Open mariages and paternity

[merithyn]

Seems to me "act of will" covers it.

You would make the choice as an act of will - same as a parent who fills out the paperwork to adopt a kid they have never seen and are not related to from an agency.

For others, who have not made such an act of will, it takes time to get to know the kid and form a bond.

In either case, the bond is not made until it is made, and is not really revocable once made.

Right. Makes sense. My surprise stems only from the length of time it seems that would apply here to many of you guys (or at least the appearance of that length of time). Also, that some seem to think that it is, actually, revocable, if things go south with Mom, though that's a select few.

[Malthus]

Another question for the lawyers: If the bio dad vanishes, and the dad-by-choice stays, then mom dies, can bio-dad take the kid away from dad-by-choice? They both fit the definition of parent as Malthus stated it, right?

What about cases of surrogate mothers trying to get the kid later?

My understanding (based on jurisdiction, etc.) is that, if dad-by-choice has had the kid long enough to form a paternal bond in the eyes of a court, he wins. It would be (legally) messy if (say) mom died in childbirth.

Again, bio-dad has to have some evidence he really is bio-dad to even raise the issue.

[mongers]

"Open marriage" means the guy is gay. Do we want gays to raise children?

Hey now, he could just be a loser.

Yeah, that's my reading too.

[Barrister]

Another question for the lawyers: If the bio dad vanishes, and the dad-by-choice stays, then mom dies, can bio-dad take the kid away from dad-by-choice? They both fit the definition of parent as Malthus stated it, right?

What about cases of surrogate mothers trying to get the kid later?

It is likely going to depend on the particular laws of the area, and of course on the particular factual situation.

Bio dad may have difficulty even gaining standing.  You can't just go around to people and say "Hey I slept with your kids mom and I want a paternity test to prove it".  Even if genetic paternity is proven, bio dad may still not have standing (I did represent a dad who had a short fling with a girl who got pregnant and did want to be involved with the baby, but because they had never lived together standing was an issue).

Even once bio dad gets standing, the general presumption is going to be that they don't want to take kids away from the home they are in if the kid is flourishing.  But if bio dad can show he would provide a better environment, then maybe he can get custody of the kid.

I'm not sure what happens with surrogate mothers (who carry the baby, but not use her egg).  With adoptions I think there is a short window where the adopted mother can change her mind, but once the kid has been with the adoptive parents for a short period of time you can't go back.

[Solmyr]

Definitely agreed. That's why it's a good idea to know everything up-front and not find out years later. People just need to be honest with each other to avoid the damage. I think your cousin, even though he seems to be happy with the situation, should still know up front what the facts are. It might matter some time in the future.

The bolded part makes me think that you don't understand at all.

So, according to you, one cannot stop loving someone, ever? If it turns out something was the wrong choice, it is not allowed to be changed?

[merithyn]

Definitely agreed. That's why it's a good idea to know everything up-front and not find out years later. People just need to be honest with each other to avoid the damage. I think your cousin, even though he seems to be happy with the situation, should still know up front what the facts are. It might matter some time in the future.

The bolded part makes me think that you don't understand at all.

So, according to you, one cannot stop loving someone, ever? If it turns out something was the wrong choice, it is not allowed to be changed?

Not when that someone is a child that you've accepted as your own, no.

[MadImmortalMan]

Definitely agreed. That's why it's a good idea to know everything up-front and not find out years later. People just need to be honest with each other to avoid the damage. I think your cousin, even though he seems to be happy with the situation, should still know up front what the facts are. It might matter some time in the future.

The bolded part makes me think that you don't understand at all.

So, according to you, one cannot stop loving someone, ever? If it turns out something was the wrong choice, it is not allowed to be changed?

I think she misunderstood me to mean stop loving the kids. I would have had the same reaction. By people changing I meant stuff that might cause a divorce like abuse or some other change in the circumstances of the marriage.

[merithyn]

I think she misunderstood me to mean stop loving the kids. I would have had the same reaction. By people changing I meant stuff that might cause a divorce like abuse or some other change in the circumstances of the marriage.

That makes more sense.

[mongers]

I'm more interested in the motivation of the mother in the OP to give Meri a couple of pieces of gossip. 

Was she saying, hey, my son and wife are so modern and progressive. Or implying, man what a cuckold my son has turned into. Or yet something else ?

[merithyn]

I'm more interested in the motivation of the mother in the OP to give Meri a couple of pieces of gossip. 

Was she saying, hey, my son and wife are so modern and progressive. Or implying, man what a cuckold my son has turned into. Or yet something else ?

It's my cousin, whom I'm very close to. She was concerned about her son and needed to talk about what was going on. She's not at all pleased with the couple's relationship, and given that she makes derspiess seem like a Democrat, that's not all that surprising. "New" and "modern" ways of looking at life are not exactly her style. She knows that I'm a little bit more open-minded to these things, and she needed that balance.

(Open-minded as in I'm okay that others do this stuff, not open-minded as in I'm okay with this kind of relationship for myself.)

[mongers]

I'm more interested in the motivation of the mother in the OP to give Meri a couple of pieces of gossip. 

Was she saying, hey, my son and wife are so modern and progressive. Or implying, man what a cuckold my son has turned into. Or yet something else ?

It's my cousin, whom I'm very close to. She was concerned about her son and needed to talk about what was going on. She's not at all pleased with the couple's relationship, and given that she makes derspiess seem like a Democrat, that's not all that surprising. "New" and "modern" ways of looking at life are not exactly her style. She knows that I'm a little bit more open-minded to these things, and she needed that balance.

(Open-minded as in I'm okay that others do this stuff, not open-minded as in I'm okay with this kind of relationship for myself.)

Oh I see, yes, she's right to be worried.  The wife concerned seems like a nightmare, pulling this stunt within weeks of marriage, though in large part it's his fault for marrying her and enabling the stupidity.

My own view, Meri you should go full-bore judgemental on this.   

[alfred russel]

It seems incredibly selfish of the wife...First she was exposing her husband to the risk of disease. Second, possibly getting pregnant by another man opens up a bunch of complications (legal and otherwise) that are unnecessary.

[Eddie Teach]

Getting a paternity test would show that it DOES  matter to him.  Once you know "you are NOT the father" (to quote Maury) that knowledge will always impact your relationship with that child.

It matters to him whether he shows it or not. Knowing for sure would likely help his relationship with the kid if it is his, and if it's not the kid might have more to do with bio-dad.

[DontSayBanana]

It seems incredibly selfish of the wife...First she was exposing her husband to the risk of disease. Second, possibly getting pregnant by another man opens up a bunch of complications (legal and otherwise) that are unnecessary.

This.  There's a difference between an "open relationship" and refusing to close your legs.

[mongers]

It seems incredibly selfish of the wife...First she was exposing her husband to the risk of disease. Second, possibly getting pregnant by another man opens up a bunch of complications (legal and otherwise) that are unnecessary.

This.  There's a difference between an "open relationship" and refusing to close your legs.

It's more of a mind-fuck than that, as she choose to do it with his 'best-friend', maybe it wasn't intentional, but she must be aware of the impact that'll have on the mens friendship.
Then again I doubt the guy was really a best-friend' if he agree to go along with this, unless the woman is some unstopable force of nature.