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2016 elections - because it's never too early

Started by merithyn, May 09, 2013, 07:37:45 AM

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garbon

I don't care that much about him. I simply don't want to hear people talk about him for 4 more years. :weep:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Martinus

I find it absolutely baffling that so many Republican commentators say they have been "blindsided" by Trump. He represents the values preached by that party at least since the late Bush era. He is the Tea Party personified.

Martinus

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2016, 03:01:44 AM
Seeing Trump cheated out of a nomination at a brokered convention would be more fun than seeing him lose it outright.

It would be great because he would surely run as an independent then, giving the victory on a silver platter to Hillary.

garbon

Quote from: Martinus on March 05, 2016, 05:06:43 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2016, 03:01:44 AM
Seeing Trump cheated out of a nomination at a brokered convention would be more fun than seeing him lose it outright.

It would be great because he would surely run as an independent then, giving the victory on a silver platter to Hillary.

If they are pushing for that, I don't think the GOP leadership would really be worried about winning general. They would just be wanting to stay in control of the party.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Martinus on March 05, 2016, 05:05:36 AM
I find it absolutely baffling that so many Republican commentators say they have been "blindsided" by Trump. He represents the values preached by that party at least since the late Bush era. He is the Tea Party personified.

While there is debate over what exactly constitutes the "Tea Party", that is not it.

Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio are much closer.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Legbiter

Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

Martinus


Eddie Teach

She likes her money more than recognition as a girl?  :lol:
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Legbiter

Peggy Noonan trying to talk the GOP establishment down from the ledge?.  :hmm:

QuoteDonald Trump won big Tuesday night, carrying seven states. As others have noted, if it were someone else he'd be called unassailable, the victor—"time to get in line."

If trends continue—and political trends tend to—Mr. Trump will win or come very close to winning by the convention in July. If party forces succeed in finagling him out of the nomination his supporters will bolt, which will break the party. And it's hard to see what kind of special sauce, what enduring loyalty would make them come back in the future.

If, on the other hand, Mr. Trump is given the crown in Cleveland, party political figures, operatives, loyalists, journalists and intellectuals, not to mention sophisticated suburbanites and, God knows, donors will themselves bolt. That is a smaller but not insignificant group. And again it's hard to imagine the special sauce—the shared interests, the basic worldview—that would allow them to reconcile with Trump supporters down the road.

It's no longer clear what shared principles endure. Everything got stretched to the breaking point the past 15 years.

Party leaders and thinkers should take note: It's easier for a base to hire or develop a flashy new establishment than it is for an establishment to find itself a new base.

Even if the party stays together with a Trump win, what will it be? It will have been reconstituted. Yes, it will be a formal and proactive foe of illegal immigration, and it will rethink its approach to entitlements, but it will also be other things. What?

We are in uncharted territory. But the point is fissures and tensions simmering and growing for 15 years burst through, erupted.

The establishment was slow to see what was happening, slow to see Mr. Trump coming, in full denial as he continued to win. Their denial is self-indicting. They couldn't see his appeal because they had no idea how their own people were experiencing America. I have been thinking a lot about establishments and elites. A central purpose of both, a prime responsibility, is to understand those who are not establishment and elite and look out for them, take care of them. Not in a government-from-on-high way, not with an air of noblesse oblige, but in a way that is respectfully attentive to the facts of their lives. You have a responsibility when you lead not to offend needlessly, not to impose realities you yourself can buy your way out of. You don't privately make fun of people as knuckle-draggers, victims of teachers-union educations, low-information voters.

We had a low-information elite.


This column has been pretty devoted the past nine months to everything that gave rise to this moment, to Mr. Trump. His supporters disrespect the system—fair enough, it's earned disrespect. They see Washington dysfunction and want to break through it—fair enough. In a world of thugs, they say, he will be our thug. Politics is a freak show? He's our freak. They know they're lowering standards by giving the top political job in America to a man who never held office. But they feel Washington lowered all standards first. They hate political correctness—there is no one in the country the past quarter-century who has not been embarrassed or humiliated for using the wrong word or concept or having the wrong thought—and see his rudeness as proof he hates PC too.

"He can think outside the box." Can he ever.

He is a one-man wrecking crew of all political comportment, and a carrier of that virus. Yet his appeal is not only his outrageousness.

He is a divider of the Republican Party and yet an enlarger of the tent. His candidacy is contributing to record turnouts in primary after primary, and surely bringing in Democrats and independents. But it should concern his supporters that his brain appears to be a grab bag of impulses, and although he has many views and opinions he doesn't seem to know anything about public policy or the way the White House or the government actually works.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-republican-party-is-shattering-1457050017
Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

garbon

I'm not sure about that. Her bit doesn't seem to suggest it will go well for the establishment even if they stick with him.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Norgy


Berkut

Quote from: garbon on March 05, 2016, 06:59:00 AM
I'm not sure about that. Her bit doesn't seem to suggest it will go well for the establishment even if they stick with him.

I don't think there is any illusion that things will go well if Trump is the nominee one way or the other.

I think Dems need to watch all this very closely, because this is NOT a Republican phenomenon, no matter how much they might want to believe it is. The trends that have made Trump viable are the same trends that made Sanders a surprise threat to what seemed like an obvious Clinton coronation.

Trump is  a symptom of a disease, not the disease. And much like others symptoms, he might be even more dangerous than the disease, but if he goes away somehow, the disease will still be there.

If Clinton ends up getting elected, which seems likely either way, then both parties need to start figuring out how to really begin to redress the systemic problems. Hell, maybe the specter of Trump is just what is needed to wake the "establishment" up and get them to actually start representing their constituents instead of their donors.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
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Martinus

Quote from: Berkut on March 05, 2016, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 05, 2016, 06:59:00 AM
I'm not sure about that. Her bit doesn't seem to suggest it will go well for the establishment even if they stick with him.

I don't think there is any illusion that things will go well if Trump is the nominee one way or the other.

I think Dems need to watch all this very closely, because this is NOT a Republican phenomenon, no matter how much they might want to believe it is. The trends that have made Trump viable are the same trends that made Sanders a surprise threat to what seemed like an obvious Clinton coronation.

Trump is  a symptom of a disease, not the disease. And much like others symptoms, he might be even more dangerous than the disease, but if he goes away somehow, the disease will still be there.

If Clinton ends up getting elected, which seems likely either way, then both parties need to start figuring out how to really begin to redress the systemic problems. Hell, maybe the specter of Trump is just what is needed to wake the "establishment" up and get them to actually start representing their constituents instead of their donors.

Yup. Both Bernie and Trump are the symptom of the same disease - disappearance of the centre. Trump symbolizes that on the cultural issues, and Bernie on economic/social issues.

On cultural issues, the leftist establishment has moved towards absurd stances, embracing ridiculous SJW stances, while the right has moved towards often extreme racism and xenophobia. On the economic/social issues, establishment has basically fucked the main street over, announcing a great recover, that did not really benefit the ordinary people at all. The moderate middle class gets fucked twice.

Martinus

Quote from: Norgy on March 05, 2016, 08:18:08 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on March 05, 2016, 05:12:27 AM
Caitlyn Jenner endorses, er, Ted Cruz.

http://injo.com/2016/03/551837-caitlyn-jenner-endorses-ted-cruz-president-trans-ambassador/

Trump to pick Kanye as Veep?

This is getting silly.

Don't be mean. Until he is declared legally insane, he can support whomever he likes.

dps

Quote from: Martinus on March 05, 2016, 11:40:20 AM
Quote from: Norgy on March 05, 2016, 08:18:08 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on March 05, 2016, 05:12:27 AM
Caitlyn Jenner endorses, er, Ted Cruz.

http://injo.com/2016/03/551837-caitlyn-jenner-endorses-ted-cruz-president-trans-ambassador/

Trump to pick Kanye as Veep?

This is getting silly.

Don't be mean. Until he is declared legally insane, he can support whomever he likes.

Actually, even the those declared legally insane can still support whomever they choose.  We just don't have to pay any attention to them. 

There's not point in paying attention to those who are merely inane celebrities, either, but people do so for some reason.