Turkish police use tear gas, injure dozens in break up of protests

[Tamas]

Well, I am still with the protesters though. Fuck bigotry and fucking religion-induced personal life micromanager laws. That kind of shit will eventually ruin any country.

And fascists and thugs being out in force? Well of course. Regardless of how noble the cause of civil unrest is, it will always be the violent scum on the initial front line.

[Queequeg]

I wouldn't have expected so many people to be endorsing military dictatorship.

When the alternative is a democracy self-devolving into theocracy, military dictatorship doesn't seem like a half-bad alternative.  It's a vicious circle, you don't teach people to defend democratic institutions by instituting dictatorship, but theocracy doesn't quite do that either.

Islamism doesn't have 20 years of juice left. There's substantially less religious enthusiasm in modern Iran than in Turkey, and Iran has had the longest and most intense exposure to Islamofascism.  It's as much a modern response to the failure of post-colonial ideologies as anything, and the next generation in the Muslim world is going to see China doing wonders while Saudi-funded government clerics tell the youth not to have sex and vote for failing governments.  I'll take economic competence and religious tenancies over the kleptocratic authoritarianism of the CHP.

[Queequeg]

Well, I am still with the protesters though. Fuck bigotry and fucking religion-induced personal life micromanager laws. That kind of shit will eventually ruin any country.

And fascists and thugs being out in force? Well of course. Regardless of how noble the cause of civil unrest is, it will always be the violent scum on the initial front line.

What you fail to understand is that the CHP has a far longer, more violent history of religious repression than the AKP. 

[Tamas]

  you still don't give up the rose-tinted glasses do you? :p

Broad support for bigotry and populism is there to stay

[Queequeg]

What do you mean by "sexual deviants"?

Country bumpkins hitting on anything with a repeating chromosome.

[Queequeg]

you still don't give up the rose-tinted glasses do you? :p

Broad support for bigotry and populism is there to stay

You have no intellectual or emotional investment in the country.  All I am seeing right now is a tribal hostility to religious populations.

[Tamas]

Well, I am still with the protesters though. Fuck bigotry and fucking religion-induced personal life micromanager laws. That kind of shit will eventually ruin any country.

And fascists and thugs being out in force? Well of course. Regardless of how noble the cause of civil unrest is, it will always be the violent scum on the initial front line.

What you fail to understand is that the CHP has a far longer, more violent history of religious repression than the AKP.

I don't get it. So akp should stay because at least they oppress non-Islamists?

[Tamas]

you still don't give up the rose-tinted glasses do you? :p

Broad support for bigotry and populism is there to stay

You have no intellectual or emotional investment in the country.  All I am seeing right now is a tribal hostility to religious populations.

What you see is unrest against a religious rightish populism you would despise if you saw it in a western country

[Sheilbh]

I'd agree the AKP have generally done pretty well and a large part of the reason this is happening is because the official opposition have been so useless - they deserve their share of the blame.

I'm with the protesters too. But that's because I love a protest movement and I think Erdogan's been around too long, it'll do everyone good for the party managers to move him on.

[Queequeg]

Well, I am still with the protesters though. Fuck bigotry and fucking religion-induced personal life micromanager laws. That kind of shit will eventually ruin any country.

And fascists and thugs being out in force? Well of course. Regardless of how noble the cause of civil unrest is, it will always be the violent scum on the initial front line.

What you fail to understand is that the CHP has a far longer, more violent history of religious repression than the AKP.

I don't get it. So akp should stay because at least they oppress non-Islamists?

They don't hang or assassinate people as the CHP have done in living memory.  Turgut Ozal was murdered because he posed a danger to the Army's stake nationalized industries. 

Also, the CHP was at the helm during the burning of Izmir, during the Istanbul pogrom, closing of Haliki, etc...

[Sheilbh]

What you see is unrest against a religious rightish populism you would despise if you saw it in a western country

As a committed supporter of Huckabee '08 and '12 I'm not sure that's entirely fair

Not to mention both Papa Ratzi and Francis

[Queequeg]

you still don't give up the rose-tinted glasses do you? :p

Broad support for bigotry and populism is there to stay

You have no intellectual or emotional investment in the country.  All I am seeing right now is a tribal hostility to religious populations.

What you see is unrest against a religious rightish populism you would despise if you saw it in a western country

I have a lot more respect for the class of Anatolian bazaaris that make up the backbone of the AKP than I do for CHP apparatchiks.  I think the AKP mirrors many of the GOP's faults, but with a better record of administrative competence and a far less ideal opposition party.

[Razgovory]

In your country I suppose you could say the same thing about the communists...

Well first they destroyed Budapest in a bloody siege and then again in a vicious street battle in 1956 and finally they replaced beautiful old buildings with big ugly green boxes.  The Hungarians sure have alot to be thankful for.

Uh, the Hungarians had Budapest destroyed in the war, that's a self-inflicted wound.  They rebuilt the country, of course the price was high.  It is for every conqueror who improves things including the Romans.  "What did the Romans ever do for us?" is nice snarky Monty Python quote but the answer is "they burned our cities, they enslaved a large number of our people, garrisoned our country and taxed our people, and colonized our lands.  A small price to pay for roads which we could and often did build ourselves."

[Tamas]

Well, I am still with the protesters though. Fuck bigotry and fucking religion-induced personal life micromanager laws. That kind of shit will eventually ruin any country.

And fascists and thugs being out in force? Well of course. Regardless of how noble the cause of civil unrest is, it will always be the violent scum on the initial front line.

What you fail to understand is that the CHP has a far longer, more violent history of religious repression than the AKP.

I don't get it. So akp should stay because at least they oppress non-Islamists?

They don't hang or assassinate people as the CHP have done in living memory.  Turgut Ozal was murdered because he posed a danger to the Army's stake nationalized industries. 

Also, the CHP was at the helm during the burning of Izmir, during the Istanbul pogrom, closing of Haliki, etc...

When did those happen, and where did the protesters declare that their agenda is to put this other party back in power?

[Razgovory]

Well, I am still with the protesters though. Fuck bigotry and fucking religion-induced personal life micromanager laws. That kind of shit will eventually ruin any country.

And fascists and thugs being out in force? Well of course. Regardless of how noble the cause of civil unrest is, it will always be the violent scum on the initial front line.

What sort of bigotry are we talking about?  The Euro Islamaphobia type that so infests countries like Hungary?  I don't think they protesting that.