2016 elections - because it's never too early

Started by merithyn, May 09, 2013, 07:37:45 AM

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Admiral Yi

#10065
May 10, 2016, 03:43:30 PM
Feel free to elaborate about Democratic voting shenanigans.  This is the first I've heard about it.

Barrister

#10066
May 10, 2016, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 10, 2016, 03:39:38 PM
Leaving aside the issue of voting shenanigans, much of Clinton's lead is from early voters, indicating that her support has been dropping, while Sanders' has been climbing.

This part is just anecdotal, but the Sanders GOTV efforts hit the point of being annoying, while I have yet to hear a peep from the Clinton side.

Finally, I believe there has been a positive correlation between high turnout and Sanders victories. Clinton has done better in states where the Democratic vote was actively suppressed.

"early voters" - has nothing to do with the fact that Clinton's lead is dropping, and everything to do with the fact that the South voted early and she owned the south (and black voters).  When it's come back to the east and midwest Sanders is doing better, but at best he only narrowly defeats Clinton (like in Indiana), which doesn't make up for the massive whole Sanders caused by being non-competitive in the south.

And link me on "voting shenanigans".
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

The Brain

#10067
May 10, 2016, 03:52:17 PM
Lead does that.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Valmy

#10069
May 10, 2016, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 10, 2016, 03:39:38 PM
Leaving aside the issue of voting shenanigans, much of Clinton's lead is from early voters, indicating that her support has been dropping, while Sanders' has been climbing.

Well yeah you guys are basically attacking her as a monster while Clinton has not really gone after Sanders since she needs his supporters in the general. But also he is doing well in states he is supposed to do well in.

Quoteinally, I believe there has been a positive correlation between high turnout and Sanders victories. Clinton has done better in states where the Democratic vote was actively suppressed.

That is certainly not true in Texas and we are the second largest state.  Any joe can just randomly walk up and vote in our Democratic Primary.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#10070
May 10, 2016, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 10, 2016, 03:56:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 10, 2016, 03:43:30 PM
Feel free to elaborate about Democratic voting shenanigans.  This is the first I've heard about it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-york-voter-problems-investigation_us_5717ec85e4b0479c59d6e761
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/riley-waggaman/its-not-just-arizona-elec_b_9550670.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/3/23/1505343/-Myths-About-Election-Irregularities-and-Suppression-in-Arizona
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/19/politics/new-york-primary-voter-problem-polls-sanders-de-blasio/
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=democratic+primary+irregularities

It makes no sense the Clinton would be evilly doing this behind the scenes and one of your websites even debunks this as impacting Democrats of all sorts, not just independents trying to support Bernie. Further even if every vote the New Yorkers incompetently bungled was for Bernie the numbers do not suggest that in Iowa, Massachussets, Arizona, or New York delegates that would have to be switched would impact much. She still has a pretty substantial lead.

Despite the Sanders camp trying to paint her as some power hungry monster she did drop out in 2008 for Obama, and let me remind you in that primary she got more votes. So why should she have gotten more evil in the past 8 years?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Jacob

#10071
May 10, 2016, 04:06:00 PM

derspiess

#10072
May 10, 2016, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2016, 04:05:10 PM
It makes no sense the Clinton would be evilly doing this behind the scenes

Of course not.  She's a saint.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Maximus

#10073
May 10, 2016, 04:08:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2016, 03:58:24 PM

Well yeah you guys are basically attacking her as a monster while Clinton has not really gone after Sanders since she needs his supporters in the general.
"You guys"?

And the rest of that has certainly not been true in my experience.

Clinton would be a fine president and if she gets the nomination I will vote for her. To paraphrase someone, she the best candidate for the system we have, just not for the system we want. She's certainly very capable, as evidenced by the machine she has spent her career building. That's great if you like a machine-based system.

Savonarola

#10074
May 10, 2016, 04:10:32 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 10, 2016, 03:56:24 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-york-voter-problems-investigation_us_5717ec85e4b0479c59d6e761

Michigan's system is clearly superior.  In Detroit they would have added 120,000 voters to the register. 

;)
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

Valmy

#10075
May 10, 2016, 04:11:23 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 10, 2016, 04:10:32 PM
Michigan's system is clearly superior.  In Detroit they would have added 120,000 voters to the register.

;)

We will see if Illinois can pick up the gauntlet thrown.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

#10076
May 10, 2016, 04:12:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2016, 04:11:23 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 10, 2016, 04:10:32 PM
Michigan's system is clearly superior.  In Detroit they would have added 120,000 voters to the register.

;)

We will see if Illinois can pick up the gauntlet thrown.

Illinois will easily hit 103% voter turnout. :thumbsup:
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

#10077
May 10, 2016, 04:12:47 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 10, 2016, 04:08:17 PM
"You guys"?

You are right. Sorry typing quick here.

QuoteClinton would be a fine president and if she gets the nomination I will vote for her. To paraphrase someone, she the best candidate for the system we have, just not for the system we want. She's certainly very capable, as evidenced by the machine she has spent her career building. That's great if you like a machine-based system.

And I will certainly suck it up and vote for Bernie if I have to. He may have ideas I loathe but at least he is an experienced statesmen.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#10078
May 10, 2016, 04:17:57 PM
I will also say that the US tends towards machine politics but every once in a while there is a populist uprising which reforms the system. We have been in the middle of that uprising for awhile now, I wonder how far it will go. The Machine has scored a few important Supreme Court decisions but if popular momentum goes far enough we will see.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Maximus

#10079
May 10, 2016, 04:18:30 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 10, 2016, 04:06:00 PM

Yeah, and Sanders campaign has its share too:
http://qz.com/605968/bernie-sanders-campaign-is-not-quite-what-it-seems/
http://correctrecord.org/bernies-dirty-tricks-the-vermont-socialists-troubling-history-of-campaign-shenanigans/
QuoteABOUT

Correct The Record is a strategic research and rapid response team designed to defend Hillary Clinton from baseless attacks.
:lol:
Quote
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-02-16/foes-past-and-present-say-sanders-uses-same-tactics-he-criticizes

And here's some debunking of some of the Sanders allegations: http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/10/hillary-clinton-versus-bernie-sanders-debunking-some-election-fraud-allegations/
doesn't even mention Arizona or New York
Quote
Mostly the allegations have been overenthusiastic supporters flying off half-cocked to justify to themselves why their candidate is falling behind. Like here: http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-chicago-ballot/
I'm sure it's quite easy to find examples of people doing that.
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