Student scolded for saving a life; School doesn’t ‘condone heroics’

[crazy canuck]

In the context of an insanely litigious culture, I'd say the school's response makes a lot of sense.

Canada is an insanely litigious culture?
Is everyone channeling Neil today?
Is there any concrete basis to conclude that the school's rule has anything to do with litigation?

Are you seriously wondering whether the school's policies and responses involving safety and incidents, particularly violent ones, are not informed in large part by a fear of law suits?

I will let Minsky speak for himself.  But any suggestion that Canadian culture is "insanely litigious" is itself quite insane

Responses to incidents regarding violence are largely informed by a desire to ensure there are no acts of violence between or among students.  Seems to me that is an objective good independant of any influence an unlikely law suit might have.

[The Minsky Moment]

Are you seriously wondering whether the school's policies and responses involving safety and incidents, particularly violent ones, are not informed in large part by a fear of law suits?

Yes.  If Canadian schools were immunized from law suits, I would expect the policy to be quite similar to what is.  For exactly the reasons CC says above, because the school has an independent interest in suppressing escalation of fights and protecting student safety.

I have yet to see any facts supporting the claim that this particular policy and response was litigation-driven.

[Camerus]

Obviously one objective of non-violence policies is to discourage violence.  But if you don't believe school policies regarding violence, supervision, etc. are shaped significantly by a desire not to be sued (and having worked in schools I can assure you from personal experience that they most definitely are), then that's your prerogative, albeit one I consider rather naive.

[crazy canuck]

Obviously one objective of non-violence policies is to discourage violence. 

Isnt that the obvious one?  The fact that there is some chance that a law suit might result from a school not implementing an obvious objective does not mean that the obvious objective was created because of the risk of the law suit.

Think about your theory in another context.  People dont avoid care accidents because they might be sued.  People avoid having car accidents because it makes good sense to do so.

[merithyn]

Why? Do you think a knife is not deadly or do you think the asshole would have not stabbed the kid?

This is the crux of it, from my perspective.

Anytime a weapon is shown, there's a danger to someone. The kid did the brave thing of getting that weapon out of the hand of the assailant. Whether the bully was going to use it or not is irrelevant. A knife in hand is a danger to someone.

If the kid broke school policy by acting as he did, then the school policy is broken. It's one thing to encourage kids to get someone to help when there's an incident, and another thing all together to punish someone for choosing to act instead. That's where I feel like the break-down occurred. Were I the parent of the kid who knocked the knife away, I would tell the administration that they're wrong, and take my kid out to celebrate his "vacation" away from school. Probably to an amusement park to let him know that I'm proud of his decision to help someone instead of just running away.

If that's being a "helicopter parent", then I guess I misunderstand the word.

[crazy canuck]

Even in the story, which is full of hyperbole, there is no mention of:

1) a knife being "shown" - the boy simple said "I heard them say there was a knife"

2) the boy "getting that weapon out of the assailant's hand" - the story just says he bumped the assailant aside.  The only person who says he should be a hero is the parent who makes all kinds of unfounded assumptions in the course of coming to the conclusion that her child was a "hero".

If you dont recognize this story as a helicopter parent coming to her child's rescue by creating a dubious version of events to justify her childs actions then I suppose that is a good indication of how ingrained such parenting has become in our society.

[garbon]

Actually I found an article on HuffPo that says the police confirmed there was a knife involved.

[Valmy]

The only person who says he should be a hero is the parent who makes all kinds of unfounded assumptions in the course of coming to the conclusion that her child was a "hero".

Um please point out in the article where it says she came to that conclusion?  Talk about unfounded assumptions.  Nowhere was she even quoted saying that she was just giving her version of the what school said, it was the dude who wrote the article who said he was a hero.  Which makes your assumption that the 'only person who says he should be a hero' was her pretty bizarre.

[merithyn]

When 13-year-old Briar MacLean saw a bully put another student into a headlock in class last Tuesday, that wasn't the worst of it.

"I heard the flick, and I heard them say there was a knife," the Calgary, Alberta, teen told Canada's National Post.

He quickly stepped up and pushed the bully out of the way. The teacher came from the other side of the room and the principal was called. Briar was obviously a hero for saving the other boy from the bully's knife.

The kid heard a flick, someone said there was a knife, and the kid acted to protect the one in the headlock. The rest is immaterial to me. Whatever else was said or done doesn't matter one bit.

Were that my kid, I'd think he'd done what he should have regardless of the danger to himself, and I would reward that. What the school thinks about it is immaterial to how I would respond. If the school decided to punish my kid, then I would think that policy foolish, and would say so to both the school and my child. In fact, I'd say it whether the kid is mine or not, and am now on record as having done so.

I understand a helicopter parent as one who "cossets" their kid, not praises them for putting themselves in dangerous situations. Given my understanding of the term, I doubt you could claim that my take on this situation is one of "helicoptering". Having an opinion that a school policy is a bad one isn't the same thing as "helicoptering", regardless of how much some like to throw that word around.

Of course, anyone is welcome to teach their children to run away and tell Teacher whenever anyone does something bad. I'd rather my kids did something about it.

[merithyn]

Actually I found an article on HuffPo that says the police confirmed there was a knife involved.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant on how other people parent poorly.

[crazy canuck]

The only person who says he should be a hero is the parent who makes all kinds of unfounded assumptions in the course of coming to the conclusion that her child was a "hero".

Um please point out in the article where it says she came to that conclusion?  Talk about unfounded assumptions.  Nowhere was she even quoted saying that she was just giving her version of the what school said, it was the dude who wrote the article who said he was a hero.  Which makes your assumption that the 'only person who says he should be a hero' was her pretty bizarre.

the article is all about her child being a hero and the school being stupid.  The conclusion is based on the mother's view of events.

"I asked: 'In the time it would have taken him to go get a teacher, could that kid's throat have been slit?

The Wild West runs strong in you people. 

[crazy canuck]

Actually I found an article on HuffPo that says the police confirmed there was a knife involved.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant on how other people parent poorly.

Perhaps you could quote where the story says the boy did more then simply bump the assailant... you know the basis upon which you say he saw a knife and disarmed the boy.

Its clear you guys are all about people taking matters into their own hand regardless of the risks.  Another one of those things that makes me glad you dont vote here.

[merithyn]

Perhaps you could quote where the story says the boy did more then simply bump the assailant... you know the basis upon which you say he saw a knife and disarmed the boy.

Let me reiterate.

The kid heard a flick, someone said there was a knife, and the kid acted to protect the one in the headlock. The rest is immaterial to me. Whatever else was said or done doesn't matter one bit.

Its clear you guys are all about people taking matters into their own hand regardless of the risks.  Another one of those things that makes me glad you dont vote here.

Yes, I am. Had more people been like that, maybe 9/11 wouldn't have killed thousands and scarred a nation. After all, the one plane where people acted instead of sitting like sheep resulted in only their deaths, and not the deaths of who knows how many more.

[Valmy]

the article is all about her child being a hero and the school being stupid.  The conclusion is based on the mother's view of events.

The conclusion might just as easily be about the author's particular axe to grind.

[Valmy]

Yes, I am. Had more people been like that, maybe 9/11 wouldn't have killed thousands and scarred a nation. After all, the one plane where people acted instead of sitting like sheep resulted in only their deaths, and not the deaths of who knows how many more.

This is exactly why I have not said much specifically about who is in the right here.  For years it sort of bugged me the message the government kept giving us about hijacking was just to let the hijackers do what they want and let the authorities handle it even if we could easily subdue them...you know for safety and stuff.  Because hijackers would never do anything that would endanger us all don't you know?  Yeah that public service announcement worked out great.  And I also remember the message was specifically 'do not try to be a hero'.