 Dec, 1939, btw. The war in Europe started on May 1.
Edit2: And it just CTDed for the first time while autosaving. <_< At least I had it set to save monthly.
Japan often steamrolling China is probably just as bad, though. :(
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 01:38:24 AM
Japan often steamrolling China is probably just as bad, though. :(
Seems like it just needs a little tweaking, at least for my games. Slow down the Japs a little (more than a little, I guess), but don't make the Chinese an unstoppable juggernaut that lands a million dudes in Tokyo by '41.
I have no idea how one would go about doing that though.
Well in my British game I could not stop the entire Italian army which was invading France, so I just landed in Naples and reached Milan, never facing more than 2 Italian divisions at once at any given day.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 15, 2009, 01:46:20 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 01:38:24 AM
Japan often steamrolling China is probably just as bad, though. :(
Seems like it just needs a little tweaking, at least for my games. Slow down the Japs a little (more than a little, I guess), but don't make the Chinese an unstoppable juggernaut that lands a million dudes in Tokyo by '41.
I have no idea how one would go about doing that though.
Neither do I. I spent weeks trying to mod a solution into HoI2, but no matter what, I either overpowered China or Japan and one or the other would acheive total victory on the continent no later than early 1942. There are two problems that I identified that could not be readily solved:
1)The land combat model: the failure to include a sophisticated logistics model permitted unrealistic advantages for whatever side happened to be winning. For what it's worth, this also made the Russo-German conflict less accurate than it could have been. This might be different in 3, which seems to have a more advanced logistics model.
2)The political model: there is no politico-military incentive for Japan to not swallow all China whole, and the political model strongly favors outright conquest over negotiated settlement or partition, but this was never Japan's goal in China.
A suitably nuanced event string could probably have done it, but this was more research than I felt like doing, particularly since I had bigger fish to fry, like the aforementioned problem with the Eastern Front closing too soon, and eventually I just gave up. (I also did something, and I've never found out what, that broke my mod copy of the game, so that dented my enthusiasm quite a bit. :lol:)
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 01:17:50 AM
At least it's just a same result from different causes, though--France falling.
The reports of China nearly always destroying Japan on the Asian continent are far more disturbing.
It's not even all of China. It's Shanxi that's overrunning Manchuria/Korea. And yeah, it's happened in all three of the games that I've played from 1936 to 1942 so far.
I'm most shocked that Paradox did such a piss poor job in developing the Eastern Front. HOI2 is light years ahead in terms of difficultly and realism. I guess this might have something to do with the Consumer Goods bug. Most of the Soviet's IC is tied up in either that or supplies, so any annihilated brigades cannot be replaced unless you have a massive supply stockpile.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 02:17:49 AM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 15, 2009, 01:46:20 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 01:38:24 AM
Japan often steamrolling China is probably just as bad, though. :(
Seems like it just needs a little tweaking, at least for my games. Slow down the Japs a little (more than a little, I guess), but don't make the Chinese an unstoppable juggernaut that lands a million dudes in Tokyo by '41.
I have no idea how one would go about doing that though.
Neither do I. I spent weeks trying to mod a solution into HoI2, but no matter what, I either overpowered China or Japan and one or the other would acheive total victory on the continent no later than early 1942. There are two problems that I identified that could not be readily solved:
1)The land combat model: the failure to include a sophisticated logistics model permitted unrealistic advantages for whatever side happened to be winning. For what it's worth, this also made the Russo-German conflict less accurate than it could have been. This might be different in 3, which seems to have a more advanced logistics model.
2)The political model: there is no politico-military incentive for Japan to not swallow all China whole, and the political model strongly favors outright conquest over negotiated settlement or partition, but this was never Japan's goal in China.
A suitably nuanced event string could probably have done it, but this was more research than I felt like doing, particularly since I had bigger fish to fry, like the aforementioned problem with the Eastern Front closing too soon, and eventually I just gave up. (I also did something, and I've never found out what, that broke my mod copy of the game, so that dented my enthusiasm quite a bit. :lol:)
I'd figure the easiest way to slow the war down is to lower the infrastructure to 0 in all provinces and add high level land forts in the "core" regions of Japanese (so, Korea and Manchuria) and Chinese area control (inner mountainous regions).
Quote from: Tamas on August 15, 2009, 02:11:39 AM
Well in my British game I could not stop the entire Italian army which was invading France, so I just landed in Naples and reached Milan, never facing more than 2 Italian divisions at once at any given day.
Ah goddammit...I think I waited too long to try this. The CAGs that make up the South African Air Force ( :cool:) have been spotting significant Italian forces in the middle of the boot there headed down south to fuck me up again. I made it across the straits without significant resistance, but it appears that's about to end in a big way.
Edit: Blammo 30,000 badguys in Cosenza. And the fuckers are attacking my convoys now.
Oh and if you do manage to defeat Italy: the whole fascist-nazi italian puppet state event is completely fubared (triggers when italy surrenders but to make italy surrender you need to capture all VP cities including the ones the puppet state will form on) so when you insta-conquer mussolini's little-italy, make sure to annex it, or suffer horrendous supply consequences.
Quote from: Tamas on August 15, 2009, 04:11:54 AM
Oh and if you do manage to defeat Italy: the whole fascist-nazi italian puppet state event is completely fubared (triggers when italy surrenders but to make italy surrender you need to capture all VP cities including the ones the puppet state will form on) so when you insta-conquer mussolini's little-italy, make sure to annex it, or suffer horrendous supply consequences.
Hm...sounds like that event needs to be tinkered with to only include the Southern Italy VPs (Rome, Naples, Taranto, and Palermo) or something.
Edit: Or does the new country form simply when Italy surrenders without a specific event? If so, IIRC, you can make a country surrender by really kicking the shit out of them with strategic bombers, winning battles, etc, without conquering all the VP spots. Invading half of Italy and essentially burning the other half down might be enough to do it. I'll cheat in this SA game and let you know what happens.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 11, 2009, 09:28:48 AM
At risk of stating the obvious, Switzerland should not be joining any wars, period, no matter what the great powers do with their intel. The main purpose of German spies and diplomats in Switzerland should be to keep the price of smuggled, looted gold, not to prevent a surprise attack from the jack-knived armed Alphorn Militia.
:lmfao:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 15, 2009, 01:46:20 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 01:38:24 AM
Japan often steamrolling China is probably just as bad, though. :(
Seems like it just needs a little tweaking, at least for my games. Slow down the Japs a little (more than a little, I guess), but don't make the Chinese an unstoppable juggernaut that lands a million dudes in Tokyo by '41.
I have no idea how one would go about doing that though.
I've never seen any game where China actually landed on anything outside of mainland China. China's starting navy sucks, the AI tends to build millions of infantry divisions, and the IJN is kickass.
^No, that's true. But Japan losing Manchuria and Korea and SE Asia to the RoC is still really bad, just less hilariously, "Goddamn-this-shit-is-broken" bad.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 08:12:29 AM
^No, that's true. But Japan losing Manchuria and Korea and SE Asia to the RoC is still really bad, just less hilariously, "Goddamn-this-shit-is-broken" bad.
Yeah. Still, infantry is cheap, and the Chinese have nothing to do with their IC other than build infantry units. The Japanese player, on the other hand, has to build airplanes and warships.
Actually, I'm playing HOI2 right now, as Japan. I didn't even bother fighting the Chinese. Rather, I started going democratic on the sliders, joined the Allies, and ended up fighting in Europe. While Britain sat uselessly, the US invaded Spain, France and Northern Germany/Poland, while Japan occupied Italy, Southern Germany/Poland, Czechoslovakia, Austria and Romania. Then the Soviets invaded, and while they've pushed their way through Eastern Europe and Germany, I've conquered all of the Soviet Union east of the Urals, with the help of about 70-80 divisions from Canada, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. The Allied AI is pretty stupid, it seems. Britain hasn't done anything, and the only reason that the US broke out of Gibraltar (where they had a stack of 350 divisions) was that I hydrogen bombed the 250-division German stack at Valencia.
:lol:
Finland and Romania don't conquer Russia though anymore?
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 08:55:47 AM
Britain hasn't done anything, and the only reason that the US broke out of Gibraltar (where they had a stack of 350 divisions) was that I hydrogen bombed the 250-division German stack at Valencia.
:lmfao:
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 08:12:29 AM
^No, that's true. But Japan losing Manchuria and Korea and SE Asia to the RoC is still really bad, just less hilariously, "Goddamn-this-shit-is-broken" bad.
They also tend to lose Taiwan. China thankfully doesn't invade mainland Japan, although that is more a symptom of shitty naval invasion AI.
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 08:55:47 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 08:12:29 AM
^No, that's true. But Japan losing Manchuria and Korea and SE Asia to the RoC is still really bad, just less hilariously, "Goddamn-this-shit-is-broken" bad.
Yeah. Still, infantry is cheap, and the Chinese have nothing to do with their IC other than build infantry units. The Japanese player, on the other hand, has to build airplanes and warships.
Actually, I'm playing HOI2 right now, as Japan. I didn't even bother fighting the Chinese. Rather, I started going democratic on the sliders, joined the Allies, and ended up fighting in Europe. While Britain sat uselessly, the US invaded Spain, France and Northern Germany/Poland, while Japan occupied Italy, Southern Germany/Poland, Czechoslovakia, Austria and Romania. Then the Soviets invaded, and while they've pushed their way through Eastern Europe and Germany, I've conquered all of the Soviet Union east of the Urals, with the help of about 70-80 divisions from Canada, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. The Allied AI is pretty stupid, it seems. Britain hasn't done anything, and the only reason that the US broke out of Gibraltar (where they had a stack of 350 divisions) was that I hydrogen bombed the 250-division German stack at Valencia.
Six million men on Gibraltar! :lol:
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 06:46:38 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 08:55:47 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2009, 08:12:29 AM
^No, that's true. But Japan losing Manchuria and Korea and SE Asia to the RoC is still really bad, just less hilariously, "Goddamn-this-shit-is-broken" bad.
Yeah. Still, infantry is cheap, and the Chinese have nothing to do with their IC other than build infantry units. The Japanese player, on the other hand, has to build airplanes and warships.
Actually, I'm playing HOI2 right now, as Japan. I didn't even bother fighting the Chinese. Rather, I started going democratic on the sliders, joined the Allies, and ended up fighting in Europe. While Britain sat uselessly, the US invaded Spain, France and Northern Germany/Poland, while Japan occupied Italy, Southern Germany/Poland, Czechoslovakia, Austria and Romania. Then the Soviets invaded, and while they've pushed their way through Eastern Europe and Germany, I've conquered all of the Soviet Union east of the Urals, with the help of about 70-80 divisions from Canada, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. The Allied AI is pretty stupid, it seems. Britain hasn't done anything, and the only reason that the US broke out of Gibraltar (where they had a stack of 350 divisions) was that I hydrogen bombed the 250-division German stack at Valencia.
Six million men on Gibraltar! :lol:
You're making half of Languish hard.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 15, 2009, 12:37:46 AM
Another issue that people have pointed out is that Italy utterly crushes France once the war starts.
I believe what happens is France seems to think (rightly, to a point) that Germany is the bigger threat, so the AI only leaves a few divisions to defend against Italy. Italy, of course, considers France to be the biggest threat on their borders, so they stack their armies on the border and kick the shit out of whatever crappy forces the frogs leave there.
Historically, the French didn't have much defending the Italian border, but were still able to stop the Italians in their tracks. But what happened historically is hard to re-create in a game. The Italians didn't even join the war until the Germans had already broken through in the north, and then they attacked without even mobilizing their divisions. In a game, the Italians aren't going to attack without mobilizing first (even if they aren't allowed to mobilize until after they enter the war, they aren't going to attack until they mobilize unless they are forced to do so).
It's also quite possible that the game doesn't give the French defenders as big a terrain advantage as they had IRL.
They had some fortifications down there as well. Still the French didn't have a bad army and the Italians did.
What about slider automation? Can't they have a system like HOI2:ARMA had for the production sliders? I find it immensely annoying to have to adjust sliders every time something happens.
AFAIK, there is a problem with supply calculation that completely destroys the soviet capacity to produce anything.
I think this thread needs to go on a break until 1.2 comes out.
Already there. :cool:
Quote from: Slargos on August 16, 2009, 04:29:43 AM
I think this thread needs to go on a break until 1.2 comes out.
Yeah, 1.2 ought to be a massive improvement if it hits everything Johan said they were working on:
QuoteOur goals includes.
- New autocontrols for sliders and trade agreements.
- Severe performance improvement.
- New mapmode for simplified terrain. (hoi2 style)
- Day&Night indications
- Cancellation of orders
- Revised Technology Setup for all scenarios.
- Improved Invasion & Theatre AI.
& of course, fixing reported bugs.
He give a rough estimation as to when it may be done by chance?
Quote from: Alcibiades on August 16, 2009, 09:42:38 AM
He give a rough estimation as to when it may be done by chance?
Last week he said a week or two, don't know if that has been changed yet or not.
EDIT: LAte August, maybe the first week of September.
Thanks, that's the next time I'll try it. :)
Just had an update from Johan int he last 30 minutes.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422360
QuoteHi guys, just wanted to give you an update on how 1.2 is progressing.
So far we've eradicated lot of common problems like savegames breaking, slowdown when using some interface screens over time, and also improved the gamespeed quite a bit.
The AI has also been given quite alot of work, mostly in regards to invasions and unit allocation/placement in theatres.
All countries have gotten revised land doctrine setups now, and the team have been adressing reported issues with the OOB.
We've also made officer ratio more useful, cags more deadly and fixed a few common exploits.
It is still about 2 weeks of fixes left before it can go live..
Here is a screenshot of a new "simplified terrain" mapmode. We're still working on a terrain rebalance.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2FHOI3%2Fnewmapmode.jpg&hash=a3ac6859327be67a1db75dc021ab0d0b9cd738dc)
Map sucks.
I quite like the old terrain especially on higher zoom levels; however, I almost exclusively play on the Political / VP map modes.
I think Paradox titles could benefit from a hybrid political/terrain map mode, personally.
I,too, only play on political map mode.
Quote from: Kleves on August 16, 2009, 12:59:14 PM
Map sucks.
:lol:
I like it, looking forward to the new mapmode. At least they're listening.
Hm. When a government in exile uses the meager amount of manpower they get to form an army and conquer...say...Sardinia....the territory just becomes controlled by the head of the faction (in this case the UK), instead of the government in exile (Poland). This also happens if you retake some of your own home territory. It shows up as being controlled by the UK.
Kind of an irritating thing. I was hoping to occupy some property there to be able to get my manpower at least moving up a little bit so I could reinforce my troops, etc, maybe build an airfield, etc...just make my own shitty little Poland in the middle of the Med, but noooo...
The Italians stationed there kicked my ass anyway. :P
As a side note, there is a Sexxicolors mod out that looks pretty nice. There's also one that takes the stupid "fold marks" and the grid thing off the map when you're zoomed out.
QuoteHm. When a government in exile uses the meager amount of manpower they get to form an army and conquer...say...Sardinia....the territory just becomes controlled by the head of the faction (in this case the UK), instead of the government in exile (Poland). This also happens if you retake some of your own home territory. It shows up as being controlled by the UK.
Well, yes, that is what happened historically. The Poles didn't carve out swathes of Italy and Normandy
or even Poland when they (re)entered these territories, especially in game terms. Indeed there was an almighty row over control of liberated French territory (and for this an event should be suitable for control returning to French hands at the appropriate point).
So basically this game is yet another uncooked delivery from Paradox? We have to wait 3-4 patches before it becomes playable I suppose.
G.
Quote from: Warspite on August 17, 2009, 08:04:16 AM
Well, yes, that is what happened historically. The Poles didn't carve out swathes of Italy and Normandy or even Poland when they (re)entered these territories, especially in game terms. Indeed there was an almighty row over control of liberated French territory (and for this an event should be suitable for control returning to French hands at the appropriate point).
Yes that's wonderful and all, except you, as a player of a video game and not a government in the 1940's, can't really do shit with the government in exile, unless perhaps you're France (although they probably don't fall into the "government in exile" category, since they actually have territory left and all).
Even a small trickle of manpower, which is what I was after in Cagliari, would work wonders for this part of the game (you get IC from nowhere, why can't you get some manpower from somewhere? Surely there are some expats or something you can recruit...maybe people who have escaped from wherever...maybe just some people made up out of thin air for gameplay purposes...maybe just allow some occupied territories with the usual penalties on resources and shit). You could at least have an independent brigade or two doing some actual fighting somewhere. Maybe drop some bombs. Maybe torpedo some ships. Anything except sit there unable to repair your surviving aircraft and ships while watching your two brigades hang out in London or wherever.
It seems the best I can do right now is immediately disband the militia that pops up in occupied Poland for the 2 manpower they give me. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Warspite on August 17, 2009, 08:04:16 AM
QuoteHm. When a government in exile uses the meager amount of manpower they get to form an army and conquer...say...Sardinia....the territory just becomes controlled by the head of the faction (in this case the UK), instead of the government in exile (Poland). This also happens if you retake some of your own home territory. It shows up as being controlled by the UK.
Well, yes, that is what happened historically. The Poles didn't carve out swathes of Italy and Normandy or even Poland when they (re)entered these territories
Historically speaking, when did Polish exile forces re-enter Polish territory? 'Cause if they did so during the war, it's news to me.
Quote from: Slargos on August 16, 2009, 01:55:41 PM
I think Paradox titles could benefit from a hybrid political/terrain map mode, personally.
I like this. It has meaningful for gameplay, easy-to-discern terrain, and red national borders. not sure what else you want to see? shading for supply/control?
Quote from: dps on August 18, 2009, 12:13:40 AM
Quote from: Warspite on August 17, 2009, 08:04:16 AM
QuoteHm. When a government in exile uses the meager amount of manpower they get to form an army and conquer...say...Sardinia....the territory just becomes controlled by the head of the faction (in this case the UK), instead of the government in exile (Poland). This also happens if you retake some of your own home territory. It shows up as being controlled by the UK.
Well, yes, that is what happened historically. The Poles didn't carve out swathes of Italy and Normandy or even Poland when they (re)entered these territories
Historically speaking, when did Polish exile forces re-enter Polish territory? 'Cause if they did so during the war, it's news to me.
1944. Polish formations in the Red Army aka "Polish People's Army"
Quote from: saskganesh on August 18, 2009, 10:16:59 AM
Quote from: dps on August 18, 2009, 12:13:40 AM
Quote from: Warspite on August 17, 2009, 08:04:16 AM
QuoteHm. When a government in exile uses the meager amount of manpower they get to form an army and conquer...say...Sardinia....the territory just becomes controlled by the head of the faction (in this case the UK), instead of the government in exile (Poland). This also happens if you retake some of your own home territory. It shows up as being controlled by the UK.
Well, yes, that is what happened historically. The Poles didn't carve out swathes of Italy and Normandy or even Poland when they (re)entered these territories
Historically speaking, when did Polish exile forces re-enter Polish territory? 'Cause if they did so during the war, it's news to me.
1944. Polish formations in the Red Army aka "Polish People's Army"
The weren't under the control of the Polish government in exile.
Quote from: dps on August 18, 2009, 01:58:00 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on August 18, 2009, 10:16:59 AM
Quote from: dps on August 18, 2009, 12:13:40 AM
Quote from: Warspite on August 17, 2009, 08:04:16 AM
QuoteHm. When a government in exile uses the meager amount of manpower they get to form an army and conquer...say...Sardinia....the territory just becomes controlled by the head of the faction (in this case the UK), instead of the government in exile (Poland). This also happens if you retake some of your own home territory. It shows up as being controlled by the UK.
Well, yes, that is what happened historically. The Poles didn't carve out swathes of Italy and Normandy or even Poland when they (re)entered these territories
Historically speaking, when did Polish exile forces re-enter Polish territory? 'Cause if they did so during the war, it's news to me.
1944. Polish formations in the Red Army aka "Polish People's Army"
The weren't under the control of the Polish government in exile.
sure. but they were the core of the
next Polish government and from 44 on , were administered out of Poland, drawing replacements, recruits and supplies from the country directly.
In this case, it was me, player controlled Poland, doing the retaking of Polish territories (and any other territories) on my own, with my own pathetic army, etc, and having it become occupied territory of the UK (UK colored stripes instead of German colored stripes). The USSR wasn't involved in the war at all, and no one but the Polish govt in exile was controlling the troops. It also happens when it's the rebels/revolters (which I can control, and are almost worthless) taking territory.
I wonder if the UK, when this happens, gets the whole "collaboration government" and such options in the politics screen. If so, it would also mean they would get whatever IC, etc, percentage that offers, and Poland wouldn't.
Anyway, I went ahead and made an event that gives me some manpower to mess around with and made a little Polish Exp. Corps. Much MUCH more fun with that, since you can go around and help in various places, etc, but you're still quite limited in what you can do.
One thing though: It doesn't seem to want to make a theater/theater HQ, presumably because I hold no territory, so when I turn on AI control for my units, they don't do anything. Not a big deal, since I don't have many divisions (3+a couple HQs), but if you went and build up a more substantial force, it could get complicated, I guess. It also means you can't assign your air and naval units to their own army groups, set the objectives for the AI, and ignore them (again though, since you don't have much, it's not too big of a deal...the AI can be pretty cool about controlling air units though..it'll even resupply units on it's own if they're running low and it has transports).
What has been said on this thread about the beta tester involvement - maybe they should take a page out of Stardock's handbook: offer everyone who preorders access to the beta testing (with a closed alpha/gamma at start/end).
I'm having no small trouble figuring out how to arrange all the HQs, army and corps.
Quote from: Syt on August 20, 2009, 04:38:23 AM
What has been said on this thread about the beta tester involvement - maybe they should take a page out of Stardock's handbook: offer everyone who preorders access to the beta testing (with a closed alpha/gamma at start/end).
That is, generally speaking, a good model, but after seeing the mental asylum which has been the HoI3 forums, I think it would be a horrible idea to de facto release to the public an early beta Paradox product.
Also, it seems like if I give units orders to support attack, and then an attack happens, then they support the attack but lose their orders afterward. So that if another enemy unit shows up in the target area before my attacking army arrives and another battle begins, the support units don't join in.
Quote from: Grallon on August 17, 2009, 08:08:22 AM
So basically this game is yet another uncooked delivery from Paradox? We have to wait 3-4 patches before it becomes playable I suppose.
G.
With 1.1c it's actually playable, but not great. The biggest problem is performance--I suspect a lot of it is my shitty current computer, but I hear a lot of complaints even from people with similar systems to my new one. One of the biggest things on Paradox' hitlist for 1.2 is performance optimization; hopefully this means better support for the capabilities of dual and quad-core processors.
Now I could be wrong here--but if I understand it correctly, it seems like an awful odd decision to go to a needless 3D engine that requires modern graphics cards, but continue code the game that doesn't do anything to take advantage or even make it fully compatible with modern CPUs.
My only huge gameplay problem right now, other than some interface issues (consolidating a corps, army, or army group is annoying, because you can't select all and redeploy to a province any individual formation is in), some unnecessary opacity (Germany doesn't know how much IC there is in London without hovering Goddamn planes over it? what?; why is my national unity going down so much but Britain's isn't, when I've reduced her convoy fleet by 50% and bombed London and Birmingham into ashes and people goo?), and either weird design decision or bugginess (is an amphibious landing force
supposed to engage only one defending division at a time? :unsure:), is the Sino-Japanese war.
This has to be fixed ASAP, because it breaks the game in the Pacific.
Despite this, I think Paradox is actually back on track with HoI3. It'll take some time, and as much as I would love to--and surely I will--bitch about it not being fully implemented in 1.0, I think it's a good start. A damn sight better than HoI2 or EU3, and light years ahead of the complete failure of design and imagination that was Rome. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I don't totally regret buying this game! :o
Also, soon the map won't suck anymore.
Edit: oh, and I forgot--diplomacy needs to be fixed, so that Belgium, Switzerland (wtf), and VICHY FRANCE (:ultra:) ain't joining the Goddamn Comintern.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 20, 2009, 12:55:53 PM
I'm having no small trouble figuring out how to arrange all the HQs, army and corps.
It takes a while, but one gets used to it. I think sometimes HQs randomly disappear, however, which is no small pain in the nuts.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 21, 2009, 09:43:20 AM
I think sometimes HQs randomly disappear, however, which is no small pain in the nuts.
I've only noticed this happening when you click on that define theaters button, which seems to have about a 50/50 chance of just fucking everything up instead of helping you out. Click on it expecting to have a new theater to add to the current two, but when you get back to the map, you suddenly only have one mega theater and the other HQ is gone. Extremely irritating.
I don't know how they would make it so that a user can define his/her own theater (just pick regions, or even countries when you click on the the "define theater" button?) or what it would do to the AI, but goddammit, I want to be able to control that myself.
Anyway....When are your HQ's randomly vanishing? Is it something like an AI controlled HQ in charge of them not wanting your units formed as they are anymore or something, or kinda like what happens when you give command of 4xair units combined to an AI, and it'll split them apart?
^As of yet, I dunno. I only notice it every now and again, when I go to look for an HQ and find out it's vanished.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 21, 2009, 01:17:52 PM
^As of yet, I dunno. I only notice it every now and again, when I go to look for an HQ and find out it's vanished.
If they have bad supply just after you create them they can sometimes wither away before they get a chance to reinforce. I think.
This map is the best-looking one they've ever made, and I love the tons of small provinces. The accuracy, however, is completely atrocious. Most rivers are in more or less fictional places and some of the geography is inexcusable as far as city placement and province names. Blah. New York City is in New Jersey. So is Philly.
The gameplay is also really buggy right now. I'll probably keep trying the game I'm currently running just to play around with it and learn the thing, but I'm not getting to invested in it timewise until patches are forthcoming. To be fair, I'm pretty sure Pdox is putting the vast majority of their resources into patching it as quickly as possible.
The geographical inaccuracies should bug me more, I know, but they don't. I can understand the frustration a lot of people have about them, though, given that it should have been the easiest thing in the whole game to get right.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 21, 2009, 02:58:36 PM
The geographical inaccuracies should bug me more, I know, but they don't. I can understand the frustration a lot of people have about them, though, given that it should have been the easiest thing in the whole game to get right.
Come on dude, Stalingrad more to the east than Rostov? puhleaze
Quote from: sbr on August 16, 2009, 12:00:09 PM
Just had an update from Johan int he last 30 minutes.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422360
QuoteHi guys, just wanted to give you an update on how 1.2 is progressing.
So far we've eradicated lot of common problems like savegames breaking, slowdown when using some interface screens over time, and also improved the gamespeed quite a bit.
The AI has also been given quite alot of work, mostly in regards to invasions and unit allocation/placement in theatres.
All countries have gotten revised land doctrine setups now, and the team have been adressing reported issues with the OOB.
We've also made officer ratio more useful, cags more deadly and fixed a few common exploits.
It is still about 2 weeks of fixes left before it can go live..
Here is a screenshot of a new "simplified terrain" mapmode. We're still working on a terrain rebalance.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2FHOI3%2Fnewmapmode.jpg&hash=a3ac6859327be67a1db75dc021ab0d0b9cd738dc)
Well, that's encouraging.
Setting processor affinity to a single core made an insane amount of difference in game speed, BTW.
So the game doesn't run properly on modern, multi-core computers?
Okay...I'm having some difficulty with this event chain here. It probably has something to do with the fact that I've been drinking since noon, but whatever.
###########################
#Release of Colonies TRIGGER
############################
country_event = {
id = 11113
is_triggered_only = yes
title = "Colonies Released"
desc = "asdgadhg"
picture = "fire"
option = {
name = "hurf"
ai_chance = { factor = 0 }
ENG = { country_event = 11114 }
FRA = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11115 }
HOL = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11116 }
duration = -1
}
}
############################
#British Colonies
############################
country_event = {
id = 11114
is_triggered_only = yes
trigger = {
tag = ENG
}
title = "UK Colonies Released"
desc = "safdah"
picture = "fire"
option = {
name = "ydhdf"
ai_chance = { factor = 100 }
release = ISR
release = JOR
release = PAL
release = EGY
release = PAK
release = IND
release = GUY
from = { country_event = 11113 }
}
}
#################################
#French Colonies
#################################
country_event = {
id = 11115
is_triggered_only = yes
trigger = {
tag = FRA
}
title = "FRA Colonies Released"
desc = "dkgasdga"
picture = "fire"
OPTION = {
NAME = "DSGASD"
AI_CHANCE = { FACTOR = 100 }
RELEASE = SYR
RELEASE = LEB
RELEASE = IDC
FROM = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11113 }
}
}
################################
#DUTCH COLONIES
####################################
COUNTRY_EVENT = {
ID = 11116
IS_TRIGGERED_ONLY = YES
TRIGGER = {
TAG = HOL
}
TITLE = "Dutch Colonies Released"
DESC = "FAHDFHH"
PICTURE = "FIRE"
OPTION = {
NAME = "DASDAHFD"
AI_CHANCE = { FACTOR = 100 }
RELEASE = INO
FROM = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11113 }
}
}
When I fire the thing from whichever country, it just immediately pops back up. I put the duration = -1 thing in there hopeing that maybe that has something to do with it, but there was no change. The event works, as in, it releases all of those countries, but the window ( the 11113 window that says the others will happen) just continuously pops up. Maybe add the duration bit to all of them?
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 22, 2009, 05:58:05 PM
Okay...I'm having some difficulty with this event chain here. It probably has something to do with the fact that I've been drinking since noon, but whatever.
###########################
#Release of Colonies TRIGGER
############################
country_event = {
id = 11113
is_triggered_only = yes
title = "Colonies Released"
desc = "asdgadhg"
picture = "fire"
option = {
name = "hurf"
ai_chance = { factor = 0 }
ENG = { country_event = 11114 }
FRA = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11115 }
HOL = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11116 }
duration = -1
}
}
############################
#British Colonies
############################
country_event = {
id = 11114
is_triggered_only = yes
trigger = {
tag = ENG
}
title = "UK Colonies Released"
desc = "safdah"
picture = "fire"
option = {
name = "ydhdf"
ai_chance = { factor = 100 }
release = ISR
release = JOR
release = PAL
release = EGY
release = PAK
release = IND
release = GUY
from = { country_event = 11113 }
}
}
#################################
#French Colonies
#################################
country_event = {
id = 11115
is_triggered_only = yes
trigger = {
tag = FRA
}
title = "FRA Colonies Released"
desc = "dkgasdga"
picture = "fire"
OPTION = {
NAME = "DSGASD"
AI_CHANCE = { FACTOR = 100 }
RELEASE = SYR
RELEASE = LEB
RELEASE = IDC
FROM = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11113 }
}
}
################################
#DUTCH COLONIES
####################################
COUNTRY_EVENT = {
ID = 11116
IS_TRIGGERED_ONLY = YES
TRIGGER = {
TAG = HOL
}
TITLE = "Dutch Colonies Released"
DESC = "FAHDFHH"
PICTURE = "FIRE"
OPTION = {
NAME = "DASDAHFD"
AI_CHANCE = { FACTOR = 100 }
RELEASE = INO
FROM = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11113 }
}
}
When I fire the thing from whichever country, it just immediately pops back up. I put the duration = -1 thing in there hopeing that maybe that has something to do with it, but there was no change. The event works, as in, it releases all of those countries, but the window ( the 11113 window that says the others will happen) just continuously pops up. Maybe add the duration bit to all of them?
What triggers event 11113?
You could use a flag to keep it from firing more than once. Add something like:
NOT = { has_country_flag = released_colonies }
to the triggers, so it will only fire if that flag is not present. Then use
###########################
#Release of Colonies TRIGGER
############################
country_event = {
id = 11113
is_triggered_only = yes
title = "Colonies Released"
desc = "asdgadhg"
picture = "fire"
immediate = {
set_country_flag = released_colonies
} option = {
name = "hurf"
ai_chance = { factor = 0 }
ENG = { country_event = 11114 }
FRA = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11115 }
HOL = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11116 }
duration = -1
}
}
This will add the released_colonies flag keeping it from firing a second time.
That's not working either for some reason. I tried both the "immediate" thing outside of the option, and just a regular set flag thing when you click on "hurf."
Right now, it looks like this:
###########################
#Release of Colonies TRIGGER
############################
country_event = {
id = 11113
trigger = {
NOT = { has_country_flag = released_colonies }
not = { ai = yes }
}
title = "Colonies Released"
desc = "asdgadhg"
picture = "fire"
option = {
name = "hurf"
set_country_flag = released_colonies
ENG = { country_event = 11114 }
FRA = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11115 }
HOL = { COUNTRY_EVENT = 11116 }
}
}
11114 - 11116 are unchanged.
Does the released_colonies flag appear in the save game file or is it not being set at all?
Occasionally the Paradox boards have a great post:
Quote from: brucemoYou can make a map and stick countries on it, but if the game can't identify and perform roles assigned to it by geography and politics, it's just making lemonade out of lemons to say that the game isn't "constrained" by history. It's like saying that a car with no steering wheel or brakes is not "constrained" by the road.
:lmfao:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 23, 2009, 09:23:19 AM
That's not working either for some reason. I tried both the "immediate" thing outside of the option, and just a regular set flag thing when you click on "hurf."
Another thought; it doesn't seem you can set the flag as part of the option, it has to be outside of there, liek I showed before. I am not that familiar with the events/decisions system but in playing around with some other events I can't figure out any other way to set a flag than that.
I have no idea what this is but it is funny.
QuoteSWEDISH SOFTWARE FIRM PACKS UP AND JOINS MONASTERY
Stockholm (AP) (UPI) (CNN)
Swedish PC game developer Paradox shut its doors today after its entire staff quit to join a monastery.
"We've had it with whiners, gripers, complainers and finally death threats - and those were from our fanboys!" Said Paradox Chief Johan to our reporter earlier today. "We did our best but you can never please some people and when we started to go crazy ourselves trying to answer the same questions on our forum over and over again, well, it was just too much!"
The Paradox team jointly conferred overnight and agreed to accept an invitation to join a Russian monastery. "We know its near the old Stalingrad battlefield...we're not too sure where it is, but we're sure we can get there" said Johan as he finished packing. According to other Paradox staffers, Johan had begun to hallucinate that he was actually Benito Mussolini, having gone for weeks with little sleep and few days off while trying to get the latest Paradox game, Hearts of Iron 3, out the door in time. "We'll take care of him, don't worry" the staffers told our reporter as they all got into a wheezing VW van for the trip to Russia.
According to industry insiders, the rights to the upcoming Paradox title, Victoria 2, have been sold to a production company composed of gay Wii programmers, who intend upon converting the title into an
costume themed exercise and yoga game for sexually ambiguous obese people. "It's a growing market" said developer Tootie Fruitiloopy; we intend to fill it, even if we have to bend over backwards to do it."
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=424943 (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=424943)
Quote from: sbr on August 23, 2009, 10:33:05 AM
Does the released_colonies flag appear in the save game file or is it not being set at all?
Hm. It is showing up in the save game file:
GRE={
human=yes
flags={
released_colonies=yes
}
This is from activating the event with the "set flag" bit inside the option, like my "looks like right now" post.
When I first fire it from the console, it...you know...says on the left side "NOT AI," and "Not Flag blahblah," but then when it reactivates itself, those don't pop up over there. So it seems to check for that flag the first time, but not subsequent times.
:unsure: I don't know wtf.
Edit: If I reload, it's not popping up on start, but it
will activate, then get into it's usual loop type thing. Even though that flag is in there, etc. Maybe it's treating the AI part as an "or" kind of deal instead of an "and"???
Quote from: Johan[1.2] Won't be ready this week, should be out next week, god willing.
The following is done since last update.
- Day/night indicator has been added to minimap + provinces.
- More information in unitviews on sizes of units.
- Where Sprites switches to counters can now be set by the player.
- Separate toggles for Production and Slider AI.
and also bugfixes, and AI tweaks.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=425276
Patch 1.2 is up.
I can't figure out how to get it through Steam. Isn't it just supposed to, like, auto-do it?
Note for Tamas: "acquiring" a copy of the patch won't work either, because it just told me it couldn't find HoI3 installed. :P
I miss the old zip archives that you manually configured. So much less opaque about how they worked.
Quote from: Ideologue on September 04, 2009, 02:16:01 PM
I can't figure out how to get it through Steam. Isn't it just supposed to, like, auto-do it?
Note for Tamas: "acquiring" a copy of the patch won't work either, because it just told me it couldn't find HoI3 installed. :P
I miss the old zip archives that you manually configured. So much less opaque about how they worked.
Any of this helpful
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427915
Sloooowwww download for me at the moment. <_<
Quote from: Ideologue on September 04, 2009, 02:16:01 PM
Note for Tamas: "acquiring" a copy of the patch won't work either, because it just told me it couldn't find HoI3 installed. :P
Apparently, you suck.
So...is the game fixed?
Is it time to buy it yet?
Is it OK yet?
Whoa they weren't kidding about the performance increase. A day takes about half the time it did before the patch.
Edit: Diggin the simplified terrain mapmode. Now if they could only somehow combine that with the political map, I'd be all set. Oh and it doesn't seem to unpause anymore when you select a unit from that side dropdown menu thing. That was terribly annoying.
Quote from: sbr on September 04, 2009, 03:01:31 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 04, 2009, 02:16:01 PM
I can't figure out how to get it through Steam. Isn't it just supposed to, like, auto-do it?
Note for Tamas: "acquiring" a copy of the patch won't work either, because it just told me it couldn't find HoI3 installed. :P
I miss the old zip archives that you manually configured. So much less opaque about how they worked.
Any of this helpful
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427915
I'll try it, but isn't this the same GG-version installer that can be acquired elsewhere (edit: and for a fraction of the download time)?
Quote from: Tamas on September 04, 2009, 03:31:54 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 04, 2009, 02:16:01 PM
Note for Tamas: "acquiring" a copy of the patch won't work either, because it just told me it couldn't find HoI3 installed. :P
Apparently, you suck.
:(
I reckon I'll take the plunge tonight. I'll try from Gamers gate because whenever I download a game from Steam I can't find the files that make up the game.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2009, 08:01:33 PM
I reckon I'll take the plunge tonight. I'll try from Gamers gate because whenever I download a game from Steam I can't find the files that make up the game.
I haven't tried 1.2 yet, gotta say that I still find unlimited naval distance for AI quite disgusting, it basically renders the pacific theatre meaningless, and a joke.
Quote from: Tamas on September 05, 2009, 05:45:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2009, 08:01:33 PM
I reckon I'll take the plunge tonight. I'll try from Gamers gate because whenever I download a game from Steam I can't find the files that make up the game.
I haven't tried 1.2 yet, gotta say that I still find unlimited naval distance for AI quite disgusting, it basically renders the pacific theatre meaningless, and a joke.
But unlimited naval ranges are the norm for P'dox games no? I remember seeing Aussie and Jap fleets duking it out in the Med in HOI2
Quote from: Josephus on September 05, 2009, 09:39:33 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 05, 2009, 05:45:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2009, 08:01:33 PM
I reckon I'll take the plunge tonight. I'll try from Gamers gate because whenever I download a game from Steam I can't find the files that make up the game.
I haven't tried 1.2 yet, gotta say that I still find unlimited naval distance for AI quite disgusting, it basically renders the pacific theatre meaningless, and a joke.
But unlimited naval ranges are the norm for P'dox games no? I remember seeing Aussie and Jap fleets duking it out in the Med in HOI2
But the devs said specifically that that wouldn't happen this time. :shrug:
Quote from: Tamas on September 05, 2009, 05:45:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2009, 08:01:33 PM
I reckon I'll take the plunge tonight. I'll try from Gamers gate because whenever I download a game from Steam I can't find the files that make up the game.
I haven't tried 1.2 yet, gotta say that I still find unlimited naval distance for AI quite disgusting, it basically renders the pacific theatre meaningless, and a joke.
They changed their mind and returned to unlimited range? :huh:
That's it, no buying from me. :mad:
Ugh. I forgot. It has that terrible tutorial that when I'm done I still don't know what I'm doing. <_<
Let the theatre ai handle things and just work on tech / production.
Quote from: Tamas on September 05, 2009, 05:45:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2009, 08:01:33 PM
I reckon I'll take the plunge tonight. I'll try from Gamers gate because whenever I download a game from Steam I can't find the files that make up the game.
I haven't tried 1.2 yet, gotta say that I still find unlimited naval distance for AI quite disgusting, it basically renders the pacific theatre meaningless, and a joke.
The Pacific theater has always been a joke. In HoI and HoI2, Japan would conquer China within a year, then struggle to invade the undefended Dutch East indies and Indochina, simply because they refuse to remove the massive piles of infantry from the home islands. Meanwhile, the American carrier fleet hangs out around the Aleutians, while the Jap navy does donuts in the Philippine Sea, before sailing off to the Med to engage the Aussies.
And from what I've read on the HoI3 forums, they've brought back CAGs as a separate unit (like CORE HoI1), but CAGs don't recover Org or Strength while on carriers (also like HoI1). Not to mention the perpetually raining oceans.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 05, 2009, 09:44:57 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 05, 2009, 05:45:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2009, 08:01:33 PM
I reckon I'll take the plunge tonight. I'll try from Gamers gate because whenever I download a game from Steam I can't find the files that make up the game.
I haven't tried 1.2 yet, gotta say that I still find unlimited naval distance for AI quite disgusting, it basically renders the pacific theatre meaningless, and a joke.
The Pacific theater has always been a joke. In HoI and HoI2, Japan would conquer China within a year, then struggle to invade the undefended Dutch East indies and Indochina, simply because they refuse to remove the massive piles of infantry from the home islands. Meanwhile, the American carrier fleet hangs out around the Aleutians, while the Jap navy does donuts in the Philippine Sea, before sailing off to the Med to engage the Aussies.
And from what I've read on the HoI3 forums, they've brought back CAGs as a separate unit (like CORE HoI1), but CAGs don't recover Org or Strength while on carriers (also like HoI1). Not to mention the perpetually raining oceans.
Wait, what?
"On a carrier at sea," or "on a carrier--even in a port"?
Because that would be too fucked up, although it would explain some weird naval engagements I've had where the Germans can get within range of my ships at all.
Hmmm. I tried to start a game as Brazil but it crashes on the setup. Twice.
Quote from: Ideologue on September 05, 2009, 10:40:43 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 05, 2009, 09:44:57 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 05, 2009, 05:45:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2009, 08:01:33 PM
I reckon I'll take the plunge tonight. I'll try from Gamers gate because whenever I download a game from Steam I can't find the files that make up the game.
I haven't tried 1.2 yet, gotta say that I still find unlimited naval distance for AI quite disgusting, it basically renders the pacific theatre meaningless, and a joke.
The Pacific theater has always been a joke. In HoI and HoI2, Japan would conquer China within a year, then struggle to invade the undefended Dutch East indies and Indochina, simply because they refuse to remove the massive piles of infantry from the home islands. Meanwhile, the American carrier fleet hangs out around the Aleutians, while the Jap navy does donuts in the Philippine Sea, before sailing off to the Med to engage the Aussies.
And from what I've read on the HoI3 forums, they've brought back CAGs as a separate unit (like CORE HoI1), but CAGs don't recover Org or Strength while on carriers (also like HoI1). Not to mention the perpetually raining oceans.
Wait, what?
"On a carrier at sea," or "on a carrier--even in a port"?
Because that would be too fucked up, although it would explain some weird naval engagements I've had where the Germans can get within range of my ships at all.
just carrier at sea
I don't seem to be able to get any nation to start in 1936. Just a crash to desktop.
Also loading for this game take for fucking ever.
Quote from: Josephus on September 04, 2009, 03:48:46 PM
So...is the game fixed?
The weather system is still fuber. Most of the oceans rain perpetually. There is also a large area around Berlin that does that too. But it seems to work in most land areas of Europe.
Switzerland still joins the Allies. It is plausible for, say, Belgium or the Netherlands to join. Even the US. But Switzerland joining the Allies is insane.
Been modding the files somewhat, I just can't stand it when it simply says "Rommel" sure everyone with a least some knowledge of ww2 know who he was, but how much more work is it to instead type down "Rommel, Erwin"?
As it is I've added first named to 95% of the German genarals, will begin doing the admirals soon.
If anyone is interested in getting on a first name basis on the German generals, shout it out loud and I might post the file
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 06, 2009, 04:26:19 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 05, 2009, 10:40:43 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 05, 2009, 09:44:57 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 05, 2009, 05:45:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2009, 08:01:33 PM
I reckon I'll take the plunge tonight. I'll try from Gamers gate because whenever I download a game from Steam I can't find the files that make up the game.
I haven't tried 1.2 yet, gotta say that I still find unlimited naval distance for AI quite disgusting, it basically renders the pacific theatre meaningless, and a joke.
The Pacific theater has always been a joke. In HoI and HoI2, Japan would conquer China within a year, then struggle to invade the undefended Dutch East indies and Indochina, simply because they refuse to remove the massive piles of infantry from the home islands. Meanwhile, the American carrier fleet hangs out around the Aleutians, while the Jap navy does donuts in the Philippine Sea, before sailing off to the Med to engage the Aussies.
And from what I've read on the HoI3 forums, they've brought back CAGs as a separate unit (like CORE HoI1), but CAGs don't recover Org or Strength while on carriers (also like HoI1). Not to mention the perpetually raining oceans.
Wait, what?
"On a carrier at sea," or "on a carrier--even in a port"?
Because that would be too fucked up, although it would explain some weird naval engagements I've had where the Germans can get within range of my ships at all.
just carrier at sea
Well, there's nothing wrong with that.
Quote from: Ape on September 07, 2009, 10:28:55 AM
Been modding the files somewhat, I just can't stand it when it simply says "Rommel" sure everyone with a least some knowledge of ww2 know who he was, but how much more work is it to instead type down "Rommel, Erwin"?
83% more. 117%, counting the comma and the space.
So is the game still complete and utter shite, or is it worth taking a look at now?
It's worse than the real thing.
Quote from: Kleves on September 11, 2009, 04:20:01 PM
So is the game still complete and utter shite, or is it worth taking a look at now?
For me it is. I get a crash to desktop on 1936 and 1938 scenarios. ALso it takes five minutes to load. Fuck that shit. They got my cash. Maybe they can use it to make something decent.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2009, 04:10:40 AM
Fuck that shit. They got my cash. Maybe they can use it to make something decent.
ck2 !
It's a very ambitious design, but still has huge flaws. It's fun to play around and it's possible to get a good game out of it, sometimes. I love the fact that I don't have to micro-manage every single facet of the war. I hate the fact that the ai sometimes goes stupid and either what should be a difficult battle becomes a walkover or I end up having to micro-manage it anyway. I think between Paradox's patches and user mods it will become one of the great titles, maybe in a year or so.
I like that Paradox seems to be focusing on the elements that they should (performance, ai, interface, major systems). The two major changes to the game that are crying out for adjustment are the weather and supply routing. The weather doesn't work very well, and supply should be sourced at factories instead of the capital. Mods can take care of map/balance/historical issues.
Quote from: saskganesh on September 12, 2009, 06:36:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2009, 04:10:40 AM
Fuck that shit. They got my cash. Maybe they can use it to make something decent.
ck2 !
That would be good. I'm very I'm somewhat wary of VIcky 2.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2009, 09:27:36 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on September 12, 2009, 06:36:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2009, 04:10:40 AM
Fuck that shit. They got my cash. Maybe they can use it to make something decent.
ck2 !
That would be good. I'm very I'm somewhat wary of VIcky 2.
Well the problem with Vicky 2, I think, is that they're using HOI3 as the template for it.
Well, against my better judgement, and because I had an expiring Best Buy coupon, I bought HoI3. :blush:
After playing around for a bit, I have one major question: is the new HQ/Theatre system anything other than a huge complication that add little to the gameplay? It seems that it makes thing a great deal more fiddly, and I'm not sure I see the upside.
Quote from: Kleves on September 13, 2009, 01:26:33 AM
After playing around for a bit, I have one major question: is the new HQ/Theatre system anything other than a huge complication that add little to the gameplay? It seems that it makes thing a great deal more fiddly, and I'm not sure I see the upside.
It stops being complicated pretty quickly once you get used to it. One thing I use the theater system for (when the damn AI assigns me the one I want, that is) is to tell one side to automatically defend...say, for example....the western border, while I attack some shitheel country in the east.
Quote from: Kleves on September 13, 2009, 01:26:33 AM
After playing around for a bit, I have one major question: is the new HQ/Theatre system anything other than a huge complication that add little to the gameplay? It seems that it makes thing a great deal more fiddly, and I'm not sure I see the upside.
Check out this AAR; I found that after reading it, I could defeat Poland in historical time without ever touching an individual unit.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416326
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2009, 09:27:36 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on September 12, 2009, 06:36:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2009, 04:10:40 AM
Fuck that shit. They got my cash. Maybe they can use it to make something decent.
ck2 !
That would be good. I'm very I'm somewhat wary of VIcky 2.
I don't give a damn about Vicky. Me want CK2.
Fuck Hearts of Iron 3.
I was playing as Japan earlier today, and about a month into my southern campaign, got a message that the Americans were landing on Kwajalein. Kwajalein was defended by a 2INF/1MIL/1ENG division with latest (1942) weapons and three naval bombers of the G4M type, with extra striking power over and above vanilla due to some modifications I made to the air-launched torpedo tech. Even so, I figured that since I had the modern half of the Combined Fleet in Truk, I should sail out to go do some major damage to the USN.
Predictably, I rapidly defeated the invasion force, or at least the invasion force's escorts, which included only one CV against my four, and half or fewer my number of BBs and other surface combatants. In fact, I sunk three or four transport flotillas. I chased the Ameritards 'round the Antares Maelstrom and so forth, actually revolving the CVTF and surface action group around Kwajalein several times.
Then, somehow, transports that over 300 carrier borne aircraft, 300 land-based aircraft, and dozens of warships had missed, finished unloading troops onto Kwajalein, destroying my defense unit.
I want Paradox to explain to me how some sixty ships and six hundred aircraft FAILED TO FIND THE ACTUAL INVASION FORCE THAT WAS LANDING TROOPS ON MY BEACH.
Add to the absolutely dumbfounding naval warfare model the facts that units are perpetually and inexplicably out-of-supply in China and elsewhere and that Germany never attacks the Soviet Union because of a bug that should have been caught in beta game number one, and you have a complete cock-up of a game.
I don't think I'll be playing this for a while. It's sad, my favorite part of the game is playing as Japan and building a modern, sophisticated navy--that I can't use at fucking all, because the naval model is so tremendously stupid. I need to go back to WitP.
Johan, why don't you care about navies? If you don't care about navies, why is Japan in the game? Why not just focus on your mediocre Barbarossa-simulator?
Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Johan, why don't you care about navies? If you don't care about navies, why is Japan in the game? Why not just focus on your mediocre Barbarossa-simulator?
Because they can't get Germany to attack Russia? :D
Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Germany never attacks the Soviet Union because of a bug
Please tell me this isn't true.
Quote from: Habbaku on September 13, 2009, 07:35:14 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Germany never attacks the Soviet Union because of a bug
Please tell me this isn't true.
I can verify that they've never attacked the USSR in any games that I've played, where I haven't played as Germany... at least they hadn't struck by 1942.
I've heard scuttlebutt that there is a bug that the German AI will not attack the USSR when it's at war with neighboring powers--unfortunately, it counts
occupied Poland as a neighboring power. Anyway, this is what I've heard.
Kind of a non-issue for me, I guess, since I'm through with this game till/unless naval warfare is fixed to the point that half the carriers and every battleship in the Japanese navy can stop a half-assed American invasion attempt in February 1942. I'd also like supply fixed, although it's a balance of evils, I guess, since I could easily demolish the Natchis if 75% of the Chinese Expeditionary Army wasn't at 0% supply and literally immobile all the time.
I
might go back to the autosave and see if I can replicate what happened exactly.
I guess not being able to even get the game to start isn't so bad now.
Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Johan, why don't you care about navies? If you don't care about navies, why is Japan in the game? Why not just focus on your mediocre Barbarossa-simulator?
The Wasa disaster scarred the Swedish psyche.
http://www.wargamer.com/article/2769/hearts-of-iron-iii-state-of-the-game
QuoteA patch is never late! Nor is it ever early. It arrives precisely when I mean it to do.
- Johan Andersson, Wizard
The State of the Hearts of Iron Union (Or Should We Say Disunion?)
First off, we love the Hearts of Iron series. One of us went so far as to sink a full week of man hours into Hearts of Iron II compressed into a long weekend. The resulting binge netted him conquering the entire WORLD with the US just for the hell of it – that's right every province in the game. Some of our friends even explored some "alternative" methods of dominating the globe with varying levels of success. Naturally, when the review copy of Hearts of Iron III came up on the staff board at The Wargamer a fairly significant bar fight ensued, complete with sharp objects, office furniture, and one guy even trying to deploy a trebuchet loaded with a Coke machine. Make no mistake – we're big Paradox fans around these parts. But Hearts of Iron III has some issues that deserve a critical examination, and love affair with the series or no, someone has to step in and call it like they see it. In the end it was decided that we'd need a group effort – not because the boss was indecisive in who would get the review, but because the issues being experience were so significant that we wanted multiple systems, users, and viewpoints to help establish a baseline.
Unfortunately with both the review build and commercially purchased versions installed and ready to run things began going amiss rather quickly. For starters, the game out of the box is in essence unplayable. Even after the v1.2 patch just being released there are still significant issues, not the least of which is the lag we still experience even when switching between simple user interface screens. We'll be the first to admit that our systems are not the fastest rigs out there. But we still meet or exceed the minimum requirements and should therefore be able to play the game – at least that's the expectation. Here's one machine's profile – our weakest one and the game's minimum requirements:
Reviewer System Specs
* Operating system: Windows XP
* Processor: AMD FX 55
* Memory: 2Gb RAM
* Hard disk space: 2.5 TB over 4 HDD
* Vide NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX
* Sound: Karajan Integrated Audio Chip
Minimum Requirements
* Operating system: Windows 2000/XP/Vista
* Processor: Intel® Pentium® IV 2.4 GHz or AMD 3500+
* Memory: 2Gb RAM
* Hard disk space: 2 GB Available HDD Space
* Vide NVIDIA® GeForce 8800 or ATI Radeon® X1900
* Sound: Direct X-compatible sound card
* DirectX®: DirectX 9
But before we get too much further into this discussion it's worth noting that the minimum system requirements aren't clear – even on Paradox's own forums. Note the screenshot below.
Click for full image
These discrepancies are not cosmetic. If we look at the two "minimum" video cards, there is a significant difference between them - the 8800 is a fairly mid-high range card while the 6800 is low-mid range. All of which is just details...unless you're as big a fan of Hearts of Iron as we are, in which case it's a life-altering decision whether or not your rig can run the game. These discrepancies run deeper than just the forums – the printed manuals list lower system requirements, too, making it unclear as to when or why the minimum specs may have changed.
The fact that our systems meet the minimum requirements – regardless of which ones are used – but the game is still unplayable is significant. A mistake in estimation like this can have a big impact since many people trust this laundry list of computer hardware as an important litmus test before they open their wallets to purchase the game. Our reports of lag issues are far from an isolated incident. A quick trip to the Paradox forums will show that many people with machines far more powerful than ours experience similar troubles.
Additionally, the game also frequently freezes either due to software bugs or just general system overload. It's hard to tell exactly why the game locks up and requires a CTRL+ALT+DEL and "End Process" routine because, again, the game is not very playable in its current state.
Of course it's very important to note that Paradox has release two updates and a hotfix. But the updates are also rife with issues. For starters, in one case we didn't install Hearts of Iron III into the default directory because the reviewer likes to keep his games in a particular part of his hard drive – not an unreasonable or uncommon practice. This unfortunately throws the game's auto update feature for a loop. Every time the button is clicked to check for and install updates the auto updater says that he doesn't have Hearts of Iron III installed. To make things worse, there's no feature that allows the player to point the auto updater in the right direction – it just says the game isn't installed. This isn't necessarily a big deal as it is possible to download the update separately and then install it – but it is a minor annoyance and it shows a lack of polish.
Despite the three updates offered by Paradox, the game still remains unplayable – and unreviewable - for us. A few minor issues seemed to be resolved (we had a one-time event pop up every 30 seconds for about 5 minutes – that's fixed!) – but there are still many outstanding problems that render the game more or less useless even for people with machines powerful enough to run the game "properly". Once again, we've only been able to confirm the existence of many outstanding post-patch bugs in the most rudimentary sense since the game runs at a crawl for us. However, the take-home point from this is that there are severe issues, many of which we can say are not just minor complaints trumpeted above their worth, that remain as of the writing of this article.
Other issues include, but are not limited to, problems with the weather. Some gamers have noted that it has rained daily over Poland for over a year without interruption. That might be something which could be overlooked in the ETO as a comical glitch, but in the PTO, where the weather can sock in all carrier flights, the result is one of a carrier-less (or at least a grounded air force) conflict that is decidedly ahistoric. Such issues are reminiscent of Europa Universalis III being released with core functions like spy creation being absent from the central nation of the era: France. What is curious about these issues isn't the fact that there are bugs in the game – all games have bugs – but rather that they are so glaringly obvious and obviously unacceptable that one wonders if the QA team signed off on them after an evening overindulging in Aqvavit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akvavit).
A Communal Conflagration
Further adding to the Hearts of Iron III release muddle is the ensuing community disgust and infighting taking place at a variety of wargaming boards. It would seem that the Hearts of Iron game engine is the last place people turn to do battle; the forum post is the weapon of choice these days. We'll decline to take a side in the "debate" between Paradox fans and detractors as we think strapping on a helmet and starting to shoot in one direction or the other is counterproductive to The Wargamer's standing and a disservice to you, the reader.
It should be noted, however, that foul play is being alleged by both sides and more than a few credible reports of over aggressive administrating and other maladies are surfacing in other forums (not least of which The Wargamer forums), and in other cases it appears as though Paradox detractors are clearly trolling. We've seen instances in our own forums where gamers have sounded off in the negative but after being pressed for details haven't ever seen the actual game. Again, we have no idea as to the validity of some of claims that people are banned from some forums or otherwise mistreated – we're simply stating that reports are surfacing and any prospective Hearts of Iron III customer should know that the community waters both in official and unofficial channels are anything but tranquil.
The Greatest Strength and the Greatest Weakness
Paradox's track record on the initial status of major title releases is, well, not great. Europa Universalis III was a hotly anticipated launch which many considered to be equally buggy after the initial excitement settled. Suffice to say, the Hearts of Iron III debacle is not an isolated incident even despite its magnitude.
The community seems to be divided into three camps. In one camp are the die-hard fans who will buy any game on release day, and will persevere through a series of patches until a game reaches its full potential. In a second camp are gamers who will sit on the sidelines fully confident that a flurry of patches will be issued over the months and years after a Paradox game is released, and will eventually buy a game at a discounted price once enough patches have been released that stabilize and perfect a game. In the third camp are those detractors who won't buy into the process at all, disparaging the dynamic of releasing a game before it is free of most significant flaws.
Clearly, we fall in the first camp. We prefer to buy games when they're released hoping for the best but expecting a flurry of patches to improve and ultimately fix any issues of significance.
It is in that light that it should be noted, and probably celebrated, that Paradox has a positively awesome track record of supporting and patching their games. It is not at all uncommon for a patch to be released several years after a game first hit the shelves, with it addressing nothing more than game additions and improvements – operational bugs having long since been resolved. Regardless of how one stands on the practice of releasing games knowing that significant patches will need to follow, the balance of fixes and the dedication to improving games long past their expected retail "shelf life" is a practice that should be lauded. Kudos to Paradox for their diligent efforts.
We have no doubt at all that Hearts of Iron III will shine beautifully once the Paradox crew have had a crack at patching and patching and patching some more.... Our point here is that although the game's appeal is a little murky given the significant technical difficulties we're seeing – we have no doubt that Paradox will pull through and support this title through its entire life cycle. Anyone who really wants to buy this game but is worried that Paradox will just let the title die and move on to the next big release need not worry – their record more than speaks for itself: sit tight, comrade, help will be on the way.
Gamers who are on the fence owe it to themselves to take a look at the demo. The demo was released before any patches, and to our knowledge still contains the original code. It should be a reliable indicator of the game's UI and whether you'll like it. It should also give a fairly good indication as to any lag/performance/optimization issues as well as some other significant bugs that might be experienced on your gaming rig. Anyone still waiting to see how the game evolves should continue to follow developments – constant evolution of a game is a hallmark of Paradox titles.
It's for these two reasons that we think that Paradox's track record is both its greatest strength (patch support) and its greatest weakness (initial releases). Regardless of what "camp" you may reside in; there can be little doubt that given the time to work out the bugs, Hearts of Iron III will eventually become the game everyone is expecting it to be. It won't be long before every moment of the weekend will be dedicated to trying to best our record of conquering every province in the game. In the mean time, love it or hate it, the game may have been released too early for our machines, but the patches will arrive exactly as intended.
Ouch. We wanted to review the came but couldn't run the game so we talked about P'dox forums and support instead. :(
It runs pretty well for me, at least.
Thanks MBM & ulmont, I'm starting the figure out the HQs. I still don't really like the system, but at least it makes more sense. What level do you guys usually let the AI run things?
At no level whatsoever.
Quote from: Neil on September 13, 2009, 08:45:43 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Johan, why don't you care about navies? If you don't care about navies, why is Japan in the game? Why not just focus on your mediocre Barbarossa-simulator?
The Wasa disaster scarred the Swedish psyche.
I wasn't familiar with this, so I looked it up.
QuoteThe ship foundered and sank after sailing less than a nautical mile (ca 2 km) into her maiden voyage on 10 August 1628.
:lol: If that's not a metaphor for something, I don't know what is.
Quote from: Kleves on September 14, 2009, 12:10:09 AM
Thanks MBM & ulmont, I'm starting the figure out the HQs. I still don't really like the system, but at least it makes more sense. What level do you guys usually let the AI run things?
Depends on which theaters I have, and how lazy I'm feeling. ;) Usually, just out of convenience when the army starts to get really huge, if it leaves the theater HQ with enough to do it's job, I'll just detach a corps and micro that while setting overall objectives for the theater, etc. Or just build my own personal corps and roll with that (not always possible).
From what I've noticed, when you're doing this, the theater AI will support you with airstrikes and units and such if it can, so it's kinda cool. It really helps with the whole micromanagement thing too, since you can
really pile up the units in this one.
Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2009, 01:32:45 AM
Quote from: Neil on September 13, 2009, 08:45:43 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Johan, why don't you care about navies? If you don't care about navies, why is Japan in the game? Why not just focus on your mediocre Barbarossa-simulator?
The Wasa disaster scarred the Swedish psyche.
I wasn't familiar with this, so I looked it up.
QuoteThe ship foundered and sank after sailing less than a nautical mile (ca 2 km) into her maiden voyage on 10 August 1628.
:lol: If that's not a metaphor for something, I don't know what is.
They raised it and built a large museum around the hulk. It's a nice museum of that period of naval history, but it also represents a great wound in the Swedish mind.
QuoteOf course it’s very important to note that Paradox has release two updates and a hotfix. But the updates are also rife with issues. For starters, in one case we didn’t install Hearts of Iron III into the default directory because the reviewer likes to keep his games in a particular part of his hard drive – not an unreasonable or uncommon practice. This unfortunately throws the game’s auto update feature for a loop. Every time the button is clicked to check for and install updates the auto updater says that he doesn’t have Hearts of Iron III installed. To make things worse, there’s no feature that allows the player to point the auto updater in the right direction – it just says the game isn’t installed. This isn’t necessarily a big deal as it is possible to download the update separately and then install it – but it is a minor annoyance and it shows a lack of polish.
I installed it on an external hard drive and I didn't encounter any such problem.
It's interesting and pretty good... trying to play a game as Germany now. Slowly getting down the organization of the chains of command, which is kinda neat. Not going too terribly a-historical except for republican Spain joined the allies. Having a hard time getting any of the axis besides italy and slovakia to join me...
Quote from: Kleves on September 14, 2009, 12:10:09 AM
It runs pretty well for me, at least.
Other than being slow enough that I am playing it in Windowed mode while I type this (clicking over to check what's happening whenever I hear a "ping") I consider the game to be extremely stable, without a single crash since I purchased it.
On the other hand, it has caused my graphics card to crash and be recovered at least four times, which is a worry. :(
Quote from: Alcibiades on September 15, 2009, 12:10:43 AM
It's interesting and pretty good... trying to play a game as Germany now. Slowly getting down the organization of the chains of command, which is kinda neat. Not going too terribly a-historical except for republican Spain joined the allies. Having a hard time getting any of the axis besides italy and slovakia to join me...
Spending points on diplomacy and espionage helps a ton. The single best thing you can do from day one is increase the threat on Britain and France. That will keep people from joining the Allies and make them more amenable to Germany. You have to offset the inevitable threat from the Anschluss and Czech events. I haven't played as Germany yet. But when I start off, even as a minor, I will put my spies to work increasing the Allies' threat level. Usually Italy is in the Axis sometime in '37.
Quote from: Kleves on September 14, 2009, 12:10:09 AM
Thanks MBM & ulmont, I'm starting the figure out the HQs. I still don't really like the system, but at least it makes more sense. What level do you guys usually let the AI run things?
Honestly, I ran the demo with the AI running things from the top down. But the performance was so bad I put HoI3 on the "after next computer upgrade" list. :blush:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 15, 2009, 12:49:56 PM
Spending points on diplomacy and espionage helps a ton. The single best thing you can do from day one is increase the threat on Britain and France. That will keep people from joining the Allies and make them more amenable to Germany. You have to offset the inevitable threat from the Anschluss and Czech events. I haven't played as Germany yet. But when I start off, even as a minor, I will put my spies to work increasing the Allies' threat level. Usually Italy is in the Axis sometime in '37.
Yeah, that's what I did. Still having problems getting the Axis minors to form.
Romania is a dick in HoI3.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=432431
QuoteWhat has happened so far?
- Several problems with production AI has been dealt with.
- Most of the Bugs with the supply system, as well as some design flaws has been fixed.
- Dozens of reported problems with the Military AI has been tracked down and adressed.
and lots more...
If nothing major goes wrong, we're hoping to have a 1.3 out before november.
I like how those sporadic updates on the patch status are markedly shortly than all those dev diaries that P'dox spent their development time on. :P
It appears they took out the option to assume military control of allies? People on the forums say there's no way to coordinate with their allies, and sending Exped.Forces seems to be a role of the dice if the AI accepts them in the first place.
Quote from: me
I complained about Kwajalein being snatched from nowhere in April 1942 by an apparently nonexistent fleet in another thread a couple of weeks back.
I decided to start over, and see if the fault was somehow mine, or if it was just something I missed.
I can confirm that Kwajalein was being attacked from the twilight zone by an invasion force of eight divisions. In April 1942. With FOUR FLEET CARRIERS AND THE ZUIHO AND A HALF DOZEN BATTLESHIPS AND TWENTY CAs, CLs, AND DDs parked on top of the phantom "invasion force." I scream because I am angry. Of course, I tried every possibility for the location for this invasion force--hell, there's only three. Also, while I know the Japanese weren't too good with radios and electronics in WW2, I'm pretty Goddamn sure they were capable of figuring out which part of a SIXTEEN SQUARE KILOMETER ISLAND is being invaded!
Is there a tech that permits teleportation? Because that's what I was dealing with on Kwajalein. Teleporting Americans. Or Paradox has taken their cues from Marvel fucking Comics, and the Atlanteans are a member of the Allies, disgorging water-breathing infantry into the Kwajalein shallows and terrifying the Japanese bushi with their mastery over five-story-tall creatures of the deep, modified for war. I hear that Namor the Submariner is a Skill 5. Imperious Rex indeed.
While I pack the stupid island full of troops to ward off the combined teleporting/Atlantean force, I decide to use a group a nav bombers to search for any surface ships, just in case there are any. Nope. Fine, I turned them on ground attack. After about, oh, twelve hours of daylight sorties, my 300-plane Betty force has been reduced to a zero-plane nothing force. Well, that's pretty odd, too, considering that there are no Allied airbases remotely within range and apparently no bloody Allied carriers. Or ships. Maybe stargates are an atmospheric hazard for prop planes.
So, basically, I wound up beating an island invasion by busing in additional divisions. I said, fine, whatever, and tried to keep playing.
The U.S. (and perhaps Namor) decide, immediately after the failure of Kwajalein, to try to retake Wake Island... and as soon the Combined Fleet "defeats" the invasion force, Wake Island is struck from "another direction," perhaps again from more-or-less nowhere.
Unfortunately, I cannot confirm this, because the game CTD'd immediately at that point.
Oh, incidentally, Germany never declared war on the USSR and I can't route supply through Siam. What a fantastic game this is.
Fix this in 3.0, or eat me. If I sound belligerent, it's because I am.
How do you make a game worse than Rome?
I wish people would be more sympathetic to Paradox. It's unfair to assume anybody there actually played their product, after all.
Quote from: Ideologue<losing it>
:lol:
Your thread no longer exists. :(
Quote from: Ideologue on September 25, 2009, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: me
I complained about Kwajalein being snatched from nowhere in April 1942 by an apparently nonexistent fleet in another thread a couple of weeks back.
I decided to start over, and see if the fault was somehow mine, or if it was just something I missed.
I can confirm that Kwajalein was being attacked from the twilight zone by an invasion force of eight divisions. In April 1942. With FOUR FLEET CARRIERS AND THE ZUIHO AND A HALF DOZEN BATTLESHIPS AND TWENTY CAs, CLs, AND DDs parked on top of the phantom "invasion force." I scream because I am angry. Of course, I tried every possibility for the location for this invasion force--hell, there's only three. Also, while I know the Japanese weren't too good with radios and electronics in WW2, I'm pretty Goddamn sure they were capable of figuring out which part of a SIXTEEN SQUARE KILOMETER ISLAND is being invaded!
Is there a tech that permits teleportation? Because that's what I was dealing with on Kwajalein. Teleporting Americans. Or Paradox has taken their cues from Marvel fucking Comics, and the Atlanteans are a member of the Allies, disgorging water-breathing infantry into the Kwajalein shallows and terrifying the Japanese bushi with their mastery over five-story-tall creatures of the deep, modified for war. I hear that Namor the Submariner is a Skill 5. Imperious Rex indeed.
While I pack the stupid island full of troops to ward off the combined teleporting/Atlantean force, I decide to use a group a nav bombers to search for any surface ships, just in case there are any. Nope. Fine, I turned them on ground attack. After about, oh, twelve hours of daylight sorties, my 300-plane Betty force has been reduced to a zero-plane nothing force. Well, that's pretty odd, too, considering that there are no Allied airbases remotely within range and apparently no bloody Allied carriers. Or ships. Maybe stargates are an atmospheric hazard for prop planes.
So, basically, I wound up beating an island invasion by busing in additional divisions. I said, fine, whatever, and tried to keep playing.
The U.S. (and perhaps Namor) decide, immediately after the failure of Kwajalein, to try to retake Wake Island... and as soon the Combined Fleet "defeats" the invasion force, Wake Island is struck from "another direction," perhaps again from more-or-less nowhere.
Unfortunately, I cannot confirm this, because the game CTD'd immediately at that point.
Oh, incidentally, Germany never declared war on the USSR and I can't route supply through Siam. What a fantastic game this is.
Fix this in 3.0, or eat me. If I sound belligerent, it's because I am.
How do you make a game worse than Rome?
Provisionally I'd say that that was an issue with province adjacencies, but that doesn't completely explain the NAV issue.
Quote from: garbon on September 25, 2009, 04:21:54 PM
Your thread no longer exists. :(
It's in the bug reports section: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434199
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 25, 2009, 04:41:09 PM
It's in the bug reports section: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434199
Oh, I don't have access to that forum.
General criticism is against forum rules.
Quote from: garbon on September 25, 2009, 04:43:29 PM
Oh, I don't have access to that forum.
I almost said it's a surprisingly slow moving thread, but I actually looked at the rest of them on that first page, and it seems to be one of the more popular ones in that subforum, with 5 replies and 70 views.
Quote from: Habbaku on September 25, 2009, 05:34:29 PM
General criticism is against forum rules.
Seriously? that's brilliant.
Quote from: Agelastus on September 25, 2009, 04:41:05 PM
Provisionally I'd say that that was an issue with province adjacencies, but that doesn't completely explain the NAV issue.
There's some weird stuff going on with air war in general, with spam air battles sometimes occurring against the AI that rapidly sap strength. It's not facially retarded to lose 300 planes in (I was possibly wrong about twelve hours) one to five days, but I'd say there's a presumption against it happening in 1942...
As for province adjacenies, I checked the province details, and it sez that the only places Kwajalein borders are the three obvious seazones and that island group. (I don't really like those island links, but understand, sort of, why P'dox chose to bring them into existence.)
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker:lol:
Think of me as Michael Douglas in Falling Down, except maybe less racist.
I thought my Atlantean bit was pretty good. :)
Anyway, here's some screenshots I took of the debacle. I suppose I'll duly post 'em on Paradox when I get a chance.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi637.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu91%2FMyasishchev%2FHearts%2520of%2520Iron%2FHoI3_8.jpg&hash=86ad7ff066135a88ceda5e61fbdcbae5283023d5)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi637.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu91%2FMyasishchev%2FHearts%2520of%2520Iron%2FHoI3_7.jpg&hash=de0e8a57f7b242f30897feb45fa62e77c7a76d06)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi637.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu91%2FMyasishchev%2FHearts%2520of%2520Iron%2FHoI3_9.jpg&hash=d95e3dc0690136ce4e40db40060d49facea4a044)
Now, what I forgot to mention is that when I look at the battle screen--apparently there's no way of determining from where the attack is actually coming by that--but one thing that strikes me as
damned odd is that I have a level 3 coastal fort in Kwajalein, that seems to not be effecting combat. Indeed, there is no amphibious penalty for the USAians at all. Nor is there a shore bombardment bonus for them--only for me. Gosh, I wish I had the mouse rollover in that screenshot--however, you can see no amphib icon at the top. Isn't there ordinarily one?
And this just occurred to me but: lol, Admiral Fuckdome.
The whole thing with Namor was great.
Personally, I think all this nonsense is how Paradox overcame the whole 'the AI doesn't launch amphibious assaults' thing.
Are you sure they're not attacking from an adjacent island? It doesn't look like they are, but just in case...
Or maybe there's a bug and Kwaijalin is connected to, perhaps, Oahu or San Francisco (the damned stargates again)
Nope, every Marshall is garrisoned, and besides, I think all the provinces with strait connections to Kwajalein (only one, I believe Maleolap) are visible in the SS--nothing seems amiss.
The UI doesn't register a connection to Oahu or SF or anything else stupid...
I've actually been somewhat-more-calmly following up since they moved it into the bug forum, including posting these shots. My theory now is that the ship-to-shore movement of the American divisions completed before I chased the transports off, leaving the eight American divisions ( :rolleyes: ) to fend for themselves against my crappy INF//MIL/ENG invasion-containment division.
I'm not at all sure why my NAVs were chewed up, but this happened to me in a Germany game too, with the AI throwing huge spam air fleets at me on an hourly basis, and I think that's bugged too.
In other news, I eagerly await the World War I mod, since crappy implementation of actual World War II weapons is not a concern there. I think the infantry combat model works great. :D
Quote from: Ideologue on September 25, 2009, 08:03:45 PM
I eagerly await the World War I mod, since crappy implementation of actual World War II weapons is not a concern there. I think the infantry combat model works great. :D
You won't say that when Imperial Germany amphibiously invades Madagascar. Or Puerto Rico. Or Japan.
God, you're probably right.
Hey I finally got the game to work again. Still takes forever to load.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 07, 2009, 10:05:22 PM
Hey I finally got the game to work again. Still takes forever to load.
Yes. The start-up takes like forever
Quote from: BVN on October 08, 2009, 07:23:41 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 07, 2009, 10:05:22 PM
Hey I finally got the game to work again. Still takes forever to load.
Yes. The start-up takes like forever
But the important thing I'm moving the right direction! Next patch I may even try to play it.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 08, 2009, 07:57:57 AM
Quote from: BVN on October 08, 2009, 07:23:41 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 07, 2009, 10:05:22 PM
Hey I finally got the game to work again. Still takes forever to load.
Yes. The start-up takes like forever
But the important thing I'm moving the right direction! Next patch I may even try to play it.
Positive thinking FTW! :)
This thing still makes me wanna puke.
I worry about Victoria 2.
Quote from: Josephus on October 09, 2009, 08:17:57 PM
I worry about Victoria 2.
That's silly of you. You should be past worrying. You know it's going to suck. Paradox doesn't have it anymore.
Yeah, only worry I have about Victoria 2 is that someone might put a gun to my head and force me to purchase it.
Quote from: Josephus on October 09, 2009, 08:17:57 PM
I worry about Victoria 2.
That's a silly thing to waste worry on; you know Paradox won't get it right first time. After all, Victoria wasn't properly fixed until Revolutions came out.
Quote from: Agelastus on October 10, 2009, 06:36:57 AM
Quote from: Josephus on October 09, 2009, 08:17:57 PM
I worry about Victoria 2.
That's a silly thing to waste worry on; you know Paradox won't get it right first time. After all, Victoria wasn't properly fixed until Revolutions came out.
I didn't think it was every properly fixed.
Quote from: dps on October 09, 2009, 10:46:29 PM
Yeah, only worry I have about Victoria 2 is that someone might put a gun to my head and force me to purchase it.
:lol:
Quote from: dps on October 09, 2009, 10:46:29 PM
Yeah, only worry I have about Victoria 2 is that someone might put a gun to my head and force me to purchase it.
:lol:
That's fucking awesome.
For those that have a registered copy you can visit the Tech Support forum and pick up the current version of the 1.3 patch. Only gotten to play a little bit but speed is tremendously improved, the AI isn't nearly as brain dead as 1.2 and the list of changes is longer than my arm.
I went through the change list and saw nothing that would make insular defense doable.
No "AI no longer has portal technology" in the bug fix?
^I mean, I didn't see it, no.
There's no intention to fix infinite naval range for the AI. So I'm still gonna pass.
Although fortunately for Paradox, there are posters who will defend the Finnish invasion of Hawaii on the grounds that Britain invaded the Falkands...
Quote from: Faeelin on November 10, 2009, 09:02:44 AM
There's no intention to fix infinite naval range for the AI. So I'm still gonna pass.
Although fortunately for Paradox, there are posters who will defend the Finnish invasion of Hawaii on the grounds that Britain invaded the Falkands...
:lol:
What is so funny about this is that it is no exaggeration.
Quote from: grumbler on November 10, 2009, 01:23:36 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on November 10, 2009, 09:02:44 AM
There's no intention to fix infinite naval range for the AI. So I'm still gonna pass.
Although fortunately for Paradox, there are posters who will defend the Finnish invasion of Hawaii on the grounds that Britain invaded the Falkands...
:lol:
What is so funny about this is that it is no exaggeration.
:( No. Sadly it isn't
Do the AI air units in HOI3 also have unlimited range? That's also been a hassle, trying to set up air defense but the enemy could go anywhere anyways.
HoI3 is 14.99 on Steam for a bit.
I still can't pull the tigger on it, even though it is in the bargain basement range.
Damn, that didn't take long.
What an epic disaster.
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2009, 04:53:53 PM
Damn, that didn't take long.
What an epic disaster.
My understanding is that it's your fault for not being an effective beta tester.
It's true, I was not an effective beta tester.
HOI3 is well worth $15 unless you're fahdiz.
I don't know. I own it but have never played it for more then half an hour. I could spend that 15 bucks to go to the movies and got better value.
The 1.3 patch is about where I would normally expect a Paradox release + initial patch. Fully functional and somewhat fun but still requiring a couple patches to be a quality game. Unfortunately this is 3 months from release.
I'm having fun playing it but I think my initial estimate of next August + mods for a really great game is looking correct.
Quote from: Faeelin on November 10, 2009, 09:02:44 AM
There's no intention to fix infinite naval range for the AI. So I'm still gonna pass.
Although fortunately for Paradox, there are posters who will defend the Finnish invasion of Hawaii on the grounds that Britain invaded the Falkands...
40 years later, maybe.
The new patch is a big step forward. Now the game crashes during the tutorial.
Did you get your copy from Steam? It sounds like there's a bug in their distribution.
Against my better judgment, I purchased this for 15 bucks.
Quote from: frunk on November 12, 2009, 11:10:31 AM
Did you get your copy from Steam? It sounds like there's a bug in their distribution.
Nope. Gamersgate.
If you've registered your copy go to the tech support forum and give a post, so far only Steam customers were having problems.
So, are the dreadnoughts any good?
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 12, 2009, 11:25:39 AM
Against my better judgment, I purchased this for 15 bucks.
First run through:
HOI3.exe has stopped working.Good 'ol Paradox.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 12, 2009, 04:27:43 PM
First run through:
HOI3.exe has stopped working.
Good 'ol Paradox.
I was reading something the other day about 1.3 and Windows 7 having some issues for some people. There was some sort of "fix" that someone posted. I'll see if I can find it for you.
Edit: Eh...I can't find exactly what I was looking for with my halfassed search. There's this though: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442469
Also something about giving HoI3 admin rights, etc. Things like that.
heh, invalid Steam key entered on the Paradox plaza user account.
I must say, Paradox games gives me warm feelings. Fun to be treated like a pirate.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 12, 2009, 04:49:09 PM
heh, invalid Steam key entered on the Paradox plaza user account.
I must say, Paradox games gives me warm feelings. Fun to be treated like a pirate.
It's for the best. The game is more frustrating when you get it going.
I think I'm about done with Paradox. Just ain't worth it.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 12, 2009, 04:49:09 PM
heh, invalid Steam key entered on the Paradox plaza user account.
I must say, Paradox games gives me warm feelings. Fun to be treated like a pirate.
Oh..Steam? Good luck to you.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 12, 2009, 04:49:09 PM
heh, invalid Steam key entered on the Paradox plaza user account.
I must say, Paradox games gives me warm feelings. Fun to be treated like a pirate.
There's your problem.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 12, 2009, 04:54:58 PM
I think I'm about done with Paradox. Just ain't worth it.
Is it to much to ask for a game to work after 3 patches?
Quote from: Razgovory on November 12, 2009, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 12, 2009, 04:54:58 PM
I think I'm about done with Paradox. Just ain't worth it.
Is it to much to ask for a game to work after 3 patches?
I'll have you know Johan said only 10% of readers polled on the Paradox forums were dissatisfied with 1.3. Though apparently China is
still broken.
Unlimited naval range alone breaks the game regardless of other fixes and features.
Got the crashes down to 'sort of playable'. It is rather fun building the Wehrmacht. :blush:
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2009, 03:24:57 PM
Got the crashes down to 'sort of playable'. It is rather fun building the Wehrmacht. :blush:
I really like the ideas behind the game, it just isn't very much fun to play. The execution on the good ideas is just very poor and I don't know that it will be fixable in a patch, will probably require a paid expansion, which would go over like a fart in church.
As long as I get to rape: Poland, France and the Russians, I'll get my 15 dollars worth.
If an expansion would make the game better the I would gladly pay for it. As is now, with 1.3 it is playable and actually quite fun.
Quote from: Threviel on November 13, 2009, 04:24:50 PM
If an expansion would make the game better the I would gladly pay for it. As is now, with 1.3 it is playable and actually quite fun.
YOu're one of the peeps Johan polled, right? :rolleyes:
1 of 10.
Same incidence as homosexuality.
Quote from: Josephus on November 13, 2009, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: Threviel on November 13, 2009, 04:24:50 PM
If an expansion would make the game better the I would gladly pay for it. As is now, with 1.3 it is playable and actually quite fun.
YOu're one of the peeps Johan polled, right? :rolleyes:
Nope.
Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2009, 04:50:14 PM
1 of 10.
Same incidence as homosexuality.
You're saying only gays like HoI3? :P
Quote from: ulmont on November 13, 2009, 05:11:19 PM
You're saying only gays like HoI3? :P
If the pink stiletto fits...
Quote from: Faeelin on November 13, 2009, 10:19:23 AM
I'll have you know Johan said only 10% of readers polled on the Paradox forums were dissatisfied with 1.3. Though apparently China is still broken.
Broken in a Victoria sort of way, where China puts a thousand divisions in the field?
Lol, Danes join the allies in '38 and immediately mobilize.
Typical warmonger Danes. :lol:
I'll give Hausser the job to rape the Dane. A bit of SS action will deal with that scum.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 10:38:35 AM
Lol, Danes join the allies in '38 and immediately mobilize.
Typical warmonger Danes. :lol:
I'll give Hausser the job to rape the Dane. A bit of SS action will deal with that scum.
Think it was HOI2, some stupid island in Kraut occupied Denmark was a magnet for allied armies. After an unsuccessful attack on my Germanic empire these shadow divisions would march half way across Europe and end up on this island. Didn't matter if I had an entire army group stationed there (and I did after awhile since once these units "reformed" they started taking provinces)
Bornholm. It was in HOI 1 that I had to keep a massive garrison on that shitty rock.
That's the one. Fucking A.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2009, 03:29:41 PM
As long as I get to rape: Poland, France and the Russians, I'll get my 15 dollars worth.
Poland and Denmark raped, check.
I let the AI run the attack on Poland, and it actually punched armor through and pocketed a bunch of Poles. Rather surprised.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 07:20:55 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2009, 03:29:41 PM
As long as I get to rape: Poland, France and the Russians, I'll get my 15 dollars worth.
Poland and Denmark raped, check.
I let the AI run the attack on Poland, and it actually punched armor through and pocketed a bunch of Poles. Rather surprised.
So it is awesome then.
Quote from: Faeelin on November 13, 2009, 10:19:23 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 12, 2009, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 12, 2009, 04:54:58 PM
I think I'm about done with Paradox. Just ain't worth it.
Is it to much to ask for a game to work after 3 patches?
I'll have you know Johan said only 10% of readers polled on the Paradox forums were dissatisfied with 1.3. Though apparently China is still broken.
That just means that the other 90% had already given up on it and didn't even bother getting the patch.
I wish I had. I'm deeply disappointed in this one.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 15, 2009, 10:44:23 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 10:38:35 AM
Lol, Danes join the allies in '38 and immediately mobilize.
Typical warmonger Danes. :lol:
I'll give Hausser the job to rape the Dane. A bit of SS action will deal with that scum.
Think it was HOI2, some stupid island in Kraut occupied Denmark was a magnet for allied armies. After an unsuccessful attack on my Germanic empire these shadow divisions would march half way across Europe and end up on this island. Didn't matter if I had an entire army group stationed there (and I did after awhile since once these units "reformed" they started taking provinces)
Hmm, it wasn't quite a magnet for me- they invaded Kiel and were pushed bacK to there. Once there though they Kept reinforcing it until they had 80 units sitting opposite a few defenders of mine....Doing F.A.
Until I nuKed them.
Ah HOI2...BroKen but fun.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 15, 2009, 09:46:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 07:20:55 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2009, 03:29:41 PM
As long as I get to rape: Poland, France and the Russians, I'll get my 15 dollars worth.
Poland and Denmark raped, check.
I let the AI run the attack on Poland, and it actually punched armor through and pocketed a bunch of Poles. Rather surprised.
So it is awesome then.
I don't know. The Ai also sortied the fleet, only to get it assraped by the evil Brits.
If you plan on conquering the Soviet Union make sure to grab the Bitter Peace fix (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442422) from the mod forum, otherwise all sorts of goofy things happen.
Reorganizing your forces is a pain. I had this huge mass in france, with divisions all willy-nilly. I'm dreading going through and promoting leaders and organizing armies for barbarossa.
France done by the end of '39 rocks though.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 17, 2009, 07:34:02 PM
Reorganizing your forces is a pain. I had this huge mass in france, with divisions all willy-nilly. I'm dreading going through and promoting leaders and organizing armies for barbarossa.
France done by the end of '39 rocks though.
When selecting an HQ, if you click on the line that lists how many divisions they control it'll select every division/HQ under its command. Then you can assign them to move to the same place or pick which to move where.
Quote from: frunk on November 18, 2009, 12:08:13 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 17, 2009, 07:34:02 PM
Reorganizing your forces is a pain. I had this huge mass in france, with divisions all willy-nilly. I'm dreading going through and promoting leaders and organizing armies for barbarossa.
France done by the end of '39 rocks though.
When selecting an HQ, if you click on the line that lists how many divisions they control it'll select every division/HQ under its command. Then you can assign them to move to the same place or pick which to move where.
:headslap:
Gracias.
It's worth buying then?
It never took this long before. I'd buy a Paradox product on the day of release, it would suck, but in a fun way, and then be fixed relatively quickly and be great.
What the fuckity fuck is the problem?
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 18, 2009, 01:08:37 PM
It's worth buying then?
10 or 15 dollars? Sure.
I wouldn't pay 40 bucks for it.
I think they decided to take on some seriously complicated simulation aspects like weather and supply movement, and that chewed up time that would have otherwise been used to polish the game and make it ready for release. Now I think the game is at the fun but sucky stage that Wag talks about, but I'd be surprised if it moved to great anytime soon. I get the feeling Paradox will still be releasing patches but will direct most of their effort at the next project.
The one bright spot is that the mod community is working pretty hard at some nice improvements, and I think they'll be the ones that will save the title.
Is the next project CK2? Because that is what I really, really, want. After Alpha Centauri 2 of course.
I think Vickie 2 is next up, no?
Blerg.
I just fired this up again yesterday for a marathon session with the new patch. It's reasonably fun (the patch makes things better), but still not really a must have unless, like Monkeybutt says, you can grab it for 10 or 15 bucks.
I do continue to be pleasantly surprised with how stable it is for me though. Still no crashes in this latest session, and it's been running pretty much all day (in the background, at least). Hell...it's running right now. :P It's pretty outstanding for a Paradox release in that regard.
I've had the odd crash with Paradox, but they were mostly stable. The issues I had with HOI2 were a result of ancient video drivers, so it was my fault.
Its the glaring bugs, the ones that should never have gotten to release, that piss me off.
One thing that is better, is assigning air units to HQ's. I haven't had to fiddle with one air unit in 1 year of war.
I assigned interceptor groups to the Berlin HQ, and it started running air defense. Give Tac and CAS to Armies and Army groups, and they give ground support.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 18, 2009, 05:15:21 PM
One thing that is better, is assigning air units to HQ's. I haven't had to fiddle with one air unit in 1 year of war.
I assigned interceptor groups to the Berlin HQ, and it started running air defense. Give Tac and CAS to Armies and Army groups, and they give ground support.
Are they doing a decent job, relatively? I tried that with one of the early patches and the HQ sent oll of the airgroups everywhere together causing bad stacking penalties, I had to control them my self or only allow one or two airgroups per HQ, which limited things.
That is neat.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 18, 2009, 05:12:55 PM
I've had the odd crash with Paradox, but they were mostly stable. The issues I had with HOI2 were a result of ancient video drivers, so it was my fault.
Maybe I was just unlucky or there was some common compatibility issue somewhere across the multiple systems (couple of different laptops and desktops) and games (HoI1/2, 2 different copies of Victoria heh, CK, EU2). I never played EU3 enough to see if it continued with that one. Bleh. Whatever it was, it's not happening now, so I'm happy. :P
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 18, 2009, 03:27:15 PM
Is the next project CK2? Because that is what I really, really, want.
I used to want that. Now I'm worried they'll fuck it up if they try.
Quote from: sbr on November 18, 2009, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 18, 2009, 05:15:21 PM
One thing that is better, is assigning air units to HQ's. I haven't had to fiddle with one air unit in 1 year of war.
I assigned interceptor groups to the Berlin HQ, and it started running air defense. Give Tac and CAS to Armies and Army groups, and they give ground support.
Are they doing a decent job, relatively? I tried that with one of the early patches and the HQ sent oll of the airgroups everywhere together causing bad stacking penalties, I had to control them my self or only allow one or two airgroups per HQ, which limited things.
They seem to be. Thing was, in Hoi2 I tended to forget about the airplanes, so I got used to fighting without them. In this one, I see the air groups roaming ahead of the Panzers. So any improvement is better to me.
Hell, in my test game, I'm letting List's army attack Sweden, and after setting the objectives, I'm letting it run it and I'm not even looking there. I just get the popups telling they are taking provinces and smashing IKEA factories.
The naval part of the game is still wonky though.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 18, 2009, 08:23:19 PM
The naval part of the game is still wonky though.
The irony being that the naval part is the most important part. By far.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 18, 2009, 03:08:37 PM
It never took this long before. I'd buy a Paradox product on the day of release, it would suck, but in a fun way, and then be fixed relatively quickly and be great.
It's kinda strange. It used to be that with Paradox games, there were major issues with stability and the like, plus a bunch of other bugs, but as you said, the games would still be a lot of fun when not crashing, and they would release a lot of patches. But then, the situation changed, and their games were a lot more stable, though there were still bugs to varying degrees, but the gameplay wasn't as fun. Rome was probably the ultimate example--I never had it crash, but it was just dull.
Also, it bothers me how they have gotten away from having so many patches and are releasing multiple expansions now. Now, just so that I'm not misunderstood, I know that expansions have added a lot of new content and features, and I don't mind having to pay for that. It's just that it seems to have taken away a lot of the emphasis Paradox used to put into bug fixes. First of all, a new expansion means no more official patches for the older versions. If you have EUIII, and don't want to pay for NA, or you got NA but don't want to get IN also, well, no more bug fixes for you. Also, there's more time and effort tied up in an expansion than in a patch. In the old days, if a bug that really bothered you didn't get fixed in a patch, there was a good chance that it would be fixed in another patch in a couple months (on occasion, more like a couple weeks). Now, you can wait 2 or 3 months for the next patch, but instead of a patch, they announce a new expansion that is still going to be a few months away. Well, I'm just kind of running on here, so I'll stop.
Oh, one more thing--I totally agree with ulmont about CK2. It's what I've really wanted from Paradox for a long time, but now I'm afraid it'll be crap.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 18, 2009, 08:23:19 PM
They seem to be. Thing was, in Hoi2 I tended to forget about the airplanes, so I got used to fighting without them. In this one, I see the air groups roaming ahead of the Panzers. So any improvement is better to me.
Usually what I tend to do is make a corps or army, name it something like "Air Force" or whatever, and assign it at the highest level I'm allowing AI control. Throw tacs, interceptors, multiroles, etc, in there as you build them, and let the AI dish out support as it sees fit through it's area of control.
At one point, I was using scrubby exp. forces to invade Greece (as an independent army), while letting the AI theater handle the other 5 fronts, or whatever silly number, and it was sending TACs and multiroles over to give me some support when things bogged down. They absolutely devastated the Greeks, then went back to slaughtering French, Czechs, and whoever else. Works great.
I do keep naval bombers and strategic bombers under my personal control though.
Quote from: dps on November 18, 2009, 10:21:54 PM...a lot of stuff about Paradox patching stuff
The other thing that gets me, is that their patches seem to be in "Betamode" for ever. I'm still waiting for the latest patch for IN which has been in Beta for over a year now. There's no doubt the zeal with which they used to release patches ended sometime after EU2.
Quote from: Josephus on November 19, 2009, 04:26:20 PM
The other thing that gets me, is that their patches seem to be in "Betamode" for ever. I'm still waiting for the latest patch for IN which has been in Beta for over a year now.
Same for the latest Deus Vult patch.
Lolz, Swedes have no staying power. Take Stockholm and they fold quickly.
Quote from: Josephus on November 19, 2009, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: dps on November 18, 2009, 10:21:54 PM...a lot of stuff about Paradox patching stuff
The other thing that gets me, is that their patches seem to be in "Betamode" for ever. I'm still waiting for the latest patch for IN which has been in Beta for over a year now. There's no doubt the zeal with which they used to release patches ended sometime after EU2.
I think the issue here is that it was decided beforehand that there was going to be an arbitrary limit of patches, say 2 for IN. Johan's superiors won't allow any further updates after version 3.2, hence the workaround of continuing as a beta patch.
I started a game as Japan, and have begun the long slog through China and those shitty little nations all around it. A massive amphibious assault took the Nationalists by surprise and pulled a bunch of troops off the main Manchuko line, allowing those guys up there to break through, smash the Commies, and take a bunch of property down south of that, but now part of that army is moving into Xibei San Ma, where supplies are impossible to find, infrastructure sucks, etc. I've set up supply chains stretching all the way back to Dalian, but the transport planes can't haul enough to keep things moving.
The damn chain is already four airbases long, and it looks like it's going to need at least one more.
I will say, it's pretty cool watching them take shit shipped in from the islands, fly it to Beiping, where another transport grabs it, shuttles it to Yan'an, where it gets thrown to Chankou, then dropped on the troops at the front from there.
I guess the good news is after I finally take this damn country and puppet them, they'll be pretty hooked up with airbases, infra, etc.
Quote from: Ancient Demon on November 20, 2009, 02:02:52 AM
I think the issue here is that it was decided beforehand that there was going to be an arbitrary limit of patches, say 2 for IN. Johan's superiors won't allow any further updates after version 3.2, hence the workaround of continuing as a beta patch.
Right. So, like I said, the zeal with which they used to patch games stopped sometime after EU2.
I'm going to be starting the invasion of Russia on a historical timetable. 2 army Groups (Hurrying Heinz and Manstein), with about 6 large armies launching from Poland and Hungary. Romania is being pissy because I gave the gypsy nation their land.
I'm going to try and give army level specialist divisions a try, such as artillery divisions(2 arty & 2 rocket brigades each) attached to army HQ as a sort of army asset.
fucking game better not crash.
Fantastic thread in the HOI3 forums.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=445921
First post.
Quote from: pbar25I purchased this game on Steam.
Since 1.3, no Steam players can play mutli-player with non-Steam players unless they apply a "user fix" which is a sticky within Tech Support.
I have not seen one post, not even within the sticky, regarding this issue from Paradox.
I can only conclude that they will not fix this issue until a future patch or whenever it is convenient. That is simply pathetic & lazy.
Paradox has 10 days to fix this issue or I will declare internet warfare upon them. That does not involve hacking, anything malicious, or anything illegal. I do not think I'm a bad-ass threatening the apocalypse upon Paradox.
But it will involve the spreading of information across the intranet, something of which, among very few things, I have a knack for.
Please fix the issue for your game's sake. I do not take issues of irresponsible business lightly when it involves my own cash, time & the free market.
Best post so far, #16
Quote from: polycratesI am speaking to you from the "Why Would I Ever Buy This Game Again" thread at HoI3 Forum, Paradox Forums. This morning pbar25 in USA handed the Paradox Team a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 10 days that they were prepared at once to withdraw their different HoI3 version from Steam, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this internet is at war with Paradox.
You can imagine what a bitter blow it is to me that all my long struggle to win peace has failed.
Yet I cannot believe that there is anything more or anything different that I could have done and that would have been more successful. Up to the very last it would have been quite possible to have arranged a peaceful and honourable settlement between Paradox and the Internet.
But Johan would not have it. He had evidently made up his mind to attack Steam users whatever happened; and although he now says he put forward reasonable proposals which were rejected by the "Steamies", that is not a true statement. The proposals were never shown to the "Steamies" nor to us; and though they were announced in the Paradox broadcast on Thursday night, Johan did not wait to hear comments on them, but ordered his staff to cross the checksum frontier next morning.
His action shows convincingly that there is no chance of expecting that this man will ever give up his practice of using force to gain his will. He can only be stopped by force and we and France are to-day, in fulfilment of our obligations, going to the aid of Steam users, who are so bravely resisting this wicked and unprovoked attack upon their videogame.
We have a clear conscience. We have done all that any forum could do to establish peace, but a situation in which no word given by Paradox's ruler could be trusted and no people or forum could feel themselves safe had become intolerable. And now that we have resolved to finish it, I know that you will all play your part with calmness and courage.
Another good one
Quote from: deadlygopherWhatever you do, Johan, don't hand your war effort over to the AI.
Eh. See post 6.
Edit: I do like the guy on page three talking about buying it from Steam, then having to "pirate" a copy to have an actual working game and almost immediately getting a :MADFACE: THAT'S NOT COOL MAN type response. Yeah asshole! Buy it again from somewhere else, or wait however long for a possible fix!
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 20, 2009, 03:42:58 PM
I'm going to be starting the invasion of Russia on a historical timetable. 2 army Groups (Hurrying Heinz and Manstein), with about 6 large armies launching from Poland and Hungary. Romania is being pissy because I gave the gypsy nation their land.
I'm going to try and give army level specialist divisions a try, such as artillery divisions(2 arty & 2 rocket brigades each) attached to army HQ as a sort of army asset.
fucking game better not crash.
never could be arsed to finish it.
Those posts are funny. The internets are petty dictators and their demands are unforgivable.
Incidentally, do we have any ideas of sales compared to past titles?
Quote from: Faeelin on November 25, 2009, 04:03:14 PM
Incidentally, do we have any ideas of sales compared to past titles?
There was a post about a year ago maybe where Johan gave a vague list, but never any real concrete numbers.
I know he said that EU1 sold more copies than EU2 and that EU2 was one of, if not the worst selling of their "major" games. Rome sold better than you would have thought, probably only behind HOI3 and EUIII. I am sure HOI3 and EUIII are far any away their top sellers :obvious:
Quote from: sbr on November 25, 2009, 05:21:59 PM
I know he said that EU1 sold more copies than EU2 and that EU2 was one of, if not the worst selling of their "major" games. Rome sold better than you would have thought, probably only behind HOI3 and EUIII. I am sure HOI3 and EUIII are far any away their top sellers :obvious:
I'm sure EU3 was, but I wonder about HOI. It's already 15 bucks on steam after all.
Quote from: Faeelin on November 25, 2009, 07:31:14 PM
Quote from: sbr on November 25, 2009, 05:21:59 PM
I know he said that EU1 sold more copies than EU2 and that EU2 was one of, if not the worst selling of their "major" games. Rome sold better than you would have thought, probably only behind HOI3 and EUIII. I am sure HOI3 and EUIII are far any away their top sellers :obvious:
I'm sure EU3 was, but I wonder about HOI. It's already 15 bucks on steam after all.
They have never made any sales numbers public but I would be shocked if HOI3 didn't come close just in pre-orders and people that bought the game before everyone realized it was fucked.
From the guy that started the thread I linked before
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2Fjohanpeaceinourtime.jpg&hash=c5d318185e55697a1c763245b39cff52d205295d)
:lol:
That's what happens when retards buy from Steam.
:nelson:
I like Steam. I think it's pretty nifty. I've not had any major problems with it. I did buy HOI3 from Gamersgate (fat lot of good it did).
Quote from: sbr on November 25, 2009, 05:21:59 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on November 25, 2009, 04:03:14 PM
Incidentally, do we have any ideas of sales compared to past titles?
There was a post about a year ago maybe where Johan gave a vague list, but never any real concrete numbers.
I know he said that EU1 sold more copies than EU2 and that EU2 was one of, if not the worst selling of their "major" games. Rome sold better than you would have thought, probably only behind HOI3 and EUIII. I am sure HOI3 and EUIII are far any away their top sellers :obvious:
I'm pretty sure that Johan posted once that Victoria had been their worst-selling title.
Quote from: dps on November 26, 2009, 02:49:40 AM
Quote from: sbr on November 25, 2009, 05:21:59 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on November 25, 2009, 04:03:14 PM
Incidentally, do we have any ideas of sales compared to past titles?
There was a post about a year ago maybe where Johan gave a vague list, but never any real concrete numbers.
I know he said that EU1 sold more copies than EU2 and that EU2 was one of, if not the worst selling of their "major" games. Rome sold better than you would have thought, probably only behind HOI3 and EUIII. I am sure HOI3 and EUIII are far any away their top sellers :obvious:
I'm pretty sure that Johan posted once that Victoria had been their worst-selling title.
That is entirely possible, I was just surprised how low EU2 was so I may be over(or under)-stating things here.
EU2 was rated lower than EU1 (which also surprises me. Evidently most of the EU1 buyers didn't register on the forums. Or some crazy rich guy bought like 100,000 copies).
Yeah, that doesn't seem right to me. The P'dox forum was still a desert when I joined back in 2001. It wasn't until EU2 and then HOI that it got out of hand. Unless all those peeps downloaded those games? ;)
I think that it may have been distribution issues. I don't think that EUII was on the shelves of as many retailers as EUI had been. For one thing, there weren't as many outlets selling computer games--a lot had gone over to being mostly focused on console games, and a lot of places that still sold computer games had cut back the amount of space that they had for computer games--again, mainly in favor of console games. And on-line distribution wasn't as widely used as it was by the time EUIII came out.
Yeah, whereas I remember more shelf-space for eu1 and it was even on shelves longer once it went discount (eu2 disappeared). At any rate, it would be foolish to ignore the community of impact of eu2. That's where the name began to get known.
Surprised that EU2 was rated low. I loved both games. I even enjoyed HOI to an extent.
I just really hope PC games remain a market.
Quote from: garbon on November 26, 2009, 03:41:51 PM
Yeah, whereas I remember more shelf-space for eu1 and it was even on shelves longer once it went discount (eu2 disappeared). At any rate, it would be foolish to ignore the community of impact of eu2. That's where the name began to get known.
I had never heard of Europa Universalis when the first game came out--I can't even recall reading any reviews of it in any of the gaming magazines--but I saw it on game shelves everywhere, decided it looked interesting, and eventually bought it. When EUII came out, I was of course aware of its release, but I had trouble finding it anywhere.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 26, 2009, 08:59:29 PM
I just really hope PC games remain a market.
They will be for the immediate future.
So, is this game playable yet?
If not, what's the main problem/s with it?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 26, 2009, 10:34:18 PM
So, is this game playable yet?
If not, what's the main problem/s with it?
Map sucks. :P
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 26, 2009, 10:34:18 PM
So, is this game playable yet?
If not, what's the main problem/s with it?
It's been tainted. :( :( :(
Available on GG as Cyber Monday ( :perv: ?) offer for 11.98 EUR.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 26, 2009, 10:34:18 PM
So, is this game playable yet?
If not, what's the main problem/s with it?
It's quite playable, but it suffers the same problems as HOI2. Air power can be ignored completely. The AI is not capable of engaging in massive naval invasions (don't hold your breath for D-Day) or defending against minor player naval invasions (Sealion is much too easy). The AI seems to handle the game just fine with respect to ground wars between two ground powers such as France, Germany, and the USSR, but USA, Japan, Italy, and the UK never perform quite as they should.
I love the HQ hierarchy system. Half the fun of each new game is renaming and reorganizing the command structure to my own liking.
Quote from: Fate on November 30, 2009, 08:03:12 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 26, 2009, 10:34:18 PM
So, is this game playable yet?
If not, what's the main problem/s with it?
It's quite playable, but it suffers the same problems as HOI2. Air power can be ignored completely. The AI is not capable of engaging in massive naval invasions (don't hold your breath for D-Day) or defending against minor player naval invasions (Sealion is much too easy). The AI seems to handle the game just fine with respect to ground wars between two ground powers such as France, Germany, and the USSR, but USA, Japan, Italy, and the UK never perform quite as they should.
I just wanna say "What the fuck" to this. 3 times in a row and mods are still doing it better?
Yeah, it's stupid. However I bought the game to play Germany and the Soviet Union so it works well enough. :blush:
Quote from: Fate on December 01, 2009, 12:17:50 PM
Yeah, it's stupid. However I bought the game to play Germany and the Soviet Union so it works well enough. :blush:
They should just put all their energy into creating an East Front game.
Is it worth EUR 7:50?
No.
I knew it!
Playing Japan, I stab the Bolshies in the back with the KMT when the German Computer AI assrapes the Russians. Bitter peace fires, and I get a chunk of the coast. I feel ripped off, but start withdrawing the KMT. 1 month later, a defeated Russia attacks Germany. With a good sized chunk of the KMT still marching out of Russia.
And thus a fun game goes down the drain as the game slows to a crawl and is boned by stupidity.
Major bugs fixed my ass.
There's long been mandatory mods for the bitter peace event.
Quote from: frunk on February 08, 2010, 08:36:16 PM
There's long been mandatory mods for the bitter peace event.
Paradox forum refuses my steam HOI3 cd-key, therefore, I am a filthy pirate-customer, so I don't bother with their forums.
Or buying Paradox games anymore.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 09, 2010, 08:08:57 AM
Quote from: frunk on February 08, 2010, 08:36:16 PM
There's long been mandatory mods for the bitter peace event.
Paradox forum refuses my steam HOI3 cd-key, therefore, I am a filthy pirate-customer, so I don't bother with their forums.
Or buying Paradox games anymore.
Why on Earth did you use Steam? I steer clear of that clusterfuck; Gamersgate suits me just fine.
I am not a big Steam fan, but I have bought a few really cheap games from them. I would never buy a P'dox game from them; the cd-keys not working is very common. There are also problems with getting the patches and mods to work, not good for a Paradox game to not be able to patch or mod it.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 09, 2010, 08:08:57 AM
Or buying Paradox games anymore.
That was your first mistake: Being an enabler.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 09, 2010, 12:09:13 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 09, 2010, 08:08:57 AM
Quote from: frunk on February 08, 2010, 08:36:16 PM
There's long been mandatory mods for the bitter peace event.
Paradox forum refuses my steam HOI3 cd-key, therefore, I am a filthy pirate-customer, so I don't bother with their forums.
Or buying Paradox games anymore.
Why on Earth did you use Steam? I steer clear of that clusterfuck; Gamersgate suits me just fine.
It was cheap.
Quote from: Neil on February 09, 2010, 12:22:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 09, 2010, 08:08:57 AM
Or buying Paradox games anymore.
That was your first mistake: Being an enabler.
I know. :blush:
Next time, I'll just wait the year and buy Paradox games at Big Lots or Half Price Books for 6 bucks if I want it. If it bones me, it is only the cost of a meal at Chick-Fil-A.
1.4 Public Beta is out
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461442
Quote from: sbr on February 18, 2010, 11:55:56 AM
1.4 Public Beta is out
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461442
1) What does it theoretically fix?
2) At what price point is HoI3 worth buying? $15? $10?
Quote from: ulmont on February 18, 2010, 12:04:59 PM
Quote from: sbr on February 18, 2010, 11:55:56 AM
1.4 Public Beta is out
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461442
1) What does it theoretically fix?
2) At what price point is HoI3 worth buying? $15? $10?
It has only been up for an hour, I have started dl'ing it but no further.
I am not sure how much it is worth at this point. I have started about 4 games, all as Germany, and haven't gone further than about Sept. 10, '39. I just can't get into it but I am not exactly sure why; hopefully there is a magical fix for me in here.
Change log
################################################## ##########
# Changes for 1.4 below.
################################################## ##########
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- AI Improvements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Unit AI
- Improved attack cooperation between countries and different agents
- Fixed an issue with low _current_ infrastructure causing the AI to disregard many front provinces
- Fixed some prio issues that stupidly emptied a threatened front province of troops
- Fixed some problems with reserve usage along fronts that could cause all units to be pulled back (especially for unmobilized countries on DoW.)
- Fixed some superstack issues
- Fixed a serious superstacking issue with unlimited troops allowed to match and surpass enemy forces
- Better checks before allies send their whole army to help against some weak enemy
- Fixed a problem with invaders and overseas units incorrectly being marked as garrisons and locking up
- Fixed an issue where it would not return exp forces correctly
- Improved garrison code to better handle multiple areas within a theatre
- Fixed some problems with reserve usage along fronts that could cause all units to be pulled back (especially for unmobilized countries on DoW.)
- Fixed a bad bug that could cause all divisions to go to the same province
- Will reinforce coastal provinces under attack by invaders
* HQ AI
- Allies should now be able to operate properly within each other's territory
- Rebalanced inter-theatre unit reassignments
- Improved retrieval of armies from foreign areas
* Invasion AI
- Avoids target provinces with only a strait as a border (like the Channel Islands)
- Prioritizes provinces that border many others
- Will not reinforce beachheads if it will severely overstack. Instead, will attempt more landings nearby.
- Better at transporting HQs to the areas with their divisions
- Fixed a nasty problem with the transport AI completely locking up
* Air AI
- Fixed a bug with interceptors constantly being sent to enemy air bases
- Will divert TAC and CAG to bomb invasion fleets
* Misc
- Fixed several issues with DoW and preparations for DoW
- Fixed issue with too many starting techs in research queue for the AI
- Optimized mission selection for spies in countries without spies
- AI now avoids researching ahead of time more
- AI should no longer burn manpower when at war if it needs for reinforcement.
- Fixed an issue with theatres not always updating their borders when neighboring provinces changed controller
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Gamebalance Changes
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Supply
- Landlocked areas without supply production will be attached to allied supply networks where possible.
- Being completely out of supply now reduces organisation daily.
- Air Transports can now ship less supplies.
- Rewrote supply logisitics definitions to properly handle connected areas between puppets and non-puppets.
* Partisans & Revolts
- Partisans are now slightly more common.
- Partisans is now increasing supply tax far more.
- Revolt risk now reduces resource, manpower and IC from that province.
- Improved police brigade is now a bit better at improving suppression.
- Police Brigades now costs a little less manpower to build.
- Suppression is now checked for up to 2 provinces away.
- Occupation policies now impact resource gain as well.
- Weaker occupation policies are no longer as good for getting manpower & leadership.
- Revoltrisk is now applied after nationalism is calculated, so impact on RR works.
- Nationalism is a bit more powerful now, but there is no longer a minimum revolt risk.
* Technology
- Updated starting techs for: Australia, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Netherlands, Hungary, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Nationalist Spain, Republican Spain, Sweden, Turkey & Yugoslavia.
- Fuel and Supply consumption increases from technology gains are now percentage instead of absolute.
- Increased fuel-usage by about 15% for all units.
- Fixed research progress, could start do diverge, making it impossible to finish.
- Research efficiency techs now work properly.
* Diplomacy
- Increased the proximity impact on alignment.
- Revanschism is now scaled by victory percentage of a faction, where higher is making the countries less likely to care about it, and lower makes them far more likely to pushed away.
- Reduced threat caused by combat and construction significantly.
- There's no longer possible to revoke an embargo against a country you're at war with.
- It is now possible to declare war on a country you're guaranteeing.
* Land
- Engineers are now much better at defending in all rough terrain.
- Engineers now gives nice bonuses to defending.
- Tweaked stats of several support brigades, strenghening some and weakening others.
- Decreased strength damage from combat by 20%.
- Paratroopers now requires more officers, and have a slightly worse base hard attack.
- Its no longer possible to extend the radio range of a HQ by stacking some tank brigades with a big radio strength together with it.
- Suppression can no longer propagate over water.
- AA Carriage Sights now increases soft attack slightly as well for AA brigades.
- Bergsjaegers now gets more benefits from mountain warfare equipment.
- Damage to org on divisions are no longer scaled by strength of the brigade, but evenly.
* Air
- Air units that are based in hostile territory will now try to rebase in their daily update and be destroyed if they fail.
- Stationary AA is now slightly more powerful.
- Severly reduced the effect of strategic bombing.
- Close Air Support and Tactical bombing is now twice as good.
- AA on landunits is now a fair bit better.
- All types of AA can now fire occasionally even if modified value is <1%, (using same algoritm as normal combat now.)
- Air combat is now slightly bloodier.
- Added a few more restrictions to how nuke missions can be assigned.
* Navy
- A fleet containing carriers will no longer attempt to close with an enemy fleet, but a faster enemy may force a closing.
- Units on naval patrol now avoids stronger fleets if on defensive or passive stance.
- Severly decreased the cost of building cags, but lengthened the time to be similar to carrier builds.
- Fixed problem with navies not being able to escape hostile ports into certain provinces (gibraltar, panama...).
- Effective visibility can never be below 1 when detect checks are made now.
- Fixed an exploit with navy and air ranges.
* Submarines
- Worse positioning for submarines
- "Fleet_auxiliary_submarine_doctrine" and "trade_interdiction_submarine_doctrine" change boni and get them raised.
- Higher org and morale by submarine_crew_training.
- Increase in positioning by Acoustic torpedo tech.
- Better Sea attack on Submarines.
- Upgradable AA on Submarines.
- IC cost slightly reduced on Submarines.
- Visibility dependent on Hull tech.
- Hull tech don't increase Sea defence.
- Hull tech got higher difficulty.
- Included a "Sea_defence" boni in "Sonar" tech.
- "Sonar" tech got increased difficulty.
- Smallwarship_asw increased difficulty.
- Light Cruisers got slightly worse Sub_attack by Smallwarship_asw.
- Increase of difficulty of submarine_technology.
- Slight decrease in Convoy Raiding on submarines.
- Effect of Seawolf trait increased 100%.
* Strategic Warfare
- Damage done to convoys now impact National Unity hits.
- Tweaked up the NU impact from attacking convoys severly.
- Strength damage to convoy raiders is now far less, and its mostly org losses inflicted from escorts.
- Decreased impact from ASW on sub warfare.
- Supporting parties through spies is now more potent.
* Production
- Rocket Tests and Nuclear Reactors now give far more practical when built.
- Escorts and convoys are now a fair bit more expensive to build.
- Reserves cost modifier is now applied correctly as a percentage of cost.
- Building ships now properly draws manpower at construciton for entire series.
* Weather
- Winters can now be much colder.
- Cold winters now slow down movement much more, with same threshold as landcombat impact.
- Severly increased the penalty for offensive combat in extreme cold.
* Manpower & Leadership
- Service by Requirement now gives far more manpower.
- Soviet Union now gets more manpower from their decisions.
- Increased manpower in Soviet Union by about 25%.
- Added leadership to Holland, Belgium, Canada, Australia, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Czechoslovakia & Hungary.
* Leaders & Ministers
- Doubled xp gain from leaders.
- Leader auto-assignment now handles river crossing trait correctly.
- Pigheaded isolationist now impact suspeptibility instead of neutrality.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Interface Improvements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Added a tooltip for port throughput in supply mapmode.
- Colorized and tweaked the tooltips for supply mapmode.
- Improved coloration in revoltrisk mapmode.
- Research alert now checks the year for the next tech, not the current tech.
- Range checks are now applied properly in the order interface.
- Fixed chat output after selecting units.
- Added a tooltip to the mobilisation button, detailing approximately how much manpower is needed to mobilise.
- Added tooltips to the deployment interface, so that is easier to see details of military units there.
- Improved the tooltip for national unit value, to show the monthly change in detail.
- Improved tooltip for money gain.
- If you have trade automation or full diplomatic automation on, you will no longer see messages about trade.
- Improved tooltips for resources in the production screen.
- Fixed a few precision errors with the production and leadership slider values.
- Fixed resetting sliders in production view.
- Fixed production sliders going below zero.
- Each message about techlevel now shows exactly what that level will give you.
- Upgrading doctrines on a unit will no longer change the model name.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- User Modding
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Added a modifier called 'local_resources'.
- Added new date trigger, to make year and month triggers more readable.
- Added a "load_oob = filename" effect. Use filename as a localisation tag for information. File to load must be in the units catalog, and will be ADDED to the current OOB.
- Exported alot functions for handling flags and variables in the .lua script.
- Added alot of calculation functions for units and other things to the .lua script.
- Full details of all new .lua function at ( http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...7&postcount=27 )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Performace and Stability
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Optimisations
- Moved some optimizations from HTTT to HOI3.
- Alot of optimisations done, with focus on supply calculation, event engine and the AI.
- Optimized ai calculate odds. Large battles should not "freeze" the game anymore.
- Optimized space usage of flag file, and made it a power of 2, fixing compability issues with some ATI cards.
- Severe optimisation of framerate to make the game feel more responsive.
* Map
- Map shader precision fix. ATI miscolored provinces bug solved.
- Solved border ati graphics problem.
- Underlying map-code have been rewritten, reducing the memory footprint significantly.
- Making a new map by modders will no longer take hours to compress, but merely minutes.
- The maprendering is now much quicker and should work better with lesser cards.
- Zhele(sp?) is no longer at two places on the map.
- Fixed a few duplicated seazones.
* Stability
- Fixed "Creating Rivers" crashbug.
- Fixed crash related to broken owner areas and the theatre ai.
- fixed crash in german diplomacy ai
- Fixed crash when France surrenders.
- Fixed crash when Denmark surrenders.
- Fixed Crash when Manchuku surrenders.
- Fixed crashbug related to unit shattering.
- Fixed infinite loop in textbuffer.
* Savegames
- Fixed another corruption of savegames.
- Radarstation status is now properly loaded when a game is reloaded multiple times.
- Bonus organisation is now properly loaded from savegames and no longer lost.
- Automatic deployment check box now set correctly when loading a save game.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Database Changes
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Events & Decisions
- Fixed Danzig or War when Poland is part of the Axis
- Added a few random events with some positive effects.
- Added an event for Vichy to dissapear.
- There is now a decision to create Mengkukuo
* Scenario Setup
- Improved the fortress at Sevastopol.
- Revised a few italian generals ranks to fit the starting OOB's better.
- Removed an erroneous army in the 1936 OOB for France.
- Fixed location of french airforce in 38 and 39 OOB's.
- Revised a few french generals ranks to fit the starting OOB's better.
- Fixed a few broken units in the Japanese 1941 OOB.
- Added the missing picture of the Hungarian leader Nemerey.
- Added the missing picture for Italian general Appiotti.
- Plenty more head of states are now pigheaded isolationists.
- Kwantung theatre is now working properly in all scenarios.
I've gotten my money's worth out of it, but up through 1.3:
It's only a good game playing as Germany
It takes some modding to even get that
There's a lot of promising changes in 1.4, which I plan to try out this weekend.
Right now my biggest problem is the Attack Delay. Having to wait 48-72 hours between attacks in Poland is absurd and I just don't care enough about the rest of the game to put any effort into modding, or even looking for a mod to fix it.
I tend to manage at a high level, giving commands to armies (or later on army groups) and letting them carry them out. Then I don't care about the attack delay except in that I try to reduce it to make my offensives more effective.
I don't see any fix for the "game sucks" problem.
Quote- Rewrote supply logisitics definitions to properly handle connected areas between puppets and non-puppets.
This is important because this stuff ruined a reasonably fun (albeit very silly) UK game I had.
However, there is still no cancellation of unlimited naval range so whatever.
Quote from: ulmont on February 18, 2010, 12:04:59 PM
2) At what price point is HoI3 worth buying? $15? $10?
When they pay you $5.
:lol:
1.4 Beat RC 7 is out. It looks like Lothos, the HOI2 AI guru was involved in this latest version of the patch. That is promising.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10885451&postcount=9 -
Quote from: LothosQuoteYou modified them for RC7?
Yes mainly
ai_production_minister.lua
So all feedback is welcomed! Major changes to how Major powers build units in the que. Will now do serial runs and parallel runs and will also build full divisions. Also changes to building convoys and escorts.
Report?
Ah, here we go:
QuoteFirstly I know playing against human opponents is the better way to get a better War, but like a lot of ppl, getting on to play a game against an opponent without getting interrupted and having to stop or go AFK is difficult for some. Thats why we play games against computers.
I also understand that the AI isnt easy like Chess programs where there are only a finite number of moves.
Having said that it is disappointing that the end games do not really materialize with the AI.
Im only playing 1.3 but my results so far:
1. As Germany I played the 36 scenario only to find when France is about to surrender the game crashes and my saved Game no longer loads.
2. So I decide to try the Barbarossa campaign, only to find my panzer divisions cannot get supplied for a year.
3. As Italy I start at '36, get Albania, get Greece take area around Suez canal. Eagerly awaits the Africa campaign. 1941 comes still no campaign. Germany has France, notice a lot of German troops just sitting there. England still intact Germany didnt try and take England. So I decide to to load my game and look at what the English are doing.....
Mmmmm they decided to use 33% of their IC to build Escorts (they have a large Empire) thats 60/192 building Escorts. They have 40 Transports and 1800 (yes 1800) Escorts already. They seem to have all HQ's in England and maybe 4 divisions scattered in India. No wonder there is no AFrican campaign.
I see a lot of posts concerning AI especially about the Major Naval powers and their failure to Invade due to supply issues. Japan having trouble taking China, the USA doing anything useful at all. I found out the UK's problem myself. I still see posts about 1.4's AI not much better.
One question I have.... is this game really only a player versus player game OR a great game if you play Cuba or Honduras. I personally bought the game to play a major power.
Perhaps someone who has played Russia can tell me if the game is interesting or challenging before I try that major Power, or should I just save my time and wait for 1.5 or the expansion?
The Dev Team Responds:
Quote1. is solved in 1.4
Elsewhere:
QuoteSoviet research AI is crazy. If that were changed, it could make a big difference. They do not research any tank tech or hardly any infantry tech. In 1.4 RC5, I found they had 1918 infantry mostly and just recently got 1936 in 1941. No artillery tech, no brigades. Instead they had 1942-1944 land doctrines, researching even with big penalties. This kills them.
If they had proper infantry and artillery, they could hold the Germans longer. If they actual tank divisions (I have never seen them build armor and no motorized) they would have a chance to plug some gaps. They neglect their air force as bad as anything too.
Barbarossa isn't easy to model, Soviets have to get pushed back and recover. For starters, perhaps just putting up a good initial defense would be good.
The players are trying to fix the USSR. In 1.4.
So is this the one that makes the game playable?
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2010, 07:22:19 PM
So is this the one that makes the game playable?
You have to wait till they release some DLC on gamersgate.
1.4 is out. Could someone with a supercomputer try it out and report back.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468366
EDIT: wrong thread sorry.
G.
1.4 is horrible. France placed zero units on the Maginot Line when I had 3/4ths of my army on their border. Being able to annex both France and Poland in a single month is a bit much...
Quote from: Fate on April 05, 2010, 02:20:20 PM
1.4 is horrible. France placed zero units on the Maginot Line when I had 3/4ths of my army on their border. Being able to annex both France and Poland in a single month is a bit much...
:lol: Guess I'll wait till 1.5 to reinstall this.
Tried 1.4 and it is slightly better. France is a LOT stronger now. Britain puts a big chunk of its army in France and both defend well.
War in the east is still too easy or too hard. Either USSR is beaten in the first month and never recovers or, if I give it extra manpower early or focus more on the navy as Germany, there is an unmovable wall in the east.
For the amount of effort spent on supply and theater simulation they do almost nothing. Against the AI on hard difficulty the German army should be one-fifth as effective when it gets to Moscow. Theaters should be event created and run in layers. Border layer, inner layer, core layer. The Soviet AI should keep a third of its army in the core theater.
There are a couple of mods that are supposed to really improve the AI
DiDay's mod adds some other things to the game I believe http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=467
AI Improvement Pack AI improvement only http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=469
AFAIK both have a 1.4 version now.
quill18 is doing a Let's Play as USSR. The first two episodes run at over an hour total where he goes over research, OOB etc. It's also a decent n00b intro, I guess:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3acGYgI1-sN8XLKpsjLzZGxxD6cd2gp