Turkish police use tear gas, injure dozens in break up of protests

[Razgovory]

Sounds more like "Occupy Istanbul" then, "We must stop the theocracy!".

Doesn't really sound like they are demanding a military dictatorship either oddly.

No, that's just Viking.

[Tamas]

Blogpost from the ground, so to speak: http://defnesumanblogs.com/2013/06/01/what-is-happenning-in-istanbul/

trust a yoga teacher to score points against the demonstrators. I mean come on:

The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its people's will

WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US? Freeways? POWER PLANTS?!!!

[Sheilbh]

Sounds more like "Occupy Istanbul" then, "We must stop the theocracy!".

Doesn't really sound like they are demanding a military dictatorship either oddly.

They're not.

I think there's an old version of events in Turkey which is being foist upon these events which is about Islamism v secularism, populism v the military. My impression is that's not really what these protests are about, or in response to, or even what the problem people have with Erdogan is.

For all of the people saying about how they've eroded Turkey's democracy, I'm not really sure what they mean. I think Erdogan tried, with some constitutional amendments - but they were defeated. The press is hardly a profile in courage but it's been ever thus in Turkey and the way they've been threatened hasn't been through restrictions on freedom of speech (beyond the standard). Turkey's democratic standards aren't great but they've not been hugely weakened in the years of AKP rule, arguably they've been strengthened given the way the military have been dealt with. We're not talking any Orban style changes here.

I think Erdogan's got an authoritarian streak and I think he's increasingly behaving in a majoritarian way. He doesn't like dissent from within his party (which he received over the constitution and arguments with Gul over it) and he takes the attitude that, having won a majority of votes, he doesn't need to listen to anyone else. He has a tendency to dramatise situations and demonise his enemies. He's the Jose Mourinho of world politics if you will (just to bait Tamas again ). But, to me, at this point, he most resembles someone like Kohl or Thatcher rather than, say, Mubarak or Putin.

I'd add there have also been significant demonstrations outside Istanbul.

trust a yoga teacher to score points against the demonstrators. I mean come on:

The entire protests started over plans to build a shopping centre over a park in Istanbul

[Tamas]

I KNOW. But there is protesting the destruction of your city's only remaining major park, and there is opposing civilization.

[Sheilbh]

Depends on how many freeways, dams and nuclear plants you already have.

[Neil]

Elitism isn't the opposite of authoritarianism

So?  They're an uncontrollable mess of retards who think that they're the smartest people in the room, and that only the smartest people in the room should have a say.  My point is that I am right, everyone else is wrong, and you're a terrible person for hating on people who want movies based on old properties to bear some resemblance to those properties.

Wait, what?  You lost me on the last part.

Sheilbh is a hateful, hateful person who takes pleasure in cruelty towards people who he thinks are 'nerds'.

[Sheilbh]

What?

Edit: I'll give you 'hateful, hateful', but the rest is nonsense.

[Neil]

What?

Edit: I'll give you 'hateful, hateful', but the rest is nonsense.

You're the one who went on a tear about how important it was for new movies to cause anguish to fans of old properties.  I felt that was rather harsh, so I decided that your new main personality point is that you hate nerds.  Sort of like Homer Simpson from that episode of the Simpons.

[Jacob]

What?

Edit: I'll give you 'hateful, hateful', but the rest is nonsense.

I'd cop to "person" too if I were you.

[Razgovory]

Blogpost from the ground, so to speak: http://defnesumanblogs.com/2013/06/01/what-is-happenning-in-istanbul/

trust a yoga teacher to score points against the demonstrators. I mean come on:

The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its people's will

WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US? Freeways? POWER PLANTS?!!!

In your country I suppose you could say the same thing about the communists...

[derspiess]

In your country I suppose you could say the same thing about the communists...

Really? 

[Valmy]

In your country I suppose you could say the same thing about the communists...

Well first they destroyed Budapest in a bloody siege and then again in a vicious street battle in 1956 and finally they replaced beautiful old buildings with big ugly green boxes.  The Hungarians sure have alot to be thankful for.

[Tamas]

Srsly.

People come up with the "commies built a lot of stuff and raised standard of living omg!". Yeah, they let the people have stuff US citizens had 30-40 years already. Like that propaganda news from the late 50s, where they are proud to open shops in town which had such amazing new household electronics as RADIOS, and REFIGERATORS, OMG!

Should I be grateful that communism provided half of what capitalism could, with decades of delay? Well, I choose not to be.

[Queequeg]

WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US? Freeways? POWER PLANTS?!!!

This is kind of my perspective on things.  The AKP enjoy majority support and have done more to build up the country than anyone, well, ever.  The economy is flourishing.  A lot of the protesters are either western-style anticapitalists or children of CHP-linked magnates who want to get back to the good-old days of hyperinflation and army control over the economy.  The MHP, Turkish Fascists, are out in force, and the CHP's stance on Kurdish and other minority issues is as awful as it ever was, despite Kilicdaroglu's background.  The park itself is hideous, dates back to the 80s, and prior to this was most famous as a hangout of sexual deviants.  The new Galata bridge is a far greater crime against the city.

I don't say a lot of this on FB or Twitter because almost all of my friends are CHP-backers, but I think a lot of the drama around this is retarded.  The CHP doesn't have it's old army connections so it can't play Praetorian Guard, but it's yet to evolve in to any kind of effective Social Democrat party, so the opposition is throwing a hissy fit.

[Jacob]

What do you mean by "sexual deviants"?