2016 elections - because it's never too early

Started by merithyn, May 09, 2013, 07:37:45 AM

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derspiess

#7035
March 13, 2016, 09:14:41 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 13, 2016, 09:06:35 PM
Well, I never would have guessed that Marge Schott's manager would end up supporting Donald Trump.

:lol:  Now that you mention it, Marge was pretty much the female version of 2015-2016 Trump.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Camerus

#7036
March 13, 2016, 10:04:47 PM Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 10:07:24 PM by Camerus
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 13, 2016, 04:33:15 PM
Yeah, electoral mob violence has been part of American democracy for at least 200 years, like it or not.  I agree with LaCroix that a little bit of fisticuffs doesn't represent some existential crisis for our democracy.  Speaking of Chicago, it was only 1968 when all that fun stuff outside the Democratic Convention took place.

The point isn't so much that any violence whatsoever is unprecedented, and they have certainly been times when tensions have abated into greater calm. However, not only is it a very dark road to go down with no guarantee that this time things will be okay again, but even more importantly, this time there's a mainstream candidate who  is inciting his followers to violence, something which is fairly unprecedented in American democracy in at least the past 100 years.

Capetan Mihali

#7039
March 13, 2016, 10:52:06 PM
Quote from: Camerus on March 13, 2016, 10:04:47 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 13, 2016, 04:33:15 PM
Yeah, electoral mob violence has been part of American democracy for at least 200 years, like it or not.  I agree with LaCroix that a little bit of fisticuffs doesn't represent some existential crisis for our democracy.  Speaking of Chicago, it was only 1968 when all that fun stuff outside the Democratic Convention took place.

The point isn't so much that any violence whatsoever is unprecedented, and they have certainly been times when tensions have abated into greater calm. However, not only is it a very dark road to go down with no guarantee that this time things will be okay again, but even more importantly, this time there's a mainstream candidate who  is inciting his followers to violence, something which is fairly unprecedented in American democracy in at least the past 100 years.

I'm far from a Trump supporter, naturally, and I confess to not being entirely up on this electoral season's twists and turns, but AFAIK the Trumpist violence has been pretty minimal all things considered and his "incitement" has been pretty ambiguous. There may have been some new developments I missed, but my overall impression was that this was pretty far from a crisis in American democracy, however distasteful it is.
"The internet's completely over. [...] The internet's like MTV. At one time MTV was hip and suddenly it became outdated. Anyway, all these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers and that can't be good for you."
-- Prince, 2010. (R.I.P.)

Razgovory

#7040
March 13, 2016, 11:03:13 PM
Yeah, but this isn't 1968 and the violence is happening only with one group of people tied to one particular campaign.  Also

""If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously." He again promised to pay for any legal fees associated with an assault."

Seems fairly unambigious to me.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

derspiess

#7041
March 13, 2016, 11:26:43 PM
I have no problem with that. People throwing tomatoes should get roughed up.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Eddie Teach

#7042
March 13, 2016, 11:28:18 PM
Some might consider vegetable throwing an act of violence itself.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

alfred russel

#7043
March 13, 2016, 11:50:36 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 13, 2016, 11:28:18 PM
Some might consider vegetable throwing an act of violence itself.

I think it is.

I posted this upthread, I think it is a better example:

Have you guys seen the video of the guy at the trump rally straight up sucker punching a protester being taken out of the arena by the police? Apparently Trump is considering paying his legal fees and referred to him as a guy who "obviously loves his country." Trump expounded on why the sucker punch was provoked, "he was sticking a certain finger up in the air. And that is a terrible thing to do in front of somebody that frankly wants to see America made great again."

The punch thrower is apparently quite contrite. "He deserved it," McGraw said. "The next time we see him, we might have to kill him."

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-pay-legal-fees-sucker-punch-protester-162717932.html
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Martinus

#7045
March 14, 2016, 01:33:47 AM Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 01:39:17 AM by Martinus
Quote from: alfred russel on March 13, 2016, 11:50:36 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 13, 2016, 11:28:18 PM
Some might consider vegetable throwing an act of violence itself.

I think it is.

I posted this upthread, I think it is a better example:

Have you guys seen the video of the guy at the trump rally straight up sucker punching a protester being taken out of the arena by the police? Apparently Trump is considering paying his legal fees and referred to him as a guy who "obviously loves his country." Trump expounded on why the sucker punch was provoked, "he was sticking a certain finger up in the air. And that is a terrible thing to do in front of somebody that frankly wants to see America made great again."

The punch thrower is apparently quite contrite. "He deserved it," McGraw said. "The next time we see him, we might have to kill him."

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-pay-legal-fees-sucker-punch-protester-162717932.html

Unless you think that the American justice system is so corrupt that if you get a good lawyer you get away with murder (and if you get a bad one, you are screwed even if you are innocent) then I don't see how paying someone's legal fees means you are condoning or inciting the act - it sounds more like being interested in a person getting a fair trial.

If a lawyer works pro bono on a case it doesn't mean he is necessarily condoning some act either.

Also, having read the article you linked, your "synopsis" does not appear like that in it at all - you have just picked and chosen some few lines taken out of context to make them appear like the narrative of Trump supporting it is unambiguous - while from the entirety of his comments it clearly isn't. Well done, Dorsey, you haven't changed from the intellectually dishonest dipshit we knew at Paradox.

Lettow77

#7046
March 14, 2016, 01:39:02 AM Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 01:41:27 AM by Lettow77
 With Kasich looking to have a better-than-even shot at Ohio, he might have been better served by Romney staying at home. If that's how he feels about it, couldn't he have just donated a bunch of money?
It can't be helped...We'll have to use 'that'

Admiral Yi

#7047
March 14, 2016, 01:48:41 AM
 :lol: Marty is in rare form.

Eddie Teach

#7048
March 14, 2016, 02:26:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 14, 2016, 01:33:47 AM
Also, having read the article you linked, your "synopsis" does not appear like that in it at all - you have just picked and chosen some few lines taken out of context to make them appear like the narrative of Trump supporting it is unambiguous - while from the entirety of his comments it clearly isn't.

Trump has a pretty shoddy record regarding protesters at his rallies, so it's easy to assume the worst. "Take his coat" "Rough them up a little" etc.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

garbon

#7049
March 14, 2016, 02:29:42 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 13, 2016, 07:27:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2016, 05:16:17 PM
Okay, so an irrelevant anecdote?

In the first place the anecdote was relevant. It wasn't an anecdote about a stabbing over 2% milk versus whole milk.

No the anecdote was irrelevant as it had little light to shed on the current situation*. Kind of like the rest of your post that I truncated out - though arguably that bit was worse than the original post as it least in the original post you weren't trying to make up what I was saying. :o

*That you heard of two people who got in a fight about politics in '08 says nothing about whether we should be concerned about what's happening now.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.
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