Pope condemns sweatshops and unemployment in May Day message

[Caliga]

Mart: neither Tamas nor Yi are unemployed.

[Tamas]

Mart: neither Tamas nor Yi are unemployed.

yes, but we do not deal with the elite while we help them wish-wash their who knows what through the legal labyrinth

[Martinus]

Mart: neither Tamas nor Yi are unemployed.

They both were for a while.

[Martinus]

Tamas, the problem is that the decision to fire/hire someone (as most business decisions) is not binary - it's a matter of taking into account various factors that, when it comes to personal decision, in addition to the bottom line include a number of other factors, such as team morale, quality of life, work-life balance and so on, not to mention moral concerns. And that's just the question of good management, without taking into account more "philosophical" issues, such as good organization of the society and so on.

You and Yi are postulating a sort of soul-less bottom-line oriented decision making process which not only would be unethical - it also does not work in the long run, as you can't approach people the way one would approach strip mining.

[Tamas]

Mart: neither Tamas nor Yi are unemployed.

They both were for a while.

if you count school as not being unemployed, than I haven't been unemployed for a single day in my entire life.

[Tamas]

Tamas, the problem is that the decision to fire/hire someone (as most business decision) is not binary - it's a matter of taking into account various factors that, when it comes to personal decision, in addition to the bottom line include a number of other factors, such as team morale, quality of life, work-life balance and so on, not to mention moral concerns. And that's just the question of good management, without taking into account more "philosophical" issues, such as good organization of the society and so on.

You and Yi are postulating a sort of soul-less bottom-line oriented decision making process which not only would be unethical - it also does not work in the long run, as you can't approach people the way one would approach strip mining.

I know we have been going at it with Tyr for numerous posts, but if you look back, you will find a post of mine where I basically posted your first paragraph (just not as well worded). I did that to point out that Tyr is wrong to consider this issue (the issue of hiring a guy you don't actually need, just to give him a helping hand) a purely monetary affair

[Tamas]

Also, I of course readily admit, that when it comes to firing existing personnel, there should be other considerations than short term financial ones. I would not force those considerations legally, but any decent man would take the fate of his people into account.

But when it comes to hiring, which is in some way an investment, and with that a degree of risk for the business and everyone concerned by it, no charitable intentions should come into account.

[Ed Anger]

I would fire all of you. 

[Martinus]

Mart: neither Tamas nor Yi are unemployed.

They both were for a while.

if you count school as not being unemployed, than I haven't been unemployed for a single day in my entire life.

Ok. Fireblade has been going around for a while now claiming you have been fired. 

[Neil]

Ok. Fireblade has been going around for a while now claiming you have been fired. 

How many times have you been burned by taking what those guys say at face value?

[CountDeMoney]

Ok. Fireblade has been going around for a while now claiming you have been fired. 

How many times have you been burned by taking what those guys say at face value?

No kidding.  Who was it he said died in the hurricane back on EUOT?

[Razgovory]

A religious leader telling people what their obligations are? I'm sure that must come as a big shock to you.

I'm not all that shocked when religious leaders don't follow their own preaching either.

You mean, the guy who took a vow of poverty?

[Admiral Yi]

Being wealthy isn't really enough of a reason for giving people a job, that would be a bit silly, you have to actually be an employer in a position to do something too.

Why is that?  What's preventing the Vatican from using its money to start up a company and hire a bunch of people at a loss of $10 a person?

[Admiral Yi]

Well thats...not a ringing endorsement of doing good.
What if  your company was earning a million a year and you only lost $10 on account of having this extra person?
Considering you're a millionaire would you really balk at spending $10 to make a good guy (assume you wouldn't hire a dick) 's life significantly better? Maybe he has a family too. And this is charity you can actually see the effects of in your home country, not like throwing $10 a month at some far away good cause, if others followed the same thinking then the unemployment rate would drop and the country and your life would be better.

How many companies can you name that are owned by one guy?

[Admiral Yi]

You and Yi are postulating a sort of soul-less bottom-line oriented decision making process which not only would be unethical - it also does not work in the long run, as you can't approach people the way one would approach strip mining.

I am not.  I'm saying that if a sacrifice should be made for the common good it should be made by all of us and not just by "those guys over there."