Turkish police use tear gas, injure dozens in break up of protests

[Ed Anger]

Allah is 25% off this week.

[Tonitrus]

Can that discount be combined with a coupon?

[Ed Anger]

No.

[Syt]

I thought he wanted to build a mall.

Change of plans:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-pm-erdogan-retires-mall-project-vows-mosque-in-taksim.aspx?pageID=238&nID=48035&NewsCatID=338

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has stepped back from building a shopping mall in the Artillery Barracks project to replace Taksim Gezi Park, while also announcing that a mosque will be built on Taksim Square.

"You cannot make an AVM [shopping mall] familiar to the international ones in this area. There is no conclusive AVM project here. Maybe we will make a city museum there or an architectural work that will put different activities in place. Is there any certain document? No," said Erdoğan on June 2 in Istanbul as he attended the Rumeli Turks Association's general assembly.

Erdoğan also said the much debated Atatürk Cultural Center (AKM), also on Taksim Square, should be demolished, proposing to build an opera house and a mosque there instead.

"A mosque will be built in Taksim," said Erdoğan adding that he did not have to receive permission from the main opposition leader or a "few marauders" for the projects. He said that the authority had already been given by people who voted for the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP).

Erdoğan remains defiant against Taksim Gezi Park protests

Erdoğan has remained defiant against the demonstrations taking place in Istanbul's Taksim Gezi Park for the past six days.

"Is your issue about planting trees? It is not tree cutting going on there. It is the stubbing 12 trees as part of the pedestrianization project of Taksim," said Erdoğan, citing the projects of his government that had planted trees across the country.

He also accused the protesters of causing damage to property. "They are burning, damaging the shops. Is this democracy?" asked Erdoğan. He also criticized those who called him a "dictator" for the excessive use of force against the protesters in Taksim.

"[They say] Tayyip Erdoğan is dictator. If they call one who serves the people a dictator, I cannot not say anything," he added. Erdoğan also reiterated that building a shopping mall in the Taksim Gezi was not a conclusive decision.

The police forces started to withdraw from Taksim on June 1, where a brutal crackdown targeting demonstrators protesting the demolition of Taksim Gezi Park had been ongoing for over a day. Clashes broke out in Istanbul's symbolic İstiklal Avenue, the Beşiktaş and Harbiye districts.

Protesters entered Taksim Square and even took over Gezi Park, which had been cordoned off by the police after a very violent dawn raid on demonstrators on May 31. The raid had triggered some of the largest clashes between police and peaceful protesters in Turkey in recent years after activists occupied Gezi Park on May 28.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atat%C3%BCrk_Cultural_Center

The center is home to the
Istanbul State Symphony Orchestra and Choir (İstanbul Devlet Senfoni Orkestrası ve Korosu),
Istanbul State Modern Folk Music Ensemble (İstanbul Devlet Modern Halk Müziği Topluluğu) and
Istanbul State Classical Turkish Music Choir (İstanbul Devlet Klasik Türk Müziği Korosu).
During the summer and Informationmonths, AKM hosts the Istanbul Arts and Culture Festival.
The complex is a rebuilding of the former AKM, which was burnt down in a fire on November 27, 1970 during a performance. It is currently undergoing major refurbishments to bring it up to date before Istanbul takes over the title of European Capital of Culture in 2010. The modernization works have been designed by renowned Turkish architecture firm Tabanlıoğlu Mimarlık.[1]

[Syt]

I think Erdogan is moving pretty smartly here.

He send the police to disperse protesters - that spun a bit out of control. So he goes and says that the police was maybe a bit too harsh on the protestors and that there'll be investgattions. And he opens the contested Plaza for now - nothing to lose, since a court proceding has stopped construction there for now, anyways. Seems he hopes this whole thing peters out over the weekend.

Then he goes on and says that instead of a mall they'll build a mosque - daring the crowds to protest against building a House of God. On top of that he wants to tear down the Atatürk Center, a symbol of secularism that some say has intentionally not received funding for renovations, and wants to build a mosque there, too.

[Sheilbh]

I agree with Syt.

These protests are really interesting though. The response has been shocking. But, despite Erdogan's authoritarianism and the increasing sort-of majoritarianism of the AKP, I would never have guessed that what would start mass protests would be a plan to redevelop a park. That they'd then snowball into a general protest against Erdogan's style of rule, and the state response.

But I think though his real response may be pretty smart, from what I've read of his rhetoric has been awful. It's probably likely to remind many people of why they were protesting in the first place.

I'm not sure how much is to do with the proposed development looking corrupt too? I believe the construction company proposed is owned by Erdogan's son-in-law or something similar.

[Syt]

Well, Turkish politics since Atatürk has been about having a strong leader at the top. He enjoys a lot of support in the conservative rural regions in the country and had close to 50% of votes in the last elections. Given that, he can afford to talk big. As long as he manages to piss off less than half of the people, he will be fine.

Regarding corruption - it seems to be an issue for many, but at the same time it seems to be expected that the ruling party does favors for their friends. What worries me more is that a lot of the economic growth in past years comes from lots and lots of construction projects that has some analysts worried that a bubble is building that, when it bursts, will send the country crashing back down.

[Sheilbh]

Well, Turkish politics since Atatürk has been about having a strong leader at the top. He enjoys a lot of support in the conservative rural regions in the country and had close to 50% of votes in the last elections. Given that, he can afford to talk big. As long as he manages to piss off less than half of the people, he will be fine.

Fair enough. But I mean from his own perspective. When party leaders stop even pretending to care about the people who might vote for the opposition they're normally creating a far stronger and more aggressive opposition. Which Turkey needs - the CHP are a shower.

But also people who may not like him, and are a bit worried but willing to give him a chance may hear his rhetoric and get on the streets too.

Regarding corruption - it seems to be an issue for many, but at the same time it seems to be expected that the ruling party does favors for their friends. What worries me more is that a lot of the economic growth in past years comes from lots and lots of construction projects that has some analysts worried that a bubble is building that, when it bursts, will send the country crashing back down.

Yeah. I've seen a lot about Turkey's economy not being entirely stable. They had a problem with a huge amount of hot money flooding the country during the crisis. Hopefully they can resolve it.

Incidentally I walked past a solidarity protest in Trafalgar Square yesterday. Turkish protesters look like they have a lot of fun. There was organised dancing and sit-ins, they also looked really annoyed at the Socialist Workers who'd joined in with anti-Iraq war placards

[Syt]

Fair enough. But I mean from his own perspective. When party leaders stop even pretending to care about the people who might vote for the opposition they're normally creating a far stronger and more aggressive opposition. Which Turkey needs - the CHP are a shower.

But also people who may not like him, and are a bit worried but willing to give him a chance may hear his rhetoric and get on the streets too.

I agree. However, such persons usually have a tendency to get into a situation where the mask comes off. Hell, it happened even to Chancellor Kohl who was a champion of sitting back and waiting for a situation to blow over when he refused to reveal the source of 2 million DM he had accepted on behalf of his party, because he had given his "word of honor" that he wouldn't reveal the donor.

Incidentally I walked past a solidarity protest in Trafalgar Square yesterday. Turkish protesters look like they have a lot of fun. There was organised dancing and sit-ins, they also looked really annoyed at the Socialist Workers who'd joined in with anti-Iraq war placards

There were 500 or so Turks showing solidarity in Vienna yesterday, but I guess today they probably stayed home on account of the rainy weather.

[Syt]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/59d34ed8-cbab-11e2-8ff3-00144feab7de.html#axzz2V5b1DOs1

Violence reignites on Turkey's streets

By Daniel Dombey in Istanbul

Turkey's prime minister lashed out at tens of thousands of protesters on Sunday, deepening a rift that has spawned Turkey's biggest demonstrations in years as tensions grow between the Islamist-rooted government and secular middle-class Turks.

In a series of television appearances following the occupation of Taksim Square, Recep Tayyip Erdogan dismissed protesters as "looters", described Twitter as a "curse" and branded anyone who drank alcohol an alcoholic.

He spoke as demonstrators marched again to Taksim, which has been surrounded by protesters' barricades since his government withdrew police forces on Saturday. The police were again extensively using tear gas against protesters late on Sunday in worsening clashes in both Istanbul's Besiktas area and Ankara, the capital city.

In Besiktas, protesters thronged the streets among a heavy police presence as residents leaned from their windows banging pots and pans in support of the demonstration.

Mr Erdogan's plans to replace Gezi Park, adjoining Taksim, with a reconstruction of an Ottoman-style barracks, complete with a shopping mall, sparked the initial protest last week. But the scale of the police crackdown – including hours of relentless tear gas attacks by the police on overwhelmingly peaceful protesters from Friday – magnified the dispute.

On Sunday, Mr Erdogan discarded some of his rhetoric from a day before, when he had suggested he could summon 1m people on to the street if the demonstrators called out 200,000.

"If you can call someone who is a servant of the country a dictator, then it leaves me speechless," he said in a speech. "I have no aim other than serving the nation."

It was unclear when Mr Erdogan would order the police to move back into Taksim. "These events have nothing to do with trees," Mr Erdogan said, referring to initial protests against his plans to develop Gezi Park. "This is an ideological fight against me."

The face-off between Mr Erdogan and demonstrators across the country comes after 10 years in which the prime minister has presided over rapidly rising living standards and dominated the country's political landscape, winning three elections and defeating a series of coups by the army.

Many protesters say that authoritarian tendencies on the part of Mr Erdogan are the root cause of the scale of discontent, citing measures such as a new law to restrict the consumption of alcohol.

"I do these things because I love all of my citizens; I want them to get rid of their bad habits," Mr Erdogan said.

He argued that anyone who drank alcohol was an alcoholic unless they voted for the ruling Justice and Development party, although he later said he was referring to regular users of alcohol.

Mr Erdogan also said that he would not be deterred from plans to build a mosque in the square by Turkey's opposition party, which he accused of manipulating the protests for its electoral advantage, or by "looters" – a reference to the protesters.

In scenes earlier in the weekend some protesters threw stones at police and smashed public property. But the protesters insisted that much of the damage was caused by police and on Sunday hundreds cleaned Taksim square and the neighbouring Gezi Park in a celebratory atmosphere.

While protesters have vehemently criticised Turkish mass media for restricting coverage of the demonstrations, Mr Erdogan inveighed against social media for passing misinformation. "There is this curse called Twitter . . . Social media is the curse of society," he said.

[Syt]

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10094601/Syria-issues-travel-warning-for-Turkey.html

Syria issues travel warning for Turkey

Syrian authorities, battling a rebel uprising in which 80,000 people have been killed, has advised citizens against travel to neighbouring Turkey on safety grounds.

[Tamas]

 



Also: are these protests really causing Erdogan to come out of the islamist closet? What kind of retard comments are those?

[Viking]

Also: are these protests really causing Erdogan to come out of the islamist closet? What kind of retard comments are those?

I agree with Erdogan that Twitter is evil. He makes a good point there.

[Razgovory]

How can anyone keep on advocating these people are fit for civilized company?  For civilized interactions?  For civilized reasoning?

I have no doubt a great many Muslims are reasonable enough to 'live and let live'.  Yet there's always this minority that is ready - and able - to throw it all  out for the sake of religious purity.  And more importantly, there's always the fact that the majority will tolerate this minority (and all its excesses) out of some... loyalty in the face of 'outsiders' I guess... 

I suppose that the fact Islam is presented/packaged/marketed as a concurrent value system to the Western one doesn't help these poor souls to distinguish between the personal, civic and religious spheres of their lives.  However it should be a red flag to any Western nation when it comes to immigration.  That way they wouldn't be caught up with 2nd generation terrorism and all the assorted 'pleasantries' offered by Islam...



G.

All this because of anti-government protesters?

taksim square is Ataturk-central for Istanbul iirc. A physical symbol of the secular state that Turkey supposedly is. Now Ergodgan wants to build a gigantic mosque there -right across the opera and what not. Seems like an another assault on the symbols of secularism in the country.

And military dictatorship.

[Neil]

Military dictatorship is a good thing in the muslim world.