Moore Oklahoma Obliterated by F5 Tornado, 24 dead, at least 9 of them kids

[fhdz]

Odd that such supposedly religious people do not really get prayer and seem to think it is some sort of magical spell.

Since the only other benefit appears to be calming the person praying, they're probably somewhat justified in wishing their god would do a little bit more.

[crazy canuck]

You know the Salvation Army is a church right?  Prayer is kinda their thing.

You know that was my point right - not giving to charities that make faith a priority 

[merithyn]

Odd that such supposedly religious people do not really get prayer and seem to think it is some sort of magical spell. 

Clearly, there isn't enough naked dancing in Oklahoma.

[Barrister]

You know the Salvation Army is a church right?  Prayer is kinda their thing.

You know that was my point right - not giving to charities that make faith a priority 

Which would be a shame since the Sally Ann is a fabulous organization who give aid to some of the least marketable causes going - the homeless.

[OttoVonBismarck]

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

About what? Everything I said about surviving a tornado is true--in most areas that have properly working sirens they sound them off when well known tornado-signatures in the cell form, this is usually around 15 minutes before the funnel cloud will form and reach ground. In areas where that is true, and you can get underground within 15 minutes time, surviving a tornado is very likely--what I said about being fully protecting when you are underground is well known. The only real danger is if the roof above you is ripped off and debris falls on top of you (which is impossible in the way true storm shelters are built.)

When it came to schools, as I said, I assumed schools would all have tornado shelters in tornado alley. If for no other reason than most schools I went to stateside growing up had bomb shelters from the Cold War era and those in addition to what I assumed would have been purpose built tornado shelters should have been ubiquitous. But like I said in my post, I was making an assumption. I never presented myself as a learned expert on school construction. It obviously is not actually that common in Oklahoma for anyone to have a tornado shelter.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I understand that both of the Oklahoma senators voted against Hurricane Katrina aid. I wonder if they think Oklahoma will need federal aid now.

In their defense they are doing the same thing with the aid here they did for Superstorm Sandy. They are not saying they won't vote for aid, they're saying they will only vote for aid if it is offset by cuts elsewhere. Basically they are arguing natural disaster aid should be "spending neutral", and that a natural disaster might warrant specific Federal spending but it also would warrant special belt-tightening in other areas. Without offering an opinion on that concept, I will say to their credit they are saying the same thing now--any aid their State receives should be offset by spending cuts elsewhere.

[Razgovory]

You know the Salvation Army is a church right?  Prayer is kinda their thing.

You know that was my point right - not giving to charities that make faith a priority 

You seemed surprised and disappointment that they started talking about prayer, which would be odd if you knew before hand if it was church.

[Razgovory]

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

About what? Everything I said about surviving a tornado is true--in most areas that have properly working sirens they sound them off when well known tornado-signatures in the cell form, this is usually around 15 minutes before the funnel cloud will form and reach ground. In areas where that is true, and you can get underground within 15 minutes time, surviving a tornado is very likely--what I said about being fully protecting when you are underground is well known. The only real danger is if the roof above you is ripped off and debris falls on top of you (which is impossible in the way true storm shelters are built.)

When it came to schools, as I said, I assumed schools would all have tornado shelters in tornado alley. If for no other reason than most schools I went to stateside growing up had bomb shelters from the Cold War era and those in addition to what I assumed would have been purpose built tornado shelters should have been ubiquitous. But like I said in my post, I was making an assumption. I never presented myself as a learned expert on school construction. It obviously is not actually that common in Oklahoma for anyone to have a tornado shelter.

No, you can't easily "dodge" a tornado.  They appear in storm lines hundreds of miles long.  They also appear unpredictably.  One may come down, hit the ground, travel around for 10 minutes then disappear or go back up into the sky.  You also "assumed" incorrectly.  Most schools don't have basements with enough room to house all the kids.  In fact, I've never seen one that does.  Usually the basements are used for storage.  Tornado drill is you go into the hallway, crouch down and kiss your own ass.  As it happens basements are fairly uncommon in that area.

It's one of the most familiar pieces of advice from authorities to people in the path of a tornado: Get into your basement. Yet few homes in the Oklahoma City area have them -- even though that state is hit by far more powerful tornadoes than most others.

"Probably less than one tenth of one percent" of the houses in Moore are built with basements, said Mike Hancock, president of Basement Contractors in Edmond, Oklahoma.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/22/us/oklahoma-tornado-basements/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[crazy canuck]

You know the Salvation Army is a church right?  Prayer is kinda their thing.

You know that was my point right - not giving to charities that make faith a priority 

Which would be a shame since the Sally Ann is a fabulous organization who give aid to some of the least marketable causes going - the homeless.

There are lots of other worthy organizations out there that dont tie their aid to religion.

[crazy canuck]

You know the Salvation Army is a church right?  Prayer is kinda their thing.

You know that was my point right - not giving to charities that make faith a priority 

You seemed surprised and disappointment that they started talking about prayer, which would be odd if you knew before hand if it was church.

I was surprised to the extent that they stressed prayer over aid.  I put it down to the representatives being from the USA where religion seems to be tied even more closely to whatever the organation is doing.  As I said, it is a very good reminder to give to organizations who do not tie good works to religion.

[Razgovory]

Did they stress prayer over aid or did they stress prayer?  The Salvation Army is a church, prayer is sort of their thing.  Most people don't wig out in this country when someone says "God" or "Prayer".

[OttoVonBismarck]

I don't even know why I try with you. Did you not read my post where I said, "I assumed schools would all have tornado shelters in tornado alley....I never presented myself as a learned expert on school construction. It obviously is not actually that common in Oklahoma for anyone to have a tornado shelter." So in response to me saying I was incorrect about tornado shelters being a common thing, you point out that I was being incorrect. Makes me think you did not even read my post.

I also never claimed dodging a tornado was the best option, what I said was with the typical 15 minute warning that is enough time to get into a sheltered area if you have a shelter. If you don't have a shelter, it may not be unless one is close by. You're mostly wrong about them appearing in storm lines hundreds of miles long, the strongest tornadoes almost exclusively appear in super cells which are typically not part of a "hundreds of mile long storm line." (The ones that form in Florida tend to be associated with different types of storms, but also tend to be EF0/EF1 and are less of a concern. You can actually drive a car through an EF0 tornado and not even have it flip over if you're willing to risk debris fucking your car up.

You are also mostly incorrect about the unpredictability of tornadoes. No one can predict precisely where a tornado will land or what direction it will move in once it does, but the signatures in the storm can always be detected prior to tornado formation if the local radar infrastructure allows for it. Now, those signatures can occur even when a tornado doesn't, so you'll have false alarms (in fact anyone who lives in tornado country hears far more sirens associated with false alarms than with real tornadoes.) But generally no, the tornado doesn't form without those precursor signatures and those usually start around 15 minutes before a tornado forms. FWIW that is exactly what happened in Moore, alarms went off 15 minutes prior to touchdown. Not everyone was able to take adequate shelter.

[derspiess]

Languish is a weird place.

[Admiral Yi]

The Salvation Army is a church

No.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I don't really care what a charitable organization stresses religiously. I care about what % of their budget is administrative overhead and whether or not they're using money to proselytize. I give money directly to my Diocese that they can use for whatever, that's what tithing is. But when I donate to any charity be it Catholic or not I won't do so unless the vast majority of their money is spent on charitable activity.