Poll
Thank you, Mr. Glass Ceiling.
Macron with his pro mass immigration stance could help Marine in 2022. He went to Berlin to congratulate Merkel for her disastrous immigration policy.
OTOH, even having a majority will be difficult since since he never ran for office and has no real party behind him unless the PS collapses totally, which could happen.
Hmm, where have I heard something similar? I wonder how it worked for them...
Please no references to nazism - that's ridiculous.
G.
Says the guy with the statue symbolizing the Nazi party in his avatar.
I wagered the forum either already knew or could infer their Putin-sucking-attitude. anti-eu usually equals sucking Putin's cock.
That should be good for Macron. But then again, Trump was supposed to be the best candidate for Clinton.
Some people were predicting Melenchon vs Le Pen. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
:yeah:
At least Chirac was immensely experienced - and Jean-Marie Le Pen was loathsome.
Little Manu is not even 40 years old, has not even been elected once, is as much part of the 'system' as the others, and is 'Mouvement EM' has not even a MNA. And Marine is not her father, she has successfully broadened her support to make FN 'palatable'.
What I am afraid is that all these calls to vote Macron on the 2nd Turn will backfire - because they have all seen it before, and because those who call for it are all, themselves, from the Establishment. This election puts in the light how much fed up the electors are with all this.
Young people are the worst!
At least EM is not you.
Ooh, look at this tough guy.
I couldn't agree more. It appears a majority of French are fancying more terror attacks, more social dissolution, more economic regression... for fear of... what exactly?
G.
For starters, demographic death spiral and the bankruptcy of the welfare state.
The bankruptcy of the welfare state wouldn't be happening if the wealth created by globalization wasn't captured at its source by a rapacious transnational elite who has no allegiance to anything but its own wallet.
As for the demographic death spiral it could be alleviated through other means than immigration from third world shitholes whose populations are determined to drag the West down to the level of shithole-iness they're accustomed to.
G.
Becoming a Putinist puppet state. You know, like America did.
Are Blairists really popular now? He always seemed to be a globalist neoliberal and not a populist. :bowler:
The later cloaked the former.
Ain't that the truth. I wonder, though: how much of Trump's wink-wink endorsement of Le Pen is going to backfire with the not-so-wink-wink French disdain for America?
Lol :lol:
Does he actually claim the throne?
It depends a lot on how they left the throne and if they retain their assets. And they tend to support each other a lot, over here the Spanish royal family has a number of hanger-on relatives from former royal houses (Greece and Bulgaria come to mind), and they use their contacts a lot to do business.
You may have more insight, I have less faith.
Too late Mongers, France already has it. :P
For once, I agree with Mono. :o
Enjoy your 'poodle war' at the heals of pres.Trump. :D
Shut up Marine fan! :D
Merci pour ce moment !
:x
Having a gerontophile is such an improvement?
I feel for you because I know you mean well but you just don't see it. I hope you don't have kids because they'll be the ones forced to wear burkas and/or getting their heads chopped off for religious crimes.
Yeah Algeria is known as a hot bed of liberalism.
:pinch:
You're saying that a religious minority will take over the country against the will of the majority?
Algeria sucks but not even there are women required to wear the Burkha or get beheaded for religious crimes.
Oh yeah he really got me there :lol:
Did I claim that? No. Goal post moving is not a winning argument.
OOOH BURN
DUNE COON BOOM
I beg to differ.
I doubt it. This Le Pen isn't the same as the old Le Pen, and will still get crushed. If the far right needs 50% of votes plus one, they won't win elections in western european democracies anytime soon.
Where are you getting your information on the state of France from?
it has happened before.
----
that said: Macron will likely end up being more of the same due to the places where his support has to come from. The economic reform France desperately needs is not going to happen (easily): the unions will make sure of that.
So after 5 years of likely more of the same the second round will probably going between a Melenchon-type and a Le Pen-type: both extreme left but the first with more migrants and the second with less. But both with the likely collapse of France's finances.
Information on France c. 2050? I don't believe I'm claiming to have facts about that. Are you familiar with the nature of time?
Yeah--I clearly put in the 50% threshold. I mean, I could see a far right party getting 33% or better, which could be massively problematic in most European countries. But a French presidential election? It isn't going to happen.
Whatever information that leads you to think that "a European Caliphate" like the one you describe is even remotely likely.
Yeah, IMO it's more likely that by 2050, the Euros will be trying to implement a "Final Solution" to the Muslim problem.
Is that more likely, or less likely, than another American Civil War?
By 2050 we will probably be on our third one. :P
Less.
Franco is his great-grandfather, right? :ph34r:
I had to look this up because I came up to this guy through random wiki surfing after listening to Mike Duncan's latest Revolutions podcast on the 1830 French Revolution. did you listen to it?
I haven't, I tend to wait until he finishes a Revolution and then binge it at the gym.
He just finished 1830 on Sunday so binge away.
Louis XX is not descended from any of the recent kings though, he goes through the Spanish Kings and his most recent French King ancestor is Louis XIV. I am happy to report that the descendants of Louis XV have all been extinguished in the male line.
He does have a fine looking head though, it would be lovely in a basket.
The mess happened when Philip The Fair's grandsons failed to have sons. This is just something to laugh at.
Look at all the votes the caliphal candidate got.
I believe he said that he's still going to do a couple of suplementals, but of course those are optative. I must say I rather liked this one, being so short and to the point. And I was also not very aware of its details, so it's always nice to learn new events.
But, of course, it's splintered. There are Legitimists, Orleanists aand Bonapartists. :P
Which is what saved France in 1871. Well that and Henri's idiocy, which is always a safe bet when you are dealing with the Bourbons. No offense Spain :P
Offend away, it's not as if we treat our Bourbons with much respect anyway. :P
Admiral Darlan would surely disagree.
They treat it alright in Kentucky.
I met a Bonapartist over there a few years back. Nuttier than squirrel shit.
More like none of Catherine de Medicis' inbred sons could manage to even try to father a (legitimate) son - and Marguerite was barren. Talk about a kick in the ovaries from God (or Fate) for Catherine, being forced to witness each of her dumbass sons die one by one, ineptly childless, being powerless to stop that Protestant peasant boar from Navarre coming ever closer to the throne.
At least, the direct Capetians tried to father sons; Louis X had a boy with Clemencia of Hungary, who was pregnant when he died, but the baby boy died within days after his baptism; Philippe V had a son, Louis-Philippe, which died in infancy during his reign; Charles IV married twice more after Blanche de Bourgogne had cuckolded him in the Tour de Nesle affair, but begot daughters - his Queen was 8-months pregnant when he died.
Philippe de Valois was a very close cousin, a baron of his own right, as Catholic as the rest of the bunch, and thus supported by almost all the Barons (and even received hommage from Edward III as Duke of Aquitaine). Henri de Navarre... well wasn't any of those.
Lots of them, Mélenchon almost made it to the second round. :lol:
I did not mean Henri IV but V.
Wise strategy. Erode her voting base.
I thought she was trying to make a Jacques Cousteau impersonation
corrected that for you.
though her chances in '22 may indeed be much better. Not that the French are in need of more far-leftist economic idiocy.
Commentators say Maquereau but I am not convinced. Of course, Marine was aggressive but I can't say she won too.
PS: Putin had other puppets. Arguably, Marine is puppet n°1. ;)
Check the other meaning of maquereau in French. Pronounced macro too. :frog:
More Macron for you (CdM go away please you won't like it):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxh07tT52ys (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxh07tT52ys)
Do you really believe she's a Russian puppet? I mean sure her election would align with Russia's long term goals, but a direct agent? I doubt they have as much dirt on her as they do on Trump which they apparently can manipulate at will. But even then... Macron comes from the Rothschild' stable - you can't be more enthralled to the globalist agenda of destroying nation states so that the global elite can rule without any opposition than that.
Give me a proto-fascist (not that I believe Marine is - even though some of her supporters may be) over a cyber feudal lord any day of the week!
G.
Any financial and/or trade agreement that supersedes the authority of elected and (technically) accountable officials is suspect. Any instance where the sovereign authority of a parliament is overridden by a trade treaty is suspect.
There are interests that wishes to free themselves from any form of accountability... and of course there are those maggots who gravitate around such interests, accountants, investment bankers, lawyers, who all salivate at the thought of profiteering from such long standing schemes... Macron is their candidate since, once elected, he will use the powers of his office the suborn the republic to said interests...
No indeed - give me Marine any day before surrendering to these ghouls!
G
Are there any particular countries you had in mind that don't require parliamentary approval of trade treaties?
It's that fucking important.
I can post a video of me in a bathrobe ranting an endorsement of Le Pen. Or I can be naked.
Perfect. Let us know when it's ready.
Oh I'm not disputing that. It's just hilarious to think that he, or you apparently, think it will any weight come Sunday. Might even backfire.
Reminds me of those Guardian readers writing to the rednecks of Ohio to vote for Kerry.
Stay in your lane boys. Don't he have a speech to prepare for wall st anyways?
Oh, I forgot, Macron comes from big finance too. Keep dancing to the tune, folks. Wouldn't want to see the strings making the puppet dance.
Gosh international capital controlling us all like puppets? Yeah let's go back to that rhetoric. It already got us Trump and worked so well in the 1930s.
Hurts coz it's true. Greed will kill us all in the end.
No question Macron comes from the Rotschild stable. This is the guy who claims there is no French culture,
He also compares a police operation against Jihadis in the mediterranean with crimes against humanity. No mention of the historical context (Charles X, Algiers Dey etc.) and that the subsequent colonisation and decolonization were the real problem, though far from "crimes against humanity".
He is Hollande 2.0. Gauche caviar/Champagne left at its worst, under a thin apolitical guise. Think of him as the perfect Martinus Left.
La peste et le choléra, Macron 2017 = Marine 2022 are perfectly plausible.
I guess you can figure what will be my vote now. :)
However, Russian financing of the FN, in the past at the very least, is well documented. French political parties are financed by the State depending on votes and up to a limit, but recently they run into problems, not just the FN, so money has been harder to fin.
http://www.atlantico.fr/decryptage/marine-pen-confrontee-grave-crise-tresorerie-qui-pourrait-compromettre-campagne-nicholas-vinocur-2834358.html (http://www.atlantico.fr/decryptage/marine-pen-confrontee-grave-crise-tresorerie-qui-pourrait-compromettre-campagne-nicholas-vinocur-2834358.html)
How a a country with 20 % muslims (real figures are hard to obtain as in France), imams paid by the State, be a model for European nationalists/far-righters is beyond me. They don't share nowadays the islamophilia of Hitler (read his sadness about the Battle of Poitiers/Tours) or Himmler anymore.
It does not make sense, but money talks or rather people sell out.
Once the FN was associated with Svoboda, the populist/far right Ukrainian party, which took part in the Maidan protests. Guess what, after the Crimea affair, the FN reproduced the same Kremlin rhetoric and Svoboda denounced the partnership they had.
Having a KGB dude playing both the far right and far left in the West is not exactly new.
Of course, Mélenchon is also quite pro-Putin, with an exclusive anti-Baltic streak which does not seem to trouble PC crusaders, Lithuanian apartheid regime against Russians, SS Lithuanian division proof Lithuania's nazi-leanings during the war etc.; Asselineau is even more anti-EU and anti-NATO than Marine, with a conspiracy-minded twist ; Dupont-Aignan is more or less on the same line regarding Russia, but not as anti-EU as her. Plus some usual useful idiots on the left, two trotskyites, more anti-NATO, pacifists than really pro-Putin.
Really? The Rothschild global banking conspiracy is really still considered au courant in your circles?
Right, on the one hand you have a pack of crypto-fascists in the pocket of a foreign dictator.
On the other hand you have a guy who said some nice things about Muslims.
So . . . it's team Swastika FTW!
Better Hitler than Blum right?
:lol:
This is not going to work. Duque has been a crypto frontiste for years, complete with the mandatory ritual denunciations of "political correctness".
He says nice things about islamists too (on and off record), but despises the proles, who are drunkards, smokers, lazy, illiterate (in the case of the ladies) if they don't find a job. So pick your poison.
I won't, so I'll wait for the legislative elections to have a proper choice (3rd round of Presidential elections). It's not the US elections, remember.
Get the proper slogan first, it's "plutôt Hitler que le front Populaire". It has to rhyme to be a good slogan in French, before even considering the message. Macron is very far from the Front Populaire policies, or Blum for that matter, and Marine is no Hitler sorry. Her Dad was in the OAS, is a extreme-right troll, not really interested in power yet she gets lots of votes from North African-born French Jews (pied-noirs) and from these North Africans who served in the French Army during the Algerian war , so the reality is more complex.
Speaking of the FN, it would not have reached the heights it has now, if not for François Mitterrand and the PS government
http://reve86.org/le-fn-et-francois-mitterrand/ (http://reve86.org/le-fn-et-francois-mitterrand/)
Left-wing link
A strong FN helps the PS, old or new (Macron). Of course, it has to be done covertly and expertly, or the maneuver backfires as in 2002.
So reductio ad hitlerem is not enough nor relevant for describing Marine. The old "anti-fascism" card is theatre, as said by Jospin. A nice Mitterrand tactic.
Marine an angry populist? Sure! Her Euro policy is not exactly convincing, nor coherent. Less so lately, thanks to the agreement with Dupont-Aigan, himself a euroskeptic.
As for Blum, he did not oppose the Munich conference, and the 40h week should have excluded for the time being war industries (the only bad effect). His non-intervention policy in Spain, can't be really blamed only on him, but did not help of course. He did not oppose the remilitarisation of the Rhineland too earlier.
Lots, if not most in the left and right were pacifist. Besides, even the notorious anti-semite Maurras was anti-German for a while, and he supported Pétain later on.
Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!
Not during the first round no...
The assessment is not based on your potential vote in this one election, but rather your record of statements over the last several years.
Yep, interim government.
All right.
Not during the second round too.
Well, assessments or rather opinions as shown in this thread are like arseholes, everybody has got one.
You have your views on the subject. I have mine. Is opposing the far right make you a PC crusader now? Though granted just throwing around that bullshit term in such a critical moment for the entire Western World is probably damning enough for you.
There are much better ways of opposing the far right than voting for Macron and his clique. Le Pen won't be elected. If she were, she would not get a majority given the majority voting system, very unfriendly to smaller parties. Mind you, it could happen to Macron too, hopefully yes IMO.
Her father is a raving anti-Semite. She has a much more slick media operation but you don't have to dig very far in that party organization to hit scum.
Getting votes from Algerian Jews says a lot about the self-delusion of that community but not much about the character of the FN.
Recall back in the early 30s and even later there were plenty of people in the West willing to defend Hitler and Mussolini as misunderstood nationalists.
Bottom line is that you and grallon have been whipping Macron for pages because of what you imagine he represents, where he worked, his formation, his position in society, his "multiculturalist stance" his "stable" - all of which really amount to nothing except this - you don't like the cut of his jib. What we're not hearing is what policy he has that is so terrible that France should opt for FN.
Why shouldn't Algerian Jews fear Muslims more than the FN? Where's most of the violence and harassment coming from?
That's a false dichotomy if there ever was one.
FN n°2, Phillipot, is a former Chevènement supporter, homosexual (Grallon connection?), n°3 is Alliot, quarter Jew. I really don't think Le Pen approved. The classic extreme-right types like Lesquen, Radio Courtoisie or Rivarol newspaper types don't like it, to say the least.
Well, Algerians don't see them as Algerians, nor do they see themselves as Algerians. Français de confession israélite. Case in point: Zemmour, quite the trublion.
Le Pen father anti-semitism is something he shares with islamists or North African youths, the ones the PC left likes, but at a distance, i.e in a banlieue. Le Pen for such a radical he is does not kill Jews, unlike radical North African youths à la Mohamed Merah. Le Pen father trolls are best ignored, unfortunately this does not work for islamists, specially the violent variety.
I am drifting a bit here, but the Crémieux décret, granting French citizenship to Jews in Algeria, seems to be a curse in disguise regarding the relations betweens Jews and North Africans in France, rather than the Israeli-Arab conflict, as commonly suggested.
Go back to the '30s again? Why not Salazar and Metaxas? Or Dolfuss if you really need an Austrian? Authoritarian tendencies, but not fascist. Her program is close to Mélenchon's, economy-wise.
I didn't say opt for FN. Wait for the Legislative elections and reign Macron in. Marine won't get elected.
I know who Macron is, a living caricature of a classist provincial bourgeois that makes Le Pen feel at home among workers. Quite a feat. Marine is a lawyer
I know what he has done. At best, nothing much. His free-market reforms have had at best a small positive impact: Macron coaches or easier Sunday opening for stores in the big cities. Small changes.
For the El-Khomri labour flexibilisation reform law (Macron was one of the minds behind it) which created extreme polarisation, the effect is yet to be seen. Lots of changes were retracted after wide opposition.
Small results and wide discontent.
The only way he is going to get some reform-minded legislation, in a free-market/classic liberal way, is by having a massive Identity politics diversion to keep the people busy, à la Mitterrand in '83. Expect no immigration reform, where reforms are badly needed. In the old times, till the '80s, the communists (cf. Marchais) were even against all immigration yet they were spared the anti-fascist theatre.
Among other problems, he never ran for office before, so his political experience is quite new. Of course, he can say he is no career politician and this helped him in the campaign but the pro-Macron media barrage won't last forever. When problems hit harder and they will hit, the lack of coherent majority, experience or simply character will hit harshly.
I suppose he can pass some legislation during the "summer honey moon" if some kind of coalition is set up by having the PS and some centrists behind him. Beyond that...
He has potential for lots of worse, by pandering to his heterogeneous base with all kinds of communautarisme-friendly measures. At the very least, he can start his mandate by a cohabitation, an unequaled feat, not even Chirac achieved it. Die Große Koalition is not exactly popular in France, as you probably know.
So what do we get? 5 lost years, à la Hollande, with a media darling instead, opening the way for you know whom: Marine.
That's supposed to be a defense?
Again - is that supposed to be a defense?
That says sad things about the state of politics in France, but not really about Macron
So now we've compared the FN program to 3 1930s era soft fascist dictators, a hard left splitter from the PS, and the old PCF. Can I assume that is not meant as praise?
Different people are different and thus the cause of everything that is wrong. It's been the natural social state since forever, tolerance is relatively new and not that long lived. When things go well it's easier, but things get tough people need someone to blame.
Not everyone, but that's been Duque's POV for a while.
I'm sure Valmy will mellow with age.
Do you keep a file on everyone? :P
Antifas are worse than actual fascists.
I don't know what this means. In any case my opposition to Le Pen has nothing to do with buzz words like 'fascist' but on basically everything she claims to stand for. She has a radical left wing economic agenda. Does that not bother you? You seem weirdly supportive of her, I know you are going full Cold War Democrat and all.
Equating opposition to idiocy like that as some kind of theatre is nonsense.
What is radically left wing about her economic agenda?
All I do is state my political opinions on an obscure internet message board. I am not sure how much more mellow I can get.
Edit: Well I guess I could just go full Mono but, you know, without the crime.
Well all I am asking for is people vote against them.
Calm down, Saint-Just, don't go Fouquier-Tinville on me, that would be la double peine.
It's a Jospin quote. I am sure you remember him. PS prime minister of Chirac. A decent guy.
French only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niC9Bgyt7PA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niC9Bgyt7PA)
0'07"
Tout anti-fascisme n'était que du théâtre.
PS: he mentions clearly Le Pen father
More centralized state planning?
Awww what a nice thing to say :P
Fair enough. I just do not want the numerous reasons the FN is unacceptable to get construed as some sort of hysteria.
Basically. Populist state intervention. Heck Duque described it as not far off from Mélenchon.
No, a question. Avoid unfounded Reductio ad hitlerem next time. This is not the '30s anymore.
Well, you claim Marine is a neo-nazi cf. "team Swastika ", your words. Is he team Swastika too?
Criticism of Marine, or Mélenchon for that matter, has to be a bit more thought out.
We can agree on the first part, but it is really about Macron. He was a minister in a Hollande government, led by the party still operating on Mitterand's principles.
Salazar and Metaxas was tongue in cheek for the Reductio ad hitlerem cliché. They are really like minor league "fascism", since they lack the totalitarian and expansionist aspect, so even calling them fascism is debatable and does not help in understanding the deep nature of the respective regimes.
Marchais, as far as commies go, was perfectly acceptable. Old PCF is not true since Marchais de-stalinised the party. Unlike, say the Portuguese Communist Party. ;)
City communism, French-style, with class-conscious proletariat sure beats ethnic/islamist enclaves. Except for Mitterrand and the PS which needed a majority by neutering without killing the PCF. Of course, it's the past, but so are the Glorious Thirties and their favorable context for immigration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG2BA9SxClM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG2BA9SxClM) Marchais "halt all immigration legal and illegal", immigration and its problems, fake "cultural" centres
dates from 1980-81.
Old PCF means in France, the likes of Thorez and Duclos. You probably know the former who deserted in 1939 to join Moscow, as per Molotov-Ribbentrop rules.
As for hard left splitter for Mélenchon, you are too kind. Hard left? he wishes so, former PS apparatchik, former Trot (reverse entrism?).
My point is, the Marine/contemporary FN phenomenon should be separated from the '30s, if you really want to understand and improve the current situation, instead of just empty posturing or as Jospin would say theatre. Otherwise, it's pointless to keep on discussing.
Four-year plans, à la Brezhnev, not coercitive though so really French dirigisme-style, the socialism that works, or used to. :P
Of course, this would only work in a more closed economy. Mélenchon and Le Pen agree on this point.
No, but I do note people's political opinions when they voice them.
It's a line of argument from the alt-right that Spicy is repeating as part of his "I'm just trolling you, lol" persona.
Ohh ohh, what are mine?
You're misanthropic left with warmonger tendencies.
But I do. :ph34r:
How delightfully threatening!
So, a neo-con. :lol:
WHAT'S MINE?
No, I really really dislike antifa types.
I would like to file a FOIA request.
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. I'm saying man is greedy and money talks. It's not a conspiracy to say that (almost) unbridled capitalism rules the globe, is it?
Corporations literally move mountains these days, much to the ecosystems' chagrin. I won't be voting for either of these clowns. Clocking out.
Did you really just compare Macron to Leon Blum? :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
I would. It is pretty heavily regulated. Of course that very regulation also leads to lots of conspiracy theories. All those unelected bureaucrats destroying our freedom and such.
Ecosystems? Has Macron come out for dismantling environmental regulations now? Of course not. How idiotic. How many ecosystems is your cop out going to save Zoupa?
This is bizarre.
No. He compared fools of the 1930s to fools of today.
When one of two candidates is a radical with a very dedicated group of supporters, every vote not cast on his/her opponent is a vote cast for him/her.
Please accept my advance congratulations in helping Le Pen destroy your country.
In your dreams.
Did you just go Bernie Bro on us?
Why not vote for him, and then give him a leftist Assemblée Nationale after?
Just came back from the most poorly organized voting booth EVAH. There are 100 000 French voters in Montreal, and ONE voting station. You can imagine the lines :glare:
So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
Yeah, gotta love talking to people who went all suicide jihadist with their vote during the election with write-ins or 3rdparties or skipped it altogether "because bothof them are equally bad." And yet, here we both are.
In elections like this, there is only one option: to do your duty as a citizen and human being by voting for the candidate most likely to prevent a real and existential threat from power.
Some other countries don't always see the big picture like that.
Polls only open for one day? No mail in ballots?
Sounds like an endorsement of Le Pen.
You got the cock holster you wanted, derrussianfucker.
Bite molle. <_<
G.
Zero calories right-wing flavoured troll.
:lol:
Zero calorie. I like that.
Elitist Swedish conservative affecting perpetual aristocratic disdain.
:hug:
Je n'ai jamais partagé ton adoration pour les fachos. Désolé.
:hug:
I am. You did the right thing. Hopefully next time you can vote for a candidate more to your liking.
Le FN ne passera pas
I know they day will come will I will have to vote for somebody more leftwing than I would like. Looking at you Bernie and your allies. But, you know, hold the line.
At least ask him to wear a condom first.
Fanatically center left.
I think I'll stick with "crypto-Christian fundamentalist" unless you can come up with something better.
Where has Neil been anyway? :hmm:
ty
How come?
Germany.
:frog:
Wether or not it's a Pyrrhic will depend on the elections for parliament and if Macron actually achieves anything. Remember: people thought Hollande would change stuff too, same for Sarko.
But at least it's a 5 years of Putin being baguette-blocked.
:lol:
Anyway, hooray for the Republic.
Most people voted against Sarko, rather than for Hollande. DSK also managed to eliminate himself from the race with his trouble with his erotomania.
How does change factor in? Seems to me Macron ran on pretty much a status quo platform.
Indeed, I don't think anyone was suggesting that Macron would change stuff. :huh:
You'd think he'd love them. I'm fairly convinced they are funded by right-wingers to make the left look bad.
I'll be saying the same if France finally falls to Le Pen-like barbarism.
He's not there to solve any problems, he's been propped up to insure France becomes even weaker, even more incapable of resisting the globalist's agenda. He's their creature, their whore, bought and paid for.
As a matter of fact, in the wake of this election, I've been reading more and more comments coming from the usual leftist scumbags, to the effect that democracy should be limited to the 'right kind of people', i.e those who think like them, those who aren't 'deplorable'. Is it any wonder there is so much rage boiling under the surface?
G.
Jews.
Sarcasm aside, there are legitimate political grievances that can be directed against the so-called "winners" of globalization, a mobile elite of managers who, at the lower end, only see the wonderful cultural benefits of travel (and are often expats themselves) and can't possibly understand why the unwashed masses are so racists, and, at the upper end, actively lobby to decrease regulations to make capital increasingly mobile, and their own fortunes safe from tax, redistribution, or even, any hiccups of circumstances.
Very low bar there...
I think it is all about who gets what. The winners and losers of globalisation. The people who are left behind will always invent theories to explain their situation, but none of these conspiracies really matter. I doubt they themselves even care about words. It is no use arguing with them, because the only thing they care about is that they are losing while other people are getting more. As long as that holds true, no amount of reasoning will work.
lol, says the globalization hive mind drone whore.
Were coal miners industrialists?
I don't see the connection.
Yep. We are the evil corrupt ones now. No extreme rightist or leftist was ever corrupt! Elect them everything will be fine. There are absolutely no data points in the past contradicting this.
We?
I think the more important distinction is how one gets his money than how he spends it.
Whatever. People roughly politically aligned with the post-Cold War liberal order.
Gotcha. So Timmy and Tamas are globalists because they work overseas? And I'm a globalist because I work for a British company in the US? And Billy Bob is a globalist because he assembles Mercedes in Kentucky?
My bet is that automation kills at least as many jobs as globalisation, if not more. But the thing is, it is really hard to argue against technological progress. There are no good reasons to stop others from using computers, tablets, the internet, and robots etc. But globalisation can be interpreted as a policy choice, a conspiracy theory that benefits the few at the expense of the many. It is both an effective target, and a useful tool of blackmail. As in, if the haves aren't willing to share more of their wealth, the have-nots will kill globalisation via the electoral process. That's one of the few ways that the have-nots can make lives worse for the haves, and that's the lever they'll push.
That's what I think of every time I hear globalist.
Reddit The_Donald is also melting down.
Pics or it didn't happen.
I'm a big proponent of free trade but I do not consider myself a globalist. To me, globalism implies things like unlimited immigration and world governance-- not just free trade.
Yet World Governance has weakened since 'globalization' has taken place though hasn't it? The United Nations has only gotten weaker and more irrelevant in the past few decades. As far as unlimited immigration globalization encourages economic development and lower birth rates abroad so actually reduces the pressure for immigration as indeed we are seeing dramatically in Mexico.
Globalization is, in my mind, an economic phenomenon. Sure some political things are of course required for free trade to work, of course, but those are negotiated between nations not through the UN or whatever.
You may be onto something:
Highest number ever of blank and null votes: 12% of cast votes. Highest abstention for a run-off: 25,3%
:whistle:
http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2017/05/07/presidentielle-un-record-de-bulletins-blancs-et-nuls_5123805_4355770.html (http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2017/05/07/presidentielle-un-record-de-bulletins-blancs-et-nuls_5123805_4355770.html)
Why not? Louis Aragon, a great French poet, wrote a poem glorifying the G.P.U. (written in French Guépéou).
I'd rather have indicative or rather incitative four-year plans (if five is too stalinist)!
https://www.marxists.org/francais/malaquais/works/1947/02/patriote.htm
I don't believe that was his best poem but to each his own.
Maybe "L'avenir de l'homme est la femme" in Le Fou d'Elsa. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Fou_d%27Elsa (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Fou_d%27Elsa)
However, he did not live by that verse or poem by the end of his life. :P
En marche !
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/colin-johnson-refund_uk_59105ff3e4b0104c73505cf5?uwf
Who stays logged on to betting sites?
Sounds like a welsher to me.
Sure, but I thought we were talking about globalism.
Agree that globalization and globalism should be considered different things, but they are pretty much used interchangeably except by the far right, where globalism is a tinfoil-hat theory about plots to create a world government. On the far left, the tinfoil-hat theory is about "multinationals" taking control of the world, which I'd argue should be considered another "globalism" belief.
Globalism should properly be the belief that there are issues best dealt with on a global basis, but people seem to use globalization for that.
Good man.
Being part of a democracy that has FPTP or two-person run-offs means learning to hold one's nose while pulling the lever.
The difference between the lesser and worse of 2 evils can be as great as the difference between good and evil
Reminds me of the popular bumper sticker in the Edwards vs. Duke election, where the notoriously corrupt Edwards was up against the neo-Nazi David Duke:
"Vote For the Crook. It's Important."
:lol:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Edwards#Second_comeback:_Edwards_vs._Duke.2C_1991
HELP! GEORGE SOROS IS COMING TO GET MY GUNS!!!
Oh right. Well barring the biggest scandal since our President got a blowjob in the White House I think the Tories are going to win big.
You really need to stop paying so much attention to day to day currency trading.
The euro was trading high these months without not that much reason for it, it will slide slowly unless there's a change in the fundamentals. Whatever effect Macron might have had was already priced in since it's been clear for a while that he was carrying this one.
Europe was also posting pretty solid growth numbers, confirming even more that the euro zone crisis is over.
Macron also means hard Brexit.
And those two were just short term reactions, while we await the exact consequences of those votes, which will still take some time.
Fact is that the ECB is still at 0%, while the Fed is raising rates. Heck, if the US Congress passes a border adjustment tax as part of Trump's tax reform, the dollar will appreciate significantly.
The state of world English has gotten so bad that I frankly don't think it can go back.
Using "grow" as a transitive verb. (Growing the economy is like learning your son to read.)
Gender to refer to people rather than words.
Hell, when I was a kid, people didn't pronounce the "t" in often.
Crazy, right? :P
I blame that Dishwalla song.
Vive la France! Vive la République! :frog:
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-04/24/12/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-02/sub-buzz-29144-1493051733-11.jpg)
I don't know that this kind of thinking works anymore.
See: Support for Russia, US.
This is true, but lacks context. It's the lowest turnout ever.
Ok. What is the context then? If you were in favor of Macron then you would show up to vote for him. If you hated Macron you would show up to vote against him. If you don't show up at all what are you voting for?
Why not just do it on the same day? Especially with two rounds for each, no wonder voters get tired of it.
Macron's party, media darling, underdog? :lmfao: I know he presented himself as revolutionary, with his own kind of populism (not right wing nor left wing) but come on.
Even very bourgeois areas in West Paris are pro-Macron, as if the conservatives there were some kind of leftists. :D
maybe, maybe not. Much will depend on what he does and how he does it. How many general strikes of the teachers (to name one) is will to live with?
That's stupid. If you do not support Macron, not voting is almost as good as vote for him.
If he was only elected because of the FN who was the real winner? Is three elections where you get the most votes not enough? Do you want four or five to determine the true winner? Call me old fashioned but I thought getting the most votes meant you were elected because you had the most support.
Well to be fair if you live in France you will have to be willing to live with several. :P
It has nothing to do with being old fashioned, and everything to do with diverging conception of voting, its significance, and the most appropriate mechanic required to obtain what is considered a legitimate democratic outcome. Case in point: American electoral college.
Yes. But in two of those elections all the other parties were included and Macron's party got the most votes. That seems like it had more to do than just the FN.
Teachers should be pleased with him for now since he has promised to reverse a stupid reform i.e anti humanities (Latin and Ancient Greek) and anti foreign languages (German and bilingual classes) since those are elitist. There is little political capital to spend to keep this promise, and it will benefit his popularity. Of course, this only one of many...
For what purpose? Security?
Fight against terrorism to be precise, but I believe you had understood anyways.
New? Hasn't it been kinda like that for you lot since we left?
You mean since we bankrupted you lot and kicked you out? :P
The UK actually was our biggest ally in the EU, diplomats are frantically trying to make new friends.
But given the UK and US silliness I don't mind the current setup.
Record low-turnout again, FN has 8 députés ( a record given the election mode). PS share divided by 10 (!),
It's a great victory, but less than expected after the first round.
Majority is 289 seats, LREM (Macron's movement) got by itself 308 plus its official Modem (Centre) allies 42.
Maybe Mr. Le Maire will also become the French Psychopomp or perhaps he will become the father to transsexuals.
I hope there is room for a Charon too, though I fear some politicians might see it as a pretext for a new tax.
Father AND Mother of transsexuals ;) All hail Hermaphrodite, son of Hermes and Aphrodite! :D I believe M. Le Maire has children though. :hmm:
Maybe "Jupiterian" in the sense of having sex with many, many mortal women? :hmm:
But only if he cosplays as an animal... is Macron a fury?
Thus do damaging - but hilarious - rumors start.
Best hope Trump isn't a lurker here ... :D
In the honeymoon phase of his presidency, it's possible. He made a couple of gaffes because he seems to like jokes à la Hollande but so far no political consequences.
Question: Who do you vote for?
Option 1: 
votes: 2
votes: 2
Option 2: 
votes: 3
votes: 3
Option 3: 
votes: 11
votes: 11
Option 5: 
votes: 13
votes: 13
Title: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on April 23, 2017, 04:08:31 AM
Post by: Zanza on April 23, 2017, 04:08:31 AM
Today is the first round of the French presidential election. :frog:
No candidate will win 50%, so there will be a run-off between the two top candidates in two weeks. The top four candidates are within the margin of error for polls.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election%2C_2017.png)
EDIT: Hmm, Mélenchon's photo doesn't show:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Meeting_M%C3%A9lenchon_Toulouse_-_2017-04-16_-_Jean-Luc_M%C3%A9lenchon_-_41_%28cropped_2%29.jpg/112px-Meeting_M%C3%A9lenchon_Toulouse_-_2017-04-16_-_Jean-Luc_M%C3%A9lenchon_-_41_%28cropped_2%29.jpg)
No candidate will win 50%, so there will be a run-off between the two top candidates in two weeks. The top four candidates are within the margin of error for polls.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election%2C_2017.png)
EDIT: Hmm, Mélenchon's photo doesn't show:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Meeting_M%C3%A9lenchon_Toulouse_-_2017-04-16_-_Jean-Luc_M%C3%A9lenchon_-_41_%28cropped_2%29.jpg/112px-Meeting_M%C3%A9lenchon_Toulouse_-_2017-04-16_-_Jean-Luc_M%C3%A9lenchon_-_41_%28cropped_2%29.jpg)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Monoriu on April 23, 2017, 04:23:53 AM
Post by: Monoriu on April 23, 2017, 04:23:53 AM
Macron. My only interest is to avoid a Le Pen presidency, which will probably spell the end of the EU and the Euro. Macron represents the best chance to stop her.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Brain on April 23, 2017, 04:30:52 AM
Post by: The Brain on April 23, 2017, 04:30:52 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 23, 2017, 04:23:53 AM
Macron. My only interest is to avoid a Le Pen presidency, which will probably spell the end of the EU and the Euro. Macron represents the best chance to stop her.
Thank you, Mr. Glass Ceiling.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 23, 2017, 04:40:13 AM
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 23, 2017, 04:40:13 AM
It would be Macron, but he seems to be the establishment candidate to me. Given that the majority of the electorate seem to be thoroughly pissed off with the establishment his election might just lead to even greater problems in 5 years time :hmm:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 23, 2017, 06:07:39 AM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 23, 2017, 06:07:39 AM
if it becomes Macron or Le Pen: one has to wonder how they'll bring about anything from their program.
Iirc, the president still needs parliament for a lot of things:
No one will work with Le Pen (and she -at the moment, parliamentary elections are still a few weeks away-) has barely any MPs.
Macron doesn't even have an established party and would have to find support elsewhere. Iirc he got a significant amount of support from the left but is more of the same really what the French need?
Fillon: recent scandals didn't improve his chances
Melenchon: a communist with a program that is so left-wing it is insane. Equally against the EU too iirc. Similar to Le Pen but with more immigrants instead of less.
France is, I think, fucked. Again.
Iirc, the president still needs parliament for a lot of things:
No one will work with Le Pen (and she -at the moment, parliamentary elections are still a few weeks away-) has barely any MPs.
Macron doesn't even have an established party and would have to find support elsewhere. Iirc he got a significant amount of support from the left but is more of the same really what the French need?
Fillon: recent scandals didn't improve his chances
Melenchon: a communist with a program that is so left-wing it is insane. Equally against the EU too iirc. Similar to Le Pen but with more immigrants instead of less.
France is, I think, fucked. Again.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 23, 2017, 07:19:30 AM
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 23, 2017, 07:19:30 AM
Good grief, France.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 23, 2017, 09:23:04 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 23, 2017, 09:23:04 AM
Zanza forgot or omitted the small candidates. :( :frog:
PS: Crazy Ivan did not mention the one thing that unites Le Pen and Mélenchon: their love of Putin. :D
PS: Crazy Ivan did not mention the one thing that unites Le Pen and Mélenchon: their love of Putin. :D
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 23, 2017, 09:27:21 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 23, 2017, 09:27:21 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 23, 2017, 04:40:13 AM
It would be Macron, but he seems to be the establishment candidate to me. Given that the majority of the electorate seem to be thoroughly pissed off with the establishment his election might just lead to even greater problems in 5 years time :hmm:
Macron with his pro mass immigration stance could help Marine in 2022. He went to Berlin to congratulate Merkel for her disastrous immigration policy.
OTOH, even having a majority will be difficult since since he never ran for office and has no real party behind him unless the PS collapses totally, which could happen.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 23, 2017, 09:35:12 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 23, 2017, 09:35:12 AM
Cheminade is the Lyndon LaRouche candidate, conspiracy-minded but pro Moon and Mars colonisation despite mentioning Star Wars technology as old and some character called "arry Skywalker, as seen on Jon Oliver's show. Video games are also to blame for terrorism, not islamism. He ran for the first time in 1995, and was already seen as a joke.
Asselineau is anti-NATO and anti-EU, moreso than both Le Pen and Mélenchon. Conspiracy-minded. Otherwise, very PC. ;)
Lassalle is the shepherd candidate, hinterland France vibe, a bit difficult to understand, but sympathetic.
Dupont-Aignan is the only non-crazy sovereignist candidate but too pro-Putin for my taste.
Poutou is the only worker/prole in the race, a trade union leader, but he is a PC trotskyite, finding excuses for terrorists "if cops were not armed maybe they would not have been shot".
Arthaud is the other trotskyite, the only one claiming to be a communist, but without charisma. An economics teacher. :D
Jadot, mentioned in the graph, does not participate.
Asselineau is anti-NATO and anti-EU, moreso than both Le Pen and Mélenchon. Conspiracy-minded. Otherwise, very PC. ;)
Lassalle is the shepherd candidate, hinterland France vibe, a bit difficult to understand, but sympathetic.
Dupont-Aignan is the only non-crazy sovereignist candidate but too pro-Putin for my taste.
Poutou is the only worker/prole in the race, a trade union leader, but he is a PC trotskyite, finding excuses for terrorists "if cops were not armed maybe they would not have been shot".
Arthaud is the other trotskyite, the only one claiming to be a communist, but without charisma. An economics teacher. :D
Jadot, mentioned in the graph, does not participate.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 09:56:58 AM
Post by: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 09:56:58 AM
Hopefully Marine wins otherwise France will continue its slow descent into disintegration.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2017, 10:40:17 AM
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2017, 10:40:17 AM
Quote from: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 09:56:58 AMLa France d'abord!
Hopefully Marine wins otherwise France will continue its slow descent into disintegration.
Hmm, where have I heard something similar? I wonder how it worked for them...
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ancient Demon on April 23, 2017, 11:04:27 AM
Post by: Ancient Demon on April 23, 2017, 11:04:27 AM
I kind of prefer Filion, scandal ridden as he may be. Macron will probably win though.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on April 23, 2017, 11:29:12 AM
Post by: Josquius on April 23, 2017, 11:29:12 AM
I've no idea of the policies of the two moderates. But either of them over Le Pen. The far left guy also seems not too great with his euroskepticism
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Camerus on April 23, 2017, 11:30:04 AM
Post by: Camerus on April 23, 2017, 11:30:04 AM
Fillon.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 12:21:01 PM
Post by: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2017, 10:40:17 AM
Hmm, where have I heard something similar? I wonder how it worked for them...
Please no references to nazism - that's ridiculous.
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Razgovory on April 23, 2017, 01:06:31 PM
Post by: Razgovory on April 23, 2017, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 12:21:01 PMQuote from: viper37 on April 23, 2017, 10:40:17 AM
Hmm, where have I heard something similar? I wonder how it worked for them...
Please no references to nazism - that's ridiculous.
G.
Says the guy with the statue symbolizing the Nazi party in his avatar.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 23, 2017, 01:08:41 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 23, 2017, 01:08:41 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 23, 2017, 09:23:04 AM
PS: Crazy Ivan did not mention the one thing that unites Le Pen and Mélenchon: their love of Putin. :D
I wagered the forum either already knew or could infer their Putin-sucking-attitude. anti-eu usually equals sucking Putin's cock.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on April 23, 2017, 01:21:18 PM
Post by: Zanza on April 23, 2017, 01:21:18 PM
So it will be Macron vs Le Pen in the second round.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Maladict on April 23, 2017, 01:28:14 PM
Post by: Maladict on April 23, 2017, 01:28:14 PM
Quote from: Zanza on April 23, 2017, 01:21:18 PM
So it will be Macron vs Le Pen in the second round.
That should be good for Macron. But then again, Trump was supposed to be the best candidate for Clinton.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ancient Demon on April 23, 2017, 01:33:08 PM
Post by: Ancient Demon on April 23, 2017, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Zanza on April 23, 2017, 01:21:18 PM
So it will be Macron vs Le Pen in the second round.
Some people were predicting Melenchon vs Le Pen. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
Post by: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
And now the predictable roundabout from every defeated party to call for a Republican Front to vote against Le Pen, just like in 2002.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Habbaku on April 23, 2017, 01:36:22 PM
Post by: Habbaku on April 23, 2017, 01:36:22 PM
Quote from: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
And now the predictable roundabout from every defeated party to call for a Republican Front to vote against Le Pen, just like in 2002.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:40:38 PM
Post by: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:40:38 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 23, 2017, 01:36:22 PMQuote from: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
And now the predictable roundabout from every defeated party to call for a Republican Front to vote against Le Pen, just like in 2002.
:yeah:
At least Chirac was immensely experienced - and Jean-Marie Le Pen was loathsome.
Little Manu is not even 40 years old, has not even been elected once, is as much part of the 'system' as the others, and is 'Mouvement EM' has not even a MNA. And Marine is not her father, she has successfully broadened her support to make FN 'palatable'.
What I am afraid is that all these calls to vote Macron on the 2nd Turn will backfire - because they have all seen it before, and because those who call for it are all, themselves, from the Establishment. This election puts in the light how much fed up the electors are with all this.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: garbon on April 23, 2017, 01:41:19 PM
Post by: garbon on April 23, 2017, 01:41:19 PM
Quote from: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:40:38 PMQuote from: Habbaku on April 23, 2017, 01:36:22 PMQuote from: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
And now the predictable roundabout from every defeated party to call for a Republican Front to vote against Le Pen, just like in 2002.
:yeah:
At least Chirac was immensely experienced - and Jean-Marie Le Pen was loathsome.
Little Manu is not even 40 years old, has not even been elected once, is as much part of the 'system' as the others, and is 'Mouvement EM' has not even a MNA. And Marine is not her father, she has successfully broadened her support to make FN 'palatable'.
Young people are the worst!
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:42:54 PM
Post by: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:42:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2017, 01:41:19 PM
Young people are the worst!
At least EM is not you.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: garbon on April 23, 2017, 02:06:06 PM
Post by: garbon on April 23, 2017, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: Drakken on April 23, 2017, 01:42:54 PMQuote from: garbon on April 23, 2017, 01:41:19 PM
Young people are the worst!
At least EM is not you.
Ooh, look at this tough guy.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 23, 2017, 02:24:47 PM
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 23, 2017, 02:24:47 PM
It's a shame France won't actually elect Le Pen in the run off, she is the only chance France doesn't devolve into a Sheikdom. I don't pretend that her Presidency would be pleasant or enjoyable for many, but neither is cauterizing a wound, but it is sometimes necessary.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 03:32:37 PM
Post by: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 03:32:37 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 23, 2017, 02:24:47 PM
It's a shame France won't actually elect Le Pen in the run off, she is the only chance France doesn't devolve into a Sheikdom. I don't pretend that her Presidency would be pleasant or enjoyable for many, but neither is cauterizing a wound, but it is sometimes necessary.
I couldn't agree more. It appears a majority of French are fancying more terror attacks, more social dissolution, more economic regression... for fear of... what exactly?
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2017, 03:54:32 PM
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2017, 03:54:32 PM
Quote from: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 12:21:01 PMAmerica first wasn't a nazi rallying cry...Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2017, 10:40:17 AM
Hmm, where have I heard something similar? I wonder how it worked for them...
Please no references to nazism - that's ridiculous.
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: mongers on April 23, 2017, 04:13:09 PM
Post by: mongers on April 23, 2017, 04:13:09 PM
Does France need its own Tony Blair? :unsure:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 23, 2017, 04:29:10 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 23, 2017, 04:29:10 PM
Quote from: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 03:32:37 PM
I couldn't agree more. It appears a majority of French are fancying more terror attacks, more social dissolution, more economic regression... for fear of... what exactly?
For starters, demographic death spiral and the bankruptcy of the welfare state.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 04:43:05 PM
Post by: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 23, 2017, 04:29:10 PM
For starters, demographic death spiral and the bankruptcy of the welfare state.
The bankruptcy of the welfare state wouldn't be happening if the wealth created by globalization wasn't captured at its source by a rapacious transnational elite who has no allegiance to anything but its own wallet.
As for the demographic death spiral it could be alleviated through other means than immigration from third world shitholes whose populations are determined to drag the West down to the level of shithole-iness they're accustomed to.
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Solmyr on April 23, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
Post by: Solmyr on April 23, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
Quote from: Grallon on April 23, 2017, 03:32:37 PMQuote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 23, 2017, 02:24:47 PM
It's a shame France won't actually elect Le Pen in the run off, she is the only chance France doesn't devolve into a Sheikdom. I don't pretend that her Presidency would be pleasant or enjoyable for many, but neither is cauterizing a wound, but it is sometimes necessary.
I couldn't agree more. It appears a majority of French are fancying more terror attacks, more social dissolution, more economic regression... for fear of... what exactly?
Becoming a Putinist puppet state. You know, like America did.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: citizen k on April 23, 2017, 05:32:06 PM
Post by: citizen k on April 23, 2017, 05:32:06 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 23, 2017, 04:13:09 PM
Does France need its own Tony Blair? :unsure:
Are Blairists really popular now? He always seemed to be a globalist neoliberal and not a populist. :bowler:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: mongers on April 23, 2017, 05:36:10 PM
Post by: mongers on April 23, 2017, 05:36:10 PM
Quote from: citizen k on April 23, 2017, 05:32:06 PMQuote from: mongers on April 23, 2017, 04:13:09 PM
Does France need its own Tony Blair? :unsure:
Are Blairists really popular now? He always seemed to be a globalist neoliberal and not a populist. :bowler:
The later cloaked the former.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 23, 2017, 06:25:49 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 23, 2017, 06:25:49 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on April 23, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
Becoming a Putinist puppet state. You know, like America did.
Ain't that the truth. I wonder, though: how much of Trump's wink-wink endorsement of Le Pen is going to backfire with the not-so-wink-wink French disdain for America?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on April 23, 2017, 06:35:06 PM
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on April 23, 2017, 06:35:06 PM
Apropos of nothing, this is the current Bourbon claimant, Louis XX:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Louis_XX.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Louis_XX.jpg)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ed Anger on April 23, 2017, 06:37:36 PM
Post by: Ed Anger on April 23, 2017, 06:37:36 PM
I have no comment
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 23, 2017, 06:41:19 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 23, 2017, 06:41:19 PM
After about five bourbons, I'm sure you wouldn't.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 23, 2017, 06:56:24 PM
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 23, 2017, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 23, 2017, 06:41:19 PM
After about five bourbons, I'm sure you wouldn't.
Lol :lol:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on April 23, 2017, 10:51:44 PM
Post by: Zoupa on April 23, 2017, 10:51:44 PM
It'll be 60-62% Macron in two weeks.
We'll be fine, renowned Gallic experts Otto and Grallon notwithstanding. Bring youth unemployment down to around 15% and watch all of France's "problems with muslims" disappear.
It's not rocket science.
We'll be fine, renowned Gallic experts Otto and Grallon notwithstanding. Bring youth unemployment down to around 15% and watch all of France's "problems with muslims" disappear.
It's not rocket science.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 12:42:50 AM
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 12:42:50 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on April 23, 2017, 10:51:44 PM
It'll be 60-62% Macron in two weeks.
Quote from: Zoupa on November 05, 2016, 11:45:46 PM
4-5% for Clinton.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on April 24, 2017, 12:53:43 AM
Post by: Zoupa on April 24, 2017, 12:53:43 AM
Harsh toke, bubba, harsh toke.
I do believe I might have more insight into my countrymen than yours though.
I do believe I might have more insight into my countrymen than yours though.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 24, 2017, 01:11:03 AM
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 24, 2017, 01:11:03 AM
He will have a difficult task ahead of him. The vote was 30% for continuity and 70% for change. Of course he may be the Messiah, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Monoriu on April 24, 2017, 01:19:28 AM
Post by: Monoriu on April 24, 2017, 01:19:28 AM
I remember there was a time when another Le Pen unexpectedly entered the second stage of the presidential election, and there was general outrage. Now it is perfectly normal for a far right candidate to do so. If conditions don't change, I think it is only a matter of time before people decide to give the far right a chance.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Brain on April 24, 2017, 01:55:53 AM
Post by: The Brain on April 24, 2017, 01:55:53 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on April 23, 2017, 06:35:06 PM
Apropos of nothing, this is the current Bourbon claimant, Louis XX:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Louis_XX.jpg)
Does he actually claim the throne?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 02:33:45 AM
Post by: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 02:33:45 AM
I think their position has lately been more "hey guys, if you ever have second thoughts about this Republic thing, know that we're still around".
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Brain on April 24, 2017, 02:35:37 AM
Post by: The Brain on April 24, 2017, 02:35:37 AM
I find the tradition of ex-royalty on the continent ridiculous.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 02:41:46 AM
Post by: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 02:41:46 AM
I find even more ridiculous that there's pretenders to the title of pretender. This guy battles it out against the Orleans pretender, and I believe the Bonapartists are still a thing?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on April 24, 2017, 03:38:49 AM
Post by: Josquius on April 24, 2017, 03:38:49 AM
It's surprising that these ex royals all remain so rich. Plenty of noble families have fell into poverty though that I'm aware of none of the royals. Where is the money from?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Larch on April 24, 2017, 05:00:51 AM
Post by: The Larch on April 24, 2017, 05:00:51 AM
Quote from: Tyr on April 24, 2017, 03:38:49 AM
It's surprising that these ex royals all remain so rich. Plenty of noble families have fell into poverty though that I'm aware of none of the royals. Where is the money from?
It depends a lot on how they left the throne and if they retain their assets. And they tend to support each other a lot, over here the Spanish royal family has a number of hanger-on relatives from former royal houses (Greece and Bulgaria come to mind), and they use their contacts a lot to do business.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 05:05:23 AM
Post by: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 05:05:23 AM
The Bourbon fella's father married into the Franco family, too. That helps a lot.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 05:12:34 AM
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 05:12:34 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on April 24, 2017, 12:53:43 AM
Harsh toke, bubba, harsh toke.
I do believe I might have more insight into my countrymen than yours though.
You may have more insight, I have less faith.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 05:41:50 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 05:41:50 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 23, 2017, 04:13:09 PM
Does France need its own Tony Blair? :unsure:
Too late Mongers, France already has it. :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 05:43:47 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 05:43:47 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 24, 2017, 01:19:28 AM
I remember there was a time when another Le Pen unexpectedly entered the second stage of the presidential election, and there was general outrage. Now it is perfectly normal for a far right candidate to do so. If conditions don't change, I think it is only a matter of time before people decide to give the far right a chance.
For once, I agree with Mono. :o
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on April 24, 2017, 05:58:37 AM
Post by: Josquius on April 24, 2017, 05:58:37 AM
I've read up on macron and he actually seems quite good :hmm:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: mongers on April 24, 2017, 06:06:38 AM
Post by: mongers on April 24, 2017, 06:06:38 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 05:41:50 AMQuote from: mongers on April 23, 2017, 04:13:09 PM
Does France need its own Tony Blair? :unsure:
Too late Mongers, France already has it. :P
Enjoy your 'poodle war' at the heals of pres.Trump. :D
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 07:38:05 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 07:38:05 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 24, 2017, 06:06:38 AMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 05:41:50 AMQuote from: mongers on April 23, 2017, 04:13:09 PM
Does France need its own Tony Blair? :unsure:
Too late Mongers, France already has it. :P
Enjoy your 'poodle war' at the heals of pres.Trump. :D
Shut up Marine fan! :D
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 07:43:19 AM
Post by: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 07:43:19 AM
You can do it France, you too you can have your cool leader just like Justin.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 08:00:24 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 08:00:24 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 07:43:19 AM
You can do it France, you too you can have your cool leader just like Justin.
Merci pour ce moment !
:x
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 08:10:42 AM
Post by: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 08:10:42 AM
After Hollande? It will do good for France to have a leader that doesn't look like he just got caught coming back from the bordel all the time.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 08:32:17 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 08:32:17 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 08:10:42 AM
After Hollande? It will do good for France to have a leader that doesn't look like he just got caught coming back from the bordel all the time.
Having a gerontophile is such an improvement?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 08:38:07 AM
Post by: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 08:38:07 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:03:32 AM
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:03:32 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on April 23, 2017, 10:51:44 PM
It'll be 60-62% Macron in two weeks.
We'll be fine, renowned Gallic experts Otto and Grallon notwithstanding. Bring youth unemployment down to around 15% and watch all of France's "problems with muslims" disappear.
It's not rocket science.
I feel for you because I know you mean well but you just don't see it. I hope you don't have kids because they'll be the ones forced to wear burkas and/or getting their heads chopped off for religious crimes.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:05:14 AM
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:05:14 AM
Not even in the nations French Muslims immigrate from do they do those things Otto.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:05:52 AM
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:05:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:05:14 AM
Not even in the nations French Muslims immigrate from do they do those things Otto.
Yeah Algeria is known as a hot bed of liberalism.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:06:28 AM
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:06:28 AM
Just ask Herve Gordel.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 09:09:01 AM
Post by: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:05:52 AMQuote from: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:05:14 AM
Not even in the nations French Muslims immigrate from do they do those things Otto.
Yeah Algeria is known as a hot bed of liberalism.
:pinch:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Syt on April 24, 2017, 09:12:41 AM
Post by: Syt on April 24, 2017, 09:12:41 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:03:32 AM
I feel for you because I know you mean well but you just don't see it. I hope you don't have kids because they'll be the ones forced to wear burkas and/or getting their heads chopped off for religious crimes.
You're saying that a religious minority will take over the country against the will of the majority?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:13:11 AM
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:13:11 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:05:52 AMQuote from: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:05:14 AM
Not even in the nations French Muslims immigrate from do they do those things Otto.
Yeah Algeria is known as a hot bed of liberalism.
Algeria sucks but not even there are women required to wear the Burkha or get beheaded for religious crimes.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:13:40 AM
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:13:40 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 09:09:01 AMQuote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:05:52 AMQuote from: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 09:05:14 AM
Not even in the nations French Muslims immigrate from do they do those things Otto.
Yeah Algeria is known as a hot bed of liberalism.
:pinch:
Oh yeah he really got me there :lol:
Did I claim that? No. Goal post moving is not a winning argument.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 09:15:27 AM
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 09:15:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 09:09:01 AMQuote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:05:52 AM
Yeah Algeria is known as a hot bed of liberalism.
:pinch:
OOOH BURN
DUNE COON BOOM
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 11:45:52 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 11:45:52 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 08:38:07 AM
Yes.
I beg to differ.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: alfred russel on April 24, 2017, 11:57:45 AM
Post by: alfred russel on April 24, 2017, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 05:43:47 AMQuote from: Monoriu on April 24, 2017, 01:19:28 AM
I remember there was a time when another Le Pen unexpectedly entered the second stage of the presidential election, and there was general outrage. Now it is perfectly normal for a far right candidate to do so. If conditions don't change, I think it is only a matter of time before people decide to give the far right a chance.
For once, I agree with Mono. :o
I doubt it. This Le Pen isn't the same as the old Le Pen, and will still get crushed. If the far right needs 50% of votes plus one, they won't win elections in western european democracies anytime soon.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 12:19:36 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 12:19:36 PM
One more decent-sized terrorist attack between now and the election, and it'll be addition by subtraction. Sorta like a James Comey letter, but with more--comment dites-vous?--joie de vivre.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 12:20:39 PM
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 12:20:39 PM
Yeah I am not anointing Macron until the votes are counted.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on April 24, 2017, 12:26:15 PM
Post by: Jacob on April 24, 2017, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:03:32 AM
I feel for you because I know you mean well but you just don't see it. I hope you don't have kids because they'll be the ones forced to wear burkas and/or getting their heads chopped off for religious crimes.
Where are you getting your information on the state of France from?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 24, 2017, 12:59:05 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 24, 2017, 12:59:05 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 24, 2017, 09:12:41 AMQuote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:03:32 AM
I feel for you because I know you mean well but you just don't see it. I hope you don't have kids because they'll be the ones forced to wear burkas and/or getting their heads chopped off for religious crimes.
You're saying that a religious minority will take over the country against the will of the majority?
it has happened before.
----
that said: Macron will likely end up being more of the same due to the places where his support has to come from. The economic reform France desperately needs is not going to happen (easily): the unions will make sure of that.
So after 5 years of likely more of the same the second round will probably going between a Melenchon-type and a Le Pen-type: both extreme left but the first with more migrants and the second with less. But both with the likely collapse of France's finances.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 24, 2017, 01:09:27 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 24, 2017, 01:09:27 PM
Big jump in euro denominated ETFs today. :)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 24, 2017, 12:26:15 PMQuote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 09:03:32 AM
I feel for you because I know you mean well but you just don't see it. I hope you don't have kids because they'll be the ones forced to wear burkas and/or getting their heads chopped off for religious crimes.
Where are you getting your information on the state of France from?
Information on France c. 2050? I don't believe I'm claiming to have facts about that. Are you familiar with the nature of time?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on April 24, 2017, 02:36:31 PM
Post by: Zoupa on April 24, 2017, 02:36:31 PM
Got any real arguments or is this just your usual euro-poster trolling shtick?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 03:25:11 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 03:25:11 PM
Otto, despite his mellowing out since 2008, baked way too long under the "Moose Lambs Are Everywhere" fever. Still sees moose lambs on monkey bars in his sleep.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Maximus on April 24, 2017, 03:30:43 PM
Post by: Maximus on April 24, 2017, 03:30:43 PM
His fear is understandable though. Just look at this country. Once it was the home of the brave and now it's the home of people like Otto.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on April 24, 2017, 04:19:10 PM
Post by: Zanza on April 24, 2017, 04:19:10 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 24, 2017, 11:57:45 AMThe NSDAP only won 33%...
I doubt it. This Le Pen isn't the same as the old Le Pen, and will still get crushed. If the far right needs 50% of votes plus one, they won't win elections in western european democracies anytime soon.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: alfred russel on April 24, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Post by: alfred russel on April 24, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: Zanza on April 24, 2017, 04:19:10 PMQuote from: alfred russel on April 24, 2017, 11:57:45 AMThe NSDAP only won 33%...
I doubt it. This Le Pen isn't the same as the old Le Pen, and will still get crushed. If the far right needs 50% of votes plus one, they won't win elections in western european democracies anytime soon.
Yeah--I clearly put in the 50% threshold. I mean, I could see a far right party getting 33% or better, which could be massively problematic in most European countries. But a French presidential election? It isn't going to happen.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on April 24, 2017, 04:56:50 PM
Post by: Jacob on April 24, 2017, 04:56:50 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
Information on France c. 2050? I don't believe I'm claiming to have facts about that. Are you familiar with the nature of time?
Whatever information that leads you to think that "a European Caliphate" like the one you describe is even remotely likely.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: dps on April 24, 2017, 05:17:35 PM
Post by: dps on April 24, 2017, 05:17:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 24, 2017, 04:56:50 PMQuote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
Information on France c. 2050? I don't believe I'm claiming to have facts about that. Are you familiar with the nature of time?
Whatever information that leads you to think that "a European Caliphate" like the one you describe is even remotely likely.
Yeah, IMO it's more likely that by 2050, the Euros will be trying to implement a "Final Solution" to the Muslim problem.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on April 24, 2017, 05:23:38 PM
Post by: Oexmelin on April 24, 2017, 05:23:38 PM
Quote from: dps on April 24, 2017, 05:17:35 PM
Yeah, IMO it's more likely that by 2050, the Euros will be trying to implement a "Final Solution" to the Muslim problem.
Is that more likely, or less likely, than another American Civil War?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 05:48:50 PM
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on April 24, 2017, 05:23:38 PMQuote from: dps on April 24, 2017, 05:17:35 PM
Yeah, IMO it's more likely that by 2050, the Euros will be trying to implement a "Final Solution" to the Muslim problem.
Is that more likely, or less likely, than another American Civil War?
By 2050 we will probably be on our third one. :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: dps on April 24, 2017, 08:33:48 PM
Post by: dps on April 24, 2017, 08:33:48 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on April 24, 2017, 05:23:38 PMQuote from: dps on April 24, 2017, 05:17:35 PM
Yeah, IMO it's more likely that by 2050, the Euros will be trying to implement a "Final Solution" to the Muslim problem.
Is that more likely, or less likely, than another American Civil War?
Less.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 07:12:39 AM
Post by: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 07:12:39 AM
Quote from: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 05:05:23 AM
The Bourbon fella's father married into the Franco family, too. That helps a lot.
Franco is his great-grandfather, right? :ph34r:
I had to look this up because I came up to this guy through random wiki surfing after listening to Mike Duncan's latest Revolutions podcast on the 1830 French Revolution. did you listen to it?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on April 25, 2017, 08:31:13 AM
Post by: celedhring on April 25, 2017, 08:31:13 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 07:12:39 AMQuote from: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 05:05:23 AM
The Bourbon fella's father married into the Franco family, too. That helps a lot.
Franco is his great-grandfather, right? :ph34r:
I had to look this up because I came up to this guy through random wiki surfing after listening to Mike Duncan's latest Revolutions podcast on the 1830 French Revolution. did you listen to it?
I haven't, I tend to wait until he finishes a Revolution and then binge it at the gym.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Monoriu on April 25, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
Post by: Monoriu on April 25, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
It warms my heart that there is still a small but active royalist movement in France.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 09:32:45 AM
Post by: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 09:32:45 AM
Quote from: celedhring on April 25, 2017, 08:31:13 AMQuote from: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 07:12:39 AMQuote from: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 05:05:23 AM
The Bourbon fella's father married into the Franco family, too. That helps a lot.
Franco is his great-grandfather, right? :ph34r:
I had to look this up because I came up to this guy through random wiki surfing after listening to Mike Duncan's latest Revolutions podcast on the 1830 French Revolution. did you listen to it?
I haven't, I tend to wait until he finishes a Revolution and then binge it at the gym.
He just finished 1830 on Sunday so binge away.
Louis XX is not descended from any of the recent kings though, he goes through the Spanish Kings and his most recent French King ancestor is Louis XIV. I am happy to report that the descendants of Louis XV have all been extinguished in the male line.
He does have a fine looking head though, it would be lovely in a basket.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grey Fox on April 25, 2017, 09:50:09 AM
Post by: Grey Fox on April 25, 2017, 09:50:09 AM
If only Henry had kids none of this mess would be happening.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:28:05 AM
Post by: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:28:05 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 25, 2017, 09:50:09 AM
If only Henry had kids none of this mess would be happening.
The mess happened when Philip The Fair's grandsons failed to have sons. This is just something to laugh at.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 25, 2017, 10:30:03 AM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 25, 2017, 10:30:03 AM
Quote from: Jacob on April 24, 2017, 04:56:50 PMQuote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
Information on France c. 2050? I don't believe I'm claiming to have facts about that. Are you familiar with the nature of time?
Whatever information that leads you to think that "a European Caliphate" like the one you describe is even remotely likely.
Look at all the votes the caliphal candidate got.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:42:49 AM
Post by: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:42:49 AM
Hey! The practicing Catholics in France went for Fillon. They clearly believe in forgiveness :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 10:48:55 AM
Post by: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 10:48:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 09:32:45 AMQuote from: celedhring on April 25, 2017, 08:31:13 AMQuote from: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 07:12:39 AMQuote from: celedhring on April 24, 2017, 05:05:23 AM
The Bourbon fella's father married into the Franco family, too. That helps a lot.
Franco is his great-grandfather, right? :ph34r:
I had to look this up because I came up to this guy through random wiki surfing after listening to Mike Duncan's latest Revolutions podcast on the 1830 French Revolution. did you listen to it?
I haven't, I tend to wait until he finishes a Revolution and then binge it at the gym.
He just finished 1830 on Sunday so binge away.
I believe he said that he's still going to do a couple of suplementals, but of course those are optative. I must say I rather liked this one, being so short and to the point. And I was also not very aware of its details, so it's always nice to learn new events.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 10:51:16 AM
Post by: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 25, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
It warms my heart that there is still a small but active royalist movement in France.
But, of course, it's splintered. There are Legitimists, Orleanists aand Bonapartists. :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:56:56 AM
Post by: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 10:51:16 AMQuote from: Monoriu on April 25, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
It warms my heart that there is still a small but active royalist movement in France.
But, of course, it's splintered. There are Legitimists, Orleanists aand Bonapartists. :P
Which is what saved France in 1871. Well that and Henri's idiocy, which is always a safe bet when you are dealing with the Bourbons. No offense Spain :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 11:10:47 AM
Post by: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 11:10:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:56:56 AMQuote from: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 10:51:16 AMQuote from: Monoriu on April 25, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
It warms my heart that there is still a small but active royalist movement in France.
But, of course, it's splintered. There are Legitimists, Orleanists aand Bonapartists. :P
Which is what saved France in 1871. Well that and Henri's idiocy, which is always a safe bet when you are dealing with the Bourbons. No offense Spain :P
Offend away, it's not as if we treat our Bourbons with much respect anyway. :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: dps on April 25, 2017, 05:14:24 PM
Post by: dps on April 25, 2017, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 25, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
It warms my heart that there is still a small but active royalist movement in France.
Admiral Darlan would surely disagree.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Razgovory on April 25, 2017, 05:23:05 PM
Post by: Razgovory on April 25, 2017, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 11:10:47 AM
Offend away, it's not as if we treat our Bourbons with much respect anyway. :P
They treat it alright in Kentucky.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ed Anger on April 25, 2017, 07:28:04 PM
Post by: Ed Anger on April 25, 2017, 07:28:04 PM
Quote from: The Larch on April 25, 2017, 10:51:16 AMQuote from: Monoriu on April 25, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
It warms my heart that there is still a small but active royalist movement in France.
But, of course, it's splintered. There are Legitimists, Orleanists aand Bonapartists. :P
I met a Bonapartist over there a few years back. Nuttier than squirrel shit.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: viper37 on April 25, 2017, 10:22:29 PM
Post by: viper37 on April 25, 2017, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:42:49 AMThen again, it's not like he committed any serious crime. I mean, he could have been seen as friendly to gays and transsexuals. That would be really bad, and might not be forgiven on this Earth.
Hey! The practicing Catholics in France went for Fillon. They clearly believe in forgiveness :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Drakken on April 26, 2017, 12:29:07 AM
Post by: Drakken on April 26, 2017, 12:29:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:28:05 AMQuote from: Grey Fox on April 25, 2017, 09:50:09 AM
If only Henry had kids none of this mess would be happening.
The mess happened when Philip The Fair's grandsons failed to have sons. This is just something to laugh at.
More like none of Catherine de Medicis' inbred sons could manage to even try to father a (legitimate) son - and Marguerite was barren. Talk about a kick in the ovaries from God (or Fate) for Catherine, being forced to witness each of her dumbass sons die one by one, ineptly childless, being powerless to stop that Protestant peasant boar from Navarre coming ever closer to the throne.
At least, the direct Capetians tried to father sons; Louis X had a boy with Clemencia of Hungary, who was pregnant when he died, but the baby boy died within days after his baptism; Philippe V had a son, Louis-Philippe, which died in infancy during his reign; Charles IV married twice more after Blanche de Bourgogne had cuckolded him in the Tour de Nesle affair, but begot daughters - his Queen was 8-months pregnant when he died.
Philippe de Valois was a very close cousin, a baron of his own right, as Catholic as the rest of the bunch, and thus supported by almost all the Barons (and even received hommage from Edward III as Duke of Aquitaine). Henri de Navarre... well wasn't any of those.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Drakken on April 26, 2017, 12:55:04 AM
Post by: Drakken on April 26, 2017, 12:55:04 AM
The funniest joke is - the National Assembly immediately after the Franco-Prussian War was one of the most Royalists ever in modern French history - even more than under Louis XVIII and his chambre introuvable. The majority of MNAs agreed that this newly proclaimed "Third Republic" was to to be temporary, and in time a King would be chosen. However, Legitimists and Orleanists could never agree on whose candidate to back.
This was to be the last time a Monarchy would be seriously considered in France, and they fumbled the ball right there. For four years, no one could agree on which system to adopt in the vacuum in France. In effect, for years the National Assembly remained an Assemblée Constituante to decide on the next Constitution.
In 1875, after furious debates back and forth for and against having a Monarchy, a personal Republic, or a parliamentary Republic, Henri Wallon managed to have an amendment passed by the backdoor, which proclaimed that the President of the Republic was to elected by the vote of the National Assembly and the Senate. It passed the first reading by... only one vote: 353 to 352. :lol:
This was to be the last time a Monarchy would be seriously considered in France, and they fumbled the ball right there. For four years, no one could agree on which system to adopt in the vacuum in France. In effect, for years the National Assembly remained an Assemblée Constituante to decide on the next Constitution.
In 1875, after furious debates back and forth for and against having a Monarchy, a personal Republic, or a parliamentary Republic, Henri Wallon managed to have an amendment passed by the backdoor, which proclaimed that the President of the Republic was to elected by the vote of the National Assembly and the Senate. It passed the first reading by... only one vote: 353 to 352. :lol:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 26, 2017, 05:03:39 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 26, 2017, 05:03:39 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 25, 2017, 10:30:03 AMQuote from: Jacob on April 24, 2017, 04:56:50 PMQuote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 24, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
Information on France c. 2050? I don't believe I'm claiming to have facts about that. Are you familiar with the nature of time?
Whatever information that leads you to think that "a European Caliphate" like the one you describe is even remotely likely.
Look at all the votes the caliphal candidate got.
Lots of them, Mélenchon almost made it to the second round. :lol:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ed Anger on April 26, 2017, 07:53:17 AM
Post by: Ed Anger on April 26, 2017, 07:53:17 AM
'Murica won.
http://www.eater.com/2016/12/13/13937520/five-guys-paris-expansion-champs-elysees
USA USA USA
http://www.eater.com/2016/12/13/13937520/five-guys-paris-expansion-champs-elysees
USA USA USA
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grey Fox on April 26, 2017, 08:04:54 AM
Post by: Grey Fox on April 26, 2017, 08:04:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2017, 10:28:05 AMQuote from: Grey Fox on April 25, 2017, 09:50:09 AM
If only Henry had kids none of this mess would be happening.
The mess happened when Philip The Fair's grandsons failed to have sons. This is just something to laugh at.
I did not mean Henri IV but V.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on April 28, 2017, 11:10:04 AM
Post by: Zanza on April 28, 2017, 11:10:04 AM
Quote(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.static-economist.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2F1872-width%2F20170429_WOC973_1.png&hash=2ba163da1a014c4b88d21513d4b9688719def637)
Daily chart
Imagining a French electoral college
If France were to use America's electoral system, Marine Le Pen might be on course for victory
FRANCE'S presidential election bears some superficial similarities to America's presidential campaign last year. Both contests pitted populists—Marine Le Pen in France and Donald Trump in the United States—against liberals with ties to high finance, who had held senior cabinet roles in the incumbent administrations (Emmanuel Macron in France and Hillary Clinton in America). In both elections, the establishment candidates won the popular vote by a narrow but decisive margin—three percentage points in Mr Macron's case, two in Ms Clinton's. However, a difference between the two countries' political systems caused the outcomes of the elections to diverge. America's electoral college handed the presidency to the nationalist candidate, whereas France's two-round method with the winner chosen by popular vote is expected to deliver victory to the globalist one by a comfortable margin.
Might Ms Le Pen be celebrating already today if France had copied the American electoral college? Her voters did tend to be rural and geographically dispersed, just like Mr Trump's. In contrast, Mr Macron's supporters concentrated in cities as Ms Clinton's did.
The American system can be translated to France with some straightforward arithmetic. Considering the 18 French regions—13 in metropolitan France and five overseas—as analogous to American states, each one gets two senators. Maintaining the American ratio of 4.35 members of the lower chamber for each of the 36 senators, the French House of Representatives would have 157 seats. Since each region is guaranteed at least one representative in the lower house, 139 seats would be allocated on the basis of population using the method of equal proportions. Finally, each region would be weighted in the electoral college by the total number of its representatives in both chambers.
The California of the French electoral college would be Île-de-France, the region that contains Paris. With just over 12m residents, 18% of the French population, it would cast 30 of the 193 electoral votes. The runner-up would be Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, with 20 electoral votes, followed by Hauts-de-France and New Aquitaine, with 16 each. Pulling up the rear would be the island of Corsica and the five overseas regions, all but one of which would get the minimum of three votes.
Just as in the United States, a French electoral college would have negated the liberal candidate's advantage in the popular vote. Although Mr Macron prevailed in the two biggest regions, Ms Le Pen came first in seven of the next nine. The result would be a stunning tie: the two leaders would have received 90 electoral votes each, with the leftist Jean-Luc Mélenchon claiming ten (all from overseas regions) and the conservative François Fillon a paltry three.
Using these rules, no candidate would have won a majority of the electoral college. As a result, under the system implemented by the 12th amendment to the United States constitution in 1804, the House of Representatives would then pick the victor, with each region getting one vote regardless of its size. Assuming that each region supported the candidate that won it, the contender supported by the majority of regions would be named president.
With eight of the eighteen regions to her name, Ms Le Pen would be only two short of an absolute majority. Mr Macron would be behind with six (and likely also supported by Mr Fillon's one region). It would be up to supporters of Mr Mélenchon, who won three regions, to pick the next president: the future of Europe would rest on the radical left of France.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 28, 2017, 11:23:55 AM
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 28, 2017, 11:23:55 AM
Yikes
Gotta find the article--I think it was the NYT--of what the presidential election would've looked like if we had the French system, neat graphics too
Gotta find the article--I think it was the NYT--of what the presidential election would've looked like if we had the French system, neat graphics too
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 28, 2017, 11:37:03 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 28, 2017, 11:37:03 AM
Only electoral colleges in France are for the Paris mayor election and the Senate.
Weird results at times. ;)
Weird results at times. ;)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on May 03, 2017, 07:41:41 PM
Post by: Grallon on May 03, 2017, 07:41:41 PM
So who won the last debate? Marine or that puppet satisfied of his strings Macron? Well no matter - elect Macron now and in 5 years time she will get in by a landslide.
G.
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Liep on May 04, 2017, 05:20:51 AM
Post by: Liep on May 04, 2017, 05:20:51 AM
Urban vs. Rural but with the EU farm subsidies gloriously visible! :P
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C--Gj4VXgAAYVTT.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C--Gj4VXgAAYVTT.jpg)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on May 04, 2017, 05:43:18 AM
Post by: Josquius on May 04, 2017, 05:43:18 AM
So as per elsewhere in the world its the small towns that feel so left out they decided to vote to make their situation even worse.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Solmyr on May 04, 2017, 07:48:16 AM
Post by: Solmyr on May 04, 2017, 07:48:16 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xUA7aZDtIyexH0a29W/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 04, 2017, 08:51:02 AM
Post by: derspiess on May 04, 2017, 08:51:02 AM
Wait -- OMG was Macron making the alt right nazi fascist sign???
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 09:08:54 AM
Post by: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 09:08:54 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 04, 2017, 08:51:02 AM
Wait -- OMG was Macron making the alt right nazi fascist sign???
Wise strategy. Erode her voting base.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: HVC on May 04, 2017, 09:27:08 AM
Post by: HVC on May 04, 2017, 09:27:08 AM
I thought she was trying to make a Jacques Cousteau impersonation
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 04, 2017, 12:55:19 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 04, 2017, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: Grallon on May 03, 2017, 07:41:41 PM
So who won the last debate? The Russian puppet or that puppet satisfied of his strings Macron? Well no matter - elect Macron now and in 5 years time she will get in by a landslide.
G.
corrected that for you.
though her chances in '22 may indeed be much better. Not that the French are in need of more far-leftist economic idiocy.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 04, 2017, 02:14:13 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 04, 2017, 02:14:13 PM
Quote from: Grallon on May 03, 2017, 07:41:41 PM
So who won the last debate? Marine or that puppet satisfied of his strings Macron? Well no matter - elect Macron now and in 5 years time she will get in by a landslide.
G.
Commentators say Maquereau but I am not convinced. Of course, Marine was aggressive but I can't say she won too.
PS: Putin had other puppets. Arguably, Marine is puppet n°1. ;)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 02:16:15 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 02:16:15 PM
Is there something particularly fish-like about Macron?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 04, 2017, 02:31:55 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 04, 2017, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 02:16:15 PM
Is there something particularly fish-like about Macron?
Check the other meaning of maquereau in French. Pronounced macro too. :frog:
More Macron for you (CdM go away please you won't like it):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxh07tT52ys (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxh07tT52ys)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on May 04, 2017, 05:39:09 PM
Post by: Grallon on May 04, 2017, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 04, 2017, 02:14:13 PM
Commentators say Maquereau but I am not convinced. Of course, Marine was aggressive but I can't say she won too.
PS: Putin had other puppets. Arguably, Marine is puppet n°1. ;)
Do you really believe she's a Russian puppet? I mean sure her election would align with Russia's long term goals, but a direct agent? I doubt they have as much dirt on her as they do on Trump which they apparently can manipulate at will. But even then... Macron comes from the Rothschild' stable - you can't be more enthralled to the globalist agenda of destroying nation states so that the global elite can rule without any opposition than that.
Give me a proto-fascist (not that I believe Marine is - even though some of her supporters may be) over a cyber feudal lord any day of the week!
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 05:56:00 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 05:56:00 PM
The liberal agenda is not about destroying anything but building things. If we wanted to destroy the nation state we would be supporting Gallon and the people he supports, not opposing.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 04, 2017, 05:59:55 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 04, 2017, 05:59:55 PM
I may regret asking this Grallon, but are there concrete *acts* and *policies* you approve and disapprove under that stirring rhetoric? For example are you opposed to trade and overseas investment?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on May 04, 2017, 07:04:01 PM
Post by: Grallon on May 04, 2017, 07:04:01 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 04, 2017, 05:59:55 PM
I may regret asking this Grallon, but are there concrete *acts* and *policies* you approve and disapprove under that stirring rhetoric? For example are you opposed to trade and overseas investment?
Any financial and/or trade agreement that supersedes the authority of elected and (technically) accountable officials is suspect. Any instance where the sovereign authority of a parliament is overridden by a trade treaty is suspect.
There are interests that wishes to free themselves from any form of accountability... and of course there are those maggots who gravitate around such interests, accountants, investment bankers, lawyers, who all salivate at the thought of profiteering from such long standing schemes... Macron is their candidate since, once elected, he will use the powers of his office the suborn the republic to said interests...
No indeed - give me Marine any day before surrendering to these ghouls!
G
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 04, 2017, 07:06:35 PM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 04, 2017, 07:06:35 PM
Quote from: Grallon on May 04, 2017, 07:04:01 PM
Any financial and/or trade agreement that supersedes the authority of elected and (technically) accountable officials is suspect. Any instance where the sovereign authority of a parliament is overridden by a trade treaty is suspect.
Are there any particular countries you had in mind that don't require parliamentary approval of trade treaties?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 04, 2017, 07:14:20 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 04, 2017, 07:14:20 PM
Yeah that's a bit weird, since one of the obstacles with negotiating trade treaties with the EU is that every single national parliament needs to sign off on it....
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Post by: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Obama posted a video endorsement of Macron.
I don't get it, but you do you Barack.
I don't get it, but you do you Barack.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2017, 07:29:16 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2017, 07:29:16 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Obama posted a video endorsement of Macron.
I don't get it, but you do you Barack.
It's that fucking important.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ed Anger on May 04, 2017, 07:31:25 PM
Post by: Ed Anger on May 04, 2017, 07:31:25 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Obama posted a video endorsement of Macron.
I don't get it, but you do you Barack.
I can post a video of me in a bathrobe ranting an endorsement of Le Pen. Or I can be naked.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 04, 2017, 07:49:24 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 04, 2017, 07:49:24 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 04, 2017, 07:31:25 PMQuote from: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Obama posted a video endorsement of Macron.
I don't get it, but you do you Barack.
I can post a video of me in a bathrobe ranting an endorsement of Le Pen. Or I can be naked.
Perfect. Let us know when it's ready.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 10:50:21 PM
Post by: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 10:50:21 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2017, 07:29:16 PMQuote from: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Obama posted a video endorsement of Macron.
I don't get it, but you do you Barack.
It's that fucking important.
Oh I'm not disputing that. It's just hilarious to think that he, or you apparently, think it will any weight come Sunday. Might even backfire.
Reminds me of those Guardian readers writing to the rednecks of Ohio to vote for Kerry.
Stay in your lane boys. Don't he have a speech to prepare for wall st anyways?
Oh, I forgot, Macron comes from big finance too. Keep dancing to the tune, folks. Wouldn't want to see the strings making the puppet dance.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 11:01:24 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 10:50:21 PM
Oh, I forgot, Macron comes from big finance too. Keep dancing to the tune, folks. Wouldn't want to see the strings making the puppet dance.
Gosh international capital controlling us all like puppets? Yeah let's go back to that rhetoric. It already got us Trump and worked so well in the 1930s.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Syt on May 05, 2017, 04:22:34 AM
Post by: Syt on May 05, 2017, 04:22:34 AM
https://www.rt.com/politics/386962-most-russians-would-prefer-le/
QuoteMost Russians want Le Pen as next French president, poll shows
Almost two-thirds of Russians support Marine Le Pen in the current French presidential campaign, with just 8 percent preferring Emmanuel Macron as the next leader of France.
According to a recent poll conducted by Russian state-run sociological agency VTSIOM, half of all Russians are following the events of the current French presidential elections.
Just over half – 57 percent – think that the outcome of the race is important for Russia, while about 30 percent believe that the poll results will not affect their country in any significant way.
Around a quarter – 26 percent – say they support neither of the candidates who have made it into the May 7 runoff.
The head of the VTSIOM center, Valeriy Fedorov, said that the poll results were understandable and expected because National Front (FN) leader Le Pen has repeatedly spoken for the need to end the tension between Russia and the West.
The second round of the French presidential elections will see En Marche party head Macron, who claimed over 24 percent of votes in the first round, face off against right-wing Le Pen, who garnered over 21 percent of votes.
In late March this year, Le Pen visited Moscow and met Russian President Vladimir Putin. During the pair's discussion, Putin stressed the importance of relations with France and said that despite reserving the right to meet any potential candidate, Moscow has no intention of meddling in the French presidential vote.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on May 05, 2017, 04:34:32 AM
Post by: Zoupa on May 05, 2017, 04:34:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2017, 11:01:24 PMQuote from: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 10:50:21 PM
Oh, I forgot, Macron comes from big finance too. Keep dancing to the tune, folks. Wouldn't want to see the strings making the puppet dance.
Gosh international capital controlling us all like puppets? Yeah let's go back to that rhetoric. It already got us Trump and worked so well in the 1930s.
Hurts coz it's true. Greed will kill us all in the end.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Solmyr on May 05, 2017, 05:08:07 AM
Post by: Solmyr on May 05, 2017, 05:08:07 AM
Wait, when did Grallon go full Elders of Zion retard?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 05:19:12 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 05:19:12 AM
Quote from: Grallon on May 04, 2017, 05:39:09 PMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on May 04, 2017, 02:14:13 PM
Commentators say Maquereau won but I am not convinced. Of course, Marine was aggressive but I can't say she won too.
PS: Putin had other puppets. Arguably, Marine is puppet n°1. ;)
Do you really believe she's a Russian puppet? I mean sure her election would align with Russia's long term goals, but a direct agent? I doubt they have as much dirt on her as they do on Trump which they apparently can manipulate at will. But even then... Macron comes from the Rothschild' stable - you can't be more enthralled to the globalist agenda of destroying nation states so that the global elite can rule without any opposition than that.
Give me a proto-fascist (not that I believe Marine is - even though some of her supporters may be) over a cyber feudal lord any day of the week!
G.
No question Macron comes from the Rotschild stable. This is the guy who claims there is no French culture,
Quoteil n'y a d'ailleurs pas une culture française, il y a une culture en France, elle est diverse, elle est multiple".A true anglo multiculturalist stance, which makes even less sense in France than in North America.
He also compares a police operation against Jihadis in the mediterranean with crimes against humanity. No mention of the historical context (Charles X, Algiers Dey etc.) and that the subsequent colonisation and decolonization were the real problem, though far from "crimes against humanity".
He is Hollande 2.0. Gauche caviar/Champagne left at its worst, under a thin apolitical guise. Think of him as the perfect Martinus Left.
La peste et le choléra, Macron 2017 = Marine 2022 are perfectly plausible.
I guess you can figure what will be my vote now. :)
However, Russian financing of the FN, in the past at the very least, is well documented. French political parties are financed by the State depending on votes and up to a limit, but recently they run into problems, not just the FN, so money has been harder to fin.
http://www.atlantico.fr/decryptage/marine-pen-confrontee-grave-crise-tresorerie-qui-pourrait-compromettre-campagne-nicholas-vinocur-2834358.html (http://www.atlantico.fr/decryptage/marine-pen-confrontee-grave-crise-tresorerie-qui-pourrait-compromettre-campagne-nicholas-vinocur-2834358.html)
QuoteTous les partis sont confrontés au refus des banques françaises de leur accorder des prêts. Mais c'est encore plus problématique pour le Front national, car les autres parties (Les Républicains, Parti socialiste) disposent de sources de revenus alternatives : anciens prêts bancaires refinancés, plus de militants pour faire des dons, etc. Le Front national a moins de militants, et ils donnent très peu. Son seul prêt vient d'une banque soutenue par la Russie qui n'a aujourd'hui plus le droit de faire des affaires.
How a a country with 20 % muslims (real figures are hard to obtain as in France), imams paid by the State, be a model for European nationalists/far-righters is beyond me. They don't share nowadays the islamophilia of Hitler (read his sadness about the Battle of Poitiers/Tours) or Himmler anymore.
It does not make sense, but money talks or rather people sell out.
Once the FN was associated with Svoboda, the populist/far right Ukrainian party, which took part in the Maidan protests. Guess what, after the Crimea affair, the FN reproduced the same Kremlin rhetoric and Svoboda denounced the partnership they had.
Having a KGB dude playing both the far right and far left in the West is not exactly new.
Of course, Mélenchon is also quite pro-Putin, with an exclusive anti-Baltic streak which does not seem to trouble PC crusaders, Lithuanian apartheid regime against Russians, SS Lithuanian division proof Lithuania's nazi-leanings during the war etc.; Asselineau is even more anti-EU and anti-NATO than Marine, with a conspiracy-minded twist ; Dupont-Aignan is more or less on the same line regarding Russia, but not as anti-EU as her. Plus some usual useful idiots on the left, two trotskyites, more anti-NATO, pacifists than really pro-Putin.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 10:42:49 AM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 10:50:21 PM
Oh, I forgot, Macron comes from big finance too. Keep dancing to the tune, folks. Wouldn't want to see the strings making the puppet dance.
Really? The Rothschild global banking conspiracy is really still considered au courant in your circles?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 10:46:16 AM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 10:46:16 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 05:19:12 AM
He is Hollande 2.0. Gauche caviar/Champagne left at its worst, under a thin apolitical guise. Think of him as the perfect Martinus Left.
La peste et le choléra, Macron 2017 = Marine 2022 are perfectly plausible.
I guess you can figure what will be my vote now. :)
However, Russian financing of the FN, in the past at the very least, is well documented.
Right, on the one hand you have a pack of crypto-fascists in the pocket of a foreign dictator.
On the other hand you have a guy who said some nice things about Muslims.
So . . . it's team Swastika FTW!
Better Hitler than Blum right?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 10:46:55 AM
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 10:46:55 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2017, 07:29:16 PMQuote from: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Obama posted a video endorsement of Macron.
I don't get it, but you do you Barack.
It's that fucking important.
:lol:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on May 05, 2017, 11:05:34 AM
Post by: Oexmelin on May 05, 2017, 11:05:34 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 10:46:16 AM
Right, on the one hand you have a pack of crypto-fascists in the pocket of a foreign dictator.
On the other hand you have a guy who said some nice things about Muslims.
So . . . it's team Swastika FTW!
Better Hitler than Blum right?
This is not going to work. Duque has been a crypto frontiste for years, complete with the mandatory ritual denunciations of "political correctness".
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 11:59:36 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 11:59:36 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 10:46:16 AMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 05:19:12 AM
He is Hollande 2.0. Gauche caviar/Champagne left at its worst, under a thin apolitical guise. Think of him as the perfect Martinus Left.
La peste et le choléra, Macron 2017 = Marine 2022 are perfectly plausible.
I guess you can figure what will be my vote now. :)
However, Russian financing of the FN, in the past at the very least, is well documented.
Right, on the one hand you have a pack of crypto-fascists in the pocket of a foreign dictator.
On the other hand you have a guy who said some nice things about Muslims.
So . . . it's team Swastika FTW!
Better Hitler than Blum right?
He says nice things about islamists too (on and off record), but despises the proles, who are drunkards, smokers, lazy, illiterate (in the case of the ladies) if they don't find a job. So pick your poison.
I won't, so I'll wait for the legislative elections to have a proper choice (3rd round of Presidential elections). It's not the US elections, remember.
Get the proper slogan first, it's "plutôt Hitler que le front Populaire". It has to rhyme to be a good slogan in French, before even considering the message. Macron is very far from the Front Populaire policies, or Blum for that matter, and Marine is no Hitler sorry. Her Dad was in the OAS, is a extreme-right troll, not really interested in power yet she gets lots of votes from North African-born French Jews (pied-noirs) and from these North Africans who served in the French Army during the Algerian war , so the reality is more complex.
Speaking of the FN, it would not have reached the heights it has now, if not for François Mitterrand and the PS government
Quote« On a tout intérêt à pousser le Front National. Il rend la droite inéligible. Plus il sera fort, plus on sera imbattables. C'est la chance historique des socialistes ».From a 1990 book: Le Président de Franz-Olivier Giesbert (Editions du Seuil) quoting Pierre Bérégovoy.
http://reve86.org/le-fn-et-francois-mitterrand/ (http://reve86.org/le-fn-et-francois-mitterrand/)
Left-wing link
A strong FN helps the PS, old or new (Macron). Of course, it has to be done covertly and expertly, or the maneuver backfires as in 2002.
So reductio ad hitlerem is not enough nor relevant for describing Marine. The old "anti-fascism" card is theatre, as said by Jospin. A nice Mitterrand tactic.
Marine an angry populist? Sure! Her Euro policy is not exactly convincing, nor coherent. Less so lately, thanks to the agreement with Dupont-Aigan, himself a euroskeptic.
As for Blum, he did not oppose the Munich conference, and the 40h week should have excluded for the time being war industries (the only bad effect). His non-intervention policy in Spain, can't be really blamed only on him, but did not help of course. He did not oppose the remilitarisation of the Rhineland too earlier.
Lots, if not most in the left and right were pacifist. Besides, even the notorious anti-semite Maurras was anti-German for a while, and he supported Pétain later on.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:00:39 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:00:39 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 05, 2017, 11:05:34 AMQuote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 10:46:16 AM
Right, on the one hand you have a pack of crypto-fascists in the pocket of a foreign dictator.
On the other hand you have a guy who said some nice things about Muslims.
So . . . it's team Swastika FTW!
Better Hitler than Blum right?
This is not going to work. Duque has been a crypto frontiste for years, complete with the mandatory ritual denunciations of "political correctness".
Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:01:52 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:01:52 PM
I thought France had no government during the re-occupation of the Rhineland.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:02:19 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:02:19 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:00:39 PM
Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!
Not during the first round no...
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 12:04:36 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:00:39 PM
Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!
The assessment is not based on your potential vote in this one election, but rather your record of statements over the last several years.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:05:05 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:05:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:02:19 PMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:00:39 PM
Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!
Not during the first round no...
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:01:52 PM
I thought France had no government during the re-occupation of the Rhineland.
Yep, interim government.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:02:19 PMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:00:39 PM
Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!
Not during the first round no...
All right.
Not during the second round too.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:10:13 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 12:04:36 PMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:00:39 PM
Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!
The assessment is not based on your potential vote in this one election, but rather your record of statements over the last several years.
Well, assessments or rather opinions as shown in this thread are like arseholes, everybody has got one.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:11:19 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:11:19 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
All right.
Not during the second round too.
You have your views on the subject. I have mine. Is opposing the far right make you a PC crusader now? Though granted just throwing around that bullshit term in such a critical moment for the entire Western World is probably damning enough for you.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:22:23 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:22:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:11:19 PMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
All right.
Not during the second round too.
You have your views on the subject. I have mine. Is opposing the far right make you a PC crusader now? Though granted just throwing around that bullshit term in such a critical moment for the entire Western World is probably damning enough for you.
There are much better ways of opposing the far right than voting for Macron and his clique. Le Pen won't be elected. If she were, she would not get a majority given the majority voting system, very unfriendly to smaller parties. Mind you, it could happen to Macron too, hopefully yes IMO.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 12:26:39 PM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 12:26:39 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 11:59:36 AM
Her Dad was in the OAS, is a extreme-right troll, not really interested in power yet she gets lots of votes from North African-born French Jews (pied-noirs) and from these North Africans who served in the French Army during the Algerian war , so the reality is more complex.
Her father is a raving anti-Semite. She has a much more slick media operation but you don't have to dig very far in that party organization to hit scum.
Getting votes from Algerian Jews says a lot about the self-delusion of that community but not much about the character of the FN.
Recall back in the early 30s and even later there were plenty of people in the West willing to defend Hitler and Mussolini as misunderstood nationalists.
Bottom line is that you and grallon have been whipping Macron for pages because of what you imagine he represents, where he worked, his formation, his position in society, his "multiculturalist stance" his "stable" - all of which really amount to nothing except this - you don't like the cut of his jib. What we're not hearing is what policy he has that is so terrible that France should opt for FN.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:32:08 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 12:32:08 PM
He is a puppet of big international capital! Because nationalists are never corrupt no sir.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ancient Demon on May 05, 2017, 01:14:16 PM
Post by: Ancient Demon on May 05, 2017, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 12:26:39 PM
Getting votes from Algerian Jews says a lot about the self-delusion of that community but not much about the character of the FN.
Why shouldn't Algerian Jews fear Muslims more than the FN? Where's most of the violence and harassment coming from?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 01:27:03 PM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 01:27:03 PM
Quote from: Ancient Demon on May 05, 2017, 01:14:16 PM
Why shouldn't Algerian Jews fear Muslims more than the FN? Where's most of the violence and harassment coming from?
That's a false dichotomy if there ever was one.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 02:03:33 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 12:26:39 PM
Her father is a raving anti-Semite. She has a much more slick media operation but you don't have to dig very far in that party organization to hit scum.
FN n°2, Phillipot, is a former Chevènement supporter, homosexual (Grallon connection?), n°3 is Alliot, quarter Jew. I really don't think Le Pen approved. The classic extreme-right types like Lesquen, Radio Courtoisie or Rivarol newspaper types don't like it, to say the least.
Quote
Getting votes from Algerian Jews says a lot about the self-delusion of that community but not much about the character of the FN.
Well, Algerians don't see them as Algerians, nor do they see themselves as Algerians. Français de confession israélite. Case in point: Zemmour, quite the trublion.
Le Pen father anti-semitism is something he shares with islamists or North African youths, the ones the PC left likes, but at a distance, i.e in a banlieue. Le Pen for such a radical he is does not kill Jews, unlike radical North African youths à la Mohamed Merah. Le Pen father trolls are best ignored, unfortunately this does not work for islamists, specially the violent variety.
I am drifting a bit here, but the Crémieux décret, granting French citizenship to Jews in Algeria, seems to be a curse in disguise regarding the relations betweens Jews and North Africans in France, rather than the Israeli-Arab conflict, as commonly suggested.
Quote
Recall back in the early 30s and even later there were plenty of people in the West willing to defend Hitler and Mussolini as misunderstood nationalists.
Go back to the '30s again? Why not Salazar and Metaxas? Or Dolfuss if you really need an Austrian? Authoritarian tendencies, but not fascist. Her program is close to Mélenchon's, economy-wise.
Quote
Bottom line is that you and grallon have been whipping Macron for pages because of what you imagine he represents, where he worked, his formation, his position in society, his "multiculturalist stance" his "stable" - all of which really amount to nothing except this - you don't like the cut of his jib. What we're not hearing is what policy he has that is so terrible that France should opt for FN.
I didn't say opt for FN. Wait for the Legislative elections and reign Macron in. Marine won't get elected.
I know who Macron is, a living caricature of a classist provincial bourgeois that makes Le Pen feel at home among workers. Quite a feat. Marine is a lawyer
I know what he has done. At best, nothing much. His free-market reforms have had at best a small positive impact: Macron coaches or easier Sunday opening for stores in the big cities. Small changes.
For the El-Khomri labour flexibilisation reform law (Macron was one of the minds behind it) which created extreme polarisation, the effect is yet to be seen. Lots of changes were retracted after wide opposition.
Small results and wide discontent.
The only way he is going to get some reform-minded legislation, in a free-market/classic liberal way, is by having a massive Identity politics diversion to keep the people busy, à la Mitterrand in '83. Expect no immigration reform, where reforms are badly needed. In the old times, till the '80s, the communists (cf. Marchais) were even against all immigration yet they were spared the anti-fascist theatre.
Among other problems, he never ran for office before, so his political experience is quite new. Of course, he can say he is no career politician and this helped him in the campaign but the pro-Macron media barrage won't last forever. When problems hit harder and they will hit, the lack of coherent majority, experience or simply character will hit harshly.
I suppose he can pass some legislation during the "summer honey moon" if some kind of coalition is set up by having the PS and some centrists behind him. Beyond that...
He has potential for lots of worse, by pandering to his heterogeneous base with all kinds of communautarisme-friendly measures. At the very least, he can start his mandate by a cohabitation, an unequaled feat, not even Chirac achieved it. Die Große Koalition is not exactly popular in France, as you probably know.
So what do we get? 5 lost years, à la Hollande, with a media darling instead, opening the way for you know whom: Marine.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 02:13:45 PM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 02:13:45 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 02:03:33 PM
Why not Salazar and Metaxas? Or Dolfuss if you really need an Austrian?
That's supposed to be a defense?
QuoteHer program is close to Mélenchon's, economy-wise.
Again - is that supposed to be a defense?
QuoteSmall results and wide discontent.
The only way he is going to get some reform-minded legislation, in a free-market/classic liberal way, is by having a massive Identity politics diversion to keep the people busy, à la Mitterrand in '83.
That says sad things about the state of politics in France, but not really about Macron
QuoteIn the old times, till the '80s, the communists (cf. Marchais) were even against all immigration yet they were spared the anti-fascist theatre.
So now we've compared the FN program to 3 1930s era soft fascist dictators, a hard left splitter from the PS, and the old PCF. Can I assume that is not meant as praise?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: HVC on May 05, 2017, 02:25:11 PM
Post by: HVC on May 05, 2017, 02:25:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?
Different people are different and thus the cause of everything that is wrong. It's been the natural social state since forever, tolerance is relatively new and not that long lived. When things go well it's easier, but things get tough people need someone to blame.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 02:28:24 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 02:28:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?
Not everyone, but that's been Duque's POV for a while.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: citizen k on May 05, 2017, 02:34:08 PM
Post by: citizen k on May 05, 2017, 02:34:08 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 05, 2017, 02:25:11 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?
Different people are different and thus the cause of everything that is wrong. It's been the natural social state since forever, tolerance is relatively new and not that long lived. When things go well it's easier, but things get tough people need someone to blame.
I'm sure Valmy will mellow with age.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:14 PM
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 02:28:24 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?
Not everyone, but that's been Duque's POV for a while.
Do you keep a file on everyone? :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:51 PM
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?
Antifas are worse than actual fascists.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:51 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?
Antifas are worse than actual fascists.
I don't know what this means. In any case my opposition to Le Pen has nothing to do with buzz words like 'fascist' but on basically everything she claims to stand for. She has a radical left wing economic agenda. Does that not bother you? You seem weirdly supportive of her, I know you are going full Cold War Democrat and all.
Equating opposition to idiocy like that as some kind of theatre is nonsense.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2017, 02:49:38 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2017, 02:49:38 PM
Antifas are people who believe in the acceptability of using extra-legal means to combat fascism.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:49:50 PM
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
I don't know what this means. In any case my opposition to Le Pen has nothing to do with buzz words like 'fascist' but on basically everything she claims to stand for. She has a radical left wing economic agenda. Does that not bother you?
What is radically left wing about her economic agenda?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:50:27 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:50:27 PM
Quote from: citizen k on May 05, 2017, 02:34:08 PM
I'm sure Valmy will mellow with age.
All I do is state my political opinions on an obscure internet message board. I am not sure how much more mellow I can get.
Edit: Well I guess I could just go full Mono but, you know, without the crime.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:50:45 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:50:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2017, 02:49:38 PM
Antifas are people who believe in the acceptability of using extra-legal means to combat fascism.
Well all I am asking for is people vote against them.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 03:06:32 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 03:06:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?
Calm down, Saint-Just, don't go Fouquier-Tinville on me, that would be la double peine.
It's a Jospin quote. I am sure you remember him. PS prime minister of Chirac. A decent guy.
French only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niC9Bgyt7PA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niC9Bgyt7PA)
0'07"
Tout anti-fascisme n'était que du théâtre.
PS: he mentions clearly Le Pen father
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 03:10:07 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 03:10:07 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:49:50 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
I don't know what this means. In any case my opposition to Le Pen has nothing to do with buzz words like 'fascist' but on basically everything she claims to stand for. She has a radical left wing economic agenda. Does that not bother you?
What is radically left wing about her economic agenda?
More centralized state planning?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 03:14:58 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 03:14:58 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 03:06:32 PM
Calm down, Saint-Just, don't go Fouquier-Tinville on me, that would be la double peine.
Awww what a nice thing to say :P
Fair enough. I just do not want the numerous reasons the FN is unacceptable to get construed as some sort of hysteria.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 03:18:40 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 03:18:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 03:10:07 PMQuote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:49:50 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
I don't know what this means. In any case my opposition to Le Pen has nothing to do with buzz words like 'fascist' but on basically everything she claims to stand for. She has a radical left wing economic agenda. Does that not bother you?
What is radically left wing about her economic agenda?
More centralized state planning?
Basically. Populist state intervention. Heck Duque described it as not far off from Mélenchon.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 03:48:44 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 03:48:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 02:13:45 PM
That's supposed to be a defense?
No, a question. Avoid unfounded Reductio ad hitlerem next time. This is not the '30s anymore.
QuoteHer program is close to Mélenchon's, economy-wise.
Quote
Again - is that supposed to be a defense?
Well, you claim Marine is a neo-nazi cf. "team Swastika ", your words. Is he team Swastika too?
Criticism of Marine, or Mélenchon for that matter, has to be a bit more thought out.
QuoteSmall results and wide discontent.
The only way he is going to get some reform-minded legislation, in a free-market/classic liberal way, is by having a massive Identity politics diversion to keep the people busy, à la Mitterrand in '83.
Quote
That says sad things about the state of politics in France, but not really about Macron
We can agree on the first part, but it is really about Macron. He was a minister in a Hollande government, led by the party still operating on Mitterand's principles.
QuoteIn the old times, till the '80s, the communists (cf. Marchais) were even against all immigration yet they were spared the anti-fascist theatre.
Quote
So now we've compared the FN program to 3 1930s era soft fascist dictators, a hard left splitter from the PS, and the old PCF. Can I assume that is not meant as praise?
Salazar and Metaxas was tongue in cheek for the Reductio ad hitlerem cliché. They are really like minor league "fascism", since they lack the totalitarian and expansionist aspect, so even calling them fascism is debatable and does not help in understanding the deep nature of the respective regimes.
Marchais, as far as commies go, was perfectly acceptable. Old PCF is not true since Marchais de-stalinised the party. Unlike, say the Portuguese Communist Party. ;)
City communism, French-style, with class-conscious proletariat sure beats ethnic/islamist enclaves. Except for Mitterrand and the PS which needed a majority by neutering without killing the PCF. Of course, it's the past, but so are the Glorious Thirties and their favorable context for immigration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG2BA9SxClM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG2BA9SxClM) Marchais "halt all immigration legal and illegal", immigration and its problems, fake "cultural" centres
dates from 1980-81.
Old PCF means in France, the likes of Thorez and Duclos. You probably know the former who deserted in 1939 to join Moscow, as per Molotov-Ribbentrop rules.
As for hard left splitter for Mélenchon, you are too kind. Hard left? he wishes so, former PS apparatchik, former Trot (reverse entrism?).
My point is, the Marine/contemporary FN phenomenon should be separated from the '30s, if you really want to understand and improve the current situation, instead of just empty posturing or as Jospin would say theatre. Otherwise, it's pointless to keep on discussing.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 03:49:10 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 03:49:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 03:18:40 PMQuote from: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 03:10:07 PMQuote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:49:50 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
I don't know what this means. In any case my opposition to Le Pen has nothing to do with buzz words like 'fascist' but on basically everything she claims to stand for. She has a radical left wing economic agenda. Does that not bother you?
What is radically left wing about her economic agenda?
More centralized state planning?
Basically. Populist state intervention. Heck Duque described it as not far off from Mélenchon.
Four-year plans, à la Brezhnev, not coercitive though so really French dirigisme-style, the socialism that works, or used to. :P
Of course, this would only work in a more closed economy. Mélenchon and Le Pen agree on this point.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: MadImmortalMan on May 05, 2017, 04:25:44 PM
Post by: MadImmortalMan on May 05, 2017, 04:25:44 PM
Recreating the policies of les trente glorieuses won't recreate the conditions that made it work back then. It was the conditions of the times which made the policies of the time work, and not the other way around.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 04:58:44 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 04:58:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:14 PM
Do you keep a file on everyone? :P
No, but I do note people's political opinions when they voice them.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 04:59:26 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 04:59:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
I don't know what this means. In any case my opposition to Le Pen has nothing to do with buzz words like 'fascist' but on basically everything she claims to stand for. She has a radical left wing economic agenda. Does that not bother you? You seem weirdly supportive of her, I know you are going full Cold War Democrat and all.
Equating opposition to idiocy like that as some kind of theatre is nonsense.
It's a line of argument from the alt-right that Spicy is repeating as part of his "I'm just trolling you, lol" persona.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 05:02:08 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 05:02:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 04:58:44 PMQuote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:14 PM
Do you keep a file on everyone? :P
No, but I do note people's political opinions when they voice them.
Ohh ohh, what are mine?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 05:03:01 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 05:03:01 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 05:02:08 PM
Ohh ohh, what are mine?
You're misanthropic left with warmonger tendencies.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Razgovory on May 05, 2017, 05:09:54 PM
Post by: Razgovory on May 05, 2017, 05:09:54 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 04:58:44 PMQuote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:14 PM
Do you keep a file on everyone? :P
No, but I do note people's political opinions when they voice them.
But I do. :ph34r:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 06:03:04 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 05:03:01 PMQuote from: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 05:02:08 PM
Ohh ohh, what are mine?
You're misanthropic left with warmonger tendencies.
How delightfully threatening!
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: citizen k on May 05, 2017, 06:09:43 PM
Post by: citizen k on May 05, 2017, 06:09:43 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 05:03:01 PMQuote from: CountDeMoney on May 05, 2017, 05:02:08 PM
Ohh ohh, what are mine?
You're misanthropic left with warmonger tendencies.
So, a neo-con. :lol:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2017, 06:24:31 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2017, 06:24:31 PM
That's pretty good. :)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ed Anger on May 05, 2017, 07:30:25 PM
Post by: Ed Anger on May 05, 2017, 07:30:25 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 04:58:44 PMQuote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:14 PM
Do you keep a file on everyone? :P
No, but I do note people's political opinions when they voice them.
WHAT'S MINE?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 08:40:20 PM
Post by: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 04:59:26 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 05, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
I don't know what this means. In any case my opposition to Le Pen has nothing to do with buzz words like 'fascist' but on basically everything she claims to stand for. She has a radical left wing economic agenda. Does that not bother you? You seem weirdly supportive of her, I know you are going full Cold War Democrat and all.
Equating opposition to idiocy like that as some kind of theatre is nonsense.
It's a line of argument from the alt-right that Spicy is repeating as part of his "I'm just trolling you, lol" persona.
No, I really really dislike antifa types.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on May 05, 2017, 08:51:11 PM
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on May 05, 2017, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 05, 2017, 05:09:54 PMQuote from: Jacob on May 05, 2017, 04:58:44 PMQuote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 02:34:14 PM
Do you keep a file on everyone? :P
No, but I do note people's political opinions when they voice them.
But I do. :ph34r:
I would like to file a FOIA request.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:13:23 AM
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:13:23 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 10:42:49 AMQuote from: Zoupa on May 04, 2017, 10:50:21 PM
Oh, I forgot, Macron comes from big finance too. Keep dancing to the tune, folks. Wouldn't want to see the strings making the puppet dance.
Really? The Rothschild global banking conspiracy is really still considered au courant in your circles?
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. I'm saying man is greedy and money talks. It's not a conspiracy to say that (almost) unbridled capitalism rules the globe, is it?
Corporations literally move mountains these days, much to the ecosystems' chagrin. I won't be voting for either of these clowns. Clocking out.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:14:51 AM
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:14:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2017, 10:46:16 AMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on May 05, 2017, 05:19:12 AM
He is Hollande 2.0. Gauche caviar/Champagne left at its worst, under a thin apolitical guise. Think of him as the perfect Martinus Left.
La peste et le choléra, Macron 2017 = Marine 2022 are perfectly plausible.
I guess you can figure what will be my vote now. :)
However, Russian financing of the FN, in the past at the very least, is well documented.
Right, on the one hand you have a pack of crypto-fascists in the pocket of a foreign dictator.
On the other hand you have a guy who said some nice things about Muslims.
So . . . it's team Swastika FTW!
Better Hitler than Blum right?
Did you really just compare Macron to Leon Blum? :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2017, 01:20:28 AM
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2017, 01:20:28 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:13:23 AM
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. I'm saying man is greedy and money talks. It's not a conspiracy to say that (almost) unbridled capitalism rules the globe, is it?
I would. It is pretty heavily regulated. Of course that very regulation also leads to lots of conspiracy theories. All those unelected bureaucrats destroying our freedom and such.
QuoteCorporations literally move mountains these days, much to the ecosystems' chagrin. I won't be voting for either of these clowns. Clocking out.
Ecosystems? Has Macron come out for dismantling environmental regulations now? Of course not. How idiotic. How many ecosystems is your cop out going to save Zoupa?
This is bizarre.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2017, 01:27:37 AM
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2017, 01:27:37 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:14:51 AM
Did you really just compare Macron to Leon Blum?
No. He compared fools of the 1930s to fools of today.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Words, positions and policy matter Valmy. I won't endorse Macron's.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Brain on May 06, 2017, 01:50:51 AM
Post by: The Brain on May 06, 2017, 01:50:51 AM
Jacob, do me!
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Tamas on May 06, 2017, 02:23:34 AM
Post by: Tamas on May 06, 2017, 02:23:34 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Words, positions and policy matter Valmy. I won't endorse Macron's.
When one of two candidates is a radical with a very dedicated group of supporters, every vote not cast on his/her opponent is a vote cast for him/her.
Please accept my advance congratulations in helping Le Pen destroy your country.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Tamas on May 06, 2017, 02:25:27 AM
Post by: Tamas on May 06, 2017, 02:25:27 AM
Oh, and Macron's party's e-mail server has been hacked and a trainload of e-mails made public an hour before the campaign silence period started.
Enjoy your Russian pro-consul, France.
Enjoy your Russian pro-consul, France.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: DGuller on May 06, 2017, 02:30:36 AM
Post by: DGuller on May 06, 2017, 02:30:36 AM
Putin doesn't even bother to keep it subtle, does he? And why should he? Intolerance is an even stronger emotion than patriotism, the intolerant filth will cooperate with him openly.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: crazy canuck on May 06, 2017, 08:23:50 AM
Post by: crazy canuck on May 06, 2017, 08:23:50 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 06, 2017, 01:50:51 AM
Jacob, do me!
In your dreams.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 09:01:43 AM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Words, positions and policy matter Valmy. I won't endorse Macron's.
Did you just go Bernie Bro on us?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on May 06, 2017, 10:28:40 AM
Post by: Oexmelin on May 06, 2017, 10:28:40 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Words, positions and policy matter Valmy. I won't endorse Macron's.
Why not vote for him, and then give him a leftist Assemblée Nationale after?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: DGuller on May 06, 2017, 11:28:02 AM
Post by: DGuller on May 06, 2017, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 09:01:43 AMWhen I see things like that, for a moment I think that people get what they deserve. Then I open Google News and go "Wait, I'm getting the same thing too. What the fuck did I do to deserve it?"Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Words, positions and policy matter Valmy. I won't endorse Macron's.
Did you just go Bernie Bro on us?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 06, 2017, 10:28:40 AMQuote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Words, positions and policy matter Valmy. I won't endorse Macron's.
Why not vote for him, and then give him a leftist Assemblée Nationale after?
Just came back from the most poorly organized voting booth EVAH. There are 100 000 French voters in Montreal, and ONE voting station. You can imagine the lines :glare:
So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 12:41:43 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 06, 2017, 11:28:02 AMQuote from: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 09:01:43 AMWhen I see things like that, for a moment I think that people get what they deserve. Then I open Google News and go "Wait, I'm getting the same thing too. What the fuck did I do to deserve it?"Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Words, positions and policy matter Valmy. I won't endorse Macron's.
Did you just go Bernie Bro on us?
Yeah, gotta love talking to people who went all suicide jihadist with their vote during the election with write-ins or 3rdparties or skipped it altogether "because bothof them are equally bad." And yet, here we both are.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 12:47:38 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 12:47:38 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
[So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
In elections like this, there is only one option: to do your duty as a citizen and human being by voting for the candidate most likely to prevent a real and existential threat from power.
Some other countries don't always see the big picture like that.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 06, 2017, 12:51:53 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 06, 2017, 12:51:53 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
Just came back from the most poorly organized voting booth EVAH. There are 100 000 French voters in Montreal, and ONE voting station. You can imagine the lines :glare:
So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
Polls only open for one day? No mail in ballots?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 06, 2017, 01:52:36 PM
Post by: derspiess on May 06, 2017, 01:52:36 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 12:47:38 PMQuote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
[So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
In elections like this, there is only one option: to do your duty as a citizen and human being by voting for the candidate most likely to prevent a real and existential threat from power.
Sounds like an endorsement of Le Pen.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 01:59:42 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2017, 01:59:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 06, 2017, 01:52:36 PM
Sounds like an endorsement of Le Pen.
You got the cock holster you wanted, derrussianfucker.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on May 06, 2017, 06:33:47 PM
Post by: Grallon on May 06, 2017, 06:33:47 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
Bite molle. <_<
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:07:42 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:07:42 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 05, 2017, 07:30:25 PM
WHAT'S MINE?
Zero calories right-wing flavoured troll.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ed Anger on May 06, 2017, 07:09:23 PM
Post by: Ed Anger on May 06, 2017, 07:09:23 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:07:42 PMQuote from: Ed Anger on May 05, 2017, 07:30:25 PM
WHAT'S MINE?
Zero calories right-wing flavoured troll.
:lol:
Zero calorie. I like that.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:15:07 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:15:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 06, 2017, 01:50:51 AM
Jacob, do me!
Elitist Swedish conservative affecting perpetual aristocratic disdain.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:15:50 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:15:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 06, 2017, 07:09:23 PMQuote from: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:07:42 PMQuote from: Ed Anger on May 05, 2017, 07:30:25 PM
WHAT'S MINE?
Zero calories right-wing flavoured troll.
:lol:
Zero calorie. I like that.
:hug:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 07:16:58 PM
Post by: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 07:16:58 PM
Quote from: Grallon on May 06, 2017, 06:33:47 PMQuote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
Bite molle. <_<
G.
Je n'ai jamais partagé ton adoration pour les fachos. Désolé.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:17:42 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:17:42 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 07:16:58 PMJe n'ai jamais partagé ton adoration pour les fachos. Désolé.
:hug:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2017, 09:14:28 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2017, 09:14:28 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PMQuote from: Oexmelin on May 06, 2017, 10:28:40 AMQuote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Words, positions and policy matter Valmy. I won't endorse Macron's.
Why not vote for him, and then give him a leftist Assemblée Nationale after?
Just came back from the most poorly organized voting booth EVAH. There are 100 000 French voters in Montreal, and ONE voting station. You can imagine the lines :glare:
So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
I am. You did the right thing. Hopefully next time you can vote for a candidate more to your liking.
Le FN ne passera pas
I know they day will come will I will have to vote for somebody more leftwing than I would like. Looking at you Bernie and your allies. But, you know, hold the line.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: DGuller on May 06, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Post by: DGuller on May 06, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Do me next!
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Razgovory on May 06, 2017, 11:02:24 PM
Post by: Razgovory on May 06, 2017, 11:02:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 06, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Do me next!
At least ask him to wear a condom first.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 07, 2017, 12:14:21 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 07, 2017, 12:14:21 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 06, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Do me next!
Fanatically center left.
I think I'll stick with "crypto-Christian fundamentalist" unless you can come up with something better.
Where has Neil been anyway? :hmm:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Brain on May 07, 2017, 01:31:29 AM
Post by: The Brain on May 07, 2017, 01:31:29 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 06, 2017, 07:15:07 PMQuote from: The Brain on May 06, 2017, 01:50:51 AM
Jacob, do me!
Elitist Swedish conservative affecting perpetual aristocratic disdain.
ty
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 07, 2017, 10:56:02 AM
Post by: Jacob on May 07, 2017, 10:56:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 08:40:20 PMNo, I really really dislike antifa types.
How come?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 07, 2017, 10:56:56 AM
Post by: Jacob on May 07, 2017, 10:56:56 AM
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 11:54:35 AM
Post by: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 11:54:35 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 07, 2017, 10:56:02 AMSame reason you dislike anti-Danish-Canadians.Quote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 08:40:20 PMNo, I really really dislike antifa types.
How come?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on May 07, 2017, 01:01:41 PM
Post by: Zanza on May 07, 2017, 01:01:41 PM
Macron it is! Vive la France! :frog:
(https://cdn.countryflags.com/thumbs/france/flag-heart-3d-250.png)
(https://cdn.countryflags.com/thumbs/france/flag-heart-3d-250.png)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Solmyr on May 07, 2017, 01:09:46 PM
Post by: Solmyr on May 07, 2017, 01:09:46 PM
:frog:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 01:11:36 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 01:11:36 PM
:)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on May 07, 2017, 01:26:11 PM
Post by: Josquius on May 07, 2017, 01:26:11 PM
So, what's next for the Russian trolls?
The British election obviously but after that?
The British election obviously but after that?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 01:27:30 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 01:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 07, 2017, 01:26:11 PM
So, what's next for the Russian trolls?
Germany.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: garbon on May 07, 2017, 01:28:31 PM
Post by: garbon on May 07, 2017, 01:28:31 PM
:cool:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Brain on May 07, 2017, 01:53:29 PM
Post by: The Brain on May 07, 2017, 01:53:29 PM
At least the UK doesn't have a glass ceiling.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: 11B4V on May 07, 2017, 02:04:12 PM
Post by: 11B4V on May 07, 2017, 02:04:12 PM
So who's winning?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: crazy canuck on May 07, 2017, 02:42:31 PM
Post by: crazy canuck on May 07, 2017, 02:42:31 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 07, 2017, 01:01:41 PM
Macron it is! Vive la France! :frog:
(https://cdn.countryflags.com/thumbs/france/flag-heart-3d-250.png)
:frog:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Solmyr on May 07, 2017, 02:44:29 PM
Post by: Solmyr on May 07, 2017, 02:44:29 PM
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18359200_1706746919618763_4047026330603536167_o.jpg?oh=f979d502d2d28678023977cb056e9759&oe=5974F924)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: 11B4V on May 07, 2017, 02:46:12 PM
Post by: 11B4V on May 07, 2017, 02:46:12 PM
France maintains sanity FTW. Congrats.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 02:58:07 PM
Post by: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 02:58:07 PM
How ironic that this time it was UK and US that got blitzed by the enemy and France is the one that held out for the time being.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on May 07, 2017, 02:59:01 PM
Post by: celedhring on May 07, 2017, 02:59:01 PM
I knew the French wouldn't give up the chance of coming out looking better than the anglosaxons for once.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 07, 2017, 03:00:47 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 07, 2017, 03:00:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 02:58:07 PM
How ironic that this time it was UK and US that got blitzed by the enemy and France is the one that held out for the time being.
Wether or not it's a Pyrrhic will depend on the elections for parliament and if Macron actually achieves anything. Remember: people thought Hollande would change stuff too, same for Sarko.
But at least it's a 5 years of Putin being baguette-blocked.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 03:02:58 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 03:02:58 PM
Quote from: celedhring on May 07, 2017, 02:59:01 PM
I knew the French wouldn't give up the chance of coming out looking better than the anglosaxons for once.
:lol:
Anyway, hooray for the Republic.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 07, 2017, 03:03:05 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 07, 2017, 03:03:05 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 07, 2017, 03:00:47 PMQuote from: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 02:58:07 PM
How ironic that this time it was UK and US that got blitzed by the enemy and France is the one that held out for the time being.
Wether or not it's a Pyrrhic will depend on the elections for parliament and if Macron actually achieves anything. Remember: people thought Hollande would change stuff too, same for Sarko.
But at least it's a 5 years of Putin being baguette-blocked.
Most people voted against Sarko, rather than for Hollande. DSK also managed to eliminate himself from the race with his trouble with his erotomania.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 03:04:41 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 03:04:41 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 07, 2017, 03:00:47 PM
Wether or not it's a Pyrrhic will depend on the elections for parliament and if Macron actually achieves anything. Remember: people thought Hollande would change stuff too, same for Sarko.
But at least it's a 5 years of Putin being baguette-blocked.
How does change factor in? Seems to me Macron ran on pretty much a status quo platform.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: garbon on May 07, 2017, 03:21:25 PM
Post by: garbon on May 07, 2017, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 03:04:41 PMQuote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 07, 2017, 03:00:47 PM
Wether or not it's a Pyrrhic will depend on the elections for parliament and if Macron actually achieves anything. Remember: people thought Hollande would change stuff too, same for Sarko.
But at least it's a 5 years of Putin being baguette-blocked.
How does change factor in? Seems to me Macron ran on pretty much a status quo platform.
Indeed, I don't think anyone was suggesting that Macron would change stuff. :huh:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: MadImmortalMan on May 07, 2017, 03:22:11 PM
Post by: MadImmortalMan on May 07, 2017, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 07, 2017, 10:56:02 AMQuote from: derspiess on May 05, 2017, 08:40:20 PMNo, I really really dislike antifa types.
How come?
You'd think he'd love them. I'm fairly convinced they are funded by right-wingers to make the left look bad.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on May 07, 2017, 03:32:57 PM
Post by: Grallon on May 07, 2017, 03:32:57 PM
So France will have 5 more years of sinking deeper into the swamp of mass immigration, multikulti indoctrination and globalist deconstruction of its national identity and cohesion.
And to think there are imbeciles who salute this as a victory. :rolleyes:
The only consolation is that when the pendulum swings back it will swing all the harder, hopefully crushing all the parasites in its wake.
G.
And to think there are imbeciles who salute this as a victory. :rolleyes:
The only consolation is that when the pendulum swings back it will swing all the harder, hopefully crushing all the parasites in its wake.
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 03:44:25 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 03:44:25 PM
Someone is not a fan of action movies.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 03:49:17 PM
Post by: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 03:49:17 PM
Quote from: Grallon on May 07, 2017, 03:32:57 PMWhat are your feelings about the election outcome?
So France will have 5 more years of sinking deeper into the swamp of mass immigration, multikulti indoctrination and globalist deconstruction of its national identity and cohesion.
And to think there are imbeciles who salute this as a victory. :rolleyes:
The only consolation is that when the pendulum swings back it will swing all the harder, hopefully crushing all the parasites in its wake.
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: garbon on May 07, 2017, 03:50:09 PM
Post by: garbon on May 07, 2017, 03:50:09 PM
Quote from: Grallon on May 07, 2017, 03:32:57 PM
And to think there are imbeciles who salute this as a victory. :rolleyes:
The only consolation is that when the pendulum swings back it will swing all the harder, hopefully crushing all the parasites in its wake.
G.
I'll be saying the same if France finally falls to Le Pen-like barbarism.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Maladict on May 07, 2017, 03:54:54 PM
Post by: Maladict on May 07, 2017, 03:54:54 PM
Well done Frenchies :frog:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zoupa on May 07, 2017, 03:58:32 PM
Post by: Zoupa on May 07, 2017, 03:58:32 PM
Yay. I'm overjoyed. :glare:
See you on June 11th, Macron.
See you on June 11th, Macron.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ancient Demon on May 07, 2017, 04:32:33 PM
Post by: Ancient Demon on May 07, 2017, 04:32:33 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdI1icMZ.gif&hash=dda50049dbee99c0f04245d023d7886c7da9b30e)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Ancient Demon on May 07, 2017, 04:41:32 PM
Post by: Ancient Demon on May 07, 2017, 04:41:32 PM
The results are about what I expected. It's hard to see this as anything but a delaying action though, as I don't see Macron being able to solve the problems in France, and I don't see the Muslim population there not growing ever larger and more belligerent under current policies.
FN got 17% in 2002, 35% in 2017; third time's the charm? I daresay they won't have to wait another 15 years to get to second round again.
FN got 17% in 2002, 35% in 2017; third time's the charm? I daresay they won't have to wait another 15 years to get to second round again.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grallon on May 07, 2017, 05:38:05 PM
Post by: Grallon on May 07, 2017, 05:38:05 PM
Quote from: Ancient Demon on May 07, 2017, 04:41:32 PM
The results are about what I expected. It's hard to see this as anything but a delaying action though, as I don't see Macron being able to solve the problems in France, and I don't see the Muslim population there not growing ever larger and more belligerent under current policies.
FN got 17% in 2002, 35% in 2017; third time's the charm? I daresay they won't have to wait another 15 years to get to second round again.
He's not there to solve any problems, he's been propped up to insure France becomes even weaker, even more incapable of resisting the globalist's agenda. He's their creature, their whore, bought and paid for.
As a matter of fact, in the wake of this election, I've been reading more and more comments coming from the usual leftist scumbags, to the effect that democracy should be limited to the 'right kind of people', i.e those who think like them, those who aren't 'deplorable'. Is it any wonder there is so much rage boiling under the surface?
G.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 05:50:58 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 05:50:58 PM
I'm sorry your fascist lost, grallon. :(
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
Post by: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
Who the fuck are the globalists? I see this word used a lot by FSB trolls and Alex Jones types, but I could never commit to killing my brain cells to find out more about them.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 06:02:13 PM
Post by: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 06:02:13 PM
The best way to fight the erosion of democracy is to elect a fascist. They make voting booths run on time.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 06:07:55 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 06:07:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
Who the fuck are the globalists? I see this word used a lot by FSB trolls and Alex Jones types, but I could never commit to killing my brain cells to find out more about them.
Jews.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 06:14:33 PM
Post by: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
Who the fuck are the globalists? I see this word used a lot by FSB trolls and Alex Jones types, but I could never commit to killing my brain cells to find out more about them.
Sarcasm aside, there are legitimate political grievances that can be directed against the so-called "winners" of globalization, a mobile elite of managers who, at the lower end, only see the wonderful cultural benefits of travel (and are often expats themselves) and can't possibly understand why the unwashed masses are so racists, and, at the upper end, actively lobby to decrease regulations to make capital increasingly mobile, and their own fortunes safe from tax, redistribution, or even, any hiccups of circumstances.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 06:19:55 PM
Post by: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 06:19:55 PM
Seen on Twitter:
"It's the first time in recorded history that a French President will speak better English than an American President"
"It's the first time in recorded history that a French President will speak better English than an American President"
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: PDH on May 07, 2017, 07:01:43 PM
Post by: PDH on May 07, 2017, 07:01:43 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 06:19:55 PM
Seen on Twitter:
"It's the first time in recorded history that a French President will speak better English than an American President"
Very low bar there...
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on May 07, 2017, 09:01:50 PM
Post by: Jacob on May 07, 2017, 09:01:50 PM
Also form somewhere else on the net:
"Can you hear the people sing?
This is the song of boring men.
He's a shady neoliberal,
But at least he's not Le Pen!"
"Can you hear the people sing?
This is the song of boring men.
He's a shady neoliberal,
But at least he's not Le Pen!"
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Monoriu on May 07, 2017, 09:42:34 PM
Post by: Monoriu on May 07, 2017, 09:42:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
Who the fuck are the globalists? I see this word used a lot by FSB trolls and Alex Jones types, but I could never commit to killing my brain cells to find out more about them.
I think it is all about who gets what. The winners and losers of globalisation. The people who are left behind will always invent theories to explain their situation, but none of these conspiracies really matter. I doubt they themselves even care about words. It is no use arguing with them, because the only thing they care about is that they are losing while other people are getting more. As long as that holds true, no amount of reasoning will work.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 09:47:26 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 09:47:26 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on May 07, 2017, 09:42:34 PMQuote from: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
Who the fuck are the globalists? I see this word used a lot by FSB trolls and Alex Jones types, but I could never commit to killing my brain cells to find out more about them.
I think it is all about who gets what. The winners and losers of globalisation. The people who are left behind will always invent theories to explain their situation, but none of these conspiracies really matter. I doubt they themselves even care about words. It is no use arguing with them, because the only thing they care about is that they are losing while other people are getting more. As long as that holds true, no amount of reasoning will work.
lol, says the globalization hive mind drone whore.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 09:58:30 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 09:58:30 PM
Are people who consume imported goods globalists? How about people who vacation overseas?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 07, 2017, 10:13:38 PM
Post by: derspiess on May 07, 2017, 10:13:38 PM
No.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 10:29:58 PM
Post by: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 10:29:58 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 09:58:30 PM
Are people who consume imported goods globalists? How about people who vacation overseas?
Were coal miners industrialists?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 10:36:20 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 10:36:20 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 10:29:58 PM
Were coal miners industrialists?
I don't see the connection.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2017, 11:06:52 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2017, 11:06:52 PM
Well it is a relief but not exactly a victory. Macron is in a very difficult position. I certainly do not envy him.
It is more like we survived to fight again another day.
It is more like we survived to fight again another day.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2017, 11:08:02 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2017, 11:08:02 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 07, 2017, 09:01:50 PM
Also form somewhere else on the net:
"Can you hear the people sing?
This is the song of boring men.
He's a shady neoliberal,
But at least he's not Le Pen!"
Yep. We are the evil corrupt ones now. No extreme rightist or leftist was ever corrupt! Elect them everything will be fine. There are absolutely no data points in the past contradicting this.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 07, 2017, 11:58:25 PM
Post by: derspiess on May 07, 2017, 11:58:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 07, 2017, 11:06:52 PM
Well it is a relief but not exactly a victory. Macron is in a very difficult position. I certainly do not envy him.
It is more like we survived to fight again another day.
We?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 08, 2017, 12:04:32 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 08, 2017, 12:04:32 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2017, 09:58:30 PM
Are people who consume imported goods globalists? How about people who vacation overseas?
I think the more important distinction is how one gets his money than how he spends it.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 12:23:39 AM
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 12:23:39 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 07, 2017, 11:58:25 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 07, 2017, 11:06:52 PM
Well it is a relief but not exactly a victory. Macron is in a very difficult position. I certainly do not envy him.
It is more like we survived to fight again another day.
We?
Whatever. People roughly politically aligned with the post-Cold War liberal order.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 08, 2017, 12:32:03 AM
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 08, 2017, 12:32:03 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 08, 2017, 12:04:32 AM
I think the more important distinction is how one gets his money than how he spends it.
Gotcha. So Timmy and Tamas are globalists because they work overseas? And I'm a globalist because I work for a British company in the US? And Billy Bob is a globalist because he assembles Mercedes in Kentucky?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 08, 2017, 12:52:45 AM
Post by: derspiess on May 08, 2017, 12:52:45 AM
No.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Monoriu on May 08, 2017, 12:52:55 AM
Post by: Monoriu on May 08, 2017, 12:52:55 AM
I consider myself a globalist because I support globalisation and free trade.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on May 08, 2017, 01:43:18 AM
Post by: Josquius on May 08, 2017, 01:43:18 AM
This fuss about globalisation is an amazing piece of misdirection.
I don't have the numbers to hand but Britain today manufacturers as many cars as when the car industry was at its peak as an employer.
Automation has massively reduced the amount of people needed for this however.
People always forget the customer creation side of globalisation too.
I don't have the numbers to hand but Britain today manufacturers as many cars as when the car industry was at its peak as an employer.
Automation has massively reduced the amount of people needed for this however.
People always forget the customer creation side of globalisation too.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Monoriu on May 08, 2017, 01:49:30 AM
Post by: Monoriu on May 08, 2017, 01:49:30 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 08, 2017, 01:43:18 AM
This fuss about globalisation is an amazing piece of misdirection.
I don't have the numbers to hand but Britain today manufacturers as many cars as when the car industry was at its peak as an employer.
Automation has massively reduced the amount of people needed for this however.
People always forget the customer creation side of globalisation too.
My bet is that automation kills at least as many jobs as globalisation, if not more. But the thing is, it is really hard to argue against technological progress. There are no good reasons to stop others from using computers, tablets, the internet, and robots etc. But globalisation can be interpreted as a policy choice, a conspiracy theory that benefits the few at the expense of the many. It is both an effective target, and a useful tool of blackmail. As in, if the haves aren't willing to share more of their wealth, the have-nots will kill globalisation via the electoral process. That's one of the few ways that the have-nots can make lives worse for the haves, and that's the lever they'll push.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Razgovory on May 08, 2017, 05:44:29 AM
Post by: Razgovory on May 08, 2017, 05:44:29 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 07, 2017, 06:07:55 PMQuote from: DGuller on May 07, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
Who the fuck are the globalists? I see this word used a lot by FSB trolls and Alex Jones types, but I could never commit to killing my brain cells to find out more about them.
Jews.
That's what I think of every time I hear globalist.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on May 08, 2017, 05:45:14 AM
Post by: Josquius on May 08, 2017, 05:45:14 AM
This is unfolding quite humorously. Not just the Internet trolls in tears but official accounts of farage, leave.eu and others.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Solmyr on May 08, 2017, 07:01:30 AM
Post by: Solmyr on May 08, 2017, 07:01:30 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 08, 2017, 05:45:14 AM
This is undoing quite humorously. Not just the Internet trolls in tears but official accounts of farage, leave.eu and others.
Reddit The_Donald is also melting down.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 08, 2017, 07:06:06 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 08, 2017, 07:06:06 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 08, 2017, 05:45:14 AMInternet trolls in tears
Pics or it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 08, 2017, 08:18:52 AM
Post by: derspiess on May 08, 2017, 08:18:52 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on May 08, 2017, 12:52:55 AM
I consider myself a globalist because I support globalisation and free trade.
I'm a big proponent of free trade but I do not consider myself a globalist. To me, globalism implies things like unlimited immigration and world governance-- not just free trade.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 08:22:46 AM
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 08:22:46 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2017, 08:18:52 AMQuote from: Monoriu on May 08, 2017, 12:52:55 AM
I consider myself a globalist because I support globalisation and free trade.
I'm a big proponent of free trade but I do not consider myself a globalist. To me, globalism implies things like unlimited immigration and world governance-- not just free trade.
Yet World Governance has weakened since 'globalization' has taken place though hasn't it? The United Nations has only gotten weaker and more irrelevant in the past few decades. As far as unlimited immigration globalization encourages economic development and lower birth rates abroad so actually reduces the pressure for immigration as indeed we are seeing dramatically in Mexico.
Globalization is, in my mind, an economic phenomenon. Sure some political things are of course required for free trade to work, of course, but those are negotiated between nations not through the UN or whatever.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2017, 09:07:26 AM
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2017, 09:07:26 AM
Lol , "World Governance". Foil, thy name is tin.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2017, 09:12:27 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2017, 09:12:27 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 07, 2017, 11:06:52 PM
Well it is a relief but not exactly a victory. Macron is in a very difficult position. I certainly do not envy him.
It is more like we survived to fight again another day.
You may be onto something:
Highest number ever of blank and null votes: 12% of cast votes. Highest abstention for a run-off: 25,3%
:whistle:
http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2017/05/07/presidentielle-un-record-de-bulletins-blancs-et-nuls_5123805_4355770.html (http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2017/05/07/presidentielle-un-record-de-bulletins-blancs-et-nuls_5123805_4355770.html)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 09:19:00 AM
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 09:19:00 AM
I am more surprised that does not happen more often given the way those elections are structured but yes I saw your post earlier.
France may yet get the centrally controlled five year plans and ethnic cleansing some its people desire.
France may yet get the centrally controlled five year plans and ethnic cleansing some its people desire.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2017, 09:25:20 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2017, 09:25:20 AM
French plans are or rather were indicative, not coercitive. :rolleyes:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planification_économique (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planification_%C3%A9conomique)
Emphasis mine.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planification_en_France (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planification_en_France)
Only ended in 2006, thought it was mostly renaming.
PS: last nitpicking, not necessarily five-year plans, four or three too.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planification_économique (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planification_%C3%A9conomique)
QuoteL'usage de plans quinquennaux, sous différentes formes, s'est aussi répandu dans les démocraties populaires et occidentales, dont la France, qui, via le Commissariat général du Plan, l'a utilisé jusqu'en 2005, ainsi que des pays comme le Canada ou le Maroc. Néanmoins, le système de planification du Commissariat Général du Plan était un système de planification économique indicative, et non coercitive comme c'était le cas en URSS.
Emphasis mine.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planification_en_France (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planification_en_France)
Only ended in 2006, thought it was mostly renaming.
PS: last nitpicking, not necessarily five-year plans, four or three too.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 09:26:56 AM
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 09:26:56 AM
Yes I didn't mean to imply they had the French Cheka shooting people in the back of the head Duque :P
Still doesn't mean they were a great idea.
Still doesn't mean they were a great idea.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2017, 09:30:02 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2017, 09:30:02 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 09:26:56 AM
Yes I didn't mean to imply they had the French Cheka shooting people in the back of the head Duque :P
Still doesn't mean they were a great idea.
Why not? Louis Aragon, a great French poet, wrote a poem glorifying the G.P.U. (written in French Guépéou).
I'd rather have indicative or rather incitative four-year plans (if five is too stalinist)!
QuoteIl nous faut un Guépéou par Louis ARAGON (1931)
Extrait du poème : Prélude au temps des cerises
Je chante le Guépéou qui se forme
En France à l'heure qu'il est
Je chante le Guépéou nécessaire de France
Je chante les Guépéous de nulle part et de partout
Je demande un Guépéou pour préparer la fin d'un monde
Demandez un Guépéou pour préparer la fin d'un monde
Pour défendre ceux qui sont trahis
Pour défendre ceux qui sont toujours trahis
Demandez un Guépéou vous qu'on plie et vous qu'on tue
Demandez un Guépéou
Il vous faut un Guépéou
Vive le Guépéou figure dialectique de l'héroïsme
qu'on peut opposer à cette image imbécile des aviateurs
tenus par les imbéciles pour des héros quand ils se foutent
la gueule par terre
Vive le Guépéou véritable image de la grandeur matérialiste Vive le Guépéou contre dieu Chiappe et la «Marseillaise»
Vive le Guépéou contre le pape et les poux Vive le Guépéou contre la résignation des banques Vive le Guépéou contre les manœuvres de l'Est Vive le Guépéou contre la famille
Vive le Guépéou contre les lois scélérates
Vive Guépéou contre le socialisme des assassins du type
Caballero Boncour Mac Donald Zœrgibel
Vive le Guépéou contre tous les ennemis du Prolétariat
VIVE LE GUÉPÉOU
https://www.marxists.org/francais/malaquais/works/1947/02/patriote.htm
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 09:31:38 AM
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 09:31:38 AM
Ok that was beautiful. You may be winning me over here.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2017, 09:40:39 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2017, 09:40:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 09:31:38 AM
Ok that was beautiful.
I don't believe that was his best poem but to each his own.
Maybe "L'avenir de l'homme est la femme" in Le Fou d'Elsa. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Fou_d%27Elsa (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Fou_d%27Elsa)
However, he did not live by that verse or poem by the end of his life. :P
Quote
You may be winning me over here.
En marche !
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on May 08, 2017, 09:41:20 AM
Post by: Josquius on May 08, 2017, 09:41:20 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 08, 2017, 07:06:06 AMQuote from: Tyr on May 08, 2017, 05:45:14 AMInternet trolls in tears
Pics or it didn't happen.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/colin-johnson-refund_uk_59105ff3e4b0104c73505cf5?uwf
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: grumbler on May 08, 2017, 10:26:55 AM
Post by: grumbler on May 08, 2017, 10:26:55 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 08, 2017, 09:41:20 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/colin-johnson-refund_uk_59105ff3e4b0104c73505cf5?uwf
Who stays logged on to betting sites?
Sounds like a welsher to me.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: derspiess on May 08, 2017, 10:31:24 AM
Post by: derspiess on May 08, 2017, 10:31:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 08:22:46 AM
Globalization is, in my mind, an economic phenomenon. Sure some political things are of course required for free trade to work, of course, but those are negotiated between nations not through the UN or whatever.
Sure, but I thought we were talking about globalism.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: grumbler on May 08, 2017, 12:04:20 PM
Post by: grumbler on May 08, 2017, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2017, 10:31:24 AMQuote from: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 08:22:46 AM
Globalization is, in my mind, an economic phenomenon. Sure some political things are of course required for free trade to work, of course, but those are negotiated between nations not through the UN or whatever.
Sure, but I thought we were talking about globalism.
Agree that globalization and globalism should be considered different things, but they are pretty much used interchangeably except by the far right, where globalism is a tinfoil-hat theory about plots to create a world government. On the far left, the tinfoil-hat theory is about "multinationals" taking control of the world, which I'd argue should be considered another "globalism" belief.
Globalism should properly be the belief that there are issues best dealt with on a global basis, but people seem to use globalization for that.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 12:07:42 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 12:07:42 PM
Yeah I was not aware they were different things since the terms are used so interchangeably.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on May 08, 2017, 12:10:21 PM
Post by: Zanza on May 08, 2017, 12:10:21 PM
Globalization is just an observable economic fact, whereas Globalism is a supposedly existing ideology to further this development, typically to the detriment of some kind of national entity.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 08, 2017, 12:12:04 PM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 08, 2017, 12:12:04 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
Good man.
Being part of a democracy that has FPTP or two-person run-offs means learning to hold one's nose while pulling the lever.
The difference between the lesser and worse of 2 evils can be as great as the difference between good and evil
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Malthus on May 08, 2017, 12:18:24 PM
Post by: Malthus on May 08, 2017, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 08, 2017, 12:12:04 PMQuote from: Zoupa on May 06, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
So yeah. Voted Macron in the end :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: God this feeling sucks.
Hope you fuckers are happy. :P
Good man.
Being part of a democracy that has FPTP or two-person run-offs means learning to hold one's nose while pulling the lever.
The difference between the lesser and worse of 2 evils can be as great as the difference between good and evil
Reminds me of the popular bumper sticker in the Edwards vs. Duke election, where the notoriously corrupt Edwards was up against the neo-Nazi David Duke:
"Vote For the Crook. It's Important."
:lol:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Edwards#Second_comeback:_Edwards_vs._Duke.2C_1991
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 08, 2017, 12:19:27 PM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 08, 2017, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2017, 09:07:26 AM
Lol , "World Governance". Foil, thy name is tin.
HELP! GEORGE SOROS IS COMING TO GET MY GUNS!!!
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on May 08, 2017, 12:46:48 PM
Post by: Zanza on May 08, 2017, 12:46:48 PM
(https://i.redd.it/lzzdn1fx0bwy.jpg)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 12:48:25 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 12:48:25 PM
For once anyway. They had a good run.
When is the next big election?
When is the next big election?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grey Fox on May 08, 2017, 01:03:49 PM
Post by: Grey Fox on May 08, 2017, 01:03:49 PM
UK in a month.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on May 08, 2017, 01:06:39 PM
Post by: Zanza on May 08, 2017, 01:06:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 12:48:25 PMI'll take what I can get. One election at a time.
For once anyway. They had a good run.
When is the next big election?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 01:11:26 PM
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2017, 01:11:26 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 08, 2017, 01:03:49 PM
UK in a month.
Oh right. Well barring the biggest scandal since our President got a blowjob in the White House I think the Tories are going to win big.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on May 09, 2017, 03:14:44 AM
Post by: Josquius on May 09, 2017, 03:14:44 AM
Well that's odd. The markets seem unhappy about the result. The euro is losing ground :hmm:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on May 09, 2017, 03:23:03 AM
Post by: celedhring on May 09, 2017, 03:23:03 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 09, 2017, 03:14:44 AM
Well that's odd. The markets seem unhappy about the result. The euro is losing ground :hmm:
You really need to stop paying so much attention to day to day currency trading.
The euro was trading high these months without not that much reason for it, it will slide slowly unless there's a change in the fundamentals. Whatever effect Macron might have had was already priced in since it's been clear for a while that he was carrying this one.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on May 09, 2017, 03:43:57 AM
Post by: Josquius on May 09, 2017, 03:43:57 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 09, 2017, 03:23:03 AMBrexit and Trump were two pretty good reasons.Quote from: Tyr on May 09, 2017, 03:14:44 AM
Well that's odd. The markets seem unhappy about the result. The euro is losing ground :hmm:
You really need to stop paying so much attention to day to day currency trading.
The euro was trading high these months without not that much reason for it, it will slide slowly unless there's a change in the fundamentals. Whatever effect Macron might have had was already priced in since it's been clear for a while that he was carrying this one.
Europe was also posting pretty solid growth numbers, confirming even more that the euro zone crisis is over.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 09, 2017, 07:17:27 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 09, 2017, 07:17:27 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 09, 2017, 03:43:57 AMQuote from: celedhring on May 09, 2017, 03:23:03 AMQuote from: Tyr on May 09, 2017, 03:14:44 AM
Well that's odd. The markets seem unhappy about the result. The euro is losing ground :hmm:
You really need to stop paying so much attention to day to day currency trading.
The euro was trading high these months without not that much reason for it, it will slide slowly unless there's a change in the fundamentals. Whatever effect Macron might have had was already priced in since it's been clear for a while that he was carrying this one.
Brexit and Trump were two pretty good reasons.
Europe was also posting pretty solid growth numbers, confirming even more that the euro zone crisis is over.
Macron also means hard Brexit.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on May 09, 2017, 07:40:54 AM
Post by: celedhring on May 09, 2017, 07:40:54 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 09, 2017, 03:43:57 AMQuote from: celedhring on May 09, 2017, 03:23:03 AMBrexit and Trump were two pretty good reasons.Quote from: Tyr on May 09, 2017, 03:14:44 AM
Well that's odd. The markets seem unhappy about the result. The euro is losing ground :hmm:
You really need to stop paying so much attention to day to day currency trading.
The euro was trading high these months without not that much reason for it, it will slide slowly unless there's a change in the fundamentals. Whatever effect Macron might have had was already priced in since it's been clear for a while that he was carrying this one.
Europe was also posting pretty solid growth numbers, confirming even more that the euro zone crisis is over.
And those two were just short term reactions, while we await the exact consequences of those votes, which will still take some time.
Fact is that the ECB is still at 0%, while the Fed is raising rates. Heck, if the US Congress passes a border adjustment tax as part of Trump's tax reform, the dollar will appreciate significantly.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: MadImmortalMan on May 10, 2017, 01:42:03 AM
Post by: MadImmortalMan on May 10, 2017, 01:42:03 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 07, 2017, 06:19:55 PM
Seen on Twitter:
"It's the first time in recorded history that a French President will speak better English than an American President"
The state of world English has gotten so bad that I frankly don't think it can go back.
Using "grow" as a transitive verb. (Growing the economy is like learning your son to read.)
Gender to refer to people rather than words.
Hell, when I was a kid, people didn't pronounce the "t" in often.
Crazy, right? :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 10, 2017, 05:48:57 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 10, 2017, 05:48:57 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 10, 2017, 01:42:03 AM
Hell, when I was a kid, people didn't pronounce the "t" in often.
I blame that Dishwalla song.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2017, 07:56:10 AM
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2017, 07:56:10 AM
Hey Macron haters - want to trade?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on June 02, 2017, 07:59:57 AM
Post by: celedhring on June 02, 2017, 07:59:57 AM
Seems his makeshift party is polling quite well for next the June 8th legislative elections. We can use non-crazy stable governments in France and Germany by the end of the year, given how things are turning out in the anglo world.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on June 02, 2017, 08:16:41 AM
Post by: Zanza on June 02, 2017, 08:16:41 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2017, 07:56:10 AMHe speaks better English than The Donald, too.
Hey Macron haters - want to trade?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on June 06, 2017, 01:31:59 PM
Post by: Zanza on June 06, 2017, 01:31:59 PM
QuoteFrance's Macron set for biggest majority since De Gaulle: poll
Emmanuel Macron's party is set to win the biggest parliamentary majority for a French president since Charles de Gaulle's 1968 landslide, a survey of voter intentions for the coming legislative elections showed on Tuesday.
Such a majority would give Macron's government a strong mandate to push ahead with economic reforms, starting with a pro-business overhaul of France's labor code, a notoriously difficult area of policy to agree with trade unions.
Macron's centrist Republic On The Move (LREM) party, which launched in April last year and has revolutionized the French political scene, was seen scoring 29.5 percent of the vote in the June 11 first round, the Ipsos Sopra-Steria poll found.
With a solid lead ahead of other parties, LREM would go on to win 385-415 seats out of 577 in the lower house of parliament in a June 18 second round of voting, the poll showed.
The projected majority fits with a Cevipof survey for Le Monde on Friday, and would be the strongest since voters rallied behind former president and wartime hero De Gaulle in 1968 after student revolts and nationwide general strikes.
The conservative Republicans and their allies were seen at 23 percent, with the National Front on 17 percent, the hard-left France Unbowed 12.5 percent and the Socialists 8.5 percent.
LREM's first round lead has narrowed from 31 percent the last time the poll was conducted a week ago after Macron's former campaign chief - now a cabinet minister - came under investigation for past financial dealings.
The investigation into the activities of Richard Ferrand took a new turn on Tuesday as a media report said investigators had raided a business headquarters linked to their inquiries.
But that has so far done little to dent Macron's popularity after he beat the National Front's leader Marine Le Pen. Sixty percent of those surveyed said they were satisfied with Macron.
And, after the first round eliminates any candidate who gathers less than 12.5 percent of the vote, Macron's candidates will be strongly placed across the country to win the decisive second round, pollsters say.
In the second round, the poll projected that The Republicans party would win just 105-125 seats in parliament, the Socialists 25-35 seats, France Unbowed 12-22 seats and the National Front 5-15 seats.
The poll, conducted on June 2-4 for France Televisions and radiofrance with a sample of 2,103 people, also found that 68 percent of those surveyed had definitely made up their minds about whom they would vote for.
That rose to 75 percent for those backing Macron's party.
Vive la France! Vive la République! :frog:
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-04/24/12/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-02/sub-buzz-29144-1493051733-11.jpg)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Jacob on June 06, 2017, 02:01:54 PM
Post by: Jacob on June 06, 2017, 02:01:54 PM
Don't count your heads before the guillotine blade has dropped.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 06, 2017, 02:14:05 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 06, 2017, 02:14:05 PM
There is always a honeymoon after the presidential election though. Even Hollande had one of sorts.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on June 06, 2017, 04:44:39 PM
Post by: celedhring on June 06, 2017, 04:44:39 PM
Plus getting in a few digs against an unpopular US president always goes down well in France, I suppose.
To be frank, the moment I saw that Marine would never win (I'm sure others saw it earlier, but after Trump and Brexit you couldn't be sure anymore), was when Trump backed her. French nationalism and cozying up to the US seem pretty antagonistic to me. :hmm:
To be frank, the moment I saw that Marine would never win (I'm sure others saw it earlier, but after Trump and Brexit you couldn't be sure anymore), was when Trump backed her. French nationalism and cozying up to the US seem pretty antagonistic to me. :hmm:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2017, 06:12:27 PM
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2017, 06:12:27 PM
I think the French are just happy to be allied with Germany and other continental Euros and becoming less and less dependent on the untrustworthy anglo-saxon nations. Threatening to peel the French away and tie them back to the US and Britain is not likely to over well.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on June 06, 2017, 07:45:32 PM
Post by: Oexmelin on June 06, 2017, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on June 06, 2017, 04:44:39 PM
To be frank, the moment I saw that Marine would never win (I'm sure others saw it earlier, but after Trump and Brexit you couldn't be sure anymore), was when Trump backed her. French nationalism and cozying up to the US seem pretty antagonistic to me. :hmm:
I don't know that this kind of thinking works anymore.
See: Support for Russia, US.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 PM
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 PM
Macron is officially a badass, IMHO. Drove to the hoop, and dunked on Putin in his :face:
:frog: Fuck yeah
:frog: Fuck yeah
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on June 11, 2017, 09:01:06 AM
Post by: Zanza on June 11, 2017, 09:01:06 AM
First round of the elections for the lower house of parliament is on. At noon, turnout was lower than five years ago.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 11, 2017, 05:23:30 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 11, 2017, 05:23:30 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 11, 2017, 09:01:06 AM
First round of the elections for the lower house of parliament is on. At noon, turnout was lower than five years ago.
This is true, but lacks context. It's the lowest turnout ever.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2017, 10:54:51 PM
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2017, 10:54:51 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 11, 2017, 05:23:30 PMQuote from: Zanza on June 11, 2017, 09:01:06 AM
First round of the elections for the lower house of parliament is on. At noon, turnout was lower than five years ago.
This is true, but lacks context. It's the lowest turnout ever.
Ok. What is the context then? If you were in favor of Macron then you would show up to vote for him. If you hated Macron you would show up to vote against him. If you don't show up at all what are you voting for?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 02:36:49 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 02:36:49 AM
More than 50 % of abstention, the Fifth republic's record, not just after noon, means a not so great support for Macron after all, who was only elected thanks to the FN.
People here are also bored after one year of campaigning.
PS is nearly dead, LR is in dire straits, Mélenchon's islamo-bobo coalition is not doing great but could replace the PS, FN will not be repeating presidential scores.
People here are also bored after one year of campaigning.
PS is nearly dead, LR is in dire straits, Mélenchon's islamo-bobo coalition is not doing great but could replace the PS, FN will not be repeating presidential scores.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on June 12, 2017, 02:42:04 AM
Post by: celedhring on June 12, 2017, 02:42:04 AM
It seems a bit much to schedule one general election just a few weeks after a presidential one. Is that a common ocurrence in France?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 03:01:03 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 03:01:03 AM
Legislative elections after the presidential elections is the rule since Sarkozy. Previously, it was the other way.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Maladict on June 12, 2017, 03:38:43 AM
Post by: Maladict on June 12, 2017, 03:38:43 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 03:01:03 AM
Legislative elections after the presidential elections is the rule since Sarkozy. Previously, it was the other way.
Why not just do it on the same day? Especially with two rounds for each, no wonder voters get tired of it.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 03:56:39 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 03:56:39 AM
I have been thinking about it lately, but it's a political tradition, one that is really hard to get rid of it.
This is not even mentioned in the public debate, so good luck implementing it.
PS: elections that will go the way of the dodo will be the primary elections. That's why the campaign started so early.
This is not even mentioned in the public debate, so good luck implementing it.
PS: elections that will go the way of the dodo will be the primary elections. That's why the campaign started so early.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: mongers on June 12, 2017, 07:28:46 AM
Post by: mongers on June 12, 2017, 07:28:46 AM
Is this more of a political earthquake than our general election result*?
* Perhaps best described as a bloody nose inflicted on an arrogant politician.
* Perhaps best described as a bloody nose inflicted on an arrogant politician.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on June 12, 2017, 11:25:02 AM
Post by: Josquius on June 12, 2017, 11:25:02 AM
My theory :many voted for the macron party in part out of a wish to support the underdog and ensure he has some support.
That he won so many first round votes will make many people vote different in the second.
That he won so many first round votes will make many people vote different in the second.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on June 12, 2017, 11:30:35 AM
Post by: Zanza on June 12, 2017, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: mongers on June 12, 2017, 07:28:46 AMYour election result was a huge gain for both established parties, whereas in France the PS is all but wiped out and the Republicans are severely weakened. So if Macron really wins a landslide not seen since De Gaulle it can have profound effects on the Fifth Republic. It's party landscape is shattered.
Is this more of a political earthquake than our general election result*?
* Perhaps best described as a bloody nose inflicted on an arrogant politician.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 11:51:17 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: Tyr on June 12, 2017, 11:25:02 AM
My theory :many voted for the macron party in part out of a wish to support the underdog and ensure he has some support.
That he won so many first round votes will make many people vote different in the second.
Macron's party, media darling, underdog? :lmfao: I know he presented himself as revolutionary, with his own kind of populism (not right wing nor left wing) but come on.
Even very bourgeois areas in West Paris are pro-Macron, as if the conservatives there were some kind of leftists. :D
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on June 12, 2017, 12:17:18 PM
Post by: Zanza on June 12, 2017, 12:17:18 PM
It's an interesting strategy though: running as a centrist "revolutionary" candidate with a considerable establishment pedigree that can still claim not to be part of either of the two establishment parties. I can see that having appeal elsewhere, e.g. Austria or Germany.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 12, 2017, 01:06:53 PM
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 12, 2017, 01:06:53 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 12, 2017, 11:30:35 AMQuote from: mongers on June 12, 2017, 07:28:46 AMYour election result was a huge gain for both established parties, whereas in France the PS is all but wiped out and the Republicans are severely weakened. So if Macron really wins a landslide not seen since De Gaulle it can have profound effects on the Fifth Republic. It's party landscape is shattered.
Is this more of a political earthquake than our general election result*?
* Perhaps best described as a bloody nose inflicted on an arrogant politician.
maybe, maybe not. Much will depend on what he does and how he does it. How many general strikes of the teachers (to name one) is will to live with?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:13:11 PM
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2017, 02:36:49 AM
More than 50 % of abstention, the Fifth republic's record, not just after noon, means a not so great support for Macron after all, who was only elected thanks to the FN.
That's stupid. If you do not support Macron, not voting is almost as good as vote for him.
If he was only elected because of the FN who was the real winner? Is three elections where you get the most votes not enough? Do you want four or five to determine the true winner? Call me old fashioned but I thought getting the most votes meant you were elected because you had the most support.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:21:00 PM
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:21:00 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 12, 2017, 01:06:53 PM
maybe, maybe not. Much will depend on what he does and how he does it. How many general strikes of the teachers (to name one) is will to live with?
Well to be fair if you live in France you will have to be willing to live with several. :P
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on June 12, 2017, 01:44:30 PM
Post by: Oexmelin on June 12, 2017, 01:44:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:13:11 PMIf he was only elected because of the FN who was the real winner? Is three elections where you get the most votes not enough? Do you want four or five to determine the true winner? Call me old fashioned but I thought getting the most votes meant you were elected because you had the most support.
It has nothing to do with being old fashioned, and everything to do with diverging conception of voting, its significance, and the most appropriate mechanic required to obtain what is considered a legitimate democratic outcome. Case in point: American electoral college.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:46:22 PM
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:46:22 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 12, 2017, 01:44:30 PMQuote from: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:13:11 PMIf he was only elected because of the FN who was the real winner? Is three elections where you get the most votes not enough? Do you want four or five to determine the true winner? Call me old fashioned but I thought getting the most votes meant you were elected because you had the most support.
It has nothing to do with being old fashioned, and everything to do with diverging conception of voting, its significance, and the most appropriate mechanic required to obtain what is considered a legitimate democratic outcome. Case in point: American electoral college.
Yes. But in two of those elections all the other parties were included and Macron's party got the most votes. That seems like it had more to do than just the FN.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Oexmelin on June 12, 2017, 01:56:30 PM
Post by: Oexmelin on June 12, 2017, 01:56:30 PM
What Duque means, is that the presence of the FN made Macron the default choice for many Frenchmen, more out of desire to keep the FN out, than out of a true belief in Macron's policy. It brought Macron to the presidency, and Macron's presidency in turn gave an incentive to give him a National Assembly with which he could work, hence the votes for his hastily assembled party. The lesser of many evils, compounded.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 05:14:35 PM
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 05:14:35 PM
Politics and government are usually about the lesser evil. Otherwise the 'do goodstuff party' would always win. Also why it is easy to demonize politicians.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2017, 02:40:42 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2017, 02:40:42 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 12, 2017, 01:06:53 PMQuote from: Zanza on June 12, 2017, 11:30:35 AMQuote from: mongers on June 12, 2017, 07:28:46 AMYour election result was a huge gain for both established parties, whereas in France the PS is all but wiped out and the Republicans are severely weakened. So if Macron really wins a landslide not seen since De Gaulle it can have profound effects on the Fifth Republic. It's party landscape is shattered.
Is this more of a political earthquake than our general election result*?
* Perhaps best described as a bloody nose inflicted on an arrogant politician.
maybe, maybe not. Much will depend on what he does and how he does it. How many general strikes of the teachers (to name one) is will to live with?
Teachers should be pleased with him for now since he has promised to reverse a stupid reform i.e anti humanities (Latin and Ancient Greek) and anti foreign languages (German and bilingual classes) since those are elitist. There is little political capital to spend to keep this promise, and it will benefit his popularity. Of course, this only one of many...
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on June 13, 2017, 02:43:41 PM
Post by: Zanza on June 13, 2017, 02:43:41 PM
I read that he'll make the state of emergency measures that limit the human right protections of all French permanent in an ordinary law. :yucky:
Let's hope that his probable huge majority does not make him too authoritarian. That risk exists with every poltician, especially one that has virtually no checks and balances. He holds a lot of promise, especially in European policy, but let's see how he actually does once the national assembly is elected.
Let's hope that his probable huge majority does not make him too authoritarian. That risk exists with every poltician, especially one that has virtually no checks and balances. He holds a lot of promise, especially in European policy, but let's see how he actually does once the national assembly is elected.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:02:53 PM
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:02:53 PM
Oh dear. Not a good way to start Macron. Hopefully that is untrue.
Or maybe I just do not understand what exactly that means? What is 'ordinary law'? And what would be the hypothetical purpose of doing so?
Or maybe I just do not understand what exactly that means? What is 'ordinary law'? And what would be the hypothetical purpose of doing so?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on June 13, 2017, 03:06:01 PM
Post by: Zanza on June 13, 2017, 03:06:01 PM
Think of it as a French Patriot Act.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:06:36 PM
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:06:36 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 13, 2017, 03:06:01 PM
Think of it as a French Patriot Act.
For what purpose? Security?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2017, 03:08:51 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2017, 03:08:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:06:36 PMQuote from: Zanza on June 13, 2017, 03:06:01 PM
Think of it as a French Patriot Act.
For what purpose? Security?
Fight against terrorism to be precise, but I believe you had understood anyways.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:13:41 PM
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:13:41 PM
I figured but thank you for confirming.
Well shit.
Well shit.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Josquius on June 18, 2017, 01:10:49 PM
Post by: Josquius on June 18, 2017, 01:10:49 PM
Reading about Macron's rise I'm seeing a lot of Design Thinking methodology in practice.
Has anyone seen any pieces about this?
Has anyone seen any pieces about this?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Zanza on June 18, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
Post by: Zanza on June 18, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
So he won a massive majority, between 325-425 of 570 seats.
Now he has to deliver those economic reforms.
Now he has to deliver those economic reforms.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Tamas on June 18, 2017, 02:36:05 PM
Post by: Tamas on June 18, 2017, 02:36:05 PM
I think Europe and the world very much needed somebody to win on such a positive, modernist message.
If he fails to deliver it will be a huge blow to the forces of progress.
If he fails to deliver it will be a huge blow to the forces of progress.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Maladict on June 18, 2017, 03:33:15 PM
Post by: Maladict on June 18, 2017, 03:33:15 PM
I for one welcome my new Franco-German overlords.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: celedhring on June 18, 2017, 03:52:26 PM
Post by: celedhring on June 18, 2017, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 18, 2017, 03:33:15 PM
I for one welcome my new Franco-German overlords.
New? Hasn't it been kinda like that for you lot since we left?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Maladict on June 18, 2017, 03:58:45 PM
Post by: Maladict on June 18, 2017, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: celedhring on June 18, 2017, 03:52:26 PMQuote from: Maladict on June 18, 2017, 03:33:15 PM
I for one welcome my new Franco-German overlords.
New? Hasn't it been kinda like that for you lot since we left?
You mean since we bankrupted you lot and kicked you out? :P
The UK actually was our biggest ally in the EU, diplomats are frantically trying to make new friends.
But given the UK and US silliness I don't mind the current setup.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 18, 2017, 04:21:42 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 18, 2017, 04:21:42 PM
^_^ How many more centuries until the rest of the world can joke about slaughtering each other?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 20, 2017, 09:48:57 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 20, 2017, 09:48:57 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 18, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
So he won a massive majority, between 325-425 of 570 seats.
Now he has to deliver those economic reforms.
Record low-turnout again, FN has 8 députés ( a record given the election mode). PS share divided by 10 (!),
It's a great victory, but less than expected after the first round.
Majority is 289 seats, LREM (Macron's movement) got by itself 308 plus its official Modem (Centre) allies 42.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on June 20, 2017, 09:54:40 AM
Post by: Valmy on June 20, 2017, 09:54:40 AM
It is sufficient a mandate for Macron to have his chance.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: mongers on June 30, 2017, 05:15:48 PM
Post by: mongers on June 30, 2017, 05:15:48 PM
Couldn't find Daque's French politics thread, so thought I'd post this here:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDl5BRZXgAA2iYi.jpg)
It is after all rather French and cool, even allowing for the early 70s clothes styles. :cool:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDl5BRZXgAA2iYi.jpg)
It is after all rather French and cool, even allowing for the early 70s clothes styles. :cool:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Grey Fox on June 30, 2017, 07:27:30 PM
Post by: Grey Fox on June 30, 2017, 07:27:30 PM
Simone Veil died today :( RIP, Lady.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 02, 2017, 01:32:47 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 02, 2017, 01:32:47 PM
RIP
/French Comte de l'Argent mode
Youths won't be able to understand this one:
Giscard dort, Simone Veil.
/French Comte de l'Argent mode
Youths won't be able to understand this one:
Giscard dort, Simone Veil.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2017, 04:30:49 AM
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2017, 04:30:49 AM
All hail Jupiter? :unsure:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-politics-idUSKBN19O1AN
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-politics-idUSKBN19O1AN
QuoteBy Ingrid Melander and Michel Rose | VERSAILLES/PARIS, France
France's new president, Emmanuel Macron, told parliament in a ceremonial address on Monday that he would seek direct approval from voters in a referendum if parliament failed to sign off his intended institutional reforms quickly enough.
Elected only two months ago by a hefty majority, Macron told the lawmakers of both houses, summoned especially to the Palace of Versailles, that he wanted to cut the number of lawmakers by a third, curb the executive's role in naming magistrates, and introduce a "dose" of proportional representation.
Macron's upstart Republic on the Move (LREM) party has secured a comfortable majority in the National Assembly - but France's youngest leader since Napoleon made clear his impatience to complete the reshaping of the political landscape that he has begun.
"The French people are not driven by patient curiosity, but by an uncompromising demand. It is a profound transformation that they expect," Macron told the specially convened joint session of parliament.
"I want all these deep reforms that our institutions seriously need to be done within a year. These reforms will go to parliament but, if necessary, I will put them to voters in a referendum."
Macron also pressed his case for reform of Europe.
An ardent advocate of deeper European Union integration who put reviving Europe's Franco-German axis and treaty reform at the center of his presidential campaign, Macron said excessive bureaucracy had fueled euroskepticism among the public.
"The last 10 years have been cruel for Europe. We have managed crises but we have lost our way," Macron said.
"I firmly believe in Europe, but I don't find this scepticism unjustified."
Macron, whose centrist platform has routed both the traditional rightist and leftist parties of government, is not the first French leader to convene a so-called Congress of both houses, though past presidents have tended to use it in times of crisis or for constitutional reforms.
Macron's aides had said that, by bringing parliament's 925 lawmakers to the 17th century palace built outside Paris by Louis XIV - the 'Sun King' - the president was seeking to restore old-fashioned grandeur to the role.
"JUPITERIAN" PRESIDENT
Macron himself has said he plans a "Jupiterian" presidency - as a remote, dignified figure, like the Roman god of gods, who weighs his rare pronouncements carefully. It would be a marked break from his unpopular and often-mocked predecessor Francois Hollande's man-of-the-people style.
While many in France still hold dear the trappings of presidential power, Macron's style has grated with others who lament the strong powers that the constitution drawn up by the war hero Charles de Gaulle bestows on the presidency.
A commanding parliament majority, including dozens of legislators who are new to politics, has tightened Macron's grip further still.
Nonetheless, his opponents said his address was light on details.
"We're none the wiser coming out than we were going in," said far-right leader Marine Le Pen, who Macron defeated in the presidential run-off vote. "He speaks of a dose of proportional representation, but we don't know if he's talking about a small dose or a big dose."
Le Pen blames France's electoral system for her National Front party's poor representation in parliament.
Beyond the plans for institutional reform, which had been outlined in his campaign manifesto, there were few concrete announcements and no specifics on the far more controversial measures that he plans, most notably in liberalizing a highly regulated labor market.
Many of those were likely to be sketched out by Macron's prime minister, Edouard Philippe, when he addresses parliament on Tuesday.
Opposition lawmakers from three parties including the far-left France Unbowed boycotted Macron's address, and about 100 Communists wearing the red caps of the French revolutionaries of 1789 demonstrated in front of Versailles' town hall.
"Mr Macron is a challenge to democracy," said Nicole Coulbaut, a 65-year old retired teacher and Communist activist. "For him, it's not parliament or the people who govern, but himself, Jupiter."
(Editing by Kevin Liffey and Toby Chopra)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2017, 06:04:26 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2017, 06:04:26 AM
Bruno Le Maire, Economy and Finance minister, described himself as Hermes, Messenger of Gods, but did not mention he was also the god of merchants and thieves. :P
Maybe he did not know it, in a way like "Jupiterian" was chosen because Jovian is somewhat obscure nowadays thanks to the decline of Latin studies, which the government has promised to support again. :)
Maybe he did not know it, in a way like "Jupiterian" was chosen because Jovian is somewhat obscure nowadays thanks to the decline of Latin studies, which the government has promised to support again. :)
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Razgovory on July 07, 2017, 09:47:18 AM
Post by: Razgovory on July 07, 2017, 09:47:18 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2017, 06:04:26 AM
Bruno Le Maire, Economy and Finance minister, described himself as Hermes, Messenger of Gods, but did not mention he was also the god of merchants and thieves. :P
Maybe he did not know it, in a way like "Jupiterian" was chosen because Jovian is somewhat obscure nowadays thanks to the decline of Latin studies, which the government has promised to support again. :)
Maybe Mr. Le Maire will also become the French Psychopomp or perhaps he will become the father to transsexuals.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2017, 10:10:29 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2017, 10:10:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 07, 2017, 09:47:18 AMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2017, 06:04:26 AM
Bruno Le Maire, Economy and Finance minister, described himself as Hermes, Messenger of Gods, but did not mention he was also the god of merchants and thieves. :P
Maybe he did not know it, in a way like "Jupiterian" was chosen because Jovian is somewhat obscure nowadays thanks to the decline of Latin studies, which the government has promised to support again. :)
Maybe Mr. Le Maire will also become the French Psychopomp or perhaps he will become the father to transsexuals.
I hope there is room for a Charon too, though I fear some politicians might see it as a pretext for a new tax.
Father AND Mother of transsexuals ;) All hail Hermaphrodite, son of Hermes and Aphrodite! :D I believe M. Le Maire has children though. :hmm:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Malthus on July 07, 2017, 12:10:36 PM
Post by: Malthus on July 07, 2017, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2017, 04:30:49 AM
Macron himself has said he plans a "Jupiterian" presidency - as a remote, dignified figure, like the Roman god of gods, who weighs his rare pronouncements carefully. It would be a marked break from his unpopular and often-mocked predecessor Francois Hollande's man-of-the-people style.
Maybe "Jupiterian" in the sense of having sex with many, many mortal women? :hmm:
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: HVC on July 07, 2017, 12:16:41 PM
Post by: HVC on July 07, 2017, 12:16:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 07, 2017, 12:10:36 PMQuote from: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2017, 04:30:49 AM
Macron himself has said he plans a "Jupiterian" presidency - as a remote, dignified figure, like the Roman god of gods, who weighs his rare pronouncements carefully. It would be a marked break from his unpopular and often-mocked predecessor Francois Hollande's man-of-the-people style.
Maybe "Jupiterian" in the sense of having sex with many, many mortal women? :hmm:
But only if he cosplays as an animal... is Macron a fury?
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Malthus on July 07, 2017, 12:23:42 PM
Post by: Malthus on July 07, 2017, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 07, 2017, 12:16:41 PMQuote from: Malthus on July 07, 2017, 12:10:36 PMQuote from: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2017, 04:30:49 AM
Macron himself has said he plans a "Jupiterian" presidency - as a remote, dignified figure, like the Roman god of gods, who weighs his rare pronouncements carefully. It would be a marked break from his unpopular and often-mocked predecessor Francois Hollande's man-of-the-people style.
Maybe "Jupiterian" in the sense of having sex with many, many mortal women? :hmm:
But only if he cosplays as an animal... is Macron a fury?
Thus do damaging - but hilarious - rumors start.
Best hope Trump isn't a lurker here ... :D
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2017, 12:36:06 PM
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2017, 12:36:06 PM
Being remote and dignified seems like an impossible task in the age of the internet. Good luck.
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: HVC on July 07, 2017, 12:39:13 PM
Post by: HVC on July 07, 2017, 12:39:13 PM
he's French. no one can do remote and aloof like the french
Title: Re: Élection présidentielle française
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2017, 05:08:05 PM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2017, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2017, 12:36:06 PM
Being remote and dignified seems like an impossible task in the age of the internet. Good luck.
In the honeymoon phase of his presidency, it's possible. He made a couple of gaffes because he seems to like jokes à la Hollande but so far no political consequences.