Sci-fi/Fantasy recommendations

[Darth Wagtaros]

Worse.

[Neil]

I cheered for the slaughter of the anti-war protesters.  And that little girl had it coming.  I don't take issue with this Richard guy's actions, just the odd way in which they are written.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I cheered for the slaughter of the anti-war protesters.  And that little girl had it coming.  I don't take issue with this Richard guy's actions, just the odd way in which they are written.

That should be enough though.  Poor writing is poor writing.  Given how expensive books are these days the editing should be decent.

[Ed Anger]

I know that this is beating a dead horse, but someone else posted another bit of Goodkin goodness, in which the hero faces a bunch of pacifists "armed only with a hatred of moral clarity" and kills them all:

"No war! No war! No war!" the people shouted as Richard led the men up the street at a dead run.

"Out of the way!" Richard yelled as he closed the distance. This was no time for subtlety or discussions: the success of their attack depended in large part on speed. "Get out of the way! This is your only warning! Get out of the way or die!"

"Stop the hate! Stop the hate!" the people chanted as they locked arms.

They had no idea how much hate was raging through Richard. He drew the Sword of Truth. The wrath of its magic didn't come out with it, but he had enough of his own. He slowed to a trot.

"Move!" Richard called as he bore down on the people.

A plump, curly-haired woman took a step out from the others. Her round face was red with anger as she screamed. "Stop the hate! No war! Stop the hate! No war!"

"Move or die!" Richard yelled as he picked up speed.

The red-faced woman shook her fleshy fist at Richard and his men, leading an angry chant. "Murderers! Murderers! Murderers!"
On his way past her, gritting his teeth as he screamed with the fury of the attack begun, Richard took a powerful swing, lopping off the woman's head and upraised arm. Strings of blood and gore splashed across the faces behind her even as some still chanted their empty words. The head and loose arm tumbled through the crowd. A man made the mistake of reaching for Richard's weapon, and took the full weight of a charging thrust.

Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead. The line of people collapsed before the merciless charge. Some of the people, screaming their contempt, used their fists to attack Richard's men. They were met with swift and deadly steel.

I think Goodkin really intended that you cheer for the armed-and-armored guys slaughtering the unarmed-and-unarmored anti-war protesters.  There is no evidence that Goodkin intended this as a spoof.

I'm sorta aroused.

[Syt]

Actually, killing the pacifists might work if it was better written and had a better context.

Maybe the mob was under the mind control of an evil wizard or lich, blocking the hero's attack on the villain. If he doesn't act swiftly, the villain will be able to complete his plan (ritual, powering up a machine, whatever) that would kill many many people or bring some other extreme evil to the world. So Richard has to take the tough decision to slay the protestors.

Which could again be a source of conflict - he's wracked with guilt (maybe he later learns that there would have been another way, or that his attempt was futile/unnecessary), increasing his burden. Friends would turn away from him, or at least change their opinions of him.

I guess what I'm saying that the hero killing unarmed civilians could work, if it was set up as a tragic low point in his character arc, not as a high point of moral fortitude.

[Ed Anger]

Last time I strangled a hippie, I wasn't wracked with guilt.

[garbon]

I cheered for the slaughter of the anti-war protesters.  And that little girl had it coming.  I don't take issue with this Richard guy's actions, just the odd way in which they are written.

That should be enough though.  Poor writing is poor writing.  Given how expensive books are these days the editing should be decent.

Are books that expensive these days? Or does Goodkind not have mass market paperbacks?

[grumbler]

I cheered for the slaughter of the anti-war protesters.  And that little girl had it coming.  I don't take issue with this Richard guy's actions, just the odd way in which they are written.

That's because you felt your thing had come awake rise up.

[grumbler]

Are books that expensive these days? Or does Goodkind not have mass market paperbacks?

Even mass market paperbacks are nine or ten bucks these days.

[garbon]

Are books that expensive these days? Or does Goodkind not have mass market paperbacks?

Even mass market paperbacks are nine or ten bucks these days.

Which makes for what - a 2-3 dollar increase since the late 90s?

[Berkut]

What I never understood about Goodkind is that he is so popular.

I mean, there are lots of bad writers out there, but the ones who are popular, you can at least see WHY they are popular, even if you don't necessarily agree. They typically have something about them that makes up for whatever failings they might have as a writer.

George Martin might have his issues, but the shit he does well, he does amazingly well.

The Wheel of Time is interminable, but that world is pretty interesting, and at least some of those characters are well done.

You maybe can see how people are willing to put up with the bad to get to the good. I would argue that for an author like Martin, the good is VERY good.

But Goodkind? Where is the pay off? What does he do well that makes up for the terrible writing, boring plots, and idiotic characters? What am I missing?


On another note, I picked up Steven Erikson's Gardens of the Moon. Again. And actually got through it this time. It is actually really quite good, once you get into it. I am looking forward to some more.

Again, an author with some obvious weaknesses in his writing, but the things he does well make the story compelling.

[grumbler]

Are books that expensive these days? Or does Goodkind not have mass market paperbacks?

Even mass market paperbacks are nine or ten bucks these days.

Which makes for what - a 2-3 dollar increase since the late 90s?

It makes for a 2-3 dollar increase over the time since they were 2-3 dollars cheaper, yes.

I'm not sure what that has to do with poor editing.  Or maybe you were starting a non sequitur contest and I just missed that fact?

[garbon]

Are books that expensive these days? Or does Goodkind not have mass market paperbacks?

Even mass market paperbacks are nine or ten bucks these days.

Which makes for what - a 2-3 dollar increase since the late 90s?

It makes for a 2-3 dollar increase over the time since they were 2-3 dollars cheaper, yes.

I'm not sure what that has to do with poor editing.  Or maybe you were starting a non sequitur contest and I just missed that fact?

Wags complained that books should be better edited given that they cost so much these days. I guess I could agree with the idea that books should have better editing but not because they have become so expensive.

[grumbler]

Wags complained that books should be better edited given that they cost so much these days. I guess I could agree with the idea that books should have better editing but not because they have become so expensive.

Well, book prices have outpaced inflation by a lot.  Paperbacks were in the range of 35 cents in the 1960s, which with inflation would be in the three dollar range today, not the nine-dollar range.  Books average much longer (probably twice as long) but that doesn't explain the cost increases.

Still, you are correct that prices really are not what should justify better editing. 

[jimmy olsen]

]

On another note, I picked up Steven Erikson's Gardens of the Moon. Again. And actually got through it this time. It is actually really quite good, once you get into it. I am looking forward to some more.

Again, an author with some obvious weaknesses in his writing, but the things he does well make the story compelling.

I've tried to get through it twice and failed. Sell me on it.