2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Tonitrus]

Finding those immigrants would be difficult, experts said. Police officers across the country would need to ask people for proof of residency or citizenship during traffic stops and street encounters. The Border Patrol would need highway checkpoints across the Southwest and near the Canadian border. To avoid racial profiling, any American could expect to be stopped and asked for papers.

[/quote]

You obviously haven't driven the major highways of Texas, or the southern border states, in the last several years.  We already have those checkpoints.

[Berkut]

The Dems have been in power for 16 of the last 24 years, including the last 8, and have done NOTHING.

I'm not sure this is true.  In order for there to be meaningful steps taken to curb corruption it will require changes in the laws.  Far too much of it is perfectly legal, which means the executive can do relatively little about it.  Until Congress decides to tackle it the president isn't in a position to fight corruption effectively.

Good point! So can you let me know how many times Obama and Clinton asked Congress to change the laws to address this corruption, and how many bills the Democrats in congress tried to pass to address it?

Can you show me how the Democrats worked against those who funded them in favor of their voters, fought that good fight, even if they eventually lost much of the time?

They are not even trying. Not even a little bit. The best they are doing is trying not to be as obvious about it as the GOP, and sometimes not even trying hard at that.

[jimmy olsen]

I love that Tim considers enforcing laws and actually having borders "ethnic cleansing".

Did you read anything that was written there? That wasn't penned by some liberal bleeding heart, but by one of Bush's DHS secretaries. It cannot be done without turning the nation into a police state.

It is absolutely ethnic cleansing. Operation Wetback which Trump wishes to pattern his program on caught many thousands of American citizens in its net and deported them, and the same would happen here on a much vaster scale. Trump's wing of the party explicitly wants to get rid of birthright citizenship and all the children who have benefited from it. When he says Make America Great again, he means Make America White Again.

[jimmy olsen]

I love that Tim considers enforcing laws and actually having borders "ethnic cleansing".

Yep.  Plus IIRC he was dismayed by a report a few years ago that illegal immigration had briefly declined.

Indeed, it's bad for the country economically and socialy.

Of course, I don't believe there should be immigration laws at all. Open borders 19th century style. If you can get here, you're welcome to stay. If they commit a felony, deport them, otherwise who cares.

[CountDeMoney]

Of course, I don't believe there should be immigration laws at all. Open borders 19th century style. If you can get here, you're welcome to stay. If they commit a felony, deport them, otherwise who cares.

Pretty funny coming from an immigrant on the other side of the globe.

[jimmy olsen]

Of course, I don't believe there should be immigration laws at all. Open borders 19th century style. If you can get here, you're welcome to stay. If they commit a felony, deport them, otherwise who cares.

Pretty funny coming from an immigrant on the other side of the globe.

I've always believed that.

Not sure why that matters? It's not like I'm never coming back.

[CountDeMoney]

Not sure why that matters? It's not like I'm never coming back.

When President Trump interns you on suspicion of being a North Korean agent, then it'll matter.

[Admiral Yi]

Of course, I don't believe there should be immigration laws at all. Open borders 19th century style. If you can get here, you're welcome to stay. If they commit a felony, deport them, otherwise who cares.

How many people do you think would show up in the first year of your new immigration non-law?

[DGuller]

The problem with open immigration laws is that they don't mesh well with social safety nets.  In 19th century, immigrants didn't immediately start off with a vastly better quality of life, they merely started with the better opportunity to get it.  Often they actually took a hit in the short term, in exchange for the promise of a better tomorrow.

These days, even in the US, being the poorest of the poor will still be an immediate boost over the conditions in many of the countries.  Therefore, the natural barriers to immigration are a lot weaker than they were in the period of open immigration, and the immigration rate will be far too great to not be disruptive for the host country.

[alfred russel]

I love that Tim considers enforcing laws and actually having borders "ethnic cleansing".

Did you read anything that was written there? That wasn't penned by some liberal bleeding heart, but by one of Bush's DHS secretaries. It cannot be done without turning the nation into a police state.

It is absolutely ethnic cleansing. Operation Wetback which Trump wishes to pattern his program on caught many thousands of American citizens in its net and deported them, and the same would happen here on a much vaster scale. Trump's wing of the party explicitly wants to get rid of birthright citizenship and all the children who have benefited from it. When he says Make America Great again, he means Make America White Again.

Tim, you are stupid.

Operation Wetback was not ethnic cleansing. Many if not most nations lack birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens. I've never heard a Trump proposal to strip US citizenship from children who already have it.

I don't know if you've done the math on this, but deporting 100% of illegal immigrants will still leave most blacks, asians, and -- shocker! -- hispanics in this country. The most extreme version of his proposals, even if implemented with 100% success, are not going to make America dramatically whiter than it is.

[alfred russel]

I now see how Trump may be the next president.

Basically lots of people that are potential republican voters are turned off by Trump, and so I've assumed that in a roughly 50-50 country, those people staying home or voting for Hillary will make Clinton president.

But with 5-6 months of having to listen to hysterical hyperbole from people like Tim, I imagine the backlash will be significant.

[jimmy olsen]

I love that Tim considers enforcing laws and actually having borders "ethnic cleansing".

Did you read anything that was written there? That wasn't penned by some liberal bleeding heart, but by one of Bush's DHS secretaries. It cannot be done without turning the nation into a police state.

It is absolutely ethnic cleansing. Operation Wetback which Trump wishes to pattern his program on caught many thousands of American citizens in its net and deported them, and the same would happen here on a much vaster scale. Trump's wing of the party explicitly wants to get rid of birthright citizenship and all the children who have benefited from it. When he says Make America Great again, he means Make America White Again.

Tim, you are stupid.

Operation Wetback was not ethnic cleansing. Many if not most nations lack birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens. I've never heard a Trump proposal to strip US citizenship from children who already have it.

I don't know if you've done the math on this, but deporting 100% of illegal immigrants will still leave most blacks, asians, and -- shocker! -- hispanics in this country. The most extreme version of his proposals, even if implemented with 100% success, are not going to make America dramatically whiter than it is.

Crack open a history book. Operation Wetback deported thousands of Americans whose families had been citizens since the border changed in the Mexican American War. It was absolutely ethnic cleansing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/25/donald-trump/trump-many-scholars-say-anchor-babies-arent-covere/

"Many of the great scholars say that anchor babies are not covered" by the 14th Amendment.

— Donald Trump on Wednesday, August 19th, 2015 in a town hall in Derry, N.H.

[alfred russel]

Crack open a history book. Operation Wetback deported thousands of Americans whose families had been citizens since the border changed in the Mexican American War. It was absolutely ethnic cleansing.

BY MISTAKE.

Tim, surely you recognize that the program was not out to ethnically cleanse the US of hispanics. If it was, it would have been far far different. It would have intended to deport hispanics, not just those in the country illegally.

"Many of the great scholars say that anchor babies are not covered" by the 14th Amendment.

— Donald Trump on Wednesday, August 19th, 2015 in a town hall in Derry, N.H.

Which is a part of the argument to end birthright citizenship for people born in the US to people without legal immigration status, and to do so without a constitutional amendment.

That is not a proposal to strip citizenship from people that already have been granted it.

[jimmy olsen]

Crack open a history book. Operation Wetback deported thousands of Americans whose families had been citizens since the border changed in the Mexican American War. It was absolutely ethnic cleansing.

BY MISTAKE.

Tim, surely you recognize that the program was not out to ethnically cleanse the US of hispanics. If it was, it would have been far far different. It would have intended to deport hispanics, not just those in the country illegally.

"Many of the great scholars say that anchor babies are not covered" by the 14th Amendment.

— Donald Trump on Wednesday, August 19th, 2015 in a town hall in Derry, N.H.

Which is a part of the argument to end birthright citizenship for people born in the US to people without legal immigration status, and to do so without a constitutional amendment.

That is not a proposal to strip citizenship from people that already have been granted it.

Yeah, just like literacy tests disenfranchised blacks by mistake. It was really intended to just keep the literate from voting, honest!

The point of contention between us is that you assume that Trump will follow the law, and I assume he will not. Given that, there's no way that one of us will convince the other. I sincerely hope that you are correct.

[alfred russel]

Yeah, just like literacy tests disenfranchised blacks by mistake. It was really intended to just keep the literate from voting, honest!

No, there were millions of hispanics living quite openly in the US that were here legally and not deported. Because that was not the point.

The literacy tests were absolutely about keeping blacks from voting. Some of them were written in ways that were impossible to pass, and very few blacks in the deep south were able to vote, despite many being literate.

The point of contention between us is that you assume that Trump will follow the law, and I assume he will not. Given that, there's no way that one of us will convince the other. I sincerely hope that you are correct.

No, that is absolutely not the point of contention.

The point of contention is that I think Trump is a trainwreck of a presidential candidate and would be a trainwreck of a president. But instead of focusing on his actual platform and flaws, you are intent to exaggerate. Which, in the end, is only going to push people into voting for him.