2016 elections - because it's never too early

[derspiess]

Let's be plain.  This is a man who as part of his official campaign pronouncements has cited the 1950s era "Opearation Weback" as a model for immigration policy, who cited Japanese internment as a model for his policy re Muslim entry, and played footsie with the Klan.  This is not a dog whistle politics.  This is a lifeguard whistle blowing loud and clear.   It doesn't matter whether Trump truly is a racist (he has Black friends!) or whether he would govern more moderately than (say) Cruz, or whether he is just responding to working-class "anger".  There are lines that once crossed should be disqualifying to maintain a claim to be a decent society.  Trump crossed them, there is no defense.

Hmm, someone feels threatened.

[Razgovory]

I have no problem with that. People throwing tomatoes leftists should get roughed up.

[derspiess]

 

[Razgovory]

Just caught a video on my phone of gangs of union thugs in full riot mode up in Lansing, shouting obscenities, death threats, physically assaulting women, etc.  Do you really want to side with human garbage like that?

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,13.msg514015.html#msg514015

Seems you have some sympathy for human garbage as well.

[derspiess]

Razzmemory strikes again!  Of course you know I was kidding.  I don't want you roughed up. 


Not today anyway.

[garbon]

Let's be plain.  This is a man who as part of his official campaign pronouncements has cited the 1950s era "Opearation Weback" as a model for immigration policy, who cited Japanese internment as a model for his policy re Muslim entry, and played footsie with the Klan.  This is not a dog whistle politics.  This is a lifeguard whistle blowing loud and clear.   It doesn't matter whether Trump truly is a racist (he has Black friends!) or whether he would govern more moderately than (say) Cruz, or whether he is just responding to working-class "anger".  There are lines that once crossed should be disqualifying to maintain a claim to be a decent society.  Trump crossed them, there is no defense.

Hmm, someone feels threatened.

Do you have to feel threatened to want to maintain standards of decency?

[Camerus]

Yeah, electoral mob violence has been part of American democracy for at least 200 years, like it or not.  I agree with LaCroix that a little bit of fisticuffs doesn't represent some existential crisis for our democracy.  Speaking of Chicago, it was only 1968 when all that fun stuff outside the Democratic Convention took place.

The point isn't so much that any violence whatsoever is unprecedented, and they have certainly been times when tensions have abated into greater calm. However, not only is it a very dark road to go down with no guarantee that this time things will be okay again, but even more importantly, this time there's a mainstream candidate who  is inciting his followers to violence, something which is fairly unprecedented in American democracy in at least the past 100 years.

I'm far from a Trump supporter, naturally, and I confess to not being entirely up on this electoral season's twists and turns, but AFAIK the Trumpist violence has been pretty minimal all things considered and his "incitement" has been pretty ambiguous. There may have been some new developments I missed, but my overall impression was that this was pretty far from a crisis in American democracy, however distasteful it is.

It's not exactly a crisis for American democracy at the moment, I agree, but it's definitely a profound step in the wrong direction and could possibly  (though not necessarily) be setting recent precedents taking us down a darker path.

[LaCroix]

see, I think it's a fluke. someone can't win the (U.S.) presidency by acting the way trump has acted. his antics appeal to a sizable niche and disgust everyone else. that's why I don't see it as a big deal -- we'll put up with it this year, and then it'll be over.

[celedhring]

see, I think it's a fluke. someone can't win the (U.S.) presidency by acting the way trump has acted. his antics appeal to a sizable niche and disgust everyone else. that's why I don't see it as a big deal -- we'll put up with it this year, and then it'll be over.

Still, you'll end up having several million people voting for policies based on bigotry, fear, and disinformation, borne out from a quite possibly legitimate anger at how the system works and shows the middle finger to them. You can't just wave that away.

[LaCroix]

Still, you'll end up having several million people voting for policies based on bigotry, fear, and disinformation, borne out from a quite possibly legitimate anger at how the system works and shows the middle finger to them. You can't just wave that away.

been working for decades

[celedhring]

Still, you'll end up having several million people voting for policies based on bigotry, fear, and disinformation, borne out from a quite possibly legitimate anger at how the system works and shows the middle finger to them. You can't just wave that away.

been working for decades

And you get Trump now. Ignore it, and maybe the next one that appeals to that sentiment will actually win the presidency.

[LaCroix]

And you get Trump now. Ignore it, and maybe the next one that appeals to that sentiment will actually win the presidency.

I think we'd have gotten trump forty years ago. what I'm saying is I don't think anything has changed. the only thing I see changing post-trump is maybe a few copycats who pull off a really bad attempt at trumping

[Malthus]

see, I think it's a fluke. someone can't win the (U.S.) presidency by acting the way trump has acted. his antics appeal to a sizable niche and disgust everyone else. that's why I don't see it as a big deal -- we'll put up with it this year, and then it'll be over.

I keep seeing this repeated, and I wish it was true - but I am not convinced that it is.

After all, I never thought someone like Trump could score the Republican race, yet it looks like he will.

[LaCroix]

I keep seeing this repeated, and I wish it was true - but I am not convinced that it is.

After all, I never thought someone like Trump could score the Republican race, yet it looks like he will.

I see trump's success as being indicative of the republican party's recent incompetence. the tea party revolution really weakened the whole party, but I'm sure there are other factors. the fact that rubio is the leading establishment candidate is just sad. the party's failings has created massive holes, and that's why we have two non-establishment candidates at the top of the race. if trump were alone in dominating the establishment, then I could see more room to argue that something else is at play. but, it's trump and cruz

[The Brain]

see, I think it's a fluke. someone can't win the (U.S.) presidency by acting the way trump has acted. his antics appeal to a sizable niche and disgust everyone else. that's why I don't see it as a big deal -- we'll put up with it this year, and then it'll be over.

I keep seeing this repeated, and I wish it was true - but I am not convinced that it is.

After all, I never thought someone like Trump could score the Republican race, yet it looks like he will.

A rich white guy? Yea verily Judgement Day must be upon us. I saw a duck float on water the other week.