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#1

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 08:24:18 AM

Yeah totally agree. And I think there's a fair amount of distraction on this rather than how this group were able to break into RAF Brize Norton and right up to the planes to do it. As I said earlier, to my mind, that's borderline a resigning issue.

Brize Norton's the home of a lot of the RAF (and I think biggest RAF base), it's the sole embarkation point for British troops being transported by the RAF, it's where the royal, government and foreign dignitary planes land when they're travelling to London. It's a pretty serious security failing - half expecting to discover that we've actually outsourced military base security to G4S.

#2

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Richard Hakluyt - Today at 08:13:57 AM

It would be capricious if the government deciding not to arrest those supporting a group it had declared a terrorist organization.

The red lines for me are material support and incitement to violence.  Everything besides that should be an issue for manners, not the criminal code.

The particular group in question likes to throw red paint on things, including a couple of military jets. The appropriate response would be to charge the offenders with criminal damage (which carries a sentence of up to 10 years), but the government has decided that this non-violent direct action should be treated under terrorism laws. By proscribing the organisation even expressions of support become offences under the terrorism act.

#3

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 08:13:29 AM

Only 26 MPs voted against the legislation.

Tories and Labour backed it (I think there were about 10 Labour rebels), the unionist MPs backed it, Lib Dems split equally. Greens and SDLP voted against. Interestingly the SNP just didn't turn up.

And worth noting that inevitably the order also proscribed some more clear organisations like the Maniac Murder Club (neo-Nazis) and Russian Imperial Movement.

#4

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 08:05:26 AM

People on Reddit claimed London Pride was held up for an hour after pro-Palestine protestors threw stuff (paint, I think?) on the march. Odd I didn't see anything about it on the Guardian.

From social media it did happen but was probably not a big deal (just threw some red paint on police vehicles and the road). But also this is relatively common - in recent years climate protesters and gender critical lesbians (who were barred from the main parade) have also done this sort of protest.

On Palestine Action, it's absurd that they've been proscribed as a terrorist organisation - but as they have, as Garbon says, this kind of flows from it. And on Jos' point I think there's a fair amount of case law and guidance for the police on that because it is complicated. For comparison, the list of other proscribed organisations under counter-terrorism legislation:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proscribed-terror-groups-or-organisations--2/proscribed-terrorist-groups-or-organisations-accessible-version

(I do think wanting to commit violence against people should be a minimum criteria for being listed as terrorists...)

[it had declared]

#5

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by mongers - Today at 07:38:18 AM

29 "terrorists" were arrested in London https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gd3pkr9x1o 

It would be capricious if the government deciding not to arrest those supporting a group it had declared a terrorist organization.

Yeah, it's not like this is a move straight out of the trump playbook or anything.

Only 26 MPs voted against the legislation.

 

#6

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Admiral Yi - Today at 07:34:51 AM

The UK operates differently from the US.

And based on what I've read I concluded they're doing it wrong.

#7

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by garbon - Today at 07:30:33 AM

It would be capricious if the government deciding not to arrest those supporting a group it had declared a terrorist organization.

The red lines for me are material support and incitement to violence.  Everything besides that should be an issue for manners, not the criminal code.

The UK operates differently from the US.

#8

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by garbon - Today at 07:26:39 AM

29 "terrorists" were arrested in London https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gd3pkr9x1o 

It would be capricious if the government deciding not to arrest those supporting a group it had declared a terrorist organization.

Yeah, it's not like this is a move straight out of the trump playbook or anything.

Only 26 MPs voted against the legislation.

#9

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Admiral Yi - Today at 07:25:39 AM

It would be capricious if the government deciding not to arrest those supporting a group it had declared a terrorist organization.

The red lines for me are material support and incitement to violence.  Everything besides that should be an issue for manners, not the criminal code.

#10

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by mongers - Today at 07:25:16 AM

29 "terrorists" were arrested in London https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gd3pkr9x1o 

It would be capricious if the government deciding not to arrest those supporting a group it had declared a terrorist organization.

Yeah, it's not like this is a move straight out of the trump playbook or anything.