Open mariages and paternity

[Malthus]

I think time might play a factor though in whether or not you'd want the child if you had to keep contact with someone you now hate*.

*So like child born on day 0, day 1 relationship with mother harmed irreparably and you know kid isn't biologically yours. Has enough time elapsed that you'd consider kid yours and fight to stay in contact?

I don't see biology as that important, so I just can't answer that. To me, whether the child is my blood or not, if I think of him/her as mine, he/she is mine, and therefore worth fighting over if need be. It seems that men - or at least many Languish men - feel differently.

I hear where you are comming from, but there must be more to it than a purely subjective test. I agree biology isn't determinative, but it must be based on something more than 'I have decided this child I have never seen and who is not related to me is mine'. 

[Malthus]

It sounds to me like he was trying to get out of being a father, and therefore tried to divorce himself financially from the child. Nowhere in this do you mention that he wanted or fought for more time with the child, only that he fought to avoid paying for her.

He wanted to be with the child, but the mother would not let him saying he was not the father and no rights.
So, in frustration, he decided not to pay for the kid's education.
She brought him to court, he lost.  He still can't see the child, but he has to pay.

Family law courts order access to children from parents who don't want to grant it all the time.

[Valmy]

I don't see biology as that important, so I just can't answer that. To me, whether the child is my blood or not, if I think of him/her as mine, he/she is mine, and therefore worth fighting over if need be. It seems that men - or at least many Languish men - feel differently.

So again if Jerry had a bunch of babies with other women and just brought them home and said 'well you are the momma now' that would not be different at all than if they were yours?  Not even a little bit?

Because that is the situation where biology is important.  If I already know the kid and think of him/her as mine than yeah biology is not that important.

[Eddie Teach]

Sure, whatever order you want ... but at the end of the day, if you are still married to this woman and living in the same residence as her and the kid, it's going to be hard to argue that you did not choose to be the father.

I say a divorce and a paternity test (in that order) for the simple reason that, if your marriage hinges on a paternity test, seems to me the actual relationship is over - I can't imagine any woman accepting "let's get a paternity test and if the kid passes, we stay married; if not, I hit the road".

Well, if the problem is with the kid and not with the sleeping around(what with the open marriage at all), it seems a pertinent consideration. And of course the guy doesn't have to get a divorce if he's not the dad and may still decide at some point to get one if he is. Divorce is a big decision while knowledge of a child's paternity is, as MIM said, something that should be automatic.

[merithyn]

It sounds to me like he was trying to get out of being a father, and therefore tried to divorce himself financially from the child. Nowhere in this do you mention that he wanted or fought for more time with the child, only that he fought to avoid paying for her.

There should be an equivalence to the laws though.  If the parent is required to support the child (regardless of parentage) they should have visitation rights (regardless of parentage).

Agreed. That's why I initially asked the question. I wanted to know if he would legally still have visitation rights to the child even if later they found out that he wasn't the biological father.

[Valmy]

Agreed. That's why I initially asked the question. I wanted to know if he would legally still have visitation rights to the child even if later they found out that he wasn't the biological father.

Are they going to stay married?  If this was Texas he will have full parental rights biology or no if they do.  It would only get weird if, you know, the other guy tries something.

[merithyn]

I think time might play a factor though in whether or not you'd want the child if you had to keep contact with someone you now hate*.

*So like child born on day 0, day 1 relationship with mother harmed irreparably and you know kid isn't biologically yours. Has enough time elapsed that you'd consider kid yours and fight to stay in contact?

I don't see biology as that important, so I just can't answer that. To me, whether the child is my blood or not, if I think of him/her as mine, he/she is mine, and therefore worth fighting over if need be. It seems that men - or at least many Languish men - feel differently.

I hear where you are comming from, but there must be more to it than a purely subjective test. I agree biology isn't determinative, but it must be based on something more than 'I have decided this child I have never seen and who is not related to me is mine'.

Well, when did you think of your child as yours? How long after she found out she was pregnant? Or did it take seeing him? Or was it when he first said your name?

For those without children, I can see how this can be sketchy, but for those with, I don't understand it.

[merithyn]

So again if Jerry had a bunch of babies with other women and just brought them home and said 'well you are the momma now' that would not be different at all than if they were yours?  Not even a little bit?

Because that is the situation where biology is important.  If I already know the kid and think of him/her as mine than yeah biology is not that important.

If Max had an affair that resulted in a child and he brought that child home to be loved and raised by us as a family, that child would be mine. I would accept it just as I accepted any of my other children, and if we split up, I would fight for the right to continue to be that child's mother.

The difference is that I would have to legally fight to make that child mine, whereas a man just has to be married to gain that right/responsibility.

[mongers]

A friend recently gave me two bits of information:

1) Her newly married son and his wife are five weeks pregant; and
2) They are in an open marriage, which the wife made use of about five or six weeks ago with her husband's best friend. (Which, oddly, coincides with their wedding date.)

Setting aside the moral issues regarding open marriages, how will this work regarding paternity if sometime down the road this marriage falls apart (and really, why would it?)?

What a train wreck in slow-mo.

The husband is clearly a victim, the wife due to insensitivity with his best friendly, seems entirely self-absorbed and so the marriage is doomed to fail. 

The one I feel sorry for is the poor child.

[merithyn]

Are they going to stay married?  If this was Texas he will have full parental rights biology or no if they do.  It would only get weird if, you know, the other guy tries something.

So far as I know, they're happily married and thrilled about the upcoming arrival.

[Valmy]

If Max had an affair that resulted in a child and he brought that child home to be loved and raised by us as a family, that child would be mine. I would accept it just as I accepted any of my other children, and if we split up, I would fight for the right to continue to be that child's mother.

Seriously?  Even though it was not your choice at all to have this baby and all your kids have almost left home and you would be starting over again at your age from a newborn it would be exactly the same than if you had decided this by your own free will?  That is a pretty big commitment that just got made for you.

Now I can see myself deciding to go ahead and do what you say you would do but I would want all the information available and I would have a choice to make.  Now I would, of course, have made that decision considerably sooner than the child's actual birth but I would still want to know.  It seems that makes me a terrible parent and a blight on society for some reason.

[Valmy]

Are they going to stay married?  If this was Texas he will have full parental rights biology or no if they do.  It would only get weird if, you know, the other guy tries something.

So far as I know, they're happily married and thrilled about the upcoming arrival.

Well then he would be golden if this was Texas.

[merithyn]

Seriously?  Even though it was not your choice at all to have this baby and all your kids have almost left home and you would be starting over again at your age from a newborn it would be exactly the same than if you had decided this by your own free will?

Yes, seriously. I'm on record as saying that I would have a dozen more kids if I could. Why does this surprise you?

Now I can see myself deciding to go ahead and do what you say you would do but I would want all the information available and I would have a choice to make.  It seems that makes me a terrible parent and a blight on society for some reason.

Where did anyone say that?

[Valmy]

Yes, seriously. I'm on record as saying that I would have a dozen more kids if I could. Why does this surprise you?

Ah I missed that.  May you have a dozen grandchildren then

Still that is your choice and that is awesome.  I would just want a choice and know the situation.

Where did anyone say that?

The only reason I jumped into this is because you lamented us Languish men for being a sad statement about society.  And then you said

For those without children, I can see how this can be sketchy, but for those with, I don't understand it.

So I was trying, obviously ineffectually, to try to get you to have a little compassion and understanding for where we are coming from and not be too disgusted.

[merithyn]

Yes, seriously. I'm on record as saying that I would have a dozen more kids if I could. Why does this surprise you?

I want to expand on this, because it's not really about my wanting more children or not. If Max brought a child home, I would fall in love with that child. It's not a question of if. Not because the child was Max's, but because it's a child that needs love. I'm equipped to give that love, so I would. And once given, I can't take it back. It doesn't work like that.

Once I accepted the child as "mine", it would be mine, end of story. No matter what happens down the line, no matter if the mother comes to ask for her, no matter if Max leaves me, no matter if the child decides at 15 that I'm not her "real mom", that child would be mine in my heart. That's just how it works for me.