2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Capetan Mihali]

Yeah but then given the generally hostile and belligrent attitude Israel has, how different is that?

Towards us? They just ignore us alot. Annoying but not belligerent or hostile.

They don't ignore us a lot, they actively refuse to cooperate with our gentle suggestions and undermine our interests in the region.

[DGuller]

After having the shit kicked out of them initially, displaying all kinds of incompetence and shameful (for the military) unpreparedness, before Egypt made a strategic retreat, forcing the Israelis to overextend themselves, getting close to a billion bucks a year out of it.  Can't see it as anything but an overall Egyptian victory, compared to the status quo antebellum.

I think in your reflexive distaste of everything Israeli, you're deliberately confusing military and strategic victory.  Militarily Egypt was on the ropes when the war ended, regardless of initial gains they made.  Had the war continued further, the military disaster they faced would've materialized.  Strategically they did eventually gain from that war, but so did Israel.  Your gloating is a bit misplaced and not supported factually.

[Valmy]

It's not EU2.  What other Arab country gets close to 1 billion a year from the US?  You think the '73 war had nothing to do with that?

Oh so when we give money to Arabs it is because of their eternal glory? I thought it was to get them to do something they didn't want to do. Our only successful land for peace deal 

Kind of sad really 

[Malthus]

By your standards, Germany won WW2. 

If they lost as many men as Egypt did in 1973, I'd say West Germany certainly would have, considering Cairo wasn't flattened and the civilian casualties were pretty minimal.

It's not EU2.  What other Arab country gets close to 1 billion a year from the US?  You think the '73 war had nothing to do with that?

Wait, you are saying Egypt "won" against Israel because the US gives them cash? But at the very same time, complaining that the US gives Israel even more cash? 

[Valmy]

They don't ignore us a lot, they actively refuse to cooperate with our gentle suggestions and undermine our interests in the region.

True. But to be fair, by Middle Eastern standards, this still makes them our best friends

[DGuller]

By your standards, Germany won WW2. 

If they lost as many men as Egypt did in 1973, I'd say West Germany certainly would have, considering Cairo wasn't flattened and the civilian casualties were pretty minimal.

It's not EU2.  What other Arab country gets close to 1 billion a year from the US?  You think the '73 war had nothing to do with that?

Wait, you are saying Egypt "won" against Israel because the US gives them cash? But at the very same time, complaining that the US gives Israel even more cash? 

Israel won more.

[Eddie Teach]

Wait, you are saying Egypt "won" against Israel because the US gives them cash? But at the very same time, complaining that the US gives Israel even more cash? 

We should have fought back, that war was expensive. 

[Valmy]

We should have fought back, that war was expensive. 

Boy you got that right.

[Malthus]

Wait, you are saying Egypt "won" against Israel because the US gives them cash? But at the very same time, complaining that the US gives Israel even more cash? 

We should have fought back, that war was expensive. 

So true.

[Capetan Mihali]

It's not EU2.  What other Arab country gets close to 1 billion a year from the US?  You think the '73 war had nothing to do with that?

Oh so when we give money to Arabs it is because of their eternal glory? I thought it was to get them to do something they didn't want to do.

We give 30% of what we give to Israel not to fuck with our "ally" and trap the Gazans in their open-air prison from both sides.  Which is why Sadat was assassinated.  But it's because he achieved a military victory, strategic as DGuller rightly notes, over Israel.  "Eternal glory" was never mentioned and is a non-sequitur.

[Capetan Mihali]

Wait, you are saying Egypt "won" against Israel because the US gives them cash? But at the very same time, complaining that the US gives Israel even more cash? 

Israel gets its three bil of my money for a lot more reasons than the '73 war.  For an Arab state, Egypt was tremendously successful in getting US cash doled out, albeit at 30% of what Israel gets.  I've never expressed any support for Egyptian military aid; but I sure as hell wouldn't want Egypt's money to be withdrawn without the same done to Israel.

[DGuller]

But it's because he achieved a military victory, strategic as DGuller rightly notes, over Israel.  "Eternal glory" was never mentioned and is a non-sequitur.

I did not say that Egypt achieved victory, military or otherwise, please do not put words in my mouth.  What happened as a result of this war was that Israel and Egypt stopped fighting each other.  That was a win-win for both, as peace usually is.  It was not a "victory" for Egypt as a country:  they could've achieved almost the same result without going through another military disaster.

If you do have to assign a victory to one of them, Israel should get it.  Of the two countries, Israel was by far the one more motivated to get permanent peace, and they finally got it after 1973 war.  Egypt "won" by hitting rock bottom, which was to its benefit in the long run but hardly what people refer to as "victory".

[Capetan Mihali]

Israel won more.

Israel won over the US more, that's indisputable.  But I'd say given their starting positions and ultimate outcome, Egypt won more in '73.

[Capetan Mihali]

But it's because he achieved a military victory, strategic as DGuller rightly notes, over Israel.  "Eternal glory" was never mentioned and is a non-sequitur.

I did not say that Egypt achieved victory, military or otherwise, please do not put words in my mouth.  What happened as a result of this war was that Israel and Egypt stopped fighting each other.  That was a win-win for both, as peace usually is.  It was not a "victory" for Egypt as a country:  they could've achieved almost the same result without going through another military disaster.

If you do have to assign a victory to one of them, Israel should get it.  Of the two countries, Israel was by far the one more motivated to get permanent peace, and they finally got it after 1973 war.  Egypt "won" by hitting rock bottom, which was to its benefit in the long run but hardly what people refer to as "victory".

  A $4 billion US taxpayer win-win.

EDIT:  And go ahead and ask the Gazans if they feel it was a win-win.

[Malthus]

It's not EU2.  What other Arab country gets close to 1 billion a year from the US?  You think the '73 war had nothing to do with that?

Oh so when we give money to Arabs it is because of their eternal glory? I thought it was to get them to do something they didn't want to do.

We give 30% of what we give to Israel not to fuck with our "ally" and trap the Gazans in their open-air prison from both sides.  Which is why Sadat was assassinated.  But it's because he achieved a military victory, strategic as DGuller rightly notes, over Israel.  "Eternal glory" was never mentioned and is a non-sequitur.

Dude. The money Egypt is getting isn't tribute for "winning". 

The notion was that the ME was an area of strategic interest to the US, who wanted, for several reasons, this bit of it to remain stable and not erupt in wars every decade or so, imperiling other vital interests in the area, such as the flow of ME oil: previous Arab-Israeli wars had contributed to oil price instability.

With a side order of (a) replacing Soviet influence in Egypt for good, and (b) subsidizing the US arms industry (the aid packages are tied to weapons purchases in the US).