Student scolded for saving a life; School doesn’t ‘condone heroics’

[merithyn]

I am glad you did because I was instantly reacting to that and glad I could talk about it.  Thanks.

The school might be doing the right thing here but it immediately brought up bad stuff for me.

It was the first thing that came to my mind, too. Maybe Seedy is right, and that shift is becoming more pervasive because of what happened on 9/11.

[crazy canuck]

as tacky as the Brain in with three pigs in a vat of molasses.

What size of vat do you have in mind there

[garbon]

I'll concede that using the 9/11 tragedy was a bad idea to make my point. Nonetheless, I still believe that the point is the same. The easy answer is to do nothing. It takes someone special to be willing to step up and help, especially when there's real danger.

When you post something like this, makes it hard to swallow that you aren't blaming 9/11 vics. Not that I think you are but your phrasing leaves you open to criticism on that front.

[merithyn]

I'll concede that using the 9/11 tragedy was a bad idea to make my point. Nonetheless, I still believe that the point is the same. The easy answer is to do nothing. It takes someone special to be willing to step up and help, especially when there's real danger.

When you post something like this, makes it hard to swallow that you aren't blaming 9/11 vics. Not that I think you are but your phrasing leaves you open to criticism on that front.

As I've said, there are those who act and those who don't. I don't know that "blame" comes into play against those who choose not to act so much as accolades to do to those who do act. The default is to do nothing. In fact, as has been stated, we're actually taught to do nothing. It's because that's the default that when someone does act we call it heroism.

As an alternative, I don't think that choosing to do nothing is cowardly. It's cowardly to run away and leave others to fend for themselves, but it isn't cowardly to not act. At least not in my mind. Which is why I say that I don't blame anyone on those planes for what happened. At the same time, we can learn from them.

[merithyn]

So let's say we - as a school - have a policy that says "violence is strictly and completely forbidden, under all circumstances; unless it's necessary to defend yourself or heroically protect someone else". Briar in the article doesn't get scolded (nor does he get a newspaper article about him either), and that's great.

What do we do about all the incidents of violence where the participants - possibly on both sides of the conflict - claim they are heroically protecting someone else? Because I'm pretty sure "he started it" and "I was helping my friend" are pretty easy extenuating circumstances to claim for most people involved in schoolyard spats, however true it may be. How do we deal with that?

This is where the "over-worked principal/teacher" dynamic comes into play. It used to be that school administrators tried to work out what happened and why, and then acted based on that. Now, few administrators have time for that kind of thing, and School Boards wouldn't allow it anyway, because of the abuses that were heaped on in the past against various groups of people (racism, rich vs poor, boys vs. girls, etc).

I think, however, that we've grown as a nation and more and more people have learned from our past mistakes in that stuff. We're not perfect, but I do think that we can let the ropes go a little bit slack and let administrators have a bit more leeway. In that, I think we can be more reasonable about how we approach these kinds of situations instead of throwing out the "rules are rules" excuse to handle them poorly.

[Malthus]

So let's say we - as a school - have a policy that says "violence is strictly and completely forbidden, under all circumstances; unless it's necessary to defend yourself or heroically protect someone else". Briar in the article doesn't get scolded (nor does he get a newspaper article about him either), and that's great.

What do we do about all the incidents of violence where the participants - possibly on both sides of the conflict - claim they are heroically protecting someone else? Because I'm pretty sure "he started it" and "I was helping my friend" are pretty easy extenuating circumstances to claim for most people involved in schoolyard spats, however true it may be. How do we deal with that?

That's where the "helicopter parents" come into play.

Generally speaking, schools often will simply impose the same discipline on both participants in a fight regardless. It's the course of least resistance. Teachers etc. lack the ability or willingness to reliably play dectective.

Problem is, this means that the bully and his or her victim get the same punishment when the bully picks on the victim and the victim fights back.

Practically speaking, the only remedy for that, unfortunately, is for the much-reviled parents to exert pressure on the school authorities on the kid's behalf - making punishing the victim not the course of least resistance. Of course, that raises the possibility that the parents of the bully, not the parents of the victim, go assertive. The main benefit of assertive parents is that they can galvanize the school administration into at least attempting to look into these matters.

[merithyn]

That's where the "helicopter parents" come into play.

Generally speaking, schools often will simply impose the same discipline on both participants in a fight regardless. It's the course of least resistance. Teachers etc. lack the ability or willingness to reliably play dectective.

Problem is, this means that the bully and his or her victim get the same punishment when the bully picks on the victim and the victim fights back.

Practically speaking, the only remedy for that, unfortunately, is for the much-reviled parents to exert pressure on the school authorities on the kid's behalf - making punishing the victim not the course of least resistance. Of course, that raises the possibility that the parents of the bully, not the parents of the victim, go assertive. The main benefit of assertive parents is that they can galvanize the school administration into at least attempting to look into these matters.

Or the school administration - and other lazy people - can just complain about "helicopter parents" and how they're ruining society.

[Kleves]

As I've said, there are those who act and those who don't. I don't know that "blame" comes into play against those who choose not to act so much as accolades to do to those who do act. The default is to do nothing. In fact, as has been stated, we're actually taught to do nothing. It's because that's the default that when someone does act we call it heroism.

Let's say the hijacking on 9/11 was just a regular hijacking, and that they were all on their way to Cuba. Would some of the passengers fighting back and causing the plane to crash, killing everyone, still be "heroism" to you? If you wouldn't applaud such actions in that situation, then I don't see how you can legitimately criticize anything the 9/11 passengers did.

[merithyn]

As I've said, there are those who act and those who don't. I don't know that "blame" comes into play against those who choose not to act so much as accolades to do to those who do act. The default is to do nothing. In fact, as has been stated, we're actually taught to do nothing. It's because that's the default that when someone does act we call it heroism.

Let's say the hijacking on 9/11 was just a regular hijacking, and that they were all on their way to Cuba. Would some of the passengers fighting back and causing the plane to crash, killing everyone, still be "heroism" to you? If you wouldn't applaud such actions in that situation, then I don't see how you can legitimately criticize anything the 9/11 passengers did.

To me, yes, it would be heroism. Tragic, but heroic.

[Ed Anger]

I'm not flying with Meri.

[CountDeMoney]

I am.  Gonna use her boobies as a floatation device.

[Ed Anger]

Only if first class breaks off like the Enterprise-D's saucer section.

[CountDeMoney]

That would've meant Picard surrendered.  NO DEAL

[dps]

Generally speaking, schools often will simply impose the same discipline on both participants in a fight regardless. It's the course of least resistance. Teachers etc. lack the ability or willingness to reliably play dectective.

In my experience, many (though not all) teachers and others in the educational system lack the ability to reliably tell their asses from holes in the ground.

[11B4V]

Generally speaking, schools often will simply impose the same discipline on both participants in a fight regardless. It's the course of least resistance. Teachers etc. lack the ability or willingness to reliably play dectective.

In my experience, many (though not all) teachers and others in the educational system lack the ability to reliably tell their asses from holes in the ground.

and yet they want to get paid even more.